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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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Diddy Kong

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All I'm saying is that it shouldn't be ruled out Sheik can be replaced by Impa. I just heavily support the idea.

You know, I just hope we won't get another Victini-like fad here. Because seriously, say what you like about me and Impa, but Victini was much worse.
 
D

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It's called people like to pull stuff out of thin air.
This is why I avoid using recentness when discussing characters. The only thing recentness does is to show that a character has appeared recently.

Which is why I'm still skeptical of a 6th gen rep. Only if the Pokémon looks to prove its worth should one be added in.
 

Johnknight1

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Diddy, the Impa debate is dead. It's time to move on from it, like how I moved on from Geno. You can like the idea, but don't keep coming back to it.
You know, I just hope we won't get another Victini-like fad here. Because seriously, say what you like about me and Impa, but Victini was much worse.
Victini has a few moves, but it seem to fit for smash. It doesn't have that "flash" of interest, intensity, and uniqueness that all the other Pokémon who have been playable in smash have (minus Pichu, of course). Even Mewtwo, despite a horrid design, had some flashes of brilliant design, and a ridiculous amount of undeniable untapped potential (as a smash bros playable character).

Still, just because the Victini-era and possibly the Genesect-era are over doesn't mean we won't get any more bad Pokémon ideas, as the pre-Brawl, post-Deoxys fad fan obsesssion over Blazekin showed us. Seriously, who wants to play a character that fights similarly to the characters we already have=??? :laugh: That made the Deoxys fad (which sadly I was a part of) seem original! :chuckle:
 

Diddy Kong

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Isawwhatyoudidthere :glare:

Deoxys was still a pretty good idea for a Gen 3 rep. Problem is, there's too much potential in Pokemon characters.

But I say, **** it all. Let's have Mewtwo and Blastoise.
 

Diddy Kong

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I WILL HEAR NO SUCH BLASPHEMY!

BLASTOISE! USE HYDRO PUMP!



I usually pick Charmander though

The Impa idea is far from dead though. If you don't wanna hear about it, don't get involved in the discussion. It's simple as that.
 

Johnknight1

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This is why I avoid using recentness when discussing characters. The only thing recentness does is to show that a character has appeared recently.

Which is why I'm still skeptical of a 6th gen rep. Only if the Pokémon looks to prove its worth should one be added in.
Listen, in regard to Gen VI, I'm not skeptical of anything. I am 100% positive at least 1 or 2 will be "considered." Now note that I think hundreds of characters will be considered, but only about 10-20 new characters will be playable. Gradually, the number of characters considered gets shortened through elimination rounds (brainstorming sessions, then some basic moveset designs, and maybe some actual testing), and there may be a few characters "unconsidered" that are reconsidered, but largely, I think they are brought down to the final newcomer list.

Now as it stands, I think Sakurai and co were informed and shown a few of these new Pokémon by Game Freak and the Pokémon Company months ago, and Sakurai and co have definitely considered a few of them. That doesn't mean they'll get in, but it does mean they stand a fair chance. I doubt we've seen any of the true potential playable character nominees from Gen VI yet, so we need to hold it back.

Once the dust settles and we see about half of the new Gen VI Pokémon, then we can start making accurate guesses. That is, unless we get another Lucario situation where one Pokémon is just so much more massively popular (as a potential Smash Bros. playable characters) than the rest. But even then, there's still some Gen V competition. Victini may still have a microscopic chance; maybe Genesect has a chance, too. But ultimately, the biggest draw and safest bet is that Zoroark is still in the playable roster discussion.
 

FlareHabanero

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Nope, cannot take it back. Without Rapid Spin, Blastoise is easily the worse of it's kin and outclassed by other water types like Milotic and Suicune.
 

Johnknight1

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Wait... when was this ever a serious possibility? I've honestly never heard anyone seriously say this, not even back in the Brawl days.
No, it's just a stupid suggestion you see from time to time. Another stupid one from the pre-Brawl days, and I quote! "Replace Luigi with the more original Waluigi!" :rotfl:
Blastoise is the worst among water type starters.
This is my response.
Deoxys was still a pretty good idea for a Gen 3 rep. Problem is, there's too much potential in Pokemon characters.
1. The only thing characters represent is themselves. No one wants to play as a Pokéball or as DK's tie.
2. Deoxys had some potential (not a lot), but Deoxys is too similar to Mewtwo, as well as Lucario. Deoxys' potential is easily overshadowed by other Pokémon/potential playable characters, and Deoxys doesn't seem like that unique of a original playable character idea. This allows us to see how relatively inferior the idea of a playable Deoxys is to other playable character ideas.
3. Agreed. We got so good of options at Pokémon that Sakurai can literally pick and choose. There are also many other better, more unique, and more deserving Nintendo characters not playable in Smash. I could list at least 30 off the top of my head if I so wanted to.
But I say, **** it all. Let's have Mewtwo and Blastoise.
As the biggest Blastoise fan ever, I say let's not add Blastoise. He's an awesome Pokéball Pokémon. But for Mewtwo, he's like Arnold Schwarzenegger; he always comes back. ;)
 

Diddy Kong

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Just look at that bad *** shooting Hydro Pump at them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJZx4_AoPt8 :smirk:

Don't mess with the Blastoise.

We all know we wanna have that awesome Charizard vs Blastoise rematch in Smash style!

I thought Deoxys could be sort of unique with his tentacle like arms and different forms. But yeah, he's not needed. The only legendary worthy is Mewtwo anyways.

Blastoise is still semi-legendary of coarse. ;)
 

Johnknight1

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If Blastoise evolves in Gen VI into something EVEN MORE EPIC (although I don't know if that is possible, given how epic Blastoise is), that evolution of Blastoise better be playable (with the PT=???) in Smash WiiU and/or 3DS or else I'ma gonna throw a brick wall at Sakurai!!!
 

Ridley_Prime

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Blastoise is the worst among water type starters.
I know it's considered fashionable to hate on first gens because of how overrated they and the gen itself often are, but even I think that's going too far.
 
D

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We all know we wanna have that awesome Charizard vs Blastoise rematch in Smash style!
Blastoise vs. Charizard

Blastoise would decimate Charizard.

Speaking of which why not just make all of Red's Pokemon fully evolved?
 

Johnknight1

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Speaking of which why not just make all of Red's Pokemon fully evolved?
Diversity. If they all were the final evolutions, they all would be about the same height and the same weight, and it would look kind of bland and uninspired. The multiple evolutionary stages also shows off how diverse Pokémon are at different form maturity, which is pretty aesthetically pleasing, as well as an effective way of showing off solid character design.

A bit off topic, but btw, Charizard is supposed to be like 5'2 or 5'6 or something like that. So, in other words, Charizard should be about as tall as Samus. Also, Ivysaur is about right, and Squirtle should actually be smaller if we're going by actuality. I know most people wouldn't like that, but I would love to see Charizard be smaller (and thus quicker and have faster moves) and see Squirtle be smaller (and even quicker, have better quick moves, and have an even better recovery).

Then again, I am addicted to things that move fast! XD
 

Diddy Kong

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Blastoise vs. Charizard

Blastoise would decimate Charizard.

Speaking of which why not just make all of Red's Pokemon fully evolved?
Red vs Blue all the way again!

Blastoise could decimate Charizard, but then again, Charizard could decimate Blastoise as well! Oh the exitement. :awesome:

They could make all of Red's Pokemon evolved, but I don't think that was the purpose of him in Brawl. I think they wanted to make a light, medium and heavy character, as well as trying to represent all evolution stages.

Besides, ol' uncle Blastoise is awesome and all, but Squirtle is still more well known and popular. Still, he's no Blastoise.
 

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I'm almost certain that the majority of Pokeball Pokemon will be from 5th gen, 6th gen, and possibly 2nd gen (can't forget HeartGold/SoulSilver). 1st gen, 3rd gen, and 4th gen Pokemon might be the minority.

:phone:
 

Frostwraith

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how about 1/6 of the Poké Ball Pokémon from each gen? maybe 60 different Pokémon with 10 from each gen?
 

Diddy Kong

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Far more balanced idea, and I like it. And if Blastoise doesn't make it as playable, he should be brought back as a Pokeball Pokemon. Also, I want Chansey back to so I can kick her off stage again (first knew this was possible in the Melee event where you unlock Ganondorf. ******* KILLED MY DEAR CYNDAQUIL!!).
 

Dark Phazon

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Make Zapdos playable.

Up B - Fly
B - Light Screen
Down B - Charge.
Left/Right B - Drill Peck

Make it HAPPEN SAKURAI!

There now everyone is happy...(-_-)

:phone:
 

Johnknight1

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Just bring back all the previous Pokéball Pokémon from the 3 previous Smash Bros games, maybe fix a few animations, give them newer models (possibly from a Pokémon game released on the WiiU/3DS released between the release date of these 2 forthcoming smash bros games and now; make them HD 1080p awesome status on the WiiU), and then just add 15-20 or so new Pokéball Pokémon from both Gen V and Gen V, and everyone is happy.

Quite frankly, I'm tired of the Pokéball Pokémon cuts. Also, while I'm at it, make the 3 Spear Pillar stage hazard Pokémon into Pokéball Pokémon, and let them use the same moves. Lastly, maybe replace the Pokéball Pokémon Charizard animation with another Pokémon (Salamence=???).
 

Arcadenik

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how about 1/6 of the Poké Ball Pokémon from each gen? maybe 60 different Pokémon with 10 from each gen?
Uh, why? People are always spouting about how it is unnecessary to have one playable Pokemon per generation in Smash because people only cares about the 1st gen Pokemon and that Smash isn't a Congress... And yet we need 10 Pokemon per generation popping out of Pokeballs for the sake of balance and equality?

:phone:
 

Frostwraith

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Just bring back all the previous Pokéball Pokémon from the 3 previous Smash Bros games, maybe fix a few animations, give them newer models (possibly from a Pokémon game released on the WiiU/3DS released between the release date of these 2 forthcoming smash bros games and now; make them HD 1080p awesome status on the WiiU), and then just add 15-20 or so new Pokéball Pokémon from both Gen V and Gen V, and everyone is happy.

Quite frankly, I'm tired of the Pokéball Pokémon cuts. Also, while I'm at it, make the 3 Spear Pillar stage hazard Pokémon into Pokéball Pokémon, and let them use the same moves. Lastly, maybe replace the Pokéball Pokémon Charizard animation with another Pokémon (Salamence=???).
That's an even better idea. I agree with all your points. Maybe add a few Gen I, II, III and IV Pokémon too? I'd like to have one member of the Gastly line to appear in SSB4...
 

Johnknight1

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Uh, why? People are always spouting about how it is unnecessary to have one playable Pokemon per generation in Smash because people only cares about the 1st gen Pokemon and that Smash isn't a Congress... And yet we need 10 Pokemon per generation popping out of Pokeballs for the sake of balance and equality?
Most people aren't asking for equality amongst Generations of Pokémon in Smash, but for a new and different Pokémon with different take on what Pokémon should look like (which is different from generation to generation, save for some saved Pokémon carried over to another generation).

The reason people wanted Lucario and Charizard over say Deoxys and Dragonite is become the former two are more unique, original, popular, and they fit better within the grand scheme of all things smash brothers (in terms of playable character [choices]).
 

Dark Phazon

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I agree, in fact adding gimmicks to characters is a great way to make them all play very uniquely even if they have some similar moves here and there. BlazBlue does a great job at demonstrating this with the unique Drives each character has, no two characters are anything alike:

Ragna steals health
Jin freezes opponents
Noel changes and links her combos
Tsubaki charges her specials
Hazama uses that chain thing to pull himself/opponents closer
Bullet has auto-grapple combos
Azrael finds and exploits weakpoints
Mu-12 deploys auto-fire guns at a distance
etc...


Anyway, on a slightly different topic, I know we've talked about this before, and I may be a bit slowpoke here, but I've heard this rumor that I just can't seem to ignore.

You want an unexpected left field character that would be as surprising for most to see as Snake? There is only ONE character that can do that at this point:

[COLLAPSE="Yep..."]
[/COLLAPSE]

Anyway, I keep hearing rumors that Nintendo was negotiating with Microsoft to try and buy Rare just for the sake of earning rights to the Banjo IP. Well, I did some digging up and this is what I came up with:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...-japanese-video-game-market-one-ip-at-a-time/
http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/c...negotiate-its-way-into-ownership-of-banjo-and



Now, as much as I want this to be true, it seems somewhat unlikely, however, if you think about a few things for a little, there is chance this MIGHT be true after all.

First and foremost, there's the fact that Retro is supposedly working on a game that "everyone wants them to work on." Now I find it unlikely that it's Banjo Kazooie, but nowdays, people do consider Retro Studios the spiritual successor to Rare, and with how Nintendo treats them, there certainly is a resemblace. In fact many old Rare devs are working at Retro now supposedly. There is also this little tidbit about the old Banjo team wanting to make a spiritual successor for the series: http://gamerant.com/spiritual-successor-banjo-kazooie/. So, what if? What if Retro was working on a 3D platformer similar to Banjo, and Nintendo just decided to try and buy rights to the game in hopes of having a stronger name to stand on?

There's more though, a couple pages back, we talked about that supposed Diddy Kong Racing game supposed to be in development for the WiiU. We talked about how Monster Games would have to find ways to replace beloved Rare characters like Banjo and Conker and Tiptup with other IPs. But, if Retro was working on a title like what I suggested, then Nintendo would now have TWO reasons to try and make those Rare IPs 1st party Nintendo IPs.

Now, with Rare being M$'s Kinnect team, it's very unlikely they would sell the studio to Nintendo and tbh, Nintendo's better of without them, as they're Rare only in name nowdays. However, considering how poorly Rare did with the past generations, and how M$ doesn't seem to have any interest in either working with the Rare IPs, nor letting Rare make any more games. It is possible they might sell the rights to "dead" IPs for some quick cash. Think about it, as far as M$ cares, Banjo Kazooie was a failed project, and even Rare voiced their opinion on how "modern gamers only wanna shoot stuff." So what if negotiations DID indeed happen and Nintendo earned the rights to the Rare IPs and may even bought a couple employees? As mentioned in the forbes article, Nintendo DID buy Monolith Soft, and they've been very focused on getting their hands on exclusive IPs for their WiiU, so it's not too much of a stretch really.

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws because I REALLY want this to be true, but picture this:

@E3 2013
-Nintendo showcases a new trailer and demos for Pokemon "Coldplay."
-People are excited, but it's expected.
-Then a trailer for the new DKR, the trailer has many of the expected faces, and it's similar to how we remember it, suddenly, we catch a glimpse of a notorious Bear with a pesky Bird nagging him about his poor piloting skills, then we see Conker and even Tiptup.
-Fans cheer at this unexpected reveal and figure M$ allowed them in, or something.
-Then, Reggie comes on stage and talks about how "WiiU won't only let you race with familiar faces, but also fight with them."
-And fans cheer at the announcement of the new Smash 4 trailer.
-The trailer comes up, and we see the expected stuff, Mario, Link, Pika, Samus, some new faces, maybe Saki, and Ridley, and the Gen 6 Pokemon. Finally, when things begin to slow down in the trailer we see a glimpse of our new Namco 3rd party be it Lloyd or Pacman.
-People cheer as the screen goes dark.... but WAIT!
-Suddenly we hear the sound of wind... Followed by the squawking of some bird as words appear on screen beside the face of a familiar Breegull, telling her partner how he got them lost again. Then, "Gu-gugu-gu-gu-gugu" as the bear replies "it's better to be late than never." All of this as the strings of a Banjo begin to intensify in a familiar Jingle as the screen begins to pan to the ground and the music speeds up, then we see a bear's foot leave a Blue Footprint on the ground followed by the classic "Gu-huh!"
-Only on WiiU Summer 2014
-Throughout all of this fans are dead silent as they cannot BELIEVE what they've just seen. "How?" "What?" "There's no way!!" " A rival 1st Party IP in Smash Bros?" And then, people begin to cheer, it echoes so loud that cheer can be heard across the planet.
-"But wait, there's more!" Reggie says as he comes on stage.
-"The promise of an old enemy, 'Just you wait until Banjo-Threeie.' That's right our very own Retro studios and the old banjo Team have come together to bring you the game you've always wanted. Banjo-Threeie, exclusive to WiiU."
-And the titles to the game appears behind him with the WiiU logo.


And then, at that moment, thousands of fans die due to increased blood pressure caused by the excitement of that day. E3 2013, the day the internet imploded.

Marry me now and lets have kids.

:phone:
 

Diddy Kong

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HE'S MINE! BACK OFF! I have a Blastoise at my command, and it's willing to fire it's Hydro Pump at ya!
 

Diddy Kong

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Blastoise, our deep love or Rare, DKC and ManlySpirit. Mewtwo, and other occasional bull****. What else did you expect? :laugh:

Damn, I feel like getting drunk with you guys or something.
 

Diddy Kong

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Yes, John's return is also gloriously felt in this thread. :reverse:

Missed ya though bro.

But won't back up on the Impa. :denzel:
 

Ridley_Prime

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For some reason it never felt to me like he was really gone at any point.
 

lobotheduck21

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Yes, John's return is also gloriously felt in this thread. :reverse:

Missed ya though bro.

But won't back up on the Impa. :denzel:
And we won't back down on shiek

ninja impa appeared in Oot, same game and shiek, and has since appeared in only one in the flesh appearence in which, and shiek was supposed to be in tp

you're over stating impa's importance
 

Diddy Kong

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No I'm not, as Impa is similar to Link, Zelda and Ganon in status, she's also a specific soul that incarnates when needed. She was also part of the original Triforce 'love triangle', but OoT changed this by giving Ganondorf the Triforce of Power.

Just imagine, Impa. With the Triforce of Power.

**** just got serious.
 

lobotheduck21

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No I'm not, as Impa is similar to Link, Zelda and Ganon in status, she's also a specific soul that incarnates when needed. She was also part of the original Triforce 'love triangle', but OoT changed this by giving Ganondorf the Triforce of Power.

Just imagine, Impa. With the Triforce of Power.

**** just got serious.
they changed it before ninja impa's appearance

nimpa (as i have now dubbed her) has only appeared in one more game then shiek, and there first appearance shiek had a bigger role

nimpa is too impa as shiek is to zelda,
 

Starphoenix

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So whats it based on if the char gets chosen? Pure fan base and originality/uniqueness?

:phone:
A myriad of things, most of which have to do with Sakurai's own feelings on how a character will be perceived. Gameplay plays a role, series play a role, popularity plays a role, coherence and diversity play a role, and Sakurai's own imagination play a role. Of course these are all too ambiguous for us to accurately determine which characters fall into this category or not, but it is something to work off. Unfortunately, most people over complicate the process without realizing it really comes down to Sakurai's own whim, which I have no problem accepting since I have yet to truly be disappointed by any of his roster selections (bar Mewtwo's absence).
 
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