Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[4nace]

Bump x

Does your hitbox register as an Xinput controller? If it does, and you can move around the menus but not in game, then set your dpad to move or run in the character options menu (on character select)

If it does not, try using this guide to set it up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/3lulul/by_request_of_ud4nace_an_updated_gamecube/

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Terotrous]

Game was very substantially changed today:

http://aetherboards.com/forums/threads/598

Most notable is this new jab cancel mechanic. I can't play around with it until tonight, but I assume you can do insane things with it. I'm particularly concerned about what Maypul may be able to do with her formerly godawful Jab now that she can conceptually combo into up light from close.

Also, yay, Pillar and double jump fixes. I knew there were some situations where I just inexplicably couldn't double jump.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

All this really changed is that maypul's extant jab->tilt combos are easier, orcane can have a real third jab (f or dtilt) instead of his setknockback one, and zburn's jabs are a DI mixup into jab3/utilt.

Oh and if you DI in on kragg's dash attack now he gets DA->jab->utilt, which is grody

 

[Terotrous]

All this really changed is that maypul's extant jab->tilt combos are easier, orcane can have a real third jab (f or dtilt) instead of his setknockback one, and zburn's jabs are a DI mixup into jab3/utilt.

Orcane Jab2 -> Dtilt seems amazing, particularly since Jab usually combos from Dash Attack.

Also looking forward to Forsburn Jab1 -> Ftilt / DTilt.

Oh and if you DI in on kragg's dash attack now he gets DA->jab->utilt, which is grody

Does anyone ever DI this move in? I can't see any reason why you would.

I suspect at most percents he'll still be limited to Dash Attack -> Ftilt, as before.

 

[Hylian]

The jab changes are pretty much the best thing ever. For Orcane they really really fill in an empty spot in his combo game. Spacing dash attack differently leads to different tilt combos now, and you can do things like fast fall dair to jab -> uptilt and other really fun stuff. Before I was a bit frustrated with orcanes combo game as people could counterhit out of his dair very easily, or just tech out of it but now that I have jab mix-ups it's way more consistent and fun. Allows for a lot more creative combos as well.

 

[kupo15]

Kragg:

Kragg players are also worried about their favorite beetle. To that I say, we aren’t impacting much today except we took a good hard look at his Pillar and tried to hit at some of the campy strategies both on stage and off stage. We also looked at Down Special which has the ability to slow down a match greatly due to how safe it is.

• The Pillar will now start falling under the weight of players. One and a half seconds after spawning, the pillar will begin to slowly descend if any player or rock is sitting on it. This prevents players from camping on a pillar below the stage line.
• The Pillar can now be destroyed on the way up, causing Kragg to go into fall state. This will force Kragg to be a bit more careful about when he uses his Pillar on stage and will also allow players to counter the Pillar with a projectile if they can make a good read.
• Kragg’s Down Special Recovery has been increased from 12 to 16 frames.
• Kragg now has an appropriate amount of Parry Stun if Down Special is parried allowing it to be punished.
• Bug Fix: Kragg can no longer tech while holding a rock.

Are you kidding me? Now its 4 frames slower to get out of which effects followups and parring it is now guaranteed punishable with longer immobility? Down b isn't even a problem, and I'm not sure why they think it still is overpowered to need this change. A better solution is to give him more start up lag and remove the parry.

I'll check it out in realtime but a double dose of nerfs is just overkill in my opinion and isn't a good way to approach fixing this "problem"

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

It still true combos on perfect away DI, man. The other 'nerf' is what amounts to a bugfix. This is a tiny change that makes a literally 0 risk move a low risk move.

Terotrous, fburn's jab 1-dtilt has worked literally forever. Also DI mixups exist, assuming people DI everything perfectly all the time is silly

 

[Terotrous]

Just played a bunch of matches of the new patch. Jab combos are interesting, but I don't think they actually change things that drastically, most characters just get slightly better combos at low percents. Maypul Jab1, jab2, forward light is sick, though, it's like a proper jab string for her.

Forsburn also feels SO MUCH BETTER now that Jab1 no longer pops them up, as it seems like Jab2 is now harder / impossible to tech in many situations as well. Thank you based devs. I was wrecking everyone with him tonight, lol.


As per Kragg down B, it may have been slightly overnerfed. You definitely don't want to use it at max range now as it is very easy to parry, but it's still decent at close range. Did you know that if you do it on the edge of a platform, the spikes appear on the ground? Might be useful for catching people off-guard.

 

[kupo15]

It still true combos on perfect away DI, man. The other 'nerf' is what amounts to a bugfix. This is a tiny change that makes a literally 0 risk move a low risk move.

Terotrous, fburn's jab 1-dtilt has worked literally forever. Also DI mixups exist, assuming people DI everything perfectly all the time is silly

I still think there were better ways to achieve the same effect they wanted to do given the type of character he is. Adding more startup frames makes it low risk as well without the need of double nerfing. I would think the dev team would want to keep that move powerful and rewarding but more difficult to pull off as in requiring the player to get a good read instead of being able to spam the move.

If that is the case then the bigger startup does exactly that. The way it was nerfed does more damage to it than a tiny change of "risk" since parries are so lenient in this game

What is the other nerf that was a bug? Neither frame data nor extended parry stun sounds much like a bug to me

Also not sure why Maypul got a 3 frame jab now, she is already pretty fast not sure why she needed to be faster :shrugs:

Tetrous: Yup that is a neat mechanic. Go to the harbor and stand on one of the middle platforms and try it. Up down up hahaha

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

His downb used to not correctly stun him on parry due to how parries are by default calculated; if you parried the third spike it would literally only stun him for the duration of hitlag. That's a bug, imo.

I really, really think you're overexaggerating this nerf. It's still a super good move that forces your opponent to never, ever jump at you if you're under a platform, and true combos into aerials on all DI.

 

[kupo15]

Oh I see. But did it not include the hitlag frames because he was able to move again before that 3rd hit came out? This is my thinking as to how this bug slipped by as it is a special case making a projectile act like melee. I'm not positive when he comes out of end lag though so I could be wrong

I think you are underestimating the potential the parry has to just shut this move down because the window on it is so big. If they haven't already people will practice the parry and be able to parry the move every time because the timing of the move is predictable

And you aren't correct about the true combo on all DI. You are probably right it does that if you hit with all 3 hits however it doesn't combo on away di if you just hit the 3rd hit. Just using the 3rd hit is his safest and most viable option with the move as well. If you are close enough to hit with all 3 it's risky to use the move because it's somewhat slow.

Also the hit boxes of the first 2 aren't polished enough to reliably connect all 3 in some situations. I see other characters getting hitbox range buffs and I think kragg could use some more polish there as well

 

[Terotrous]

Played a bunch of matches vs Kraggs last night. Parried down B a few times. First of all, it's not quite as easy as you're suggesting, basically it's only simple to do at max range, at shorter range you either need insane reactions or prediction. Also, when you parry it, Kragg will usually be some distance away, so the reward is not as high as parrying a smash attack or something, with most characters I was only getting dash attack or forward light as a punish.

The move is definitely still usable, you just can't overuse it. Mixing it in with rocks is still effective.


Anyway, overall, I'm really happy with this patch. I feel like the cast is very close to equally viable now. Oddly enough, while I predicted Maypul would get the most out of Jab cancels, I think she may actually get the least, the characters who benefited the most were definitely Forsburn and Orcane, and they needed it. I also no longer feel like a scumbag while playing Zetterburn, those damage nerfs reigned in his craziness enough that he now feels in line with the rest of the cast.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

You can't parry in the air, man. It's still a fantastic anti air and anti approach.

I haven't tested comboing on away DI but the devs told me that the current endlag was chosen to maintain that specifically.

 

[kupo15]

I'm assuming you are referring to in person as I dint think you would bring up online debate. I agree that the early hits are harder to parry but still, doing it that close to someone is pretty risky not even thinking about parry.

I'm more concerned with just the last hit getting hurt by this change. As that is a good way to use the move. I don't see being able to be safe by spacing the move at max range being an issue. If it was safe up close that would be a problem but spacing 19th last hit takes more time

I like the other changes, I just didn't see a need for this as he wasn't overpowered

You can't parry in the air, man. It's still a fantastic anti air and anti approach.

I haven't tested comboing on away DI but the devs told me that the current endlag was chosen to maintain that specifically.

I know you can't parry in the air haha and sure I guess its a decent anti air? Though if you are playing against someone who is jumping around you all the time you aren't really going to be hitting him with it. The move is too slow if you do it near someone.

I played on Wed, got a lot of last hit moves that DIed away and could combo from it. Not like it has to combo it still was a good move to gain ground and be in a good position but it doesn't combo as well as you say it does on DI away

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Will it ever be open source?

 

[jhunter_d]

Hey guys and gals, it's been a while since I've been on Smashboards and been in this thread. I have a quick few questions:

• Does the Early Access build support DInput controllers?
• If not, has anybody had experience using a program such as joy2key, and if so, how much input lag is there?

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

no, don't use joy2key, use bigfriendlygames.net/2015/09/19/rivals-of-aether-on-steam/

 

[jhunter_d]

Wow, that link is perfect! Thanks! I'll probably be getting the game in that case.

 

[SmileyAja]

Stunning concept!

I'm eagerly awaiting for gameplay footage and more info on what platforms this is gonna release on.

As far as I can tell, the team is full of proffesionals!


I remember Super Smash Land, that was a pretty fun little game. The roster was quirky, but it was fun to play.


Looking forward to this!

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

This game is out on steam bro

 

[theopenlink22]

Some things that need to change:
1) Chat. You should make us able to have a chat-box type thing so we can talk with our opponents in-between matches. This is something smash doesn't have that would be fun.
2)Teching. If a player learns how to tech, they can win easily. You can tech ANYTHING. Jab, lilts, this needs to be changed.
3)Dash attacks? Maybe OP? tell me what you think.
4)People leave their computers on while in the searching for players screen, Ive encountered thehunderdaire about a hundred times.

I probably forgot something, tell me what you think.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

First has been planned forever. Second is just wrong, techs are super punishable, it's just a mixup instead of a true combo. Third is wrong, you just have to use stage positioning to punish them most of the time instead of shields; everyone just has sheik's DA from melee. The last is a more complex bug than you imply and is being worked on

 

[ChimaeraUltimo]

Some things that need to change:

4)People leave their computers on while in the searching for players screen, Ive encountered thehunderdaire about a hundred times.

*thehundrednaire.

I can no longer play online because that person is the only person I can find...

 

[Terotrous]

After I played Hylian we discussed the tech spam and he suggested that the game should probably have a missed tech window (ala Smash), so you couldn't simply mash the dodge button to guarantee a tech. I figure that would probably be a good idea, that way you'd need more awareness to escape situations.

 

[RoA_Zam]

After I played Hylian we discussed the tech spam and he suggested that the game should probably have a missed tech window (ala Smash), so you couldn't simply mash the dodge button to guarantee a tech. I figure that would probably be a good idea, that way you'd need more awareness to escape situations.

It already has that.

 

[Terotrous]

It already has that.

Can we get tech window frame data? (ie, number of frames before hitting surface that tech remains active, followed by lockout time if no surface is teched in that time).

If it is in the game I suspect lockout is quite short.

 

[SmileyAja]

I know now, but I'm broke and Android only. And as far as I know, it isn't fully complete yet.

 

[Steel Banana]

20 frame tech window, followed by a 20 frame lockout

 

[Terotrous]

20 frame tech window, followed by a 20 frame lockout

If true, lockout is only half of what it is in Smash (which is 20 frame active, 40 frame lockout).

Honestly, I feel like based on the pace of this game, the window should probably be faster than Smash overall. I would probably have leaned towards something like 10 frame active, 20 frame lockout myself. 20 frames is a long time in this game.

 

[kazehiro]

So I bought the game today and I'm having trouble with it. Whenever I go to the character select screen, the game crashes and this appears:

___________________________________________
############################################################################################
FATAL ERROR in Vertex Shader compilation
ShaderName: shColorReplaceBlendExt

D3DXCompile failed - result

############################################################################################

Can someone please help me? This computer is very new, so maybe I'm missing an important program? Reply, please.

 

[RoA_Zam]

So I bought the game today and I'm having trouble with it. Whenever I go to the character select screen, the game crashes and this appears:

___________________________________________
############################################################################################
FATAL ERROR in Vertex Shader compilation
ShaderName: shColorReplaceBlendExt

D3DXCompile failed - result

############################################################################################

Can someone please help me? This computer is very new, so maybe I'm missing an important program? Reply, please.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/3m98zx/psa_vertex_shader_crash_on_character_select/

 

[Terotrous]

So apparently Kragg was substantially nerfed in the latest patch:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/3normb/update_006_the_pillarpacolypse_hotfix/

Quartered hitstun time if a pillar hits a grounded opponent seems kind of nuts. I find pillar spamming Kraggs as annoying as the next guy, but this seems a bit excessive, it would make the pillar basically never worth using offensively.

The pillar change I would like to see is that if you parry the pillar, you should end up beside Kragg on top of the pillar, rather than on the ground beside the pillar.

 

[jhunter_d]

I dunno if anybody cares about this, but I will no longer be posting from this account. Instead, I will be posting from the name "Gravitas". Also, I'll probably be getting the new build soon, so I'll most likely be posting lots of GIFs and possible bugs (I doubt there are any).

 

[Shin Bowser Meow]

So apparently Kragg was substantially nerfed in the latest patch:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RivalsOfAether/comments/3normb/update_006_the_pillarpacolypse_hotfix/

Quartered hitstun time if a pillar hits a grounded opponent seems kind of nuts. I find pillar spamming Kraggs as annoying as the next guy, but this seems a bit excessive, it would make the pillar basically never worth using offensively.

The pillar change I would like to see is that if you parry the pillar, you should end up beside Kragg on top of the pillar, rather than on the ground beside the pillar.

I like the pillar not being able to be destroyed on the way up part of the patch. Being able to get punished for using pillar while my opponent is grounded is not fun. Kinda amazing if they are airborne though.

 

[Terotrous]

Can we talk about Treetop Lodge? IMO, this easily stands out as by far the worst stage in the game. It's just way too small and platforms take up like 90% of the stage. It's almost impossible to get back to the stage when you get knocked up in the air, especially if the opponent has something in the middle. Most of the other stages are fairly neutral, but this stage is clearly very heavily counterpicky. It really needs to be about 15% longer.


Also, Maypul is still broken as ****. Just played a moderately good Maypul player, and although he was nowhere near as good as Pyth, it was still very even due to her ability to just hit buttons with zero thought involved and get constant reward for it. Her frame data is just way too good, especially on her aerials, which you simply cannot ever escape from. By far the biggest culprit is Nair, which has far too much range and stays out way too long. Short Hop Fair to Nair is 100% inescapable, Maypul can just do a short hop Nair and it will beat all 3 tech options (as well as no tech), and combos into another Fair, essentially giving Maypul 100% free corner carry off any hit, and she can then immediately spike you at the edge and set up an extremely strong edgeguarding situation too.

The Plant is also a stupidly good element of stage control, and there's functionally no counterplay to it, as there's no way to unmark yourself and you can't destroy the plant, either, so Maypul can just camp the plant and force you to approach, and even if you hit her the plant will grab you. You should likely either be able to break the plant by hitting it, or hitting Maypul should destroy the plant.

It's also incredibly dumb that the seeds that fly up when the plant eats them also mark you.


Zetterburn and Kragg got their dumb spammy stuff fixed, she needs to be next. At the bare minimum, reduce active frames on Nair, reduce weight to around where Wrastor is, and do something about the Plant.

 

[kupo15]

I agree about maypul, it's way too easy to mark someone, I think marking with the side b should be removed. Maypuls element special is the only one that doesn't go away not counting Orcane.

Also her uptilt hit box coverage is ridiculous. Shouldn't be hitting in the empty space

 

[Terotrous]

Incidentally, I currently feel that Zetterburn, Orcane, Kragg, and Forsburn are all good, fair characters as of the latest patch. Kragg was somewhat dumb before with the degree to which you could spam pillar, but this has largely been fixed (in fact, it's possible they went too far, he seemed okay in 0.0.4). Zetterburn was also obviously a dumb character at launch, but the damage nerf largely fixed him as well. The two contentious characters are Wrastor and Maypul, who are actually similar in a lot of ways. The issue with both is they have very safe, braindead pressure, plus the ability to simply mash out of combos, allowing them to be played in a much more spammy / autopilot sort of way and still do very well.

Characters with extreme pressure and combos can be balanced, but it requires the ability to convert for huge damage against them once you do get an opening, however both Wrastor and Maypul have buttons they can spam to escape combos easily (jump for Wrastor, since he gets so many, Side Special / Down Light for Maypul), making them by far the hardest characters to convert for significant percent against, and they also have fairly braindead ways to get back down to the stage and escape juggles (neutral special for Wrastor, down special for Maypul). Compare Orcane, who also has great neutral (albeit, by being very slippery and hard to pin down rather than through pressure), but when you get the opportunity you can convert for a ton of damage against him as his escapes from combos are very bad, and thus he feels fair in a way that they don't.

Wrastor's saving grace is that his weight is very low, so he doesn't feel that broken, he's still a frustrating and dumb character to play against but he's probably not OP, but Maypul is basically the same character but with arguably even greater strengths (equal mobility to Wrastor even without Jet Stream, ridiculous stage control with Plant, amazing edgeguarding through strong attacks) and the same weight as the rest of the cast, and she feels very obviously busted.

I agree about maypul, it's way too easy to mark someone, I think marking with the side b should be removed. Maypuls element special is the only one that doesn't go away not counting Orcane.

Actually, I said this before, I think Side and Down B should continue to mark, but both probably need 1-2 more startup frames. This would also fix the Side B Side B Side B ground spam as well as limiting her ability to just mash out of combos.


Actually, I think those are probably the 3 fixes she needs:

- Side B and Down B have more startup
- Weight is reduced to a little more than Wrastor
- Plant is destroyed if the opponent hits it, unless it is fully grown, in which case it simply reverts to the "unfed" state, forcing it to be hit twice to get rid of it altogether.

Nair and Fair remain dumb, but at least now she faces the tradeoff of being light and subject to big conversions when she gets read / parried. Also, you can't simply camp the plant anymore.

Also her uptilt hit box coverage is ridiculous. Shouldn't be hitting in the empty space

View attachment 76940

That is pretty gross.

 

[Teran]

So just played my first match online and I styled so hard on his second stock he ragequit.

I like this game 10/10 perfect amount of water.

 

[Malkasaur]

Can't stand the changes to Kragg's Up B. It's such an unsafe move now. The fact that Kragg can get punished so easily by using it is stupid.

 

[Terotrous]

Can't stand the changes to Kragg's Up B. It's such an unsafe move now. The fact that Kragg can get punished so easily by using it is stupid.

I actually played a lot of matches against Kragg last night and I found it didn't make as much difference as I thought, possibly because this move had so little hitstun anyway that quartered hitstun is only a few frames less. Even before the patch, if I have my airdodge left I can almost always airdodge out of any possible followup, the only different I noted was that in some cases I could now just mash A to hit a free neutral air or something (which is kind of dumb).