Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[jigglover]

Much like other people before me, I'd like some feedback on a roster I made:

Some notes:

• This is not necessarily a fan roster - moreso an expected one.
• All Brawl characters return, I wanted to cut Toon Link, but I thought I read that Sakurai wanted two Links in Smash.
• I picked Bowser Jr. over Toad because of personal preferences. I could live with Toad, too.
• Tingle has had four games on his own - apart from appearing in nine Zelda games (either as cameo or in person); I'd say he is quite relevant to the Zelda series, so I picked him over one-hit-wonders such as Skull Kid, Vaati and Ghirahim.
• Mewtwo and Roy return due to popular demand.
• Balloon Fighter and Takamaru are in because of their minigames in Nintendoland, Little Mac because of Punch-Out!! Wii.
• No Palutena because she is a goddess. I don't think it would make much sense to make her equally powerful to Pit. If any, give me Fighter or Dark Pit
• Not a fan of Goroh, but I think he was the best choice for the needed second F-Zero rep.
• I don't like Miis either, but meh - they will happen and you know it.
• Pac-man as a thank-you to Namco Bandai.

I give it 96 Yoshis out of 100.
I am very pleased to see the inclusion of Balloon fighter, he is the main character I want in smash 4 and hope for it to be true.

 

[Opossum]

Anyway, I wanted to see what the general opinion of this here.

I'm currently deciding on a roster, but am stuck between two. Basically, which is better: Roster 1 or Roster 2?

[COLLAPSE="Roster 1:"]

[/COLLAPSE]

[COLLAPSE="Roster 2:"]

[/COLLAPSE]


Now, for reasoning and such...

[COLLAPSE="General Across-Roster Reasoning"]

Toad: Integral to the Mario series since Day 1, essentially. Could go for Jr., but this is a personal preference and the one I'm banking on more so.

King K. Rool: Awesome and popular character from an underrepresented series. Pretty much the only character I consider a shoe-in.

Ghirahim: The Zelda team wanted him remembered, a popular choice, possibility of two swords, and despite being currently a one-shot, he set the gears of the Zelda series in motion.

Ridley: A long time requested character from an important Nintendo series.

Palutena: A popular character from a recently revived series. Has fighting potential and the series is named after her in Japan, showing her importance.

Little Mac: A popular character from a recently revived iconic game series. He just screams "Smash" to me.

Starfy: Comes from a five game series (more than most requested new series characters) with one recently being released outside of Japan for the first time. Essentially, he's a dark horse in my eyes. Many going against him, but has quite a bit of merit.

Samurai Goroh: Popular character to the Smash community. He's been in every F-Zero game since the beginning.

Mewtwo's return: Hugely popular to return, very popular Pokemon, almost was in Brawl, etc.

Isaac: A decently supported character here in the West who has three games under his belt and the fighting potential to back it up.

Muddy Mole: My choice for a retro rep, mainly due to Smash finally being on a handheld console now. Barring Game and Watch, who isn't really retro anymore, Muddy would be the only retro handheld character. What he lacks in overwhelming support, he makes up for in potential. Similar to the Ice Climbers, he could get in based on Mechanic over Popularity.

Mii: The "hardware" rep who has been hugely important to Nintendo in recent years.

Mega Man: The only 3rd Party character with sizable demand. Not yet near Sonic, but he's the only one relatively close. Rich history with Nintendo makes him fit right in.

[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Reasoning for Roster 1 Only Additions"]


Zoroark: If they wanted a fifth gen Pokemon, he'd be it. No questions. He, Mewtwo, and Lucario can all coexist.

Krom: Newest Fire Emblem lord with decent popularity.


[/COLLAPSE]


[COLLAPSE="Reasoning for Roster 2"]

Roy over Krom: Generally more support, Smash veteran, demand to be put back. Is also in the newest game as DLC.

No Zoroark: Not every Gen needs representation as a playable character. Look at Gen III. With Zoroark's more "expected than wanted" attitude among many fans, Sakurai may choose to just keep the Brawl roster plus Mewtwo.

[/COLLAPSE]



Roster 1 is my old roster, Roster 2 is the roster that may become my new roster.


Who wins? You decide, I guess. I just want inputs.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Much like other people before me, I'd like some feedback on a roster I made:

Some notes:

• This is not necessarily a fan roster - moreso an expected one.
• All Brawl characters return, I wanted to cut Toon Link, but I thought I read that Sakurai wanted two Links in Smash.
• I picked Bowser Jr. over Toad because of personal preferences. I could live with Toad, too.
• Tingle has had four games on his own - apart from appearing in nine Zelda games (either as cameo or in person); I'd say he is quite relevant to the Zelda series, so I picked him over one-hit-wonders such as Skull Kid, Vaati and Ghirahim.
• Mewtwo and Roy return due to popular demand.
• Balloon Fighter and Takamaru are in because of their minigames in Nintendoland, Little Mac because of Punch-Out!! Wii.
• No Palutena because she is a goddess. I don't think it would make much sense to make her equally powerful to Pit. If any, give me Fighter or Dark Pit
• Not a fan of Goroh, but I think he was the best choice for the needed second F-Zero rep.
• I don't like Miis either, but meh - they will happen and you know it.
• Pac-man as a thank-you to Namco Bandai.

9/10 because no 5th gen characters for Pokemon and no Megaman in 3rd party.

 

[SmashShadow]

@Splat Looks really good but I would take out tingle as his hate base is extreme. Best he stays as an assist. 9.5/10

@Opossum I'd say the 2nd is slightly better only because the popularity of Zoroark and Krom are debatable.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Actually, Tingle is quite popular in both Japan and Europe. That's why Tingle got his own games. So American gamers don't have him while his fans overseas get to have games with him.

They didn't really care about Sonic getting in while we wanted him in so badly. They get Tingle if Sonic stays. There everybody is sorta happy and unhappy at the same time.

 

[---]

Actually, Tingle is quite popular in both Japan and Europe. That's why Tingle got his own games. So American gamers don't have him while his fans overseas get to have games with him.

They didn't really care about Sonic getting in while we wanted him in so badly. They get Tingle if Sonic stays. There everybody is sorta happy and unhappy at the same time.

I wouldn't call it popularity, more like they don't hate him with a passion like us Americans do. First game sold okay (but well under the Zelda standard), the second was a flop. Doesn't go anywhere on fan polls nor has there been any fallback of not having him in any of the Zelda games since Minish Cap.

I'm not sure about Japan's take on Sonic, but it's probably a bit less vocal than the US (who got him in Smash) and Europe (where Sega reigned supreme during the Console Wars in the 90s).

 

[Deleted member]

@Opossum: I'd say go with your second roster. 53 characters seems to be the best bet right now and I'm feeling as the odds of Roy over Krom and no 5th gen outweigh that of the opposite circumstance (5th gen less so, but I'm still slightly leaning towards no).

 

[jigglover]

*Sigh, I want a roster with Zoroark AND Roy, and I would have gone with that, but if I had to pick then I must say roster 1, Zoroark should most certainly be in.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Zoroark should most certainly be in.

says hi.

 

[Deleted member]

Implying they can't co-exist.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

My expectation of seeing both Mewtwo and Zoroark in the roster is really low.

 

[Opossum]

Any particular reason for that, or is it more of a gut feeling?

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

They are always up to date when it's regarding a Pokemon, Lucario debuted in Brawl because it was during 4th gen. And now they are most likely going to have a 5th gen Pokemon rather than Mewtwo. He was considered for Brawl however, even with Lucario in it. So i'm not saying this is a fact, so yeah i suppose it's a gut feeling.

 

[Deleted member]

Problem is, that it's more than "being up to date".

Pichu was in Melee because Sakurai wanted to beef up the Roster with clones (or as he called them, "model-swap" characters) and Pichu was much more popular than Raichu, as well as could be the token joke character by hurting itself.

Lucario was added because of popularity and for being "feasible", not because of being "new".
Sakurai stated that in Melee's time, he didn't find any of the popular 2nd Gens to be feasible to include. (Again, Pichu was added for clone purposes).
Simply put, if Sakurai doesn't find any of the popular 5th Gens (which he might not for Zoroark, I admit) to be feasible, he won't include one.
It may just be he brings Mewtwo back and ends it there for "new" Pokemon characters.

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

I see, i always saw Pichu as the rep for the Second Generation of Pokemon. Despite the fact he was put in for another purpose.

And i pray for that Sakurai decides to consider Mewtwo rather than a 5th Gen Pokemon, i really do. (Forgive me, Zoroark wanters.)

 

[Spire]

Mewtwo is the most important and coolest ****ing Pokémon ever. He's the Pokémon that represents humanity the most. We can understand ourselves the most through Mewtwo. All the others are just creatures. Mewtwo is the baby that man had with the world of Pokémon. Dittos are the abortions.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Too bad Mewtwo is not a highly prioritized character and will be shafted yet again. At this point hoping for such a terrible character is pointless.

 

[Deleted member]

Too bad Mewtwo is not a highly prioritized character and will be shafted yet again. At this point hoping for such a terrible character is pointless.

You only say this because you dislike him.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a shame Habanero didn't develop a brain these past weeks....
considering he wants someone as pathetic as Starfy.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You only say this because you dislike him.

No, I say that because HE'S A TERRIBLE CHARACTER.

A.
TERRIBLE.
CHARACTER.

Seriously, am I the only human being on this planet that actually played Super Smash Bros. Melee? Am I the only human being that unlocked Mewtwo and played as it for 2 minutes or so? Am the only human being that actually dislikes the character for being bad?

 

[Ember Reaper]

I think he's fun, many more agree. When I play melee I play Mewtwo and Roy because they're not in brawl.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Really, people, I thought you would have learned. DON'T. FEED. THE TROLLS.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, you heard shinpichu. Don't feed me.

I will just want more.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yes, you heard shinpichu. Don't feed me.

I will just want more.

I wasn't talking about you. You can still eat....for now.

 

[Deleted member]

I know you weren't talking about me.
It's just you were talking about trolls, and I was using the troll emoticon, so I was playing on that.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Mewtwo can be improved on. Simple.

He has the demand, popularity, and history. His possible inclusion isn't just for nostalgic sake.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, is he really going off on how Mewtwo shouldn't come back because his playstyle wasn't up to par?

As if it was Mewtwo's fault? You know, not the fault of the man that made him that way, Sakurai?
Well then, Ganondorf should be cut. He's far worse in Brawl than Mewtwo ever was.
If Mewtwo is terrible, Ganondorf is horrendous.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Habanero has always hated on Mewtwo. So yes, he's hating on him on how "terrible" he was in SSBM. He also said that the only reason why people want Mewtwo is because of sappy, nolstagic feelings and advocates for a more newer and fresher face.

We all have our characters to hate on, I guess.

 

[JPW]

I actually don't like Mewtwo either. But then again i don't really like any pokemon or pokemon games to be honest. But i do have friends who love it so i can understand all the types. I did have a Lucario phase on Brawl but now that's over.

And if someone like me can be passionate when it comes to Zelda, Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Mario and Sonic then surely i have to understand there are passionate Pokemon Players and i shouldn't blast their opnions..... too much.

I'm starting to feel Zoroark could be an assist. It really depends on where they are in the Pokemon franchise by then remember we are looking 2 to 3 years in the future. They'll want to update characters as much as possible. A very big part of Smash Bros has also been advertising old and new franchises too. Black and White may be too old so they might think it's better off to go with favourites.

I also feel to keep fans happy maybe Veterans should be DLC, just incase some people don't want them back they can choose not to download, and those who do want them back can download them.
That way they can also give the spots to new and exciting characters we haven't seen before. I would rather 4 new characters than 4 old characters who missed out on brawl but came back for 4 because of popular demand or such.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If people are hating Mewtwo for its lackluster tier position in Melee, I suggest that you look at how lousy Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have been in Brawl.

In all seriousness, just because Mewtwo never did well in the Melee environment doesn't mean that it shouldn't come back. After all, the game play elements often play a factor on how well a certain character can fight, and that tends to change every time.

 

[Deleted member]

"Never did well"?

I suppose you haven't seen Taj's Mewtwo?

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

Doesn't matter, his tournament results and metagame were just overall bad. Barely any range and extremely tiny hitboxes.

Spoiler

His Fair, ohman.

I want to see him back in Smash 4 and receive a buff.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I feel that Lucario was meant to inherit Mewtwo's light, floaty playstyle while Mewtwo got a weight boost among other buffs. You know, to actually be a heavyweight like the 269lb lardass he is.

*insert fat Mewtwo picture here*

 

[jigglover]

As you can see, he was meant to look like this due to having an actual model!

I'm a bit disappointed though, I mean talk about holding back! He's even got a trading card!

 

[Pichu4SSB4]

He must of died from diabetes before the game was finished, so they scratched him. ︶︹︺

 

[jigglover]

Nah, he just became friends with a few machokes and they sent him to a gym and got him into shape!

 

[Ridley_Prime]

If people are hating Mewtwo for its lackluster tier position in Melee, I suggest that you look at how lousy Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have been in Brawl.

In all seriousness, just because Mewtwo never did well in the Melee environment doesn't mean that it shouldn't come back. After all, the game play elements often play a factor on how well a certain character can fight, and that tends to change every time.

Which is why I just say to hell with Mewtwo opposers and everything they stand for and promptly ignore them most of the time.

Going on from what you said, if he had been in Brawl I think he prolly would've been a good or decent tier due to the game's overall floaty physics which he had in Melee, especially if he had received buffs in that game like Bowser, Kirby, and such. And of course with Sm4sh there's even more possible room for improvement with him than there was with Brawl since he didn't have things like Psystrike at the time.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wonder where I said anything about tier placement? I'm pretty sure I didn't and I was talking about personal experience. You know, that thing where you play the game for your own reasons as opposed to competing with a bunch of nerdy abominations over pocket change.

Remember, not everything has to do with a tier list you know.

 

[SmashShadow]

Just because you didn't personally like that character doesn't mean that he shouldn't be brought back when he is a smash vet, original character who is important to his series and requested by an overwhelming majority. I personally rarely ever played Yoshi and Jigglypuff cause i didn't like playing as them but that doesn't mean they should be taken out. While you may have your own opinions about Mewtwo none of them are going to warrant his non-inclusion.

 

[Opossum]

Especially since, shocker, the game isn't catered to you for approval.

Mewtwo has earned his place, and was one of the only characters planned for all three Smash games.