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Rock Paper Scissors

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~Firefly~

~Firefly~

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You would. >.>

I like having a character for low tiers. It would've been really annoying if both Yoshi and Ike had moved out of low tier, especially since I've just recently started polishing up my Ike again... -_-

:008:
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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I voted for ike to remain in low tier, but oh well... I guess he deserves the rise, but I still feel he is garbage.

EDIT: Mike, I voted marth for second actually.
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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~Firefly~ said:
o.0

Why? I'm really curious now.

:008:
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What the BBR tried to do was to make a list based off the 3.1 ruleset, or at least that's what was told to us. If I made a list assuming an lgl was in effect, I'd vote falco for second for sure, followed by diddy, then IC's maybe etc... But without an lgl, falco, diddy and IC's suffer to an extent, and marth also gains a slight advantage, because his planking is actually pretty good, and he has some alright options to stop planking himself. Overall I think marth is a top5 character regardless of lgl or not, but with no lgl, the characters that seem better with one, just don't have the same strengths as they have without one.
 
ChaosDrifter

ChaosDrifter

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i was surprised to see wario ahead of marth, but they were soooo freaking close votewise they're practically both 5th on the list

anyone else surprised MK didn't move up?
 
Kuraudo

Kuraudo

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I'm surprised that Meta Knight didn't remain in his own Top Tier while the others were High Tier.

Because that's how it should be. Especially when implimenting the new ruleset.
 
~Firefly~

~Firefly~

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T-block said:
You should have seen Ike's rise coming... it was pretty obvious he was gonna move out of low tier with the next list.
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I did see it coming. lol

Alphicans said:
What the BBR tried to do was to make a list based off the 3.1 ruleset, or at least that's what was told to us. If I made a list assuming an lgl was in effect, I'd vote falco for second for sure, followed by diddy, then IC's maybe etc... But without an lgl, falco, diddy and IC's suffer to an extent, and marth also gains a slight advantage, because his planking is actually pretty good, and he has some alright options to stop planking himself. Overall I think marth is a top5 character regardless of lgl or not, but with no lgl, the characters that seem better with one, just don't have the same strengths as they have without one.
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Makes sense. It's still a bit of a stretch for me personally to see Marth as #2 when you consider his MU with MK, but I get where you're coming from.

:008:
 
KillLock

KillLock

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Marth's planking is pretty good. but you have to remember that if he planks he's looking at landing lag the next time he hits the ground(unless he does an air attack before hitting the ground). but none the less he is more powerful as a character when he doesn't have to worry about LGL.

wouldn't bet my money on him being #2 though.
 
ChaosDrifter

ChaosDrifter

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guys MK still is in his own tier

it's just they put the S tier and A tier together as the two top tiers where as before metaknight's tier was in it's own group, he's still in his own tier though
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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~Firefly~ said:
I did see it coming. lol



Makes sense. It's still a bit of a stretch for me personally to see Marth as #2 when you consider his MU with MK, but I get where you're coming from.

:008:
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Meh, Marth's m/u with MK isn't as bad as people used to think. Lots think it's getting closer to even, but some still think it's auto win for MK. I am not 100% what I think, but if euro marths can keep up with MK's, I am inclined to believe that marth has plenty of options to beat MK.
 
ChaosDrifter

ChaosDrifter

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i still think marth vs. MK is 40:60, europe marths seem to make it look like 45:55, i gotta learn how they do it haha

one thing i recently learned is that marth can punish MK's fair with dancing blade OoS since marth takes a step forward with the 1st hit of db
 
brningpyre

brningpyre

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I'm getting off my butt (well, not really) to upload the remaining recorded matches. It'll probably take a day or two to get them all up.
 
KillLock

KillLock

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60:40/65:35 isn't auto win. Marth has some pretty solid options against MK, but MK has more options against Marth and get's rewarded more for his punishes. You also have to play smarter consistently which can get rather boring and hectic(ADD here looolll). Also Marth has a hard time not getting juggled and MK is godly in that field.

When I play consistent in Marth vs MK I find it pretty even but it doesn't always work that way(Bad gimps kill momentum for example) and you have to play a big prediction game as well.

MK has so many approaches on Marth, all which he can mix up extremely well.

Run shield -To counter fair/spacing, can bait dodge for grab or grab if you camp shield + Up B OoS
Run Dodge - To counter grab/mixup
Run Grab - To counter shield
Dash Attack - Good at beating spacing/good for follow ups
Forward air - Spacing
Downtilt - Spacing/ also his most disjointed hitbox + good tripping chance
Forward tilt - best spacing tool against marth imo
Neutral B - Marth has to be grounded to punish this effectively, Marth in the air against tornado is a bad situation, you can try and counter in the air as well but most people get dedicated to fair by the time tornado comes, also he can bait with tornado on your counter or go through it in some scenarios

Marth has to play patient in this mu and work much harder.
 
lilseph

lilseph

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He does have plently of options to beat MK, that doesn't mean its even by any means. IMO Marth vs MK is all about the mind set you go into the MU. If Marth doesn't know what hes doing, he is going to get ****ed up. If MK thinks its auto win, he will get ****ed up. I think the MU is 55-45 for MK because Marth has to work so much harder than MK does to get anywhere in this MU, not to mention MK is so much faster than Marth is.
 
lilseph

lilseph

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Kuraudo said:
The way you describe it, that sounds like a 60:40 match-up or 65:35.
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How so?

I'm just saying that Marth has a hard time in the MU and has to work very hard to compete with MK. But If the Marth player knows the MU threw and threw and makes little mistakes, than he will give the MK a run for his money. Its a MU where you have to capitalize on all of the mistakes given to you, and MK is better suited for that job, and he is faster and packs a bigger punch as far as puncishing goes.
 
ChaosDrifter

ChaosDrifter

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I think wat kyle's trying to say is wat jack said earlier, MK punishes Marth harder than Marth punishes MK, so the Marth needs to play very smart with this in mind.
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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I think that marth with a percent lead may have the advantage 55-45, but MK with a percent lead is at an advantage of between 60-40 and 65-35. MK has an easier time getting the lead, but marth can do it with smart punishes and grab release stuff. Over all anywhere between 60-40 and 55-45 for MK.

Also, grab release to spike is a harder punish than anything MK can do, so I wouldn't say MK punishes marth WAY harder. Marth can **** him up sometimes.
 
KillLock

KillLock

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lol yeah but

grab release to spike is really hard

have like 1-2 frames to buffer it if I recall correctly.
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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Well yeah it's hard, but I see the euro marths do it pretty consistently, so it's clearly possible to do it at a practical level.
 
T-block

T-block

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When we talk about character potential, as for a tier list, 1-2 frame buffer is trivial. We can assume that at the top level players can and will perform it consistently.
 
Yoshara

Yoshara

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Go with "RAIMU", engrish for Lime.

P.S. So, Keith, are you gonna be able to pick me up for the BB tournament tomorrow?

 
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