Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[Paper Maribro]

I agree with most of what you said. How does she force Pac-Man to approach though?

She forces us to make unsafe approaches because we need Luma dead. Any approach with Luma around is dangerous due
to the extended range and power he provides.

 

[Nu~]

I think he meant approaching in general. Not how safe it would be.
Rosa has no long range projectile to pressure us, and sending out luma is a very bad choice against us.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I think he meant approaching in general. Not how safe it would be.
Rosa has no long range projectile to pressure us, and sending out luma is a very bad choice against us.

I never said anything about Rosalina forcing us to approach, merely that any approach we make is dangerous.

 

[Nu~]

I never said anything about Rosalina forcing us to approach, merely that any approach we make is dangerous.

Ah. The way BSP worded made it appear that way.
Guess that's what I get for assuming

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think he meant approaching in general. Not how safe it would be.
Rosa has no long range projectile to pressure us, and sending out luma is a very bad choice against us.

If you're fighting with customizations, however, PAC-MAN players will have to watch out for Shooting Star Bit.

 

[Nu~]

If you're fighting with customizations, however, PAC-MAN players will have to watch out for Shooting Star Bit.

Our Side B blocks it and heals us
It's the least of our concerns in this matchup (why oh why GP)

 

[makemesmellbad]

I believe since Pac doesn't have too many close range SOS moves could be a factor as well. If Pac just tries to outrange Rosa, GP starts to come out more frequently, and Luma pressure becomes an issue when Rosa starts to find holes in Pac's walls, pushing through with a wall of her own. I, personally, have never had problems taking out a Luma when Rosa gets aggressive from a distance, but I can see how a series of f-tilt locks on Luma can leave Pac vulnerable to punishment if he doesn't pay attention.
I think the biggest problem of the Pac v. Rosa match up is that Pac doesn't have too many safe ways to get around Rosa's jab wall with Luma. The most Pac can do is start chucking fruit and hydrants at Rosa, but, once again, GP is just too fast and strong against Pac's traps. I haven't played a single match against a good Rosa player where they haven't GP'd most of my traps. The biggest advantage we have over GP is that it doesn't steal the trampoline (a severely underused trap that is one of the staples to Pac's stage control).

 

[Nu~]

I have been trying my best to abuse GP to access Z drop fruit quickly. It doesn't change the fact that we are severely outranged, but it does help us get the key in our hands faster. If she tries to GP a close range z drop, punish her hard.
Otherwise, this is definitely our worst matchup. Good thing it's our only counter though everyone else is very manageable (especially as time goes by and we discover new techs and traps)
Having rosa as a bad matchup hurts, but not too bad because Rosa's playstyle is a big turn off to some smash players. Pac still has a high possibility of soloing a tourney.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Pac-Man is not hard for Rosalina. She can suck in his projectiles easily, and her ground game is far greater than Pac-Man's ground options. Be careful with the key and bell, though, since no Rosalina player will appreciate taking a hit from those (same goes for all characters, actually). Definitely in Rosalina's favor.

65:35

If you're fighting with customizations, however, PAC-MAN players will have to watch out for Shooting Star Bit.

Custom moves really adds a ton of variables to match-ups I'd say.

 

[makemesmellbad]

Another huge aspect of this matchup is that both characters have a huge focus on stage control. Where Pac's strength lies in idle stage control with a high quantitative advantage, Rosa's lies in active control, with a strength in versatility. Pac can easily overwhelm a Rosa player, but one wrong move and Rosa's got the stage, and vice versa. The battle easily becomes "who can adapt faster and smarter as soon as possible" from the start to the finish, and that's mainly what it boils down to. The Rosa player I train with, however, doesn't abuse GP nearly as much as most other Rosa players because he focuses on aggression, which forces me, as a Pac player, to play on the defensive. I don't think it's impossible, but I don't think Pac will win very often against smart Rosa players because Rosa's down special is just too damn good, lol.

 

[Nu~]

Another huge aspect of this matchup is that both characters have a huge focus on stage control. Where Pac's strength lies in idle stage control with a high quantitative advantage, Rosa's lies in active control, with a strength in versatility. Pac can easily overwhelm a Rosa player, but one wrong move and Rosa's got the stage, and vice versa. The battle easily becomes "who can adapt faster and smarter as soon as possible" from the start to the finish, and that's mainly what it boils down to. The Rosa player I train with, however, doesn't abuse GP nearly as much as most other Rosa players because he focuses on aggression, which forces me, as a Pac player, to play on the defensive. I don't think it's impossible, but I don't think Pac will win very often against smart Rosa players because Rosa's down special is just too damn good, lol.

I would argue that pac's stage control is just as, if not more, versatile than rosaluma's. Our stage control is like a labyrinth that can be changed depending on how the opponent tries to get through, and can be used for both defensive and offensive purposes (trampoline and hydrant can be used to give us time to charge, or the both can be used highly offensively such as launching the hydrant in different ways towards the opponent, or using the tranpoline as an offensive ledge trap)

However, you summed up the matchup so well and thoroughly ^^. Your point still stands.

 

[makemesmellbad]

I believe Rosa's is more versatile because she essentially is controlling two characters at once, both with different abilities and she can space Luma out at specific lengths. Pac, however, has traps which are mainly idle, and, while forcing the player to play around them in (hopefully) unfavorable ways, they are still able to be used against him. Rosa's only weakness with Luma (aside from Luma being able to be KO'd for a short period of time) is that Luma can be reflected as a projectile whilst being charge-shotted. Pac doesn't have a reflector, however, and perfect shielding doesn't reflect Luma because of Luma's specific properties, so the main "backfire" with Luma being on the field isn't there for Pac to exploit as much as, say, Mario or Falco can (Falco has a fairly easy time with his kick-reflect).

 

[R e d X]

One of my best friends in the community mains Pacman, so I've played this one an awful lot. Rosa shuts him down pretty good, I think it's a solid 65:35 for us

 

[makemesmellbad]

One of my best friends in the community mains Pacman, so I've played this one an awful lot. Rosa shuts him down pretty good, I think it's a solid 65:35 for us

I wouldn't say it's that low, but I would agree the MU is in Rosa's favor. You have to remember that Pac can fill a LOT of playstyles, and Rosa mainly rewards a defensive one. Once Luma is dead (easier said than done), I believe Pac has the advantage in the neutral just because of his sheer amount of options. Once Luma respawns, however, it comes back to a baiting game.

 

[Nu~]

I believe that the matchup is about 40:60. Once Luma is gone, we can wreak havoc, but it's an uphill battle once he's back.
We really have to focus on killing Luma in this matchup. Then we start switching playstyles once it's out of the way

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I believe that the matchup is about 40:60. Once Luma is gone, we can wreak havoc, but it's an uphill battle once he's back.
We really have to focus on killing Luna in this matchup. Then we start switching playstyles once it's out of the way

I know that you've said 40:60 already, but is this still favoring Rosalina?

 

[Nu~]

I know that you've said 40:60 already, but is this still favoring Rosalina?

Yeah. Sry for not being specific

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

PAC-MAN's discussion period has come to a close. As such, I've added up all the ratio inputs for the Rosalina vs. PAC-MAN match-up, to get the overall average.

[63:37]

Rosalina pretty much has a decent advantage against PAC-MAN's offensive skills.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Toon Link.

 

[mario123007]

Toon Link

• A bit quicker attacks
• Strong side Smash, but a weak up smash
• Short serial attack range
• Many,many, good projectiles can give Rosalina pressure, or KO Luma without actually hitting it.
• Has a powerful Up aerial and Down aerial, Down aerial is a bit dangerous to use when outside of the stage.
• Has a long range hook shot grab, can easily grab Rosalina and do combos, and has more controllable recovery.
• Final Smash needs to lock on opponents by getting near.

Rosalina & Luma

• Has a bit slower attacks.
• Better aerial attack range, strong and quick up smash(Has more range when Luma is on her side).
• Aerial attacks can do more damage
• GP can get rid of most projectile, but can cause an opening
• Poorer controllable recovery, can easily get punished on the edge.
• Final Smash can just activate immediately

I say it's 50:50 (Don't really take my final smash analysis as the MU analysis. I just anaylize it for my own purpose.)

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

In up close combat, Rosalina wins. However when TLink is zoning with projectiles they can actually give Rosalina a decent amount of trouble, despite what GP might say. With Luma, she outranges him with almost every attack. Althought it probably won't come into play too often, she can also do Luma Shot, a jab or two to space it forward, and aerial grab release TLink for a KO with Luma usmash.
I'm going to agree with mario123007 and say 50:50.

 

[mario123007]

In up close combat, Rosalina wins. However when TLink is zoning with projectiles they can actually give Rosalina a decent amount of trouble, despite what GP might say. With Luma, she outranges him with almost every attack. Althought it probably won't come into play too often, she can also do Luma Shot, a jab or two to space it forward, and aerial grab release TLink for a KO with Luma usmash.
I'm going to agree with mario123007 and say 50:50.

Oh yeah I forgot about Luma... but I think Lumas can't last long when facing a bomb, arrow, boomerang. Once you lose luma, you will have a hard time to get close to Toon Link.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Toon Link

• A bit quicker attacks
• Strong side Smash, faster Up Smash
• Short serial attack range
• Many,many, good projectiles can give Rosalina pressure, or KO Luma without actually hitting it.
• Has a powerful Up aerial and Down aerial, Down aerial is a bit dangerous to use when outside of the stage.
• Has a long range hook shot grab, can easily grab Rosalina and do combos, and has more controllable recovery.
• Final Smash needs to lock on opponents by getting near.

Rosalina & Luma

• Has a bit slower attacks.
• Better aerial attack range
• Aerial attacks can do more damage
• GP can get rid of most projectile, but can cause an opening
• Poorer controllable recovery, can easily get punished on the edge.
• Final Smash can just activate immediately

I say it's 50:50

What does a character final smash have to do with anything?

 

[mario123007]

What does a character final smash have to do with anything?

On 1v1 there can be final smashes right? I just made a simple compare which of their final smash is better in any way. The match up rules didn't say there won't be any Smash balls right? You can just take it as a reference.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

On 1v1 there can be final smashes right? I just made a simple compare which of their final smash is better in any way. The match up rules didn't say there won't be any Smash balls right? You can just take it as a reference.

It's not a reference for anyone.

 

[mario123007]

It's not a reference for anyone.

What do you mean "Not a reference for anyone?"
You don't really have to consider it as necessary, some of the character's final Smash are easy to use and KO opponents, but some need to lock on opponents in order to activate the final Smash.
Although Final Smash comparison in a MU can be unnecessary (Depending on the rules you set), but hey that's just on of my analysis on the moves of characters.

 

[9Tales]

I personally feel Toon Link is among the most underrated characters in the game right now. That said I also don't think this is his match up XD He's just a little too light and too prone to Rosalina anti air (which is also where half her KO potential is) and then he doesn't turn heads with his Luma killing power.

65:35

 

[ParanoidDrone]

What do you mean "Not a reference for anyone?"
You don't really have to consider it as necessary, some of the character's final Smash are easy to use and KO opponents, but some need to lock on opponents in order to activate the final Smash.
Although Final Smash comparison in a MU can be unnecessary (Depending on the rules you set), but hey that's just on of my analysis on the moves of characters.

But unless I missed a rather large memo, we don't use Final Smashes in competitive play so the point is moot.

 

[SoundChow]

I think that this matchup is 60-40 for Rosalina.
It's hard to set up a wall of projectiles on the ground because luma takes all the damage, so I'll usually throw bombs and boomerangs down from the air, go for fair/u-air followups, and just zone her until she loses luma.
Toon Link is fast and mobile and can get away from Rosalina quickly, however if you trap him near the ledge, then you'll probably be able to land a powerful hit because of Rosalina and luma's insane range, or if you catch him in the air you can u-air combo him to death. Plus since he's light, you can KO him pretty early.
This is a very annoying matchup for him in my opinion.

 

[mario123007]

But unless I missed a rather large memo, we don't use Final Smashes in competitive play so the point is moot.

Agreed...

 

[Niner]

I've played this matchup often, and it's easily in Rosa's favor, 70:30.
Toon Link relies on u-air, f-smash and occasionally b-throw for kills. Rosalina is most likely to be killed by u-air, as her weight and floatyness allows her to easily fall out of Tink's f-smash second hit. Also be wary of his ranged grab going through Luma.
Luma and Gravity Pull can easily wall him out of his slow projectiles, and considering the long timer on Tink's bomb, can be used to Rosa's advantage. His weight, pretty slow air speed, and predictable recovery put him at an off-stage disadvantage.

 

[CHOMPY]

CALLING OUT ALL players! We are currently discussing the matchup between vs.

If you guys have any input on the matchup, please click on the link below!

http://smashboards.com/threads/matchup-discussion-rosalina-luma.390741/

 

[mario123007]

I've played this matchup often, and it's easily in Rosa's favor, 70:30.
Toon Link relies on u-air, f-smash and occasionally b-throw for kills. Rosalina is most likely to be killed by u-air, as her weight and floatyness allows her to easily fall out of Tink's f-smash second hit. Also be wary of his ranged grab going through Luma.
Luma and Gravity Pull can easily wall him out of his slow projectiles, and considering the long timer on Tink's bomb, can be used to Rosa's advantage. His weight, pretty slow air speed, and predictable recovery put him at an off-stage disadvantage.

Toon Link's u-air , d-air,and side smash are very devastating, but his d-air is very risky when using it send opponents down the stage. Rosalina is indeed floaty which can give Toon Link a chance to punish her. There are many ko potentials for Toon Link if he can give Rosalina a fair enough damage. But the biggest advantage for Rosalina still has too be Luma. But what you say about Toon Link's predictable recovery, Rosalina's recovery also has a bit risk, she is not invincible when recover, giving Toon Link a chance to give her a d-air ko. So I still think this match up is even.
But you MU video I think is legit too. Good analysis.

 

[incrediblej]

But the biggest advantage for Rosalina still has too be Luma. I still think this match up is even.

I main toon link and I've never had trouble with luma if I was careful if Rosa is close to the edge a well times boomerang can knock luma off the stage. toon link won't be fighting in the air unless it's to finish off the enemy with an arial. I say rosa has an advantage of about 60:40 at the most. But that's my opinion

 

[mario123007]

I main toon link and I've never had trouble with luma if I was careful if Rosa is close to the edge a well times boomerang can knock luma off the stage. toon link won't be fighting in the air unless it's to finish off the enemy with an arial. I say rosa has an advantage of about 60:40 at the most. But that's my opinion

Toon Link nuff said can easily take Luma down by his many projectiles, but the GP. It is still a close match to me.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just so that people are aware, Rosalina can Gravitational Pull Toon Link's arrows and Boomerang, but Toon Link's Bombs will still self-destruct after being attracted to Gravitational Pull, so she will have to use them quickly.

On a side note, Toon Link's Short-Fuse Bomb custom special will explode too quickly for Rosalina to take advantage of the move, so Gravitational Pulling it will likely be a bad move if the explosion can still affect her.

 

[Scamper52596]

Maybe it's just the Rosalina's I've played, but I think it's way closer of a match up than some of you are giving it credit for.

I find that Toon Link's projectiles do a good job keeping Luma in place, so it doesn't give me too much trouble. Because Rosalina is a bigger character, she's not too difficult for me to zone, with or without Luma. When Rosalina starts getting too greedy with grabbing my projectiles, I'll usually hold a bomb until it's about to explode before sending it her way, so be careful with her Down B. I mostly rely on Fairs for my K.O.s in this match up. Because she is so light Toon Link's Fair will K.O. earlier than other characters, so be wary of that. Same with his Up Air. That being said, Rosalina definitely beats Toon Link in aerial combat. Both her Up Air and Down Air pretty much out prioritize anything Toon Link can do while killing him early, and her Fair and Bair have a lot of range. Her Smashes are a good way to get Toon Link out if he gets a little too comfortable up close, and they're good for guarding the ledge along with Luma as he's trying to recover. Also be aware that both characters have good tactics for ledge guarding in this match up. Toon Link's projectiles and Dair spike, and Rosalina's Smashes and safer Dair spike. On Battlefield Rosalina can give Toon Link quite a bit of trouble as her attacks can reach above her head and through the lower platforms so those areas aren't too safe for him, but Smashvill will give Toon Link a little more space to get around.

On personal experience alone I would rate this match up at about 52/48 in Toon Link's favor, but I definitely won't deny that a good Rosalina can be very troubling for a Toon Link main. It's pretty even in my opinion.

 

[iiGGYxD]

I agree with scamper on this one. I play my brother regularly with the TL vs Rosa mu and he definitely has the tools to give rosa trouble. TL can act immediately after throwing a bomb meaning that he can easily bait a GP and punish with whatever he wants. I personally just use GP at mid to long range when they're throwing rangs / arrows. I've got pretty good at just instathrowing the bombs back at TL as that is the better option over using GP.

A big tool in this MU is reading the TL's bomb pull. I'd say more than half my kills in this mu come down to reading the bomb pull and hitting them with an uair for the kill. I'll label the mu as 55:45 rosa favor as i do feel she has the upperhand when it comes to sealing the stock over TL.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

On personal experience alone I would rate this match up at about 52/48 in Toon Link's favor, but I definitely won't deny that a good Rosalina can be very troubling for a Toon Link main. It's pretty even in my opinion.

I'll put you down as 50:50, if that's okay with you.

 

[MezzoMe]

What are the options for against 's Bair, especially his fastfallen self, in case she uses it to take the bomb instead of Gravitational Pull?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

As a main my biggest problem with has to be the Luma. My projectiles get absorbed by this little guy and since they do little damage, I am required to use more to get rid of him when approaching.

Down Smash helps when separating the duo, but this seems to be my only secure method of doing so. Once separated it is important to decide whether or not to Side Smash either Luma or Rosalina to further distant the duo if you have the chance or want to risk it.

Aerial wise, approaching Rosalina from the air sideways usually goes in my favor due to fast forward and backward aerial attacks.

Edit: Boomerangs help with aerial encounters due to the flinch and reaction it will cause, just make sure to throw it out before the encounter and at an angle to force Rosalina to react.

Grabbing only works well if Luma is gone.

I have not fought many Rosalina's 1v1, but what I can guess, this match up goes:

55:45: Favor's

The usage of the Luma and dealing with it are what makes this match up difficult, due to Luma sponging up Toon Link's fast projectile game.