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Rizk'in 2! NEW MI monthly hosted by Rizk7
- Thread starter Rizk18
- Start date
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Yay Ori! :D
And Drdn, since you were gonna go to BAMF for dubz, why not come here for dubz also?
Btw guys don't forget setups! I may be able to bring one too.
Hype!
And Drdn, since you were gonna go to BAMF for dubz, why not come here for dubz also?
Btw guys don't forget setups! I may be able to bring one too.
Hype!
DRDN
Smash Master
Because I need a ride who's also taking me to work after
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Officially not going to this.
Will be working that evening. So have fun, those who end attending.
Will be working that evening. So have fun, those who end attending.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Nooo Tech :'(
Maybe next time, hopefully this has a good turnout so I can contiune them. Also Ori, will you co-host with me? Btw im waiting on that banner X_X lol
Maybe next time, hopefully this has a good turnout so I can contiune them. Also Ori, will you co-host with me? Btw im waiting on that banner X_X lol
DarkLouis331
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,502
They scheduled me to work that Saturday. >.< I'm trying to switch atm with a coworker. There's so many things happening on the 9th that I don't want to miss out on...such as this. lol
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Dark you're right, I just found out I TODAY my cousins engagment is on THIS day :I
Seriously what are the chances? Good thing is the engagment starts at 7 and the tourney starts at 12 so hopefully it will be done by then( I'm pretty sure with the turnout it will be done even sooner) nonetheless I'm not going to rush you guys so don't worry. Hopefully I'll know how many people are expected. PLEASE PM ME IF YOU ARE 100 percent planning on coming! Please I need to know the number. So far I got: zyth and his friend,ori, me, . This is just who I know are coming for sure. Please guys I need to know If you're coming. Thanks
Seriously what are the chances? Good thing is the engagment starts at 7 and the tourney starts at 12 so hopefully it will be done by then( I'm pretty sure with the turnout it will be done even sooner) nonetheless I'm not going to rush you guys so don't worry. Hopefully I'll know how many people are expected. PLEASE PM ME IF YOU ARE 100 percent planning on coming! Please I need to know the number. So far I got: zyth and his friend,ori, me, . This is just who I know are coming for sure. Please guys I need to know If you're coming. Thanks
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
A 7 hour tournament? With both singles and doubles? Assuming nobody holds up the bracket, and you don't do pools or allow for a break in between... you might pull that off... good luck though.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
With the expected turnout, it's expected the tournament won't run long. Hopefully we have a good turnout.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
If you get more than say 5 teams and 16 singles entrants the tournament will likely run over time.
SCOTU
Smash Hero
I'll crunch some numbers for feasibility:
Assuming you get something unfavorable like 24 entrants with 4 TVs, but you know how to schedule matches to make the most efficient use of TVs, and assuming you're doing pools into everyone in a double elim bracket, you'll have something like:
15 Rounds for Pools (4 pools of 6) and 16.1 rounds for Bracket.
A "Round" refers to a set of matches fully utilizing the TVs in a way that cannot be compressed to take up less time. The decimal in 16.1 comes from the fact that I made assumptions about the likely length of sets in WF/LF/GF assuming you're doing Bo5 for WF/LF and Bo7 for GF (accounting for a 30% chance of a second set in GF).
If you estimate the average game length of brawl to be 4min and the average Bo3 set length to be 2.3 games, you end up with about 10min per round, or about 310min for your singles event, or approximately 5h10m.
Now, those are some rather unfavorable estimates of entrants and TVs. If, for instance, you had 24 entrants/6TVs, the number of rounds would drop to 21.1 or ~ 3.5 hours (if you did 6 pools of 4). 16 Entrants/4TVs = 18.1 rounds (4 pools of 4) or ~3 hours.
Doubles should take less time due to a probably significantly smaller entrant set (typically around 1/4 the entrant size as singles).
With small entrant sizes (i.e. you're not doing 1 set of pools and then another set afterwards; e.g. all pools are running simultaneously for singles), you should probably run doubles to completion, then start singles.
It should be doable to finish a small sized tourney in 7 hours if you want to. Just make sure that smooth match progression is a priority. In the first couple rounds of bracket, you'll note that you can't do an entire round of the bracket at once on your TVs. Saturate your TVs with one side of the bracket, then do say, 2 rounds with those people, then do the other side of the bracket (i.e. 1/2 the people play 2 matches before the other half play any). This doesn't lose any efficiency and will let the people who play first have a 2 round break while the 2nd half is playing (the 2nd half has a 2 round break while the first round is playing). This should give players a chance to take care of business without just spontaneously running off and needing to be DQd to stay on schedule. Good luck.
Assuming you get something unfavorable like 24 entrants with 4 TVs, but you know how to schedule matches to make the most efficient use of TVs, and assuming you're doing pools into everyone in a double elim bracket, you'll have something like:
15 Rounds for Pools (4 pools of 6) and 16.1 rounds for Bracket.
A "Round" refers to a set of matches fully utilizing the TVs in a way that cannot be compressed to take up less time. The decimal in 16.1 comes from the fact that I made assumptions about the likely length of sets in WF/LF/GF assuming you're doing Bo5 for WF/LF and Bo7 for GF (accounting for a 30% chance of a second set in GF).
If you estimate the average game length of brawl to be 4min and the average Bo3 set length to be 2.3 games, you end up with about 10min per round, or about 310min for your singles event, or approximately 5h10m.
Now, those are some rather unfavorable estimates of entrants and TVs. If, for instance, you had 24 entrants/6TVs, the number of rounds would drop to 21.1 or ~ 3.5 hours (if you did 6 pools of 4). 16 Entrants/4TVs = 18.1 rounds (4 pools of 4) or ~3 hours.
Doubles should take less time due to a probably significantly smaller entrant set (typically around 1/4 the entrant size as singles).
With small entrant sizes (i.e. you're not doing 1 set of pools and then another set afterwards; e.g. all pools are running simultaneously for singles), you should probably run doubles to completion, then start singles.
It should be doable to finish a small sized tourney in 7 hours if you want to. Just make sure that smooth match progression is a priority. In the first couple rounds of bracket, you'll note that you can't do an entire round of the bracket at once on your TVs. Saturate your TVs with one side of the bracket, then do say, 2 rounds with those people, then do the other side of the bracket (i.e. 1/2 the people play 2 matches before the other half play any). This doesn't lose any efficiency and will let the people who play first have a 2 round break while the 2nd half is playing (the 2nd half has a 2 round break while the first round is playing). This should give players a chance to take care of business without just spontaneously running off and needing to be DQd to stay on schedule. Good luck.
Rabbi Nevins
Smash Lord
gotta agree with everyone on this one my man. I dont know if it will work out, thats too much pressure for time. Maybe it would be best to tell the owner you have to reschedule for the next weekend or something
It is possible like scotu said, just dont let lain come and be strict about everything. But nobody likes such a rushed tourney, no time for funsies
It is possible like scotu said, just dont let lain come and be strict about everything. But nobody likes such a rushed tourney, no time for funsies
SCOTU
Smash Hero
idk, personally a briskly moving tourney that ends at 7 sounds a lot more appealing to me than one that starts at 11 and goes to midnight. Long *** tourneys are a real pain in the ***. Shorter ones let you actually do more than just the tourney that day. Besides, while doubles is in the 2nd half of it's bracket and when singles is in it's latter half/third, there should be plenty of time for friendlies amongst people not still in the tourney. But, hell, I'm not actually going to this, so it doesn't matter to me.
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Even using scotu's model, I still feel that even if 7 hours is doable... its going to be very rushed. Esp since Rizk isn't as experienced a T.O. as Scotu is. Tech Chase isn't going, Ori maybe going, but thats about it for the experienced side of Michigan T.O's.
I hope the tournament ends out well, but I'm going to remain skeptical.
I'll go to this is lain goes/drives me.
I hope the tournament ends out well, but I'm going to remain skeptical.
I'll go to this is lain goes/drives me.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
I think I know what you guys are saying and appreciate the help. I would move it next weekend but people already took time to come here and plus im going to Chicago next weekend. Hopefully people bring setups as will I.
Rabbi Nevins
Smash Lord
im hypocritical because to be honest the fact that it ends at 7 made me want to go a lot LOL. Scotu you are correct, now I can actually do something other than smash on a saturday! woo!
Rizk I beleive ori and I will be going (and taking teams? ), we can each bring at least 1 setup. Ill work on getting another.
Worst case scenario rizk, is that you have to pass of the baton when it comes to running the tourney at 7 when you have to leave. If its still not over you could tell ori or me or whoever to just finish things up for you. I know thats not something we should have happen, but worst case yknow
Rizk I beleive ori and I will be going (and taking teams?
), we can each bring at least 1 setup. Ill work on getting another.Worst case scenario rizk, is that you have to pass of the baton when it comes to running the tourney at 7 when you have to leave. If its still not over you could tell ori or me or whoever to just finish things up for you. I know thats not something we should have happen, but worst case yknow
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Rabbi like I said before, you da man for real lol. I beileve I read that Ori will definately be coming because his Pokemon tourney that he was gonna attend, he can't attend anymore. So if you guys both come and bring setups it will be ****. I'll be bringing mine as well. Annoying thing is that the smallest tv I have is still pretty big and heavy lol. Dw my enormus muscles with do
Also btw, will I be bringing the laptop? Or should I rent one in gameyard?
Another thing, worst case scenario yeah you or Ori since he is more expericenced at hosting will be taking over to tweek and finish things up. Hopefully we don't run past 7 but its okay. Nobody should feel rushed because I already know their will be plently of time.
Also btw, will I be bringing the laptop? Or should I rent one in gameyard?
Another thing, worst case scenario yeah you or Ori since he is more expericenced at hosting will be taking over to tweek and finish things up. Hopefully we don't run past 7 but its okay. Nobody should feel rushed because I already know their will be plently of time.
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
are people going to this tourney? I feel like it could be a really good event, despite the reputation of the venue and the drama that's recently spouted on the Big MI.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Oh there's new drama? I haven't been keeping up to date lately.
**** yeah I got a ride from LOE1.
Does the venue have any spare TVs? I might bring my Wii/Brawl
Does the venue have any spare TVs? I might bring my Wii/Brawl
zyth
Smash Lord
Apasher ur in Southfield? wow didnt even notice before
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Apasher I don't think so because they are HD. Also I dont know why, but right now I play Smash on my 50 inch Panasonic plasma and there is ZERO input lag. I dont know why this is but its cool.
tbh guys this event CAN be successful. If we just put our past with Gameyard behind we can actually have fun at this and make it work out. Rizk, I would also be glad to help you, whether its seeding or making sure people play their matches before smoke breaks etc.
And Marco we got this
And Marco we got this
SCOTU
Smash Hero
Rizk, as far as the laptop goes, it doesn't really matter, but there are a few considerations. You will need to have Tio installed on it, so if a rented/borrowed laptop isn't supposed to have any installed programs on it, you're best off bringing your own. Also, you'll need to bring the tio file back with you after you're done, so if you borrow a laptop, bring a flash drive or something.
Since this is your first tournament, if I were you, I would get Tio now and run a few test tournaments with various numbers of entrants, various pool splits, and various different things in the bracket. You'll need to figure out a few things before hand to be absolutely sure you know what you're doing and have a plan. I recommend naming the entrants after numbers (e.g. 1-24) and always having the lower number beat the higher number. This not only gives you a good feel for how seeding works, but also lets you easily see if something has gone wrong.
1) First things first. Make sure you have a plan for registering people. You can't just show up and magically expect people to somehow be entered in an event that's all set up and you have their entry/venue fee. Every TO has a plan of how they're going to do registration. This can be as complex as a mandatory pre-registration form online, or printing out forms to be filled in with entry information, and passing those out with envelopes so people can put their money in those with the forms and then you can just sort through them afterwards, or all the way down to the simplest method of setting up a table ready to receive cash (maybe even with a cash box that makes it easy to make change; possibly bringing some of your own stuff to make change with, depending on your entry/venue fee combinations, $5s might be invaluable) making people form a line, and one at a time entering the information you need to in Tio and taking their cash then and immediately entering them into the events.
A major consideration here is also how to keep track of venue fees. There are 4 methods I can think of, all which have different dis/advantages.
- Remembering who did and didn't give you venue fees. Advantage: simple as hell. Disadvantage: I don't know how anyone can possibly get away with this w/o good reason to trust everyone there.
- Visually modify entrants who have paid venue fee (i.e. give them a wristband/stamp their hand). Advantage, easy to verify who has/hasn't paid. Disadvantage: Might be annoying for entrants.
- Use Tio's built in "House-Cut" functionality to just automatically charge people venue fee for entering singles. Advantage: good tool support, automated money tracking. Disadvantage: You'll miss people who only enter doubles (adding a House Cut on both events double-charges people who enter both).
- (The way I always did it) Add another "Venue Fee" event to your Tio tournament. Set the entry fee = venue fee, and add all people who have paid venue fee to that event. Advantage: Easy to verify people who have paid venue fee when adding them to a new event + full records of who paid. Disadvantage: Slightly more work for the TO.
2) Make sure you know how to use manual seeding to balance out pools. Also, have paper or pre-printed pool sheets + pencils/pens for people to locally record pool results for them to turn in when their pool is done. Also, make sure you know how to correctly handle ties in pools in Tio. Know what your rules are for pools tie breakers (afaik there's no standard listed in a ruleset; The ones I used-- Set wins > Game Wins > Head-to-Head game --and the ones Rob uses-- Set Wins > Head-to-Head --are the two most common).
3) Make sure you know how to promote people from pools into a double-elim bracket and carry over the prize pot to that event. Make sure you try this out with several different number of pools/number of ppl per pool. You'll quickly find out that for many numbers of pools tio won't automatically place people in the correct place in the bracket. Make sure you understand how seeding is supposed to work and make sure you know how to move people in the bracket to make it right. Many a time have I written out the bracket on paper in instances like this, and written in people on that bracket as things like 1A, 4B, etc. (where 1A = first seed in A pool, 4B = 4th seed in B pool) to ensure a correct spread of people and then just entered it in tio as i figure out what people correspond to which pool & seeds. This is the most likely thing to throw off an inexperienced TO in Tio.
4) Make sure you know how to schedule matches. Check out the Station Manager, and find out how to use that on bracket matches. Also note the view of the bracket that shows only "Current Matches" that will show you what is or can be playing right now. A watchful eye and knowledge of how to use these features is one of the easiest ways to ensure a smooth flowing, efficient tournament.
5) Not super important, but Tio allows you to set the number of games you play per set, and specify how many games are played in finals if those are different. If you want to keep track of this, find these features (and the option to ask for how many games were lost on a new result entry); they're pretty straight forward to use (e.g. right click on WF to set the number of games to 5)
These next few things aren't part of the same chronological order:
6) Before you start an event, double or even triple check that the money you have is the amount you should have.
7) After every major change in tio (i.e. entering pools results, creating a bracket, setting up seeding, etc) save your Tio file. After every 2-3 minor changes (i.e. entering a bracket result) save your tio file. Tio is far from the most stable of programs and tourneys are far from the most stable environments (i.e. tripping over power cords, etc). If you know to be saving all the time ahead of time, this can, and will, save you HUGE frustrations and potentially wasted hours, and possible errors. Just save. All the time.
8) If you don't know something about how Tio works and want to try it to find out: First, save the tio file. Then save it as a different file. Then make your test. If it works, save again over the original, otherwise reload the original.
Good Luck and Good Skill.
Since this is your first tournament, if I were you, I would get Tio now and run a few test tournaments with various numbers of entrants, various pool splits, and various different things in the bracket. You'll need to figure out a few things before hand to be absolutely sure you know what you're doing and have a plan. I recommend naming the entrants after numbers (e.g. 1-24) and always having the lower number beat the higher number. This not only gives you a good feel for how seeding works, but also lets you easily see if something has gone wrong.
1) First things first. Make sure you have a plan for registering people. You can't just show up and magically expect people to somehow be entered in an event that's all set up and you have their entry/venue fee. Every TO has a plan of how they're going to do registration. This can be as complex as a mandatory pre-registration form online, or printing out forms to be filled in with entry information, and passing those out with envelopes so people can put their money in those with the forms and then you can just sort through them afterwards, or all the way down to the simplest method of setting up a table ready to receive cash (maybe even with a cash box that makes it easy to make change; possibly bringing some of your own stuff to make change with, depending on your entry/venue fee combinations, $5s might be invaluable) making people form a line, and one at a time entering the information you need to in Tio and taking their cash then and immediately entering them into the events.
A major consideration here is also how to keep track of venue fees. There are 4 methods I can think of, all which have different dis/advantages.
- Remembering who did and didn't give you venue fees. Advantage: simple as hell. Disadvantage: I don't know how anyone can possibly get away with this w/o good reason to trust everyone there.
- Visually modify entrants who have paid venue fee (i.e. give them a wristband/stamp their hand). Advantage, easy to verify who has/hasn't paid. Disadvantage: Might be annoying for entrants.
- Use Tio's built in "House-Cut" functionality to just automatically charge people venue fee for entering singles. Advantage: good tool support, automated money tracking. Disadvantage: You'll miss people who only enter doubles (adding a House Cut on both events double-charges people who enter both).
- (The way I always did it) Add another "Venue Fee" event to your Tio tournament. Set the entry fee = venue fee, and add all people who have paid venue fee to that event. Advantage: Easy to verify people who have paid venue fee when adding them to a new event + full records of who paid. Disadvantage: Slightly more work for the TO.
2) Make sure you know how to use manual seeding to balance out pools. Also, have paper or pre-printed pool sheets + pencils/pens for people to locally record pool results for them to turn in when their pool is done. Also, make sure you know how to correctly handle ties in pools in Tio. Know what your rules are for pools tie breakers (afaik there's no standard listed in a ruleset; The ones I used-- Set wins > Game Wins > Head-to-Head game --and the ones Rob uses-- Set Wins > Head-to-Head --are the two most common).
3) Make sure you know how to promote people from pools into a double-elim bracket and carry over the prize pot to that event. Make sure you try this out with several different number of pools/number of ppl per pool. You'll quickly find out that for many numbers of pools tio won't automatically place people in the correct place in the bracket. Make sure you understand how seeding is supposed to work and make sure you know how to move people in the bracket to make it right. Many a time have I written out the bracket on paper in instances like this, and written in people on that bracket as things like 1A, 4B, etc. (where 1A = first seed in A pool, 4B = 4th seed in B pool) to ensure a correct spread of people and then just entered it in tio as i figure out what people correspond to which pool & seeds. This is the most likely thing to throw off an inexperienced TO in Tio.
4) Make sure you know how to schedule matches. Check out the Station Manager, and find out how to use that on bracket matches. Also note the view of the bracket that shows only "Current Matches" that will show you what is or can be playing right now. A watchful eye and knowledge of how to use these features is one of the easiest ways to ensure a smooth flowing, efficient tournament.
5) Not super important, but Tio allows you to set the number of games you play per set, and specify how many games are played in finals if those are different. If you want to keep track of this, find these features (and the option to ask for how many games were lost on a new result entry); they're pretty straight forward to use (e.g. right click on WF to set the number of games to 5)
These next few things aren't part of the same chronological order:
6) Before you start an event, double or even triple check that the money you have is the amount you should have.
7) After every major change in tio (i.e. entering pools results, creating a bracket, setting up seeding, etc) save your Tio file. After every 2-3 minor changes (i.e. entering a bracket result) save your tio file. Tio is far from the most stable of programs and tourneys are far from the most stable environments (i.e. tripping over power cords, etc). If you know to be saving all the time ahead of time, this can, and will, save you HUGE frustrations and potentially wasted hours, and possible errors. Just save. All the time.
8) If you don't know something about how Tio works and want to try it to find out: First, save the tio file. Then save it as a different file. Then make your test. If it works, save again over the original, otherwise reload the original.
Good Luck and Good Skill.
This is why Dan is the man.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
SCOTU is the Yoda of MI's Smash Scene.
Eddie G
Smash Hero
Put me down as a maybe, please.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Ohio maybe coming out?? HYPE!
Jiffyboob
Smash Lord
So this is the tourney someone mentioned.
Hmmmmm.....
Hmmmmm.....
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
LOL @ NEOH scoping things out.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Nicole name search bait activated.
Pimp Daddy Supreme
gio 2.0
i'd say every outcome other than a victory isnt decent
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
I agree with Pimp Daddy.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Lol, I can't wait till saturday xD.
Also Ori, I did mention my issue about me having to leave at about 7. Since you will be co-hosting with me, could you take over if the tourney isn't done by then? Also I need a laptop to borrow lol.
Edit: Also Ori, do you think you can throw together a quick banner for me for this tourney please? Doesn't have to be that special.
Also Ori, I did mention my issue about me having to leave at about 7. Since you will be co-hosting with me, could you take over if the tourney isn't done by then? Also I need a laptop to borrow lol.
Edit: Also Ori, do you think you can throw together a quick banner for me for this tourney please? Doesn't have to be that special.
What's The Point
Smash Master
I didn't see anyone post booty.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
DAMN NICOLE MIGHT COME? TECH you better cancel all yo **** and make this! Ohio and Missouri might show? Holy s**t this is getting hyped.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
That post I made talking about the first one
Also if you ever show up to MI for a tournament, I could house you. And because I like men, I won't hit on you or try to get the famous booty.
Rizk18
Smash Lord
Tech read my P.M asap!