Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Scoliosis Jones]

Only if bigger series get more slots first.

I agree with this as well. I would say a Mario rep, Pokemon rep, K. Rool, and Ridley would have to be in first for me...and add Shulk in there. But otherwise there aren't a whole lot of characters i'm rooting for. Pretty much the norm from me.

 

[peeup]

Well here's how it breaks down (or how I break it down. Granted, I know I'm looking for patterns where there aren't any. And I'm fudging some information. So sue me.)

Each new game in the series has added (3rd parties aside) 3 new series: A modern one, a retro one, and a WTF one. Melee: Fire Emblem, Ice Climbers, Game and Watch. Brawl: Pikmin, Kid Icarus, R.O.B.

Now as for 3rd parties, 2 were added in Brawl; one being an iconic character and one being a favor for a friend of Sakurai's. If you're looking for nonexistant patterns, as I am, then that would seem to mean that 2 more 3rd parties will be introduced in SSB4; again, one will be iconic, one will be more of a favor for a friend.

These nonexistant patterns would suggest that in SSB4, as far as new series go, we will see:
1 (one) modern/popular series.
1 (one) retro/oldskül series.
1 (one) WTF/nintendohistory character.
1 (one) popular/iconic character.
1 (one) favor character.

My assumptions that would fulfill this nonexistant pattern would be that we will see the following characters in SSB4:
Shulk (probably is a better choice, can't think of anyone though.)
Balloon Fighter (Takamaru is a close second, but considering they were both in Nintendoland they're on equal ground there, but Balloon Fighter was originally planned for Melee/Brawl but got beat out by Ice Climbers/Pit.)
Duck Hunt Dog (Popularized the zapper, and would be a lively addition on par with G&W and R.O.B.)
Megaman (popular and iconic, highly requested character. This generation's Sonic.)
Pac-Man (kinda a stretch on the nonexistant pattern, but could be seen as a favor to Namco.)

Discuss, flame, masturbate, whatever tickles your fancy.

 

[N3ON]

^You forgot Wario. Pattern broken.

 

[peeup]

^You forgot Wario. Pattern broken.

I consider him part of the Mario franchise. Hence me fudging data to make my pattern work.

 

[N3ON]

Ah, well... Sakurai considers him as part of his own series, so in his mind he added six new series.

Plus Chrom wouldn't be from a new series...

 

[peeup]

Ah **** I meant Shulk. I'll change that.

And Wario's originially from Mario, that's how I sleep at night while still fudging data.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does he have the Mario symbol? No. Then he didn't add a Mario character. He added a Wario character. The Symbol is what determines a series being separate, not some fan interpretation. That's a fact.

Sakurai added no actual Mario Series characters in Brawl as is. Just a Wario character, and a Donkey Kong character. While related, they just don't count in Smash.(other areas, sure, they count, but Smash is excluded) So... your data is simply wrong.

 

[peeup]

Does he have the Mario symbol? No. Then he didn't add a Mario character. He added a Wario character. The Symbol is what determines a series being separate, not some fan interpretation. That's a fact.

Sakurai added no actual Mario Series characters in Brawl as is. Just a Wario character, and a Donkey Kong character. While related, they just don't count in Smash.(other areas, sure, they count, but Smash is excluded) So... your data is simply wrong.

Okay well no need to get mad eye moody, I said about 100000 times that they were made up patterns. And my reasoning: Wario is originally from the Mario series. Diddy is originally from the DK series.

Let me restate this for the 10000000000th time. I have FUDGED the data to suit my NONEXISTANT patterns.

EDIT: If you really wanna change my nonexistant pattern tho, I'll give for the option of having an extra modern character introduced each time. Melee had 1 (Fire Emblem) Brawl had 2 (Pikmin, WarioWare) and SSB4 will have 3 (Xenoblade, Dillon's Rolling Western?, Punch Out!?)

DOUBLE EDIT: Please give me better ideas for 3 new modern/popular franchises because I'm braindead right now.

 

[---]

Not to change the subject so quickly, but another random thought occurred to me. If Fire Emblem has had such a surge in popularity, and had 3 characters planned for Brawl, is it really far off to expect 4 characters?

I'm not necessarily expecting it, but (if it WERE based solely on popularity) right now I would argue that Fire Emblem has surpassed Star Fox in popularity. (as I said right now it seems that way). Keeping this is mind, if Fire Emblem gained 2 slots, I personally wouldn't mind it. But any more than that and i'm not sure I would agree with it. Thoughts?

Four FE reps? But F-Zero looks so lonely...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Just for clarification, there isn't patterns like people think they see. Even if there was, it can easily be broken one way or another. As such basing everything on these supposed "patterns" is not a concrete way to go, especially from a game that is supposedly changing directions.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...That's confusing. So you have no patterns?

I really can't find any true patterns in how he does things. What I've noticed atleast is that while he has planned more than two Pokemon characters per game, only 2 were added each time overall. Although one was fully cut and another didn't make it in Brawl.

 

[peeup]

There are no patterns. I stated explicitly, many many times, that the patterns I produced are NONEXISTANT. Just theorycraft.

 

[3Bismyname]

closest thing i can see to a pattern is the whole 2 retros thing. with one being a wtf character and the other being a simple retro. but that could easily be broken in the next one.

 

[peeup]

closest thing i can see to a pattern is the whole 2 retros thing. with one being a wtf character and the other being a simple retro. but that could easily be broken in the next one.

That's the part I feel most confident about. Mostly because (I think) Ice Climbers, Pit, and Balloon Fighter were all planned for Melee. Obviously, ICs won out. The remaining two fought for Brawl, and Pit won. So now its Balloon Fighter's chance. And honestly the pattern of 1 WTF character that also represents Nintendo history/hardware seems pretty standoutish for it to not be legit.

That said, I don't think a character exists that can fill that spot this time around. Duck Hunt Dog is the closest thing I can think of. My other idea is a Gameboy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The first game technically has it, since I think everything but a Metroid and Mother game were on the n64 at the time. Yoshi's Story, a regular Mario game(and Kart which makes Luigi current), Pokemon was clearly current, F-Zero X, Donkey Kong 64, Star Fox 64, and Ocarina of Time.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also it's not WTF, it's historical significant.

 

[peeup]

Also it's not WTF, it's historical significant.

So you're saying you didn't have a little WTF moment when you say G&W, or R.O.B.?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The first game technically has it, since I think everything but a Metroid and Mother game were on the n64 at the time. Yoshi's Story, a regular Mario game(and Kart which makes Luigi current), Pokemon was clearly current, F-Zero X, Donkey Kong 64, Star Fox 64, and Ocarina of Time.

Each roster seems to mainly be based off the previous gen with some current (and now retros as well)

 

[N3ON]

So you're saying you didn't have a little WTF moment when you say G&W, or R.O.B.?

Sure they were unexpected, but that's probably not why they were added. It's likely either as a historical rep or a hardware rep.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So you're saying you didn't have a little WTF moment when you say G&W, or R.O.B.?

No, because those characters made sense in context to the history of Nintendo, which in turn made sense for a Nintendo crossover.

 

[3Bismyname]

lets not split hairs about this crap people. some people do see them as a wtf type of characters, but they do obviously have significance to Nintendos history ok

 

[peeup]

No, because those characters made sense in context to the history of Nintendo, which in turn made sense for a Nintendo crossover.

Well excuuuuse me princess. Let me try to explain what I mean by WTF character then.

Mr. G&W is not a character. He was invented for Smash, based on a series of games. But prior to Melee, a character named Mr. Game and Watch did not exist.

R.O.B. (correct me if I'm wrong) did not actually appear in the videogames for which he was an accessory.

And yes, they both have significance to Nintendo history. So if you insist on them not being WTF characters, and only being Nintendo history characters, that strengthens the case for Duck Hunt Dog.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

lets not split hairs about this crap people. some people do see them as a wtf type of character, but they do have significance to Nintendos history ok

Yes, Game & Watches were the original Nintendo handheld and ROB was the launch product for the NES in America

We need a retro to fit into that type of category and I feel it should be Sheriff

 

[peeup]

Yes, Game & Watches were the original Nintendo handheld and ROB was the launch product for the NES in America

We need a retro to fit into that type of category and I feel it should be Sheriff

I feel as though Duck Hunt Dog fits the bill better because he represents the popularization of the Flash Gun/Zapper/Whatever.

 

[N3ON]

Sheriff represents Nintendo's history better, DHD represents the hardware better. Sort of depends if the rep is primarily chosen to rep history or hardware...

 

[peeup]

I interpret G&W and ROB as more hardware than history. ROB was an accessory, G&W was the first handheld (maybe?)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Each roster seems to mainly be based off the previous gen with some current (and now retros as well)

Pretty much. The pattern more or less sticks. Few retros, tons of the new series.

Actually, has it been exactly 2 new retros each time...? I can't think of any super old characters in Brawl beyond R.O.B. and Pit. Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch were retro, though.(although Mr.G&W technically was created for Smash. He didn't have that exact name, and wasn't treated as one character, just tons of unnamed characters doing a single move or a few of them at a time) He's a cool composite one, though.

Of course, if we don't count the first Smash, each retro has been from super early series. It's hard to say how many count if we do count it, though. Neither Link would count in Melee or their Brawl versions since they were the latest version of that specific character. Lucas could count since he was on an old GBA game.(albeit, that might fall under the Link scenario as noted a moment ago)

I don't think any counts besides the earlier 4 overall, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Pit.

 

[peeup]

^^Pretty much what I said, which would suggest a classic retro (Balloon Fighter) and a WTF/History/Hardware (take your pick) retro (Duck Hunt Dog).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Jack Sheriff arguably fits the bill better from the prospective of representing the arcade days of Nintendo, and being arguably the first protagonist Nintendo ever created. Regardless of how you look at it, it kills two birds with one stone.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Each roster seems to mainly be based off the previous gen with some current (and now retros as well)

Exactly, so for this game id expect representation from mario galaxy all the way up until the present. I like that aspect of smash bros since its a time capsule of that era in a way, and it contains all the stuff thats come since the last game and will bring about stuff we are currently familiar with.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I interpret G&W and ROB as more hardware than history. ROB was an accessory, G&W was the first handheld (maybe?)

And Sheriff was one of, if not the, first arcade games from Nintendo

 

[peeup]

And Sheriff was one of, if not the, first arcade games

Ah okay didn't know that. Then he's probably got the upper hand. I just like DHD better hehe.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Ah okay didn't know that. Then he's probably got the upper hand. I just like DHD better hehe.

It was 1979, I don't know if Nintendo had anything before that.

They could have but I am not sure.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Now one thing though, will the pistol hurt sheriff's chances? We know realistic weapons arent something sakurai likes, now they could tweak it a bit but im still unsure of how they would handle it without losing his character in the process.

 

[3Bismyname]

it could hurt his chances. but there are ways to work around it. like he could get a cartoonish cork gun or something. but i agree that it does ruin the character a little

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

it could. but there are ways to work around it. like he could get a cartoonish cork gun or something. but i agree that it does ruin the character a little

I was thinking the same thing, make it a little cartoonish

 

[peeup]

Looking into Sheriff, I see an interesting nonexistant pattern. He was made by Nintendo R&D1. R&D1 is also responsible for making Metroid, Ice Climbers, and Kid Icarus. Possibly this means that Sheriff could take the roll of normal retro character in lieu of Balloon Fighter (Reasoning: Samus was (arguably) the normal retro character of SSB64, Ice Climbers was the normal retro of SSBM, and Pit was normal retro of SSBB.) Sheriff would continue this trend of being a retro character made by R&D1.

Obviously that pattern is completely in my head, Sakurai wouldn't think of anything so stupid. So yeah he'd probably be better taking Duck Hunt Dog's place as WTF/Hardware/History character.

 

[3Bismyname]

I was thinking the same thing, make it a little cartoonish

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[FlareHabanero]

I think the guns are more from a prospective of balance instead of controversy. I mean if Kid Icarus: Uprising got away with weapons like the Flintlock Staff and Bullet Blade, I think using a more realistic gun wouldn't exactly be too off. Super Smash Bros. games are typically rated 13+ anyway, so it can slip by fairly easily.

 

[Oasis_S]

I think people sort of... overestimate Sheriff's historical significance. He's only 1 year older than Mario or Game & Watch. There were also other games before him. I think... maybe Sheriff is the first named hero or something?