Data Rosalina Match-Up Analysis (Obsolete & Succeeded)

[meleebrawler]

Speaking of customs, does pull work on Clay Break before it's shot?

He also has speedy gunmen for pressure, or if shooting stars are too much for him
then Mega Gunmen give him time to breathe.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sheik's discussion period will be starting after today, but I did want to reveal the next set of fighters that we'll be analyzing after Sheik's discussion period is over.

• 2/8/2015 - 2/10/2015:
• 2/11/2015 - 2/13/2015:
• 2/14/2015 - 2/16/2015:
• 2/17/2015 - 2/19/2015:
• 2/20/2015 - 2/22/2015:

 

[Space Mom Jojo]

Shiek is gonna be a can of worms. I have little experience against GOOD Shiek players because it's really easy to play decently as her. I'm gonna watch and read what some of the other people write before lending any contribution myself. This is one of the most vital matchups I think, just given Shiek's vastly different playstyle and top tier status.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Did I already comment on this? I can't even remember. I think it's 6:4 Rosalina's favor since we can shut down the zoning game pretty hard but Duck Hunt does have some good range and disjoint on enough moves where we can't poke for free. Is the old glitch fixed? The one where we could make the clay pidgeon (or was it the can?) unusable for the entire match?

Also, what are Duck Hunt's best options for hitting Luma away?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Sheik's discussion period will be starting after today, but I did want to reveal the next set of fighters that we'll be analyzing after Sheik's discussion period is over.

• 2/8/2015 - 2/10/2015:
• 2/11/2015 - 2/13/2015:
• 2/14/2015 - 2/16/2015:
• 2/17/2015 - 2/19/2015:
• 2/20/2015 - 2/22/2015:

Dude can we please get so MU discussion on relevant characters omfg.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Dude can we please get so MU discussion on relevant characters omfg.

IkR, Rosalina beats them all.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Dude can we please get so MU discussion on relevant characters omfg.

Everyone has to be analyzed at least once, so it does not matter if you think that the scheduled characters are irrelevant.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Everyone has to be analyzed at least once, so it does not matter if you think that the scheduled characters are irrelevant.

Yes so let's discuss the more popular characters first and leave these niche characters alone.

I can literally count on 1 hand how many times I've gone across the next 5 characters. They're rare obscure characters. If this is a competitive site we should gear our discussion around the most likely characters we're going to see. I know the Apex results and don't need them brought up.

 

[Space Mom Jojo]

If you want to analyze those matchups, nobody is stopping you. There is an established, efficient method that we're using to make this list. There's no need to change it halfway through.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Duck Hunt's discussion period is now over, and the ratios have been added up to get the average for the Rosalina vs. Duck Hunt match-up.

[57.5:42.5]

Rosalina has a slight advantage for this match-up.

Next up, we'll be analyzing Rosalina's match-up against Zelda's alter-ego, Sheik.

 

[icraq]

finally something relevant!

sheik is a beast, she can ko rosa early with edge guarding and destroy luma with ease.

it's hard to say exactly who's favor this MU is in, i'd say it's pretty close to even. rosa's defensive game just works so well here. sticking to quick attacks like nair and jab and grabs and dtilt and usmash if you know it's going to hit, sheik has a very very hard time getting in on rosa. luma can also be used to get sheik off of you by recalling luma with an attack.

spacing is key and using proper DI if sheik gets in close. at early mid percents if you DI away on sheik's fthrow you'll catch a bouncing fish, but you can avoid it by DIing towards sheik.

this MU i feel was easier pre patch when rosa could control luma mid hitstun. seemed like no matter what if i had luma sheik couldn't do anything to me.

i honestly wouldn't try to edge guard sheik off stage, it's way too risky if sheik turns the tables and forces you to recover instead. if played right, sheik can prevent rosa from ever returning. something i think might be good is if sheik is forced to recover low, grab the ledge and ledge hop dair right about when sheik uses vanish, depending on distance. rosa's dair can catch sheik's ledge snap vulnerability.

i actually like this MU quite a bit, it showcases some of smash 4's best defensive and offensive games.

 

[mario123007]

Sheik
Quick and can deal a lot of damage when doing its best combos, and his side B can keep Luma away too.
Rosalina & Luma
Her attacks are just too slow for competing with Sheik, whenever she has a slight lag, Sheik can punish her easily.
To sum up, this is not a good match up for Rosalina, most fast characters seems to be tough for Rosalina to beat.
:25:75

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@ icraq : Since you're saying that the Rosalina vs. Sheik match-up is close to even, I'll put you down as 50:50. Is that okay with you?

 

[WhiteMageBD]

This match up is 48:52 in shiek favor. Rosa has to play her defensive, zoning game to win. Also be very careful using your recovery because a careless fire will get you gimped by shiek. Shiek is overall too fast for Rosy and you need luma by your side to stand a chance, if luma gone, just run until he comes back, and only throw in safe hits when shiek is open. Never use smashes unless you know its going to connect because the shiek will easily punish one otherwise. You also want to juggle shiek to rack up as much damage as possible for the kill. Overall, Rosy has to put a little more effort to win, Make sure to hold the middle of the stage because shiek will have a hard time killing you without edgeguards.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This match up is 48:52 in shiek favor. Rosa has to play her defensive, zoning game to win. Also be very careful using your recovery because a careless fire will get you gimped by shiek. Shiek is overall too fast for Rosy and you need luma by your side to stand a chance, if luma gone, just run until he comes back, and only throw in safe hits when shiek is open. Never use smashes unless you know its going to connect because the shiek will easily punish one otherwise. You also want to juggle shiek to rack up as much damage as possible for the kill. Overall, Rosy has to put a little more effort to win, Make sure to hold the middle of the stage because shiek will have a hard time killing you without edgeguards.

Can you modify your ratio so that it's divisible by 5? The one that you've inputted doesn't follow the rules.

 

[WhiteMageBD]

Can you modify your ratio so that it's divisible by 5? The one that you've inputted doesn't follow the rules.

ok, 45:55 it is then. sounds about right anyway

 

[9Tales]

Rosa v Sheik
50:50

I'm too lazy to type about it for now but maybe I will later, lol, but bullet points

• Sheik > Rosa at pursuit kills and most edge guards
• Rosa > Shiek at spacing/zoning
  
• Outside of edge guards Rosa > Sheik at early KOs
  
• Sheik is really really average at KOing Luma
• Rage mechanic benefits Rosalina A Lot

Sometimes after watching Dabuz I think this matchup might be 55:45 but I'll stick to 50:50

 

[Dabuz]

40:60 when sheik plays right, too bad the only sheik to play it right is nietono

 

[Space Mom Jojo]

I really need to play this matchup more, since I don't see many Shiek players for some reason. So far I can just say that I agree on the points that Rosa has the zoning advantage, but Shiek has an easier time getting kills. In general, Rosalina seems to do better against slower characters. I'm just not sure that that means she is disadvantaged against faster characters.

 

[Castell]

Sheik.
Alright I'll admit I don't have the greatest amount of experience fighting sheik so I can't give thoughts that are 100% concrete but I'll give some speculations.
Neutral:
Sheik does beat us here, if slightly. Lagless aerials, needles, bouncing fish, and ftilt are all pretty dangerous. Sheiks dash attack does okay as a Luma killer but it's very punishable. Thankfully, Sheik does low damage per hit so Luma doesn't get destroyed immediately. Luma can protect us from needles and maybe bouncing fish if it hits him. Other than that I can't think of anything crippling for us. Sheik's offense is so much better/ safer than ours, it probably a better idea to play defense and zone her out. Our tilts have better range so we should space her out from the ground if possible. Using nair, bair, and dtilt to space works great.

When Sheik has the advantage:
If we have Luma then we're afforded a margin of error. But the main thing about this MU is that even when Sheik has the advantage, she doesn't really have the right tools to punish us hard beyond maybe a sweetspot up-smash or bair into stage spike. Our recovery is amazing, even if we get a bair/bouncing fish/needle offstage at 80-100%, DI will let us survive and we'll make it to the ledge. Sheik's grab combos are more dangerous without Luma, but sheik throws and follow-ups is more about moving people offstage to edge-guard them rather than dealing high damage or killing. Sheik is however fast enough to make landing on or off stage annoying, but lack of kill power and good damage doesn't make it scary, unless Sheik has rage. Gravity pull is too slow/ Needle is too fast for it to matter.

When Rosalina has the advantage:
Up-air juggling is still really good to build damage and KO. Bouncing fish isn't as good as say monkey flip to escape from it. We have the better kill power even without Luma and with Luma we have more range. Sheik isn't difficult to edge-guard. I've had fair straight up beat bouncing fish and dair is decent enough to go for the 1 frame vulnerability. Sheik really doesn't have periods where she's punishable due to low lag, but we can punish hard with our amazing upsmash. We'll kill earlier and most likely get her into rage first which affects her combo ability especially with our lightweight.

I give it 40:60 in Sheik's favor solely due to how much better Sheik's neutral game is, but can't capitalize hard off of punishes. If Sheik plays the MU right, yeah it's an uphill battle but not a extremely difficult one.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Sheik's discussion period will be starting after today, but I did want to reveal the next set of fighters that we'll be analyzing after Sheik's discussion period is over.

• 2/8/2015 - 2/10/2015:
• 2/11/2015 - 2/13/2015:
• 2/14/2015 - 2/16/2015:
• 2/17/2015 - 2/19/2015:
• 2/20/2015 - 2/22/2015:

I see you're about to discuss the King.

The Ganon board just started discussing you: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...ssion-current-rosalina-and-luma.373934/unread

 

[icraq]

@ icraq : Since you're saying that the Rosalina vs. Sheik match-up is close to even, I'll put you down as 50:50. Is that okay with you?

I'd prefer to not contribute anything to the ratio, thank you for checking with me first though. I just want my input to revolve more on the matchup details.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Omfg finally a MU that's important. I've played this MU a bit but need more work at the MU. Im going to say it's slightly in Rosalina's favor 55:45.

Shiek is a major pain in the ass when you try to recover. She edgeguards you probably the best of any character. You have to use dkuble jumps accordingly and switch up B timings to try and throw her off. Then she also has the ability to trump you which can be deadly. Shiek trump game is also top notch so you aren't really safe until you hit the stage.

She fair is fast safe hard to punish starts up in 4 frames like more her aerials. It takes out luma pretty easily. On the ground sheiks moves are also fast i think her jab is 2 frames with 4 tikt being four. I haven't tried but I'm curious how utilt and usmash do vs fair.

While you can't edgeguard shiek as well as she can you. You can still be pretty effective with ledge traps and taking advantage of Rosalina's natural advantages.

Spacing on jab and dtilt is very important their your fastest moves on the ground and are very important. Use the superior range to your advantage and safely poke at sheik.

Shiek you're goimg to want above you this is probably sheiks biggest weakness. Take into account bouncing fish when your chasing her down. But if you get grabs uthrow her then give her a healthy dose of some uairs.

While sheik may not kill uou as early as you kill her you most be careful. Sheik's kill moves are vanish uair bair and usmash bouncing fish. Rosalina should have rage most time and should be able to get some decently early kills.

I've also seen luma interrupt some fair strings. So keep that in mind.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'd prefer to not contribute anything to the ratio, thank you for checking with me first though. I just want my input to revolve more on the matchup details.

Very well. I'll exclude you from this discussion period's match-up ratio tally.

 

[mario123007]

40:60 when sheik plays right, too bad the only sheik to play it right is nietono

How is his Sheik? And what kind of combo does he activates? Any videos too?

 

[Ladyspiker]

40:60 in Sheik's favor, since we're assuming both players are playing at their best. Along with what everyone else has said, I'll add that:
- Luma Shot (charged) shouldn't be used much in this match-up if at all...a single needle when charging will stop Luma. If you aren't fast enough, Sheik will come in with a follow-up (like Bouncing Fish). Besides, it's essential that Luma be close by in this match.
- GP for Grenade has to be fast (while string is still attached)
- Similarly, GP for Needles is very risky because the only way you're going to pull them in with GP is if you throw the move out before when you think Sheik is going to use it. However, if it isn't used, it leaves you open for n attack. This only really works well if the Sheik player gets predictable with their Needle usage.
- Down tilt, pivot grabs and Jab are pretty useful in this match
- F-smash should be used very sparingly (ideally only for kills, if that)

That said, I've never had trouble with Sheik, but that's more because of the players...a really good Sheik will be a very difficult match-up for Rosalina.

I really should get the Sheik amiibo because I'm curious what a level 50 Sheik plays like...

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

How is his Sheik? And what kind of combo does he activates? Any videos too?

There's a video but I didn't really see anything that made nietono loom superior to other sheiks. I'm not really sure what's the difference is.

Here's the match

http://youtu.be/BZTGAwsQdY4

Vs. MR. R
http://youtu.be/_laBqsAQxso

 

[R e d X]

Very confident this Sheik's favour, something like 40-60 or 35-65 imo... for now I'll go with 4-6 for my vote though

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sheik's discussion period has come to an end, so I've added up all the ratios to get the average. Therefore, here's the ratio average for Rosalina vs. Sheik...

[42:58]

Sadly, Sheik has the upper hand against the Cosmic Queen herself.

Now it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against the Ancient Minister. Joking, it's just R.O.B..

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

Sheik's discussion period has come to an end, so I've added up all the ratios to get the average. Therefore, here's the ratio average for Rosalina vs. Sheik...

[42:58]

Sadly, Sheik has the upper hand against the Cosmic Queen herself.

Now it's time to analyze Rosalina's match-up against the Ancient Minister. Joking, it's just R.O.B..

WAIT NOOOOOO, I WAS TYPING MINE OUT

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

WAIT NOOOOOO, I WAS TYPING MINE OUT

We'll come back to Sheik at a later date. Sorry.

 

[Parcheesy]

So Rob is a fun matchup. A very skilled Rob goes to a local venue near me, so I've gotten a bit of practice against top tier Rob.

Pros:
- GP, like in most of these matchups, matters. Being able to steal the top, and use it in conjunction with Luma gives Rosalina an incredible amount of stage presence. It's also important to GP the lasers near the ledge, otherwise risk losing Luma while shielding.

- Rob's recovery is fairly weak to persistent drawn out edgeguards, which is something Rosy can do well. I wouldn't recommend ever attempting to land a spike, as he can always pause his recovery to throw out a very persistent up air, and anything to knock him outwards is almost as lethal as knocking him downwards. Rob is on a very finite clock whenever he's off the stage, and reading an overly desperate attempt to return ( going high, using back air to move quicker, etc ) can lead to some safe kills.

- Most of Rob's aerial options are slow, so pressuring him in his weaker areas is very useful. His back, neutral, and down air all have a very noticeable pause that can be punished on reaction. I'd argue that being extremely aggressive against Rob is vital to beating him, as it allows you to punish these slow startups before their superior disjoint has a chance to play a part.

Cons:
- Most Robs prefer killing off the top, something Rosalina is quite weak to. His down throw to up air is quite difficult to get out of at mid percents, and his up throw outright kills after the 100 mark, allowing Rob to have very guaranteed kills if the stocks ever stall out. In addition, his up smash is a very potent anti-air, and his most powerful smash attack.

- Actually getting in on Rob to deal damage can be a hassle. Rosalina, while having a projectile nullifying move, is also incredibly tall, and easy to hit with projectiles. Her average aerial move speed, and fairly slow fall speed make chasing down fleeing opponents more difficult than it would be for other characters ( I'd recommend banning the longer stages, such as Duck Hunt ).


Overall, I feel like this is a matchup where the Rosalina is required to play quite aggressively, as doing damage from Melee is her only real option ( Sending Luma out is laughably bad, and using GP exclusively is only stalling the game, letting Rob's laser build up strength ). Spacing is key, as many of his moves are very difficult to challenge, and much better responded to during the startup, or end lag. It feels like getting offstage gimps are essential as well, because Rob has very easy kill options once Rosalina gets higher in percent, giving him the edge if both players are in Rage percent. It's a matchup that requires the Rosalina to use every tool in her kit well in order to succeed, but given two players of equal skill, it is certainly in her favor.

I'm going to go with 60:40 for Rosalina. I don't think it's anything worse than that, although a case could be made for it being even more in Rosalina's favor.

 

[Ffamran]

Doesn't Falkoopa play as ROB? Anyway, I'm not sure about ROB's projectile game in this like what happened to Abadango's Pac-Man, but ROB has strong moves, so that might help him more. Granted, I'm not sure about Abadango's MU knowledge on Rosalina, so that might be a factor to throw in as well.

Don't list me as anything since I don't play as any of the characters, ROB, Rosalina, or Pac-Man, so I'm only giving out little things I noticed and know.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

We'll come back to Sheik at a later date. Sorry.

#Heartless

 

[FalKoopa]

Doesn't Falkoopa play as ROB? Anyway, I'm not sure about ROB's projectile game in this like what happened to Abadango's Pac-Man, but ROB has strong moves, so that might help him more. Granted, I'm not sure about Abadango's MU knowledge on Rosalina, so that might be a factor to throw in as well.

I can't say I have a lot of experience playing Rosalina. I can say that being aggressive is necessary here, as ROB is a zoning character.

Anyway, here goes:
- Gravitational Pull nullifies the gyro which is quite central to ROB's stage control.
- Except his F-air, pretty much all of ROB aerials are slow, which can be taken advantage of.
- ROBs like to recover low. Sending Luma over to the ledge can counter that.
- Luma Shot isn't of much use as an offensive move, as Arm Rotor will send it back.
- Beware his grabs. D-throw to U-air is a pretty consistent combo, but ROB's grab range is bit short.

 

[Claire Diviner]

R.O.B. is an interesting opponent. His aerials are not much of a threat and can be punished with an Usmash. His projectiles aren't an issue either, though the Robo Beam comes out pretty quick, so keep an eye out on that. As FalKoopa said, his grab game is a real pain, but Rosalina's ground range and Luma can help combat this. Overall, from my personal experiences (I don't know if I've faced a good enough R.O.B. online yet), I'd give this MU a 60:40 in favor of Rosalina.

 

[9Tales]

R.O.B. currently makes the top 3 list for characters I get super frustrated with facing. I'm... probably on board with just about everything said by Parcheesy

I'm really scared whenever I'm trying to land and ROB is below me, and I also have grown to really hate that damn robo arm rotor side B of his that forces you to shield for like 2 minutes while you watch Luma die.

uhhh....... 55:45

 

[mario123007]

I can't say I have a lot of experience playing Rosalina. I can say that being aggressive is necessary here, as ROB is a zoning character.

Anyway, here goes:
- Gravitational Pull nullifies the gyro which is quite central to ROB's stage control.
- Except his F-air, pretty much all of ROB aerials are slow, which can be taken advantage of.
- ROBs like to recover low. Sending Luma over to the ledge can counter that.
- Luma Shot isn't of much use as an offensive move, as Arm Rotor will send it back.
- Beware his grabs. D-throw to U-air is a pretty consistent combo, but ROB's grab range is bit short.

Yeah, I saw you use ROB before, ROB's projectiles are just annoying, but not a big harm to Rosalina.
A good ROB can do a ton of damge if successfully do a full combo to Rosalina, and ROBs U tilt and U air can KO Rosalina easily.
I say it's 45:55 , ROB has a minor advantage.

We'll come back to Sheik at a later date. Sorry.

We have to go back because of the further updates. Especially 3DS updates recently.

 

[KarToon]

haha, funnily enough, the ROB MU was the reason I created a Smashboards account!

Well from my take on the MU a while back, I had more trouble than usual getting onto the platform from above and returning from the sides against the robot. GP nullifies projectiles, but laser and top are fast! Furthermore, if you are just spamming GP, it gives him time to charge laser and store a fully charged top. Also, some ROBs will shoot a weak top and then pick it up away from you in order to have a fast projectile to throw upwards, downwards, z-drop, etc. Which can be used to gimp you and pressure you to GP at bad moments offstage.

My basic problem with the MU came from his Nair, Roboarms, and Down smash, which fling Luma everywhere. While they are fairly punishable, Luma tended to be dead or flung far away in the air. So if I wanted to follow up the punish, I had to do it Lumaless, and that puts ROB at an advantage with his powerful aerials.

Though I haven't played a good ROB in a long time, and I've gotten quite a bit better over the last month, so I'll call this match up 50:50 for now.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

Alright, is my chance to shine!

As a Rosalina and R.O.B. main, this is a matchup I know all about, SO LISTEN UP.

Rosalina has a very easy time juggling ROB due to his large hurtbox and weight. He also doesn't have anything to really challenge it, all he can do is air dodge and Robo burner away.

In fact, due to how large ROB is, it isn't incredibly hard to rack up damage on him.

Also, you can use Gravitational Pull on the item that defines his character, Gyro, which causes a multitude of problems for him.


Now, let's get into what makes the match-up difficult for Rosalina.

When I play as ROB, one of the first thing I notice in the Rosalina matchup is how incredibly easy it is to take out Luma.
The Following moves do this:
~Nair, Dash Attack, Light & Heavy Laser, Bair, all smash attacks, smash thrown gyro (at higher %), and side B.

As you can see, its extremely difficult for Luma to stay alive, and because of this, the matchup isn't incredibly hard.
Nair can wreck both Rosalina and Luma, and its one of ROB's most safe and common moves.

With added pressure, the Gravitational Pulling of Gyro is usually a trap, and a ROB usually will capitalize on a mis-spaced Grav.

Its also very easy for ROB to gimp and interrupt Rosalina's Launch Star, as he has many tools to make it hard (Fair, Dair, Gyro, Nair, Laser)

Considering all of these things I think the match up is

45:55 in ROB's Favor