~ ROB Secondaries ~ Week #5: Diddy

[TheMike]

All right guys, this is a thread for us to discuss ROB secondaries.Remember the characters that ROB is weak against and also stages so as to discuss.


Following the Tier List v3.0 sequence, the character for us to discuss now isDiddy.


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~ Meta Knight ~

MK is probably the best secondary for every one, and ROB is included. MK does better than ROB is most of ROB's bad match-ups, such as DDD, Zamus, G&W and others. Continuing playing with ROB against ICs is a better idea though, IMO.

ROB can do better than MK in some stages, like Jungle Japes. Read Overswarm's opinion about it:

Jungle Japes:

this is a horrid MK stage in that MK dies just about as fast as normal, but now loses his most reliable kill move (up+b OoS) and on one side is now unable to dair gimp. What's worse is he can't effectively edgeguard anyway, and people have a zillion ledges to grab. ROB does better here, and I often go ROB on unsuspecting players. Works about 90% of the time.

All in all, MK is the best secondary for ROB for sure. Just don't let him to be ur main as ROB is awesome <3


~ Snake ~

Snake is a better option than ROB at the MK Match-up, but u need to lear the Match-up well, otherwise, u'll find problems facing good MKs. He is also very nice against G&W.

Snake is a nice secondary, but u'll continue having problems against DDDs though.

In stages like Jungle Japes, ROB is continues better, but Snake can do a really good stuff in Battlefield, for example.


~ Wario ~

I'll be just copying what i've said:

Well, Wario, like the other top characters, is a good secondary. He is nice against Falco(Dthrow buffered CG) and can do a good job against Snake. He is also better than us in the MK Match-up, but not that much. Vs Diddy and G&W he isn't too bad and might helps us at CP options, especally Vs G&W(even MU) because we have a little advantage against Diddy.

Wario solves our killing moves problems. He has awesome ones, such as Fsmash, Uair and Fart. Stages.. hmm, Wario is also good at Frigate and Jungle Japes. FD isn't good, so don't even think in picking it up as Wario. Brinstar, which isn't too god for us, isn't bad for him. He is probably an option there(obviously, not better than MK).

Padô, buenob and A2Z also said some good things:

Wario is always a good choice if you are trying to counter the top tiers, not saying that Wario is an MK counter but is pretty even, he is REALLY good against Snake, Falco and Marth if you know the matchup well.
FORGET about DDD this match requires SO MUCH experience and ROBs projectiles must keep this match pretty even too.

TBH I'd prefer picking Wario against heavycharacters (but DDD) since killing heavycharacters with ROB is a pain in the *** or lightcharacters like Lucario, GW which die around 70% with the fart.

wario is like the opposite character from rob... he has amazing multi-hit moves that abuse frame advantage and multiple hitboxes (shield poking)... his zone is inside the opponent lol... wario gets low% kills where rob ends up getting the opponent to rediculous high percents or gimps...

anyways, I could definitely see that being a solid mindgame, since the opponent would have to immediately switch styles or be caught in the wrong space...

Wario does better against Metaknight and G&W than ROB, so that's a good reason to use him. He also is hurt less by platforms in general too, which helps on various CPs.

Captain Falcon also infinites him though. =P

~ Falco ~

Falco against MK is a nice Match-up, just try to avoid going off-stage and camp like hell. Well, Falco needs to camp in most of his Match-ups, and this is similar to ROB. Maybe this is an advantage of secondarying Falco: "Campering Experiece".

Falco is great vs DDD. CG and not being chain grabbed ftw. As Tin said, Japes is even more viable. He's better than ROB vs Zamus and G&W(even MU), too =D

Falco is a godly secondary...beats DDD and ZSS, and does really good against MK

TIME TO DISCUSS DIDDY

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

MK is the best secondary. He does better than ROB in all of ROB's bad matchups. In fact, MK does better than ROB in ROB's good matchups, so you're best off just using MK. Just ask OS.

 

[Mr.E]

You might as well play MK all the time if you're going to bother learning him for even some of the time.

 

[Sudai]

That's the issue with discussing MK as a viable secondary. Don't bother. He is a better option than ROB in most situations. Should probably just skip MK.

 

[TheMike]

MK is the best secondary for ROB mains, it's even better to main him, but as we love ROB, we won't let him to be our secondary lol

Well, MK does a very good job against G&W, DDD, Zamus and Falco(just don't get chain grabbed). Nothing much to say about the broken char.

- - -

Please add things that was not mentioned yet for us to make a nice summry ^^

 

[HolyNightmare]

There's still a few matchups were you are better off with ROB such as when you are facing an Ice Climber, MK vs Ice Climber is no fun. Any ROB mainer will usually second MK, he's the best choice out of the entire cast.

 

[TheMike]

Yeah, IC vs MK is an even match-up(probably 55:45 MK) and ROB does a very good job against the ICs.
What about discussing stages that ROB isn´t good and MK is(all lol)? Jungle Japes vs Falco, for example..

 

[Overswarm]

I kind of prefer MK in the matchup just because I don't have any experience with ROB. I 3 stocked the first ICs I played with ROB, and Lain will grab me out of f-tilts, spot dodges, d-smashes, whatever. Did you know ICs can grab after a laser or gyro? I did not.

I think ROB would have a pretty good time with them if you had some practice.



ROB is useful for the following occurances:

Jungle Japes:

this is a horrid MK stage in that MK dies just about as fast as normal, but now loses his most reliable kill move (up+b OoS) and on one side is now unable to dair gimp. What's worse is he can't effectively edgeguard anyway, and people have a zillion ledges to grab. ROB does better here, and I often go ROB on unsuspecting players. Works about 90% of the time.

vs. really good gimpable characters that know the MK matchup but not ROB (ex: Falco, Snake, Fox, Wolf, any tether recovery, etc.):

There was a time when I didn't know the Snake matchup with MK. I slowly started to learn it and could beat most Snakes by gimping them all day, but good Snakes made it difficult. When I came across a Snake that just knew the matchup 10x better than I did, I would pick ROB on their CP (halberd all the time) or take them to Frigate. Most people don't, or didn't at that time, have ROB experience so they got wrecked pretty hardcore just by the standard b-throw from the stage, fair chain to bair.

vs. ICs if you know the matchup

Like Holy said up above

Doubles when you are vs. two gimpable opponents and need a heavy character

MK is top 3 in teams, at worst. Wario and G&W can give him a run for their money, but MK is still always on the winning teams. ROB does have his uses though; going ROB and simply waiting off or near off stage gives you plenty of room to jump off and edgeguard someone that goes flying. I've won entire sets just by letting my teammate spam moves while I throw lasers to interrupt any combos and shoot charged gyros at anyone that comes near me. They mostly leave me alone, get knocked off stage and ALWAYS use their second jump ASAP (why do people do this in teams?) and i just float off stage and fair them to death. ROB is also really good at evening the score with his u-air. Change your game to just throwing out u-airs, especially on Delfino or Halberd, and you'll deal 40-60% in no time.



That's really about it.


If you're looking for a secondary that DOESN'T do better than ROB in all matchups, you can get the same effect as MK with Wario except slightly less extreme. Your best secondaries are probably going to be better than ROB to begin with. If you're wanting another odd character, pick up Kirby. He's not totally eclipsing your main, but he's pretty good, not many people main him, and he has real combos.


Also, since when was Falco a bad matchup for ROB? Big ol' wtf for that one.

 

[TheMike]

I think Overswarm won almost(just not to say all lol) the whole MK as a secondary discussion =0


- And i don't see Falco as BAD match-up, but i think he has the advantage, around 55:45 in his favor IMO. -

 

[CT Chia]

MK is the worst secondary in the game because when you second him he becomes better than your main.

 

[Commander_Beef]

MK is the worst secondary in the game because when you second him he becomes better than your main.

I was about to say that Meta Knight is the best secondary for anybody...but when I see that post, I just get the feeling that he should really be banned.

 

[TheMike]

OP updated.

No more MK discussions below this post. Now let's discuss Snake!
And the images are temporary, i'll try to find better ones.

 

[Overswarm]

Snake can be used against G&W and MK, but fails against D3 if you have issues in that matchup.

He's easy to learn, but everyone already knows the matchup. Just pick him up as a solo secondary vs. MK and you'll find yourself losing as often as you did with ROB since all good MKs can play the matchup.

 

[TheMike]

Snake can be used against G&W and MK, but fails against D3 if you have issues in that matchup.

He's easy to learn, but everyone already knows the matchup. Just pick him up as a solo secondary vs. MK and you'll find yourself losing as often as you did with ROB since all good MKs can play the matchup.

It's difficult to find a secondary that can beat MK if the player knows the match-up.


* I'll soon comment about Snake ^.- *

 

[buenob]

well the point of having a secondary is having a char you're comfortable playing... if you pick up snake just for MK, then eventually you will become just as experienced as the opponent... just because it's not going to be easy doesn't mean it's a terrible idea...

there's definitely going to be tonnes of matchup experience on the other side, but you gotta trust your ability to learn just as well as the opponent...

 

[Darth Waffles]

if you pick up snake just for MK, then eventually you will become just as experienced as the opponent...

That's pretty much what I've started to do. Snake just has so much more potential and I love the grenade options he has vs MK

 

[TheMike]

OP updated. Let's discuss Wario!!!

 

[GwJ]

Can you edit the OP so it has correct grammar/spelling? Sorry, just a pet peeve and it'll make it look more official and better overall.

 

[Sudai]

Someone will probably have to edit that stuff for him and PM it to him. Pretty sure English is Mike's second language considering he's from Brazil. ;]

 

[TheMike]

Yeah, it is( i had some problems when Affinity came here=[ ). I'm working hard so as to have a better English. If someone can help me with my mistakes, just PM me, as Sudai said.

 

[TheMike]

It'll be nice to discuss, don't u agree ROBoards?? ^^


And i'll give my opinion:

Well, Wario, like the other top characters, is a good secondary. He is nice against Falco(Dthrow buffered CG) and can do a good job against Snake. He is also better than us in the MK Match-up, but not that much. Vs Diddy and G&W he isn't too bad and might helps us at CP options, especally Vs G&W(even MU) because we have a little advantage against Diddy.

Wario solves our killing moves problems. He has awesome ones, such as Fsmash, Uair and Fart. Stages.. hmm, Wario is also good at Frigate and Jungle Japes. FD isn't good, so don't even think in picking it up as Wario. Brinstar, which isn't too god for us, isn't bad for him. He is probably an option there(obviously, not better than MK).

 

[Padô]

Wario is always a good choice if you are trying to counter the top tiers, not saying that Wario is an MK counter but is pretty even, he is REALLY good against Snake, Falco and Marth if you know the matchup well.
FORGET about DDD this match requires SO MUCH experience and ROBs projectiles must keep this match pretty even too.

TBH I'd prefer picking Wario against heavycharacters (but DDD) since killing heavycharacters with ROB is a pain in the *** or lightcharacters like Lucario, GW which die around 70% with the fart.

I'll post more latter couse i'm a little time less right now =)

Love you Mike!!!

 

[buenob]

wario is like the opposite character from rob... he has amazing multi-hit moves that abuse frame advantage and multiple hitboxes (shield poking)... his zone is inside the opponent lol... wario gets low% kills where rob ends up getting the opponent to rediculous high percents or gimps...

anyways, I could definitely see that being a solid mindgame, since the opponent would have to immediately switch styles or be caught in the wrong space...

 

[Mister Eric]

umm rob doesnt need a secondary.

 

[buenob]

just because I agree with you doesn't mean I'm not going to point out

OBVIOUS TROLL IS OBVIOUS

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wario does better against Metaknight and G&W than ROB, so that's a good reason to use him. He also is hurt less by platforms in general too, which helps on various CPs.

Captain Falcon also infinites him though. =P

 

[TheMike]

OP Updated. It's time to discuss Falco!
If someone has nice images, PM me.

 

[xepherthree]

Falco: IMMA FIRIN MAH patheticallyweakbutspammable LAZOR!
i has cg
Has good options with alot of fast and damging moves
fsmash is redonkulous
Can limit options with (gay) reflector...

That's all I got.
I don't like falco very much XD

 

[stingers]

Falco is a godly secondary...beats DDD and ZSS, and does really good against MK

 

[GwJ]

And then he dies because he was offstage.

 

[stingers]

makes you wonder how sk92 beat dojo huh @.@

 

[GwJ]

He DOES have cool hair y'know.

 

[Tin Man]

Falco is a godly secondary...beats DDD and ZSS, and does really good against MK

I agree with this, make jungle japes even more viable.

 

[TheMike]

Falco against MK is a nice Match-up, just try to avoid going off-stage and camp like hell. Well, Falco needs to camp in most of his Match-ups, and this is similar to ROB. Maybe this is an advantage of secondarying Falco: "Campering Experiece".

Falco is great vs DDD. CG and not being chain grabbed ftw. As Tin said, Japes is even more viable. He's better than ROB vs Zamus and G&W(even MU), too =D

 

[Tin Man]

recovering isn't that difficult, and on stages like battlefield, you have more options of where to land + u can cancel your phantasm so, it ain't so bad IMO

 

[6Mizu]

Oh...Oh can u do marth next....
he's my second, i no thats wierd a ROB main seconding Marth.

 

[TheMike]

Oh...Oh can u do marth next....
he's my second, i no thats wierd a ROB main seconding Marth.

We're following the Tier List v3.0 sequence. So, we still have Diddy Kong and DDD before him ^^

 

[Tin Man]

Why is it weird to use marth and rob??? So what if marth has no projectiles, if he suites you well then what ever, play whomever u want (THATS TOURNAMENT VIABLE, I "lol" at low tiers)

 

[6Mizu]

Ah....that mean marth is COMING SOON!
yah!

 

[TheMike]

So, I think we have some good stuff for Falco. Let's move on! Time to discuss Diddy as a secondary.