Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[CalumG]

Hello, friends! What are we talking about today?

Can I just start off by saying that if Toon Link get's cut it's not gonna be to add a new Zelda Character.

Tingle.

 

[Curious Villager]

The only Zelda character I can realistically see replacing Toon Link is a different younger Link, but I already went on about that.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm not sure if Sakarai still feels the same way about a younger Link as he used to. Last time he said it felt important to have him was in Melee, he could have changed his mind about that, especially seeing how things are going with the Villager.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Tingle.

Like I said, it's highly unlikely Tingle is going to be the reason Toon Link gets removed.

I'm not sure what leads people to think Toon Link will be removed in the first place. I know everyone is like "hurr! Toon Link is on the train!" but here is the thing. Sakurai hates cutting characters and clearly thinks having a second Link is important. There is no way he'd cut a character before the game is even close to being finished and he doesn't even know if cuts have to be made or not.

I'm not sure if Sakarai still feels the same way about a younger Link as he used to. Last time he said it felt important to have him was in Melee, he could have changed his mind about that, especially seeing how things are going with the Villager.

Nothing leads me to believe his mind has changed.

 

[CalumG]

I'm not sure what leads people to think Toon Link will be removed in the first place. I know everyone is like "hurr! Toon Link is on the train!" but here is the thing. Sakurai hates cutting characters and clearly thinks having a second Link is important. There is no way he'd cut a character before the game is even close to being finished and he doesn't even know if cuts have to be made or not.

Presumably, the fact that there will be cuts. The Spirit Tracks train only solidified things in peoples minds, but Toon Link is a character that could be cut and leave the fewest people disappointed. You cut Ike, and Ike isn't in the game anymore. You cut Snake, Snake isn't in the game anymore. You cut Toon Link? Link is still in the game for Zelda fans. Sakurai hates cuts, but to be honest I don't think he considers Toon Link as important as we think he does. To quote Neon from earlier in this thread:

The statements he gives are often half-truths at best, he'd never show his whole hand. Developers rarely do.

I know this was used as a defense for Toon Link, but it can equally be used as a defense against him. Sakurai has said in the past that he considers the presence of two Links in the roster to be important. But is that really the case? I'd say it's far more likely that Sakurai uses that statement as justification for the fact that including two Links is an easy and economic thing to do, rather than an important and iconic one.

Of course, that means Toon Link could very well return. Toon Link is a very easy to implement character based on his major similarities to Link, so I don't doubt that he's on the same kind of level as Jigglypuff - easy to implement but low on the list of priorities. So yeah, Toon Link could make it in easily. In fact, I think he has decent chances of making it, but not because he's "important" or because Sakurai "hates cuts", but because he's simply an easy choice to bulk out the roster. That's all Young Link in Smash is, and all he'll ever be.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm not sure if Sakarai still feels the same way about a younger Link as he used to. Last time he said it felt important to have him was in Melee, he could have changed his mind about that, especially seeing how things are going with the Villager.

While that certainly isn't outside of the realm of possibility. We can't exactly tell this until the game is out and we know the full roster now can we? Just because he changed his mind on one thing doesn't necessarily mean he changed his mind on everything. Besides we still got a younger Link in Brawl.

This is one of those things we just need to wait it out and see I guess.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

THE MILLENNIUM BATTLE CONTINUES!

For those of you eager to stay up to date with the battle between me & KingMario92 here's an update. Previously in our battle, KingMario92 blew my balls off with a crash bomb, but now I made a comeback with his own Shuriken! So far it's a tie now...

The Current Score

SaturnGamer 64: 1
KingMario92: 1

Presumably, the fact that there will be cuts. The Spirit Tracks train only solidified things in peoples minds, but Toon Link is a character that could be cut and leave the fewest people disappointed. You cut Ike, and Ike isn't in the game anymore. You cut Snake, Snake isn't in the game anymore. You cut Toon Link? Link is still in the game for Zelda fans. Sakurai hates cuts, but to be honest I don't think he considers Toon Link as important as we think he does. To quote Neon from earlier in this thread:

Cuts were never guaranteed, he stated it was a possibility. And if you cut Toon Link and keep Link, you still don't have Toon Link. (Not sure what your logic is suppose to be...)

 

[CalumG]

Cuts were never guaranteed, he stated it was a possibility.

We don’t have the time to fully recreate every single character who’s been in Smash Bros at this point. Adding new characters is not a simple addition — it’s really multiplication. The amount of work, adding a character is multiplied and becomes bigger and bigger as you go. We can’t because of the amount of work it takes.

Now granted, the wording of the phrases "every single character who's been in Smash Bros." kind of belittles the sentiment because he could simply be referring to Melee cuts not coming back. However, this is a fighting game. Cuts are guaranteed. Heck, maybe it's only 1 or even 2 characters who get the cut, but to think there won't be cuts just seems naive.

Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but cuts are pretty much definitely happening. I'll happily eat my words if I'm wrong, but there hasn't been a fighting series out there that doesn't either remove old characters to make way for new ones, or keep adding new ones and not removing old ones (thus bloating the roster) at the expense of roster balance.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Cuts are guaranteed.

Says you.

there hasn't been a fighting series out there that doesn't either remove old characters to make way for new ones, or keep adding new ones and not removing old ones (thus bloating the roster) at the expense of roster balance.

Except for 2 Smash titles

My point is that if cuts ARE happenng, the removal of Toon Link would be entirely pointless f for a new Zelda character because nobody in the series is more important than him. It'd be to make room for characters from other franchises.

 

[CalumG]

Except for 2 Smash titles

Okay, I'll correct myself. Long-running fighting series. Using the first Smash Bros. game as proof doesn't make sense because there wasn't one before to cut characters from, and Melee didn't have the issue every subsequent Smash Bros. will have because it only had 12 original characters to recreate - hardly a mammoth task.

 

[N3ON]

Smash has never followed the typical fighter archetype. Even though they might share some elements using other fighters as a guideline for Smash isn't the best idea.

That said, while cuts are probably pretty likely to some extent, I wouldn't say they're guaranteed.

 

[Gormanbros]

I do think Toon Link will return, personally.

 

[CalumG]

My point is that if cuts ARE happenng, the removal of Toon Link would be entirely pointless f for a new Zelda character because nobody in the series is more important than him. It'd be to make room for characters from other franchises.

You're right. Link is the most important character in Zelda. Which is why we have Link. Toon Link is Link. Link is Toon Link. They may be different visually and even on the timeline, but they all represent the hero just the same. Again, I'm not saying Toon Link will be removed - I'm not even saying he should be removed - but to call him more important than other characters is a bit iffy because the role of representing the hero can easily be done by the one Link. Removing Toon Link and adding, say, Tingle (just as an example, don't go picking apart Tingle's negative points) wouldn't be removing a character for a less important one - it'd be consolidating Link's representation into a single spot. Link is still there. Toon Link is Link.

 

[Curious Villager]

It is kinda sad how Toon Link is always at the very top in many people's cutting lists since he was my most wanted character and I'd rather not have another Mewtwo happening on me but oh well then. Whatever happens, happens I guess.

If he does end up getting cut after all then at least I will have a reason to go back and replay Brawl whenever I want and kick some butt as him. It's not like he's going to get removed from Brawl as well. It's a good thing Animal Crossing New Leaf warmed me up to Villager so I'm planning to main him once I get my hands on Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS (unless Mewtwo or Toon Link end up returning after all or any of my more wanted newcomers join the fray).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Smash has never followed the typical fighter archetype. Even though they might share some elements using other fighters as a guideline for Smash isn't the best idea.

Super Smash Bros. already does follow the rules of fighting games. There is a similar goal of trying to beat your opponent in a confined area with restrictions, characters follow individual gameplay styles that needs practice in order to master on high level play, a selection of commands like standard attacks, dodges, blocks, and special attacks, and having set rules conformed around the fighting.

 

[N3ON]

Super Smash Bros. already does follow the rules of fighting games. There is a similar goal of trying to beat your opponent in a confined area with restrictions, characters follow individual gameplay styles that needs practice in order to master on high level play, a selection of commands like standard attacks, dodges, blocks, and special attacks, and having set rules conformed around the fighting.

And if you'd care to list the differences you'd see how far it varies from most other fighters (before all the imitators started... and not counting Outfoxies I guess).

I never said it wasn't a fighter, I said it's different from the typical archetype... which it it. Having similarities doesn't mean there aren't differences.

 

[Curious Villager]

To move this thread along if no one has anything to add. Shall we discuss the Donkey Kong series now? :/

 

[SuperBrawler]

To move this thread along if no one has anything to add. Shall we discuss the Donkey Kong series now? :/

King K. Rool. The End.

 

[Curious Villager]

Lol yeah K. Rool should definitely be playable.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lanky Kong as well actually.... :x

 

[FlareHabanero]

Shall we discuss the Donkey Kong series now? :/

K. Rool is green.

/topic

 

[N3ON]

To move this thread along if no one has anything to add. Shall we discuss the Donkey Kong series now? :/

If it got one new rep, I'd give the edge to K. Rool. But with Dixie's history of being planned for Smash and having another playable role in a current game, I could also see her getting the spot.

Though DK could very well end up with two, the series is big enough, the candidates are popular and important enough, it's a real possibility in my mind. And in that case, personally I'd predict Dixie would be a starter and K. Rool would be unlockable. Though as long as we got them, their status wouldn't really matter as much.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

THE MILLENNIUM BATTLE CONTINUES!

For those of you eager to stay up to date with the battle between me & KingMario92 here's an update. Previously in our battle, KingMario92 blew my balls off with a crash bomb, but now I made a comeback with his own Shuriken! So far it's a tie now...
View attachment 2253
The Current Score

SaturnGamer 64: 1
KingMario92: 1

... But then, Mario (KingShadow ) came and kicked SaturnGamer's butt!!

SaturnGamer: 1
KingMario: 1
KingShadow: 1

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah the two characters who definitely got the chance to make it in are indeed King. K. Rool and Dixie Kong. It's a shame K. Rool hasn't been appearing much lately in the DK series but I'm pretty sure that won't stop him from making it into the Super Smash Bros series.

 

[SuperBrawler]

... But then, Mario (KingShadow ) came and kicked SaturnGamer's butt!!
View attachment 2256
SaturnGamer: 1
KingMario: 1
KingShadow: 1

Then I came in, Falcon Punched everyone, (even though Captain Falcon isn't my main) and won, this battles over.
SaturnGamer:1
KingMario:1
KingShadow:1
ME: OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!

 

[Depressed Gengar]

To move this thread along if no one has anything to add. Shall we discuss the Donkey Kong series now? :/

End of discussion.

 

[Curious Villager]

Welp, guess that was a very one sided discussion. Alright then, guess there is always Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Mario? :T

 

[SuperBrawler]

I really hope the Roster Maker gets an IOS app...

But it's unlikely, because Jakor said that its unlikely.

Also, Kikwi Kiwi, ^^ TOAD, end of discussion.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Alright then, guess there is always Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Mario? :T

Mario has a mustache.

/topic.

 

[Curious Villager]

Mario has a mustache.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Welp, guess that was a too one sided discussion. Alright then, guess there is always Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Mario? :T

Toad, the end again.

 

[N3ON]

Toad. Then Paper Mario or Bowser Jr. Then nobody. Then Waluigi. Then any other Mario character. Then Baby Daisy. Then Baby Daisy In Her Sports Outfit.

Mario has a mustache.

/topic.

Wrong. Luigi is the one with the mustache. Mario has overalls.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Welp, guess that was a too one sided discussion. Alright then, guess there is always Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Mario? :T

End of topic.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Baby Daisy In Her Sports Outfit.

 

[SuperBrawler]

View attachment 2258
End of topic.

Errr, excuse me? I already ended it with Toad.

 

[shinhed-echi]

MARIO:
Toad > Bowser Jr. > Daisy > Waluigi > Pauline > Dr. Mario > Any other Mario duplicate > Generic Mario enemies

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Errr, excuse me? I already ended it with Toad.

 

[CalumG]

Toad > Paper Mario > Bowser Jr. > All others are irrelevant (Waluigi go home)

 

[Swift Fox]

How come Toad > Bowser Jr.?

 

[Curious Villager]

Yay I got the topic going a little now, now for my input.

Toad > Paper Mario = Bowser Jr >>> Waluigi >>> everyone else.

 

[CalumG]

How come Toad > Bowser Jr.?

Toad is more long-running, has been playable in 3 and soon to be 4 main series Mario games (games by Nintendo EAD, that is), is more recognizable to the everyman, isn't a Tiny Toons version of another character, is the only character from Mario 1 that isn't playable (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Toad), only playable from Mario 2 that isn't playable (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad), has had his own spin-off in Wario's Woods and to my knowledge hasn't been absent from a Mario game since Super Mario World(?).

Take your pick.