Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[smashkng]

Really? Boost Kick is very reliable when hit at the right place and angled right. It's pretty much impossible to get out if the ZSS angles it right, which I think a lot of ZSS aren't good at it yet but I am. And even when they get out it's very difficult, if not impossible, to really punish on hit. Trust me when I do them they only get out when a hit confirm was in a very awkward, unpredicted spot. Otherwise it connects reliably.

 

[David Viran]

ftilt is not safe on shields because ill just grab you or dtilt you and u air doesn't count because i cant shield if im in mid air, and if you do it on the ground, i will punish your landing with dash atk or grab.

So what your grab has more range than zss's ftilt? Ftilt doesn't have that much end lag. Dtilt I said somewhat because I can never tell what MU's it works in. I haven't tried it on rosa. Uair spaced out of sheild grab range has way to little landing lag to be punished by dash attack/grab.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

So what your grab has more range than zss's ftilt? Ftilt doesn't have that much end lag. Dtilt I said somewhat because I can never tell what MU's it works in. I haven't tried it on rosa. Uair spaced out of sheild grab range has way to little landing lag to be punished by dash attack/grab.

You didn't read my point correctly, I said I will punish your landing with a grab, dash atk after when you did your short hop uair

Really? Boost Kick is very reliable when hit at the right place and angled right. It's pretty much impossible to get out if the ZSS angles it right, which I think a lot of ZSS aren't good at it yet but I am. And even when they get out it's very difficult, if not impossible, to really punish on hit. Trust me when I do them they only get out when a hit confirm was in a very awkward, unpredicted spot. Otherwise it connects reliably.

yeah, if you aim it perfectly, which most skilled players wont let you do and I heard many competitive player like ZeRo even say its not a reliable kill move because how diffcult it is to use without them di out of it

Thats like saying Captain falcon fair is reliable ko move, which its not because its hard to sweetspot it.

 

[David Viran]

You didn't read my point correctly, I said I will punish your landing with a grab, dash atk after when you did your short hop uair

What do you mean punish with a sheild grab? Also up b does not need to really be that precise on grounded opponents in the air is when you need to be precise. You can pretty much react to DI at low to mid rage but at higher rage it gets much harder but not completely impossible. You can't even compare falcons fair one can be used on the ground and in the air while coming out on frame 4.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

What do you mean punish with a sheild grab? Also up b does not need to really be that precise on grounded opponents in the air is when you need to be precise. You can pretty much react to DI at low to mid rage but at higher rage it gets much harder but not completely impossible. You can't even compare falcons fair one can be used on the ground and in the air while coming out on frame 4.

Cmon, man, don't you play zss, you should know about juggle traps. every character is vulnerable to dash atks or grabs when they are trying to land on the ground. since you did a short hop uair on my shield, you have to land, which I can punish with juggle traps

 

[David Viran]

Cmon, man, don't you play zss, you should know about juggle traps. every character is vulnerable to dash atks or grabs when they are trying to land on the ground. since you did a short hop uair on my shield, you have to land, which I can punish with juggle traps

Oh, no when I say space with uair I mean a falling uair. I would not be on the air after uair.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Zero Suit Samus's discussion period is now over. As such, I've added up all the ratio inputs for the Rosalina vs. Zero Suit Samus match-up, to get an overall average.

[47:53]

Zero Suit Samus apparently has a small advantage against Rosalina.

Now, it's time for Rosalina to analyze her match-up against Ness.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Oh, no when I say space with uair I mean a falling uair. I would not be on the air after uair.

ok, that makes more sense then.

65:35 in Rosy favor, she out classes him in the air with aerials with the same speed, but better range, GP gimps ness recovery, and nair gets over pk fire. There literally not much Ness could do besides out play the other player.

 

[Luco]

I'll post something on this later. It's truly a very interesting MU :D

 

[Parcheesy]

ok, that makes more sense then.

65:35 in Rosy favor, she out classes him in the air with aerials with the same speed, but better range, GP gimps ness recovery, and nair gets over pk fire. There literally not much Ness could do besides out play the other player.

You're basically spot on, except that Ness' fair is 100% faster than ours, or at least he can stay close enough in strings that trying to match his fair with ours will be too slow to be effective. Once the string gets started, I'd say the advantage in the air is entirely on Ness' side in a manner very similar to the Yoshi MU. That said, his options on the ground are less than spectacular, with the only major threat being the absurd range on his dash attack, and his very strong grab options.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but grounded PK fire seems outright bad against Rosalina. She can poke the projectile safely with Luma, has a unique dash animation that seems designed to avoid the projectile even while charging forward, and is light enough to escape the fire earlier than most. The aerial version is better, but also sets up Ness to be anti-aired, which is usually what Rosalina is looking to do.

Let any Ness mains correct me if I'm wrong, but out of the entire cast, Rosalina gimps Ness the most effortlessly. It's simply a matter of robbing of his jump, then pressing down +b in his generally area. Even onstage, Ness is fairly easy to trap at the ledge because of having several mediocre options ( I know for a fact his getup attack is garbage, and I faintly recall his roll being below average as well ).

Overall, I'm going to go with 70-30 for Rosalina. Especially in a 2 stock meta, a single gimp almost always wins you the game, and it's simply too easy to do to Ness for him to have a good shot at winning this.

 

[9Tales]

I would rank this pretty close except for Gravity Pull. Even without Gravity Pull I think this would be a little bit in Rosalina's favor because Ness sucks at killing Luma.
Basically just watch out for those upairs and don't get grabbed, track Ness's offstage movement and suck in that PK Thunder.
70:30

 

[mario123007]

ok, that makes more sense then.

65:35 in Rosy favor, she out classes him in the air with aerials with the same speed, but better range, GP gimps ness recovery, and nair gets over pk fire. There literally not much Ness could do besides out play the other player.

I'll go with you too, I think Ness is pretty powerful this time except his hard recovery, Ness has a good air game and many projectiles, however, Rosalina's air game has wider range, and can ko Ness easily at edge.
So me too, 65:35

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

By the way, I wanted to ask if I could take some of these analysis that you guys have posted, and make videos about Rosalina's matchups

 

[Parcheesy]

By the way, I wanted to ask if I could take some of these analysis that you guys have posted, and make videos about Rosalina's matchups

Fine with me. If you ever need a P2 to test things, let me know. Most of the time I'm idling around waiting for something to do anyway.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ Parcheesy I'd posit that Villager gimps Ness a bit better since he doesn't have to worry about Pocket smacking Ness with the tail of PK Thunder. But honestly it's kind of splitting hairs. Also can Rosalina seriously avoid PK Fire just by dashing over it? That's hilarious if true.

Fair and grabs are the only tools Ness has that I really fear. Fair is fast, disjointed, and transcendent, which means Rosalina has a hard time trying to challenge it. Grab is self explanatory. PK Fire isn't a large threat to Rosalina herself, but it traps Luma for free since it can't DI out. Is it safe to absorb it on reaction or can Ness punish the absorb?

Offstage of course Ness is basically a free gimp as long as he is missing his double jump and we're in his general vicinity. We can also nullify his PK Thunder juggles, although I've met a few cheeky Ness players online who let me suck up a few then send one around for a PKT2 hit.

We cannot absorb PK Flash. It's trajectory is predictable enough that we can work around it regardless, but it's something worth knowing.

PSI Magnet is worthless against default Star Bits (seriously why are they physical disjoint, it makes no sense) but works just fine against Shooting and Floaty Star Bit.

I don't think Ness has anything particularly fancy up his sleeve for his onstage game so I'll call it 70:30. I'm open to being shown wrong on that front though.

 

[Parcheesy]

Not sure if she can dash over the length of the projectile, but what I was suggesting that being parallel with it's path means Rosalina needs to be a lot closer to actually be hit by it. In practice, it's usually the Luma being bonked by the fire, so running directly towards PK fire still isn't recommended. It's just another tidbit in the matchup that slants it towards Rosalina.

If anyone wants to test any specifics of the matchups, I'll have time tomorrow night. I'm kind of curious how much of my 8 year old self playing Melee Ness will carry over.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

When can we talk about Kirby? And btw are these Match ups on FG? or at actual tournaments?

 

[Parcheesy]

When can we talk about Kirby? And btw are these Match ups on FG? or at actual tournaments?

Not sure if the Kirby discussion happened already or will happen, but if you're desperate for information, I play quite a bit with Reserved, and think I know quite a bit about how the MU works. If you'd like, I'm open to talk at length about it later tonight, or you can poke @ Aunt Jemima for a few matches, or advice.

As long as people are judging the matchups based on equal skill, and knowledge of every applicable tech, I think For Glory is good enough for what we're doing. Avoiding bias is the most important thing.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Not sure if the Kirby discussion happened already or will happen, but if you're desperate for information, I play quite a bit with Reserved, and think I know quite a bit about how the MU works. If you'd like, I'm open to talk at length about it later tonight, or you can poke @ Aunt Jemima for a few matches, or advice.

As long as people are judging the matchups based on equal skill, and knowledge of every applicable tech, I think For Glory is good enough for what we're doing. Avoiding bias is the most important thing.

Wait so if you were trying to discuss a matchup
You would first of all agree that seeing/doing a battle would be the best way to see the matchup?
Would you also say FG is a decent option to actually use if you live in Wisconsin where I'm positive that there are no tournaments in.
Btw my NNID: smashdemon please add me I would like to get some battles in and hopefully the stupid error code doesn't mess it up.
If you know Reserveds NNID too may I have it as well? Btw I'm at school lol so we can play anytime after 3:30 pm
I play a mean Kirby and Peach and trust me I'm not a noob with them unlike almost every other person I fought online with.

Please and Ty

 

[Aunt Jemima]

*poke*

I'd love to hear your side of the Rosalina vs Kirby MU. I still need to write up about that, as our discussion on the Kirby boards about the MU is dumb.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Kirby's discussion period has not happened here yet. I have yet to announce when we'll be analyzing Kirby, but I will say that it will be after all the Fire Emblem fighters have been analyzed.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Kirby's discussion period has not happened here yet. I have yet to announce when we'll be analyzing Kirby, but I will say that it will be after all the Fire Emblem fighters have been analyzed.

Ok...... So that's not gonna be anytime soon :/ I guess what I will do is if I find any rosa players online,
I'll mostly record the match to show how it is(should I do it even if the player is bad? And I mean REAL bad?)

 

[Zonderion]

I

Ok...... So that's not gonna be anytime soon :/ I guess what I will do is if I find any rosa players online,
I'll mostly record the match to show how it is(should I do it even if the player is bad? And I mean REAL bad?)

I Would say no. The idea is that if both players are equal in skill, which character has the advantage. Maybe only ones with good skill?

 

[9Tales]

Ok...... So that's not gonna be anytime soon :/ I guess what I will do is if I find any rosa players online,
I'll mostly record the match to show how it is(should I do it even if the player is bad? And I mean REAL bad?)

I

I Would say no. The idea is that if both players are equal in skill, which character has the advantage. Maybe only ones with good skill?

To take that a step further the MUs are not just based on even skill but on the hypothetical concept of the highest possible level of even skill (as we know it.) For example a beginner or very casual player probably lacks the ability to follow up on combos, perform basic edge guards, or even punish dash attacks out of shield. I could argue that at low levels of even skill Shiek has a bad MU with Little Mac. After all the low level Shiek player probably can't capitalize on most of Little Macs flaws and beginner tactics like spamming smash attacks tend to yield better results for the Mac player. Meanwhile the reverse is true at high levels of skill. And we're interested in (and amining for) high level play

 

[Zonderion]

To take that a step further the MUs are not just based on even skill but on the hypothetical concept of the highest possible level of even skill (as we know it.) For example a beginner or very casual player probably lacks the ability to follow up on combos, perform basic edge guards, or even punish dash attacks out of shield. I could argue that at low levels of even skill Shiek has a bad MU with Little Mac. After all the low level Shiek player probably can't capitalize on most of Little Macs flaws and beginner tactics like spamming smash attacks tend to yield better results for the Mac player. Meanwhile the reverse is true at high levels of skill. And we're interested in (and amining for) high level play

This is it exactly. We have to take our knowledge of the characters and apply a theoretical sense of highest skill possible to each character in the MU. This is obviously dependent on our knowledge as a whole and will change overtime as we discover new tricks and techniques. Also, this is why this will not be the only time we discuss all of the match ups.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ness's discussion period is now over, and it seems that there just wasn't much to discuss about the Rosalina vs. Ness match-up. Regardless, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an average.

[68:32]

The match-up favors Rosalina pretty well there.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Pit.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

No comment on the ratio since I have no idea what a good Pit looks like but it's hilarious when he goes for Upperdash Arm and hits Luma instead of us.

 

[Ffamran]

No comment on the ratio since I have no idea what a good Pit looks like but it's hilarious when he goes for Upperdash Arm and hits Luma instead of us.

Uh... Nairo? There's him and Pink Fresh also uses Pit from time to time.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Uh... Nairo? There's him and Pink Fresh also uses Pit from time to time.

But my understanding of Pit the character is so nonexistent I still can't tell what I'm watching. Like, I can watch a Diddy or Sheik and understand what they're doing, even if I don't use them myself, but I watch Pit and I'm just like "...huh, that happened" half the time.

EDIT: It's basically me being horribly underexposed to good Pit play, I don't think he's exactly a popular character.

 

[Ffamran]

But my understanding of Pit the character is so nonexistent I still can't tell what I'm watching. Like, I can watch a Diddy or Sheik and understand what they're doing, even if I don't use them myself, but I watch Pit and I'm just like "...huh, that happened" half the time.

Well, that's the price everyone pays when there's a select group in a spotlight. Hell, people are still confused on what Diddy's doing and can do. It's just with characters like Diddy, Fox, Sheik, ZSS, Luigi, and sometimes Rosalina - I only know Dabuz's Rosalina -, people have some basic knowledge of what they can do.

Look at aMSa's Greninja, Abadango's Pac-Man, Nairo's Zelda, Ally's Mario, etc., people just don't know them because there aren't a lot of those characters being played which leads to misconceptions, confusion, and early write offs. You do not know how frustrated I get when I listen to commentators say Falco can't do anything. Sure, they have to say things on the fly, but some commentators just throw out things and it leads to a lot of issues for people watching. The idea that Falco can't edgeguard, can't kill, can't combo, Dair is useless, etc. frustrates me and it extends to others like Ganondorf, Ike, Link, Toon Link, etc. Their reputations in previous games and early impressions kills them: "Marth's nerfed", "Meta Knight's nerfed", "Peach is weaker in SSB4", etc. Ike for one gets consistently placed low tier despite his ability to combo with strong attacks as heavyweight, his Fair and Bair auto-canceling, and people generally agreeing Ike's a monster with customs. Oh well, I digress.

Disclaimer: I don't know Pit as well as Pit mains, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
The run down for Pit is this: Nair, Fair, and Uair combo. If anything, Nair and Fair are used like Fox's Fair out of D-throw or Palutena's Nair and Uair comboing or Fair to push people away. Dair is mostly for spiking and along with Fair's range, Bair's tippered hit, and Pit's multi-jumps, Pit's edgeguard game is good to say the least. And Pit can Gentleman his Jab.

Dtilt is good from what I hear, Ftilt is great for spacing and it kills well since it has a tipper hit which Dark Pit doesn't for some stupid reason, and Utilt can combo, but I don't know about its range. Up Smash is wonky since Pit can miss at pointblank with it. I don't think he'll miss with Rosalina since she's taller, but on say, Mario, he might whiff the entire move, Down Smash I don't really know about while Side Smash has good range, kills well, and it's one of the fastest Smashes along with Samus, Dark Pit, Marth, and Lucina's.

Palutena's Bow might not have major use in this MU, but he can arc the arrows, so he could go over Luma or aim directly for Luma. As an edgeguard tool, it's probably more annoying than anything. Upperdash Arm is what makes Pit "worse" in this MU than Dark Pit since it launches people up rather than at a 45 degree angle which, I think, kills Luma sort of like how Captain Falcon's Rapid Jab finisher launches Luma. Guardian Orbitars can gimp certain characters like Ike who would just gets pushed back when using Aether or hit the Orbitars and enter freefall. I don't think Rosalina will have a problem, especially with that fast custom. Still, it might be better to not get send off stage and recover well since mistiming it could launch Rosalina into the Orbitars instead of the ledge. Power of Flight has an issue where if Pit's too close to the ledge, he won't grab it and instead, just goes above it, so he'll need to go a bit deeper for that. In other words, if Pit messes up his jumps and gets too close, but just far enough that he needs to use Power of Flight, Rosalina should be able to spike him or just wait after his Power of Flight screw up and Utilt him with Luma.

F-throw will kill, but that means Pit needs to face the ledge, D-throw combos as with pretty much every D-throw, B-throw's your standard B-throw, and U-throw I'm not sure, but I think he can combo out of it.

This is dated, but you could watch Jtails's video on him and Dark Pit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR1Znxxa_hA.

 

[mario123007]

Ness's discussion period is now over, and it seems that there just wasn't much to discuss about the Rosalina vs. Ness match-up. Regardless, I've added up all the ratio inputs to get an average.

[68:32]

The match-up favors Rosalina pretty well there.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Pit.

Pit is quick and has a good recovery, but his attack range isn't that good.
Rosalina can try to deal Pit by either koing him up to the top screen or just ko him horizontally.
I give 60:40

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Pit huh? Well, I faced plenty of Dark pits, so I hope this technically counts.

First off, it should be stated that the Pits are characters that are jack of all trades but masters of none.

The pits don't really have big advantages or big disadvantages. At least, thats what I hear. But it makes so much sense though.


When it comes to Pit vs Rosalina, the most important thing to note is that in a quite a bit of cases, he can both outrange and outspace Rosalina.

His Nair for example comes out quick and in a fashion thats hard to hit, and due to how long it lasts, it's hard to avoid. Doesn't help it's last hitbox extends even further. His forward tilt goes out pretty far as well.

His smashs are also pretty good at catching Rosalina. His downsmash is good for catching any roll and comes out decently quick. So does his forward smash.

But oh my god his up-smash. Good luck trying to avoid this on the way down. Due to Rosalina's floaty nature, it is very easy for the pits to catch you coming down with this. Down air won't save you in this instance due to both the lack of Down air's range, and the great range on Pit's up smash. What's that? Air dodge? Well, his up smash is out for quite a bit, so unless you're absolutely perfect about it, there is no airdodging that.

Grabs and throws also good, but don't know how to properly describe them myself.

Thats not even mentioning the gimping potential. Due to Pit's recovering abilities, he also isn't afraid of going deep either. He doesn't even need to. His aerials are perfect for trying to catch you going back stage. Down-air is a spike, N-air is huge, and back air usually kills when off stage.

Did I mention his moves are perfect for dealing with Luma? Even if he doesn't hit Rosalina, he is going to hit Luma. Pit isn't as good as Dark Pit in that regard though. Upperdash hitting Luma upward isn't really fantastic. Also, the moves leaves you helpless after hitting Luma anyway, which gives Rosalina a free punish.

With all this, it might sound like it's down and gloom for Rosalina. But Rosalina still has quite a bit of fantastic tricks up her sleeve to deal with the Pits.

Pit's damage output is slightly poor so if Rosalina can get hits in, she can very easily even it up. Especially when combined with Luma. Make sure Luma stays alive.

Rosalina's back air is still amazing. RAR is key to outranging and getting the upper hand. Bonus if you can get both Luma and the sweetspot. Though, the main focus should be just getting the Pits hit any chance you get.

Throwing out a properly spaced Nair can also catch a Pit off guard. Make sure, to use it for a surprise.

Rosalina can still gimp him. Not as easily other character due to his multiple jumps and very nice distance wise recovery, but it is still possible if you can gimp him just right.

Palutena's bow isn't that good with Gravitational pull. That doesn't mean spam it though as doing it too much could cause Pit to be able to hit you.

Rosalina can still juggle him with her classic up-air string/combos. Don't forgot to always use up throws and down throws to your advantage. Combos are insane on the pits. Don't go to far for a string though as an Nair is pretty upsetting thing to get caught in.


In conclusion, I find them equal. Just like how it usually is for the Pits. I mean the person should be using Dark Pit for the slight extra boost due to Electroshock, but if you do face a Pit, it's equal. Pit may have a lot of spacing capabilities, but Rosalina has damage and string capabilities.

50:50.

 

[Wintropy]

mfw In-depth analysis is consumed by accidental log-out.

Oh well, I'll just reiterate the basic details and share what I know of this matchup.

In a nutshell, Rosaluma wins this hands-down. She spaces better, has more range, eats our projectiles with down-b, can challenge our aerials, juggles well and has decent kill power. Her only real drawbacks are her lightweight stature and huge hitbox, both of which can be easily mitigated by just never letting Pit catch up to her.

Pit's a punishment character by nature, and we want to make you do something stupid and punish you for it. Thing is, that's predicated on the premise that we can get into your space at all. To borrow a comparison from my brother (a very skilled Rosaluma player), Rosie essentially creates a wall of hurt between herself and Luma: the entire space between the main body and the chubby star sprite is open for abuse as you see fit, and getting caught between there is a dangerous place for any opponent. Pit's lack of shield-safe options and need to rack up damage before KOing means he's especially vulnerable in this position, so if you catch Pit in the pincer position, you've basically got free reign to go nuts.

Pit likes to space, but this is an issue when he's faced with a mobile wall - which can hit back, no less. Luma is your best friend here: if Pit can't get through it to hit you at the other side of the mobile wall, he's a sitting duck. Even more bamboozling for Pit is that he has no definitive options for beating out Luma; Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm launches at an angle, which will get Luma out of the way with minimal effort, but Pit's Upperdash Arm launches vertically and isn't of much use at all. It'll knock Luma away for a couple of seconds, but unless that's enough to deplete its HP, it'll come back before long. And anyway, the endlag leaves him wide open for Rosie to punish him. Be wary if Luma is attached to you, though: the Arm will slide through and hit both yourself and Luma, so make sure Luma is at least a few steps away in order to stay safe. Keep your distance and keep Pit at arm's length and pressure away for optimal results.

To get to Rosie, we either have ignore Luma or take it out. The latter option is usually the best, so it means we have to go aggro to get it out of the way. This automatically puts put in a bizarre position, as he is primarily a defensive fighter and does not do well in rushdown situations. We can pressure you with dash, f-tilt, d-tilt and f-air, and we'll usually try to get you close to the edge so we can throw you off and force Luma to tumble to its death. You need to keep the pressure right back on us and ensure we don't get too comfortable smacking down on you: Pit doesn't respond well to pressure, and when his back is against the wall, he'll have to go all-out and risk everything to stay alive.

Presuming Luma to be out of the way, the matchup is a bit more even. You'll probably notice a change in tack with regards to Pit's strategy here: now that Luma's gone, it's our chance to make good of all the damage we've been steadily accruing up to this point. We will try to get you with our usual stuff - d-throw -> u-air, pivot f-tilt, etc. - and we're about even in terms of spacing potential and basic power. I'd argue Pit may have a very, very slight advantage in this case, as he can take advantage of his superior spacing tools and Rosie's hitbox to secure the KO. At 100% or above, you are in the danger zone: f-smash, sweetspot f-tilt, f-throw, b-air and Upperdash Arm can kill at these percents, and as outlined above, we'll take advantage of any damage accrued in the initial phase of the battle to kill you here. Pit needs a lot of damage to kill reliably, but when he gets the chance, he can kill quickly and cleanly without much hassle or effort.

In brief: use Luma to your advantage and keep Pit away, but don't be afraid to get stuck in and strike back if Pit's pressuring you. You can strike just as hard and fast as Pit can, so the real advantage here is your superior spacing tool: Luma makes this matchup into a nightmare for Pit, and I think it's easily one of our toughest matchups. I'll be happy to play anybody that wants to get a better idea of how the matchup works, since I could do with the training myself~

70 : 30 ​

 

[C3PO]

Maybe this doesn't belong here at this time as I don't regularly (at all) view Rosa boards and I'm sure you all already know this bit of Diddy vs Rosa MU.

You've got an option with spinning luma to very effectively edgeguard a diddy grabbing the ledge. In this situation, diddy cannot contest the luma with an aerial, cannot upb past luma; this severly limits diddy's options and can lead to an easy gimp if not analysed correctly by diddy.
The two situations can be dealt with as followed:

1. If the luma is precisely in line with the tip of the edge (right above it) and doing the spin attack, diddy can safely punish Rosa by ledge dropping (away from ledge), jumping and using side-B kick.
2. If the luma is just over the ledge (spinning in the air), diddy can safely roll onto the stage, and turn around grab rosa.

Again, very specific MU bits, that are probably past due and already known by you Rosa experts.
Hope it helps.

 

[Hmmmm]

So I've been lurking for a while and have just decided to post stuff here.

Anyway, it seems like Pit's going to have a hard time against Luma. Pit needs to get in to Rosalina, but Luma prevents him from doing that. Rosaluma can space him out easily. If Pit tried to get rid of Luma by doing something risky, a Rosalina would punish him accordingly. Stage control is big in this matchup. If Rosaluma has stage control, which they will usually have, Pit will get beaten up.

However, Pit might be able to get rid of Luma... Eventually. And then the matchup is easily in his favor. Also, Pit could abuse Luma with his arrows and stay out of Rosaluma's range, and gimp Rosalina and Luma's recovery with Down B

I'd give this 75:25

 

[9Tales]

I was actually not gonna comment on Pit because I felt like I had too little experience with / understanding of him. But then I met and hung out with a Pit secondary over the weekend and I feel like I have a much better understanding now.

This MU is prolly around 60:40, Palutena's Bow has enough disjoint to it to harass Luma without Luma being able to retaliate. Plus Pit's nair strings can be really brutal if you get caught in them (which isn't too hard) Actually Pit's disjoint in general is pretty solid, like on par with sword characters, and he has a lot of good options at any moment as well.

Pit does seemingly lack early KO moves / set ups, or if he has them I haven't see them yet. But yeah he seems reliant on building you to standard KO percents in order to actually get KOs (outside of like gimps or something) And then basically all of Rosalina's strengths are still around. I found that, because a lot of Pit's moves have a multi-hit function and disjoint to them, you can deal with Pit by abusing Luma in a slightly meaner way than usual.
Zone Pit with Luma the way you normally do to anyone, sometimes, that's enough XD, however sometimes the Pit becomes motivated to "safely" attack Luma with his disjoint. This is rarely actually safe because Pit has to go through insane amount of hit stun for multi-hit connecting with Luma. So then you just punish with Rosalina. Rinse and repeat. I'm sure there are safe ways for Pit to handle Luma but he has to be really careful with using hit stun heavy attacks.

Functionally Pit ( and Dark Pit) have the like, most similar recovery of the whole cast to Rosalina. Both are equally gimp-able/ gaurdable by the other so no strong advantage to anyone, imo

 

[ChikoLad]

Whatever Pit's result is, we may as well give Dark Pit five points less, if not the exact same. The only real difference he has compared to Pit in this MU is that he can KO Luma earlier with Electroshock compared to Pit with Upper Dash Arm, but he can't KO Rosalina as early with it. This is because Upper Dash Arm launches things upwards, while Electroshock launches them to the side. Dark Pit can basically one-shot Luma with Electroshock, but to KO Rosalina with that move, he needs her to be at the side, while Pit's Upper Dash Arm will KO her just as early from any point of a flat stage. He also can't zone as well, as his arrows can't curve as well, and only do 1% more damage if I am not mistaken.

I think Rosalina can take on the Pits (and a lot of other characters in the game) just fine without Luma's help, so I really don't see it as a game changer. If anything, Electroshock being able to KO Luma earlier will just press players of Dark Pit to want to use it more, but the move is so telegraphed and punishable you should literally never end up letting Rosalina take a hit from it, (let alone Luma to be honest).

So yeah, just saying that whatever Pit gets, Dark Pit should get the same or 5 points less. He is not different enough to warrant a whole new discussion period in this MU, let alone one that lasts 3 days, and any differences he does have arguably just leave him at more of a disadvantage than Pit (who is already at quite the disadvantage as it is).

The exact same principle should apply to Marth and Lucina when we get around to them, since Lucina has one disadvantage compared to Marth across the board against any character in the game, so she won't warrant a unique discussion period either.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

The exact same principle should apply to Marth and Lucina when we get around to them, since Lucina has one disadvantage compared to Marth across the board against any character in the game, so she won't warrant a unique discussion period either.

The important thing about Lucina is that unlike Marth all her attacks aren't safe on shield unike Marth, who can have attacks safe on shield thanks to tipper.

We will need to evaluate how much of an effect that has with Lucina.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Pit's discussion period is now over, so here's the overall average that I've gotten for the Rosalina vs. Pit match-up, based on the ratio inputs that I've recorded.

[63:37]

Rosalina wins this match-up.

Next up, it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Marth.

 

[ChikoLad]

The important thing about Lucina is that unlike Marth all her attacks aren't safe on shield unike Marth, who can have attacks safe on shield thanks to tipper.

We will need to evaluate how much of an effect that has with Lucina.

We don't need to deeply analyse that. It simply means she's more punishable, combined with the fact that she gets less mileage on her moves.