Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

You are right that popularity is popularity, BUT if you were to listen to a particular audience, who do you listen to? With Earthbound, do I pick Jeff because that's who the Smash fans - most of which have never played Earthbound - want? Or, do I take a look and see who the actual fans of Earthbound want? It could be very well that the demands of the Smash fanbase line up with the Earthbound fanbase, or not.

How are you sure Jeff is who they want, if you don't mind me asking.

Likewise, let's look at Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Both the Marvel and Capcom fanbases had widely different character preferences. The Capcom fans mostly wanted the return of some characters from MvC2 like Psylocke, Venom, and Rogue. However, to the Marvel fans, these characters hadn't been all that relevant since the 90's. The Marvel fans, meaning those that read the comics, had a much different set of characters in mind. In fact, the characters that did show up by UMvC3 more or less lined up with what the Marvel fans wanted even if there were some that seem like somewhat "promotional" choices like Rocket Raccoon whose Guardians of the Galaxy movie is due next year.

This is what confuses me about the mindset of the developers.
If Rocket Raccoon was to serve as advertisement for a movie years after the game, why didn't they add Lizard to advertise for the new Spider-Man movie that would be released a little more than half a year after the release of Ultimate? (Unless RR was advertisement for the Guardians' appearances in the Avengers show, though that's a separate issue entirely.) I mean, they planned Doc Ock and he couldn't work and Venom would not be added unless it was the anti-hero soldier Flash Thompson version, so Lizard could have filled the Spider-Man villain void (assuming Green Goblin couldn't work).

Though I'm rambling a bit over something unrelated to Smash. Forgive me.

 

[Big-Cat]

How are you sure Jeff is who they want, if you don't mind me asking.

I remember there being some requests for Jeff following Brawl's release, but I might be wrong as that was five years ago. Likewise, the Earthbound fanbase was more for Claus, Porky, and Kumatora from what I can recall, but I haven't bothered to check there in a long time.

This is what confuses me about the mindset of the developers.
If Rocket Raccoon was to serve as advertisement for a movie years after the game, why didn't they add Lizard to advertise for the new Spider-Man movie that would be released a little more than half a year after the release of Ultimate? (Unless RR was advertisement for the Guardians' appearances in the Avengers show, though that's a separate issue entirely.) I mean, they planned Doc Ock and he couldn't work and Venom would not be added unless it was the anti-hero soldier Flash Thompson version, so Lizard could have filled the Spider-Man villain void (assuming Green Goblin couldn't work).

Though I'm rambling a bit over something unrelated to Smash. Forgive me.

Rocky's appearance may have been somewhat related to the GotG movie coming up, but that's just a theory, nothing was confirmed whether or not appearances were advertising based on Marvel's side or not. Looking at his publication history, he was definitely recent in terms of appearances in the comics. Anyway, the Lizard or any of the other Spider-Man villains may not have brought anything new enough to the table to justify their appearance. Rocky, on the other hand, is pretty much a one of a kind character in the game. One of which I'd love to play if Marvel wasn't filled with BS - Morridoom FTW.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not saying in place of ol' Rocky, who ironically I didn't initially hate like others did. (Though I was the same way with M.O.D.O.K. with his reveal; guess I just like the troll/underdog characters.) I'm just saying, if they were planning on advertising a movie years later, why not also advertise a movie closer in the horizon?

As for ol' Lizzie himself, I've always pictured him as a bit of a rushdown and a summoner (since he has control over reptiles IIRC), while it may not be the most unique idea, it could work (or at least to me, but then again what do I know? I'm not a big competitive fighting game guy; I tend to suck horribly).

 

[Snu?]

First off, the reason Mewtwo, Roy, and the rest of the characters that got cut from Brawl was because people were complaining that they didn't want the so called "clones." A vocal group would have whined that Mewtwo = Lucario, Roy = Marth, Dixie = Diddy, etc.

If we're talking about FE characters, Marth is in for sure, Roy maybe (though I doubt it) and Ike is most likely going to get cut.If the pattern from game to game is followed, there will be a new FE character coming for Smash 4. But enough FE talk.

The series that need more character reps: Metroid, F-Zero, Kid Icarus
They all only have one character representative. We could get some Ridley, Goroh/Black Shadow, EGGPLANT WIZARD/Palutena/Medusa

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not saying in place of ol' Rocky, who ironically I didn't initially hate like others did. (Though I was the same way with M.O.D.O.K. with his reveal; guess I just like the troll/underdog characters.) I'm just saying, if they were planning on advertising a movie years later, why not also advertise a movie closer in the horizon?

As for ol' Lizzie himself, I've always pictured him as a bit of a rushdown and a summoner (since he has control over reptiles IIRC), while it may not be the most unique idea, it could work (or at least to me, but then again what do I know? I'm not a big competitive fighting game guy; I tend to suck horribly).

If advertising had been a factor, Marvel might've been looking at things in the long run regarding its character picks. For the Lizard, that archetype is, as far as I know so someone confirm this, is filled by Strider Hiryu who not only had a moveset already from MvC2 but was easily the most requested Capcom character save for Megaman (though they say Megaman wasn't requested much <_<).

 

[lobotheduck21]

mewto equals lucario, ah aura sphere/shadow ball makes them a clone argument at it's finest

also not like dixie has hair

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not like it'll save this place for the derp flood.

No what I mean is that this Roster Discussion Thread would be locked, and a new one would be made in hopes of starting over fresh.

 

[Opossum]

First off, the reason Mewtwo, Roy, and the rest of the characters that got cut from Brawl was because people were complaining that they didn't want the so called "clones." A vocal group would have whined that Mewtwo = Lucario, Roy = Marth, Dixie = Diddy, etc.

If we're talking about FE characters, Marth is in for sure, Roy maybe (though I doubt it) and Ike is most likely going to get cut.If the pattern from game to game is followed, there will be a new FE character coming for Smash 4. But enough FE talk.

The series that need more character reps: Metroid, F-Zero, Kid Icarus
They all only have one character representative. We could get some Ridley, Goroh/Black Shadow, EGGPLANT WIZARD/Palutena/Medusa

Must...stay calm. Breath, Opossum, breath.

...

There is no pattern that justifies that Ike will get cut. Mewtwo is nowhere near a clone of Lucario (hell, Mario is more of a Kirby clone than Mewtwo is to Lucario). And technically Metroid has two reps. Sakurai does indeed count Zero Suit Samus.

Okay, I'm better now. In other news, I've been playing a second Awakening file, and this time no one died/didn't get recruited, so I finally got Donnel, Gaius, and didn't kill Olivia (which ironically enough, my Avatar wound up marrying this time [even more ironic that she now has Lethality as a skill since she was reclassed]). My conscience is clear once more...

On a similar note, an Assassin type character would be cool to see in Smash, FE or not.

 

[SmashShadow]

First off, the reason Mewtwo, Roy, and the rest of the characters that got cut from Brawl was because people were complaining that they didn't want the so called "clones." A vocal group would have whined that Mewtwo = Lucario, Roy = Marth, Dixie = Diddy, etc.

If we're talking about FE characters, Marth is in for sure, Roy maybe (though I doubt it) and Ike is most likely going to get cut.If the pattern from game to game is followed, there will be a new FE character coming for Smash 4. But enough FE talk.

The series that need more character reps: Metroid, F-Zero, Kid Icarus
They all only have one character representative. We could get some Ridley, Goroh/Black Shadow, EGGPLANT WIZARD/Palutena/Medusa

First, anyone with half a brain knows Lucario and Mewtwo are not clones in the slightest having only 2 MOVES IN COMMON! Check for yourself if you think I'm lying.
Secondly, your argument against Roy in Brawl doesn't really hold up as they added Toon Link in...
Thirdly, I don't really think you can form a pattern on FE yet due to their only being 1 transition so far(Melee to Brawl).

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario and Toon Zelda/"Toon Sheik" were not cut for such a reason. They were merely among the low priority characters that were seen as expendable if time would not allow production on every character Sakurai planned on. (Jigglypuff, Toon Link and Wolf were also on this list; they were just the ones that survived).

Dixie Kong is not on this list; she was initially a tag-partner to Diddy and complications in making the tag-team work (it was a unique system where they would alternate attacks by tagging each other in) resulted in Sakurai having to scrap Dixie and make Diddy a solo act.

The only one that's up for grabs in "pra_mai", and that's simply because there is no factual information about who that is.

EDIT: Aside from that, Mewtwo and Lucario are barely similar and 1 game does not make a pattern.

 

[FlareHabanero]

On a similar note, an Assassin type character would be cool to see in Smash

Squid Assassin Nomad for Smash.

 

[Croph]

Following patterns isn't a trustworthy thing to do as we only have three games to look at. I mean, sure I guess some do exist (like G&W and ROB's inclusion), however they can always be broken. If we do believe some "patterns" it might lead to ridiculous things, imo. For example, going by this logic, Pokemon will be guaranteed 8 characters, while Star Fox will have 4. Also, Ike will be cut and replaced by the current Lord or whatever and Kirby will receive an additional 2 reps.

 

[Opossum]

Squid Assassin Nomad for Smash.

I mean, seriously. Nintendo doesn't really have many Assassins, do they? I mean, there's the Squid guy, there's Leon Powalski, and there are any Myrmidon that can be upgraded to the Assassin class in Fire Emblem (...Lon'Qu for god tier...). Just off the top of my head. I probably missed some more. Are there any others?

 

[Croph]

Other Nintendo assassins? Damn, I think I know of one...he's on the tip of my tongue but I can't remember >.> lol might have to do some research

 

[Big-Cat]

No what I mean is that this Roster Discussion Thread would be locked, and a new one would be made in hopes of starting over fresh.

Even then, the derp flood will happen. By place, I didn't mean this thread, but the whole forum in general.

Technically speaking, ninja can be assassins so there's Sheik and Impa.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The best Nintendo assassin:

Also my second choice for an F-Zero rep after Deathborn with Ganondorf's moveset.
I could see Pico working similar to Colonel Radec in PSABR, with knives, and a sniper (in GX he actually used a sniper rifle in his special video).

The badassery.

 

[---]

Playing catch up here.

Damn... You've all been at this for quite a while for Roy to be the inly relevant FE character... Now I see why you're all so desperate for info...

Also, why was Palutena vs. Medusa ever a debate? Seems prettyobvious to me who the better chouce is and I've never played a single KI game.

I only have about two years on me at this point, there's a couple people here with 2 1/2 - 3 years due to the old old thread, a LOT has changed since then. Though I would argue us vets don't complain as much as some of the newer people around here.

Yeah it was, was mostly just Me and Oasis having at it around the time of Uprising's first delay with a few people talking sides here and there. We of course hugged it out in the end.

I'll be sure that this thread gets a new replacement once E3 begins...

Sounds good, though once E3 comes around I think you have your work cut out for you Mario_Sonic, where have the other mods for this forum been?

First off, the reason Mewtwo, Roy, and the rest of the characters that got cut from Brawl was because people were complaining that they didn't want the so called "clones." A vocal group would have whined that Mewtwo = Lucario, Roy = Marth, Dixie = Diddy, etc.

If we're talking about FE characters, Marth is in for sure, Roy maybe (though I doubt it) and Ike is most likely going to get cut.If the pattern from game to game is followed, there will be a new FE character coming for Smash 4. But enough FE talk.

First things first, get rid of the "pattern" mentality.

 

[Snu?]

What I've learned today: don't bother sharing your opinion in social threads.

 

[PixelChaos]

captain Linebeck. Done deal

 

[FlareHabanero]

What I've learned today: don't bother sharing your opinion in social threads.

It's one thing to post an opinion, and another to spread fallacy information.

 

[Opossum]

I can't believe I forgot about Pico...that's another Assassin for the list.

 

[Croph]

I almost forgot about Pico as well lol. Pico is pretty badass, as seen in his secret video. Makes me wonder that he'd make a good AT.

 

[Big-Cat]

What I've learned today: don't bother sharing your opinion in social threads.

I've learned that you can teach an old dog new tricks, but you can't teach Madonna to act.

 

[lobotheduck21]

@snu, it's an internet forum, you really think that people aren't going to try to argue with you when they evidence/reasoning to counter act your opinion

if not then now you have learned something

 

[Popsydoodles]

So would it be cool with everyone if Marth has a Marht costume as an alt in smash?

BTW Habanero this belongs in a museum. Can I get one on canvas?

 

[Vintage Creep]

I want every character to have a derp alternate.

Kriby, Mauro, Gigi, Ganondork, Klin, Kapichu.

 

[Opossum]

Marht is now the new Non-Specific Action Figure. I fully approve of this.

 

[Arcadenik]

You are right that popularity is popularity, BUT if you were to listen to a particular audience, who do you listen to? With Earthbound, do I pick Jeff because that's who the Smash fans - most of which have never played Earthbound - want? Or, do I take a look and see who the actual fans of Earthbound want? It could be very well that the demands of the Smash fanbase line up with the Earthbound fanbase, or not.

Likewise, let's look at Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Both the Marvel and Capcom fanbases had widely different character preferences. The Capcom fans mostly wanted the return of some characters from MvC2 like Psylocke, Venom, and Rogue. However, to the Marvel fans, these characters hadn't been all that relevant since the 90's. The Marvel fans, meaning those that read the comics, had a much different set of characters in mind. In fact, the characters that did show up by UMvC3 more or less lined up with what the Marvel fans wanted even if there were some that seem like somewhat "promotional" choices like Rocket Raccoon whose Guardians of the Galaxy movie is due next year.

Sometimes I wonder why Chrom is supported or is opposed and by whom.

Fire Emblem fans - do they support Chrom because they liked him in Awakening? do they oppose Chrom because they favored other characters in Awakening?

Smash fans - do they support Chrom because they expect him to get in? do they oppose Chrom because they view him as a threat for Ike's or Roy's spot?

In my case, I support Chrom because I expect him to get in. I have never played Awakening.

Also, I remember there were some people asking for Kat & Ana, Jeff and Knuckle Joe for SSB4 because they were Assist Trophies. Isaac, Lyn, and Samurai Goroh are still requested, albeit not as much as in the pre-Brawl days. Saki is the only one whose popularity in the West skyrocketed after his appearance as an Assist Trophy... before that, I don't think many people in the West heard of him.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

The best Nintendo assassin:

Spoiler

Fix'd for you.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Nah, Pico's boss.
I mean look at him, he's a Koopa but he doesn't mess around.

 

[Popsydoodles]

@shin

Everytime I look at your wishlist and see lloyd at the end makes me think of what a BA he could be in sm4sh. Is everyone here aware of who lloyd is and what he's capable of or do most just know him as some character from some JRPG?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

@shin

Everytime I look at your wishlist and see lloyd at the end makes me think of what a BA he could be in sm4sh. Is everyone here aware of who lloyd is and what he's capable of or do most just know him as some character from some JRPG?

I know who he is. My sister was a big fan of ToS back in the day, so I'm well aware of what his capabilities and I think he'd be quite fun to use.

 

[Arcadenik]

@shin

Everytime I look at your wishlist and see lloyd at the end makes me think of what a BA he could be in sm4sh. Is everyone here aware of who lloyd is and what he's capable of or do most just know him as some character from some JRPG?

Well, according to the director or producer who is telling the fans of Tales series to beg Sakurai to put Lloyd in Smash 4, Tales isn't that well known in the West... he wants Lloyd in Smash 4 so that Tales would become popular in the West.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I want every character to have a derp alternate.

Kriby, Mauro, Gigi, Ganondork, Klin, Kapichu.

(I'm having more fun with this then I should...)

 

[Vintage Creep]

Ganondork is perfect

 

[Popsydoodles]

man i remember being like 12 years old in a gamestop and seeing TOS on the used games shelf and was like this looks cool but I ended up getting viewtiful joe or something. Every time I went back to that gamestop it was never there. Maybe like 3 years later I remembered that game and bought it on ebay. So far one of the best purchases I've ever made. I just recently played through it again... maaaaaan such a great game and series.

View attachment 358

(I'm having more fun with this then I should...)

When will this art be up for auction? I have my wallet open and ready.

Also this art reminds me...was Link made left-handed in SSBB or did they do the right-handed thing again with TP link?

 

[SmashShadow]

Of course we have assassins.

 

[ChronoBound]

Anyway, Roy's inclusion just seems to be more of a dumb thing than a good thing at this rate we're seeing things to me. I could forgive Chrom to be semi-clone, but Roy stretches it now.

Actually I would say its the opposite for most people. Most people would forgive a semi-clone Roy since he has already been a clone in Smash Bros., while people would be far more harsh on a semi-clone Chrom because he would be yet another "blue-haired swordsmen", I think even if Chrom ended up have more unique A-moves than semi-clone Roy that more people would be harsh on Chrom.

As to the the whole "Roy is only popular because of Smash Bros.", in Japan, Roy is popular for helping revive the FE series in Japan, from people who grew up on the GBA FE series (Roy is considered the face of them), and from Hasha no Tsurigi (the FE6 tie-in manga). Secondly, a very large portion of Ike's popularity is owed to Brawl. Ike's games sold poorly relative to the rest of the series.

Secondly, there is already a slew of characters in Smash Bros. in which they probably only have popularity because of Smash Bros. Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Ness, Sheik, Falco, Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Lucas, Lucario, Ike, and ROB could owe a large portion of their fanbases to appearing in 64/Melee/Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I disagree on Ike and Lucario though. But the rest you're right with.

Habanero please draw the whole Brawl cast man! These are TOO good.

 

[Big-Cat]

When will this art be up for auction? I have my wallet open and ready.

Also this art reminds me...was Link made left-handed in SSBB or did they do the right-handed thing again with TP link?

Link was left-handed in Brawl. The only right-handed ones are the Wii TP Link and Skyward Sword Link for gameplay reasons.