Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Dark Phazon]

Do you guys think Rayman would be more exciting then Pacman? Sure hes not that requested but i think he has a decent shot. well decent enough to be considered...

 

[Deleted member]

By the way, characters that are more of a blank slate are better then characters that already have a foundation. This is because with such a character, you can be more creative with what they are capable of and are not bounded down by any already established archetypes.

Exactly, Blank Slate characters are the best, because you can simply build a moveset and strategy for them based on their appearance alone. In fact, this is how many fighting game characters are made. Usually, their appearance is a subtle reflection of how they fight. The concept is made first, then the design, finally the moveset. The character strategy is usally the first step, but both are interchangable.

Check this out:

A slender attractie man with a long sword. A slender frame usually reflects someone who prefers to fight from a safe distance. Likewise, he's got a katana, most katana users are swift. In addition the character wears blue, which usually denotes a more calm and 'strategic' character. In addition, you can notice the character has a calm and collected expression, meaning he must be more of a thinker, than a doer, which must also hold true in regard to his fighting style. The katana is unusually long, meaning the character must also have decent ranged pokes. Finally you can see a snowflake in the background meaning, he must have an affinity for ice, or use ice-moves that can freeze opponents, further adding to the mix-up this character can bring. Likewise, if you've seen the cover of this game you'll notive he's featured as one of the main characters, meaning he must be a beginner character and easy to learn.

All of these things hold true for Jin.

 

[Shorts]

Do you guys think Rayman would be more exciting then Pacman? Sure hes not that requested but i think he has a decent shot. well decent enough to be considered...

Pretty much the only third party characters that I feel have a decent shot would be Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Geno, Pac-Man and Lloyd

 

[Diddy Kong]

Geno having a decent shot? I'd like that. He's the only 3rd party character I'd actually like getting in.

 

[Oasis_S]

I think I might have to disagree with you Manly? Whether or not having a strict playstyle is good or not, by rule, I don't really know, but it seems like Sakurai strives for each character to have the versatility to be used however the player wants, to a degree. Which is why I think... YOUR MORE TYPICAL COMBOS are a bad thing for Smash, since it's kind of directing how the player should play. Anyway, I guess maybe Snake is a good example, even though he's clearly designed to set traps, you don't have to abide by that and you can still do well enough without it.

I dunno, I guess all fighting games have that to an extent.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Pretty much the only third party characters that I feel have a decent shot would be Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Geno, Pac-Man and Lloyd

Just asking: when peepz mention ''Layton'' do thet mean Professer Layton/Leyton?
Right? Isnt he 1st or 2nd party?

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't say decent. But it is a distinct possibility, which is rather rare for a 3rd Party at this point.
And this is only because Geno became popular after Sakurai finalized Brawl's roster. Had Geno had that popularity before that happened and he STILL didn't get in, then the possibility would be non-existent.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

That's because "those same four moves" are typically the easiest to envision for most and are somewhat iconic to him through the Pac-Man World games. It's no different than how everyone gives K. Rool a crown toss, the Blunderbuss, the helicopter pack, and a fourth move that is usually the shockwave from 64.
But it's not all Pac has. Not even within Pac-Man World 3, which also features the Red Ribbon Attack power up (a trail follows Pac-Man, and when he makes a loop with it, it closes and damages enemies in it) and the Electro-Shock power up, which can be compared to Force Lightning.

In total, he's got:
Chomp
Pac-Dot Shoot (Shoots a Pac-Dot from his palm)
Super Pac-Dot Shoot (Spins around while shooting 10 Pac-Dots)
Butt Bounce
Triple Butt Bounce (An increasingly stronger Butt Bounce that causes a shockwave upon the final bounce)
Rev Roll
Flip Kick
Steel Body (Pointless in Smash due to Metal Box)
Tiny Pac (Pointless in Smash due to Poison Mushroom)
Red Ribbon Attack
Electro-Shock
Fly Dots (Pac-Man eats a trail of these in a path; possible recovery move)
Magic Boots (These grant Pac-Man infinite jumps in Pac-Land; possible recovery move)
Power Pellets
Super Pac-Man (A power up in the game with the same name, this made Pac-Man larger, invulnerable, and gave him a Super Speed power with the Super Speed button held down; possible Final Smash material)
Magic Wand (A power up in Pac-Man Arrangement that turned the ghosts into edible presents; unlike the Power Pellet, once eaten, they will remain as floating eyeballs where there were eaten until the power up wears off or he eats them all)
Slingshot (How the player interacts with Pac-Man in Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures; the player does not control Pac-Man himself)
Pellet Gun (Similar to the Pac-Dot Shoot, this fires Pac-Dots at enemies; from Pac-In-Time when Pac-Man jumps through a Yellow Ring)
Rope Swing (Think Spider-Man as Pac-Man spawns a rope on a ceiling to swing from; from Pac-In-Time when Pac-Man jumps through a Green Ring)
Hammer Attack (from Pac-In-Time when Pac-Man jumps through a Red Ring)
Bubble Jet (An attack used to attack underwater enemies in Pac-In-Time, only available when Pac-Man jumps through a Blue Ring, which allows him to swim)
Sonic Ray (One of the multiple attacks used to stun the ghosts in Pac and Pal after eating a Galaxian flagship)
Exhaust Smoke (One of the multiple attacks used to stun the ghosts in Pac and Pal after eating a Rally-X car)
Music Notes (One of the multiple attacks used to stun the ghosts in Pac and Pal after eating a trumpet)
Ice Breath (One of the multiple attacks used to stun the ghosts in Pac and Pal after eating a snowman)
Mini Pac-Men (One of the multiple attacks used to stun the ghosts in Pac and Pal after eating a little Pac-Man)


And there's probably more I'm missing. But anyone that says Pac-Man doesn't have potential clearly has not done their research.

This is something I've been wanting to show all the anti-Pac haters for a long time. I've heard of and played most of these games by now.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Characters should not stick to a strict playstyle, for it would cause crippling specialization. A great character is one that can handle pretty much every situation to an extent, while a bad one is one that gets crippled by their supposed focus.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I thibk you guys are looking deep into competetive fighting games and not smash....you get me?

 

[Oasis_S]

Characters should not stick to a strict playstyle, for it would cause crippling specialization. A great character is one that can handle pretty much every situation to an extent, while a bad one is one that gets crippled by their supposed focus.

WOO! YEAH. TEAM STRONG SPICE BABY.

 

[---]

Strong Stuff

We all certainly make speculation a lot harder than it needs to be don't we?

 

[Deleted member]

Just asking: when peepz mention ''Layton'' do thet mean Professer Layton/Leyton?
Right? Isnt he 1st or 2nd party?

Layton is third-party. However, he is one of the more realistic contenders out there thanks to Hino (president of Level-5) saying he really wanted Layton in Smash and Sakurai being aware of this. I do think that there's a good chance Hino and Sakurai has sat down together to talk about Layton. I would be leaning towards including him in my roster if it didn't mean four third-parties (I still feel as Mega Man is the most likely third-party addition).

 

[Shorts]

I don't like the idea of FITTING SPECIFIC PLAYSTYLES ON CHARACTERS, but characters moreso create there own.

 

[Deleted member]

I think I might have to disagree with you Manly? Whether or not having a strict playstyle is good or not, by rule, I don't really know, but it seems like Sakurai strives for each character to have the versatility to be used however the player wants, to a degree. Which is why I think... YOUR MORE TYPICAL COMBOS are a bad thing for Smash, since it's kind of directing how the player should play. Anyway, I guess maybe Snake is a good example, even though he's clearly designed to set traps, you don't have to abide by that and you can still do well enough without it.

I dunno, I guess all fighting games have that to an extent.

Sort of, clearly he gave a lot of thought to certain character strategies. Well, either him, or someone in his team. Characters like Marth, Fox, Snake, Peach, and Diddy Kong clearly had a lot of thought put into them. However, others like Sonic, Samus, Bowser, and Yoshi were more disregarded. Obviously the clone/half-clones as well. Everyone else is a sort of middle ground like what you say. Aiming to strive for versatility in playstyle.

However, versatility is ALSO a playstyle strategy, look at Sol Badguy in Guilty Gear. Dude thrives on that.

The problem with just mishmashing characters like that is that they are all very dependent on circumstances, and at the mercy of the mechanics. Moreso than characters that have a more solid strategy. This is why Marth and Peach have managed to stay on the higher ends of tier lists despite mechanics changes. Fox did too, but he was nerfed too hard in Brawl. Falco still dominated though, and Wolf did pretty good.

If every character had the same amount of though put into them that Marth and Peach do, then Smash would be a much better balanced game.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Layton is third-party. However, he is one of the more realistic contenders out there thanks to Hino (president of Level-5) saying he really wanted Layton in Smash and Sakurai being aware of this. I do think that there's a good chance Hino and Sakurai has sat down together to talk about Layton. I would be leaning towards including him in my roster if it didn't mean four third-parties (I still feel as Mega Man is the most likely third-party addition).

Ahh i see thanks for that. Also if it does end up being
Sonic
Snake
Layton

Or

Sonic
Snake
Layton
Megaman/Pacman

Its not exzacty fans choice or exciting/suprising is it..

 

[Oasis_S]

If every character had the same amount of though put into them that Marth and Peach do, then Smash would be a much better balanced game.

I guess they all need to be Served a little habanero then.

Also, you dare talk bad about my Yoshi? I will flutter footstool you to hell, Sir.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Except that more than half of the attacks I listed came from "past" games. In fact, even the "latest" attacks (Red Ribbon Attack and Electro-Shock) are back in 2005.
So unless you are arguing that Pac-Man should represent ONLY the original arcade game and nothing else (which would be quite ********), your argument is not sound.

Keep the insults out of this, golden.

I know I posted this somewhere before with better wording but I'll try to explain it again in the context of this argument.
My other argument is that unless you're considering the games that pac-man tried to be like mario (which is not why hes unique or why people like him) hes not a fighter. His designer never made him to go around punching people with his fists. He was just supposed to be eating things.You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where pacman fits the best is in a level.
Before you say that's no reason for him to appear in a level rather than a playable character, I would like an explanation why the villager from animal crossing isn't a combatant.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Yh Bowser & Ganon need a break..make em good for once..well bowser in brawl is better than he was in melee in most ways..but its very hard to approach with those chars... And hav very little moves to get em outta sticky situations...

 

[FlareHabanero]

I guess they all need to be Served a little habanero then.

You could say it would add a little Spice to the characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Ahh i see thanks for that. Also if it does end up being
Sonic
Snake
Layton

Or

Sonic
Snake
Layton
Megaman/Pacman

Its not exzacty fans choice or exciting/suprising is it..

Pretty much a relatively unsurprising third-party roster.

But as for exciting, anything with Mega Man = guarantee SSB4 buy. At least to me.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Mega man vs Samus be so epic you just know it has to be a event match.

If Megaman isnt revealed in the trailer alone by himself at the end then i think samus would be perfect to set him up.

And fox flying in his airwing while Ridley is chasing him. Into space then Deoxys..naa xD joke joke lol.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Would Layton even be practical in a fighting game? I'm not familiar with the Professor Layton games, but that guy doesn't seem to be the brawling type.

 

[BKupa666]

*Golden's list of Pac-Man moves*

Impressive! Perhaps Pac-Man would not be given the 'boring' label if his Chomp/Roll/Butt Bounce trademarks were as unique as half of what you posted.

Now playstyle discussions...there's something intriguing we haven't discussed much.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Would Layton even be practical in a fighting game? I'm not familiar with the Professor Layton games, but that guy doesn't seem to be the brawling type.

I'm sure some would say the same about Doctor Mario, R.O.B., Zelda, a random Jigglypuff, and *coughtoadcough*

 

[TheKingOfTown]

Would Layton even be practical in a fighting game? I'm not familiar with the Professor Layton games, but that guy doesn't seem to be the brawling type.

Did that stop Peach or Zelda?

 

[Croph]

Layton for Smash!

I don't know why, but for some reason I'm getting Phoenix Wright (as in MvC3) vibes just thinking about Layton in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Keep the insults out of this, golden.

What insults?

I know I posted this somewhere before with better wording but I'll try to explain it again in the context of this argument.
My other argument is that unless you're considering the games that pac-man tried to be like mario (which is not why hes unique or why people like him) hes not a fighter. His designer never made him to go around punching people with his fists. He was just supposed to be eating things.You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where pacman fits the best is in a level.

Takaya Imamura never made Captain Falcon go around punching people with his fists. He was just supposed to be driving a racecar. You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where Captain Falcon fits best is in a level.

R.O.B.'s designer never made him go around punching people with his "hands". He was just supposed to be moving blocks and tops. You're forcing him into an environment that doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where R.O.B. fits best is in a level.

Gunpei Yokoi never made Mr. Game & Watch go around hitting people with everything but the kitchen sink. He was just supposed to be juggling balls and doing simple tasks. You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where Mr. Game & Watch fits best is in a level.

Shigeru Miyamoto and Takaya Imamura never made Fox or Falco go around punching people with their fists. They were just supposed to be dogfighting in ships. You're forcing them into an environment they don't belong and does not represent them. Where Fox and Falco fit best is in a level.

Shigeru Miyamoto never made Zelda go around hitting people with magic. She was just supposed to be the helpless woman you saved. You're forcing her into an environment she doesn't belong and does not represent her. Where Zelda fits best is in a level.

....need I go on?

Before you say that's no reason for him to appear in a level rather than a playable character, I would like an explanation why the villager from animal crossing isn't a combatant.

Different situation entirely.
Sakurai has stated that the Villager is implausible as a fighter because he/she contrasts with Smash's violent image. Pac-Man has no such contrast. Especially since he's seen beating people up in a Mokujin mech in Street Fighter X Tekken. (And before you bring the mech as a point against him, the reason he's in a mech is to be ridiculous like Bad Box Art Mega Man.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

I like how no one answered my question.

Can Layton from the Professor Layton games work as a playable character in a fighting game?

 

[TheKingOfTown]

I like how no one answered my question.

Can Layton from the Professor Layton games work as a playable character in a fighting game?

Like I said. He obviously can if they can make Peach or Zelda work.
EDIT: And apparently he's good with swords and guns.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Would Layton even be practical in a fighting game? I'm not familiar with the Professor Layton games, but that guy doesn't seem to be the brawling type.

He's pretty skilled with swords and isn't too bad with guns.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Can Layton from the Professor Layton games work as a playable character in a fighting game?

As much as the series deserves recognition, I can't imagine him beating people to a pulp.

 

[Popsydoodles]

What insults?



Takaya Imamura never made Captain Falcon go around punching people with his fists. He was just supposed to be driving a racecar. You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where Captain Falcon fits best is in a level.

R.O.B.'s designer never made him go around punching people with his "hands". He was just supposed to be moving blocks and tops. You're forcing him into an environment that doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where R.O.B. fits best is in a level.

Gunpei Yokoi never made Mr. Game & Watch go around hitting people with everything but the kitchen sink. He was just supposed to be juggling balls and doing simple tasks. You're forcing him into an environment he doesn't belong in and does not represent him. Where Mr. Game & Watch fits best is in a level.

Shigeru Miyamoto and Takaya Imamura never made Fox or Falco go around punching people with their fists. They were just supposed to be dogfighting in ships. You're forcing them into an environment they don't belong and does not represent them. Where Fox and Falco fit best is in a level.

Shigeru Miyamoto never made Zelda go around hitting people with magic. She was just supposed to be the helpless woman you saved. You're forcing her into an environment she doesn't belong and does not represent her. Where Zelda fits best is in a level.

....need I go on?




Different situation entirely.
Sakurai has stated that the Villager is implausible as a fighter because he/she contrasts with Smash's violent image. Pac-Man has no such contrast. Especially since he's seen beating people up in a Mokujin mech in Street Fighter X Tekken. (And before you bring the mech as a point against him, the reason he's in a mech is to be ridiculous like Bad Box Art Mega Man.)

This is why i don't understand sakurai's statement about a character not fitting. He obviously made these characters fit. Why can't he do that with others?

I like how no one answered my question.

Can Layton from the Professor Layton games work as a playable character in a fighting game?

He can fence. thats about all i know

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sure some would say the same about Doctor Mario, R.O.B., Zelda, a random Jigglypuff, and *coughtoadcough*

All arguments about Jigglypuff not being fit as a fighter should have died after the first time I posted this.

 

[Deleted member]

Did that stop Peach?

You srs?



Peach is way more badass than people give her credit. She's canonically an incredibly powerful mage, more powerful than Zelda actually (at least according to Death Battle), and Zelda is a goddess (descendent? haven't finished Skyward Sword yet...). There's a reason Bowser always kidnaps her, and it's not cause he wants to have kids with her (he already has kids remember?), it's cause she's the only thing holding the Kingdom together...

As to WHY she allows to get herself kidnapped, well, it should be obvious she's willing to get kidnapped without any resistance.

Also, Peach fanart is sexy as ****! If only there were skins for P:M to make her look more like this...

 

[Shorts]

THAT POKEMON ISN'T A FIGHTER!

 

[Deleted member]

Death Battle was the same thing that said a stupid Pony would beat a Transformer and severely crippled Batman by not letting him do what makes him the Goddamn Batman; prepare for his fight.
No **** Batman will lose against Spider-Man if he is not given time to prepare; but that's beside the point. Batman ALWAYS prepares.

 

[ChronoBound]

The only third-party character I want is Mega Man.

I would love it if Crono or a Castlevania character showed up (either Alucard or Simon Belmont), though those two would never happen.

No Namco characters excite me or interest me.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Death Battle was the same thing that said a stupid Pony would beat a Transformer and severely crippled Batman by not letting him do what makes him the Goddamn Batman; prepare for his fight.
No **** Batman will lose against Spider-Man if he is not given time to prepare; but that's beside the point. Batman ALWAYS prepares.

Well, to be fair, Starscream is an idiot, and RD is rediculously over powered. And prep would be hardly any different, since Spidey would get some too, thus making the point irrelevent.

BUT ON TOPIC...

If we got a joke character, who would you expect?

 

[Deleted member]

Death Battle was the same thing that said a stupid Pony would beat a Transformer and severely crippled Batman by not letting him do what makes him the Goddamn Batman; prepare for his fight.
No **** Batman will lose against Spider-Man if he is not given time to prepare; but that's beside the point. Batman ALWAYS prepares.

Death Battle also made Goku lose to Superman, not my a little like it should be, but by a LONG shot.

BULL**** I SAY!!!

That aside, I've heard other people cite Peach as a powerful mage prior to Death Battle. Also, DB also work hard to get canon info when they state it, even if they skim over important things like they did for Goku.

SSJ3 IS GALAXY BUSTER DAMMIT!!!

LOOK, let me think that Peach is a cool and powerful mage with an important role, not a helpless Damsel in Distress like she's portrayed in the Mario games. Well, didn't Peach get her own game? Maybe I should give it a run...