ROB Community Guide

[GwJ]

Don't let this die, keep it going guys.

 

[Mag!c]

Um. A few posts back, I did at least a triple post, lots of writeups, including B-Throw, F-Throw, D-Smash, D-Tilt, etc. Could those please be put down?

 

[GwJ]

Did I forget those? Lemme check. I just woke up by the way at 2:10 PM.
GG life

edit: Kdone

 

[Mag!c]

Thanks. Does anything else need writing up? I'll be happy to do it.

Also, does anybody actually read what I write? Sometimes I feel like Holy, HuGs, or somebody could totally write this better than I could. I feel kind of inadequate as a writer and a ROB. Bah, low self esteem.

 

[GwJ]

Exactly. I feel like breaking into the rest of the community's houses and telling them "Screw the $20, write me a part for the guide."

 

[stingers]

You know what I want~~~

 

[Sudai]

If you guys paid me, I'd gladly write a comprehensive ROB guide. XD

I just don't play this game enough to care to take the time to do it. There's a new ROB named Curlz here that I'm teaching..tell him to write down everything I teach him and that'll be the new ROB guide? XD

 

[GwJ]

Looking forward to hearing from Curlz. BTW Sudai, there's stuff you've said in the past that I want to put in, I just have been too lazy to find it.

@Stingers: Here:
This is an official GwJ voucher for $20. You may redeem this at the GwJ store, which is coming soon.

 

[Sudai]

It's whatever Gw. If you get around to it you get around to it, if not, someone else might, if not, oh well. We'll just encourage people to read all the threads in their entirety? XD

I'll tell Curlz today that he's supposed to take notes. Hope he brings a notebook. Haha.

 

[Syde7]

Tbh, there isn't that much "universal" stuff left to write out, for the most part. Maybe some "universal" combos/set-ups, but the rest are somewhat character dependent.

 

[GwJ]

We still need frame data on like everything, follow-ups to every move, and tips/techniques.

 

[Syde7]

Well, perhaps we need to set an "agenda" of sorts, instead of people arbitrarily picking what they think is important.

Some things:

1- COMPLETE Frame Data; Start up, hitbox duration, cooldown, total
2- Simple "combos" or strings of moves broken down into
-->Universal (Works on pretty much every char)
-->Heavies (Ex; Bowser, DK, Snake, DeDeDe, Ganon)
-->Floaties (Ex; Jiggly, Kirby, MK)
-->Fast Fallers (Ex; Spacies)

3- Grab Release stuffs (is this even applicable to ROB??)
-->Ground
-->Air

4-Gyro Data (pulled from the old thread ages ago about it)

5-Laser Data (pulled from the old thread ages ago about it)

6-More in General Tips/Tricks (ISJR)

7-I suggest to move the Defrag "box" here and update accordingly, pulling from the discussion

8- I suggest to move the stages (from defrag) here and update accordingly, pulling from the discussion

9- I can write "short" synopses for the matchups to post here, and link to the complete synopses

I'll get to work on some of this now-ish.

 

[GwJ]

I can get all this frame data stuff with debug mode, right?

 

[Syde7]

Sorry for the 2x post... but, I figured I would break these down...

Also, nix #5 in the info above, as upon further reading... its all been stated.



Gyro Stuff:
*credit goes to Zastrozzi's OLD thread on this for most of this data

There are three states that the gyro can be in once it is in play in the field:

1) Spinning, where it is on the ground but still quickly rotating from the charge.

2) Wobbling, where the momentum of the charge is dying down causing an abnormal rotation, and finally;

3) Sitting, where the gyro has stopped spinning and is laying idly on the ground.

Regardless of the state, the opponent can pick up the gyro and use the item as their own- but it is considerably more difficult to do when it is in any other state but Sitting. Based on the state, and charge level, it remains in play for different periods of time. The data I’ve gathered through some independent research and testing by others indicates that there are multiple charge levels, but I am too lazy to test to get the data on the others, and there isn’t any readily available.

Minimum Charge
5 seconds total existence
----->1 second spinning
----->2 seconds wobbling
----->2 seconds grounded

Maximum Charge (3 seconds)
8 seconds total existence
----->3 seconds spinning
----->3 seconds wobbling
----->2 seconds grounded

->The time starts when the Gyro finishes bouncing along the ground. If you pick it up, the count will continue.

->If something is hit during the initial toss, the count can start early.

->The gyro does not disappear until it comes to its sitting state on the ground, so you can infinitely toss it and catch it in the air and toss again. However, if the gyro hits a shield, it simply disappears.

->Also during the toss, every time the gyro bounds along the ground, it loses 2% damage.
----->At full power, it deals 19%. After it touches the ground, it deals 17%, then 15% etc. The least damage it can deal is 5%.

->The gyro does appear to stale. A full charged gyro does 19% damage. Another one, immediately after it, both chars in the same spot, deals around 17% damage.

I can get all this frame data stuff with debug mode, right?

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

 

[GwJ]

Alright, hopefully I'll do that tomorrow. I'm leaving in two hours to go to a friend's house to meet a smasher from my area.

 

[Sudai]

Reading over the gyro damage, I know part of it is wrong and needs to be retested. "Full Power" isn't 14% damage. I've done 17% with it (unsure if it was even fresh or not) and I've noticed drops in damage when different distances away..so I'm 95% confident air time effects damage as well, not just bouncing.

 

[Syde7]

Reading over the gyro damage, I know part of it is wrong and needs to be retested. "Full Power" isn't 14% damage. I've done 17% with it (unsure if it was even fresh or not) and I've noticed drops in damage when different distances away..so I'm 95% confident air time effects damage as well, not just bouncing.

I took another look at it. In vs mode, a point blank one at full charge to start the match (as close as you can get without the gyro missing them entirely) deals 19% damage. Doing another from the same spot immediately after decreases it so that it does approx 15-17%. Doing it over and over, it decreases down to as much as 10%... all with a full charge, from the same spot.

I used "another ROB" (had two ROBs on the map to test this) and stood as far away as I could from the other one (without the gyro touching the ground) and dealt 19% for my first fully charged gyro.

As a result, I think its a matter of stale moves as opposed to decreases due to the time in the air. Either way, I'll fix the "maxiumum damage" and add that it appears to decrease about 2% when used consecutively, with the minimum being 5%

 

[Sudai]

Yeah. I at least knew max damage was wrong. No idea how you mess that one up though. XD

 

[Syde7]

Yeah. I at least knew max damage was wrong. No idea how you mess that one up though. XD

Well, don't blame me. Blame the dewd who did the thread that I jacked it from. =P

 

[Sudai]

I wasn't placing blame. No reason for that. I just wanted it corrected.

 

[Darth Waffles]

No jacking johns =P

Might want to add the "robot" line from this http://www.geocities.jp/kuso_dwi_lovers/list.html, unless the japanese version is different for any reason. Right now, you have the frames until the hitbox (right?) comes out. No way Upair takes 7 frames from start to finish lol

The colored number is the recommended one to do, as reasoned from http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=4377. I guess you might want to wait until our the new momentum cancel thread reaches everyone and settles out

 

[Syde7]

Also, as far as the whole frame data mess goes... I found a post that "recommends" a standard of sorts for compiling/showcasing them.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241316&highlight=Frames

I don't have the equip to do it.

 

[Syde7]

Some more mess to throw in "tips/tricks" or "AT's"



Second Jump Renewal & Infinite Second Jump Renewal (SJR & ISJR)

The second jump renewal is a way to... well, renew your double jump. To perform this follow these steps:

1) Jump (full or short)
2) Second jump (at any time)
3) Perform an aerial
4) Time the aerial so that you land on the ground as the move finishes**
5) Buffer a jump just before you land on the ground.
6) You should second-jump into the air with zero landing lag or jump time, as you are actually recovering your second-jump without touching the ground..

** = The exact frame window is unknown at this point. It is believed to either be as the entire move animation ends or as the ending autocancel frames begin. It could possibly differ between moves. Clarification on this would be appreciated.

All aerials, evidently, can be SJR'd. However, only some aerials can be used to renew the jump infinitely over solid ground. ROB's aerials which can be used to renew the second jump infinitely are as follows:

Nair - Most likely
Fair - Yes - Fast fall-able!
Dair - Yes
Bair - Yes
Uair - Yes

Fast-fallable means that these aerials may greatly increase the frame window for inputting the jump command, thus making the timing easier.

Now, what does this mean for ROB?

Essentially, he can continually move through the air executing aerials, without the use of his up+B. This can translate (theoretically) to setting up a huge wall of disjointed aerials with lingering hitboxes. Mix that in with his camping game, and characters who are forced to approach will have very, very few safe options. Additionally, if applied correctly you won't have to worry about footstool infinites (as you create a continues wall of hitboxes to protect you), and to some degree CG's (as you won't be touching the ground, and you can continually space them).

However, the timing on this is *really* hard, and it would take a LOT of practice to be able to institute and apply at will. But, for those of you who <3 <3 <3 AT's, and are upset that ROB doesn't have many... then feel free to learn this to your hearts content.

*all credit goes to Ekaru, 3xSwords, and Makkun for this discovery and its extensive testing, and even the majority of this post (as I more or less jacked it because the explanation was much better than what I could come up with). I am attempting to get in touch with them to get one of them to do a vid showing this in action for ROB.

 

[Syde7]

More Robo-Burner Business


Rising Aerials with Robo-Burner:

This is pretty basic, and as such every ROB should know how to do it, and when to do it.

Simply put, you can use the Robo-Burner to increase your height during aerials. This enables you to hit opponents that might have been out of range for whatever aerial you desired.


Performing this is super easy:
1- Initiate your up+b
2- Follow your opponent using your up+B
3- Start your desired aerial
4- Hold up on your control stick

Ex #1: You f-smashed your opponent off the stage after a glide-toss, but it didn't kill him. He DI'd properly and is now near the top corner of the map, out of reach of your "run off the stage->Jump->Aerial" and your "Run to the Edge-> Jump-> Double Jump->Aerial". Most characters would be stuck, having to wait for their opponent to come to them. However, by using a rising aerial with the Robo-Burner you can chase them, and N-, B-, F-, U-air them from below for the KO.

Ex #2: Your opponent is below you, off the stage, and is primed for a spike. However, that particular character has a good U-air that normally would beat out your D-air. By using a rising D-air, you can pull off the spike while moving away from them and skip the "bounce" ROB normally does when he D-airs.


PIVOTING/REVERSING THE ROBO-BURNER

Before I get into detail on these two facets of the Robo-Burner, let me differentiate between Wavebouncing and Pivoting/Reversing the Robo-Burner. While these may not be the "official" terms for said actions, I am clarifying now to avoid confusion.

Pivoting: Changing the way ROB *faces*, while keeping the same momentum.
Ex: ROB is floating to the right, facing right. Pivoting/Reversing the ROBO-Burner results in him now facing the left, while still floating right.

Wavebouncing: Changing the way ROB faces, and changing the momentum.
Ex: ROB is floating to the right, facing right. Wavebouncing the Robo-Burner results in him facing left, and now floating left.


Pivoting/Reversing the Robo-Burner (Airborne)

This is pretty darn easy. Once you are airborne, simply hit up+B and rotate the control stick the opposite way you are facing. It doesn't take much, just a light flick of the thumb.

This can be done from a normal jump/double jump, or after an aerial that you used to cancel his up+B

A Few Applications:
->During a F-air WoP, you can finish the "combo" off with a reversed B-air
->If you are chasing an airborne opponent, and they pull off something to reverse their momentum/direction, you can match it and hit with an appropriate aerial.
->While being edgeguarded, you can drop down and pivot the up+B (holding down afterward so as not to re-grab the ledge) and B-air them, or use the B-air to put some distance between the two of you, and use a laser/gyro.


Pivoting The Robo-Burner (Grounded)

This is slightly more difficult, especially if you have tap-jump off.

With Tap Jump On; Start running in one direction and execute the same button input as performing it in the air. Simply up+B and rotate the control stick a bit in the opposite direction.

With Tap Jump Off v1.0: In order to do this without tap jump on, and without remapping your buttons (more on that in a sec), you are going to have to use the "claw" method- that is to say, middle/ring finger on either Y/X respectively, index finger on B.

Start running in one direction and input jump and then almost immediately input up+B.

With Tap Jump Off v2.0: If using the claw method isn't your thing, you can map an additional "jump" to a button you rarely use. So, I mapped Z to jump. With that in mind, begin running in whatever direction, press Z(or whatever button you mapped an additional jump to) and almost immediately up+B.

A Few Applications:
-> You can run away from an opponent, and use it to turn around in the air and use an F-air to cover your retreat.
-> Instead of waiting until you run off the stage to do a pivoted up+B into a B-air edgeguard (in the event an opponent is recovering and over the stage already, and is looking for a place to land), you can execute it from the ground.
-> Use it as a cross-up
-> If you mess up reading your opponent, and overshoot your pursuit of them, you can go ahead and go past them into an aerial without having to RAR one.



((also, sorry for the DP's... just thought it would be easier for GW to pull the quotes from individual posts instead of snipping them))

 

[GwJ]

Added, and thanks for the DPs, made it clearer.

 

[TEECO]

Good **** DuLL RaZer. I need to work pivoting the Robo Burner into my game.. its so good.

EDIT: Dbl posted to bump thread

 

[TEECO]

ROB Moveset Pictures

Some of them couldn't convert for some stupid reason o_O?
I think it was the pictures of the Lasers.

Before I re-take the Laser pictures, let me know if theres anything I forgot or should get.

 

[Sudai]

You have the FSmashes labeled as USmash.

 

[Mr.E]

Those are actually kind of cool to look at.

 

[TEECO]

Lol. You're right Sudai.

Thanks Mr. E They were kinda fun to take.
Level 1 CPUs are so stupid.

 

[Mag!c]

Nice pics! They should brighten up the guide a lot!

 

[GwJ]

Thank you so much TEECO! I'll add these in later today when I'm not at the verge of falling asleep at my computer chair.

edit: I have nothing better to do now, I'll add those in.

 

[GwJ]

Ok, I added TEECO's pics in. There's obviously some missing, so if TEECO or anyone else wants to finish it, go right ahead.

 

[Darth Waffles]

You might want to mention that the frames you have listed for (at least) the aerials are the frames where the hitboxes come out, not the actual total time. Upair still doesn't start and finish in 7 frames, Dair in only 20, etc.

Nair takes 47 frames from start to finish; Hitbox comes out on frame ______ and lasts until frame ______
Fair takes 31 frames from start to finish; Hitbox " "
Bair takes 39 frames from start to finish; Hitbox " "
Uair takes 51 frames from start to finish; Hitbox " "
Dair takes 69 frames from start to finish; Hitbox " "

 

[GwJ]

If only we knew that data.

 

[Sudai]

Seriously...if a real ROB main doesn't do it..I'm gonna do it some time next week. And when I say that, that mean's I'm gonna do 1 move a day till we get a full moveset or someone else takes over. >:[

 

[GwJ]

I'll do it when I stop being a lazy arse and get debug mode on my sd card.

 

[Darth Waffles]

I don't main ROB any more



I main Ancient Minister in disguise

 

[TEECO]

thanks mag!c

Jumpman, i wouldn't mind finishing up the pics at all.

Excluding the laser pictures, tell me anything else you want a picture of and ill get it to you.
tonight lol

 

[GwJ]

Anything you feel needs a picture. I'm gonna try and get debug mode now.