Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

Just looked up about digital pets, and it's a sub-genre of simulation video games.
Ergo, they are video games; case closed.

No, they are not read on to find out why.
Also, I'm gonna need some sauce on that claim as I tried to look it up myself and didn't find anything to suggest the same.

Instead I found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_pet

A digital pet (also known as a virtual pet or artificial pet[1]) is a type of artificial human companion. They are usually kept for companionship or enjoyment. People may keep a digital pet in lieu of a real pet.

Now, there are virtual pet, videogames, but that isn't refering to the handheld Tamagotchi or Digimon.

It refers to these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Virtual_pet_video_games

Which are videogames, that complement the virtual pet component. Your move.

And "head of Bandai"? You are aware that the game company is now Namco Bandai Games (which is the company helping with Smash 4), right? It handles all the games for Namco and Bandai franchises, which means they own the rights to the Digimon franchise, since it started as a game, whether you choose to count the virtual pets or refer to Digital Monster Ver. S: Digimon Tamers as the first "real" game. So yeah....much more feasible to imagine than Bayonetta, but equally feasible to KOS-MOS.

Regardless of it being NamcoBandai now, the team is split and subdivided into different groups. It's not a conglomerous hivemind, and different developers take preference over different IPs. So, no, actually given the fact that the Tales team is in charge, the two with the highest chances are PacMan, and a Tales character. Everything else is out the backburner. Also, keep in mind Namco bought Bandai, they did not merge, nor was it the other way around. Therefore, it is safe to assume Namco IPs take precedence over Bandai IPs. So no, KOS-MOS STILL has priority over Bandai's Digimon.

And Bayonetta is nigh unrelated to the Digimon topic, making a comparison between "who has a higher chance Digimon, or Bayonetta" is impossible to properly debate as there is not enough information and it deals with two unrelated companies. At that point, it simply boild down to opinions and personal preferences all of which differ. Therefore, in MY opinion Bayonetta still has a higher shot than Digimon. In YOUR opinion, it is the opposite. And we will never agree on that topic. End of story.

EDIT: If virtual pets don't count, then by all means, the following things:

Should not have happened.

The Game & Watch "games" were not "real" video games, similar to the virtual pets.
And if you try to use the "well, it's Nintendo" excuse, then by all means, we should have had Ash Ketchum instead of Pokemon Trainer since rules can be broken for Nintendo characters.

G&W is a videogame, albeit a very simplistic one, but Pong is also a very simplistic videogame.

Tamagotchi on the other hand is not. Look up the Wikipedia, and you'll notice it's constantly referred to as a "toy" or "digital pet." Not a videogame. There are Tamagotchi videogames, but the actual pet is NOT a game.

Can one of you folks that love Digimon finally make a damn support thread for it already? Any time someone tries to put this thread more on the topic of roster discussions, someone starts talking about Digimon again and we get another page filled with that.
There's plenty of support threads for unlikely and near-impossible characters, so what's stopping you from making one for characters you consider one of the major contenders for the Namco-Bandai spot?
It might give the rest of us an idea of wth you're talking about and how it's supposed to work.

For the love of God... THIS ^^^ please.

Game and Watch is not a virtual pet series that's for sure. It may use LCD technology similar to a calculator, but it's defiantly not a virtual pet simulator similar to Tamagachi. It's instead a series of arcade styled game, where the objective is to get the highest score by performing different actions depending on the game.

Exactly, the level of interaction is what matters the MOST when considering what a videogame is, I mean, it's in the goddamn NAME for crying out loud.

vid·e·o game
Noun:
A game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a television screen or display.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Video_Game_Design/Introduction/What_is_a_video_game
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Video_Game_Design/Introduction/What_is_a_video_game

-Games exist only by being played; they are interactive.

The Competition definition holds that games are entirely about players competing against each other, to be the first or the best at something,

(The challenge in the game makes the game. Building blocks is playing in a different form, driven by personal targets to create the outcome. A game has set rules, and usually has a beginning, middle and an end, whereas playing mostly starts and ends at your own will without rules controlling the way you manipulate or use your play things. Playing is 100% down to you. A game is set out to be played in a particular manner.)

Games will train and educate people, providing new skills and knowledge they can use outside of the game.

To sum it up, by definition a videogame, must have at least ONE of the following things:
>Immersion
>Challenge
>Competition
>Post-game experience or education

Virtual Pets have none of the above, therefore, they are NOT videogames. Visual Novels. by this definition can actually be classified as videogames as they have: Post-game Education/Experience, and Immersion. However, I still stand by the notion that VNs are more akin to books and less to videogames.

Anyway, this isn't directed at you, but everyone else in here, I'm just supporting your view with extra information.

 

[Deleted member]

i say virtual pets are essentially a poor mans game boy. i mean there's really nothing about them to suggest that they aren't a type of video game. you pick em up, play with the creature in it, feed it etc. there are plenty of games like that.

by definition: A video game is an electronic GAME that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video display device. so by that definition Virtual pets are considered video games because a human interacts with an electronic game and visual feedback is a result on said device so yeah it counts.

Problem with that is, VPs aren't actually games. Take a moment to think what constitutes a game. Or simply read my previous post. If you can post sauce that proves VPs are actually categorized as games, then by all means.

Yes, they're video games. They're the first handhelds.

Gonna need sauce on that claim Star Fox...

Fact: They are video games.

This one too. Where are you pulling this information from? Your ***?

 

[Deleted member]

Digimon SSB4 Discussion Thread

Please take all discussions relating to Digimon to here.

 

[Frostwraith]

vid·e·o game
Noun:
A game played by electronically manipulating images produced by a computer program on a television screen or display.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Video_Game_Design/Introduction/What_is_a_video_game
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Video_Game_Design/Introduction/What_is_a_video_game






To sum it up, by definition a videogame, must have at least ONE of the following things:
>Immersion
>Challenge
>Competition
>Post-game experience or education

Virtual Pets have none of the above, therefore, they are NOT videogames. Visual Novels. by this definition can actually be classified as videogames as they have: Post-game Education/Experience, and Immersion. However, I still stand by the notion that VNs are more akin to books and less to videogames.

Anyway, this isn't directed at you, but everyone else in here, I'm just supporting your view with extra information.

hmmm... can't argue with this.

so, it seems that Digimon... *puts sunglasses*
...have no chance in SSB4. 8D

anyway, since there's already a thread dedicated to this franchise, we can take this discussion there.

so, what other characters may have a chance? We've talked about Bayonetta and Namco Bandai characters, to which I have given an opinion on the subject, so what else?

I'll be honest here, with all those support threads, I don't think there is much left to discuss about new entries in the roster, unless new games, featuring new characters, come out. I think some characters have been discussed to death already, so... I don't think there is much to add now.

 

[Deleted member]

hmmm... can't argue with this.

so, it seems that Digimon... *puts sunglasses*
...have no chance in SSB4. 8D

anyway, since there's already a thread dedicated to this franchise, we can take this discussion there.

so, what other characters may have a chance? We've talked about Bayonetta and Namco Bandai characters, to which I have given an opinion on the subject, so what else?

I'll be honest here, with all those support threads, I don't think there is much left to discuss about new entries in the roster, unless new games, featuring new characters, come out. I think some characters have been discussed to death already, so... I don't think there is much to add now.

Well, we could discuss Travis' chances, as he's another character I personally Support.

Also, we could discuss the odds of Snake and Sonic returning.

And, we could discuss concepts such as custom movepools for the removal of clones. Which characters might be cut. The character rations. How many Mario characters can we expect? How many Zelda? I personally hope for 4 Fire Emblem characters.

We could also discuss how the roster will be organized. I saw a neat thread about grouping the characters by franchise. As in, you select the Franchise, eg. Mario, Zelda, and that opens a list, where you select the character. It was very neat. Plus having different "Universes" like that, certainly vouches for the idea the game might be called Super Smash Bros. Universe, as it gives it a 'U' to mesh with the 'U' in WiiU.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Digimon has a form of immersion. It's called taking care of that particular "pet" as if it were your own. It's no different from a Sims game. Oh, and btw, you can connect with other players to "compete" with them.

Digimon are fully viable and you don't know anything about the actual series, as you made it clear by not doing any actual research. Taking it to the other thread now, though.

BTW, the first full video game(if you don't count the V-Pet) was on the Saturn, a year before the Anime.

I still want to see Ridley.

 

[Second Power]

Well, we could discuss Travis' chances, as he's another character I personally Support.

Also, we could discuss the odds of Snake and Sonic returning.

And, we could discuss concepts such as custom movepools for the removal of clones. Which characters might be cut. The character rations. How many Mario characters can we expect? How many Zelda? I personally hope for 4 Fire Emblem characters.

The primary problem with Travis is that Sakurai said he was limiting Third Party franchises in Smash. I believe his creator it would be cool to see him in Smash (If you want, I can find the article), but the descision ultimately falls on Sakurai. He has Megaman (if Capcom would stop trying to phase him out), and a potential namco rep (if, as previously argued, they ask) to contend with, as well. I feel like 5 third party reps would be too much. If we assume a potential roster of 50 (discounting transformations and etc.), then 5 characters would make 10% of the roster. 3 is a more fair number, in my opinion, since that sets the bar at around 5% of the roster. If 10% of the roster goes to guest characters, that seems like a bit too much.

Snake is (almost) definitely returning. Sakurai is friends with his creator, and I highly doubt Sakurai would do that to a friend. Of course, they're both mature adults, so if Sakurai has a genuine reason for wanting to disclude Snake in Sm4sh, he could. But simply because? No chance. Sonic is more iffy. But, it'd be like Mewtwo's disclusion. Only, more justifiable and a lot more noise.

Custom movesets... If I get a Wolf-Fox, I'd be happy. But, that'd require being able to modify a character's weight, which is unlikely. Though, it could be justifiable. A bayonet blaster like Wolf's is probably heavier then Fox's. ...On second thought, that's pretty weak. On cuts, I really wouldn't expect many. I know I say this far too much, but it's true. Sakurai makes the roster. In Melee, he was under a lot of stress from the higher-ups to make a larger roster, which led to clones. He clearly is trying to avoid doing this again, which is why he removed as many pointless ones as he could (Dr. Mario, Pichu) and modified some (Falco, Gannondorf). There are argueably no more direct clones on the roster, and the Smash fanbase is argueably more okay with the aforementioned semi-clones. Just look at Roy. Therefore, I'm proposing no cuts whatsoever.

In addition, I found something interesting regarding Little Mac's chances. Here. A little old for sure (Pre-Melee days), but it comes directly from Sakurai, and I think it still matters. Translated, one of the lines say "And skill is few... urban champion" . Yeah, Bing translate stinks. Anyway, Sakurai doesn't think Little Mac has enough moveset potential to make it in. Think he's changed his mind since then? I'm going to say no. Several ATs are ones Sakurai presumebly wanted to include in Smash but couldn't come up with movesets for. To use some examples, Starfy, Devil, and Tingle. Little Mac may fall into this category. Ice Climbers has shown that Sakurai will include anyone he likes, regardless of popularity. Sakurai has shown to be partial to Little Mac, and given the above quote combined with the fact that Little Mac is only represented by an AT, it seems he still believes (at least, during Brawl developement) Little Mac lacks interesting move set potential. Comments?

 

[---]

In addition, I found something interesting regarding Little Mac's chances. Here. A little old for sure (Pre-Melee days), but it comes directly from Sakurai, and I think it still matters. Translated, one of the lines say "And skill is few... urban champion" . Yeah, Bing translate stinks. Anyway, Sakurai doesn't think Little Mac has enough moveset potential to make it in. Think he's changed his mind since then? I'm going to say no. Several ATs are ones Sakurai presumebly wanted to include in Smash but couldn't come up with movesets for. To use some examples, Starfy, Devil, and Tingle. Little Mac may fall into this category. Ice Climbers has shown that Sakurai will include anyone he likes, regardless of popularity. Sakurai has shown to be partial to Little Mac, and given the above quote combined with the fact that Little Mac is only represented by an AT, it seems he still believes (at least, during Brawl developement) Little Mac lacks interesting move set potential. Comments?

Little Mac has plenty of moveset options (Jabs, Uppercuts, the Star system, Giga Mac, could even borrow some from other PO characters), he certainly more than Marth (ever play FE1 or 3?), Falcon (duh), or arguably the Star Fox characters (before Adventures). Yes it'll be simple like a lot of characters but that doesn't mean that it's bad. Urban Champion is nothing but button mashing a single basic punch.

Starfy is also very much like that, but because of his body, which is even more stubby than Kirby, he doesn't fit into the Smash environment as well (though I still will admit he has a shot). Tingle is just plain not a fighting character. The Devil, I honestly don't know why you even mentioned him.

Little Mac I'd bet all my money on was an AT for similar reasons as Takamaru, who has an even larger moveset potential and wasn't even an AT, which was that Sakurai was waiting for a new game in the series/a resurgence of interest in his series. Now we have that as well as more for Mac to draw from.

 

[Deleted member]

The primary problem with Travis is that Sakurai said he was limiting Third Party franchises in Smash. I believe his creator it would be cool to see him in Smash (If you want, I can find the article), but the descision ultimately falls on Sakurai.

Yeah, that's the thing. I honestly haven't played No More Heroes yet, I've been wanting to for the longest time, but it's been ages since I sold my Wii, and I haven't gotten around to buying a new one yet. Still, his character design, and attitude are awesome, not something you come across very often these days in Vidya and Animu. Personally I'd love to see him in, a mix and blend of his Beam Katana, and some Pro-Wrestling make for a hilarious character. However, a lot of the fans say they'd rather not see him in, as he'd have to be toned down a lot, and that takes away from his character. But ultimately, it falls on fan demand, vs. Sakurai's decision. If he gets enough support, he's got a shot. However, what I find odd, is that even though I've known about the series for ages, many people consider the series a hidden gem on the Wii. I was always of the impression they were more popular than that. Regardless, his inclusion would certainly bring variety to the roster.

He has Megaman (if Capcom would stop trying to phase him out),

This man, I don't understand what's the deal with Capcom and Megaman as of late, but pic related certainly describes it very well:

If we get Megaman, I want classic. Seriously **** X. Never been a fan of him really. He's like the more mature and "edgy" Megaman, and that takes away from the charm. He just strikes me as a generic tryhard protag.

I feel like 5 third party reps would be too much. If we assume a potential roster of 50 (discounting transformations and etc.), then 5 characters would make 10% of the roster. 3 is a more fair number, in my opinion, since that sets the bar at around 5% of the roster. If 10% of the roster goes to guest characters, that seems like a bit too much.

Perhaps, that all depends on Sakurai's goals with the game. I DID read he mentioned that people shouldn't be hopeful about having many 3rd party characters. Going by that, then your prediction is on the money. However, I hope he changes his mind, and we can squeeze in a couple more.

Snake is (almost) definitely returning. Sakurai is friends with his creator, and I highly doubt Sakurai would do that to a friend. Of course, they're both mature adults, so if Sakurai has a genuine reason for wanting to disclude Snake in Sm4sh, he could. But simply because? No chance. Sonic is more iffy. But, it'd be like Mewtwo's disclusion. Only, more justifiable and a lot more noise.

Interesting stance. I normally hear the opposite. With people wanting Snake gone to make room for Simon, and Sonic being guaranteed a return. I hope you're right on this one as a Snake Main in Brawl. Not to mention a huge Metal Gear fan. I couldn't care less about Sonic to be honest, especially if it's that green-eyed abomination that returns and not the superior Classic Sonic. I'd like to hear more on WHY you think this is the case. I mean outside of Snake, I agree that Kojima and Sakurai are bros, and Snake's return depends on that bond and whether Kojima wants to see him back in, or maybe if Nintendo forces Snake out to make room for a better business dealing. However, looking at it that way, shunning Metal Gear, for a different franchise is a dumb thing to do. If Nintendo plays their cards right, we might see a port of MGR and MGS:GZ on the WiiU.

Custom movesets... If I get a Wolf-Fox, I'd be happy. But, that'd require being able to modify a character's weight, which is unlikely. Though, it could be justifiable. A bayonet blaster like Wolf's is probably heavier then Fox's. ...On second thought, that's pretty weak. On cuts, I really wouldn't expect many. I know I say this far too much, but it's true. Sakurai makes the roster. In Melee, he was under a lot of stress from the higher-ups to make a larger roster, which led to clones. He clearly is trying to avoid doing this again, which is why he removed as many pointless ones as he could (Dr. Mario, Pichu) and modified some (Falco, Gannondorf). There are argueably no more direct clones on the roster, and the Smash fanbase is argueably more okay with the aforementioned semi-clones. Just look at Roy. Therefore, I'm proposing no cuts whatsoever.

Custom movesets would be a great way to do away with clone characters. Also, for example, if we get custom movesets and Alt. costumes, then you can actually remove a couple current clones like Lucas, from the roster, while still leaving him in, indirectly. Not too many people are happy with that idea, but, it's a possibility. My idea was implementing something similar to Dissidia. Maybe using the 3DS version to "develop" characters for more competitive play in the WiiU version.

In addition, I found something interesting regarding Little Mac's chances. Here. A little old for sure (Pre-Melee days), but it comes directly from Sakurai, and I think it still matters. Translated, one of the lines say "And skill is few... urban champion" . Yeah, Bing translate stinks. Anyway, Sakurai doesn't think Little Mac has enough moveset potential to make it in. Think he's changed his mind since then? I'm going to say no. Several ATs are ones Sakurai presumebly wanted to include in Smash but couldn't come up with movesets for. To use some examples, Starfy, Devil, and Tingle. Little Mac may fall into this category. Ice Climbers has shown that Sakurai will include anyone he likes, regardless of popularity. Sakurai has shown to be partial to Little Mac, and given the above quote combined with the fact that Little Mac is only represented by an AT, it seems he still believes (at least, during Brawl developement) Little Mac lacks interesting move set potential. Comments?

I agree on the Little Mac thing. I just find it hard to REALLY come up with a decent movepool, that would fit in Smash. And this is especially true for characters like Starfy and Tingle and any AC character. In fact, I think Sakurai openly stated that AC is not fit for Smash as he can't see the MC fighting. That's very important. How the lead developer feels about how characters fit in his game. Assist Trophies were made for that precise reason. To fill in the gaps for characters that didn't make the cut for one reason or another. There are a couple who might get promoted to actual characters if the conditions are right (Isaac, Lyn, Saki, etc..), but for the most part, everyone who is an Assist, will stay an Assist.

Also, I feel Assist Trophies and Bosses are a great place to put "flavor of the game" characters such as Groose and Ghirahim. I understand they are popular; but I'll be honest, I'd much rather face off against an overpowered Ghirahim Boss, than have him take up a roster slot for a playable character. Especially someone like him, will most likely not be relevant once the Next Zelda, or even SSB4 itself comes out.

That's also one thing that bugged me about Brawl, considering how many Bosses from their IPs they have to choose from, they decided to add a bunch of "ORIGINAL CONTENT DO NOT STEAL" boring bosses. I wanna see some cool inspiring Bosses. Like one (that's very unlikely by the way) that really got me excited: Imagine, fighting Death, Death from Castlevania as one of the Later bosses, especially in Boss rush mode, having to dodge his Scythe and Magic attacks, and hell, BY ALL MEANS, make him an overpowered ****! I want a goddamn challenge when fighting him. Or, how about the Yellow Devil from Megaman, doh God, that would be glorious.

Anyway, not to stray too far off-topic.
As for characters that might get cut (if any do).
My money is on Lucas, Wolf, and maybe Lucario.

Also, I assume we can all agree that out of the Kid Icarus characters, the one with the highest chance of getting in is Palutena, right?

I feel the characters that we will definitely see make the cut are:
>Mewtwo
>Chrom
>Ridley
>Palutena

The following have a decent chance, but are more dependent on unpredictable factors, and thus, will have to "fight for the spot."
>Isaac
>Matthew
>Zoroark
>Roy
>Lyn
>Shulk
>Waluigi
>Saki
>Samurai Goroh
>Takamaru

Everything else, has a slimmer chance than this, and will probably be the BIG SURPRISE. Characters like:
>King K. Rool
>Chibi Robo
>Little Mac
>Captain Rainbow
etc...

I'm sticking only to 1st party mind you, as 3rd party play by a whole different set of rules.

Lets try to break it down by franchises, if we get a 5th Mario rep, who do you think it will be? A 5th Zelda? Kirby I think is staying the same. Fire Emblem is definitely getting one more, maybe two (considering we were supposed to get 3 reps back in Brawl), the 4th one being either Roy or Lyn. Wario is staying the same. DK and Yoshi are most likely staying the same (I'm sorry but K.Rool hasn't been relevant for years).

Thoughts?

EDIT: One more thing, I've been hearing a lot of buzz and support for the Mach Rider as a character, thoughts? Think he might be our new retro character? I think we're definitely getting at least one Retro.

 

[Frostwraith]

if Mario gets a newcomer, so should Zelda and Pokémon get 5 characters. the reason is clear: those are the big three of Nintendo's franchises.

besides Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser, it's possible that we have Bowser Jr. or Toad as newcomers. Waluigi, Daisy or Rosalina are already a bit of a stretch.

for the Zelda series, Ghirahim is the best choice nowadays, Skyward Sword's release helps his chances. he was well-recieved by the fandom for being a different approach to a villain, when compared to Ganondorf. I really would like to see both Ganon and Ghirahim in the same game, as their personalities really contrast with each other.

for the Pokémon series... Pikachu and Jigglypuff are definitely staying. Pokémon Trainer is likely to return as well, but Lucario's appearence may not be possible. there's the question about Mewtwo's return and the possibility of a Gen V Pokémon as well.
how I see the Pokémon series being represented: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pokémon Trainer and either Lucario or a Gen V Pokémon. but of course, I'd be happier if there were no cuts. six representants for the Pokémon franchise wouldn't be a stretch, considering how big it is.

now... for the Fire Emblem franchise. Marth is likely returning and Ike may return as well. it is safe to assume that Chrom is appearing as well. there are also other possibilities, like Roy's return, Lyn, Hector, Ephraim, Eirika, Leaf, Celice, Celica or Micaiah. a villain would do fine. perhaps the Black Knight would do for a villain.

talking on Kid Icarus... we have Kid Icarus: Uprising, which had lots of memorable characters: Palutena, Viridi, Hades, Medusa, Magnus and Dark Pit are the best characters for Smash, albeit for different reasons each. anyway, the likeliest is Palutena, without a doubt.

the DK series still has King K. Rool and Dixie Kong as possibilities, since these are the two most significant characters. Funky Kong, however, has some following as well, but is really overshadowed by the two mentioned before.

in my opinion, the Kirby series doesn't seem to have any likely newcomers, as the three already in have much more spotlight than the rest of the characters. if Kirby does get a character, it's likely Bandana Waddle Dee, thanks to his more recent role as a playable character. good surprises from here would be Rick and Gooey.

as I see, EarthBound is unlikely to have a newcomer, but there are good picks from here: Jeff, Porky, Masked Man are good examples.

I don't think F-Zero will have a newcomer due to lack of games: the last game was released in 2004 only in Japan. so, we may expect Captain Falcon to be the sole representant of F-Zero once again.

for the Metroid series... I have no idea on what to say, really. Samus's importance overshadows every other character, except Ridley... which is... well, a controversial choice. I'm not talking much about this, neither should you. I am serious.

for retro and other smaller series, the list is large: Little Mac, Isaac, Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, Lip, Prince Sable... that's the tip of the iceberg.

on the subject of 3rd parties... Snake is more likely than what some people think with the reason being the same as the one who brought him in the first place. as for Sonic... it'll depend on how popular he still is and how demanding he still is compared to Brawl's time.

I'm not developing much more on 3rd parties, but I can also say that Namco Bandai characters may be a possibility that will more likely depend on Namco Bandai's side, rather than Sakurai's.

... I think there are a lot of possibilities in the new game. Sakurai has demonstrated interest in bringing back more retro characters, so this may be taken into account in this discussion. Pit got a new game thanks to his inclusion in Brawl, so what kind of possibilities may arise from the inclusion of other characters like he was in Brawl? this is an important question, in my point of view.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Frostwraith, I dunno about that Sonic part

I don't agree that Sonic's chances will be affected at all by how demanded he is for this game

In fact, I doubt that the blue dude with a 'tude will be demanded at all for Smash 4, let alone as hyped as he was during Brawl's time

Since he's already in, most people will assume he'll stay like most of the characters in Smash, and therefore not worry about or request him

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

With the Mario & Sonic games going strong, most wouldn't believe Sonic would be removed from Smash.

Many thought Snake would be thanks to the existence of PSASB. But they chose Raiden instead.

I don't see any that has a chance of leaving unless Sakurai says no to third parties in its entirety this time. Which I doubt since the inclusion of Snake and Sonic were severely well-met.(even if all didn't like the execution, having them in alone was awesome)

 

[Opossum]

@Manlyspirit

Why on earth do you not find K. Rool likely? Wait...you wrote relevance? Erk.

Relevance overall means important to the series. He's always been relevant. Recentness may have been what you were looking for. Not to mention, pre-Brawl development, the most recent Donkey Kong game was, correct me if I'm wrong, Jungle Beat. It didn't have Diddy Kong. By your logic, Diddy shouldn't have been in Brawl. Honestly, K. Rool has among the best chances for an appearance in my eyes. From what I remember, he was decently popular in Japan, he has strong fan support in the US, has moveset potential that rivals Nintendo's greatest, and hails from an underrepresented series that can use a new character or two.

Just my two cents.

 

[lobotheduck21]

To sum it up, by definition a videogame, must have at least ONE of the following things:
I disagreed on this
>Immersion
with a digital pet, won't it die if you feed it so in order to keep it alive wouldn't you have to be using the divice,
>Challenge
wikipedia says that you would raise them to battle with other people
>Competition
you could battle with your friends
>Post-game experience or education
it teaches pet care taking, which is more than some games
and you forgot the most important one: having fun

anyways, what do you guys think of cranky kong (he's my personal dark horse)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Cranky Kong is indeed awesome(and is the original DK). However, I'd rather have King K. Rool and Dixie Kong before him.

If only because they bring some unique stuff to the table. Old Guys aren't that hard to do nowadays.(and we technically have Ganondorf for an old guy already)

He is cool, though.

 

[Deleted member]

@Manlyspirit

Why on earth do you not find K. Rool likely? Wait...you wrote relevance? Erk.

Relevance overall means important to the series. He's always been relevant. Recentness may have been what you were looking for. Not to mention, pre-Brawl development, the most recent Donkey Kong game was, correct me if I'm wrong, Jungle Beat. It didn't have Diddy Kong. By your logic, Diddy shouldn't have been in Brawl. Honestly, K. Rool has among the best chances for an appearance in my eyes. From what I remember, he was decently popular in Japan, he has strong fan support in the US, has moveset potential that rivals Nintendo's greatest, and hails from an underrepresented series that can use a new character or two.

Just my two cents.

To quote myself, I said he hasn't been relevant as of late. And that is largely in part to there being somewhat of a drought in DK games. Anyway, don't misunderstand, I'd love to see him in, DKC2 is one of my all time favorite games, I just find it unlikely as we didn't even see a cameo of him or anything like that in the most recent DK game, and who knows when our next one will be. Btw, I take back what I said about Saki. I would drop him a spot, and put him in with Chibi Robo. He was only in 1 S&P game, and it's a relatively lesser known series, with very few games. Not to mention, the newest one introduced his son as the lead protag.

for the Zelda series, Ghirahim is the best choice nowadays, Skyward Sword's release helps his chances. he was well-recieved by the fandom for being a different approach to a villain, when compared to Ganondorf. I really would like to see both Ganon and Ghirahim in the same game, as their personalities really contrast with each other.

Just one question, when do you expect the next Zelda to come out? Before? Or after SSB4? That makes a huge difference in whether Ghir is getting in or not.

for the Pokémon series... Pikachu and Jigglypuff are definitely staying. Pokémon Trainer is likely to return as well, but Lucario's appearence may not be possible. there's the question about Mewtwo's return and the possibility of a Gen V Pokémon as well.
how I see the Pokémon series being represented: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pokémon Trainer and either Lucario or a Gen V Pokémon. but of course, I'd be happier if there were no cuts. six representants for the Pokémon franchise wouldn't be a stretch, considering how big it is.

Can't argue here, just one thing. I feel the Pkmn trainer may get a revamp, to be one of the Gen 5 Trainers, or N. Hell, if we get N, we also get Zoroark by default, killing two birds with one stone. Not to mention N is very iconic of Gen 5, appearing in both B/W and B2/W2, and having a fairly heavy role in both games.

now... for the Fire Emblem franchise. Marth is likely returning and Ike may return as well. it is safe to assume that Chrom is appearing as well. there are also other possibilities, like Roy's return, Lyn, Hector, Ephraim, Eirika, Leaf, Celice, Celica or Micaiah. a villain would do fine. perhaps the Black Knight would do for a villain.

Agreed, Marth and Ike are staying for sure, anyone who says otherwise is delusional. Ike is the 2nd most popular FE lord in Japanese polls, and he's got a strong following in the West as well. Everything past Hector is very VERY unlikely. Especially the Black Knight. Unless we get another Fire Emblem based around Ike, and he's

Spoiler

somehow resurrected

, he's not gonna show up, he might be an interesting Boss character though. Also, Hector is too much like Ike, here's a better idea, give Ike Axes. In Radiant Dawn I'm pretty sure he could use Axes right off the bat. How about tossing in a Hand Axe for some long range attacks? Ike, I hope comes with his Radiant Dawn Getup, which is possibly his coolest looking version (I hate his new look in Awakening). Well, ATL costumes can please everyone here.

I don't think F-Zero will have a newcomer due to lack of games: the last game was released in 2004 only in Japan. so, we may expect Captain Falcon to be the sole representant of F-Zero once again.

for the Metroid series... I have no idea on what to say, really. Samus's importance overshadows every other character, except Ridley... which is... well, a controversial choice. I'm not talking much about this, neither should you. I am serious.

Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way about F-Zero. Also, I know what you mean about Ridley, that's a can of worms all onto itself.

Oh, and for the record. Your red text on a black background is REALLY hard on the eyes.

Just Saiyan

To sum it up, by definition a videogame, must have at least ONE of the following things:
I disagreed on this
>Immersion
with a digital pet, won't it die if you feed it so in order to keep it alive wouldn't you have to be using the divice,
>Challenge
wikipedia says that you would raise them to battle with other people
>Competition
you could battle with your friends
>Post-game experience or education
it teaches pet care taking, which is more than some games

anyways, what do you guys think of cranky kong (he's my personal dark horse)

Just gonna reply to this, but seriously, this is the last time I'm touching this subject. First off, you need to look up the definition of "immersion." Immersion doesn't mean artificial responsibility, it means having a world and "entering" it, feeling as if you are inside of it. Virtual Pets can't do this as they have no worlds, it's just a pet... and that's it. If you need a clearer example, ALL books with stories, have immersible qualities, even History Textbooks.

In Challenge, and Post Game Edu, your argument is really weak and flimsy, one could argue that there is a challenge in taking care of a virtual pet, however, it does not exist in the same form as that of a game's, there is nothing there to really define it as "fun," (but fun is subjective anyway) it is merely a responsibility. Education though, NO. And I'm not even gonna begin to cover the reasons why, as it should be obvious enough.

I will give you Competition though, I looked it up myself, and it seems you really CAN battle against other people. Still, it's included as an extra feature, and it's not the focus of the device.

One more thing, you mentioned "having fun" should be a defining quality, but as I stated above, the concept of "fun" is subjective. What's fun for you, may not necessarily be fun for me, and vice-versa. Some people find grinding on weak monsters in an MMO for hours only to get to the next level and repeat the process "fun;" I don't. Others find "center the screen and make something dead" Call of Duty-esce modern shooters to be fun; I don't (whatever happened to the golden era of Quake man...). Different strokes for different folks. So, because the concept of fun is more difficult to define than the concept of love (love is actually rather easy to define, it's just Hollywood likes to complicate the minds of the simple-headed sheeple), it cannot be a defining trait of a videogame.

Anyway, imo, Virtual Pets, are more like "toys" than "games." Case closed, take it to the Digimon Thread from here on out.

As for Cranky Kong, now there's an idea I could get behind. Problem is, we've never seen him in action as an old guy. But he's always struck me as the Muten Roshi of the DK universe, so maybe he's secretly a total badass. Anyway, not sure how many other people, Sakurai included, would agree.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Just gonna reply to this, but seriously, this is the last time I'm touching this subject. First off, you need to look up the definition of "immersion." Immersion doesn't mean artificial responsibility, it means have a world and "entering" it, feeling as if you are inside of it. Virtual Pets can't do this as they have no worlds, it's just a pet... and that's it.

In Challenge, and Post Game Edu, your argument is really weak and flimsy, one could argue that there is a challenge in taking care of a virtual pet, however, it does not exist in the for that a game does, there is nothing there to really define it as "fun," it is merely a responsibility. Education though, NO. And I'm not even gonna begin to cover the reasons why, as it should be obvious enough.

I will give you Competition though, I looked it up myself, and it seems you really CAN battle against other people. Still, it's included as an extra feature, and it's not the focus of the device. Imo, Virtual Pets, are more like "toys" than "games." Case closed, take it to the Digimon Thread from here on out.

As for Cranky Kong, now there's an idea I could get behind. Problem is, we've never seen him in action as an old guy. But he's always struck me as the Muten Roshi of the DK universe, so maybe he's secretly a total badass. Anyway, not sure how many other people, Sakurai included, would agree.

Honestly, education is kind of a weak topic (what do I learn from cod, mario, assasins creed, zelda, metroid etc.) and really the challenge is pretty much just like pokemon, train it to be the betst, I don't know who muten roshi is, but I thought Cranks could could be like Yoda.

Anyways, the main reason he is my dark horse is because I believe he is the most reoccurring character in the series (correct me if i'm wrong), and because he seems like a joke character, which sakurai likes (the only other non-pokemon ones I can think of are tingle and waa,)

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, education is kind of a weak topic (what do I learn from cod, mario, assasins creed, zelda, metroid etc.) and really the challenge is pretty much just like pokemon, train it to be the betst, I don't know who muten roshi is, but I thought Cranks could could be like Yoda.

Anyways, the main reason he is my dark horse is because I believe he is the most reoccurring character in the series (correct me if i'm wrong), and because he seems like a joke character, which sakurai likes (the only other non-pokemon ones I can think of are tingle and waa,)

It's not about "learning" but rather developing skills. Remember, when you attend school, it's mostly to develop valuable skills such as critical thinking and research. Not to learn and memorize the dates of a History book, or know the story of some work of literature, those are just the means to an end. Videogames do this as well. Mario forces you to develop your reflexes and hand-eye coordination, plus it also increases your capacity for problem -solving skills though trial and error. In fact, most videogames are built around the concept of puzzles. They ALL have (yes even Cowadooty), some sort of puzzle built into the level design in order to allow for progress. Whether it's more complex like earlier Zelda titles, or as simple as survive for X amount of time.

Furthermore, the category was Post game experience, AND education. Post game experience is something the game gives to you AFTER you play it. Something to reflect upon. Whether it's a deep philosophical or political idea, like in Metal Gear, or a story that really moves you, and makes you reflect upon your own life because you managed to relate to the characters. If you want more, read the link I posted with those traits, back in the last page.

Anyway, the Educational aspect more directed towards educational games, which sole purpose is to educate the player in some way. Like flight Sims for example.

Back on topic.

>I don't know who Muten Roshi is...

Please be trolling, please be trolling, please be trolling.... I CANNOT be this old.

Muten Roshi is this charming old man:

 

[lobotheduck21]

It's not about "learning" but rather developing skills. Remember, when you attend school, it's mostly to develop valuable skills such as critical thinking and research. Not to learn and memorize the dates of a History book, or know the story of some work of literature, those are just the means to an end. Videogames do this as well. Mario forces you to develop your reflexes and hand-eye coordination, plus it also increases your capacity for problem -solving skills though trial and error. In fact, most videogames are built around the concept of puzzles. They ALL have (yes even Cowadooty), some sort of puzzle built into the level design in order to allow for progress. Whether it's more complex like earlier Zelda titles, or as simple as survive for X amount of time.

Furthermore, the category was Post game experience, AND education. Post game experience is something the game gives to you AFTER you play it. Something to reflect upon. Whether it's a deep philosophical or political idea, like in Metal Gear, or a story that really moves you, and makes you reflect upon your own life because you managed to relate to the characters. If you want more, read the link I posted with those traits, back in the last page.

Anyway, the Educational aspect more directed towards educational games, which sole purpose is to educate the player in some way. Like flight Sims for example.

Back on topic.

>I don't know who Muten Roshi is...

Please be trolling, please be trolling, please be trolling.... I CANNOT be this old.

Muten Roshi is this charming old man:

ok, I know who that is, just didn't know his name thanks

 

[Deleted member]

ok, I know who that is, just didn't know his name thanks

just didn't know his name thanks

didn't know his name

brb, killing myself...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, yeah, Cranky Kong is awesome. I would love him as the fifth best choice. However, if you can get the Dixie/Diddy team, he'd be easily put in.

He already has appeared in Smash a bit as is, and would be rather unique.

 

[Gene]

About Cranky Kong. Just make him big and bulky, like how he appeared in the Donkey Kong games. I've made a move set for him a few months ago.

Here's my move set:



[COLLAPSE= "Cranky Kong"/DK Sr.]

Donkey Kong Sr. (Cranky Kong)

Entrance:
Old Cranky Kong is sitting in his rocking chair rocking slowly. He takes out a potion out of nowhere and drinks it, causing him to break his chair and grow back to his younger form. He ends his entrance with him beating his chest.

Specials:

Neutral B: Bee Hive:

Cranky pulls out his jar from the DK3 box art and shoots out a cloud of bees like a cannonball. The longer you charge it the more bees come out that make up the cloud's size. The types of bees range from how long you charge the jar. The longer the charge the faster the bees' approach you.

Weak Bees/No charge- Beespys

Medium/Half charge- Beebomb

Strongest/Full charge- Buzzbees

Side B: Barrel Toss:

Throws a barrel at you and rolls at a fast pace. If you shield one from hitting you then it breaks on contact. Cranky's allowed to have 2 out at once. When holding side B you can carry a barrel in your hand, you can place one by throwing one on the ground. The barrels will start to disappear in 10 seconds.

Down B: Oil Drum:

Cranky places an oil drum on the ground. The oil drum works like an exploding crate. After 2 seconds an oil/fire ball will come out of the oil drum and follow the opponent at a slow speed. If you shield a fire ball it will disappear. After a while the oil drum will explode, but can also explode if you throw an opponent at it.

Up B: Spring:

Cranky's spring would work like sonic's recovery except you can decide which direction you can use it like Fox's recovery. His recovery would send you high in the air like how it does in brawl. Cranky can be lighter then DK. Which would give him more mobility in the air and could help out with recovering horizontally. If he use's his recovery on the ground the spring will stay in place but it'll bounce you away depending on the direction it's placed.

Forward Smash: DK's Fsmash from smash 64, as quick as Marth's Fsmash.

Up Smash: Balances on one hand and kicks upwards with both feet.


Dash Attack: Cranky Rolls on the ground once at you.

Down Smash: Hammer Sweep:

Cranky does two quick spins with the Hammer from the Donkey Kong games. A bit similar to Dedede's Dsmash but repeats it twice, it's slightly slower but stronger than his Dsmash.

I wanted his move set to be made up of items he uses from the Donkey Kong series.
[/COLLAPSE]

 

[Deleted member]

Well, yeah, Cranky Kong is awesome. I would love him as the fifth best choice. However, if you can get the Dixie/Diddy team, he'd be easily put in.

He already has appeared in Smash a bit as is, and would be rather unique.

A question about the Diddy & Dixie duo. I know it's a rather touchy issue among the Diddy mains, but weren't they supposed to be a duo in the first place in Brawl?

I remember hearing that somewhere. I think it was something about Dixie's data being found ingame or something.

Anyone have any links to this? I wanna read it.

 

[Deleted member]

In addition, I found something interesting regarding Little Mac's chances. Here. A little old for sure (Pre-Melee days), but it comes directly from Sakurai, and I think it still matters. Translated, one of the lines say "And skill is few... urban champion" . Yeah, Bing translate stinks. Anyway, Sakurai doesn't think Little Mac has enough moveset potential to make it in. Think he's changed his mind since then? I'm going to say no. Several ATs are ones Sakurai presumebly wanted to include in Smash but couldn't come up with movesets for. To use some examples, Starfy, Devil, and Tingle. Little Mac may fall into this category. Ice Climbers has shown that Sakurai will include anyone he likes, regardless of popularity. Sakurai has shown to be partial to Little Mac, and given the above quote combined with the fact that Little Mac is only represented by an AT, it seems he still believes (at least, during Brawl developement) Little Mac lacks interesting move set potential. Comments?

That quote is about the Urban Champion, not Little Mac.
You know, THIS guy:

Who's moves only consist of punch and strong punch. That's literally it. That isn't very interesting.
Mac has more punches in his original game than that, having left and right jabs, left and right body blows, and the Star Uppercut.
The Wii game gave Mac quite a bit of other types of punches exclusive to the multiplayer mode (due to the different style of fighting compared to single player) and even a "Hulking out" by turning into Giga Mac (Final Smash material right there).
Little Mac having a boxing style would also be far more interesting than a plain street thug who can only do two kinds of punches.
And further proof there isn't an issue; Captain Falcon had NOTHING from his game, but was deemed interesting enough to Sakurai to give him Kamen Rider-esque moves. And Marth, who's entire moveset in Smash is just different ways of swinging a sword. So a moveset with just different ways to punch (considering the many types of punches in boxing itself, including Mac's various opponents) would not be a problem.

@Manly: I will make my move at another time and another place (the Digimon board). People seem to be tired of seeing the discussion here.

 

[Reyson]

Too lazy to find the post and quote the line but someone a few posts back mentioned that 10% of the characters being 3rd party would be bad, why is that? Most of the suggested ones became iconic characters on the various nintendo systems, it's not like they aren't part of the Nintendo history just because they weren't made by a company under Nintendo.
Characters like Megaman, whose had over 20 games released on Nintendo consoles is just as much part of that. There are plenty of popular 3rd party characters that almost exclusively existed on Nintendo consoles and I really don't see a problem with having them included if at all possible.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Keep in mind that Super Smash Bros. is a Nintendo crossover, at in Nintendo characters doing Nintendo related stuff. Having a glutton of non-Nintendo characters would defeat the purpose of a Nintendo crossover overall. Third party characters should only be included as a bit of a bonus thing as apposed to a main focus so the general theme is not misdirected in the wrong direction.

After all, too much of a good thing always leads to disaster.

 

[Reyson]

Keep in mind that Super Smash Bros. is a Nintendo crossover, at in Nintendo characters doing Nintendo related stuff. Having a glutton of non-Nintendo characters would defeat the purpose of a Nintendo crossover overall. Third party characters should only be included as a bit of a bonus thing as apposed to a main focus so the general focus is not misdirected.

The vast majority would still be Nintendo's characters and the rest of them would still be very much connected to Nintendo because they exist primairily on their consoles. Many of these characters represent entire franchises or even companies.

In the end, many characters are added to attract customers or get fans excited and there just aren't many Nintendo characters left that can do that because they don't have big fanbases(otherwise they would've been in already).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's still a Nintendo crossover. Having most characters that are mainly Nintendo(now, ones that barely had a game on another system, or atleast something like PC/Mobile Phone is fairly close to being easier to put in compared to a regular third party, who Nintendo has no control over the Company)

If 10%, we're talking about 4 characters out of 40. That's actually quite a lot. We barely got 2 in Brawl. The ratio may be around 5% here. Or a lot smaller, since Sonic was not planned from the start, meaning there was already 45 planned characters(or 44 since the Forbidden Seven had one questionable file). That's 1 out of 44 that would've been 3rd Party.

I wouldn't expect anything more than 5% of the roster to be 3rd Party overall. Namco-Bandai characters may not necessarily be included among this ratio, if only because they're actually working on the game. As in, let's say Sakurai puts a "up to 4 3rd parties" rule. Namco-Bandai characters may not count.

But we don't know what his standards are in this case. We don't even know if he'll add any more 3rd parties. We're not even guaranteed for Sonic and Snake to return. We know nothing beyond "Pit is definitely in SSB4" so far. There's way too little information he's given.

 

[Second Power]

That quote is about the Urban Champion, not Little Mac.

Oh. Oh. ...Well, I really messed up there. Really, really messed up there. Why the heck did I think Little Mac's game was titled Urban Champion? Feel free to flame me, anybody. I deserve it.

So King K. Rool? He ranks up there with the big villians of Nintendo, which is why he's likely. Though, then again, Gannondorf only got in Melee because Sakurai thought he could be a Falcon clone. But, smaller pool this time, so that helps.

 

[Frostwraith]

With the Mario & Sonic games going strong, most wouldn't believe Sonic would be removed from Smash.

Many thought Snake would be thanks to the existence of PSASB. But they chose Raiden instead.

I don't see any that has a chance of leaving unless Sakurai says no to third parties in its entirety this time. Which I doubt since the inclusion of Snake and Sonic were severely well-met.(even if all didn't like the execution, having them in alone was awesome)

a valid point, indeed... seems that both Snake and Sonic may be more likely to return than what we might expect.

I'd really like it if they kept these two characters, because of their unique battle styles. It'd be a shame if they didn't return.

Oh. Oh. ...Well, I really messed up there. Really, really messed up there. Why the heck did I think Little Mac's game was titled Urban Champion? Feel free to flame me, anybody. I deserve it.

So King K. Rool? He ranks up there with the big villians of Nintendo, which is why he's likely. Though, then again, Gannondorf only got in Melee because Sakurai thought he could be a Falcon clone. But, smaller pool this time, so that helps.

Agreed on K. Rool. at this rate, it'd be bizarre if they didn't put him this time. after all, they did include Diddy Kong in Brawl. then again, Diddy Kong could've appeared in Melee too...

 

[Opossum]

I think the Rare litigation thing is why Diddy wasn't in Melee, to be honest.

 

[jigglover]

Too lazy to find the post and quote the line but someone a few posts back mentioned that 10% of the characters being 3rd party would be bad, why is that? Most of the suggested ones became iconic characters on the various nintendo systems, it's not like they aren't part of the Nintendo history just because they weren't made by a company under Nintendo.
Characters like Megaman, whose had over 20 games released on Nintendo consoles is just as much part of that. There are plenty of popular 3rd party characters that almost exclusively existed on Nintendo consoles and I really don't see a problem with having them included if at all possible.

I'm just going to address this. 10% Is possibly too much, but in a roster of 50, which is unlikely to happen, 5 will be third-party. As long as they make good decisions with that, then I'm content. For me, it would have to be: Snake, Connor/Ezio/Altair, CoD soldier, thing from little big planet and Moogle. Of course, it's unlikely Sonic will be cut, CoD is down-right impossible as is little big planet thing. I am unsure about the must be on nintendo console rule. Is this character or series, because if ti was character it would only be Connor for an AC rep, if series then I believe Ezio has the best chance to represent the AC series. And yes, I actually support an AC rep to get in! Moogle is just my personal favourite FF character. For an actual 5 third-parties, it would be: Sonic, Snake, Megaman, Pacman and an FF rep. I am all against Megaman and Pacman, so I don't want them in... I'm one of those scrooges who don't like the idea of third-parties. However, I can not tell you how bliddy excited I was when Snake was announced, as in properly excited, but the effect just wasn't the same with Sonic....

 

[Deleted member]

For me, it would have to be: Snake, Connor/Ezio/Altair, CoD soldier, thing from little big planet and Moogle. [...] I am all against Megaman and Pacman, so I don't want them in...

Connor/Ezio/Altair, CoD soldier, thing from little big planet [...] I am all against Megaman

You're... NOT being serious are you?
...

6/10 on your troll attempt, made me rage a bit actually, and you had me going for a while.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yes it's all a trolling attempt. It would of been more LEGIT if he mentioned Darth Vader and Mickey Mouse anyway.

 

[Opossum]

And I thought the "thing" was called Sackboy...

 

[8-peacock-8]

thing from little big planet [....] as is little big planet thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AGDRQIKkeE

 

[lobotheduck21]

Both ezio and Altair have been on a Nintendo console

 

[8-peacock-8]

Both ezio and Altair have been on a Nintendo console

Yeah. But none of those appearances are worth mentioning. At least compared to the main AC games on the PS3 and 360. (Not saying their not eligible. But, they don't have enough going for them to get into Smash bros.)

 

[Deleted member]

Both ezio and Altair have been on a Nintendo console

You wanna play as boring, tacticool protags and Assassin's Creed, well Assassins, then go play Sony All Star Battle Royale, or the Brawl Hack that came out for it recently.

Otherwise, leave Cowadooty out of Smash Bros. It's already the cancer killing the industry, no need for it to spread to the few places we find refuge from it.

 

[3Bismyname]

You wanna play as boring, tacticool protags and Assassin's Creed, well Assassins, then go play Sony All Star Battle Royale, or the Brawl Hack that came out for it recently.

FAIL!!!!
Assassin's Creed isn't in Playstation All Stars.

but anyway Assassin's has no business in Smash. it's a good series but it is better known and represented on the other consoles. as far as COD is concerned, well that's just stupid.