Kuraudo
4Aerith
My other manager told me that it SHOULD be fine, but that I should consult with the General Manager in charge of our schedule first. It's looking good because my bosses are awesome, but I'll have an answer by Tuesday for sure.
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Kuraudo
4Aerith
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Yup. I've already booked the time off way in advance. All I'm doing now is waiting on if my manager lets me take the time off for Phoenix 6. Guaranteed I'll be there.
Ness/G&W and Sonic? I can still use Meta Knight like last time though. My Dedede sucks now.
Ness/G&W and Sonic? I can still use Meta Knight like last time though. My Dedede sucks now.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Stephan's hosting this.....friday, yeah?? If so, I have it off!
Diminisht
Smash Journeyman
So I've been on hiatus lately, sorry guys. Work's been a *insert word that would make Mike W infract me*. Unfortunately, and this unfortunately is more towards Jack than anyone else, I can't make it to the tourney this month, so Jack you'll need to find a partner, Sorry to bail on you. As per the BC trip, I definitely cannot make it, With 31hrs of work and 5 classes this semester, I'm a whole new level of busy. Hopefully I can make the next one,
Cheers boys.
Cheers boys.
lilseph
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2010
- Messages
- 971
Yoshara
Smash Lord
Thank you for reminding me.
If anyone coming to my place on Friday is able to, can they please bring a Wii and possibly a TV as well?
If anyone coming to my place on Friday is able to, can they please bring a Wii and possibly a TV as well?
T-block
B2B TST
So guys, I was thinking we should make the first three tournaments or something free entry for newer players. Thoughts?
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Why should we have to handfeed the new players?? Just as some way of keeping them around? What happens when we start charging them? If they stick around, they stick around.
I paid for my tourneys when I was a scrub.
Also, I'll be there on Friday!
I paid for my tourneys when I was a scrub.
Also, I'll be there on Friday!
DTP
L o s t - in reality~
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 8,125
Makes no difference to me. 1st tourney free sounds more reasonable if you want to take that route. idk
brningpyre
Smash Lord
I don't see how being unable to win anything at a tourney would encourage people to play. We just need to communicate that there will plenty of matches to play (friendlies).
Also, I'll bring a small TV on Friday. Also, I'll bring my arcade stick. Also, I picked up Caruru Curovah.
Also, I'll bring a small TV on Friday. Also, I'll bring my arcade stick. Also, I picked up Caruru Curovah.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
..... Keith playing Carl? This could be interesting... 360, right? I'll bring my stick too.
T-block
B2B TST
I think it will increase the chances of them sticking around... more time to get to know everyone before being scared of the idea of wasting money.
They'd be allowed to win money if they placed. It's highly unlikely that they will, and if they do, then I think that's fine tbh. They get some free money, we get a new strong player in the scene.
They'd be allowed to win money if they placed. It's highly unlikely that they will, and if they do, then I think that's fine tbh. They get some free money, we get a new strong player in the scene.
It might feel lousy to be eliminated (thereby losing your own money) by somebody who didn't even pay to enter the tournament. An alternative approach could be issuing a refund to a new player who doesn't win any sets in the tournament, which avoids that; as far as rankings and prizes are concerned, it would be the same as if the player hadn't entered the tournament and their place in the bracket was a "bye", which is perhaps less objectionable intuitively.
Of course, the disadvantage of that approach is that it's harder to implement logistically -- you have to keep track of whether somebody has been refunded, and in any case refunds have to be taken into account before dispersing money to the winners. It also requires that new players bring cash, whereas under the original proposal, they could leave their money at home entirely for the first N tournaments.
Another (obvious) observation is that for most players, losing money monthly will just be a part of playing in tournaments. Hiding that fact temporarily doesn't change that it is the case in the long run if they plan to actually enter the tournaments. Part of what makes it a tournament rather than friendlies is that you are putting something on the line, which makes everybody play at their best. If somebody doesn't like that model, entering tournaments is probably not for them.
Of course, having something at risk doesn't actually make you play better unless there is some realistic chance of securing a positive return on investment. I remember how exciting it was the first time I had a chance to (and did) actually win money (at the first sou kawaii low tier tournament) -- suddenly it feels like the match outcomes actually matter in a way they didn't before, which really does make you play better.
Of course, the disadvantage of that approach is that it's harder to implement logistically -- you have to keep track of whether somebody has been refunded, and in any case refunds have to be taken into account before dispersing money to the winners. It also requires that new players bring cash, whereas under the original proposal, they could leave their money at home entirely for the first N tournaments.
Another (obvious) observation is that for most players, losing money monthly will just be a part of playing in tournaments. Hiding that fact temporarily doesn't change that it is the case in the long run if they plan to actually enter the tournaments. Part of what makes it a tournament rather than friendlies is that you are putting something on the line, which makes everybody play at their best. If somebody doesn't like that model, entering tournaments is probably not for them.
Of course, having something at risk doesn't actually make you play better unless there is some realistic chance of securing a positive return on investment. I remember how exciting it was the first time I had a chance to (and did) actually win money (at the first sou kawaii low tier tournament) -- suddenly it feels like the match outcomes actually matter in a way they didn't before, which really does make you play better.
T-block
B2B TST
To the second point, the reason I'm seriously considering this solution is that tournaments are currently our main interface with new players. Smashfests are the ideal scenario for introducing new players, but tournaments are where we see them. In this way, we can provide a smashfest atmosphere for the new player while maintaining most of our tournament status. Yes, it doesn't change anything in the long run for the new player, but I believe that this way, they are more like to make it to the "long run". If they have a free tournament, they walk away with having met new people and maybe even learning a few things, without that 10/20 dollar loss weighing that down. If they have a second, they get to meet everyone again (we're all super friendly of course) and maybe even see improvement in their own play, and can walk away again with only positive feelings. Then we say they should be paying entry fee and see how it goes. If they're good with it, then we have a new player. If not, then at that point they are more likely to come out to smashfests and such until they are ready for tournaments.
I've just been thinking a lot about how we've been seeing quite the influx of new players, and how often I look at them and think "nice to have them here, but i wouldn't bet money on seeing them again" and that definitely shouldn't be the case.
I've just been thinking a lot about how we've been seeing quite the influx of new players, and how often I look at them and think "nice to have them here, but i wouldn't bet money on seeing them again" and that definitely shouldn't be the case.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
I guess I can see your point... Maybe we should see how this monthly goes first when it comes to our numbers. If they start dwindling again, maybe we could try. Guess we could call this a "trial tourney" for them if we did go this route.
Yoshara
Smash Lord
So wait, RPS is being likened to a monthly fee and we are now contemplating introducing a trial service? I am not taking sides on this right now, I am just noting that this is kind of an amusing comparison.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
They get a 30 day trial of Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Tournament Edition before they have to pay.
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
good thing I stopped going to these PWNED
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
If you do pull through with that idea Mike, maybe you should just make it the first tourney, or the first 2. I think first 3 tourneys is too much.
MeSSi
Smash Ace
mike/darren let me know when u are going to book yur flight.
Limeee
Smash Champion
I don't support this, for the same reasons as Stephan.
Most of my friends that are interested don't have wii's, so they can't practice to come up to our level of play. Even if it was free for a tourney, I don't think they would come. Probably the best way is to have an amateur tournament for people who have only started coming to tournaments recently (say, they started 3 months ago at the most). That would make it seem a bit more reasonable. Just think of it this way. Kids don't start playing hockey with the pro's, they have to be introduced to it by joining little kid leagues. This way they can ease into it without being worried of getting stomped.
Also, for personal reasons. Its not fair to us veterans (like me) who were pot feeding last place losers for at least a year, and then used that frustration topick MK improve as a player. Now I'm encouraged to try my hardest, to make up for that money lost, or to get revenge on people I've been losing to for so long.
Just my two cents.
Most of my friends that are interested don't have wii's, so they can't practice to come up to our level of play. Even if it was free for a tourney, I don't think they would come. Probably the best way is to have an amateur tournament for people who have only started coming to tournaments recently (say, they started 3 months ago at the most). That would make it seem a bit more reasonable. Just think of it this way. Kids don't start playing hockey with the pro's, they have to be introduced to it by joining little kid leagues. This way they can ease into it without being worried of getting stomped.
Also, for personal reasons. Its not fair to us veterans (like me) who were pot feeding last place losers for at least a year, and then used that frustration to
Just my two cents.
Kuraudo
4Aerith
... Master Brandon makes a good point. Yeah I agree.
Also? I officially have the time off. Count me in on that 5th spot.
Also? I officially have the time off. Count me in on that 5th spot.
Jams.
+15 Attack
Sorry if I'm kind of barging in here, but this is just my two cents.
I feel that while amateur tournaments are a solution to this problem, they are not a solution that can be applied to the Edmonton community due to the numbers involved. Generally, Animethon and the beginning of the fall semester bring in the greatest number of newcomers (due to the large Brawl tournament and new university students wanting to join the Smash Club respectively). The only other time I can recall where more than 2 people joined a tournament was near the time of that free Brawl/Melee tournament where a bunch of guys from Engg joined for a reason I forget. If we look at the data for these three situations specifically in the past year, I believe it becomes obvious why the solution of amateur tournaments of newcomers of the last 3 months will not work for this community. Last fall semester, I believe 4 new people attended; for the Engg event, I believe 4 or 5 new people attended; after Animethon this year, I believe around 4-6 newcomers joined the community.
If you hold amateur tournaments with the rules stated, a tournament is essentially being held for at most 6 people. I'm no expert on the logistics of these tournaments, but I feel that holding a tournament for 4-6 people is a waste of time and resources. My conclusion is subjective, but I feel that the numbers don't justify amateur tournaments.
I'm supportive of Cathy's solution, in that a feel newcomers are much more likely to stay in the community if they feel they can actually reach the level of the veterans. Getting 0-2'd in every game you play is a terrible experience; one feels like he just wasted money for no reason. It's not a large loss to the pot, and may not actually influence the size of the pot at all if the newcomer is actually pretty good.
That being said, I'm unsure of the realism of this solution in terms of logistics and organization, someone more experienced will have to speak about this issue.
However, I'm not really a part of this community and so my opinions don't count for much. Maybe next year I'll go to U of A. X)
I feel that while amateur tournaments are a solution to this problem, they are not a solution that can be applied to the Edmonton community due to the numbers involved. Generally, Animethon and the beginning of the fall semester bring in the greatest number of newcomers (due to the large Brawl tournament and new university students wanting to join the Smash Club respectively). The only other time I can recall where more than 2 people joined a tournament was near the time of that free Brawl/Melee tournament where a bunch of guys from Engg joined for a reason I forget. If we look at the data for these three situations specifically in the past year, I believe it becomes obvious why the solution of amateur tournaments of newcomers of the last 3 months will not work for this community. Last fall semester, I believe 4 new people attended; for the Engg event, I believe 4 or 5 new people attended; after Animethon this year, I believe around 4-6 newcomers joined the community.
If you hold amateur tournaments with the rules stated, a tournament is essentially being held for at most 6 people. I'm no expert on the logistics of these tournaments, but I feel that holding a tournament for 4-6 people is a waste of time and resources. My conclusion is subjective, but I feel that the numbers don't justify amateur tournaments.
I'm supportive of Cathy's solution, in that a feel newcomers are much more likely to stay in the community if they feel they can actually reach the level of the veterans. Getting 0-2'd in every game you play is a terrible experience; one feels like he just wasted money for no reason. It's not a large loss to the pot, and may not actually influence the size of the pot at all if the newcomer is actually pretty good.
That being said, I'm unsure of the realism of this solution in terms of logistics and organization, someone more experienced will have to speak about this issue.
However, I'm not really a part of this community and so my opinions don't count for much. Maybe next year I'll go to U of A. X)
T-block
B2B TST
I understand, and this is why I wanted extensive discussion before even considering further.I don't support this, for the same reasons as Stephan.
Most of my friends that are interested don't have wii's, so they can't practice to come up to our level of play. Even if it was free for a tourney, I don't think they would come. Probably the best way is to have an amateur tournament for people who have only started coming to tournaments recently (say, they started 3 months ago at the most). That would make it seem a bit more reasonable. Just think of it this way. Kids don't start playing hockey with the pro's, they have to be introduced to it by joining little kid leagues. This way they can ease into it without being worried of getting stomped.
Also, for personal reasons. Its not fair to us veterans (like me) who were pot feeding last place losers for at least a year, and then used that frustration topick MKimprove as a player. Now I'm encouraged to try my hardest, to make up for that money lost, or to get revenge on people I've been losing to for so long.
Just my two cents.
That's a fair point obviously, so I guess what I'm asking if you are willing to sacrifice "fairness" for the increased chances of retaining newcomers. If you think about it, pretty much everyone except Luke and Jack were nothing more than pot feeders when starting out (I still am lololol). Consistent fifth place was no different from consistent last place in that regard.
All in all, it boils down to this: I want to avoid the situation where a player comes in and has potential - potential to not only skill-wise, but also potential to truly enjoy the game - but leaves the venue at the end of the day after losing every set 0-2 and can only think of the money "wasted" rather than the experience. Obviously I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure it's happened with our scene several times before.
T-block
B2B TST
As for flights, I'm going to be booking the following:
WS 573 on September 23rd. This is YEG to YVR, leaving 6:30pm.
WS 418 on September 25th. This is YVR to YEG, leaving 9:30pm.
EDIT: I'll book on Thursday, in case any seat sales pop up on that day.
WS 573 on September 23rd. This is YEG to YVR, leaving 6:30pm.
WS 418 on September 25th. This is YVR to YEG, leaving 9:30pm.
EDIT: I'll book on Thursday, in case any seat sales pop up on that day.
MeSSi
Smash Ace
cool. we will do it on thursday too
Yoshara
Smash Lord
Apparently the 3DS is getting a attachment that adds a second analog slidepad, but it is only because Capcom is porting MH3 Tri to the 3DS and needs a second slidepad for that, and the attachment will as a result pretty much only be for the MH3 Tri port (named Monster Hunter 3 Tri G).
In bigger news MH3 Tri is coming to the 3DS.
In bigger news MH3 Tri is coming to the 3DS.
Yoshara
Smash Lord
Well, that depends on if I get that 5th spot in the carpool.
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