Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[FalKoopa]

Releasing both games side by side seems like a dumb idea imo. Not only that, but I feel it would hurt the overall quality of both titles.

Not necessarily. And then, Sakurai can always announce delays to troll us.

 

[Big-Cat]

What? Selling one a year after the other?

Pokemon does it all the time, as does CoD. The casual Market would eat that **** up as it would be a New Smash Bros. in a sense, especially if they include some 3DS only exclusive characters or something.

Something like: Buy this game and you get these new characters, which you can then transfer to your WiiU version, Also, after a while they can be made DLC characters for those without a 3DS. It would be a brilliant marketing move imo.

In fact, that would be great as then they can split the development process and ensure that the games don't compete with each other as they would if they were released simultaneously. Not only that, but you keep the hype train rolling for another year or so.

I should mention that this is of course assuming both games are made into different gaming experiences rather than the 3DS version a port of the WiiU one.


Is this the birth of a new meme?

This reminds me of Street Fighter X Tekken. The problem is that they tried a similar thing only for it to fall flat on their faces big time. Everyone found out about the on disc DLC characters and the Vita version of the game bombed horribly. The entire thing would have to be marketed and implemented very carefully. Smash fans always criticize other games for coming out with "meaningless" updates, but this is quite possibly the first Smash game to do this (and IMO, a lot of Nintendo fans are out of touch with the rest of the gaming communities). The 3DS version can easily be the updated version of the Wii U version in a vein similar to how BlazBlue Continuum Shift II was on the 3DS and was released as a patch on the consoles.

Something simple like Super Smash Bros. [Whatever]+ or some fancy symbol along with showing the newcomers on the cover art will incite people to go get the 3DS version. This, however, can fail horribly in PR as people will think that their WiiU version is obsolete and don't want to go buy a 3DS and another copy of the game. My suggestion to this is to do a physical release of the update as an option, but you also have access to the patch option. The question of getting this message out properly is a tough one. When's the last time you saw a TV commercial announcing a patch to a game?

 

[N3ON]

Honestly the furthest I see the games releasing is within a few months of each other. I very much doubt it'll be a whole year. And it's not like they'll be the exact same thing.

Sorry Kellam.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

SSB4 Challenge/Discussion #9: Five Bosses To Rule Them All

Bosses have always been a important part of the Smash Bros series, starting with Master Hand in the original and leading up many classic bosses such as Ridley and Porky in Brawl. Because of this, especially with what was done in Brawl, it would be likely to see even more bosses appear in the next installment. No matter if there is a new Subspace styled story and/or the classic mode.

We all have bosses we would like to see appear in the game. Name your TOP FIVE you want to see and EXPLAIN your reasons why? How would the boss battle go? Would it be an interesting battle?

Enjoy

(My top FIVE in the picture)

The bosses chosen could have impact on who might be in the roster. Or visa versa.

 

[Deleted member]

This reminds me of Street Fighter X Tekken. The problem is that they tried a similar thing only for it to fall flat on their faces big time. Everyone found out about the on disc DLC characters and the Vita version of the game bombed horribly. The entire thing would have to be marketed and implemented very carefully. Smash fans always criticize other games for coming out with "meaningless" updates, but this is quite possibly the first Smash game to do this (and IMO, a lot of Nintendo fans are out of touch with the rest of the gaming communities). The 3DS version can easily be the updated version of the Wii U version in a vein similar to how BlazBlue Continuum Shift II was on the 3DS and was released as a patch on the consoles.

Something simple like Super Smash Bros. [Whatever]+ or some fancy symbol along with showing the newcomers on the cover art will incite people to go get the 3DS version. This, however, can fail horribly in PR as people will think that their WiiU version is obsolete and don't want to go buy a 3DS and another copy of the game. My suggestion to this is to do a physical release of the update as an option, but you also have access to the patch option. The question of getting this message out properly is a tough one. When's the last time you saw a TV commercial announcing a patch to a game?

Yeah, I remember that whole ordeal and people were rightfully pissed.

What I'm saying isn't developing the characters and leaving them on-disk. I'm saying spending the development time for the 3DS version AFTER the WiiU one is released to give us new content, especially new characters which you can either download with DLC or port over to your game. That would give just about everyone incentive to buy the 3DS version. Especially since such a DLC pack could go for around $15, which is more than 1/3 of a 3DS title.

Blazblue does that all the time with it's update games and people aren't bothered by it because they were post development additions.

Hell, the 3DS characters could be characters that couldn't be finished due to time constraints. Thus giving people the DLC they've wanted, plus a new game that makes more sense to buy. It just seems like a logical move to me. Lets just see what Nintendo does.

@DSN

Who's Deko?

 

[Oasis_S]

You could quit trying to think of ways to sneaky snake out of doing the best option: Making two different games that are equally good and gives each other a bonus for buying both versions. Besides, it's not like they need to be equally as successful.

 

[Big-Cat]

Thing is, I can see why Capcom did what they did with the DLC characters. Those characters weren't finished (balance wise) and were likely easing DLC costs and preventing later on compatibility issues. Still, the way they went about the whole thing in the end was awful.

The thing I wonder about though is porting over the characters. The only thing I can see working is that the characters are later patched in, but require an unlock key either in the form of paying for the key (DLC) or using your 3DS as the key.

But yes, BlazBlue's additions were entirely post development. Back on the vanilla versions of Continuum Shift, all you had of Makoto, Valkenhayn, and Platinum were their themes and insignia - not even their character art which made Platinum very mysterious. Note, I'm not saying this to you specifically as I'm sure you know the story. This is for anyone else reading this.

You could quit trying to think of ways to sneaky snake out of doing the best option: Making two different games that are equally good and gives each other a bonus for buying both versions. Besides, it's not like they need to be equally as successful.

Except that would be highly time and cost inefficient. You can't just make two separate games just like that. Considering they're going for cross platform interactivity, it would be for the best if the two were identical in gameplay, including stages.

 

[ChronoBound]

You could quit trying to think of ways to sneaky snake out of doing the best option: Making two different games that are equally good and gives each other a bonus for buying both versions. Besides, it's not like they need to be equally as successful.

This is what I see Sakurai doing.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Yeah, I don't really see the need in releasing the two games seperate

@Bosses discussion- Giratina (both forms) and Robotnik

 

[Deleted member]

You could quit trying to think of ways to sneaky snake out of doing the best option: Making two different games that are equally good and gives each other a bonus for buying both versions. Besides, it's not like they need to be equally as successful.

When you're running a business you do. Since your biggest goal is to make money.

It's not really being Sneaky, it's not you're being Capcom or EA and putting On-disk DLC which you can only get through pre-orders.

Releasing both games side by side is only gonna cut into the development time and resources for the main title. It'll be Brawl all over again where because of a needless central focus (SSE) the rest of the game was rather lackluster in contrast to its predecessor. Not only that, but releasing the games side by side will only hurt both titles as only the very hard-core fans are gonna bother to pick up both versions. Create a large enough release window and suddenly you give people enough time to get hyped for the next release. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing, and this is a perfect example of why.

It's not like I'm suggesting a CoD-like example where Ninty's gonna churn out yearly rehashes of the same game with minor updates. I'm basically suggesting what Activision SHOULD have done with that IP.

 

[8-peacock-8]

SSB4 Challenge/Discussion #9: Five Bosses To Rule Them All

Bosses have always been a important part of the Smash Bros series, starting with Master Hand in the original and leading up many classic bosses such as Ridley and Porky in Brawl. Because of this, especially with what was done in Brawl, it would be likely to see even more bosses appear in the next installment. No matter if there is a new Subspace styled story and/or the classic mode.

We all have bosses we would like to see appear in the game. Name your TOP FIVE you want to see and EXPLAIN your reasons why? How would the boss battle go? Would it be an interesting battle?

Enjoy

(My top FIVE in the picture)

The bosses chosen could have impact on who might be in the roster. Or visa versa.

King Boo - since you listed the other two bosses i want. (Metal Face and Medusa)

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Then I think THIS:


would be the best move. From a business standpoint. Releasing both games side by side seems like a dumb idea imo. Not only that, but I feel it would hurt the overall quality of both titles.

It's a horrible move. It's anti-consumerism at its worst.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

@DSN

Who's Deko?

The final boss of Sin & Punishment Star Successor, he used to be friends with Isa.

 

[ChronoBound]

It's a horrible move. It's anti-consumerism at its worst.

Are you talking about Sakurai's idea or MS's idea?

 

[FalKoopa]

For bosses, I'd like to see Giga bowser, Ghirahim, Hades, Eggman, and a dragon from FE.

 

[Oasis_S]

Except that would be highly time and cost inefficient. You can't just make two separate games just like that. Considering they're going for cross platform interactivity, it would be for the best if the two were identical in gameplay, including stages.

You can make two separate games with 2 or so years of development time, one of the largest and most experienced development teams you can imagine, and a big fat budget. And I agree they'll be sharing the same roster, as well as a few assets, but otherwise each version will be tailored for an experience best suited for their respective console.

I mean, geez, aren't you the one who suggested they cut down on the roster size and focus more on balance and revamping characters just because it might be a bit difficult making a few new characters?

Remember when I said you don't know what you're talking about?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

For bosses, I'd like to see Giga bowser, Ghirahim, Hades, Eggman, and a dragon from FE.

I am assuming the second one is a playable character who is also a boss?

 

[Deleted member]

It's a horrible move. It's anti-consumerism at its worst.

What?

Are you implying rampant consumerism is a good thing?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Are you talking about Sakurai's idea or MS's idea?

MS's idea, that should've been obvious.

 

[Moon Monkey]

King Boo is an excellent Boss choice.
And Since I as well as others would like to see King K. Rool. I wouldn't mind to see Tiki Tong as a Boss

 

[FalKoopa]

I am assuming the second one is a playable character who is also a boss?

I'm not really a fan of Ghirahim tbh, but as they say, the more the merrier.

 

[Capain Puff]

SSB4 Challenge/Discussion #9: Five Bosses To Rule Them All

Bosses have always been a important part of the Smash Bros series, starting with Master Hand in the original and leading up many classic bosses such as Ridley and Porky in Brawl. Because of this, especially with what was done in Brawl, it would be likely to see even more bosses appear in the next installment. No matter if there is a new Subspace styled story and/or the classic mode.

We all have bosses we would like to see appear in the game. Name your TOP FIVE you want to see and EXPLAIN your reasons why? How would the boss battle go? Would it be an interesting battle?

Enjoy

The bosses chosen could have impact on who might be in the roster. Or visa versa.

At first, let all bosses from Brawl return. I didn't really think of the battlestyle of the newcomer bosses and such yet. As newcomer bosses I would like to see:

-Mewtwo

-Fawful

-Kyurem

-Medusa

-Game & Watch's Octopus

They're in no specific order.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I'm not really a fan of Ghirahim tbh, but as they say, the more the merrier.

I just see Ghirahim as playable and Demise as the boss

 

[N3ON]

I am assuming the second one is a playable character who is also a boss?

Anyway, Ghirahim would make a good boss if he progressively changes forms and then [collapse=I miss spoiler tags] eventually just resurrects Demise, who is then fought. Actually I don't care about Ghirahim as much as I just think Demise would be an awesome boss. [/collapse]

 

[Deleted member]

You can make two CRAPPY games with 2 or so years of development time, one of the largest development teams you can imagine, and a big fat budget.

What are you? A game developer? This has already been proven wrong before. Look at Call of Duty, that's EXACTLY what they have, and each MW title is hardly an improvement over the last, and they are only trying to make ONE game. You don't realize how much time goes into making a video games. Big budgets mean squat if you don't have the time. Most of the budgets in videogames go into PAYING devs. Money isn't magic, it doesn't magically create programs for you. You do realize a lot of devs work long hours and even sleep in their offices to get they work done right? Doesn't matter how big the team is, larger teams mean more stressful management. We've seen gems come out from small teams who were given plenty of time to work on a game. The biggest thing ANY game developer needs to make a good game isn't money or resources, it's time.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Anyway, Ghirahim would make a good boss if he progressively changes forms and then [collapse=I miss spoiler tags] eventually just resurrects Demise, who is then fought. Actually I don't care about Ghirahim as much as I just think Demise would be an awesome boss. [/collapse]

Well Ghirahim is playable and a boss in the story mode (whose Final Smash, the final form, is his last battle) and it leads up to the Demise battle

 

[Croph]

@Boss disscussion

I'm just gonna leave this here:

My Ridiculous Ideas

Spoiler

Bosses

Mewtwo

Roy

Story Mode: Revenge of the Rejects

Mewtwo persuades Roy into joining him to take over the Smash World. The duo starts to wreak havoc and brings in reinforcements to help: Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Pichu. However, the sadistic presumed "kid" creates an evil embodiment capable of mass destruction, even more powerful than Tabuu. As the kid's mind slips into deeper insanity than what was seen in the previous installments, Mario & Co. need to beat Mewtwo and Roy, get them on their side, and stop the raging kid's creation from eradicating everything.

You'll battle Roy, then Mewtwo later on. After, they'll both challenge you to a tag team battle, with this music as the battle theme, with Eight Melodies and all.

 

[N3ON]

Well Ghirahim is playable and a boss in the story mode (whose Final Smash, the final form, is his last battle) and it leads up to the Demise battle

Oh, alright then Sakurai, my bad.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

What?

Are you implying rampant consumerism is a good thing?

Anti-consumerism refers to practices that treat customers like ****. Sakurai's plan is (seemingly) to have two versions of the game that have mostly similar features, yet are distinct enough so that you could own either/both and not feel like you're getting screwed somehow.

 

[Oasis_S]

When you're running a business you do. Since your biggest goal is to make money.

Does an apple farmer worry about making sure he sells an equal amount of red and green apples, or does he care that he just sold a poop-ton of apples. Sakurai's getting money no matter which version people buy so who cares. And he's not part of Nintendo so it's not his problem if he doesn't get a lot of people to buy Wii U's or whatever people are thinking is important.

 

[FalKoopa]

Well Ghirahim is playable and a boss in the story mode (whose Final Smash, the final form, is his last battle) and it leads up to the Demise battle

Wouldn't be a playable boss be strange?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Oh, alright then Sakurai, my bad.

Ok, no problem

Wouldn't be a playable boss be strange?

We have fought the likes of Metal Mario, who fights like Mario, and the dark characters in Brawl. They were like boss battles.

 

[Deleted member]

Anti-consumerism refers to practices that treat customers like ****. Sakurai's plan is (seemingly) to have two versions of the game that have mostly similar features, yet are distinct enough so that you could own either/both and not feel like you're getting screwed somehow.

I dunno if I should laugh or cry...

Is this the fruit of modern education??

Anti-consumerism:

Anti-consumerism is a socio-political ideology opposed to consumerism, which discourages an ever-growing purchasing and consumption of material possessions. Anti-consumerist activists express concern over modern corporations or organizations that pursue solely economic goals at the expense of environmental, social, or ethical concerns; these concerns overlap with those of environmental activism, anti-globalization, and animal-rights activism. One variation on this is the concept of postconsumers, who emphasize moving beyond addictive consumerism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-consumerism

ANTICONSUMERISM...
however, challenges many of the assumptions about what is needed in contemporary society. Taking the view that the rich nations of the world are fundamentally damaging the planet and themselves in the pursuit of material acquisition, it raises the question, "How much is enough?" Rather than just buying green or ethically-produced goods, different ways of living, trading and working are advocated in order to 'live more lightly' on the Earth and be less dependent on buying things to feel good about ourselves.

http://www.enough.org.uk/enough01.htm

You got me Toise, I dunno where to take this anymore with you. It's like I'm arguing with a child...

 

[Big-Cat]

Does an apple farmer worry about making sure he sells an equal amount of red and green apples, or does he care that he just sold a poop-ton of apples. Sakurai's getting money no matter which version people buy so who cares. And he's not part of Nintendo so it's not his problem if he doesn't get a lot of people to buy Wii U's or whatever people are thinking is important.

Maybe not equal amounts of money, but they want to have all of their apples to be profitable. When one type of apple takes all the attention away from the other apples in a given company, this is referred to as cannibalism. Cannibalism within the company becomes a big problem if one product takes away the market share of another product to the point that the "eaten" product's production costs are not offset by people buying said product.

 

[Metal Overlord]

lol you didn't really do anything to prove Toise's point wrong or even address it

all you did basically was talk down to him

 

[Oasis_S]

What are you? A game developer? This has already been proven wrong before. Look at Call of Duty, that's EXACTLY what they have, and each MW title is hardly an improvement over the last, and they are only trying to make ONE game. You don't realize how much time goes into making a video games. Big budgets mean squat if you don't have the time. Most of the budgets in videogames go into PAYING devs. Money isn't magic, it doesn't magically create programs for you. You do realize a lot of devs work long hours and even sleep in their offices to get they work done right? Doesn't matter how big the team is, larger teams mean more stressful management. We've seen gems come out from small teams who were given plenty of time to work on a game. The biggest thing ANY game developer needs to make a good game isn't money or resources, it's time.

I realize plenty, notably that bad analogies and being a bleeding heart in this case doesn't mean much.

ANYWAY, I've just been going with what Sakurai has alluded to, so there's no point in suggesting what might be better or fretting over how well Sakurai and his buddies are sleeping.

 

[Deleted member]

Does an apple farmer worry about making sure he sells an equal amount of red and green apples, or does he care that he just sold a poop-ton of apples. Sakurai's getting money no matter which version people buy so who cares. And he's not part of Nintendo so it's not his problem if he doesn't get a lot of people to buy Wii U's or whatever people are thinking is important.

You're not very keen on Japanese business practices. For one, when you work for a company over there, they practically OWN you. I've heard stories of people, foreigners, who have had to ask they companies permission to get interviewed. What's best for Nintendo is what's best for Sakurai. He's working under them.


2nd, it is Nintendo who dictates the releases and hardware plans for their games, not the developers, if they wanna release them separate, they will. Nintendo will do what they can to make sure these games do what they are meant to do, sell consoles, even if it means interfering with the development process. If Sakurai wants to release the titles side-by-side then he must make a cunning business proposition that will incite Nintendo to jump ship, much like what Pokemon did. Likewise, I think it's fair to assume that the games will push quality over quantity. That being said, if the games are gonna be pushed side-by-side under a connectivity gimmick, then expect a totally different Smash Bros from the one we've been speculating about for God knows how long now...

Also, don't use irrelevant analogies in a market that is far more complex.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, one thing for sure is that the 3DS version is going to be mediocre if it's really going to focus on a single player.

No matter which game, Super Smash Bros. always has a weak single player experience.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You guys are funny arguing about development of the game and Anti-consumerism....Get back to topic...it's a Roster topic not a SSB4 general topic.

Well, one thing for sure is that the 3DS version is going to be mediocre if it's really going to focus on a single player.

No matter which game, Super Smash Bros. always has a weak single player experience.

Tales Developers are working on SSB4 too you know, you gotta give them some credit...

 

[Big-Cat]

You guys are funny arguing about development of the game and Anti-consumerism....Get back to topic...it's a Roster topic not a SSB4 general topic.

Yet we were talking about the 3DS release being pushed back as updated version of the Wii U version with characters that couldn't be added in time originally.

And as I said yesterday, some games are not adaptive to being multiplayer games. Likewise, not all multiplayer games are adaptive to being compelling single player games. We saw the effects of such a thing with the SSE.