Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FinalStarmen]

what's with the verbosity, starman

Perhaps I should tone down the superfluity of my words, in the very case I come off as pretentiously snobbish, which is not at all my intentions. I only intend to speak my words in such a way that it is uniquely my own. That said, I will take your concern into consideration.

 

[Gune]

I like this guy he sounds super smart.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Question guys.

We have talked about new characters and the possibly of them being included.
But how do you see certain newcomer characters implemented? How would they play in Smash 4 based on what we have seen. Not so much move sets but more so actual gameplay and match ups.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Just a general rule of thumb when it comes to characters, you've got to think with the mentality of archetypes. Underneath these face each character follows a certain style that is the most complimentary and follows a string of characteristic that creates a certain playstyle. It's one of those fundamental rules of designing a fighting game, in fact many designs from fighting games revolve around gameplay first and the design built around said gameplay second. Even within a crossover game like Super Smash Bros. that already has established characters, there is still that presence of finding the best gameplay style that compliments the character best.

 

[Glaciacott]

Question guys.

We have talked about new characters and the possibly of them being included.
But how do you see certain newcomer characters implemented? How would they play in Smash 4 based on what we have seen. Not so much move sets but more so actual gameplay and match ups.

Not sure what you mean?

I guess in match-ups of the newcomers we've seen, so far it's pretty balanced.
For example, I see Villager having a slight advantage over Mega Man, given how much Mega Man depends on projectiles and how the Villager can just steal them. That said, the Villager is the one I'm less clear on how he'll play given we really have no video of that ... Seems like he might not do so easily since I feel his strong attacks (the tree, bowling ball) seem to require proximity and that's something Mega Man can counter.
As for Wii Fit trainer, I think so far she's the most likely to be in higher tiers. She seems reasonably fast, tall and flexible allowing good reach for her attacks, good jump, and I get the impression she does have a projectile in the form of the volleyball spike. I could see her creating a lot of pressure with that thing and destroying on the approach.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

as he was requested by Kojima himself in due part to their friendly relationship. So technically speaking, it is not so much Snake's third-party status but rather his unusual request, which to me seems to be a one-time offer. Kojima would be asking for quite a considerable service for Snake to retain a "Veteran" status for Super Smash Brothers series.

lol that's what I said!

You know what should be a trophy
View attachment 2223

Better, yet! He should replace R.O.B.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can someone please tell the one who said Diddy and Dixie are pallet swaps that he's stupid? Thanks.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Can someone please tell the one who said Diddy and Dixie are pallet swaps that he's stupid? Thanks.

You're stupid, TheCreator! I love you.....

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't know, but people not really taking into account gameplay is kind of an odd thing in general. Gameplay is a key factor regardless of what is stated otherwise, if we didn't have that factor why would we even support a character? Where would the motivation go to?

 

[TheCreator]

I'm tired of this discussion, we obviously see things differently. I think you're arguing just to argue.
Dixie and Diddy can become one another with a wig and a change of clothes. The only other two characters that are this similar in the smash bros. series are the ice climbers. 3 most reoccurring KONGS yes they are. K. Rool is the main antagonist of pretty much every game in the series.

And my point to DK and Diddy being the stars of the show was that they are. Having dixie in the third place spot is like having Mario, Luigi, then Toad. When you can see bowser would go there?

Saying Dixie is more important than K. Rool.....is dumb. He is the main antagonist. She is a female version of diddy kong. And his sidekick. Again. She is a sidekick's sidekick. He is the main villain. More important. Which one?

I'm only trying to see if I'm making my point clear, you don't have to agree, but I'd like to know if you understand my reasoning?


Also FinalStarmans roster was alright. 6/10.

 

[Diddy Kong]

FinalStarman's roster is quite acceptable. Though, I'd take Roy or Lyn (or to make it believable... Chrom) over Robin. And I'd remove PacMan, add K.Rool and Isaac and find it already more than awesome. To make it the best roster ever I'd remove Sheik and Sonic to, and add Impa.

In the original DKCs for SNES, DK, Diddy and Dixie where all equally important. So that's no issue. Dixie isn't a 'sidekick's sidekick' as Diddy is mich more than just DK's sidekick. K.Rool should take priority however, but I feel both should be in. Dixie has distinct abilities to make her different from Diddy, so both should be separate.

 

[kingmario92]

Speaking of Roy

Aw Man, this f***ing design. Best design of the Awakening DLC characters

 

[Arcadenik]

Dixie Kong a palette swap of Diddy Kong? That's an ignorant thing to say.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's one of the worst assumptions ever actually...

 

[kingmario92]

It's one of the worst assumptions ever actually...

It's like saying King K. Rool is a palette swap of Bowser, it's REALLY stretching it

 

[TheCreator]

No it's not, Bowser and K. Rool are nothing alike as far as how they look. Dixie and Diddy look EXACTLY alike besides what their clothes and their hair.

Edit: Do they have a different color eyes? Because that'd make two things.

Edit again: They do, and Dixie doesn't have a tail. Didn't know that either.

They're extremely similar. That's all I've said. And that is true. Not that this holds any regard to if she makes it or not.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy has: a long tail suitable for attacking as seen in DK64, Peanut Popguns, Rocket Barrels, cartwheels, other abilities from DK64. Also the Popgun Barrage attack from DKC: Returns.

Dixie has: Helicopter hair spin, attacks by doing a hairspin opposed to cartwheeling, throws items and even Diddy around with her hair. Lacks the DK64 weaponary and abilities, so no Peanut Popguns or Rocket Barrel.

It's enough to diffrenciate them.

And I don't really see the alikeness in appearance. They aren't even the same actual species of monkey... This alone is evident in Diddy having a tail.

 

[TheCreator]

Diddy has: a long tail suitable for attacking as seen in DK64, Peanut Popguns, Rocket Barrels, cartwheels, other abilities from DK64. Also the Popgun Barrage attack from DKC: Returns.

Dixie has: Helicopter hair spin, attacks by doing a hairspin opposed to cartwheeling, throws items and even Diddy around with her hair. Lacks the DK64 weaponary and abilities, so no Peanut Popguns or Rocket Barrel.

It's enough to diffrenciate them.

And I don't really see the alikeness in appearance. They aren't even the same actual species of monkey... This alone is evident in Diddy having a tail.

I'm speaking solely appearance wise, I know she could have a differentish moveset.

You need glasses if you can't see the similarity. Besides their eyes, diddy having a tail, and the fact that they wear different clothes, they have a lot in common.

If you put Diddy's outfit on Dixie and vice versa, I bet it would take a minute for anybody to notice.

Anyways, this whole thing doesn't matter. Don't get all worked up about it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm tired of this discussion, we obviously see things differently. I think you're arguing just to argue.
Dixie and Diddy can become one another with a wig and a change of clothes. The only other two characters that are this similar in the smash bros. series are the ice climbers. 3 most reoccurring KONGS yes they are. K. Rool is the main antagonist of pretty much every game in the series.

And my point to DK and Diddy being the stars of the show was that they are. Having dixie in the third place spot is like having Mario, Luigi, then Toad. When you can see bowser would go there?

Saying Dixie is more important than K. Rool.....is dumb. He is the main antagonist. She is a female version of diddy kong. And his sidekick. Again. She is a sidekick's sidekick. He is the main villain. More important. Which one?

I'm only trying to see if I'm making my point clear, you don't have to agree, but I'd like to know if you understand my reasoning?


Also FinalStarmans roster was alright. 6/10.

Except Bowser is more recurring and important than Toad, nobody gets in JUST because they're a villian. Saying King K. Rool is more important than Dixie is what's dumb. It's simply not true and I've proven why. You can't declare somebody less important based on their similarities to another character (which by the way are not as big in number as you claim.) Bowser isn't more important than Luigi so he wouldn't get in for being more unique and a villian. I'm sorry if you see it that way, but I just have to say it's not true.

You also need to stop comparing them to the Ice Climbers and calling them pallete swaps. You clearly don't know what you're talking about there.

I understand where you are coming from, but I disagree entirely. Just because King K. Rool is an antagonist and not a Kong, it doesn't make him any more important to the series than Dixie. Both Smash & Donkey Kong History have already proven that.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm speaking solely appearance wise, I know she could have a differentish moveset.

You need glasses if you can't see the similarity. Besides their eyes, diddy having a tail, and the fact that they wear different clothes, they have a lot in common.

If you put Diddy's outfit on Dixie and vice versa, I bet it would take a minute for anybody to notice.

Anyways, this whole thing doesn't matter. Don't get all worked up about it.

If you put Mario's outfit on Luigi and vice versa, I bet it would take a minute for anybody to notice.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Hypothetical time.

Say Sakurai's sole criteria for deciding who gets into Smash Bros. is based on what type of playstyle the character would have. As long as they're possible to balance and unique from any character already in Smash Bros., they're fair game.

Who do we get and why?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Speaking of Roy
View attachment 2225
Aw Man, this f***ing design. Best design of the Awakening DLC characters

 

[Glaciacott]

Hypothetical time.

Say Sakurai's sole criteria for deciding who gets into Smash Bros. is based on what type of playstyle the character would have. As long as they're possible to balance and unique from any character already in Smash Bros., they're fair game.

Who do we get and why?

I thought that was pretty much his main criterion already?

And frankly, to me that would mean no more Kongs and no more sword-using FE lords.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And frankly, to me that would mean no more Kongs and no more sword-using FE lords.

Why?

 

[Arcadenik]

Dixie and Diddy can become one another with a wig and a change of clothes.

You are right. Peach and Luigi became one another when they swapped clothes in Super Mario Adventures and no one could tell the difference.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I thought that was pretty much his main criterion already?

And frankly, to me that would mean no more Kongs and no more sword-using FE lords.

It's one of his four criterion. I'm speaking as if gameplay is the sole factor here with the chosen character.

 

[Glaciacott]

It's one of his four criterion. I'm speaking as if gameplay is the sole factor here with the chosen character.

Ah, like if popularity and fan demand and all that didn't matter? Gotcha

Why?

Because going by the hypothetical concept of only gameplay and uniqueness and balance, I feel adding more monkeys and sword-wielding Fire Emblem lords would be considered less diverse than adding characters that outright feel different and are extremely likely to have different moves and play style.
I have no problem with Dixie and Chrom/Lucina, btw. I just feel that they wouldn't bring as much diversity as, say, K. Rool and Robin and that's really what the question was asking.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Not sure what you mean?

I guess in match-ups of the newcomers we've seen, so far it's pretty balanced.
For example, I see Villager having a slight advantage over Mega Man, given how much Mega Man depends on projectiles and how the Villager can just steal them. That said, the Villager is the one I'm less clear on how he'll play given we really have no video of that ... Seems like he might not do so easily since I feel his strong attacks (the tree, bowling ball) seem to require proximity and that's something Mega Man can counter.
As for Wii Fit trainer, I think so far she's the most likely to be in higher tiers. She seems reasonably fast, tall and flexible allowing good reach for her attacks, good jump, and I get the impression she does have a projectile in the form of the volleyball spike. I could see her creating a lot of pressure with that thing and destroying on the approach.

Sorry I should have clarified. But you basically got it right. I was wondering, based on what we've seen so far, how would both confirmed and unconfirmed newcomers be implemented in smash; game play, match ups, and stats. So just not the confirmed newcomers but unconfirmed as well.

I think we often talk about likeliness in this thread but don't really discuss actual newcomer gameplay and stats. That is touched upon mostly in the individual character threads.

 

[Glaciacott]

Sorry I should have clarified. But you basically got it right. I was wondering, based on what we've seen so far, how would both confirmed and unconfirmed newcomers be implemented in smash; game play, match ups, and stats. So just not the confirmed newcomers but unconfirmed as well.

I think we often talk about likeliness in this thread but don't really discuss actual newcomer gameplay and stats. That is touched upon mostly in the individual character threads.

Well, what do you think? Say, about the three confirmed ones and the ones you find most likely?

 

[Starcutter]

I think Ridley might be middle-low tier, unless they make his airgame REALLY GOOD, King K Rool would probably be high tier, if he indeed does have good projectiles. Little mac would probably be somewhere between marth and ike in playstyle, so... high middle tier? dunno. I'm trying too hard XD

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I don't think there's been that many top tier characters who have THAT GOOD of an good air game

...but I'm probably wrong.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I've been trying to write one up but my phone died. Plus I'm at work and technically shouldn't be on my phone...

I agree that WFT is a mid-to-high tier. She seems pretty quick and a mixture of ground/aerial abilities. However, I don't think she can deliver much knock back from her attacks. Mega Man seems very technical based on his abilities and movements -especially with his projectiles.

As for other possible newcomers;

Ridley would be fairly lanky with some of the reach and distant hit boxes. He was excel in the air but be extremely clumsy on the ground. In fact, I would say his aerial attacks would easily dominate his ground attacks. In fact, it might be best to make his ground attacks slightly aerial by causing him to hover slightly in the air to attack. He would have a longer, stronger jump with multiple jumps. However, he would be fairly technical in gameplay. That would make him, IMO, low mid tier to mid tier. I'll add more when I can.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Mega Man looks like you have to put a lot of thought in, honestly.

 

[Glaciacott]

I see Mega Man doing well mainly from the fact that Snake did so excellently with mostly projectiles and space control. And then that leaf shield seems like it could have interesting uses, like preventing grabs. Or other ideas like planting a crash bomb on the edge to set up a spike ... I could see him working well once the meta game is developed.

Villager is the one I really see as being technical. Setting up a tree or a bowling ball drop just seems like it's a lot of work. Like he requires distracting and trapping to work best, and if Smash4 does wind up being as fast as they make it seem, I could see Villager players having difficulty with the likes of Fox.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Oh, wait, I forgot who I'm talking to.

Well Sothe would be possible, at least as an AT

Not as much as the others though (but I would probably replace him with Sheeda, can't believe I forgot her)

Sothe, why not Anna

She was originally on my list too. And I also forgot Sheeda.

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As for the Pokemon reps, I have two questions:

1. If Gen 5 got a boss instead, who should it be? I say N with Reshiram and Zekrom in N's Castle.

2. If we got a Multi-Gen Trainer/Mega-Evolution Trainer (or a mix of both) who should it be?

If Mult-Gen I say Chikorita, Dewott, and Blaziken
If Mega-Evolution I say Lucario, Mewtwo, and Blaziken
If Mixed I say Blastoise, Meganium, and Blaziken

 

[Deleted member]

You never answer my calls, you never help me in my most dire situations, you've always brought stress to this relationship, hell you don't even make sandwiches! I feel as though our relationship is on thin ice, and we're going to sink any second now. I-I have to get out of this and find someone else before things get out of hand.

You never support me on my job as a sushi chef, you always bail when we need to meet my parents for lunch, you keep spending all the money I earn for us, and you won't let me install a pool in the back yard, yet somehow I'm the one that put our relationship on thin ice?

I've seen you staring at that JohnKnight fellow; don't think I haven't noticed. I know full well you are planning on ditching me for him, so cut the crap and just ADMIT IT!

(......why am I even continuing this? Lol.)

 

[shinhed-echi]

Ey, so what's the current topic?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

If we are doing Boss Ideas here is my list:

1. Master Hand
2. Crazy Hand
3. Demise
4. Koopa Kids
5. Hades
6. Arcanus
7. Mother Brain
8. Marx
9. N w/ Reshiram and Zekrom
10. Mr. Sandman
11. Metal Face
12. Deko
13. Andross
14. Grima
15. Captain Syrup
16. Dr. Wily
17. Dr. Eggman
18. Dracula
19. Kamek
20. Von Bolt

20 ideas, good for a Boss Rush mode

Thoughts?

 

[Zhadgon]

If we are doing Boss Ideas here is my list:

1. Master Hand
2. Crazy Hand
3. Demise
4. Koopa Kids
5. Hades
6. Arcanus
7. Mother Brain
8. Marx
9. N w/ Reshiram and Zekrom
10. Mr. Sandman
11. Metal Face
12. Deko
13. Andross
14. Grima
15. Captain Syrup
16. Dr. Wily
17. Dr. Eggman
18. Dracula
19. Kamek
20. Von Bolt

20 ideas, good for a Boss Rush mode

Thoughts?

Maybe add King Hippo there or would you consider him better to be an assist trophy?

.n_n.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I've seen you staring at that JohnKnight fellow; don't think I haven't noticed. I know full well you are planning on ditching me for him, so cut the crap and just ADMIT IT!

You kidding? John is such an egotistical murrican that I'd rather put my tongue in a wood chipper.

thirdkoopa on the other hand...