Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheDivineDeity]

Are you really serious right now...you need a source that Sonic is more popular than Lloyd and Pac-Man as Smash characters...

Everybody asks me for a source... it's high time I ask everybody for theirs.

 

[Opossum]

If you honestly think that Lloyd would fit perfectly fine among the likes of Sonic, Snake and Mega Man and match their iconic-ness, something is definitely wrong. Lloyd is, frankly, a nobody compared to those three.


@Divine. It would be different if you weren't asking for a source for common knowledge.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Lloyd and Pacman's chance are actually higher than you say it is. Both have warranted a placement on their roster for a variety of reasons, but most importantly it's because the relationship with Namco makes the transition easier. And no.. just because Sakurai said Namco isn't getting special treatment... it doesn't mean Namco isn't allowed any characters. THAT baffling lack of logic is actually how everybody except me and a few others interpret the statement.

I never said Pac-Mans chances are low. And I also DID NOT say that because Sakurai said Namco isnt special treatment it means we wont get any Namco reps. We will be getting one Rep from each company. The most POPULAR. pacman is the next Rep, that's it. End of discussion.

And you're advocating that because they are working on the game, it'll be easier to ft more Namco characters in. So you're giving them special treatment.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

I absolutely love how it's even possible for someone to come in here, judge a roster with incredibly weak biased statements, and then get into arguments over and over again until he realizes he's in too deep then runs away. It's times like this that make me both love and hate this thread at the same time.



I'm telling you man, the usage of Top tiers is getting to his head.

I don't believe in tiers, because personally I truly believe anybody can play any character and use them competitively... wait, WHAT does this have to do with anything I said earlier, Hotfeet444? I never even MENTIONED tiers.

 

[TumblrFamous]

If there's one thing Divine has displayed over the last two days is that he's a stickler for scientific process with his equations and sources. Unfortunately in his lust for empiricism he has also displayed a complete lack of any semblance of common sense.

Hey. Those words are ttoo big and confusing. No one eever uses those words in real life.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, amidst all the Sonic vs. Lloyd jargon, let me answer. Persoanlly (completely my opinion), I'm getting tired of the same stuff being developed by Nintendo over and over again. 3 or 4 New sMB games, really? That's why I love it when a character that is considered "Retro" is brought into smash, or gets a revival, I get excited. Like Nintendo is trying something new. Which iss why I was so excited for KI:U and Punch Out!!! I get tired of more and more games like Mario where they're right now in a rut with the main platformers. So when Retro characters get a revival, I'm so excited that there might be something actually "new".

This is just me though.

Nah, it's not just you. As much as I do like Nintendo, even I will freely admit that the company does rely on Mario too much. I guess it could be contributed to the flimsy economy and developers are afraid to experiment with new ideas in fear of the product not reaching numbers. In retrospect, it's kind of why I find Xenoblade Chronicles to be such a fresh breath, along with any other IPs that get made along the way. You could say it's a diversity mentality going on, which is one of the reasons I love Super Smash Bros. is because it's a factor that is being encouraged.

 

[3Bismyname]

I've said this before but there's only, in my eyes, five classic video-game characters that almost every single non-gamer has heard of, Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Sonic and Pac-Man. Those five in one game would be the quintessential classic video game fighter.

u know its sad that about a year ago i would say Megaman would be in that grouping. then i worked in a retro game store and no one under 15 knew what i was talking about when i mentioned him... i lost faith in humanity those days.

 

[Glaciacott]

It really baffles me that people keep biting the troll bait.
It almost feels like people actually like it when DD is here since every time he posts everyone just jumps at his throat, like it's a sport.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

You are trying to argue that a character Sakurai has included before has never reached Sakurai's standards of inclusion. I can only assume you're trolling at this point because the alternative is just too sad.

What i said was Impa is a better choice for Sheik now because the opportunity has been opened. It hasn't happened before with Brawl because TP didn't introduce much new concepts to Zelda. But with Impa in SS, it changes everything. Honestly, I expected more respect from you, instead of constantly mocking me and my choices. I'm NOT the only one who thinks these ideas, and I'm NOT even the first OR last to do so. These ideas have ALREADY been expressed before in the forums...

 

[zauberdragon]

u know its sad that about a year ago i would say Megaman would be in that grouping. then i worked in a retro game store and no one under 15 knew what i was talking about when i mentioned him... i lost faith in humanity those days.

Yeah it's a huge shame. If only Capcom treated the guy with a little bit of respect

No matter, at least he's in Smash and that, well that feels good. If only Capcom treated the Blue Bomber half as well Sakurai has.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

It really baffles me that people keep biting the troll bait.
It almost feels like people actually like it when DD is here since every time he posts everyone just jumps at his throat, like it's a sport.

Exactly... people attack me for ANYTHING...

 

[TumblrFamous]

What i said was Impa is a better choice for Sheik now because the opportunity has been opened. It hasn't happened before with Brawl because TP didn't introduce much new concepts to Zelda. But with Impa in SS, it changes everything. Honestly, I expected more respect from you, instead of constantly mocking me and my choices. I'm NOT the only one who thinks these ideas, and I'm NOT even the first OR last to do so. These ideas have ALREADY been expressed before in the forums...

Don't quote me on this, but I'm fairly 100% certain she was talking about Toon Zelda and Tetra.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Mega Man's legacy. Sonic's legacy. Pac-Man's legacy. Snake's legacy. Lloyd's legacy. Of the five of these characters, Lloyd was the only one without his own Wikipedia page and the section about his reception is quite smaller than the other four.

I'm not against Lloyd by any means, but I think the fact simply is that he doesn't hold a candle to any of the others.

Does providing actual sources help end this arguing any sooner?

 

[TumblrFamous]

Mega Man's legacy. Sonic's legacy. Pac-Man's legacy. Snake's legacy. Lloyd's legacy. Of the five of these characters, Lloyd was the only one without his own Wikipedia page and the section about his reception is quite smaller than the other three.

I'm not against Lloyd by any means, but I think the fact simply is that he doesn't hold a candle to any of the others.

Does providing actual sources help end this arguing any sooner?

No, Wikipedia is not a valid source. Did you even take English in high school?

 

[kingmario92]

Hey guys! I'm back and I... well, looks like another argument. Uhhhhh...........well looks like I'm going back outside.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

You are trying to argue that a character Sakurai has included before has never reached Sakurai's standards of inclusion. I can only assume you're trolling at this point because the alternative is just too sad.

And yet... Toon Zelda DIDN'T get in. What does that mean, exactly... it means that Sakurai felt she wasn't worth the trouble of putting into the roster!

 

[FlareHabanero]

It really baffles me that people keep biting the troll bait.

People are just naive. It's like encountering a hornet nest, you can either ignore it or start messing around with it and then regret your decision.

 

[CalumG]

And yet... Toon Zelda DIDN'T get in. What does that mean, exactly... it means that Sakurai felt she wasn't worth the trouble of putting into the roster!

Or, you know, he only had a certain amount of development time and had to make compromises. -.-

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

And yet... Toon Zelda DIDN'T get in. What does that mean, exactly... it means that Sakurai felt she wasn't worth the trouble of putting into the roster!

It's called prioritizing.

----

 

[Hotfeet444]

I don't believe in tiers, because personally I truly believe anybody can play any character and use them competitively... wait, WHAT does this have to do with anything I said earlier, Hotfeet444? I never even MENTIONED tiers.

Nothing, but of course, that doesn't make you any less unintelligent.

It really baffles me that people keep biting the troll bait.
It almost feels like people actually like it when DD is here since every time he posts everyone just jumps at his throat, like it's a sport.

We do it because it's not only fun, but there's practically nothing going on. He's practically the SNL of this thread.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Mega Man's legacy. Sonic's legacy. Pac-Man's legacy. Snake's legacy. Lloyd's legacy. Of the five of these characters, Lloyd was the only one without his own Wikipedia page and the section about his reception is quite smaller than the other four.

I'm not against Lloyd by any means, but I think the fact simply is that he doesn't hold a candle to any of the others.

Does providing actual sources help end this arguing any sooner?

Other than the fact that the uncredible and unreliable Wikipedia is a HORRIBLE source to cite... I agree that Lloyd isn't even comparable to the other legacy characters like Pacman and especially Sonic. But that doesn't stop him from being wildly predicted to be on the roster by pretty much EVERYBODY... If Lloyd gets in over Sonic (which MIGHT happen... I predict a 70/30 chance...) then it's because of issues not relating to popularity but rather 3rd party IP. Namco would be MUCH easier to work with than Sega with Sonic, because Namco is actually working on the project.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm just going to post this because it's already made. I am aware nothing I say will convince wiggles the troll and that he will just continue to do this. So after this I might as well just ignore him. But, I'll state the obvious anyway.

trolololololololol

I'm going to start off by saying, since you've decided to call me by my full name for absolutely no reason, I'm just going to start calling you "Wiggles" for no reason. Besides it fits well with your reputation of being a complete joke.

For starters, Wiggles you stated every reason why Starfy is a very likely newcomer and then proceeded to claim it's not enough. I can assure you there is NO WAY IN HELL SAKI WOULD GET IN OVER STARFY! And that Starfy can co-exist with the other newcomers. Starfy works as an assist trophy just like Issac, Saki, Little Mac, and Waluigi so saying he works better as an assist trophy works for EVERY character because he has just as much move set potential as all of them. Then you proceed to laugh at the suggestion of Eevee when plenty of people acknowledge her likeliness not completely out of the question. Then you suggest her as an assist trophy instead of a Pokeball. So think before you speak, Wiggles as you **** on some of the most likely contenders before everybody explains to you why they work.

What i said was Impa is a better choice for Sheik now because the opportunity has been opened. It hasn't happened before with Brawl because TP didn't introduce much new concepts to Zelda. But with Impa in SS, it changes everything. Honestly, I expected more respect from you, instead of constantly mocking me and my choices. I'm NOT the only one who thinks these ideas, and I'm NOT even the first OR last to do so. These ideas have ALREADY been expressed before in the forums...

But, your posting your IDEAS in the PREDICTION thread. That's the problem, Wiggles.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

People are just naive. It's like encountering a hornet nest, you can either ignore it or start messing around with it and then regret your decision.

Habanero... I simply disagree with your assessment of myself. I'll leave it at that.

 

[CalumG]

 

[Opossum]

Says the troll master who constantly goes out of his way to provoke anybody who doesn't agree with opinions... Habanero, you have NO RIGHT to tell others that they are a 'hornet's nest'.

He didn't just...oh, you just made a mistake...

 

[kingmario92]

I'm going to start off by saying, since you've decided to call me by my full name for absolutely no reason, I'm just going to start calling you "Wiggles" for no reason. Besides it fits well with your reputation of being a complete joke..

Is that a Futurama reference?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Other than the fact that the uncredible and unreliable Wikipedia is a HORRIBLE source to cite... I agree that Lloyd isn't even comparable to the other legacy characters like Pacman and especially Sonic. But that doesn't stop him from being wildly predicted to be on the roster by pretty much EVERYBODY... If Lloyd gets in over Sonic (which MIGHT happen... I predict a 70/30 chance...) then it's because of issues not relating to popularity but rather 3rd party IP. Namco would be MUCH easier to work with than Sega with Sonic, because Namco is actually working on the project.

Nothing puts Lloyd over Sonic and nothing ever will, wiggles. Even Bomberman would get in over Lloyd. Lloyd is just a request character, he doesn't have anything going for him besides being Namco, and Namco characters don't get special treatment for being in the game. Which means you have to pick someone who's already iconic like Pac-Man

 

[zauberdragon]

The real question is how have we gone 3-4 pages of this without the GameGrumps 'off the rails' video? I don't not whether to be impressed or ashamed.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Other than the fact that the uncredible and unreliable Wikipedia is a HORRIBLE source to cite... I agree that Lloyd isn't even comparable to the other legacy characters like Pacman and especially Sonic. But that doesn't stop him from being wildly predicted to be on the roster by pretty much EVERYBODY... If Lloyd gets in over Sonic (which MIGHT happen... I predict a 70/30 chance...) then it's because of issues not relating to popularity but rather 3rd party IP. Namco would be MUCH easier to work with than Sega with Sonic, because Namco is actually working on the project... wait a minute, that IS special treatment. I just had a complete turnaround.

Fixed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Is that a Futurama reference?

 

[TumblrFamous]

He didn't just...oh, you just made a mistake...

Oh, dis gonna be good!

 

[Opossum]

Other than the fact that the uncredible and unreliable Wikipedia is a HORRIBLE source to cite... I agree that Lloyd isn't even comparable to the other legacy characters like Pacman and especially Sonic. But that doesn't stop him from being wildly predicted to be on the roster by pretty much EVERYBODY... If Lloyd gets in over Sonic (which MIGHT happen... I predict a 70/30 chance...) then it's because of issues not relating to popularity but rather 3rd party IP. Namco would be MUCH easier to work with than Sega with Sonic, because Namco is actually working on the project.

And that's another thing. Those Wikipedia articles cited sources, making them credible. Please, tell me you're trolling and aren't actually that ignorant...

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Fixed.

No... it's just easier to deal with.

 

[N3ON]

What i said was Impa is a better choice for Sheik now because the opportunity has been opened. It hasn't happened before with Brawl because TP didn't introduce much new concepts to Zelda. But with Impa in SS, it changes everything. Honestly, I expected more respect from you, instead of constantly mocking me and my choices. I'm NOT the only one who thinks these ideas, and I'm NOT even the first OR last to do so. These ideas have ALREADY been expressed before in the forums...

I wasn't even talking about Impa or Sheik, I was talking about Toon Zelda. At least be sure of what you're taking offence at before you take offence. And as other people have said, her even being partially programmed means Sakurai thought she merited inclusion. Otherwise he... wouldn't have included her.
Also, just because ideas have been presented before, doesn't make them good ideas.

And no, someone who acts like they are above it all with absolutely no cause to do so and has very bigoted views does not have much of my respect.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

And that's another thing. Those Wikipedia articles cited sources, making them credible. Please, tell me you're trolling and aren't actually that ignorant...

I personally don't like Wikipedia being used as a credible source... it can be edited by anybody at anytime, and anything can be cited as a source, even blogs and websites. That's not how encyclopedias work.

The real question is how have we gone 3-4 pages of this without the GameGrumps 'off the rails' video? I don't not whether to be impressed or ashamed.

Ashamed... it's overused.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Just because a character missed a chance in one game... it doesn't mean they will miss another chance in another game. By your logic, Megaman would have NEVER been in SSB4...

Thing is... Megaman and Vaati are two extremes. One is extremely popular, requested since SSB64, and has an historical connection to Nintendo whereas the second has marginal support and popularity with requests dating back pre-Brawl and only pre-Brawl. Yet, these requests were lukewarm at best.

I'll let you guess which ones are which - if you can.

Bottom line is this, and this is the truth - Vaati has popularity AND importance to the Zelda universe,

That is a fairly exaggerated remark. Vaati is a part of a spin-off franchise and has appeared several titles. I've been here since pre-Brawl but I have yet to see a significant support for Vaati that comes even close to the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Waluigi, Palutena, Isaac, Shulk, etc. [/quote]

Vaati has 94 votes in Shorties poll. While characters such as Saki, Dark Samus, and Chrom are slightly higher. Hell, Ghirahim has over 200...a contender for a LoZ roster spot. While these numbers do not reflect Sakurai's personal feelings; it does reflect a significant percentage of Smash fans and their opinions.

Oh, well since it does fit your perfect and unbiased mathematically advanced equation. Though i argue your using Vaati as a biased example to authenticate both your equation and Vaati does more harm than good.

AND also has all four factors of the ABCD equation I made (uniqueness, moveset potential, roster balance, deservedness), AND not to mention being awesome.

Deservedness is not a word.

Whereas ToonZelda/Tetra not only fail the standards of the equation (D) Deservedness) but also one may ask what the Toon Universe has warranted getting extra-represention and over-exposure?

Again, a flawed, biased statement that tries to use flawed logical to argue itself. Hey guys, look at my equation! I made an equation! It's so cool and shiny!

You remind me of a little kid who gets a new toy on Christmas but, when he shows it to the school yard kids, they just laugh at him and walk away.

Vaati would not only be a more popular choice among fans, but also do the game more justice.

You know, I'd welcome Vaati. He is an interesting character. However, is he likely? I would say no. The Toon series is very unlikely to get another rep. Toon Link has a decent chance of being out up on the chopping block. If Toon Link is in trouble, so is Toon Zelda, Tetra, Toon Ganon, Vaati, and another toon character.

Crap, I hate multi-quoting on iPhones....

 

[MargnetMan23]

Ooh I want to make a clever post that will gives me some likes!
Ummmmmmmm
Ooh look we're arguing with Divine Diety

 

[TumblrFamous]

Thing is... Megaman and Vaati are two extremes. One is extremely popular, requested since SSB64, and has an historical connection to Nintendo whereas the second has marginal support and popularity with requests dating back pre-Brawl and only pre-Brawl. Yet, these requests were lukewarm at best.

I'll let you guess which ones are which - if you can.



That is a fairly exaggerated remark. Vaati is a part of a spin-off franchise and has appeared several titles. I've been here since pre-Brawl but I have yet to see a significant support for Vaati that comes even close to the likes of Ridley, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Waluigi, Palutena, Isaac, Shulk, etc.

Vaati has 94 votes in Shorties poll. While characters such as Saki, Dark Samus, and Chrom are slightly higher. Hell, Ghirahim has over 200...a contender for a LoZ roster spot. While these numbers do not reflect Sakurai's personal feelings; it does reflect a significant percentage of Smash fans and their opinions.

You know, I'd welcome Vaati. He is an interesting character. However, is he likely? I would say no. The Toon series is very unlikely to get another rep. Toon Link has a decent chance of being out up on the chopping block. If Toon Link is in trouble, so is Toon Zelda, Tetra, Toon Ganon, Vaati, and another toon character.

Crap, I hate multi-quoting on iPhones....

Tell me about it. Anyway, yes to all you said. There's a reason you all became moderators.

 

[Opossum]

I personally don't like Wikipedia being used as a credible source... it can be edited by anybody at anytime, and anything can be cited as a source, even blogs and websites. That's not how encyclopedias work.



Ashamed... it's overused.

That's the thing, though. The sources used in the articles are credible. By you brushing them off without a second thought, it makes you look extremely, and willingly, ignorant.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Nothing puts Lloyd over Sonic and nothing ever will, wiggles. Even Bomberman would get in over Lloyd. Lloyd is just a request character, he doesn't have anything going for him besides being Namco, and Namco characters don't get special treatment for being in the game. Which means you have to pick someone who's already iconic like Pac-Man

Name-calling, Noah JesusChristAlmightyGod Linderer..... it's pretty low, if I may say so, myself, but then again, it's you acting like your better than everybody else, AGAIN. Anyways... first off, enough with Bomberman. If lloyd is going to have trouble getting in the game, so will Bomberman ESPECIALLY... we all know Pacman has the greatest chances of representation from Namco. Secondly, I didn't say Namco would get special treatment, I said it would be easier for Nintendo to use their IPs instead of Sega and especially Konami. God...