Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Deleted member]

However, the only character that can claim to have gotten in for the sole reasoning of being "retro" are the Ice Climbers.

Pit was strongly demanded. He got in, relevance be damned.


So while I hate the thought of Krystal in Smash, relevance is not really an issue. Though I agree that being retconned out of the series if (and that's a heavy "if") the series is rebooted to make Advenutres, Assault, and Command non-canon would not look that great for her...
I honestly would rather for the future games to make her a decent character to where I wouldn't be so heavily against her in Smash.
She's just so.....URG.

 

[ChronoBound]

Only source I can directly find (as I am too lazy right now after making a wall of text in another thread) is from TvTropes' page on Star Fox under the trope "Canon Discontinuity"

All that has to be done from now is find where that was said.

I would not trust heresay on TV Tropes.

 

[Deleted member]

You hardly trust anything, though.

EDIT: But as I said, it was the only source I found. Doesn't mean there aren't any more out there.
TVtropes was not the first place I heard of it.

 

[ChronoBound]

On to a new subject, I think if Sakurai has DLC for Smash 4, both Dr. Mario and Pichu will come back. I think even if Dr. Mario remains unchanged from Melee, he will still be plenty different from regular Mario since I am expecting them to change up the veterans a bit this time.

 

[Big-Cat]

Also, Kuma, I am curious what your reaction would be if the next Star Fox is a complete reboot starting off from 64?

First, I would hope that any characters debuting from post-64 aren't scrapped (save maybe for Command). Second, I hope the gameplay is good. Starfox has a lot of potential that I'd like to see tapped in to. Assault showed good potential with its on foot missions. I'd love to see some stealth missions and different missions played out by different characters.

 

[Deleted member]

DLC would be a fine option.
Then people like me who liked Doc can have him while people that hate him can simply not download him.

 

[volbound1700]

Donkey Kong starting appearing in Mario spinoffs starting with Mario Kart 64, before that it was Donkey Kong Jr.

Diddy Kong started appearing the Mario spinoffs a year after Microsoft bought Rare. After that Diddy Kong became almost a regular in them (outside of maybe the Mario Party games).

As for Namco characters in Mario games, the only Mario games in which Namco characters have appeared in were the arcade Mario Kart games.

Diddy Kong's first game was Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, but note that DK has been really the only major rep for his group in Mario Party and most Mario series.

No DK characters where in first Mario & Sonic Olympics game. Funky Kong did appear in Mario Kart Wii and as I stated other DK chars have been in the baseball game but other than that, the DK crew has been mostly absent from the Mario series (Note Diddy Kong was also not in Super Mario Strikers).

 

[ChronoBound]

DLC would be a fine option.
Then people like me who liked Doc can have him while people that hate him can simply not download him.

The problem is that those people will be forced to download Dr. Mario onto their 3DS/Wii U due to a patch that contains them (think about what would happen if you played with Dr. Mario online against a Doc hater that did not). However, a separate fee will be used to pay to "unlock" them from the patch.

However, I could very much see Sakurai being against the idea of paid DLC altogether, and if Iwata is still president by the time Smash 4 releases, I could see him allowing Sakurai to make DLC for Smash 4 free.

At the very least Dr. Mario and Pichu would require much less effort than other possible DLC characters. Dr. Mario would not need new voice files to be imported into the patch, and Pichu would not need time resources to be balanced since he is supposed to be terrible.

 

[Vintage Creep]

StarFox needs a complete reboot. He needs to be rebooted plot-wise and especially gameplay-wise.
A new Lylat Wars HD wouldn't save the series.

 

[Deleted member]

Or simply, download a patch that incorporates the usage of DLC characters to cover cases where you have to fight opponents who use them, but not download the characters to play as in their own game unless they want them.
(So essentially downloading DLC into the game, but keeping certain characters locked from use.)

 

[ChronoBound]

Or simply, download a patch that incorporates the usage of DLC characters to cover cases where you have to fight opponents who use them, but not download the characters to play as in their own game unless they want them.

That is what I was talking about. This is what happened with PlayStation All-Stars.

 

[Vintage Creep]

The problem is that those people will be forced to download Dr. Mario onto their 3DS/Wii U due to a patch that contains them (think about what would happen if you played with Dr. Mario online against a Doc hater that did not). However, a separate fee will be used to pay to "unlock" them from the patch.

However, I could very much see Sakurai being against the idea of paid DLC altogether, and if Iwata is still president by the time Smash 4 releases, I could see him allowing Sakurai to make DLC for Smash 4 free.

At the very least Dr. Mario and Pichu would require much less effort than other possible DLC characters. Dr. Mario would not need new voice files to be imported into the patch, and Pichu would not need time resources to be balanced since he is supposed to be terrible.

I can see free DLCs only related to minor things, like trophies.
Obviously Nintendo won't charge crazy like Superbot is doing (5$ for character), at least I hope, but it won't be for free.
And Iwata didn't make anything to let people think that he is against paid DLCs. I expect the Luigi expansion for New Mario U to cost around 15 dollars.

 

[Big-Cat]

That happens with just about all games with DLC. It's not that bad.

 

[Shorts]

Oh yeah, and SHORTS, I'll have you know I was eating chocolate chip and cookie dough ice cream while you said what you did. Jerk. I think it's good for my bowels.

I had a Peanut Butter Butter Finger Blizzard on my break, so delicious.

Hmm, I'd wait and see what the final SSB4 character roster is like, then decide on which characters I would like to see as DLC.

I believe DLC characters largely depends on whether or not Sakurai (and Namco) are willing to stay on the project even after it's finished. If so, I figure the onyl characters added will be ones like the forbidden seven.

No, its very real that a reboot will happen that would take it back to 64. Much of the Star Fox fans want it, and even the gaming media is suggesting it.

There's no reason to even think that. Command won't matter, sure, but that's because it isn't cannon. Post Assault is what SFWiiU will be about. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. A reboot will not save the series, a good game will. REGARDLESS of Krystal's inclusion. A reboot =/= series saved. There's never been a reboot in Nintendos history (As far as I know) and no indication from any Nintendo employees that they don't like the newer installments or want to reboot the series.
Besides, even if they rebooted the series, they could always throw Krystal in halfway/at the end of the game, and this evil cycle start all over. Gators gonna gate.

Anyone know any communities I could take my poll to? :s

 

[ChronoBound]

Well I know at least in the case of F-Zero there is at least two continuities (the main series and the games based off of the anime).

FE12 also retconned some things from FE3 (particularly character deaths).

 

[Shorts]

I wouldn't mind getting both Goroh and Black Shadow.

 

[Deleted member]

There's never been a reboot in Nintendos history (As far as I know)

Actually, ironically enough, Star Fox 64 was meant to serve as reboot to the original title.
The original title is essentially non-canon as well.

EDIT: Though that hardly is worth anything, as it was only one title that was rebooted (though there was a Star Fox 2 that was scrapped...).

 

[ChronoBound]

Speaking about Black Shadow, I wonder if he would ever return if there is a new F-Zero. He was killed off in both continuities.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't mind getting both Little Mac and King Hippo as Punch-Out!! reps and both Palutena and Medusa as Kid Icarus newcomers. I really enjoyed both NES games. I have them downloaded on Wii and 3DS.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Speaking about Black Shadow, I wonder if he would ever return if there is a new F-Zero. He was killed off in both continuities.

He'll probably pull a Bowser/Ganondorf/Ridley and return somehow. He's the main villain of the series. Isn't he?

 

[volbound1700]

If they do DLC I don't think it will be 1 char and that is it. I think we will get full expansion packs. I mentioned Melee Expansion pack earlier, don't need to rehash that.

We will likely get stages, trophies, characters, items, etc. A Melee pack makes sense with the cut Melee characters, stages, items, music, and trophies from the game itself. Even a game mode maybe included.

It would be also good to get 3rd parties this way with a Rayman pack for example with Rayman, a stage, some music, AT, music, and Trophies included.

 

[Shorts]

I wouldn't mind getting both Little Mac and King Hippo as Punch-Out!! reps and both Palutena and Medusa as Kid Icarus newcomers. I really enjoyed both NES games. I have them downloaded on Wii and 3DS.

Love Medusa. If I could pick two franchises ro get double additions, it would be Kid Icarus and Donkey Kong.

Still think Medusa could be all Naga/Snakey and AWESOME

 

[FalKoopa]

He'll probably pull a Bowser/Ganondorf/Ridley and return somehow. He's the main villain of the series. Isn't he?

The F-zero series is literally full of villains.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think that the Kid Icarus series's only shot at getting three characters is if Sakurai decides to put in Viridi or Medusa as a luigi-fied clone of Palutena.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The F-zero series is literally full of villains.

Yes, but Black Shadow is the MAIN villain. Correct?

 

[Frostwraith]

Black Shadow is the main villain, yes.

WATASHI WA SHINEN... SHINENZU!

Would be a Ganondorf clone, though.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm a bit biased here but the franchises I hope to get two newcomers are Donkey Kong, Zelda, Pokemon, Kid Icarus, and Punch-Out!!.

 

[Oasis_S]

There is no way Sakurai would ever devote resources to making Pico a completely unique character considering he is even known less than Samurai Goroh. I am a big Pico fan, and I much rather have him in that not in at all. Having 1-3 clone newcomers (like Brawl did) is not going to ruin anything regardless of whatever you think. Most people would rather have their favorite character in as a clone than not in at all. Besides they usually play much differently from their original counterparts.

Also, its not like Pico would even have a chance to get in even if Snake were to be cut. Its just wishful thinking.

As far as I'm concerned, Brawl had no clone newcomers. Anyway, for a guy like you to know the history of clones, and how Brawl moved away from the idea (though apparently you'll disagree there), IT IS FUNNY TO ME how you'd think they'd make a return like that.

What's more funny is that even your biggest dreams are so small???

@Marnly: Etemon... killed himself. Killed by his own arrogance. To a lesser extent: Zudomon's hammer.

 

[ChronoBound]

As far as I'm concerned, Brawl had no clone newcomers. Anyway, for a guy like you to know the history of clones, and how Brawl moved away from the idea (though apparently you'll disagree there), IT IS FUNNY TO ME how you'd think they'd make a return like that.

What's more funny is that even your biggest dreams are so small???
.

There was Toon Link, who only had a few A-moves differentiating himself from regular Link. There is also Lucas and Wolf, though, both of those are heavily luigi-fied (only sharing their specials and Final Smash with Ness and Fox).

 

[Oasis_S]

We're just going to disagree there. What you see, I don't.

Two different worlds separated merely by perception.

Luckily my world is the Strongest in the whole itself and could kick your world's ass any day.

 

[ChronoBound]

We're just going to disagree there. What you see, I don't.

Two different worlds separated merely by perception.

Luckily my world is the Strongest in the whole itself and could kick your world's *** any day.

Put up a poll anywhere asking whether they think Toon Link is a clone. I am pretty sure my world would win out.

 

[Oasis_S]

Sure, but I don't consider him strictly a "newcomer." He exists as he does because of Young Link. If it weren't for Melee messing everything up, maybe things would be different.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Toon Link is just better Link. That's all. And IMO Toon Link /=/ Hero Of Winds. He's just a replica of Young Link who was given a Celda-makeover. Seriously, just give him his own items already and then we can talk.

Also I wouldn't really be content with all the DLC being just clones from last games. We could use an original character TOO, you know?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Love Medusa. If I could pick two franchises ro get double additions, it would be Kid Icarus and Donkey Kong.

Still think Medusa could be all Naga/Snakey and AWESOME

I agree with that idea since it's possible for her to shapeshift into snake related things considering her ugly transformations in her boss fight and her anime. *shudders*

In terms of playable: Medusa > Hades she'd have a much interesting moveset than having guns all over the body and has more history with Palutena.
For KI Codecs: Hades > Medusa since he'd be very entertaining and actually talks with Pit and Palutena alot. .

 

[Starphoenix]

*sigh* Spring Break is almost over...

I've been thinking, maybe I'm not alone, but I have a feeling that come E3 at least a couple of the new characters revealed will be from new series. Usually Sakurai is pretty up front with characters from new series as, with Brawl anyways, they were all starters. The only character I'm confident will be shown off if he is playable is Shulk. Particularly because I think a Shulk and Bionis Leg combo reveals would probably be some of the first content shown off. One, with Shulk being a relatively high profile character; and two, Bionis Leg (or whatever Xenoblade stage for that matter) being an opportune stage to show off the graphical fidelity of the next title on either system. Maybe this is just me.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Toon Link's current move-set: That's the $h!t I don't like!

If Toon Link returns for SSB4 (as much as i hate him, i don't see why he wouldn't) he needs to have more wind shinanigans incorporated into his move set. Or some other elements that are unique to his games. The aerial moves as differentiation isn't cutting it for me.

Also conductor alt costume would be nice

 

[lordvaati]

hey guys, i finally did one of those damn roster maker thingys!

I'll add details and all that cal in a bit.

 

[Shorts]

I'm a bit biased here but the franchises I hope to get two newcomers are Donkey Kong, Zelda, Pokemon, Kid Icarus, and Punch-Out!!.

That's a lot of characters though.. from only five series

Star, I agree with you

Sure, but I don't consider him strictly a "newcomer." He exists as he does because of Young Link. If it weren't for Melee messing everything up, maybe things would be different.

Maybe, but, probably not. Who else from LoZ would have been added in Brawl? Either none, or Toon Linky

 

[Moon Monkey]

Hmm... Roster? Or SSB4 predicted tier list? lol.

Also did anyone mention this:
http://wiiudaily.com/2013/03/team-meat-wants-to-see-super-meat-boy-in-smash-bros/

 

[Starphoenix]

Hmm... Roster? Or SSB4 predicted tier list? lol.

Also did anyone mention this:
http://wiiudaily.com/2013/03/team-meat-wants-to-see-super-meat-boy-in-smash-bros/

If I had managed create my own video game, I'd probably want my character in Super Smash Bros too. There are very few creators who wouldn't -- it's the holy grail of Nintendo series. Trying to blackmail Nintendo isn't the best way to go it though. Plus, there is the whole Nintendo console rule... Even Makoto Yoshizumi, Tales producer, knows that one:

"We need to keep in mind that a character can only appear in a Smash Bros game if he already appeared on a Nintendo console,"