Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Swamp Sensei]

Death Battle was the same thing that said a stupid Pony would beat a Transformer and severely crippled Batman by not letting him do what makes him the Goddamn Batman; prepare for his fight.
No **** Batman will lose against Spider-Man if he is not given time to prepare; but that's beside the point. Batman ALWAYS prepares.

Couple things.

It was the animated version of Starscream. Anyone can beat him. He's a wuss.

They said that if they let Batman prepare for the fight, they would give the same leisure to Spiderman, who is also skilled at preparing for fights. It would have turned out the same way regardless.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Death Battle was the same thing that said a stupid Pony would beat a Transformer and severely crippled Batman by not letting him do what makes him the Goddamn Batman; prepare for his fight.
No **** Batman will lose against Spider-Man if he is not given time to prepare; but that's beside the point. Batman ALWAYS prepares.

I'm still mad how they used Goku's current state against Frieza to determine the fight between Superman.[\color]

 

[Deleted member]

@Swampy: It's supposed to be a full range for the character.
If Eggman can somehow have Scratch and Grounder in his army against Wily, then Starscream's wuss side shouldn't have been totally dominant.

But the main issue with the fight is not that Rainbow Dash destroyed him. That I can understand. But somehow winning the fight by eating his Allspark? That's some bull. She should asplode.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

What insults?

Using an offensive phrase and intending it to be applied to somebody is an insult. If its not your intention then there's no reason to say it.

Takaya Imamura never made Captain Falcon go around punching people with his fists. He was just supposed to be driving a racecar. You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where Captain Falcon fits best is in a level.

R.O.B.'s designer never made him go around punching people with his "hands". He was just supposed to be moving blocks and tops. You're forcing him into an environment that doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where R.O.B. fits best is in a level.

Gunpei Yokoi never made Mr. Game & Watch go around hitting people with everything but the kitchen sink. He was just supposed to be juggling balls and doing simple tasks. You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where Mr. Game & Watch fits best is in a level.

Shigeru Miyamoto and Takaya Imamura never made Fox or Falco go around punching people with their fists. They were just supposed to be dogfighting in ships. You're forcing them into an environment they don't belong and does not represent them. Where Fox and Falco fit best is in a level.

Shigeru Miyamoto never made Zelda go around hitting people with magic. She was just supposed to be the helpless woman you saved. You're forcing her into an environment she doesn't belong and does not represent her. Where Zelda fits best is in a level.

....need I go on?

Captain falcon is a bounty hunter, I wouldn't call him a pacifist.
Falco and Fox fight and kill people all the time.
ROB and game & watch have the personality of oblivious beings just doing what they do and hurting people in the process. If pacman were to just do what he does he'd just being moving across the screen opening and closing his mouth.
Zelda exists in a world of combat and posses magical abilities herself plus she was trained by impa. Its not far fetched to put her in a situation where she fights.


And Jesus Christ can you argue without childish mimics and calling people stupid? And don't throw a lame excuse about what literal effects it has on the argument. I know what you're trying to accomplish. I've debated with a lot of people on these forums, some arguments getting way more heated than this one but they don't do that. Don't be so quick to make enemies all the time. These forums would be a lot better without the hostility.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But the main issue with the fight is not that Rainbow Dash destroyed him. That I can understand. But somehow winning the fight by eating his Allspark? That's some bull. She should asplode.

That was mostly done for comedy.

Like Blanka eating Pikachu.

@G-man

Umm.... I don't recall Golden insulting you this time.

 

[Fastblade5035]

@ Superman Vs. Goku

Nuff said.
Wow, can't believe people are still salty about an obvious outcome.

BUT I REPEAT, which Joke character do you think is most likely?

 

[---]

@Death Battle: Not trying to play mod here, but this is stuff that would get the thread locked in an instant and I'd cut it out or take it else where.


I really care about Mega Man, Sonic, and Snake, however, not to the extent that I'd miss them if they weren't included, guest characters aren't a real high priority need for me. Ryu Hayabusa would be a nice surprise for me though, as would be the Black Mage.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Personally, I'd be very disappointed if Snake and Sonic left. Just add Megaman and third parties are perfect for me.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Lol Ginger Golden didn't really insult you at all

All he said that was your argument isn't sound, which isn't an insult

When he said ********, he didn't target that towards you specifically, he was talking about the idea of Pac-Man only representing the original arcade game

As in, it would be stupid if that turned out to be the case

 

[Deleted member]

Like ---, the only third-parties I truly care about are Sonic, Snake and Mega Man; the former two because they're veterans in Brawl and the latter because he's my most wanted character. I would also love to see Geno as a surprise character and I like Tails, Bomberman and Slime as well. However, these four have little to no chance.

I would honestly be more disappointed if our new third-party was Pac-Man than if third-parties were erased entirely. A Namco rep has always felt off ever since the announcement that Namco Bandai would be working with Nintendo and for reasons other than move set potentials.

 

[FalKoopa]

BUT I REPEAT, which Joke character do you think is most likely?

I'd say Tingle.

 

[Deleted member]

On Death Battle, it'd be better if we just drop it. I'd probably end up chocking someone if I had to argue as to why Goku's loss was ****ing bull****...

SSJ3 could be heard all across the Universe when he powered up in his fight with Janemba. inb4 not canon, they considered GT for their fight. Also, they said they would be using the cartoony Superman who can sneeze away solar systems.

And what the **** was up with the lack on IT in that fight? Goddamn... I'm just gonna stop now. Biggest disappoinment of 2012 was Goku vs. Superman by far...


On Joke characters... Uhhhh I dunno man.

Captain Rainbow I guess?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Joke characters?

Cranky Kong

 

[ChronoBound]

Like ---, the only third-parties I truly care about are Sonic, Snake and Mega Man; the former two because they're veterans in Brawl and the latter because he's my most wanted character.

I would honestly be more disappointed if our new third-party was Pac-Man than if third-parties were erased entirely. A Namco rep has always felt off ever since the announcement that Namco Bandai would be working with Nintendo and for reasons other than move set potentials.

That is pretty much my sentiment too. However, I would extend Pac-Man to a Namco character in general. You are right that the idea of a Namco character has always felt off.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Speaking of a Namco character, but for some reason the idea of Lloyd sounds less appealing then Cress. I have no idea why, but maybe it's because in my opinion Cress deserves the spot more, considering he's the first protagonist of the Tales series and the one that makes the most appearances, even appearing on the Tales logo.

In my eyes at least, if we're going to get a Tales character, it would make sense to go with the arguable mascot of the franchise.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I expect Waluigi and Isaac and I assume Ridley. If there's a Mario, there's a Luigi, so if there's a Wario, there oughtta be a Waluigi. Isaac is the main protagonist from his series though I haven't played the third one, so he's the most likely from his realm. Metroid needs a new face, and what better than Ridley's?
They may drop Lucario, for they did so to the more loved Mewtwo, and will probably replace Lucario with the new anthropomorphic super Pokémon which I'm not up-to-date on 'cause the new ones are ugly as hell, in general. Pichu and Roy are probably not coming back.

I saw others post their wishlist here, so I have also.
Besides the Melee characters plus Lucas, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Wario, Pokémon Trainer and his slaves, Diddy Kong, Pit, Captain Olimar, Sonic and R.O.B., my desired additions:
A) Kuwabara, B) Magic Emperor Ghaleon, C) Rocket, D) Felix, E) Rayman, F) Lanky Kong, G) Globox, H) Isaac, I) Hector, J) Fawful, K) Tempest, L) Dragonmaster Alex, M) Space Pirate, N) Vela, O) Yuske Urameshi, P) Hiei, Q) Waluigi, R) Ridley, S) Kyle, T) Knuckles, U) Juno, V) Ryo, W) Nash, X) Lupus, Y) Prince Peasley, & Z) Kurama.

I like Hu Hu Hakusho and all but... the hell? A lot of those choices would be better off posted in the impossible characters thread.

 

[Popsydoodles]

the reason i say lloyd over cress is because lloyd uses two swords and thats something new to smash and I think lloyd is more known than Cress. I'd be okay with Cress but i prefer lloyd.

 

[Arcadenik]

It's one of the bigger standards, and one of the more important details that people seem to take for granted.

There is a reason why Takamaru would work and why the dog from Duck Hunt wouldn't.

By the way, characters that are more of a blank slate are better then characters that already have a foundation. This is because with such a character, you can be more creative with what they are capable of and are not bounded down by any already established archetypes.

You are saying that characters who are blank slates are better than characters who already have a foundation. Duck Hunt Dog is pretty much a blank state and yet you are saying Duck Hunt Dog wouldn't work because he doesn't have a foundation like Takamaru does. Are we cherry picking here?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Maybe so, but can Lloyd transform into a phoenix like Cress?

 

[Popsydoodles]

Maybe so, but can Lloyd transform into a phoenix like Cress?

He can grow wings and fly with his ex-sphere

 

[Deleted member]

Using an offensive phrase and intending it to be applied to somebody is an insult. If its not your intention then there's no reason to say it.

As Metal Overlord said, I did not insult you. I was saying that Pac-Man only representing the classic arcade game would be ********. Unless that somehow translates to "you are ********", I do not see the issue with that.

Captain falcon is a bounty hunter, I wouldn't call him a pacifist.
Falco and Fox fight and kill people all the time.
ROB and game & watch have the personality of oblivious beings just doing what they do and hurting people in the process. If pacman were to just do what he does he'd just being moving across the screen opening and closing his mouth.
Zelda exists in a world of combat and posses magical abilities herself plus she was trained by impa. Its not far fetched to put her in a situation where she fights.

Your argument was that Pac-Man does not fit in Smash Bros. because his original game (the only one that apparently matters, it seems) doesn't have him "punching".
All the examples I gave are the same deal. These counterpoints you are making are arguing a different point, in that the characters aren't "pacifist", which is attacking a straw man, as I never argued that they were.
At which I can easily counterpoint with again, that Pac-Man is seen beating people up with a Mokujin mech in Street Fighter X Tekken and doesn't seem to have any problem with doing so (as shown in his rival videos with "Mega Man", where he is shown to stalk him for whatever reason). As well as the fact that Pac-Man lives in a murderous world where ghosts want to kill him and he can "kill" them as well (in quotations because he can't really kill the ghosts, persay). And then we get the alternate interpretation to the original game in his ending, where it really is about a giant Pac-Man gobbling up trees in a city while causing property damage just to curb his endless hunger.

And that R.O.B. is clearly not oblivious to what he is doing in Brawl, but that's a different argument.

And Jesus Christ can you argue without childish mimics and calling people stupid? And don't throw a lame excuse about what literal effects it has on the argument. I know what you're trying to accomplish. I've debated with a lot of people on these forums, some arguments getting way more heated than this one but they don't do that. Don't be so quick to make enemies all the time. These forums would be a lot better without the hostility.

The only one bringing hostility is you. I suggest you either calm yourself or drop the argument.

 

[Arcadenik]

the reason i say lloyd over cress is because lloyd uses two swords and thats something new to smash and I think lloyd is more known than Cress. I'd be okay with Cress but i prefer lloyd.

Nah. I want Toon Ganondorf with two swords over Lloyd. That way, we get a decloned Ganondorf AND a character who uses two swords.

 

[Popsydoodles]

Nah. I want Toon Ganondorf with two swords over Lloyd. That way, we get a decloned Ganondorf AND a character who uses two swords.

i say pfffft that we got one ganondorf. we dont need two. same goes for link

 

[Arcadenik]

i say pfffft that we got one ganondorf. we dont need two. same goes for link

Correct, we only need one Ganondorf. It is time to give Ganondorf the Toon makeover.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Speaking of a Namco character, but for some reason the idea of Lloyd sounds less appealing then Cress. I have no idea why, but maybe it's because in my opinion Cress deserves the spot more, considering he's the first protagonist of the Tales series and the one that makes the most appearances, even appearing on the Tales logo.

In my eyes at least, if we're going to get a Tales character, it would make sense to go with the arguable mascot of the franchise.

I've only played a tales game once.
Why is Lloyd such a popular candidate compared to the other tales characters? I never hear people suggest anyone else.

 

[Arcadenik]

I've only played a tales game once.
Why is Lloyd such a popular candidate compared to the other tales characters? I never hear people suggest anyone else.

My theory? It is because Tales of Symphonia is probably the first "Nintendo" Tales game most people in the West played. To them, Lloyd is like the "Marth" of the Tales series.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Nah. I want Toon Ganondorf with two swords over Lloyd. That way, we get a decloned Ganondorf AND a character who uses two swords.

Personally I don't really want to see a Toon Ganondorf. I think he is better off in his TP or OoT design and he can be decloned pretty easily too.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well with Lloyd, he comes from the arguably most popular title in the series, Tales of Symphonia. In fact it was popular enough to even get a sequel for the Wii called Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, which in a series like Tales is actually somewhat rare.

 

[ChronoBound]

My theory? It is because Tales of Symphonia is probably the first "Nintendo" Tales game most people in the West played. To them, Lloyd is like the "Marth" of the Tales series.

Ding ding ding.

Tales of Symphonia was a high-quality RPG on the GameCube, so it was a big fish in a small pond. It was also the first fully 3D installment to the franchise as well. Keep in mind Tales of Symphonia was later ported to the PS2 in Japan.

I don't really like the idea of a Tales character in Smash Bros. I think even Pac-Man or a Tekken character would stand out more.

 

[Deleted member]

Joke characters?

Cranky Kong

DOOD!

He can be like Master Roshi. He can transform into his prime for a limited time to get a strength boost. He also use Yoda-like agility, proving how he really CAN clear the game in 2 hours, note like modern amateurs.

Cranky would be the reverse Joke character. Riddiculously good, for the sake of a pun.

 

[Deleted member]

Lloyd also was the guest for Soul Calibur Legends kind of like Heihachi in PS2 Soul Calibur II.

EDIT: Cranky don't need to be young to kick some tail.
Why do you think he was training?

Wish I had a better image...

 

[Arcadenik]

Personally I don't really want to see a Toon Ganondorf. I think he is better off in his TP or OoT design and he can be decloned pretty easily too.

OOT Ganondorf and TP Ganondorf disappointed me in Melee and Brawl. OOT Ganondorf for being a Captain Falcon clone. TP Ganondorf for being a worse Captain Falcon clone. I think it is TWW Ganondorf's turn.... hope the third time is a charm.

 

[ChronoBound]

That being said. I think the chances for a Tales character is on par with Pac-Man.

 

[FlareHabanero]

That being said. I think the chances for a Tales character is on par with Pac-Man.

Actually the odds of getting a Tales character is arguably the greatest, which is contributed mainly to Higuchi pretty much being the only one to have expressed interest. Harada has mentioned the idea of Tekken characters, but is kind of concerned with the idea and is keeping it low for now, while Pac-man is very ambiguous with no comment expressed yet.

 

[Deleted member]

That is pretty much my sentiment too. However, I would extend Pac-Man to a Namco character in general. You are right that the idea of a Namco character has always felt off.

I mainly specified Pac-Man since he's the only one with a shot (at least from what I can see), but I agree that it goes for a Namco character in general.

Sakurai has made it clear that when it comes to third-parties that he wants to be very careful with what he wants to add (if we get any). He treats third-party as a special treat for the fans; whenever that is by adding massively popular characters (Sonic) or by a surprise addition that most fans turn out to love (Snake). Because of how well Snake and Sonic worked out, new third-parties (if any) are going to be ones that Sakurai consider to be special treats for the fans to enjoy. For Smash 4, the two that work best at this job would be Mega Man (because of massive fan demand) and Layton (because he would work well as a surprise guest as few expect him). Those two are the ones I'm keeping my eyes on because they can make solid third-party additions if done right (even if I'm not a supporter of Layton, I have no qualms with him getting in).

Compare that to Namco characters. There were very good reasons why a Namco rep was uncommonly requested back a year ago. Now because Namco Bandai is working on it, suddenly, many people feel as Namco is entitled to a rep in Smash. Pac-Man is currently seen by many as a very likely, if not inevitable addition and some of these people will see you as behind the time for not including a Namco character on your roster. Yet it is clear on two things; that a Namco rep is nowhere nearly as requested as Mega Man (even in Japan, Tales fans can't decide on which character to push for) and that a Namco character won't work as a surprise reveal.

Put Mega Man in and you have fans all over the world cheering for his inclusion in Smash (it will be seen as one of the great days for Mega Man fans). Put a surprise character in and while people would be initially upset, as long as the addition is good, fans will come to love it. Put a Namco character in, however, and it's probably going to be taken for granted. And as we can tell, Sakurai wants to avoid third-parties that will be taken for granted. It's one of several reasons why I express strong doubts on a Namco character after all of these times (especially one that isn't Pac-Man).

 

[ChronoBound]

I still can't believe we will be getting newcomer confirmations in only about 1.5 months time.

 

[---]

@Namco: Yeah it always felt kinda off, though not as off as say Bayonetta or SMT when those games were announced to have Nintendo involvement.


Also just saw this on GoNintendo, looked like something that should be posted here:

"Unlike previous years, we will not have a large-scale [E3] presentation directed to everyone in the world. Instead, we are planning several smaller events focusing on software for America. Among these hands-on events will be one for American distributors and another for western media."

Definitely sounds like Nintendo Directs have nearly made E3 obsolete.

 

[Popsydoodles]

I still can't believe we will be getting newcomer confirmations in only about 1.5 months time.

still seems like forever...ugh

 

[FlareHabanero]

still seems like forever...ugh

Get over it baby, we've been waiting since E3 2011. Another 40-ish days is not going to murder you.

 

[Arcadenik]

I guess for me, Pac-Man would be my most-wanted Namco rep, followed by Lloyd and then Heihachi.

Pac-Man always seem like he would fit in more than Lloyd and Heihachi due to his appearances in Mario Kart Arcade games... plus I love the idea of Pac-Man facing off against arcade legends, Donkey Kong and the Mario Bros. I guess I am just feeling oversaturated with many potential anime-looking newcomers (Palutena, Takamaru, Chrom, Shulk, Little Mac, etc.) that I want some potential cartoony newcomers to balance them out.