Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[---]

@Tri: Again, I have to bring up the Snake issue. If we didn't know Snake was in the game, but we knew a Konami character was, how many people really would have guessed Snake, and instead guessed Simon Belmont? Simon sure makes a heck of a lot more sense, but Snake ultimately was the character in the end. Why? His creator.
Snake only generated hype because he blindsided the fanbase as they didn't expect a Konami character from the getgo. The situation would be much different had Snake not been revealed before it was known there'd be a Konami character.
Same issue with Tales. We know the creator is playing a major role in Smash (being the second developer after Sakurai).

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand. do i fall on Contradiction or what. and wouldn't that put you on the one right below that because you are attacking my grammer more than anything else.
this is a worse response than mine. and i'll admit mine was bad. wow swearing in literally every post does not make you sound like the adult here. and honestly i could try to justify Digimon, but we are all well aware that it's improbable. and we're ok with that. it's called dreaming. sometimes that's better than talking in all seriousness about characters who have next to no shot with the only supporting evidence is that they had 1 mildly successful game.

I didn't attack your grammar, I pointed out your lack of proper grammar in hopes you would fix it. What I attacked was your lack of a solid argument, and yes, you fell under simple contradiction. Now you fell into "responding to tone" with a hint of "ad hominem" by attacking my style of expression or 'voice.'

>lrn2reading comprehension

Also, you want to make a Dream thread, go make a Digimon support thread, but if we can agree that Digimon have little to no shot of getting in, then what is the point of discussing them in depth in a thread dedicated predicting the roster. If we can agree they won't be getting in, then there is nothing else to discuss.

Finally, on your final point. I assume it's aimed at my mentioned characters. If you feel like debating over those characters and their chances of making the roster, I'm more than obliged to have an adult discussion with you and provide both strong opinions and supporting evidence for the 6 characters in my signature. I've already admitted Alisa has a near 0 chance of getting in, and thus why I hardly mention her anymore. KOS-MOS on the other hand I feel has a decent shot among the Namco characters, albeit a bit slimmer than Pac-Man, and Lloyd.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@3Bismyname: Just ignore it/him. He doesn't give much useful stuff at all, and almost all flaming and pointless statements. He's a bonafide troll.

Did you mean to make a topic for him? I doubt we'll get a big one since it'll be all "Nah, Pokemon is better" "Nobody cares", etc. Digimon is constantly shot down. It's easier to just discuss it on here.

@Try-Hyphen: Snake's situation is really the same situation right now with Namco-Bandai's characters. They have easy influence to attempt to get someone in like Kojima did. I'm pretty sure that's his point.

Snake also really didn't do anything to Brawl besides say "Third Parties are possible". It was known too quickly than Snake was meant for Melee, meaning that his appearance in Brawl isn't that special over.

GY can correct me if he needs to.

 

[Deleted member]

Digimon doesn't have a "zero chance". The chances may not be that great, but since the following is true:
1. The franchise debuted as a game franchise (the virtual pets came first). (1st rule of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria)
2. Games for the franchise have been on Nintendo systems. (2nd rule of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria)
3. The franchise is owned by Namco-Bandai, which is working on Smash 4.

There is still a sliver of a chance. Now, unless the series gets a crapton of requests that beats out the rest of NB's series, or unless Sakurai finds great interest in the series, that little sliver is all it has.
But as of now, it has more chances than say, Halo, which REALLY has a 0% chance.

KOS-MOS, on the other hand, fails one of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria, which still applies to NB despite working on Smash 4; Her series has yet to appear on a Nintendo system. Now, while she herself appears in Project X Zone for the 3DS, I heavily doubt it would be enough for Sakurai.
Also, she, like the Digimon, is not that requested of a character anyways. So even if Xenosaga has some titles on Nintendo systems, her chances would still be somewhat abysmal compared to say, Heihachi from Tekken.

Now, Bayonetta. Pretty much anyone who thinks she is likely is overstating her chances.
Yes, Nintendo is publishing Bayonetta 2, however, what puts her above a Dragon Quest character? Nintendo published quite a few Dragon Quest games outside Japan, and even had a few crossovers with the series and Mario through the Fortune Street series and Slime being in Mario Sports Mix. Nintendo also published Epic Mickey in Japan. Does that mean Mickey should be in the game and make hugebowserfan orgasm?
Honestly, the main reason people cloud their judgement over her is the fact she's female, and it is foolishly believed that females get more priority since "Smash needs more of them". Newsflash: A character doesn't have priority solely on the fact they have a vagina and a pair of breasts.

"But, Kamiya said that she should be in Smash on his Twitter!" No, he didn't. When Kamiya replies to a message, he makes his reponse, then posts the message he responded to following the name of the one who wrote the message. Someone was telling him that she should be in Smash. His response: "Sounds fun." Take what you will of this.

"But Sakurai was caught snooping at Platinum Studios! He must be interested!" The only thing that this can mean is that he wanted to see what was planned from them, since he himself is a gamer with multiple systems. And remember that The Wonderful 101 is also a Platinum Studios game, so it's not like Bayonetta 2 was the precise reason he was snooping.

 

[Metal Overlord]

"But Sakurai was caught snooping at Platinum Studios! He must be interested!" The only thing that this can mean is that he wanted to see what was planned from them, since he himself is a gamer with multiple systems.

Agree with this part so much lol

It's funny how people seem to think Sakurai's life just revolves around Smash

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

You can't act as though a character from Namco is "unlikely" because of "hype".

Snake was not included to induce hype, Snake was included because Sakurai's friend Kojima "practically begged" Sakurai to include him. So, like the Tales characters, Snake's inclusion in Smash was up to Sakurai. He chose to include Snake in the game for Kojima.

Now, we have someone working on the game, who would like to see a character of his included. Why would Sakurai say no to that character?

So if anything, adding a Namco-Bandai character like Lloyd Irving would not be "lowering the standards" for 3rd Parties, as Snake HAD THE SAME STANDARDS. Especially considering, like Tales, Metal Gear is strongly associated with Sony and the Playstation system with very minimal Nintendo history (Hell, Metal Gear has less Nintendo history than Tales!). And like Tales (if it gets a character), it would be because someone that is heavily involved with the series requested it and Sakurai agreed to add them. The only difference is that Yoshi-to is a co-director while Kojima was simply a friend.

 

[Starphoenix]

Look, Haruda and the head honcho of the Tales series have both stated they aren't going to badger Sakurai into adding a Tekken or Tales character. So no, Namco-Bandai working on the game does not give them anymore license to throw their weight around any more so than if they weren't helping Sakurai. If I'm contracted to do a job, or help a friend; I don't get to tell someone to put in a hot tub if they don't want one.

Something to that effect anyways.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is what that means;

Namco-Bandai are not going to suggest a Tekken or Tales of character.

What this doesn't mean;

Sakurai may ask for one of those.

They can suggest others.

That's the entire gist of it. You're assuming way too much out of way too little information.

 

[Deleted member]

Source? The only things I've read is that they said the final decision is Sakurai's (which was precisely the case with Kojima and Snake) and that Harada doesn't feel that Smash Bros. fans would want a Tekken character.

 

[Starphoenix]

Source? The only things I've read is that they said the final decision is Sakurai's (which was precisely the case with Kojima and Snake) and that Harada doesn't feel that Smash Bros. fans would want a Tekken character.

"It is a difficult question, maybe if we pray hard to put a character in Tales of Smash Bros., then it will happen! Anyway Higuchi-san really wants, but that will depend Sakurai-san. But for now, it is too early to tell.

Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/tales-of-characters-could-make-cameos-in-next-smash-bros#bqxEBWqePMjFgmoF.99 "

 

[Deleted member]

"It is a difficult question, maybe if we pray hard to put a character in Tales of Smash Bros., then it will happen! Anyway Higuchi-san really wants, but that will depend Sakurai-san. But for now, it is too early to tell.

Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/tales-of-characters-could-make-cameos-in-next-smash-bros#bqxEBWqePMjFgmoF.99 "

"Depend Sakurai-san."
As in, final decision is up to Sakurai, which I have acknowledged repeatedly.
However, there is nothing that says that they won't "badger" Sakurai for it like Kojima did for Snake, which you claimed was said.

 

[---]

Ah Star beat me to re-mentioning the interest thing.

If you go back to my previous posts I did mention interest was a heavy factor. Either way I'm done arguing 3rd parties for a while. To summarize: The interest just doesn't seem to be there from either side, and arguably the fans. None of the Namco characters fully meet the character criteria or if someone claims they do it's very shaky.

EDIT: Please do not take any of this for fact and freak out. This are just my own personal observations. I could be wrong.

 

[Starphoenix]

"Depend Sakurai-san."
As in, final decision is up to Sakurai, which I have acknowledged repeatedly.
However, there is nothing that says that they won't "badger" Sakurai for it like Kojima did for Snake, which you claimed was said.

"Praying" doesn't sound like they are in a position to make a request to me. They aren't going to step on his toes.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This is kind of why I think that Namco may not get any characters in Super Smash Bros. If the fans are pretty divisive on what characters should be in the next game (Tekken, Tales, and Pac-man specifically) then I think they'll go for the 4th choice of none of the above and move along with development. Personally though that would be a waste of potential, but then again you got to rule out every possible scenario in the book for the sake of argument.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Praying means if they don't ask, they hope Sakurai puts them in. It doesn't mean they won't say anything to him.

Sorry, Starphoenix, but GY is right. You're saying an entirely different message from what was actually said.

Tekken, Tales, and Pac-Man aren't all of Namco-Bandai's viable choices, as they still have Digimon(and it's actually an extremely popular series, just not as much as Pokemon) and Soul Calibur, plus many other lesser known possibilities.

The best I get out of it is that Namco-Bandai may avoid asking for anything.

This really has nothing to do with Sakurai or his thoughts on the matter. I wouldn't even think with what info we got that Namco-Bandai is unlikely to have a character at all.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

KOS-MOS, on the other hand, fails one of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria, which still applies to NB despite working on Smash 4; Her series has yet to appear on a Nintendo system. Now, while she herself appears in Project X Zone for the 3DS, I heavily doubt it would be enough for Sakurai.

Minor correction: Xenosaga 1&2 were combined/ported to the DS in Japan only. It doens't help her chances much, but she HAS appeared on a Nintendo system before now.

 

[Deleted member]

@3Bismyname: Just ignore it/him. He doesn't give much useful stuff at all, and almost all flaming and pointless statements. He's a bonafide troll.

Did you mean to make a topic for him? I doubt we'll get a big one since it'll be all "Nah, Pokemon is better" "Nobody cares", etc. Digimon is constantly shot down. It's easier to just discuss it on here.

@Try-Hyphen: Snake's situation is really the same situation right now with Namco-Bandai's characters. They have easy influence to attempt to get someone in like Kojima did. I'm pretty sure that's his point.

Snake also really didn't do anything to Brawl besides say "Third Parties are possible". It was known too quickly than Snake was meant for Melee, meaning that his appearance in Brawl isn't that special over.

GY can correct me if he needs to.

>someone disagrees with what I say, HE MUST BE A TROLL.

This is what you sound like. Rather than posting a reasonable response like Golden Yoshimitsu did, you simply threw the troll card out. Good job buddy...

Digimon doesn't have a "zero chance". The chances may not be that great, but since the following is true:
1. The franchise debuted as a game franchise (the virtual pets came first). (1st rule of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria)
2. Games for the franchise have been on Nintendo systems. (2nd rule of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria)
3. The franchise is owned by Namco-Bandai, which is working on Smash 4.

There is still a sliver of a chance. Now, unless the series gets a crapton of requests that beats out the rest of NB's series, or unless Sakurai finds great interest in the series, that little sliver is all it has.
But as of now, it has more chances than say, Halo, which REALLY has a 0% chance.

KOS-MOS, on the other hand, fails one of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria, which still applies to NB despite working on Smash 4; Her series has yet to appear on a Nintendo system. Now, while she herself appears in Project X Zone for the 3DS, I heavily doubt it would be enough for Sakurai.
Also, she, like the Digimon, is not that requested of a character anyways. So even if Xenosaga has some titles on Nintendo systems, her chances would still be somewhat abysmal compared to say, Heihachi from Tekken.

Now, Bayonetta. Pretty much anyone who thinks she is likely is overstating her chances.
Yes, Nintendo is publishing Bayonetta 2, however, what puts her above a Dragon Quest character? Nintendo published quite a few Dragon Quest games outside Japan, and even had a few crossovers with the series and Mario through the Fortune Street series and Slime being in Mario Sports Mix. Nintendo also published Epic Mickey in Japan. Does that mean Mickey should be in the game and make hugebowserfan orgasm?
Honestly, the main reason people cloud their judgement over her is the fact she's female, and it is foolishly believed that females get more priority since "Smash needs more of them". Newsflash: A character doesn't have priority solely on the fact they have a vagina and a pair of breasts.

"But, Kamiya said that she should be in Smash on his Twitter!" No, he didn't. When Kamiya replies to a message, he makes his reponse, then posts the message he responded to following the name of the one who wrote the message. Someone was telling him that she should be in Smash. His response: "Sounds fun." Take what you will of this.

"But Sakurai was caught snooping at Platinum Studios! He must be interested!" The only thing that this can mean is that he wanted to see what was planned from them, since he himself is a gamer with multiple systems. And remember that The Wonderful 101 is also a Platinum Studios game, so it's not like Bayonetta 2 was the precise reason he was snooping.

KOS-MOS has been in Nintendo consoles several times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenosaga
She was in the remakes of Xenosaga 1 and 2 for the DS, she has been in a couple Super Robot Wars games on the DS, and she's ben in several crossover games and fighters on the DS and other consoles, also her movepool is practically built already.

No Digimon has practically 0 chance. Why? It's primarily an anime, and a game second. Agumon getting in is like Goku getting in. It ain't happening, Sakurai CLEARLY stated they had to be videogame characters first anime secondary. Digimon started out as a Digital pet toy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digimon#Virtual_pet_toy, which then mained and became popular as an anime series. A virtual pet hardly counts as a videogame. Furthermore, Digimon is recognized because of the anime, not the pet toys. In other words, no, Digimon has NO chance, especially not when compared to the other Namco contenders. Not to mention it's a rival series to Pokemon.

There's clear difference between being reasonable, and having wild dreams. There's a clear distinction between having a slim chance, and having NO chance. KOS-MOS has a slim chance, Digimon on the other hand, have NO chance.

Bayonetta has support because she's interesting and appeals to the more "hardcore" audience, which seems to be Nintendo's target this generation. She's basically the Dante we can't have. It's not because she's female, it's because she's basically Dante, and an overall cool character. She would bring a wild surprise similar to that of Snake's. Not to mention, Platinum moved over to Nintendo, Bayo 2 will be WiiU exclusive, that's HUGE news, not for Smash, but for the direction Nintendo seems to be taking now.

 

[Arcadenik]

Agree with this part so much lol

It's funny how people seem to think Sakurai's life just revolves around Smash

LOL. Reminds me of that running gag we used to do with Sakurai's Twitter posts.

Sakurai goes to his doctor's appointment. Dr. Mario confirmed.

Sakurai wants to buy a new toothbrush. Chibi-Robo confirmed.

Sakurai survives an earthquake in Tokyo. Isaac confirmed.

 

[3Bismyname]

No Digimon has practically 0 chance. Why? It's primarily an anime, and a game second. Agumon getting in is like Goku getting in. It ain't happening, Sakurai CLEARLY stated they had to be videogame characters first anime secondary. Digimon started out as a Digital pet toy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digimon#Virtual_pet_toy, which then mained and became popular as an anime series. A virtual pet hardly counts as a videogame. Furthermore, Digimon is recognized because of the anime, not the pet toys. In other words, no, Digimon has NO chance, especially not when compared to the other Namco contenders. Not to mention it's a rival series to Pokemon.

There's clear difference between being reasonable, and having wild dreams. There's a clear distinction between having a slim chance, and having NO chance. KOS-MOS has a slim chance, Digimon on the other hand, have NO chance.

Digital Monster Virtual Pet= released June 26, 1997

Digital Monster Ver. S: Digimon Tamers on the Sega Saturn= released September 23, 1998

Digimon anime= aired March 7 1999 in Japan

So you'd be more correct to say that Digimon started as a Virtual pet, then got a game then an anime. the anime may have made them more popular, but they were a game first.

 

[Frostwraith]

yes, I agree that Nintendo is widening their audience. also, if Snake got in, Bayonetta isn't out of possibility, as they can tone her down like Snake was.

and before someone objects using the claim that she is sexualized and her games contain sexual content, references, innuendo, blah blah blah... you might want check Snake's codecs (especially when it's Snake Vs. Zero Suit Samus) or some of the jokes in Kid Icarus: Uprising.

and seriously, it's not like Zero Suit Samus helps in anything... ever seen a Metal ZSS in Brawl? yeah... you know what I mean.

Fire Emblem: Awakening also has a "healthy" dose. I mean, have you seen THIS?!

[COLLAPSE="Inverse from Fire Emblem: Awakening"]

[/COLLAPSE]

and don't get me started on Nono from the same game...

also, Bayonetta 2 is being released exclusively for Wii U and published by Nintendo.

for those who say Nintendo is kiddie, I think it would be a good time to rethink that, no?

so... long story short, any argument that Bayonetta can't get in because she's sexualized is invalid. also, note that I do not support her, but I wouldn't mind if she appeared, after all, the more the merrier.

changing the subject, it's agreeable that no anime characters will feature, unless Sakurai changes his mind. everyone knows this already, I don't need to go any further.

about Namco Bandai characters, there are a lot of possibilities: Pac-Man, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Tales... not that such is relevant, but Pac-Man and the Ghosts have already appeared in the Mario Kart Arcade GP games and Link was already featured in the GCN version of Soul Calibur II. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Wii U Edition will feature costumes and other references to Nintendo games, and SSB4 is being developed by Namco Bandai, so, it's not out of possibility to see a Namco Bandai character in the new game.

 

[8-peacock-8]

KOS-MOS, on the other hand, fails one of Sakurai's 3rd Party criteria, which still applies to NB despite working on Smash 4; Her series has yet to appear on a Nintendo system. Now, while she herself appears in Project X Zone for the 3DS, I heavily doubt it would be enough for Sakurai.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hPfu5Awp14

 

[Arcadenik]

OMG. Digimon really? I forgot they even existed! If Namco is getting a character, it's most likely going to be their flagship mascot Pac-Man, not some random anime-like characters from Tales of Symphonia, Soul Calibur, or Tekken, or something forgettable like a Digimon. It gotta be a character who appeals to as many people as possible. Casual gamers usually aren't good with RPGs and advanced fighting games but they can play Pac-Man just fine while the hardcore gamers are good with RPGs and/or advanced fighting games AND Pac-Man.

 

[Deleted member]

yes, I agree that Nintendo is widening their audience. also, if Snake got in, Bayonetta isn't out of possibility, as they can tone her down like Snake was.

and before someone objects using the claim that she is sexualized and her games contain sexual content, references, innuendo, blah blah blah... you might want check Snake's codecs (especially when it's Snake Vs. Zero Suit Samus) or some of the jokes in Kid Icarus: Uprising.

and seriously, it's not like Zero Suit Samus helps in anything... ever seen a Metal ZSS in Brawl? yeah... you know what I mean.

Fire Emblem: Awakening also has a "healthy" dose. I mean, have you seen THIS?!

[COLLAPSE="Inverse from Fire Emblem: Awakening"]

[/COLLAPSE]

and don't get me started on Nono from the same game...

also, Bayonetta 2 is being released exclusively for Wii U and published by Nintendo.

for those who say Nintendo is kiddie, I think it would be a good time to rethink that, no?

so... long story short, any argument that Bayonetta can't get in because she's sexualized is invalid. also, note that I do not support her, but I wouldn't mind if she appeared, after all, the more the merrier.

changing the subject, it's agreeable that no anime characters will feature, unless Sakurai changes his mind. everyone knows this already, I don't need to go any further.

about Namco Bandai characters, there are a lot of possibilities: Pac-Man, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Tales... not that such is relevant, but Pac-Man and the Ghosts have already appeared in the Mario Kart Arcade GP games and Link was already featured in the GCN version of Soul Calibur II. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 Wii U Edition will feature costumes and other references to Nintendo games, and SSB4 is being developed by Namco Bandai, so, it's not out of possibility to see a Namco Bandai character in the new game.

FINALLY, the voice of reason speaks. Quoted for Truth.

Digital Monster Virtual Pet= released June 26, 1997

Digital Monster Ver. S: Digimon Tamers on the Sega Saturn= released September 23, 1998

Digimon anime= aired March 7 1999 in Japan

So you'd be more correct to say that Digimon started as a Virtual pet, then got a game then an anime. the anime may have made them more popular, but they were a game first.

You're correct on that, I honestly never heard of that game, so I'll give you that. "Technically" Digimon was a game before it was an anime series. However, my points still stand. It became popular due to the anime and it is recognized first and foremost through the anime. Therefore, the general opinion of the public is that Digimon was an anime series from the 2000's that rivaled Pokemon.

Which brings me to my second point. Pokemon is Nintendo's Monster Franchise. Just like we won't see Shin Megami Tensei demons, nor Yu-Gi-Oh! Monsters, nor DQ Joker Monsters, nor any of the 1000 other monster franchises out there as playable, we won't see Digimon. They are all rival franchises to Pokemon, and Digimon in particular, is the furthest thing possible from being "Nintendo-ey." People DO NOT correlate Digimon with Nintendo, and putting them in a Nintendo Tribute Fighting Game is ludicrous. That train of thinking alone should be clue enough as to why Digimon ARE NOT plausible characters for Smash Bros. Now I agree, this same argument can be used for Xenosaga, and you are welcome to use it if you like. The only plus on Xenosaga's part is that it's less known in the West, and thus it feels less "out of place" in a Smash Universe. But the argument still stands.

EDIT: Just to include this.

@Arcadenik

Casual gamers usually aren't good with RPGs and advanced fighting games but they can play Pac-Man just fine while the hardcore gamers are good with RPGs and/or advanced fighting games AND Pac-Man.

Why must you correlate Nintedo with the "casual audience," as I've mentioned before, Nintendo seems to be taking a different approach this generation, so lets hope so and embrace this new approach, in the end it means better games for all of us. But we need to stop expecting that Nintendo is catering to the casuals.

 

[Deleted member]

KOS-MOS has been in Nintendo consoles several times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenosaga
She was in the remakes of Xenosaga 1 and 2 for the DS, she has been in a couple Super Robot Wars games on the DS, and she's ben in several crossover games and fighters on the DS and other consoles, also her movepool is practically built already.

I never said anything about a movepool, which honestly doesn't affect anything considering we have plenty of characters that were limited in their source material. Jus' saying.
I stand corrected about the non-Nintendo issue, though. I concede there.

No Digimon has practically 0 chance. Why? It's primarily an anime, and a game second. Agumon getting in is like Goku getting in. It ain't happening, Sakurai CLEARLY stated they had to be videogame characters first anime secondary. Digimon started out as a Digital pet toy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digimon#Virtual_pet_toy, which then mained and became popular as an anime series. A virtual pet hardly counts as a videogame. Furthermore, Digimon is recognized because of the anime, not the pet toys. In other words, no, Digimon has NO chance, especially not when compared to the other Namco contenders. Not to mention it's a rival series to Pokemon.

Being recognised more for an anime than a game is not grounds for inelligibility. Otherwise we wouldn't have the likes of Lucario, who attained his popularity from the movie that he starred in.
Sakurai's exact criteria was this:
-The character must have originated in a video game.
-The character must have been on a Nintendo system.
So I was wrong about KOS-MOS not fitting the 2nd point already when I thought Project X Zone was her only Nintendo appearance as it refers to the characters themselves, not the series they come from.
But this is about Digimon, not KOS-MOS. This means that for example, someone like say, Shoutmon from Xros Wars is ineligible as he debuted in the anime (at least to my knowledge). But Agumon, Greymon, and even Metalgreymon (but not Wargreymon) are fair game as they debuted in the virtual pets. And the virtual pets, being similar to the old Game & Watches, count as video games.
So no, it's not like adding Goku, who debuted in the Dragon Ball manga.

There's clear difference between being reasonable, and having wild dreams. There's a clear distinction between having a slim chance, and having NO chance. KOS-MOS has a slim chance, Digimon on the other hand, have NO chance.

Honestly, KOS-MOS, Bayonetta, and the Digimon all qualify under "wild dreams".

Bayonetta has support because she's interesting and appeals to themore "hardcore" audience, which seems to be Nintendo's target this generation. She's basically the Dante we can't have. It's not because she's female, it's because she's basically Dante, and an overall cool character. She would bring a wild surprise similar to that of Snake's. Not to mention, Platinum moved over to Nintendo, Bayo 2 will be WiiU exclusive, that's HUGE news, not for Smash, but for the direction Nintendo seems to be taking now.

No offense, but this honestly doesn't mean anything in regards to Smash. Being catered to a "hardcore" audience doesn't do anything for her chances, which are overstated, no matter the reason she gets support.

EDIT: And the issue is not that she "can't be toned down", because she can easily be toned down. It's that having one title that's Nintendo exclusive is not automatic grounds for being a guest in Smash.
Unless Kamiya pushes for her or unless she becomes the next Sonic in terms of demand (which not even Mega Man has become yet), she is not getting in. Plain and simple.
Not saying it's impossible, as she doesn't break the 3rd Party criteria, just that it's improbable.

 

[Frostwraith]

@Arcadenik



Why must you correlate Nintedo with the "casual audience," as I've mentioned before, Nintendo seems to be taking a different approach this generation, so lets hope so and embrace this new approach, in the end it means better games for all of us. But we need to stop expecting that Nintendo is catering to the casuals.

I don't need to post Inverse again, now do I?

This whole story of Nintendo being kiddie and casual is now utter nonsense. sure, they catered to the casual audience in the Wii (and it worked, you can't deny that), but that was a stepping stone for the Wii U, which broadens this same audience to the rest of the players, including the more hardcore.

EDIT: but it's as Golden says, this has little to do with Bayonetta's inclusion in SSB4.

EDIT 2:

EDIT: And it's not that she "can't be toned down" because she can easily be toned down.

I've already stated this in my previous post, but I think it's important to highlight this anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't need to post Inverse again, now do I?

This whole story of Nintendo being kiddie and casual is now utter nonsense. sure, they catered to the casual audience in the Wii (and it worked, you can't deny that), but that was a stepping stone for the Wii U, which broadens this same audience to the rest of the players, including the more hardcore.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm suggesting people stop limiting Nintendo's options because "it wouldn't appeal to the casuals."

I never said anything about a movepool, which honestly doesn't affect anything considering we have plenty of characters that were limited in their source material. Jus' saying.
I stand corrected about the non-Nintendo issue, though. I concede there.

Movepool was just something extra I tossed in, feel free to ignore it.

Being recognised more for an anime than a game is not grounds for inelligibility. Otherwise we wouldn't have the likes of Lucario, who attained his popularity from the movie that he starred in.

Agreed

Sakurai's exact criteria was this:
-The character must have originated in a video game.
-The character must have been on a Nintendo system.
So I was wrong about KOS-MOS not fitting the 2nd point already when I thought Project X Zone was her only Nintendo appearance as it refers to the characters themselves, not the series they come from.
But this is about Digimon, not KOS-MOS. This means that for example, someone like say, Shoutmon from Xros Wars is ineligible as he debuted in the anime (at least to my knowledge). But Agumon, Greymon, and even Metalgreymon (but not Wargreymon) are fair game as they debuted in the virtual pets.

Agreed

And the virtual pets, being similar to the old Game & Watches, count as video games.
So no, it's not like adding Goku, who debuted in the Dragon Ball manga.

Disagree, saying a Virtual Pet is a videogame is like saying a Visual Novel is a video game. They are both electronic media with video-game like properties, but they aren't actually "Games," therefore they can't be classified as such. However that argument is irrelevant as it was already established Digimon had a videogame before the anime series.

Honestly, KOS-MOS, Bayonetta, and the Digimon all qualify under "wild dreams".


No offense, but this honestly doesn't mean anything in regards to Smash. Being catered to a "hardcore" audience doesn't do anything for her chances, which are overstated, no matter the reason she gets support.

Once again, I disagree. KOS-MOS has better chances than Digimon for previously stated reasons. However her chances are still very slim. And that's fine. Digimon as I already said, is not correlated WITH Nintendo, that is very important for a 3rd party guest character. Digimon, is of NO importance to Nintendo, whatsoever. Having a couple games here and there on Nintendo consoles is NOT good enough. If Digimon World had come out on N64 instead of Playstation, then things would be different. Snake began on Nintendo and thus why he got in. Sonic got in mostly out of popular demand, but also he DOES have an indirect correlation to Nintendo being Mario's longtime rival. Megaman also began on Nintendo, same for Travis Touchdown, and Simon Belmont.

And yes, this argument applies to Xenosaga as well, I'm aware of that. Xenosaga has little correlation to Nintendo, thus why it has such slim chance, the only benefit on Xenosaga's part, as I already said, is that it's not very well known in the west, thus this actually helps it chances rather than hurt them if Namco is looking to promote the franchise in the West by introducing it through Smash, and then making Nintendo Exclusive games (seeing as Sony is dying, this would be a wise move), a la Fire Emblem. However, that's a whole different story.

Digimon, can't do this. It's already popular in the East and West, and people already have their opinions and perspectives on the franchise, ideas that are difficult to change. Once again, a couple side games on Nintendo consoles are NOT enough, and Digimon is unlikely to get a "hardcore" reboot in the West, as that wave has already passed and gone over here. The only ones left really are Pokemon, and to a lesser extent Yu-Gi-Oh (because of the TCG), and SMT.

Now, onto Bayonetta. Being catered to a more "mature" audience has everything to do with her chances. You cannot forget that Smash Bros is a great Marketing tool. Thus why we got Roy in Melee, and why got Lucario in Brawl. Not to mention how it promoted sales for: Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Metroid, Mother, and even Game & Watch. It single-handedly brought back a wave of "retro" gaming back when Melee was released. We had a bunch of old-school Mario remakes on the GBA, a bunch of G&W games and cards, and fueled a well marketed nostalgia phase that took a couple years to wear off. That was Nintendo's marketing strategy back in the early 2000's, and from they looks of things they seem to want to market towards the "mature" gamers this time around, bringing us "hardcore" and difficult games such as Bayonetta, and Monster Hunter as WiiU exclusives. Not to mention their launch library is filled with what used to be PS3 exclusive. Case and point, Nintendo wants to pull in what Sony pulled in, in the PS2 era. Therefore, having Bayonetta in Smash, not only would be a good way to draw attention to the game for new players from "Sony" consoles, but also help promote Nintendo's new Marketing strategy and place Nintendo in the eyes of consumers and "not just the casual Babby" console, but a well balance entertainment system for all audiences from casuals to more serious gamers. That is why Bayonetta has a decent chance. I repeat myself, Platinum games going WiiU EXCLUSIVE, is bigger news than you give it credit for. PlatGames are known for making insane titles like Metal Gear Rising and the like. They are a well reputed Developer, and the fact that they work only under Nintendo now is great news for this next gen (at least on Nintendo's behalf), because, as we saw in the "Golden Era" with Rare, Nintendo works very well with exclusive 3rd party companies, they give them the right amount of freedom to allow them to work as they like, but still keep them in check so they don't produce garbage. We may just see a rebirth in the industry.

Now if only Nintendo would buy Rare's old IPs off Microsoft, and have Retro work with them. Or better yet, Microsoft goes for broke and drops the whole gaming charade. I'd honestly rather have Sony over M$ any day. Sony's not a bad company, they just make foolish decisions. M$ on the other hand can go die in a fire.

 

[3Bismyname]

Which brings me to my second point. Pokemon is Nintendo's Monster Franchise. Just like we won't see Shin Megami Tensei demons, nor Yu-Gi-Oh! Monsters, nor DQ Joker Monsters, nor any of the 1000 other monster franchises out there as playable, we won't see Digimon. They are all rival franchises to Pokemon, and Digimon in particular

Couldn't this argument have been applied towards Sonic when he joined Brawl. being that he was a platformer like Mario and that Sonic was created for the purpose of beating Mario. but Sonic got in regardless. so your point becomes invalid.

, is the furthest thing possible from being "Nintendo-ey." People DO NOT correlate Digimon with Nintendo, and putting them in a Nintendo Tribute Fighting Game is ludicrous. That train of thinking alone should be clue enough as to why Digimon ARE NOT plausible characters for Smash Bros. Now I agree, this same argument can be used for Xenosaga, and you are welcome to use it if you like. The only plus on Xenosaga's part is that it's less known in the West, and thus it feels less "out of place" in a Smash Universe. But the argument still stands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFlSvJ3VWqs
Yeah that looks nothing like anything Nintendo would do.

except this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQKdfan0Vc


and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3S20FQ3pwg&playnext=1&list=PL7A6737C3BB92AFC5&feature=results_video

Anyway you already said yourself that this argument applies for your choices so no point beating a dead horse.

And yes, this argument applies to Xenosaga as well, I'm aware of that. Xenosaga has little correlation to Nintendo, thus why it has such slim chance, the only benefit on Xenosaga's part, as I already said, is that it's not very well known in the west, thus this actually helps it chances rather than hurt them if Namco is looking to promote the franchise in the West by introducing it through Smash, and then making Nintendo Exclusive games

that doesn't benefit Xenosaga in the slightest. if anything that hurts their chances more than anything. unless you have some sort of inside Knowledge of Nintendo that none of us know of, I don't think Nintendo is 100% interested in making Xenosaga an exclusive. business wise it makes sense but there's nothing that has hinted to that.

seeing as Sony is dying, this would be a wise move

well thats just not true at all.

everything else you said i'm sure someone else smarter than i can tell you why your wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Couldn't this argument have been applied towards Sonic when he joined Brawl. being that he was a platformer like Mario and that Sonic was created for the purpose of beating Mario. but Sonic got in regardless. so your point becomes invalid.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFlSvJ3VWqs
Yeah that looks nothing like anything Nintendo would do.

except this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auQKdfan0Vc


and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3S20FQ3pwg&playnext=1&list=PL7A6737C3BB92AFC5&feature=results_video

Anyway you already said yourself that this argument applies for your choices so no point beating a dead horse.

I don't understand what you're trying to prove with those videos, but whatever. Anyway, read my most recent post on the topic of Digimon, I answer your doubts about Sonic there. Sonic got in not just because of the insane popular demand, but because he DOES have an indirect correlation to Nintendo. Digimon has none. A couple sidegames don't count. The DS Digimon World games, aren't part of the main series. They're more like spinoffs, kinda like how you have the main SMT series and then the Persona series as a spinoff of SMT, capiche?

My argument, applies for my Namco choices, but I also state why Xenosaga still has a better chance than Digimon. It's still slim, but there is a clear distinction given the circumstances. Also just because:

A=X doesn't mean B=Y

So just because my choices are "wrong" doesn't mean yours are right, so that's that. Remember the central point of the argument. It was that Digimon has NO chance. Xenosaga still has some chance, albeit miniscule.

Bayonetta is a whole different monster though.

that doesn't benefit Xenosaga in the slightest. if anything that hurts their chances more than anything. unless you have some sort of inside Knowledge of Nintendo that none of us know of, I don't think Nintendo is 100% interested in making Xenosaga an exclusive. business wise it makes sense but there's nothing that has hinted to that.

How exactly does it hurt its chances then? Quit contradicting my statements without some support. You need to give REASONS to your statements if you wanna be taken seriously. On the second part, that's nothing but speculation. Just like we have no sure-fire way of predicting the roster and can only speculate give the little info we're given, we can do the same to predict the moves of companies. There is no way we can predict what can happen, but we can take educated guesses.

well thats just not true at all.

Yes it is. The Vita was a total flop, they have NO plans for a PS4 as of yet. They lost TONS of money on the PS3, the PSP is pirate-ware, and 3D TV's were a stupid investment. Not to mention the Move crashed and Burned and they're losing all their exclusive titles. Their stocks have also been plummeting, and before you cry "economic crisis" Japan was one of the countries least affected by the Credit Burst, they've been in recession since THEIR bubble burst back in 1990. Allthewhile, their Multinationals have remained strong. Sony's sudden drop is NOT completely related to the bubble, but rather due to very, very foolish decisions. Next time I'm on /v/ I'll see if I can save the links to Sony's stocks and the like.

everything else you said i'm sure someone else smarter than i can tell you why your wrong.

And that was just plain stupid, and uncalled for. If you can't fight your own battles don't expect others to do it for you, 0/10, step your game up kid.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't understand what you're trying to prove with those videos, but whatever. Anyway, read my most recent post on the topic of Digimon, I answer your doubts about Sonic there. Sonic got in not just because of the insane popular demand, but because he DOES have an indirect correlation to Nintendo. Digimon has none. A couple sidegames don't count. The DS Digimon World games, aren't part of the main series. They're more like spinoffs, kinda like how you have the main SMT series and then the Persona series as a spinoff of SMT, capiche?

As far as the Digimon thing goes, I think 3B misunderstood you to mean that Digimon doesn't fit well with the Nintendo asthetic.

 

[Deleted member]

@Manly: Snake did not start with Nintendo.
Snake started on the MSX2 home computer system, with the original Metal Gear being altered and ported to the NES outside Japan (without Kojima's involvement nor praise).


And no, I'm giving Platinum as much credit as it needs as there is no statement about the company itself going Wii U exclusive. Just that two titles, Bayonetta 2 (due to Nintendo publishing it), and The Wonderful 101 (also due to Nintendo publishing it) are Wii U exclusives. Care to lay a source that says otherwise?
Metal Gear Rising is not even out yet, and that's still PS360 with no Wii U version in sight. Same with Anarchy Reigns. Never mind, that already came out in Japan.

 

[Deleted member]

As far as the Digimon thing goes, I think 3B misunderstood you to mean that Digimon doesn't fit well with the Nintendo asthetic.

Ahh OK, but that doesn't make much sense then. He showed me 3 different RPGs. ALL RPGs function under similar aesthetics. Not to mention the games he showed aren't even developed by Nintendo, they're developed by tertiary companies and produced by Nintendo. If we're gonna look at the Nintendo aesthetic might as well stick to Mario, Zelda, and... well anything Miyamotto, and Aounuma are in charge of. But even then, that's a tough call as Nintendo always lets other companies work with their IPs.

Anway, as far as what I actually meant, well he can read my newer posts. It's all crystal clear there...


EDIT: to include GY
@GY

@Manly: Snake did not start with Nintendo.
Snake started on the MSX2 home computer system, with the original Metal Gear being altered and ported to the NES outside Japan (without Kojima's involvement nor praise).


And no, I'm giving Platinum as much credit as it needs as there is no statement about the company itself going Wii U exclusive. Just that two titles, Bayonetta 2 (due to Nintendo publishing it), and The Wonderful 101 (also due to Nintendo publishing it) are Wii U exclusives. Care to lay a source that says otherwise?
Metal Gear Rising is not even out yet, and that's still PS360 with no Wii U version in sight. Same with Anarchy Reigns. Never mind, that already came out in Japan.

Mkay, I'll give you the Snake bit, I did a bit of digging myself and yep you're right. Then Snake is simply a very, VERY special case. It's simply because Sakurai and Kojima are bros. Because outside of that, his inclusion is completely unjustified. So unless the head of Bandai is really close to Sakurai and BEGS like Kojima did, we're not seeing Digimon in Smash.

Metal Gear Rising is irrelevant to the topic, my mention of it was simply to point out one of the titles they are notorious for. Peoples expectations of it are VERY high because they know it's PG and therefore KNOW it's gonna be good. So far, people said the Demo was flawless. WiiU has nothing to do with MGR so don't misinterpret my words.

As for the source on PlatGames, well that's the impression I was under given what I heard, I'll have to give you the source when I come across it again, given it was posted on 4chan and I didn't bother to save it. I'll dig through the archives some other day as I'm tired and that could take hours.

In the meantime, these should do:

http://www.polygon.com/gaming/2012/...t-exist-without-nintendo-platinum-games-wii-u
http://www.destructoid.com/platinum-games-explains-bayonetta-2-wii-u-exclusivity-235008.phtml

Long story short goes like this. PlatGames has been working under SEGA, PG wanted to make Bayo2 and other titles. SEGA is under financial strain and thus cutting titles. SEGA says "NO" to PG's request. PG looks for opportunities, and Nintendo gives a warming welcome. Bayo2 and as you said Wonderful101 are now WiiU exclusive, PG is no no longer working for SEGA, but under Nintendo instead, in the same way Retro does. Not sure on the extent of their contract however. But one thing is for certain, Bayo2 is WiiU EXCLUSIVE, meaning there won't be ports on other consoles. That gives us a lot of information on what Nintendo wants to do, if you follow suit, you can then look at the next possible moves for them to make. A simple extrapolation is all it takes.

 

[3Bismyname]

@Manly: you repeatedly tell me to get proof but you repeatedly have no proof of any of you claims either. Like the whole Xenosaga being a Nintendo Exclusive. you said yourself how you were taking an educated guess and yet you tell me that i need proof. you cite no sources either nor do you provide any links so it's hard to take you anymore seriously than me.

I'm not saying Digimon is better than your choices, but they are just as plausible and you seem to can't except that point. you continually say they have 0 chance but that's just not true. yes people associate Digimon with anime, but the fact is they still meet all Sakurai's requirements just like yours do. they have had a far better relationship than either Bayonetta or Xenosaga has so far with more games being exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Digimon would work well in Smash, better than a lot of characters people fully support and your character would work alright as well. but no better than Digimon would.

 

[Frostwraith]

@Manly: you repeatedly tell me to get proof but you repeatedly have no proof of any of you claims either. Like the whole Xenosaga being a Nintendo Exclusive. you said yourself how you were taking an educated guess and yet you tell me that i need proof. you cite no sources either nor do you provide any links so it's hard to take you anymore seriously than me.

I'm not saying Digimon is better than your choices, but they are just as plausible and you seem to can't except that point. you continually say they have 0 chance but that's just not true. yes people associate Digimon with anime, but the fact is they still meet all Sakurai's requirements just like yours do. they have had a far better relationship than either Bayonetta or Xenosaga has so far with more games being exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Digimon would work well in Smash, better than a lot of characters people fully support and your character would work alright as well. but no better than Digimon would.

well, it's a little ambiguous whether or not Digimon are eligible.

the question is: can virtual pets be considered video games?

before we discuss any further about Digimon, we may want to discuss this question.

I mean, you could argue that a virtual pet is as a game, much like Game & Watch are games too, right?

depending on your point of view, Digimon may or may not be eligible for SSB4.

 

[Deleted member]

@Manly: you repeatedly tell me to get proof but you repeatedly have no proof of any of you claims either. Like the whole Xenosaga being a Nintendo Exclusive.

When did I ever say that? I never said Xenosaga was a Nintendo exclusive... Where are you getting this-? How? What?

I've backed up my claims with either sources or a logical reason at the least. If you want sources for any claims I've made you want to do more reading on, feel free to ask for them, I'll be glad to give them to you (except for the Xenosaga bit, because I would never make such a ridiculous claim).

I'm not saying Digimon is better than your choices, but they are just as plausible and you seem to can't except that point. you continually say they have 0 chance but that's just not true. yes people associate Digimon with anime, but the fact is they still meet all Sakurai's requirements just like yours do. they have had a far better relationship than either Bayonetta or Xenosaga has so far with more games being exclusive to Nintendo consoles. Digimon would work well in Smash, better than a lot of characters people fully support and your character would work alright as well. but no better than Digimon would.

Just because a franchise meets all of Sakurai's requirements doesn't mean they automatically have a chance. Digimon hasn't really been relevant in years, and there hasn't been a huge critically acclaimed game for the franchise in a loooong time, let alone on a Nintendo console. The best Digimon game is arguably Digimon World 1, and that's on the PS. The number of games is not as important as how popular and renowned those games are, looking at it that way, both Bayonetta and Xenosaga to a much lesser extend stand above Digimon. Next, I already said Snake was a very special case, he got in because of Hideo Kojima's relationship with Sakurai. So unless the head of Bandai has the same connections, forget about it. The same way I dropped the idea of having a God Eater rep, it just ain't happening.

Also, I'm still not convinced on how Digimon would work well with Smash, if you open a Digimon support thread and post your moveset ideas and how they would work, we can discuss it there. Also, just because people will support a character who doesn't fit well doesn't mean you idea has better chances. I've seen some damn ridiculous ideas here and elsewhere, and I've argued tooth and nail against them as well. I repeat myself, if you're enthusiastic about a character and want to garner support, then your best bet is to make a solid plan of your ideas and present them. Pokemon Trainer got in Brawl pretty much because of that. I still remember seeing the ideas suggesting the character back in 2005/06. Otherwise, simply consider it a pipe dream and get to working on a PSA.


EDIT: to include Frostwraith

well, it's a little ambiguous whether or not Digimon are eligible.

the question is: can virtual pets be considered video games?

before we discuss any further about Digimon, we may want to discuss this question.

I mean, you could argue that a virtual pet is as a game, much like Game & Watch are games too, right?

depending on your point of view, Digimon may or may not be eligible for SSB4.

I'm of the opinion they are not, why?

Simple, the level of interaction and immersion in Virtual Pets is very minimal. Just because something is on an electronic device with which you can have some sort of interaction doesn't mean (side note: I've just become aware of how frequently I'm using this pattern of speech(just because... doesn't mean) it's a sign that it's getting late and I need sleep) that it is automatically a videogame. Once again, I'll cite Visual Novels as an example. Has anyone in here ever "played" a Visual Novel? By form, aesthetic and many other factors, they are essentially games. However, most people make a division and classify VNs in their own category, as in heart they are really a lot more like books. Sure you can make choices, and sure like a book, they immerse you in the story. But if MuvLuv Alternative, or Stein's Gate, or Saya no Uta, or Fate Stay Night are Video Games, then so is Harry Potter, or an even better comparison, Goosebumps. Visual Novels and Virtual Pets make the best comparison, because they both posses videogame-like qualities, but truly they differ very vastly from a video game simply because their role and form of entertainment are very VERY different from a videogame. Virtual Pets, take on a very passive role, where the user doesn't actively interact with the device when it's in "use." Really, VN's have more videogame-like qualities, yet fans still make the distinction because in the Japanese PC market, it can be difficult to draw a line, as there are several actual Videogames, that have VN-like qualities. Example, Sengoku Rance.

So, to sum it up:
>Muv Luv
not a videogame
>virtual pets
not videogames
>Sengoku Rance
DING DING DING, a videogame

 

[Deleted member]

That is jumping to conclusions based on very little information.
Just because Bayonetta 2 is a Nintendo exclusive does not mean the company itself is going to be.
After all, they are an independant video game company. It's just that they had a four game deal with Sega (which resulted in MadWorld, Infinite Space, Bayonetta, and Vanquish). Then they tried to expand on this and a 5th game, Anarchy Reigns was made. They were never working for Sega, nor are they working for Nintendo now. The Retro example is not a good one, as they are a subsidiary of Nintendo like Hal Labs.

Platinum Studios is still a 3rd Party company. And without current involvement with Smash like NB, it would take either creator/company request or Sonic-level demand from the fanbase for a character to even be possible. Neither has happened, other than a passing mention from Kamiya saying that her being in Smash "sounds fun", which is no different from Akihiro Hino stating that Prof. Layton in Smash would be a "wonderful opportunity" back in 2009 (and considering Prof. Layton's track record with Nintendo....).
And don't hold your breath on the fan demand, for as long as a certain blue robot boy exists....and even HE has yet to reach that level in demand....

And "head of Bandai"? You are aware that the game company is now Namco Bandai Games (which is the company helping with Smash 4), right? It handles all the games for Namco and Bandai franchises, which means they own the rights to the Digimon franchise, since it started as a game, whether you choose to count the virtual pets or refer to Digital Monster Ver. S: Digimon Tamers as the first "real" game. So yeah....much more feasible to imagine than Bayonetta, but equally feasible to KOS-MOS.

EDIT: If virtual pets don't count, then by all means, the following things:

Should not have happened.

The Game & Watch "games" were not "real" video games, similar to the virtual pets.
And if you try to use the "well, it's Nintendo" excuse, then by all means, we should have had Ash Ketchum instead of Pokemon Trainer since rules can be broken for Nintendo characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Game and Watch is not a virtual pet series that's for sure. It may use LCD technology similar to a calculator, but it's defiantly not a virtual pet simulator similar to Tamagachi. It's instead a series of arcade styled game, where the objective is to get the highest score by performing different actions depending on the game.

 

[3Bismyname]

i say virtual pets are essentially a poor mans game boy. i mean there's really nothing about them to suggest that they aren't a type of video game. you pick em up, play with the creature in it, feed it etc. there are plenty of games like that.

by definition: A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video display device. so by that definition Virtual pets are considered video games because a human interacts with an electronic game and visual feedback is a result on said device so yeah it counts.

 

[Deleted member]

Just looked up about digital pets, and it's a sub-genre of simulation video games.
Ergo, they are video games; case closed.

 

[Reyson]

Can one of you folks that love Digimon finally make a damn support thread for it already? Any time someone tries to put this thread more on the topic of roster discussions, someone starts talking about Digimon again and we get another page filled with that.
There's plenty of support threads for unlikely and near-impossible characters, so what's stopping you from making one for characters you consider one of the major contenders for the Namco-Bandai spot?
It might give the rest of us an idea of wth you're talking about and how it's supposed to work.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well, it's a little ambiguous whether or not Digimon are eligible.

the question is: can virtual pets be considered video games?

Yes, they're video games. They're the first handhelds.

before we discuss any further about Digimon, we may want to discuss this question.

I mean, you could argue that a virtual pet is as a game, much like Game & Watch are games too, right?

Fact: They are video games.

depending on your point of view, Digimon may or may not be eligible for SSB4.

It's really not a matter of point of view, they are eligible by 100% means. However, I admit that I really don't see them being in right now. If only because while they originated in a video game(tamagotchi, and the fact that there's Pokemon versions of those too...). They also had Nintendo appearances.(mainly handheld, though. I can't say how popular they were, as the console ones weren't met with tons of love, although the first 3 Digimon Worlds were kind of liked, but 4 was despised for being a terrible Gauntlet clone, as in it had the style, but just plain sucked).

Digimon has a fairly poor console track record. The handhelds I believe were met with a bit more love, even having games done similarly to Pokemon with the whole two versions.(at base level, I have no idea how exclusives are done. You'll have to ask an expect on that one)

The anime is definitely very popular as it had less stupid characters like Ash. The main hero is similarly stupid, except he actually wins in the end, and makes better decisions at a reasonable pace. Also, all the heroes will be released in a video game later on, with an anime super crossover(based upon the last anime sub-season, Xross, which its second season has a giant crossover of every hero)

Anyway, I don't see them unviable, as they fit in beyond perfectly. I do not see Sakurai necessarily choosing them without fan want, though. It's true that a lot want Digimon VS Pokemon, but after Pokemon slaughtered it game-wise, the want for that diminished by a lot.(it's not 0%, though) However, if Bandai releases Xross worldwide, as well as their super crossover game(even if the crossover game isn't on a Nintendo system), there's a bit more likely chance for people to be interested.