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**RESULTS** Foxy's Bromonthly #1 - Raleigh NC - Feb 7 - Melee & Brawl+

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
I'll make a big write-up of notes and shoutouts tomorrow, and impressions.

I'll also post a results thread and start putting up videos.

But for now, I'll say that I started with $45, won $39, made $20-30 from house fees, and came out with only $28. What tha hayel? That's just messed up.

Edit: Also, 10-15, maybe even as many as 20 people who were supposedly coming didn't show up, so this definitely wasn't as big as expected. 22 players in Melee singles is nothing to scoff at, but it could have been 30+ and Brawl+ had most of its support from people who didn't show... also, we only had 4 Melee setups and 3 Brawl+ setups so things took way too long.
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
More tomorrow.

Melee Singles

1: Dr. Peepee ($66.00)
2: Kid 2 ($33.00)
3: Foxy ($11.00)
4: Lord Karn
5: Mohr
5: Mask
7: Darksyde
7: Zero
9: Behr
9: Malk
9: Ace
9: Stingers
13: Roy
13: Vilt
13: Dark Hart
13: Room
17: GofG
17: Max
17: Sekana
17: SampsUn
17: Uncle
17: Ashieteru


Melee Doubles

1: Zapfish Catdos (Malk and Peepee) ($36.00)
2: The Raging ? from Jupiter (Karn and Darksyde) ($18.00)
3: Ace and Kid 2 (Ace and Kid 2) ($6.00)
4: Those two guys (Foxy and Vilt)
5: MIchelle Branch and Vanessa Carlton (Dark Hart and Money Mike)
5: Team Vegeta FUISIOOOOOOOOOOOOOONbbb (Zero and Behr)


Brawl+ Singles

1: Foxy ($27.00)
2: Zero ($13.50)
3: Lord Karn ($4.50)
4: Stingers
5: Vilt
5: Neko
7: Ashieteru
7: SampsUn
9: Roy


Brawl+ Doubles

1: D0minating Largesse loL! (Dr. Peepee and Malk) ($35.00)
2: The Kids (Kid 2 and Stingers) ($15.00)
3: The Dominating Largesse (Karn and James)
4: Those two guys (Foxy and Vilt)
5: Troublesome Demons (Neko and Ashieteru)
 

Vilt

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
1,481
Location
Greensboro, NC
I wanna play Oli in +

should be fun
no you don't. o.o seriously. pikmin pluck comes out at a pikmin a second. for some odd reason, even tho i'm not awesome Oli player, Oli in brawl+. i cant combo with. and just gets *****. maybe its just me. but the slow *** pikmin pluck bothers me.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Fine we will fix it. You don't have to bark at us. We never said "here is a completed brawl+ without changes" We also can't say "hey hacker, make this now." We don't get codes instantly....

geez
I wasn't trying to come off as barking. I just feel like this is a very large oversight in the way this codeset was put together, and I felt like no one was being particularly vocal about it, which bothered me. If there's an alternate solution, then fine, I await it, but until then, I don't find the hitlag modifier to be sufficiently warranted.

As someone who frequently embarks on creative endeavors, may I offer the friendly advice that you prepare yourself for all manner of critique, with all manner of moods. Being offended by the fact that I perceive a flaw in your work will get you no where, whether I am very vocal about the flaw, or if I'm just mentioning it as something you might want to consider.
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I wasn't trying to come off as barking. I just feel like this is a very large oversight in the way this codeset was put together, and I felt like no one was being particularly vocal about it, which bothered me. If there's an alternate solution, then fine, I await it, but until then, I don't find the hitlag modifier to be sufficiently warranted.

As someone who frequently embarks on creative endeavors, may I offer the friendly advice that you prepare yourself for all manner of critique, with all manner of moods. Being offended by the fact that I perceive a flaw in your work will get you no where, whether I am very vocal about the flaw, or if I'm just mentioning it as something you might want to consider.
Yea sorry about that. Stressful times....
 

Vilt

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
1,481
Location
Greensboro, NC
Oh yeah SHOUTOUTS!

ph00t: Good **** in that teams match. ZSS scareds me bro. o.o
Karn: Love that yoshi. :O Keep playing that good.
PP: >:D Love you bro. Gotta play some more next time.
Ace: Nothing more to say than watch out for those missles. XD Oh and GANON!!!!
Stingers: **** that Wario. Play that Kirbster. Too good.
Jim: 3 stocked your Snake. xD Only in Brawl+. xD But good ****. I loved our dittos.
Malk: **** you and that Sheik. My moves should have never hit at match. MalkChocolate!
Foxy: >.> MK ban xD. Nah but good stuff. Next time you go MK i'm punch you.
DH: xD wtf man. You got lucky that last MM. Pound rest. XD
Everyone esle: >.> S my D. jk jk Love you guys. xD
 

Malk

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
2,006
Location
Raleigh, NC
I do not. All complaints considered, ZSS is still the very top tier, and doesn't need special changes to make stronger. That's just dumb. It would be like a code weakening metaknights mach tornado and a bunch of metaknight mains crying about it until it was made broken again.
 

lord karn

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
4,324
Location
Raleigh, NC
I do not. All complaints considered, ZSS is still the very top tier, and doesn't need special changes to make stronger. That's just dumb. It would be like a code weakening metaknights mach tornado and a bunch of metaknight mains crying about it until it was made broken again.
malk come in my bedroom real quick
 

kupo15

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
7,002
Location
Playing Melee
I do not. All complaints considered, ZSS is still the very top tier, and doesn't need special changes to make stronger. That's just dumb. It would be like a code weakening metaknights mach tornado and a bunch of metaknight mains crying about it until it was made broken again.
That was the mentality I had with the issue tbh. I even tried ZSS out and was able to combo after the Dsmash. But I don't know...
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
This was fun. Thanks for hosting Foxy. I'm not so big on shoutouts but here goes

Jim - once again, great games dude. team Ganon was too much fun haha. nice work in singles!
Mohr - 5 misfires in one match haha, great games as always brotha
Karn - 4th place with Mewtwo! hell yeah.
James - thanks broddy, no problem at all. glad I stayed a bit longer. fun times
Vilt - fun games man, nice missiles haha. the friendlies were too good
PP - nice work as always, hopefully i'll see you again at billfest
Mask - your falcon is sick dude. I look forward to playing with you again
BEHR - fun games man, we gotta get some more friendlies in next time
Zero - nice roy! I need to practice :D

Hopefully i'll see you all at License to Bill.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
I do not. All complaints considered, ZSS is still the very top tier, and doesn't need special changes to make stronger. That's just dumb. It would be like a code weakening metaknights mach tornado and a bunch of metaknight mains crying about it until it was made broken again.
Mach tornado is a completely different monster, because the move starts quickly, ends quickly, and has stupid priority. Dsmash starts up slowly, can be punished if whiffed or PSed, is susceptible to roll-dodges because it doesn't hit behind, and doesn't actually have priority. You can't clank it. Even if you land it, a hitbox that's out at the same time can still hit you, negating the effects of the hit. It's not exactly a low-risk move. Calling dsmash broken to defend the idea of nerfing it completely ignores the flaws that are obvious to someone who plays the character. Paralyzer is even worse off. It's slow, barely has any stun time uncharged, has a lot of after lag, and can be PSed easily on reaction. No one in their right mind would call this move broken.

So I don't even want them to be broken, because they aren't and there are a lot of ways to deal with them. I just want them not to be bad. Dsmash is mediocre now. Paralyzer is just plain bad.
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Guys, if you recorded anything that you want or remember what it was, let me know! It's hard to identify ever match in a 10-hour recording.

Phoot, being a ZSS main in vanilla-brawl and using her a lot on Brawl+, I can say that I don't think she needs special treatment in this situation. Honestly, she has more than enough tools. So she doesn't play with the same focus as in regular Brawl - a lot of Brawl+ characters don't. The dsmash even has enough stun to combo out of just one, I usually do it into a grab (and down throw is her best combo starter, and still would be even if dsmash were buffed).

A major goal of Brawl+ is to make as few character-specific concessions as possible. It's a new physics engine and a new game, so there's no way you can expect or hope that characters will have the same strengths and weaknesses. For example, when addressing Sakurai and the developers of Brawl, we can say plenty along the lines of "they made it far too floaty," "the airdodge is unnecessary," or "the low hitstun is ridiculous." However, it's ungrounded to say "the developers were stupid for not making Sheik's fair and Jiggs' rest as broken as they were in Melee." With a new game comes different character traits.
 

onlymaskde

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
1,039
Location
Broboro, NC
Guys, if you recorded anything that you want or remember what it was, let me know! It's hard to identify ever match in a 10-hour recording.
-winners semis vs PP
-mm with dark hart
-Falcon ditto mm with PP
-me+Ace vs Mohr and Behr teams, double DK/double Bowser
-mm with zero

I think that's all.


Karn: I love your big **** and sick Yoshi
Ace: I had a lot of fun playing with you and Mohr when Brawl+ was starting.. great games, dude. You and Mohr make some awesome sound effects and other noises. WAHAH
PP: our Falcon dittos were really good; I enjoyed them a lot. Thanks for the pointers you gave me. It was nice seeing/playing you again. Hopefully it won't be too long until we can do it again.
Jim: I love your Ganon. I wish we could have played more aside from our tournament set.
phoot: whoa, we actually played! It's awesome that you show up to Melee stuff, bro. Thanks for all the hugs and love. :)
Lucas: good **** in teams for taking my stock. Our team name was hot.
Matt: our photoshoot was pretty ****ing sexy. We're sexy.
Foxy: thanks for hosting, and I'm sorry I was acting like a little ***** with Brawl+ when it was getting late. We never had our mm, but we still played a bit. Work on your Falcon and be a man in tournament.
Josh: your Falcon is incredible, dude. Come to more stuff. I want to play you more and we should definitely team sometime.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
So, besides the ZSS complaint, is there anything else you guys felt was missing? (We know about bigger tech window and aerial momentum). If not, then telling us how you feel about the character you played as would be just as good. :)
 

Sekana Katayama

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
3
BIIIIIIIIIIG IMAGE POST.
I love you guys, thanks for being so silly with the pictures! :)



































































EDIT: I've taken off the offending pics. :) Except one, but I couldn't even see you in that one and it's a pretty funny pic... so I hope you're okay with me leaving it in. ^_^


Hope I didn't kill anyone's loadspeed. Heh.
 

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
Wow. I am epic forum vigilante, Flamingo. Saving the SWF from menaces like NC Echo... xD

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:-You're next Dark Hart!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Umm....

1. NC Echo didn't do anything. It was ph00t, Malk, and PP all on his account.
2. wtf why would you get me and infraction? I have to watch out before I get banned bro. I now have 5 points because of you.

Guys, if you recorded anything that you want or remember what it was, let me know! It's hard to identify ever match in a 10-hour recording.
Bracket matches: (All of them had commentary)
Me vs. Josh (Darksyde)
Me vs. random Falcon
Me vs. Jim (me getting *****...)

Money Matches: (All of them had commentary)
Me vs Foxy (I know you want that one up
Me vs Karn (I know you want that on up, too)
Me vs Zero
Me vs Vilt 1
Me vs Vilt 2
Me vs Mask

Umm... :
A lot of matches of me versus BEHR, Darksyde, and Jim (I think the ones with Jim have commentary) were recorded. The teams matches at the end were Me and Darksyde (Knor) vs. Malk (Shek) and Jim (Cool)

That's all I remember.
 

BEHR

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
5,371
Location
NC
Me ****** PP that was on the Big Screen I think it was recorded.

and my Matches with Lucas. :3


Shoutouts later.
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
WARNING: large wall o' text only for Brawl+ dewds

While I wait for videos to compile I'll write stuff about Brawl+:

In terms of physics, the game felt pretty good. Lots of stuff feels really broken, and in high-level play that turns a lot into just spacing to avoid said broken attacks (like Wario's dair) but in that essence I suppose it's not a whole lot different from Melee. Even in the small amount of entrants (5 teams, 9 players in singles, most people who wanted to play Brawl+ didn't come) there were a number of different successful characters. Ganon, Yoshi, Pit, Lucario, ZSS, Marth, Wario, Jigglypuff, Peach, and Metaknight were all represented.

Doubles was first, and I teamed with Vilt (maining Ganon). We were going to go double Ganon but I got cold feet and was scared about getting combo'd as Ganon, so I went Jiggs instead (also as I had just placed 3rd in Melee with her). From probably 7 tournament sets with Jiggs in Brawl+ I have some impressions. Her most useful tools are her uair combos, drill to grab (or just grab), and fair. If you land a uair in the air, at a huge range of percentages it almost always leads into 2 or 3 more uairs. At low percents on the ground, combining utilts with uairs can start a nasty aerial combo. Her grab is still really good, her pummel and throw damage are great (a grab is about 20%) and her dthrow can combo sometimes. Her drill with the autocanceling leads very nicely into grab, although honestly I didn't make use of this nearly as much as I should have (and do in vanilla). Her ledge camping is still good, drill is great.

My biggest impression of Jiggs is the huge power of her fair. It seemed to literally have much more knockback than even her fsmash. Fair just had huge power and I killed with it almost exclusively. I also got a few combos of 3-4 fairs off the stage for a kill, it chains well into itself.

After being knocked into losers' pretty harshly by Zero (with Lucario and Pit) and decided to screw it all and see if I could come back and win with Metaknight. Now, up until then I had played him a couple of times but never really wanted to test how broken he was - I always assumed he wasn't too good, just that his up b was still amazing, but who would ever go 100% in a friendly with MK just to see his boundaries? In my first set with him I 3-stocked and then 1-stocked Vilt, so I didn't feel too overpowered.

Then I had losers' finals with Karn (who used Yoshi). It took him most of the first match to realize that he had a grab release infinite on me, and the crowd went wild when he got a spike kill from it. He also used it in his counterpick on Castle Siege (which oddly wasn't frozen, even though it should have been) and used it for two kills on the walk-off transformation. The set was pretty hardcore, I won 2-1 or 3-1 (can't remember if we did best of 5 for the winners'/losers' finals or not).

Then I had about an hour of playing grand finals with Zero's Lucario... first set went to 5 matches, about 6 minutes each, and the second set finished in 4 matches. Every win was a 1-stock (until the last match). Through this set I really learned how to play Metaknight perfectly at grand-finals level, so here are the strats I used:

-Dash attack into up-b: dash attack was one of the few things I could do that Zero wouldn't punish perfectly. I could spam it a lot back and forth until it landed, and then pop an up-b. It's a guaranteed combo. Unfortunately, with good DI up-b still doesn't kill very early (took me probably 150% to kill with it) so this combo wasn't too broken, it was just very useful and safe.
-Dtilt and ftilt: Surprisingly, this was still really effective. With the less shield-based game, they are more of a surprise. And with the damage of the ftilt, it's quite a good tool. Dtilt-ftilt combo either gives solid damage from a safe range (out of grab range) or supplies strong shield pressure.
-Dthrow: Against a few characters I played, this was a chain-throw; against others, it can be a tech-chase. With a floaty character like Lucario, however (and Zero's upwards DI to escape a possible chain-throw) I could guaranteed combo it into a full-jump fair, which lead to other combos. Unfortunately, landing grabs was extremely hard and I maybe got 10-15 in the 9 matches of the finals.
-Dsmash: I actually spammed this a lot, especially after spotdodging an attack. It hit not too often, but when it did it counted and if it didn't it had low enough lag that Zero couldn't do anything in time from his shielding position (thanks to shield stun). Dsmash wasn't insanely broken, but it is a very, very nice tool and is especially good out of a dash (I used dsmash out of dash a number of times when I needed to punish a fall or lag that was far away from me).
-Fair: This was probably the best thing I started to use. Fair combos almost always into itself 2-3 times, and then into up-b. Therefore I could get dthrow-fair-fair-fair-up b for 30-40%, and early lead-ins for kills on close wall stages.
-Tornado: Well, it got better. The hitstun means that if you get caught, you're in for guaranteed 10-15%, which is great for the priority and safety. I always felt like I could have used this more and been more gay, but for what it's worth I did use it extra whenever I remembered, which was often. The reason I don't label this as insanely broken is because Zero, being a very very good player and a very aware player, was able to punish any random uses. Any time I used it without planning to punish lag or as a surprise, he either shielded the whole thing and punished, or used an fsmash/aurasphere/dair to hit me out of it. I was punished tons of times for using it.

My game pretty much consisted of going for grabs when I could, comboing fair and up-b, and spamming dash attack. That makes it sound a bit simple, and against Zero's Lucario it took a lot of focus and effort, but that's just what my play consisted of.

One last note about MK, stage picks: After my first set playing with him I realized that up-b would be a great tool for early kills on stages with close walls. This made Warioware my #1 counterpick, where it was easy to combo fairs into up-b for a 60% kill, and Green Greens my #2 counterpick, which obviously has very close sides as well.
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
So far I've gotten maybe 6 sets out, doing our money match right now... I figure I'll spend today getting everything I can figure out, and then I'll just post who's playing with what tags in the matches I've got left and you can figure it out.

I think commentary is going to be ridiculously hard to figure out and sync, though.
 

BEHR

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
5,371
Location
NC
So far I've gotten maybe 6 sets out, doing our money match right now... I figure I'll spend today getting everything I can figure out, and then I'll just post who's playing with what tags in the matches I've got left and you can figure it out.

I think commentary is going to be ridiculously hard to figure out and sync, though.
You might see me wearing Box Tag,BEHR, or B Tag


and I play Regular Fox
 

onlymaskde

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
1,039
Location
Broboro, NC
So far I've gotten maybe 6 sets out, doing our money match right now... I figure I'll spend today getting everything I can figure out, and then I'll just post who's playing with what tags in the matches I've got left and you can figure it out.

I think commentary is going to be ridiculously hard to figure out and sync, though.
Most of the commentary on my matches was horrible. The only matches of mine that may have some decent commentary would be my Falcon ditto mm with PP and the winners semis with PP. Otherwise, I don't care for it too much and I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

In all my recorded singles matches I'm black Falcon. I didn't have my tag (Mask) on for maybe one or two matches, but I put it on for most of the rest of the matches recorded last night.
 

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
Anything with me had decent commentary, because people wanted me too lose. That's means people were making fun, which means it was funny.

Edit: While I remember, Stingers had a couple of tourney sets recorded with commentary.
 

Malk

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
2,006
Location
Raleigh, NC
Know what's really funny?
Foxy saying, and I quote, that he 'learned how to play metaknight perfectly at a grand finals level'


AND THEN GETTING BEAT IMMEDIATELY AFTER IN A MONEY MATCH by a character metaknight *****

wow this guy really is a fucin nub
 

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
11,251
Location
Death Row, North Carolina
But... what if it means people just wanted you to lose? 0_o
1. -_- umm... yea... it was funny. I was there, I heard it, you didn't, stfu
B. Seriously, stop being such a douche.

**** was so cash.
Snarf, why'd you leave so early?

Know what's really funny?
Foxy saying, and I quote, that he 'learned how to play metaknight perfectly at a grand finals level'


AND THEN GETTING BEAT IMMEDIATELY AFTER IN A MONEY MATCH by a character metaknight *****

wow this guy really is a fucin nub
:laugh: yea.

After Foxy won, PP beat him in a mm. Sooooooo good.
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
lol gais if you really think i was playing to win again PP there...

lolz

i just finished an HOUR of grand finals in a campfest, screw that ****

i didn't even use tornado once against PP, i knew i was just going to give him $5 from the beginning

yeah i know, no johns, but srsly gais

also marth is **** in b+

edit: also dark hart and malk, if you actually WANT to talk smack, i placed way higher than both of you in a game that takes a heck of a lot more skill, so if you want to call me a skill-less scrub for winning b+ with mk... yeah.
 
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