Ronike's Test Subject Mafia: Game's Over: Town Wins! Nick pulls a Hando

[~ Gheb ~]

Agreed that Rockin can die. His lack of input D1 was frustrating and he'll probably continue to stay inactive (at least he announced something like that in the V/LA thread). This really sucks, because the two people I wanted to speak up the most are absent for a while. I won't vote for Rockin yet though because there's still time for him to speak up soon enough.

...

I think mentos is suspicous...tunnelvisioned @Nick for dumb reasons. Swords buddying with him wasn't his fault and the KK NK was probably mafia WIFOM and he seems to be like the only one who's really suspicious of nick atm.

btw swords' flip is why protective roles need to get lynched immediately after claiming.

So why did mentos unvote him right afterwards? Both Kevin and KK realized in no time that his claim was complete bull but mentos didn't?
FoS Mentos for that.
If Nick flips town or even indie mentos is like 75% scum IMO.

Kevin is pretty clear in my book. His vote on swords after his claim was an excellent move plus KK didn't unvote either and he's town.

Marshy, I want to know what you think about the nick/mentos thing because you don't seem to mind either of them. I also want Riddle, Tom and Junglefever to comment on who they consider scummy. Right now town is in an excellent position and we need as much input as possible.

 

[Riddle]

Agreed that Rockin can die. His lack of input D1 was frustrating and he'll probably continue to stay inactive (at least he announced something like that in the V/LA thread). This really sucks, because the two people I wanted to speak up the most are absent for a while. I won't vote for Rockin yet though because there's still time for him to speak up soon enough.

I understand your reluctance to vote since I usually feel the same way, bnut I am trying to change my playstyle and you should to. Putting votes on people who you think are scummy puts pressure on them which can obviously help (look at swords' lynch). 1 vote isn't the same as lynching someone and so you should really vote for who you think is scummy.

Swords budding of Nick wasn't Nick's fault but that doesn't mean it doesn't chane the fact that newb scum sometimes buddies to their scum partners. Swords was new and I think that he could very well have buddied Nick if Nick was his partner. The KK kill was most likely random I just wanted to see some responses (look at Omis' response to the McFox kill in FF maf) that could possibly incriminate people.

So why did mentos unvote him right afterwards? Both Kevin and KK realized in no time that his claim was complete bull but mentos didn't?
FoS Mentos for that.
If Nick flips town or even indie mentos is like 75% scum IMO.

I agree with you on that.

Kevin is pretty clear in my book. His vote on swords after his claim was an excellent move plus KK didn't unvote either and he's town.

Be careful of that, you shouldn't trust anybody in this game. While I agree that Kev is most likely town I am still going to be on the lookout for any scummy behavior. Kevin is a good player and he could be bussing for all we know.

Marshy, I want to know what you think about the nick/mentos thing because you don't seem to mind either of them. I also want Riddle, Tom and Junglefever to comment on who they consider scummy. Right now town is in an excellent position and we need as much input as possible.

I am currently suspicious of Rockin (for reasons I stated Day 1) and I think he has been wishy-washy enough to warrant a vote:

Vote: Rockin

I would advise you to do the same.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Riddle, to answer your first point: I never said that I find Rockin suspicious. I just don't think that it's a big loss for town due to what happened D1/N1. I will vote him if he doesn't speak up and we find nobody to be more worthy of a lynch. But right now I think mentos is more suspicious than him so I don't think it matters that much whether I vote Rockin or not.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

why aren't you voting rockin gheb?

As for the KK kill... well, I'm not really sure about that, but my guess would be that the mafia kill got blocked, and KK was the SK/vigilante kill. My other theory is that mafia killed off KK in order to frame me (being that I was one of his main suspects yesterday), so they could push my lynch through quickly and easily.

ugh. stuff like this really makes me want nick dead. there are so many posts of his that have me asking "dumb or scum?". why would you not just assume the simplest scenario?

Swords budding of Nick wasn't Nick's fault but that doesn't mean it doesn't chane the fact that newb scum sometimes buddies to their scum partners. Swords was new and I think that he could very well have buddied Nick if Nick was his partner. The KK kill was most likely random I just wanted to see some responses (look at Omis' response to the McFox kill in FF maf) that could possibly incriminate people.

don't talk about ongoing games. but i wanted to say this and agree that what gheb said of the buddying not being nick's fault was weird

mentos and nick? eh. i just reread mentos and agree that his unvoting swords was bad. i don't take much issue with what else he's said though. leaning town

nick can die. but rockin definitely takes priority over everybody

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Riddle, to answer your first point: I never said that I find Rockin suspicious. I just don't think that it's a big loss for town due to what happened D1/N1. I will vote him if he doesn't speak up and we find nobody to be more worthy of a lynch. But right now I think mentos is more suspicious than him so I don't think it matters that much whether I vote Rockin or not.

wow. how is that possible?

mentos: tunneled nick (which i'm just taking you at face value right now. i'll look for this when rereading)

rockin: plethora of scumbaggery, worthlessness, fence-sitting, nudging, and lurking that riddle and i have outlined

fos gheb. really need to elaborate on this

 

[~ Gheb ~]

wtf Marshy my point vs mentos is pretty clear. Grilling Nick since D1 when swords was the play in reality + only one unvoting scum when everybody saw that his claim was OBVIOUSLY fake isn't more suspicous than inactivity?

Besides, I already agreed that Rockin can die but I first want to hear what mentos has to say about his unvote and his tunnelvision.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

you're diminishing the rockin case pretty hard here

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Also going after nick because of KK NK is really simple-minded. Mentos, do you seriously believe that nick would NK KK (even if he has no scumbuddy)? Him getting attention because of KK voting him D1 was way too likely to happen for him to do that. There are 2 scenarios:
2 scumbags alive means that nicks buddy probably would've prevented a KK kill.
Only nick alive means waaaaaaaay too much risk for nick to put himself into the spotlight like that.

Even if it's WIFOM it's unrealistic for mafia to act like that because the risk/reward ratio is soooooooo much more in risks favour...scum couldn't even afford that at this point.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ninja'd by marshy.

No I'm not. I think it would be better for the cop to investigate Rockin instead of us lynching him now because Rockins flip will give us little info IMO. If Rockin flips town we know just as much as before. If the cop can confirm him being innocent we have a bigger advantage than that.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Forgot to mention: the reason I think we should have the cop take care of Rockin is because while he's not good for town right now it's not untypical for him to lurk/coast/write mostly fluff D1.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

no. just lynch rockin. he'll be a burden. i was doubting swords d1 because he was new but i'm convinced that we just should get rid of every potential VI who gets in the way which is mentos nick and rockin right now

your mentos suspicion isn't as unjustified as i thought. i still prefer to lynch the scummiest player which is rockin in this case and will push for his lynch until he dies. really needs to die like now. if there's a vig act

but unfos gheb

 

[Nicholas1024]

Wow. A lot of stuff happens over the course of 3-4 hours...

First of all, I think Marshy has built a solid case against Rockin. He hasn't really contributed despite posting fairly frequently, so...

Vote Rockin

On the other hand, Gheb also has some interesting points against Mentos. Although it's quite possible that Mentos was merely reacting to the kill, he could also be scum trying to push my lynch. However, I don't think he was being particularly tunnel-visioned, as no other D2 discussion had been raised yet. At any rate, I agree with Marshy that Rockin takes priority.

ugh. stuff like this really makes me want nick dead. there are so many posts of his that have me asking "dumb or scum?". why would you not just assume the simplest scenario?

I prefer not to assume anything. If your assumption happens to be wrong, you could really be setting yourself up for a disaster. Yes, KK being the mafia kill in an attempt to frame me is the likeliest scenario... but it isn't the only one. It doesn't hurt to keep them in mind.

No I'm not. I think it would be better for the cop to investigate Rockin instead of us lynching him now because Rockins flip will give us little info IMO. If Rockin flips town we know just as much as before. If the cop can confirm him being innocent we have a bigger advantage than that.

You do realize that mafia godfather is a role in most mafia games? If they're suspicious, lynch them. Don't waste a day for the cop to make an investigation which might be wrong anyway.

 

[Riddle]

Wow. A lot of stuff happens over the course of 3-4 hours...

First of all, I think Marshy has built a solid case against Rockin. He hasn't really contributed despite posting fairly frequently, so...

Vote Rockin

On the other hand, Gheb also has some interesting points against Mentos. Although it's quite possible that Mentos was merely reacting to the kill, he could also be scum trying to push my lynch. However, I don't think he was being particularly tunnel-visioned, as no other D2 discussion had been raised yet. At any rate, I agree with Marshy that Rockin takes priority.

I dislike your wishy-washy opinions here. You jsut seem to be agreeing with everyone without adressing the suspicions cast on you at all.

Give me some credit for the Rockins case :-P.

I prefer not to assume anything. If your assumption happens to be wrong, you could really be setting yourself up for a disaster. Yes, KK being the mafia kill in an attempt to frame me is the likeliest scenario... but it isn't the only one. It doesn't hurt to keep them in mind.

More wishy-washy generalizations. One of the alternatives is that you killed KK...do you agree with that?

You do realize that mafia godfather is a role in most mafia games? If they're suspicious, lynch them. Don't waste a day for the cop to make an investigation which might be wrong anyway.

As there are multiple lynch targets, lynching one and having the cop investigate the other one is actually a good strategy.


FoS: Nick

 

[mentosman8]

I think mentos is suspicous...tunnelvisioned @Nick for dumb reasons. Swords buddying with him wasn't his fault and the KK NK was probably mafia WIFOM and he seems to be like the only one who's really suspicious of nick atm.



So why did mentos unvote him right afterwards? Both Kevin and KK realized in no time that his claim was complete bull but mentos didn't?
FoS Mentos for that.
If Nick flips town or even indie mentos is like 75% scum IMO.

Kevin is pretty clear in my book. His vote on swords after his claim was an excellent move plus KK didn't unvote either and he's town.

Marshy, I want to know what you think about the nick/mentos thing because you don't seem to mind either of them. I also want Riddle, Tom and Junglefever to comment on who they consider scummy. Right now town is in an excellent position and we need as much input as possible.

First of all, tunnelvisioned? I didn't even push anything on Nick until today, and it's been about a day since D2 started, it's not like I've spent the whole day on him. Secondly, the reasons I have for grilling him today are very legitimate points. Just because Nick couldn't control Swords' buddying, that doesn't mean it means nothing. Mafia is a game of connections, when a blatant one like that is formed it needs to be looked at. Not to mention he was scummy enough to attract the attention of several townies D1, and I've mentioned other reasons for voting him.

As for your comment about me unvoting, seriously? You think I would be the second vote on my scum partner, grill him all day, then unvote because of his claim? Yes, I unvoted, because a BG claim is enough to make me think twice before going through with the lynch. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to get back on during the remainder of that day, as I would have definitely re-voted him after his name claim. Is it really scummy for me to take another look over a claimed protecting PR? Or are you just trying to paint it as scummy since KK and Kevin didn't believe it? Also, you realize that KK didn't believe it because it "came out of no where" which makes absolutely no sense. Nice try, but no dice there.

wtf Marshy my point vs mentos is pretty clear. Grilling Nick since D1 when swords was the play in reality + only one unvoting scum when everybody saw that his claim was OBVIOUSLY fake isn't more suspicous than inactivity?

Besides, I already agreed that Rockin can die but I first want to hear what mentos has to say about his unvote and his tunnelvision.

Once again you make it sound like I've been pushing Nick since D1. I just looked back at my posts, and I had a grand total of one post focused on Nick. The vast majority, in fact, were grilling Swords, and the only reason Nick came up was because of the buddying. Once again, nice try, but stop putting words in my mouth.

Also going after nick because of KK NK is really simple-minded. Mentos, do you seriously believe that nick would NK KK (even if he has no scumbuddy)? Him getting attention because of KK voting him D1 was way too likely to happen for him to do that. There are 2 scenarios:
2 scumbags alive means that nicks buddy probably would've prevented a KK kill.
Only nick alive means waaaaaaaay too much risk for nick to put himself into the spotlight like that.

Even if it's WIFOM it's unrealistic for mafia to act like that because the risk/reward ratio is soooooooo much more in risks favour...scum couldn't even afford that at this point.

First of all, that's NOT the whole reason I'm going after him. Once again you twist what I've said to work with your suspicions. And yes, I do believe Nick would kill KK. You're so focused on how it's WIFOM, you forget that things need to be paid attention to regardless. What if Nick is scum, and killed KK so people like you would say "oh he wouldn't kill KK, that's just stupid." Also, I had other reasons to suspect him, as I said in the post I first mentioned that, that was just fuel to the fire. Alone, it wouldn't mean anything to me. Couple it with the suspicion I have on him, and suddenly it takes on meaning and gives me something else to consider.

Now Gheb, you call me tunnelvisioned, yet you have twisted my words today to fit with your suspicion of me. I don't so much get scum vibes from you yet, but trust me when I say that if you keep making it out like people did and/or said things they didn't, it most certainly is going to get me going after you.

 

[KevinM]

I'd like to point out Rockin can't defend himself like all week.

 

[Rockin]

I'd like to point out Rockin can't defend himself like all week.

Nah, I can try and defend myself just fine. I'll just have a bit less posts

So like, I come back and see I already have 3 votes on me. T'was pretty quick there >>

Marshy - It seems your main jive with me is that you seem to think I'm pretty useless, when I think opposently. I know I havn't commented much on D1. Again, I didn't really had a read on anyone. However, I disliked a bit of Nick's post in D1 and I found swords to be a bit scummy (due to what's been pointed out to him). Also, that part where I was suppose to post something...I think I honestly gotten lazy and forgot what I was exactly gonna post about, so sorry about that XD. I don't feel I'm a VI, but I also know I havn't been voiceful either. Hopefully, D2 can change that.

Gheb - I know I've been a bit inactive(well, I wasn't really inactive. Just kept mostly quiet), so sorry about that. Even though I'm at Anime Festival, I'm still going to try and keep up with the thread as well as defend myself. I'll just be posting at night time. Oh, also

- Marshy and Rockin have been sort of inactive D1. I want to hear more from you guys, especially Marshy since most of his posts were pushing towards a ff lynch (something I wouldn't mind but I want to hear more from you on the swords/nick thing and also KKs death). Rockin seems to be lurking a lot as usualy but I feel like he should speak up as well. This is a good situation for town right now and the more info we get from you guys the better are the chances for town to win

Agreed that Rockin can die.

err...wtf?

Riddle: Your issue with me follows in two seperate peices from both Marshy and Gheb, so please read those and understand I'll be a bit more voiceful.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Mentos, I still disagree with you about nick but at least now I can see where you're coming from. I guess you do have a point ... we probably just have different opinions on this issue. I don't consider nick cleared anyway JFYI and I wouldn't mind him lynched for the reasons marshy posted. He's a VI, his posts are awful and IMO his flip will give us more info than any other so me voting for him isn't out of the question (plus I already said that a mislynch wouldn't hurt us that badly). What I disagree with are your reasons for going after nick but I have to admit that the "tunnelvisioned" accusation was an exaggeration. I'm probably just looking too hard...

Rockin, you have quoted a post of mine where I directly asked you to speak up and tell us your opinion and you still don't do it. Instead you just posted "errr...wtf?". This is EXACTLY why I think you can die: You don't contribute ANYTHING even if you're directly asked to do so.

Vote Rockin

Not gonna unvote you until you tell us who your main suspects are and why, what you think of a nick lynch and the mentos/nick thing. You're just a burden unless you answer these question.

Want to hear more from Tom and Junglever too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Oh, and one more thing @ mentos.

Assuming nick flips town, how you gonna justify your behaviour? As far as I can see your reasons for wanting him dead are different than mine or marshy's. Just want to know about that because if he flips town you might be in trouble. If he didn't do so N1 Cop should def. investigate nick if we don't lynch him today...currently Rockin bothers me more though. That guy just plain hurts town.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Wow. A lot of stuff happens over the course of 3-4 hours...

First of all, I think Marshy has built a solid case against Rockin. He hasn't really contributed despite posting fairly frequently, so...

Vote Rockin

On the other hand, Gheb also has some interesting points against Mentos. Although it's quite possible that Mentos was merely reacting to the kill, he could also be scum trying to push my lynch. However, I don't think he was being particularly tunnel-visioned, as no other D2 discussion had been raised yet. At any rate, I agree with Marshy that Rockin takes priority.



I prefer not to assume anything. If your assumption happens to be wrong, you could really be setting yourself up for a disaster. Yes, KK being the mafia kill in an attempt to frame me is the likeliest scenario... but it isn't the only one. It doesn't hurt to keep them in mind.



You do realize that mafia godfather is a role in most mafia games? If they're suspicious, lynch them. Don't waste a day for the cop to make an investigation which might be wrong anyway.

I dislike your wishy-washy opinions here. You jsut seem to be agreeing with everyone without adressing the suspicions cast on you at all.

Give me some credit for the Rockins case :-P.



More wishy-washy generalizations. One of the alternatives is that you killed KK...do you agree with that?



As there are multiple lynch targets, lynching one and having the cop investigate the other one is actually a good strategy.


FoS: Nick

You do realize that the main points against me are:

1) The KK kill
2) Swords buddying me

Both of which are out of my control. How do you want me to defend that? I've already given my theory as to the KK kill, and it's not under my control whether someone decides to buddy me or not.

As for my above post being "wishy-washy" and agreeing with everyone...

While I did agree with Marshy's case against rockin and part of Gheb's case against Mentos, I disagreed with Gheb's idea that mentos was being tunnelvisioned. I also raised a couple of other points from previous posts that I also disagreed with.

Yeah, perhaps, and one of the possibilities is that you did it. Throwing around accusations like that won't get us anywhere.

Agreed as to your last point.

 

[mentosman8]

@gheb I'm at work right now so I don't have time to post a lot, but if nick were lynched today and flipped town, I would do what I always do and continue to look. Also, my reasons for wanting nick lynched aren't entirely different than yours and marshy's, there's just more added to it. I was suspicious of nick a bit yesterday, and the things I have mentioned today merely added to it. Especially with nick being a newer player, it does affect my perspective a bit. Regardless, expect more from me after work

 

[mentosman8]

Ok, so a couple thoughts I didn't have time to post last time.

About Rockin: Right now, I don't find him that suspicious. Is he helping the town? Not a whole lot yet. However, what I saw from Rockin D1 is about the same as what I've seen of him on D1 as town in past games. We'll see what happens, but right now I'm not willing to consider someone I don't find suspicious merely because they aren't a huge help.

@Tom: Very strange feeling coming from him. I haven't seen him pushing very much, or even really voicing many suspicions. Usually, even if he doesn't post often, he always brings something up and points fingers, yet this game his posts have been lacking his normal aggressiveness. Still not sure what to think about this.

@Gheb: One thing I don't like is that you keep saying if we lynched Nick and he flipped town, I would be a major target tomorrow. Do you realize we would almost never lynch maf if we lynched because someone had reasonable suspicions on another player and they flipped town? Even if you disagree with me on him, there was reason to suspect him D1(which several people did until Swords and KK took the spotlight), and the reasons I gave today are substantial because of those earlier reasons.

Everyone else I don't have any solid thoughts on right now. Marshy and Kevin are being same as usual, so I have no idea where they stand. We'll see where things go.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I agree with Mentos about Tom. I know he's been V/LA and is trying to get Evo off the ground, but he is still normally one of the more active players in a game. The only time I've seen where he isn't all that active, he was the mafia godfather.

 

[Tom]

on phone

i posted TWO days ago

i spoke people TODAY saying i was out of town and not at my desktop, for various reasons. this list includes junglefever.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb: One thing I don't like is that you keep saying if we lynched Nick and he flipped town, I would be a major target tomorrow. Do you realize we would almost never lynch maf if we lynched because someone had reasonable suspicions on another player and they flipped town? Even if you disagree with me on him, there was reason to suspect him D1(which several people did until Swords and KK took the spotlight), and the reasons I gave today are substantial because of those earlier reasons.

Nevermind that. Your last few posts convinced me that your suspicions against nick were justified for the most part and since you, marshy and me all agree that a nick lynch would help town this whole point loses its relevance now.

Also, I don't like this point of nick:

"You do realize that mafia godfather is a role in most mafia games? If they're suspicious, lynch them. Don't waste a day for the cop to make an investigation which might be wrong anyway."

Discouraging the cop to confirm suspicions is bull. Sometimes there are more than 1 ppl worth being lynched a day, having a cop helping out is EXACTLY what town needs when you're 50/50 between two people.

FoS Nick for that stupid comment.

@Tom: Very strange feeling coming from him. I haven't seen him pushing very much, or even really voicing many suspicions. Usually, even if he doesn't post often, he always brings something up and points fingers, yet this game his posts have been lacking his normal aggressiveness. Still not sure what to think about this.

100% agreed. I feel the same way about junglefever actually. Why become inactive now? Junglefever has been fairly active D1 no need for him to start coasting now that things look so good for town. D1/N1 brought fine results and we have a lot of info to work with...not liking the fact that some peope seem to be trying to avoid discussion. Plus Jungle has been active in FFVII Mafia in the meantime.

Tom, Rockin, Jungle need to speak up. If Rockin posts his thoughts and seems convincing/not scummy I'm def. down for a nick wagon.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ninja'd by Tom and Jungle lmao

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I know, Tom. That's why I even stated that you were V/LA. My point still stands however, because you haven't been gone during this whole game.

 

[mentosman8]

Haha yeah, I know you're V/LA Tom, it's not so much entirely the inactivity that was my main point, moreso, and Kevin said this earlier(on D1), you have for large portions seemed to be at a loss/without direction, which I have never seen from you before. The fact that you are less active as a whole also stands out, but so am I and I know RL can get in the way of posting, so it's not as big a thing as the fact that you don't seem to have a clear and present direction like usual. It just seems weird coming from you who normally constantly gives town a sense of direction.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin, you have quoted a post of mine where I directly asked you to speak up and tell us your opinion and you still don't do it. Instead you just posted "errr...wtf?". This is EXACTLY why I think you can die: You don't contribute ANYTHING even if you're directly asked to do so.

First of all, that bolded part. I want to say that it's NOT true at all. I DO tell my opinion of something even when directly asked. I'm going to explain soon why I didn't really 'post an opinion.'

Second, I thought those two quotes I did showed pretty much what I meant, but I guess I'm gonna have to be direct.

- Marshy and Rockin have been sort of inactive D1. I want to hear more from you guys, especially Marshy since most of his posts were pushing towards a ff lynch (something I wouldn't mind but I want to hear more from you on the swords/nick thing and also KKs death). Rockin seems to be lurking a lot as usualy but I feel like he should speak up as well. This is a good situation for town right now and the more info we get from you guys the better are the chances for town to win

You explain in this post that you basically wanted me to speak up. Tell my opinion on the matter. Mainly, just be active and helpful (small note: you made a small note about Marshy just mostly pushing and less of his helpful opinion on other matters. Or at least, that's how I'm reading it).

Agreed that Rockin can die. His lack of input D1 was frustrating and he'll probably continue to stay inactive (at least he announced something like that in the V/LA thread). This really sucks, because the two people I wanted to speak up the most are absent for a while. I won't vote for Rockin yet though because there's still time for him to speak up soon enough.

That bolded part. About 8 posts, you went totally against me and quickly agreed that I needed to die. Keep in mind I never posted between these two posts of yours. So, not only this avoids me of telling my opinion on the matter and go defense mode, I begin to wonder 'why the sudden change of heart?' You said you wanted me to commit more in the topic as well as help out town, but you quickly want me dead.

Granted, I got three votes on me before. Now it's four

At that point, my last post is really just me noting the reason why several wants to vote for me. It just seems like, especially from Gheb's last post concerning to me, it wouldn't matter what my alignment is. Whether I'm actually town or not, you want to get rid of me. It's very bad logic, cause you're more concern about building a better town then just using all of what you have and doing scum hunting.

Really, I rather defend myself and try to prove my innocence then just tell my opinion on the matter, cause it'll basically just mean I'm diverting the attention away from me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Really, I rather defend myself and try to prove my innocence then just tell my opinion on the matter, cause it'll basically just mean I'm diverting the attention away from me.

So you say you only speak up when you're about to die regardless of the situation and your own personal success is more important than town winning?

Exactly why town needs you to be dead.

If there's a vig. out there shoot nick please this really makes me wish we could lynch more than 1 person.

 

[Riddle]

So you say you only speak up when you're about to die regardless of the situation and your own personal success is more important than town winning?

Exactly why town needs you to be dead.

If there's a vig. out there shoot nick please this really makes me wish we could lynch more than 1 person.

Trying to control power-roles makes me suspicious of you. You seem to feel that you control the whole town and that is simply not true.

Most of your points here are simply wrong.

Of course people speak up when they are about to die, but that does not mean that they are scum. Town greatly benefits from not mislynching and so town tries to not get lynched (shocker there). Of course town wants to defend themselves as getting themselves lynched NEVER benefits town. You seem to buy into Kevin's philosophy that bad townies are a good lynch when that is simply not true. Lynch people because they are scummy not unhelpful. Feel free to pressure peeple that are unhelpful, but at the end of the day we should lynch the scummiest player.

Town does not need Rockin dead. town needs scum dead and you don't even seem to believe that Rockin is scum, just unhelpful town. I still don't know if Rockin is scum or not, but it is good to see him post some more.

DO NOT TRY TO CONTROL POWER ROLES UNLESS YOU ARE A CLEARED TOWNIE. Power roles shouldn't ever listen to unclears as this is a very awful way to choose your night actions since plenty of the time it is scum directing you.

Unvote, Vote: Gheb_01

for that stupid post and becaue Rockin is actually contributing now.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rockin isn't contributing AT ALL. I asked him questions right after D2 started but he didn't answer them. Instead he said "he'd rather prove his innosence when it matters than posting my opinion" although he even quoted the post where I asked him about his opinions. Speaking up when you're about to die is obviously OK but that not what bothers me (and I CLEARLY said so) it's the fact that Rockin refuses to post his opinion despite the fact that right now we have A LOT to work with.

Even if he's asked to do so he doesn't state what he thinks, which is scummy. My vote on him is more than justified because just now he confirmed what Marshy accused him for.

Also, the "controling PR roles" argument is crap because it's pretty obvious that we're better of with nick dead. Mentos, Marshy and me all pointed out why a couple of times. Also his comment on why town shouldn't trust the cop because of the possibility of a GF is awful and anti-town and he hasn't done anything to show why we should keep him alive.
If Rockin is lynched then vig SHOULD shoot nick or vice versa. I don't see how anybody can say that there's anything wrong with that. Both need to die unless Rockin tells us what he thinks about the current situation but since he refused to do so I don't see what good will either of them do

 

[Nicholas1024]

Rockin isn't contributing AT ALL. I asked him questions right after D2 started but he didn't answer them. Instead he said "he'd rather prove his innosence when it matters than posting my opinion" although he even quoted the post where I asked him about his opinions. Speaking up when you're about to die is obviously OK but that not what bothers me (and I CLEARLY said so) it's the fact that Rockin refuses to post his opinion despite the fact that right now we have A LOT to work with.

Even if he's asked to do so he doesn't state what he thinks, which is scummy. My vote on him is more than justified because just now he confirmed what Marshy accused him for.

Also, the "controling PR roles" argument is crap because it's pretty obvious that we're better of with nick dead. Mentos, Marshy and me all pointed out why a couple of times. Also his comment on why town shouldn't trust the cop because of the possibility of a GF is awful and anti-town and he hasn't done anything to show why we should keep him alive.
If Rockin is lynched then vig SHOULD shoot nick or vice versa. I don't see how anybody can say that there's anything wrong with that. Both need to die unless Rockin tells us what he thinks about the current situation but since he refused to do so I don't see what good will either of them do

Seriously Gheb, quit trying to control every PR in the town. For all you know, the vig might not agree with you that I should die. You and marshy pointed out why town is better off with me dead? How? By quoting something you disagree with and going "That's it, nick can die."? I also dislike how you're twisting my words here. I never said we shouldn't distrust the cop just because of the possibility of a godfather. My point is, don't change the lynch target because we might gain more from one player getting cleared than the others, especially since there's a possibility that the cop investigation might be wrong.


By the way, where on earth did frozen go? I would definitely like to hear his opinion.

 

[Riddle]

Rockin isn't contributing AT ALL. I asked him questions right after D2 started but he didn't answer them. Instead he said "he'd rather prove his innosence when it matters than posting my opinion" although he even quoted the post where I asked him about his opinions. Speaking up when you're about to die is obviously OK but that not what bothers me (and I CLEARLY said so) it's the fact that Rockin refuses to post his opinion despite the fact that right now we have A LOT to work with.

Pointing out people as scummy and making cases against others while being bandwagoned is considered very scummy and can often result in getting yourself lynched. I do not blame Rockin for not doing anything but defend himself while he is getting wagoned. I do not disagree that Rockin is scummy and unhelpful, however he has been busy and now he is getting heavily pressured so can't really point fingers.

Even if he's asked to do so he doesn't state what he thinks, which is scummy. My vote on him is more than justified because just now he confirmed what Marshy accused him for.

I agree that Rockin is scummy. I made the original case against him on day 1 in fact. I was the first one (except maybe Tom) to think of him as scummy and you and Marshy both had similar reasoning to me. However, I got the vibe from your post that you think he is just unhelpful town, but unhelpful town should not be lynched.

Also, the "controling PR roles" argument is crap because it's pretty obvious that we're better of with nick dead. Mentos, Marshy and me all pointed out why a couple of times. Also his comment on why town shouldn't trust the cop because of the possibility of a GF is awful and anti-town and he hasn't done anything to show why we should keep him alive.

While I agree with his "don't turst the cop" argument is awful, so was your last post in all honesty. I would be happy if the vig shot you but since I could in fact be scum the vig shouldn't trust me. He should go with his own intuition and shoot who he thinks is scummy not just who a couple of people who might be scum think.

VIG IF YOU ARE READING THIS SHOOT WHO YOU THINK IS SCUMMY!

If Rockin is lynched then vig SHOULD shoot nick or vice versa. I don't see how anybody can say that there's anything wrong with that. Both need to die unless Rockin tells us what he thinks about the current situation but since he refused to do so I don't see what good will either of them do

I personally disagree with the fact that vig SHOULD shoot nick. I find you much more scummy than nick. First you tell mentos to stop tunneling on Nick and then you realize that other people find Nick scummy so you jump on that bandwagon too. I find it very convenient that you happen to find people scummy right after some other people fine those people scummy.

In response to the bold:
There it is again! You seem to think Rockin and Nick need to be lynched because they are unhelpful. This is not the case! The only good reason for town to lynch someone is because they are scummy.

You speak like you think everyone agrees with you and you think you can jsut contol the game. I will not let you control the game. If a majority of players say they want the vig to shoot nick and that they want to lynch Rockin because he seems scummy then I will be fine. However, this is not the case. There are only 3 votes on Rockin and I would prefer it if we were to lynch you.

Have a nice day!

 

[Riddle]

somewhat ninja'd by nick.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Seriously Gheb, quit trying to control every PR in the town.

Seriously, you need to die asap. Posts like this are blatant proof. Not only do you pick somebody else's argument but you also blow it out of proportion in a ridiculous manner? I'm trying to control EVERY PR? Sorry, but if you are unable to argue a case with your own head then at least try to be convincing. Lying like that doesn't make it better for you.

For all you know, the vig might not agree with you that I should die.

This is not a question about what's right or wrong it's a question about what's best for town. If you're not getting lynched today then the vig SHOULD kill you.

You and marshy pointed out why town is better off with me dead? How? By quoting something you disagree with and going "That's it, nick can die."?

It's not about disagreeing. You can disagree with somebody without being suspicious like back @ D1 when you argued with Tom about BWs. Nothing wrong with that.

Problem is, your posts are blatant anti-town. Stupid suggestions about cop's behaviour (even if I got it a bit wrong), wishy-washy posts but always using other people's opinions whenever you're under pressure is nothing but nonsense. You post a lot but there's nothing of content except misleading stuff that is BAD FOR TOWN.

I also dislike how you're twisting my words here. I never said we shouldn't distrust the cop just because of the possibility of a godfather. My point is, don't change the lynch target because we might gain more from one player getting cleared than the others, especially since there's a possibility that the cop investigation might be wrong.

I didn't change my lynch target for whatever you say? I FoS'd mentos but I was admittedly wrong in his case and then I kept my vote @ Rockin. Only reason I'm not voting for you now btw. But if there's no way that Rockin will be lynched for whatever reason I won't hesitate to vote you.

Pointing out people as scummy and making cases against others while being bandwagoned is considered very scummy and can often result in getting yourself lynched. I do not blame Rockin for not doing anything but defend himself while he is getting wagoned. I do not disagree that Rockin is scummy and unhelpful, however he has been busy and now he is getting heavily pressured so can't really point fingers.

I asked those questions before that BW even started. The only reason there's a BW vs him is BECAUSE he doesn't do anything except defending himself. Otherwise my vote wouldn't be on him in the first place. If he was town he'd have nothing to hide.

but unhelpful town should not be lynched.

In response to the bold:
There it is again! You seem to think Rockin and Nick need to be lynched because they are unhelpful. This is not the case!

But this is only your opinion and I HIGHLY disagree with that. You need to think about what happens in the long run and you need to think FOR THE SAKE OF TOWN, NOT INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. Scum will ALWAYS NK a strong player. The weak players don't disappear all by themselves. Town can't afford to have weaklings among them later in the game when EVERY SINGLE VOTE is of major importance.

I'd rather get rid of them now when we we're in the rare position of being able to AFFORD a mislynch than to worry about this nonsense later when the whole game is on the line.

First you tell mentos to stop tunneling on Nick and then you realize that other people find Nick scummy so you jump on that bandwagon too. I find it very convenient that you happen to find people scummy right after some other people fine those people scummy.

False.

I already said to keep a sharp eye on nick at the very beginning of D1, which was BEFORE THE KK AND SWORDS BW. Also, if I ever said that I don't find nick scummy I was being stupid because I had him on my radar since early D1 aka he was on my radar since the VERY BEGINNING. It's not like I'm suddenly joining a BW, it's more like the things I didn't like about nick are starting to confirm themselves right about now and his recent posts don't help his case.

The mentos thing is a whole different issue, that has nothing to do with it. I didn't dislike the fact that mentos voted nick but his REASONS. His last few posts on this issue however convinced me and as I stated before I think his reasons to vote nick are justified.

You speak like you think everyone agrees with you and you think you can jsut contol the game. I will not let you control the game.

Honestly, I'm glad to read that. Opposition creates discussion, which will lead to results sooner or later. As long as you don't post scummy stuff then you're free to disagree with me.

If a majority of players say they want the vig to shoot nick and that they want to lynch Rockin because he seems scummy then I will be fine. However, this is not the case. There are only 3 votes on Rockin and I would prefer it if we were to lynch you.

I though there were 4 votes on Rockin? Either way, despite what you say, the majority of the votes IS on Rockin right now and 3 people agree that Nick needs to die as well (which is only -1 vote of the top lynch candidate).

Also, I'm aware that the vig. will act by his own judgement so asking for a majority is just as good as using common sense, when 3 people (and two of them - marshy and mentos - are traditionally strong players) agree that nick needs to die. Kevin also was about to vote for nick before swords' BS claim so I don't see how you can say that the majority does NOT want him dead.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

The idea that scum will always kill a strong player is sort of a heavy one to make. Plus, most people here in this game are strong players in their own right. There are other reasons for mafia to kill someone other than being a strong player.

I agree that scum will try to leave the weakest team they can for endgame, but they can do that by killing off who they think are potential PR's or even a weak player thats having thoughts taht could hurt their chances.

 

[Tom]

Haha I just fully caught up. Still on phone, but Jesus Christ I disagree with almost everything that I have seen on Day 2. Why the **** are people attacking Nicholas LOL. Marshy called Mentosman a village idiot? LOL. I'll probably post a **** ton tonight but WTF are Gheb and Rockin and Riddle even talkng about. Junglefever telling someone to be involved in discussion LOL.

Some people are hyperclear for me, and some others seem townie/worth. I will dissect tonight and choose 1-2 people that I think are scum and I'll grill some burgers.

 

[Riddle]

Seriously, you need to die asap. Posts like this are blatant proof. Not only do you pick somebody else's argument but you also blow it out of proportion in a ridiculous manner? I'm trying to control EVERY PR? Sorry, but if you are unable to argue a case with your own head then at least try to be convincing. Lying like that doesn't make it better for you.

To be fair you have also suggested to the cop who he should investigate. He is trying to use my arguments as his own though and I really don't like that.

uestion about what's right or wrong it's a question about what's best for town. If you're not getting lynched today then the vig SHOULD kill you.

It is up to the vig who he kills. If he wants to kill Nick than that is fine. If he wants to kill you or me I'm fine with that to. It is ultimately the vig's power to use as he sees fit.

It's not about disagreeing. You can disagree with somebody without being suspicious like back @ D1 when you argued with Tom about BWs. Nothing wrong with that.

Problem is, your posts are blatant anti-town. Stupid suggestions about cop's behaviour (even if I got it a bit wrong), wishy-washy posts but always using other people's opinions whenever you're under pressure is nothing but nonsense. You post a lot but there's nothing of content except misleading stuff that is BAD FOR TOWN.

If by anti-town you mean scummy than I am fine. If by anti-town you mean a weak townie, well I'll adress that a little later in my response...

I didn't change my lynch target for whatever you say? I FoS'd mentos but I was admittedly wrong in his case and then I kept my vote @ Rockin. Only reason I'm not voting for you now btw. But if there's no way that Rockin will be lynched for whatever reason I won't hesitate to vote you.

Whatever.

I asked those questions before that BW even started. The only reason there's a BW vs him is BECAUSE he doesn't do anything except defending himself. Otherwise my vote wouldn't be on him in the first place. If he was town he'd have nothing to hide.

There are any number of reasons for not being able to post. Very few of these reasons indicate scum. However, I agree that if someone is posting and active and get's asked questions they should answer them.

But this is only your opinion and I HIGHLY disagree with that. You need to think about what happens in the long run and you need to think FOR THE SAKE OF TOWN, NOT INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS. Scum will ALWAYS NK a strong player. The weak players don't disappear all by themselves. Town can't afford to have weaklings among them later in the game when EVERY SINGLE VOTE is of major importance.

There is a lot of things that I fundementally disagree with in this paragraph. First of all scum in no way always kills a strong player. Scum always kills to make the game easier for themselves. In newbie maf Pierre and I were killed N1 and N2. We were both playing our first game, but scum killed us, because we seemed like power roles and because we were on to one of the mafia members (SkylerOcon). Sometimes scum kills the strongest players becaue it helps their cause, but the underlying reason for all (or almost all) scum NK's is to help them win. Another point of disagreeement is that you seem to think lynching weak players is better than lynching scum. The only way weaker players are going to get better is playing more anyways. I would rather give newer players a chacne and attempt to lynch scum. I agree that weaker players are less of an asset to town, but they are still infinitely more helpful than scum in many instances. Your opinions are highly contradictory anyways. If we lynch a weak townie and scum NK's a strong townie, than the next day we are left with the same average town strength but two less townies. You basically gain nothing at all. However a scum lynch helps for obvious reasons. Since lynching scum is the objective of the game for town.

Lynching scum is infinitely more helpful than lynching weak townies. I am more able to accept the philosophy of having the vig shoot weak townies though.

I'd rather get rid of them now when we we're in the rare position of being able to AFFORD a mislynch than to worry about this nonsense later when the whole game is on the line.

I'd much rather take advantage of our mislynches to get multiple chances at lynching scum.

False.

I already said to keep a sharp eye on nick at the very beginning of D1, which was BEFORE THE KK AND SWORDS BW. Also, if I ever said that I don't find nick scummy I was being stupid because I had him on my radar since early D1 aka he was on my radar since the VERY BEGINNING. It's not like I'm suddenly joining a BW, it's more like the things I didn't like about nick are starting to confirm themselves right about now and his recent posts don't help his case.

The mentos thing is a whole different issue, that has nothing to do with it. I didn't dislike the fact that mentos voted nick but his REASONS. His last few posts on this issue however convinced me and as I stated before I think his reasons to vote nick are justified.

Ignore that point, I re-read and you are absolutely right.

Honestly, I'm glad to read that. Opposition creates discussion, which will lead to results sooner or later. As long as you don't post scummy stuff then you're free to disagree with me.

Glad that you agree.

I though there were 4 votes on Rockin? Either way, despite what you say, the majority of the votes IS on Rockin right now and 3 people agree that Nick needs to die as well (which is only -1 vote of the top lynch candidate).

I unvoted Rockin when I voted you. I was the fourth but currently I find you more scummy than him. The majority of the votes may be on Rockin but not the majority of the people in the game. Everybody who says that they want Nick dead could be scum and indy for all I know.

Also, I'm aware that the vig. will act by his own judgement so asking for a majority is just as good as using common sense, when 3 people (and two of them - marshy and mentos - are traditionally strong players) agree that nick needs to die. Kevin also was about to vote for nick before swords' BS claim so I don't see how you can say that the majority does NOT want him dead.

Just becaue players are good does not mean that they are not scum. There is no correlation between skill and allignment obviously. Do you consider me a good player? A number of the other DGamers do, however I am against the vig shooting Nick. Does that mean the vig shouldn't? No, of course not. If he finds Nick scummy than he should feel free to shoot him.

There are ten people in the game right now. Three of them have said that they want Nick dead (4 if you count Kevin). How is this the majority? Do you know what a majority is? A majority is more than half. And the 6/7 people who haven't said they want Nick dead are in the majority in this case.

My Scum tier list:

Higher than Top
Handorin

Top

Gheb_01
Rockin
Nick

High

KK
Tom

Low

Everybody else



I would lol if either Gheb or Nick was vig. (Why are we even assuming there is a vig anyways?)

Vote count pl0x.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

That's right Tom. If you aren't here to do it then who's gonna do it

 

[Riddle]

Sorry I forgot about the editing rules. All I did was Underline "Higher than Top" in my scum tier lis. Reverse if you want though =/