Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Khoru]

trainwreck video on standby.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So... what's going on here?

Me having a statement regarding to bringing back old characters and why people like it, while everyone is ****ting all over Divine.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

...Someone else tear this apart, I'm too busy fighting Nightmare in Metroid Fusion.

You know... if you are even going to justify any choices for your roster, at least defend it with actual logical conclusions, and not just bias for your favorite characters from other games.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Basically yesterday 2.0. Divine vs Noah while we get the popcorn out.

Oh. I just had dinner, I'm a little full.

Deity? May I talk about the Impa/Sheik thing?

I think Impa has a decent shot in the game. She could be a last-minute semi-clone of Sheik, or better yet, her own unique character. However, I highly doubt she'll replace Sheik. Not only does the 3DS remake make Sheik relevant again, but Sheik is Zelda. That's why it works between them. If Impa is Zeldas new Down B, shell be part of her moveset, which basically makes them incomplete characters. Since Sheik and Zelda are the same, they complete each other as a character. Impa and Zelda should be their own characters.

 

[Hotfeet444]

You know... if you are even going to justify any choices for your roster, at least defend it with actual logical conclusions, and not just bias for your favorite characters from other games.

You make it sound as if you're even worth the time. And bias of my favorite characters from other games? What are you smoking and where can I get it? If I was bias about my favorite characters, I'd have Paper Mario, Demise, Zoroark and Nowi on my roster.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

People have told you why it's flawed at least four times already...you're using values that are by no means quantitative, and could easily vary according to other people's opinions. It's heavily flawed and by no means a be-all end-all.

Define quantitative, then. By my definitions, I mean an "indefinite amount or number", or at least variables that have an infinite amount of possibilities. What I'm saying is that for example, in terms of D) Deservedness, it is an abstract value that can have an infinite amount of values, therefor making it easier to quantify the statement into any factor. D) Deservedness can therefore range from 'high numbers' to 'low numbers', making it easier to calculate estimations without being exactly percise. Again, it's not a 'be-all end-all' equation as you imply it is, no more so than Einstein's equation "E=MC2" is the 'be-all end'all" for astrology and physics. When understanding the equation, it's like theoretical physics, basically.

 

[N3ON]

Thirdly, ToonZelda/Tetra have NO business being in the game whatsoever. NO business. Not only is that too much WW representation, it is also the wrong kind of Zelda representation - I'd rather have someone more universally useful, like Vaati, over ANOTHER Zelda.

If there was any time we were going to get Vaati, it would've been in Brawl. He's only lost popularity and overall importance since then. Do you know the Zelda character planned for Brawl? Toon Zelda. Sakurai obviously thinks they had more business than Vaati, and there's been nothing since then that would change him mind on it. If anything, Toon Zelda only has more of a case now with the WW remake and Spirit Tracks.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You make it sound as if you're even worth the time. And bias of my favorite characters from other games? What are you smoking and where can I get it? If I was bias about my favorite characters, I'd have Paper Mario, Demise, Zoroark and Nowi on my roster.

Did someone say smoke???

And Habanero, I'm sorry. Let me humor you. What was your discussion? Ill participate in this conversation.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Yes, but when Snake and Sonic are the superior choices in the long run, why replace them with not one, but two, Namco characters?

I've ALREADY explained it in my original response to Hotfeet444... but I'll explain it again. Snake seems to be a one-time character, just for the sake of a special favor, while Sonic seems unlikely because of Sega's relationship to Nintendo, not to mention other more popular requests for 3rd party characters, like Lloyd and Pacman especially. With Namco, as well, it is MUCH EASIER to have access to 3rd party characters than it is with Konami and Sega... especially Konami.

 

[Opossum]

Define quantitative, then. By my definitions, I mean an "indefinite amount or number", or at least variables that have an infinite amount of possibilities. What I'm saying is that for example, in terms of D) Deservedness, it is an abstract value that can have an infinite amount of values, therefor making it easier to quantify the statement into any factor. D) Deservedness can therefore range from 'high numbers' to 'low numbers', making it easier to calculate estimations without being exactly percise. Again, it's not a 'be-all end-all' equation as you imply it is, no more so than Einstein's equation "E=MC2" is the 'be-all end'all" for astrology and physics. When understanding the equation, it's like theoretical physics, basically.

Quantitative essentially means you can put a number on a value, and isn't something subjective. For example, how exactly are you determining "deserving-ness?" That would depend on your opinion of what is deserving. The equation really doesn't help at all.

If you want to know Sakurai's actual criteria without a need for this "equation," here they are.

- The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game.
- The character must be unique
- The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.
- They must contribute to the game balance.

And that's all. Well, minus some other things in certain circumstances, such as third parties, where he won't add them "willy nilly."

 

[TheLastJinjo]

DD is back?

I've seen your 'logical' arguments, and quite frankly, they're so flawed, I don't know where to being. I mean, just because Starfy is popular in Japan... Genesect was in a recent movie... what, I don't even.....

Dude, will you please look into things before making an *** of yourself for the hundredth time

Starfy is fairly well known, had 4 installments, a fifth in NA, has incredible move set potential, a great universe to represent, and Nintendo gives him lots of love and clearly sees him as important. He is an All-Star just like any other person on the roster.

Genesect is heavily promoted by Pokemon right now in games, merchandise, and has even gotten his own movie just to top it off. IF there is a newcomer Pokemon he is the best choice, the only others are Eevee and a Lucario wanna be.

Secondly, I'd replace Sheik with Impa, because with Zelda's recent appearance in SS, we need to start bring the SS universe into Smash, not just OoT. Besides, it's high time Zelda became something of her own, as Impa would balance with her much more than Sheik does.

How does Impa balance with Sheik better!? Sheik and Zelda are the same person and they change easily. Impa is a needless and complicated idea that isn't going to happen. Impa's appearance in SS doesn't mean anything. You and your stupid recency crap


Fourthly, replace Chrom with Roy.
Why are you rolling your eyes at somebody picking Chrom over Roy, the most logical outcome?


Pacman/Lloyd > Snake/Sonic
YOU CAN'T HAVE 2 THIRD PARTIES FROM THE SAME COMPANY!!!!! FOR THE LAST TIME LLOYD IS FROM NAMCO!

Fifthly, I have NO CLUE as to who Dark Matter even is. He's a Kirby character, right? Well, an obscure one at that.
Because if DD doesn't research a character or play it's game, it is obscure.

As for removing Sonic, while it's possible it may be unlikely. You gave very horrible suggestions. I'm ashamed, yet not surprised. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to play Pikmin 3 while I wait for you to leave.

 

[Khoru]

I've ALREADY explained it in my original response to Hotfeet444... but I'll explain it again. Snake seems to be a one-time character, just for the sake of a special favor, while Sonic seems unlikely because of Sega's relationship to Nintendo, not to mention other more popular requests for 3rd party characters, like Lloyd and Pacman especially. With Namco, as well, it is MUCH EASIER to have access to 3rd party characters than it is with Konami and Sega... especially Konami.

this isn't the nineties, dude, sega and nintendo aren't at war
also since ****ing when has lloyd had more requests than sonic or snake

 

[Opossum]

I've ALREADY explained it in my original response to Hotfeet444... but I'll explain it again. Snake seems to be a one-time character, just for the sake of a special favor, while Sonic seems unlikely because of Sega's relationship to Nintendo, not to mention other more popular requests for 3rd party characters, like Lloyd and Pacman especially. With Namco, as well, it is MUCH EASIER to have access to 3rd party characters than it is with Konami and Sega... especially Konami.

Did you seriously just imply that more people would want Pac-Man and LLOYD IRVING over Sonic? And to a lesser extent...Snake?

Sonic was the most requested character for Smash Bros., period. Bar-none. Meanwhile, Lloyd has very few requests, and Pac-Man's support is tepid at best. If anything, SEGA's current relationship with Nintendo would help Sonic, not hinder him. And why exactly does Snake seem like a one-time thing? Last I checked, Sakurai and Kojima are still friends, and Sakurai noted how Snake was very well-received in Brawl. If anything, they'd have an easier time getting Snake than Sonic, and that's saying something.

 

[zauberdragon]

I've ALREADY explained it in my original response to Hotfeet444... but I'll explain it again. Snake seems to be a one-time character, just for the sake of a special favor, while Sonic seems unlikely because of Sega's relationship to Nintendo, not to mention other more popular requests for 3rd party characters, like Lloyd and Pacman especially. With Namco, as well, it is MUCH EASIER to have access to 3rd party characters than it is with Konami and Sega... especially Konami.

no 3rd party will get two reps, end of story.

Also, how is it hard to access Snake and Sonic when they've both already appeared in Smash? It can't be that hard when it's already happened.

There's more to character selection than popularity. Sonic is FAR more popular than the two namco reps you've proposed yet you don't seem to address that.

Sega's relationship with Nintendo has never been better, even more so than it was coming into Brawl so I don't understand that point what so ever.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

If there was any time we were going to get Vaati, it would've been in Brawl. He's only lost popularity and overall importance since then. Do you know the Zelda character planned for Brawl? Toon Zelda. Sakurai obviously thinks they had more business than Vaati, and there's been nothing since then that would change him mind on it. If anything, Toon Zelda only has more of a case now with the WW remake and Spirit Tracks.

Just because a character missed a chance in one game... it doesn't mean they will miss another chance in another game. By your logic, Megaman would have NEVER been in SSB4... Bottom line is this, and this is the truth - Vaati has popularity AND importance to the Zelda universe, AND also has all four factors of the ABCD equation I made (uniqueness, moveset potential, roster balance, deservedness), AND not to mention being awesome. Whereas ToonZelda/Tetra not only fail the standards of the equation (D) Deservedness) but also one may ask what the Toon Universe has warranted getting extra-represention and over-exposure? Vaati would not only be a more popular choice among fans, but also do the game more justice.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You know... if you are even going to justify any choices for your roster, at least defend it with actual logical conclusions, and not just bias for your favorite characters from other games.

Like how you illogically added lloyd & Impa then removed EarthBound based on your own biased preferences?

 

[TheDivineDeity]

There's more to character selection than popularity. Sonic is FAR more popular than the two namco reps you've proposed yet you don't seem to address that.

Source?

 

[FlareHabanero]

And Habanero, I'm sorry. Let me humor you. What was your discussion? Ill participate in this conversation.

This basically,

There was a bit of discussion regarding to older characters, which makes me ponder about why it leaves a bigger impact then something that is new. I guess it's because it's more timeless while adding an upgraded spin on an old face. It's one of those things that is taken for granted, but with the limitations of the past it creates this speculation as to what would happen if said character was brought into a modern day setting with those limitations gone. It's kind of like Pit, who gained a lot of his familiar characteristics after being brought back into the limelight in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

In a nutshell, it's talking about why people like it when an old character is brought back with a more modern spin, essentially a revival.

 

[N3ON]

Just because a character missed a chance in one game... it doesn't mean they will miss another chance in another game. By your logic, Megaman would have NEVER been in SSB4... Bottom line is this, and this is the truth - Vaati has popularity AND importance to the Zelda universe, AND also has all four factors of the ABCD equation I made (uniqueness, moveset potential, roster balance, deservedness), AND not to mention being awesome. Whereas ToonZelda/Tetra not only fail the standards of the equation (D) Deservedness) but also one may ask what the Toon Universe has warranted getting extra-represention and over-exposure? Vaati would not only be a more popular choice among fans, but also do the game more justice.

You are literally disagreeing with Sakurai and it's hilarious.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I've ALREADY explained it in my original response to Hotfeet444... but I'll explain it again. Snake seems to be a one-time character, just for the sake of a special favor, while Sonic seems unlikely because of Sega's relationship to Nintendo, not to mention other more popular requests for 3rd party characters, like Lloyd and Pacman especially. With Namco, as well, it is MUCH EASIER to have access to 3rd party characters than it is with Konami and Sega... especially Konami.

Sega's relationship with Nintendo? You mean incredibly strong and so strong to the point that they have Sonic exclusively on their systems for the next three games, the whole set of Olympic games titles, and more? Oh yeah, that's enough to derail Sonic's chances, it's not like the head of Sonic Team already said he'd love for Sonic to come back to Smash Bros. Your logic baffles me.

This basically,




In a nutshell, it's talking about why people like it when an old character is brought back with a more modern spin, essentially a revival.

I guess it's because fans believed said character had alot of potential to be something great if a little more time was put into their development/series, which is easily shown in franchises like Kid Icarus. Especially characters like Takamaru, who looks like a character with alot of potential for his own new titles and future character development. That or people were curious about said character but couldn't find out much about them, and through new revivals, more people learn about said character and develop a strong bond with said character through said character's likeability, personality, and more.

 

[zauberdragon]

Source?

Common sense, Smashboards, pop culture. There's no need for a source on the question 'who is a more popular video game character? Sonic the Hedgehog or Lloyd'? Unless of course you only started playing video games an hour ago.

 

[Opossum]

Source?

Are you really serious right now...you need a source that Sonic is more popular than Lloyd and Pac-Man as Smash characters...

 

[TumblrFamous]

I've ALREADY explained it in my original response to Hotfeet444... but I'll explain it again. Snake seems to be a one-time character, just for the sake of a special favor, while Sonic seems unlikely because of Sega's relationship to Nintendo, not to mention other more popular requests for 3rd party characters, like Lloyd and Pacman especially. With Namco, as well, it is MUCH EASIER to have access to 3rd party characters than it is with Konami and Sega... especially Konami.

What do you mean, Sega's relationship to Nintendo? They're basically BFs right now, which is why Sonic is even more likely to return. Not to mention the amount of begging Sakurai heard from fans pre-Brawl.

And Lloyd isn't likely. He's definitely the next best choice after Pac-Man. But after Megamna, Sakurai made it pretty clear that the bar for third parties is set extraordinairly high. The only likely Rep after the three we have is Pacman.

Are you really serious right now...you need a source that Sonic is more popular than Lloyd and Pac-Man as Smash characters...

Well, Sonic is probably just as popular as Pac-Man. But Lloyd? Hell to the no.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

DD is back? Better than ever!

Dude, stop stealing from GOLDENYU of all epople!

Dude, will you please look into things before making an *** of yourself for the hundredth time

Starfy is fairly well known, had 4 installments, a fifth in NA, has incredible move set potential, a great universe to represent, and Nintendo gives him lots of love and clearly sees him as important. He is an All-Star (?) just like any other person on the roster. Says who... you? Seriously Noah, all Starfy has going for him is being an AT, which he is better off as. I will admit this now... he has moveset potential, he has a unique universe to represent, he brings roster balance AND a uniqueness unto himself, and Starfy is popular. HOWEVER..... there are FAR more newcomers not just from the likes of Ridley and King K Rool, not just 3rd parties like Lloyd and Pacman, but also ATs like LITTLE MAC, Saki, and Waluigi. That is the last hurdle Starfy needs to pass through if he wants to win.

Genesect is heavily promoted by Pokemon right now in games, merchandise, and has even gotten his own movie just to top it off. IF there is a newcomer Pokemon he is the best choice, the only others are Eevee and a Lucario wanna be.
I'm not even going to address this point... because the moment you mentioned EEVEE as a contender... you've lost the argument you were trying to make. EEVEE WOULD BE LUCKY TO BE AN AT...


As for removing Sonic, while it's possible it may be unlikely. You gave very horrible suggestions. I'm ashamed, yet not surprised. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to play Pikmin 3 while I wait for you to leave. Basically... whenever I confront anybody's claims... they run off. Quite a trend I'm seeing here.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The Man Of Bones Roster Version dos

View attachment 2069
Diddy and Dixie is now just diddy
Paper Mario was swapped for toad
Roy was swapped for chrom
Replaced Starfy for Isaac
Replaced Pac-Man for Snake

I'm OK with this roster.

Not the one I'd want the most, but I could live with it just fine.

 

[Hotfeet444]

DD is back?

Dude, will you please look into things before making an *** of yourself for the hundredth time

Starfy is fairly well known, had 4 installments, a fifth in NA, has incredible move set potential, a great universe to represent, and Nintendo gives him lots of love and clearly sees him as important. He is an All-Star just like any other person on the roster.

Genesect is heavily promoted by Pokemon right now in games, merchandise, and has even gotten his own movie just to top it off. IF there is a newcomer Pokemon he is the best choice, the only others are Eevee and a Lucario wanna be.



As for removing Sonic, while it's possible it may be unlikely. You gave very horrible suggestions. I'm ashamed, yet not surprised. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to play Pikmin 3 while I wait for you to leave.

Thank you for doing the tearing as I shot missiles into Nightmare's disgusting slimy face. Here, you deserve a cookie.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

You are literally disagreeing with Sakurai and it's hilarious.

How?

 

[zauberdragon]

I've said this before but there's only, in my eyes, five classic video-game characters that almost every single non-gamer has heard of, Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Sonic and Pac-Man. Those five in one game would be the quintessential classic video game fighter.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Good lord, how many arguments is Divine going to get into?

 

[FlareHabanero]

There are human beings that require a source to determine how popular SONIC THE HEDGEHOG is...

 

[TheDivineDeity]

What do you mean.....
And Lloyd isn't likely. He's definitely the next best choice after Pac-Man. But after Megamna, Sakurai made it pretty clear that the bar for third parties is set extraordinairly high. The only likely Rep after the three we have is Pacman.

Lloyd and Pacman's chance are actually higher than you say it is. Both have warranted a placement on their roster for a variety of reasons, but most importantly it's because the relationship with Namco makes the transition easier. And no.. just because Sakurai said Namco isn't getting special treatment... it doesn't mean Namco isn't allowed any characters. THAT baffling lack of logic is actually how everybody except me and a few others interpret the statement.

 

[TumblrFamous]

This basically,




In a nutshell, it's talking about why people like it when an old character is brought back with a more modern spin, essentially a revival.

Well, amidst all the Sonic vs. Lloyd jargon, let me answer. Persoanlly (completely my opinion), I'm getting tired of the same stuff being developed by Nintendo over and over again. 3 or 4 New sMB games, really? That's why I love it when a character that is considered "Retro" is brought into smash, or gets a revival, I get excited. Like Nintendo is trying something new. Which iss why I was so excited for KI:U and Punch Out!!! I get tired of more and more games like Mario where they're right now in a rut with the main platformers. So when Retro characters get a revival, I'm so excited that there might be something actually "new".

This is just me though.

 

[Hotfeet444]

There are human beings that require a source to determine how popular SONIC THE HEDGEHOG is...

Humans truly are the dumbest creatures alive.

 

[Khoru]

guys, lloyd is likely to be in ssb because he was in super smash flash

 

[TheDivineDeity]

There are human beings that require a source to determine how popular SONIC THE HEDGEHOG is...

Well, there goes people asking for sources now, I guess... Looks like we're all going to make baseless assumptions instead... because GOD FORBID people actually ask others to verify their facts.

 

[zauberdragon]

If there's one thing Divine has displayed over the last two days is that he's a stickler for scientific process with his equations and sources. Unfortunately in his lust for empiricism he has also displayed a complete lack of any semblance of common sense.

 

[TheDivineDeity]

Okay, I admit... Lloyd is not even nearly as popular as Sonic (even though I still predict him over Sonic in the game because of several factors). But Pacman certainly is more than popular enough to rival Sonic.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I absolutely love how it's even possible for someone to come in here, judge a roster with incredibly weak biased statements, and then get into arguments over and over again until he realizes he's in too deep then runs away. It's times like this that make me both love and hate this thread at the same time.

If there's one thing Divine has displayed over the last two days is that he's a stickler for scientific process with his equations and sources. Unfortunately in his lust for empiricism he has also displayed a complete lack of any semblance of common sense.

I'm telling you man, the usage of Top tiers is getting to his head.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Source?

 

[N3ON]

How?

You are trying to argue that a character Sakurai has included before has never reached Sakurai's standards of inclusion. I can only assume you're trolling at this point because the alternative is just too sad.