Redesigning

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#1
Hey guys, back at it with yet another “What would you do” thread. This time, I wanna know: if you were part of the dev team and you were to change the way a character plays, redesigning them, how would you do so?
I have no ideas
 

Sean²

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#2
Make it so Villager's pocketed projectiles can be thrown in any direction instead of just forward, or the intended direction of fixed-direction projectiles (like G&W's bomb)

Imagine a pocketed Samus Charge Shot coming straight down at you while you're recovering. That would make the game better, right?
 
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#3
Make it so Villager's pocketed projectiles can be thrown in any direction instead of just forward, or the intended direction of fixed-direction projectiles (like G&W's bomb)

Imagine a pocketed Samus Charge Shot coming straight down at you while you're recovering. That would make the game better, right?
Sounds cool, but it would probably make players very mad xD
 
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#5
Have Yoshi be able to eat items. Also make his tongue longer. Marth's arm shouldn't outrange that ridiculously stretchy tongue. This has always bothered me.

Have Peach have at least one reference to Super Princess Peach, even if it's as simple as reskinning her parasol to Parry. Seems a shame she doesn't reference her first true protagonist role. Anger would be fun to incorporate too somehow. Watching the pure princess lose it would be incredibly amusing.
 
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#6
Make it so Villager's pocketed projectiles can be thrown in any direction instead of just forward, or the intended direction of fixed-direction projectiles (like G&W's bomb)

Imagine a pocketed Samus Charge Shot coming straight down at you while you're recovering. That would make the game better, right?
It would, if Samus could do it. It's pretty stupid that the developers haven't given Samus the ability to angle her Charge Shot. Sakurai must have only played the first Metroid game, since the second allowed Samus to shoot downward, and the third allowed her to shoot in eight directions. Here we are after five games, and R.O.B. can angle his Robo Beam. I just want to be able to shoot Charge Shot forward and diagonally up and down.
 

Jaro235

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#8
None of this would happen, but:

Make Yoshi’s tongue a tether and give him a new side B, give Palutena her custom moves somehow (I really miss Lightweight!), make Inkling alternates customizable, give Cappy a special move for Mario, give Link more Breath of the Wild moves, make Lucario’s Up B a little easier to control, have Little Mac regain his side B after he gets hit mid air, and give Dedede his back air from Brawl.
 
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#9
Redesign Meta Knight's moveset to he reflects all of his playable moves from the Kirby games he's playable in, give him a projectile (blade beam), and give him a final smash that isn't made up.
 

Krimnorr

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#10
I'd rework Little Mac. I feel like he isn't very productive, and newer players who pick him up are only taught half of the game; that being the ground.

Some of the large changes I have in mind are:
-Remove armor on all smash attacks
-up smash comes out 3-5 frames later, but deals more damage
-up b's distance is no longer reduced in the air
-side b is now regained after being hit
-down tilt will now properly combo into fair and KO punch
-all aerials have their damaged increased: fair deals 10%, bair deals 12%, dair spikes starting at 50% and deals 5% (boop), uair does 12% and has significantly more knockback at high%, and nair now deals 4%
-all aerials have better framedata in general
-KO punch no longer charges upon taking damage, but charges much faster when dealing damage
-KO punch has significantly reduced knockback


Mac can now fight in the air. Woo. Of course, I don't want him to be an aerial powerhouse; that's not his design. But I don't want him to be utterly useless in the air since that goes against Smash itself. To compensate for increased recovery and aerial game, Mac's ground game takes a hit.
 
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i am idiot

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#11
replace the cape on Mario's side b with cappy, give it the same function but it can reach further but is slower
THEN replace F.L.U.D.D with the cape spin jump from super mario world akin to his old down b
THEN replace his current d-air with the ground pound from odyssey (and make it spike)

give dk the barrel as his new recovery

links new grab will be a tether with the magnet ability in botw
his recovery will be the paraglider were revalis gale can propel him upwards

samus will get a crawl which will be the morph ball
her jab will be the mii gunners f-smash
samus can angle her charge shot

yoshi can now use his tongue to grab items

Kirby will get his Wii u dash attack back
his new recovery will be a spear spin from his spear inhale ability

Nerf pk fire to the point were it basically doesn't exist

bowsers side b can have a dash grab mechanic

sheiks ninja stars load quiker
zeldas speed is increased

just DE clone ganon
 

Call_Me_Red

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#13
I wrote about this recently in the Bayo forum, but I would completely redesign Bayonetta's moveset to match her games better.

1.) More weapons. Half the fun of her game is all the cool weapons you get to use. Scarborough Fair and Love Is Blue are cool, but I would love more variety.
2.) More emphasis on Wicked Weaves. There is nothing more satisfying than pulling off a sweet combo and then getting a giant demon fist to punch the bad guys. Yes, her smash attacks are Wicked Weaves, but it doesn't carry nearly the same weight. I would make her moveset so that once you finish a long chain of moves it would end in a WW. I'm not sure if this means having one input be several moves, or have a combo counter or something, but I want this. This way we can replace killing with cheesy off the side combos, to instead getting full combos that lead into powerful attacks. Requiring skill and damage.
3.) Give her the buffs she deserves, please Sakurai. Please.
4.) Different taunts based on how long you press the button, just like in her games.
5.) More creative alt costumes. She has costumes for several Nintendo characters already made. Give us some of those instead of the-same-costume-but-green.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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#15
Adjusting Yoshi's frame data would be on my list. While he may have above average weight, Yoshi's moveset and overall damage output seems more like something that a lightweight fighter would have; with attributes like that, less start-up lag would feel necessary.

Also, fix up the start-up lag for Yoshi's Egg Lay and grabs. I mean seriously, if Bowser can now grab fighters with Flying Slam on frame 6, shouldn't Yoshi's standing grab have the privilege of grabbing that early as well? It's not a tether grab, and the quick start-up would still be offset by the high ending lag amount if it misses. And of course, when you look back at the Yoshi's Island titles, the delay with using Yoshi's tongue is often short.

In regards to the throws themselves, tone down the BKB for the d-throw (a minimum of 80, since fighters won't enter a tumbling state if they take less than 80 KB units) so that Yoshi can actually perform a follow-up attack.
 
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#16
I have a whole series of posts for this. Some aren't finished, but most are. They go into a lot of detail and some are more extreme than others.

EDIT: More detail on bigger changes so you don't have to read through all of the collective text lol

:ultmario: Mario

  • DAir replaced with Super Mario Galaxy spin. Can use as a recovery move
  • New Side-B: Throws Cappy. If an enemy isn't hit, Cappy will become a temporary spring platform for Mario to jump on for recovery. If Cappy does hit an enemy, Mario will teleport next to them, allowing for longer combo chains

:ultdk: Donkey Kong

  • New Up-B: Shoots himself out of a barrel cannon
  • New-Side-B: Spawns a barrel. Can grab the barrel in a cargo throw and can move around and jump while holding it. Can be broken and made ineffective

:ultsamus: Samus

  • Forward Smash is Wave Beam from Metroid Prime and would be a projectile, Up Smash is Plasma Beam done in the same arcing pattern as now, and Down Smash would be Ice Beam towards the ground similar to Mii Gunner's, which freezes opponents.
  • All smash attacks gain new properties when at full charge. Forward Smash becomes homing projectile and goes through walls and floors, Up Smash gains vertical range and far more damage, and Down Smash leaves an icy floor to slide on for a couple of seconds
  • Neutral-B changed to Power Beam, a rapid fire projectile that can be charged
  • Side-B dynamically changes when holding a Power Beam charge, creating different Super Missiles with different effects
  • Down-B allows Samus to simply morph ball around for a while and choose between Power Bomb, regular Bomb, and Boost Ball functions


:ultkirby: Kirby

  • Inhale now reflects projectiles in the form of stars a la Kirby games. More powerful projectiles create bigger and slower stars. Stars are used more for combos than kills
  • New Side-B: Uses the Beam Whip. While in the air, can stay in midair for a few seconds and make the beam circle around him
  • Final Cutter is now a three part attack, with a forward thrust added in the beginning for better recovery. Can "grab" enemies for extra damage in the combo
  • Hammer Flip moved to Down-B and now has super armor throughout the charge
  • Stone moved to Shield-B and can now be used as a damage sponge


:ultjigglypuff: Jigglypuff

  • Can now jump during air attacks and special attacks (i.e. can lift upwards while in the middle of DAir)
  • Rest now deals half damage/knockback when used in a combo. In return, the rest time is only 2.5 seconds and can now heal
  • Removed shield break KO
  • Rollout replaced with Sing
  • Sing can now be used in three parts and is treated like a grab (goes through shields)
  • New Up-B, Gyro Ball. Causes Jiggs to have a metallic aura that causes all acceleration in the air to end. Can use again to launch upwards, dealing more damage depending on Jiggs' velocity before activating
  • Pummel now creates a flower, dealing damage over time. Does more damage per tick if used repeatedly

:ultdaisy: Daisy

  • Full de-echo-fication, too many details

:ultbowser: Bowser

  • New Side-B: Koopa Klench: Like Koopa Klaw from Melee, where Bowser grabs someone in place. However, you can then transition into any special move while holding them. Doing Side-B again will do the Flying Slam
  • Lots of extra shock waves on landing moves for extra safety

:ulticeclimbers::ulticeclimbers: Ice Climbers

  • Can "decouple" Icies, allowing you to control them separately for extra crazy combos
  • When together, moves have new properties if both Climbers hit

:ultsheik: Sheik

  • Bouncing Fish replaces Grenade
  • Bouncing Fish can now bounce between platforms, becoming stronger and stronger after each bounce
  • New Down-B: Creates a whirlwind around Sheik that deals damage over time to anyone near her. Duration of this whirlwind will pause so long as someone is in it. Can use again to push back enemies, dealing all cumulative damage it did to enemies all at once

:ultzelda: Zelda

  • Jab can now be held and aimed upwards for aerial defense
  • New Back Air: A very safe on shield and spammable double arm slash infused with magic. Meant as an approach tool
  • Din's Fire's "marker" now pushes back enemies. Used for defense
  • Nayru's Love grants full invincibility throughout the entire animation instead of just the beginning. It also creates a ring upwards, allowing for aerial defense

:ultdoc: Dr. Mario

  • Full rework
  • New virus system that creates a queue of red, blue, or yellow viruses depending on what move you hit with. Getting three of the same color in a row grants Dr. Mario with special buffs. New special moves completely remove the queue and the passive buffs for powerful effects

:ultpichu: Pichu

  • Full rework
  • All moves now hurt Pichu, barring Down-B
  • New DTilt, which allows Pichu to crossup opponents or retreat after the attack
  • New Neutral-B: Charge Beam: Pichu charges a thick electric beam that doesn't flinch but will grant him more power on all other moves for a short time. Beam "reflects" off of the floor and platform and can be aimed and held
  • New Side-B: Thunder Wave: Like Thunder Jolt, but cannot stick to floors and platforms and stuns
  • New Up-B: Volt Switch: Creates a hoop of electricity and allows Pichu to stay in midair for a while. If used again, will cause Pichu to teleport to the hoop
  • New Down-B: Wish: After a bit of time after using it, will heal Pichu for a good amount of health. Before it heals, can be "stolen" by the enemy and stolen back by Pichu ad nauseam, gaining more healing as it does

:ultganondorf: Ganondorf

  • Full rework, now uses dual swords to fight by default
  • All tilt moves and jab can be charged a la smash attacks
  • UTilt by default is faster and is more like its present self when charged up
  • Dash attack and Smash attacks use dual great swords and like Link's Forward Smash, can be used in two parts. The first parts are more for comboing
  • New DAir: A huge shockwave stall-then-fall. Can push away enemies in shield. Meant as a landing tool
  • New Neutral-B: Creates illusions of the dual swords that spin around, repelling enemies. Can be used again to return towards Ganondorf, bringing enemies along with them
  • New Side-B: Does a sort of auto combo move similar to Dancing Blade, but can float in all directions and does an explosion at the end that is stronger the further into the combo you end
  • New Up-B: Dead Man's Volley. Causes Ganondorf to float around freely, reflecting all projectiles from him. Works on a gauge system
  • Flame Choke moved to Down-B and now projects a magic hand to send the victim towards Ganondorf before slamming them

:ultroy: Roy

  • New dash attack: Slides forward with his sword and then uppercuts. The sliding is longer the longer the button is held
  • New BAir: a retreating thrust with Roy's Rapier (his secondary weapon in his games). Has no sweetspot/sourspot system
  • New Down Smash: Hits with the Sword of Seals on one side, and the rapier on another. Has different properties for both sides
  • Flare Blade can now be dashed out of forward and backwards to fake out opponents
  • New Side-B: Thrusts the secondary rapier three times very quickly. Goes through shields and ignores intangibility
  • New Down-B: Now counters with a medium range fiery projectile that stuns and deals damage over time. Also hurts Roy

:ultkingdedede: King Dedede

  • Inhale now goes through shields like a grab and Dedede can now hold projectiles in for a while after inhaling. Can also jump during Inhale
  • Gordo now always sticks to walls
  • Gordo now "triangulates" the knockback of whatever hits it, allowing for triangle combos again
  • Super Dedede Jump's ascent can now be directly controlled to be lower or higher
  • New Down-B: Shoots missiles from the Hammer like Masked Dedede, these missiles can be hit in midair and prematurely destroyed for less damage on the explosion

:ultolimar: Olimar

  • Included Rock Pikmin in the lineup. Special property is transcendent priority and cannot latch onto enemies
  • Purples can now latch onto enemies
  • All moves can now be cancelled into Pikmin Order to cause the Pikmin used by the cancelled move to still be first in line
  • Pikmin Pluck moved to Shield-B
  • Pikmin Throw moved to Neutral-B and can now throw in all directions, including up and down
  • New Side-B: Present Pikmin will "stand watch". If an enemy passes them, they will latch onto them like Pikmin Throw, but will cause them to flinch first. Used for defense

:ultlittlemac: Little Mac

  • New Star Punch system where any move used in a true combo or any move that hits in the midst of an enemy attack will grant a star. Can have up to three
  • All moves can be cancelled into a Star Punch that deals immense damage and slows time to allow for true combos to occur, translating into more stars for Star Punches
  • Grabs into aerials will always create opportunities for true combos
  • Aerials are all safe on hit
  • KO Uppercut moved to Shield-B
  • Slip Counter automatically gives two stars on countering


:ultbrawler: Mii Brawler

  • All 12 special moves reworked. Too many details
  • Can now dynamically switch between all 12 special moves mid battle


:ultbowserjr: Bowser Jr.

  • Can now float in the Kart similar to Peach, but in all four cardinal directions instead of only sideways
  • Up-B moved to Shield-B
  • Shield-B now allows Bowser Jr to exit the Kart permanently, giving a limited moveset without special moves or floating with more combo oriented aerials. Can enter Kart again by using Shield-B again
  • New Up-B: Throws two shells out of Kart similar to Super Mario Maker. Can use shells like items
  • Can now have up to two Mechakoopas out
  • Kannonball now bounces along its trajectory far more, making it useful from higher platforms and edge guarding
 
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Saikyoshi

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#17
I would at least tweak the numbers on the Echo Fighters, make them play more like the clones in Melee: identical animations, but still different playstyle. It happened with Dark Pit, why not Daisy and Dark Samus? I don't mind them being there, or even that they're echoes. I just wish there were separate reasons to choose them above their source character besides looks.
 

Ez Quinn

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#18
I’d change ivy’s Razor leaf to be more controlled like d3’s Gordo. And now that joker has a great tether as his standard recovery, there is no reason that ivy’s Can’t be that good to.
 

Quillion

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#19
If they were to change Ganondorf, I'd like them to keep the general moveset while changing the animations and adding properties without taking out the functions. Mainly, I'd rather have him a gimmick on some moves where if you tap a button, you get a weak attack, but if you hold the button down, you get the usual big hit.
  • Jab: Make it so that if tapped, it becomes the quick open hand strike, but if held, it becomes a rapid jab where he casts magic like Zelda or Mewtwo.
  • Up-tilt: Change it so that he holds a fireball in his hand above him. If tapped, it works like any other somewhat slow up-tilt. If held, he throws it into the ground to cause a massive, low-%-KO explosion like the current Up-tilt.
  • Aerials: Change up-aerial and forward-aerial into sword moves. Up-aerial looks out-of-place in his moveset, while adding another sword move on top of that would make his sword Smashes seem less out-of-place. They would have the same knockback as they are now, though.
  • Warlock Punch: If B is tapped, he does a quick backhand that can start combos and reflects projectiles like Mario's cape. If held, works as it does now.
  • Wizard's Foot: Make it so that he uses his Trident instead of kicking. Otherwise works the same.
  • Dark Dive: Make it so that Ganondorf dissolves into dark energy, then the "grab" becomes him possessing the enemy briefly, then jumping out.
Pretty good set of changes without going overboard, if I do say so myself.
 
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#21
Redesign Meta Knight's moveset to he reflects all of his playable moves from the Kirby games he's playable in, give him a projectile (blade beam), and give him a final smash that isn't made up.
Darkness Illusion isn’t made up, it’s from Star Allies, or at least it’s heavily based off of one of Meta Knight’s attacks from that game.
 

Xelrog

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#23
I wouldn't make any more than modest changes to any character, because doing so would greatly upset players of said character. Even changes like Ganondorf's new smash attacks stir up a lot, but taken in steps, it's a lot more digestible, less alienating, and healthier for the game than reworking characters from the ground up.

:ultganondorf: Neutral B, Warlock Punch, is nigh useless in combat, and only has style points going for it--and even then, the Falcon Punch is much more iconic. I would replace it with Dead Man's Volley, giving him a magic projectile. I think most all serious Ganon mains would appreciate the utility and not really miss the punch. Possibly replace Dark Dive (Up B) with temporary free flight to give his recovery some mixup, though it would be a shame to see the extra command grab go. Wizard's Foot (Down B) used in the air would be cool if it was his electric fist slam from Ocarina. Functionally the same, but a move from canon. A full rework would ruin him, though.

:ultdaisy: Replace turnips with something else (carrots?) and give them some property unique from Peach's again. Maybe remove the randomness? Remove her floating mechanic and give her a little extra speed/attack to compensate. Replace all slaps with punches. I'd like to replace Toad with a Dayzee and give it the Bubble Toad (Smash 4) effect of putting enemies to sleep as a counter, but some people have said a Dayzee would be weird, so I don't know.

:ultdarkpit: Slightly slower and stronger than Pit, a la Dr. Mario. I hear he uses a staff a lot in his game so I guess he should have that a little bit, too?

:ultdoc: Just give him Mario's Up B height. Please. Pleeeease.

:ultmarth::ultlucina: Totally fine.

:ultroy::ultchrom: Give Chrom the diagonal Up B that Ike had as a custom move option from the last game. Nerf him elsewhere if you need to but his recovery is unfun trash and he doesn't have Ike's side B as an option.

:ultryu::ultken: Totally fine.

:ultsimon::ultrichter: Make Simon the power-weighted guy and Richter the speedy, athletic one. I'd personally like if Richter kept the current moves and Simon's down air was replaced with a simple downward whip strike.
 

Quillion

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#24
:ultganondorf: Neutral B, Warlock Punch, is nigh useless in combat, and only has style points going for it--and even then, the Falcon Punch is much more iconic. I would replace it with Dead Man's Volley, giving him a magic projectile. I think most all serious Ganon mains would appreciate the utility and not really miss the punch. Possibly replace Dark Dive (Up B) with temporary free flight to give his recovery some mixup, though it would be a shame to see the extra command grab go. Wizard's Foot (Down B) used in the air would be cool if it was his electric fist slam from Ocarina. Functionally the same, but a move from canon. A full rework would ruin him, though.
I think beyond giving him a sword aerial or two, I think my idea of giving him tap/hold gimmicks for the "useless" moves and jab while just animation-revamping select moves would be better for adding functionality without taking much of it away.

:ultdarkpit: Slightly slower and stronger than Pit, a la Dr. Mario. I hear he uses a staff a lot in his game so I guess he should have that a little bit, too?
He actually doesn't; he most consistently uses the Silver Bow throughout KI;U.

Honestly, given that Sakurai is that game's creator, I'm kinda baffled that his Staff factors so heavily into his official art for Smash.
 

k1wi

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#25
I want a lot of what all the other yoshi mains want lol. And it's that yoshi should be able to grab items with his tongue. And like lowkey maybe even projectiles? Like it could kinda work like it does in the mario games where he can eat fire balls and spit them back out and stuff like that. So I guess it would kinda work like ddd's neutral b in a way.
 
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#26
:ultdaisy: Replace turnips with something else (carrots?) and give them some property unique from Peach's again. Maybe remove the randomness? Remove her floating mechanic and give her a little extra speed/attack to compensate. Replace all slaps with punches. I'd like to replace Toad with a Dayzee and give it the Bubble Toad (Smash 4) effect of putting enemies to sleep as a counter, but some people have said a Dayzee would be weird, so I don't know.
Honestly it's not that much weirder than her having a Toad partner. Just reminds me it's a shame she never was given a true friendly citizen species equivalent to that of the Toads and Lumas.

Extra speed and attack certainly fits Daisy's more aggressive character and would be a good compensation.
Alternative suggestion from me would be to replace the float with an extra jump to match Super Mario Run's 'unique' ability for her. Feels like Daisy should be more unique from Peach than Dr. Mario is from Mario.
 

Xelrog

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#28
Alternative suggestion from me would be to replace the float with an extra jump to match Super Mario Run's 'unique' ability for her.
I think that's just too obscure. It's not something she's known for, it's something they put in the game because they needed something, anything in SMR to make Daisy unique. It would also feel very strange as more than two jumps are currently reserved only for characters with flight capabilities, so Daisy having three would feel very out of place, I think.
 

volbound1700

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#29
Not a character, but I would redesign the single-player campaign to have spirits put together into a theme (like the SF stage) through the mode. For example, bundle the Mario spirits together in a Mario themed part of the adventure mode.

I would also have more bosses (especially from Brawl) and perhaps some platforming stages.
 

TheTrueBrawler

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#30
This is probably what I would do regarding a redesign. I focused on :ultmario: and :ultdoc: specifically.

:ultmario: - Full redesign. Cappy becomes a big part of Mario's move set this time around.

What makes Cappy so special is that he exists as a seperate entity. Any time Mario throws Cappy is thrown, Mario has very little end lag. Mario can move freely and even throw out other attacks before Cappy even returns to him. The downside to this however is that Mario can't use any attacks that require Cappy or his Side Special. Not every move involves Cappy, so capless Mario isn't completely helpless. Cappy in the meantime stays right where he was thrown. He will return to Mario whenever any player touches him or after three seconds from the moment Cappy left Mario's head.

While Cappy isn't on Mario's head, Mario can touch him to get him back. One of two things will happen depending on whether Mario's head touched Cappy or if any other part of his body did. If Mario's head touches Cappy, Cappy will be put on his head again seamlessly. If any other part of Mario touches Cappy, he gets a bounce off him, and then Cappy returns to him.

If another player touches Cappy, they get hit, and then Cappy returns to Mario regardless of whether or not Cappy was in motion. When in motion, Cappy packs the full punch. When standing still, Cappy packs around half the punch. When returning to Mario, Cappy doesn't even have a hitbox.

Anyways, here's the full move set:
Unchanged Move List:
- Dash Attack
- Side Smash
- Neutral Aerial
- Grab
- Pummel
- All Throws
- Floor Attacks
- Edge Attack
- Neutral Special

Jab Combo:
- First two hits are unchanged. Cappy comes in for the third. Unlike most moves unvolving Cappy, he does not linger around after this one and simply returns to Mario immediately.

Side Tilt:
- Swings with the hammer from Paper Mario in front of him. Can be angled.

Up Tilt:
- Throws Cappy upwards a bit.

Down Tilt:
- Throws cappy along the ground and in front of him.

Up Smash:
- The same as Up Tilt, but Cappy just doesn't stop moving. Can be used as an upwards moving projectile.

Down Smash:
- Swings with the hammer from Paper Mario in front of him and behind him close to the ground. Both hits are strong attacks that launch the opponent instead of them chaining into each other.

Forward Aerial:
- Throws Cappy in front oh him. Can't be used for a bounce without Mario's second jump or touching the ground.

Back Aerial:
- Same as Forward Aerial but with slightly more range and slightly less attack power.

Up Aerial:
- Swings with the hammer from Paper Mario above him.

Down Aerial:
- Same as Doctor Mario's Down Aerial spike, but it doesn't kill until much later on.

Side Special - Luma Spin:
- Mario uses the Luma that helped him in Super Mario Galaxy and the sequel to use a spin attack. It's a quick spin with low and fixed knockback. It has reflector properties. It will stall his midair time, but hinder his horizontal mobility. It has transcendent priority.

Up Special - Cappy Bounce/Super Jump Punch:
- Mario throws Cappy in a fixed pattern to give him a bounce worth of height. The move can only be used once. Mario must touch the ground, grab a ledge, or take knockback to get the move back. Mario doesn't go into free fall, so if he still has that second jump, he can use it to recover.

- If Cappy isn't on Mario's head when he preforms the move, the move turns into Mario's Super Jump Punch from Smash Ultimate. It gets as much height as Belay when there is only one Ice Climber making it near useless for recovery, but it's attack power is increased making it a more useful offensive tool.

Down Special - FLUDD:
- There is a tank indicator showing how much water Mario has in FLUDD. Use the move to charge FLUDD filling the tank. Mario doesn't put FLUDD away when the tank is full. If this move is used again with a full tank, Mario won't shoot the water on its own. While Mario has FLUDD out, the directional input the player presses will determine what happens. The move can be canceled by pressing any button.

- Press Left or Right on the Joystick to use the Squirt Nozzle. FLUDD will spray all the water in your tank in the specified direction pushing opponents away. Mario will turn around if he has to. Unlike previous titles, the water is less likely to push opponents upwards.

- Press Up on the Joystick to use the Hover Nozzle. FLUDD will have Mario hover in midair for a short period of time dependent upon the amount of water in the tank. The move gives zero vertical distance. The water spewed does not push opponents downwards. It can be canceled by executing any action, it will be canceled if attacked, and unused water will be reserved for another time.

:ultdoc: - Becomes the "Legacy Mario". He retains most of his attack power while gaining some of Mario's movement and attack speed. Many of the moves that got changed between Smash Melee and Smash Ultimate will get reverted to provide the fighter that Mario once was.
Forward Aerial:
- Has a spike hitbox for the first time.

Down Aerial:
- Reverted back to the twirl from Smash Melee and Smash 4, but deals more damage.

Back Throw:
- Reverted back to the Back Throw he had in Smash Melee and Smash 4.

Side Special - Super Sheet:
- Swings it in front of him again instead of upwards. Stalls his midair time for the first time, but like Mario's old and new Side Special, it practically cancels his horizontal momentum.
 
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Mewtwo

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
749
#31
I see there are some common ideas here but I wanted to add my two cents:

:ultmario: I think many agree his moveset needs to be updated. How about this:
- Forward Smash replaced with a hammer smash just like in all of the Mario RPG games.
- Up Special is Cappy, and functions a little like Ike's Aether in that Mario throws Cappy upwards (or it can be angled) dealing damage to anyone touching the spinning cap, and then Mario dives after it.
- Side Special remains Cape, but never turns someone to face Mario, only away. And, if you hold the button then Mario will continue spinning (which slows his fall) just like in Super Mario World (a lot of other reflectors can be held indefinitely anyway)
- Down Special remains FLUDD, but this time if you have a charge and use it in the air, Mario will use the Rocket Nozzle instead, which gives him an alternate recovery option
- Mario's expressions are not so angry but rather happy like he is in his games

:ultdk: I like the idea of his recovery being a barrel blast, and I think his neutral special could be replaced with Coconut Gun, which fires in spurts. Headbutt could be replaced with a different animation using his hands, since I don't think Donkey Kong ever headbutts in his games.

:ultsamus: Definitely needs a rework.
- Forward Smash replaced with the Melee Counter attack from Samus Returns
- Down Special is now a toggle move that puts Samus in morph ball form. While in this form you can roll around and jump, dealing slight knockback to anyone like the dash attack ability. Pressing the attack button drops a bomb, which is not fiery but electrical. Pressing the special button again returns you to normal form. Morph Ball is also a bit larger like it is in most of the Metroid games, and her dodge roll is something else
- Up Special, Screw Attack, has a slight delay so that you can angle it more horizontally if desired, and it travels further (I mean come on it's the best move in her games)
- Neutral Special is now similar to Shulk's Monado Arts wheel, where you can select either Missiles, Power Beam, Wave Beam, or Ice Beam
- Side Special fires your arm cannon with whichever weapon you have selected. Missiles function about the same. Power Beam is weakest but fires the fastest, Wave Beam is slower but deals electrical damage and passes through opponents and walls, Ice Beam of course has a chance to freeze an opponent. Holding down the special button can still charge up a shot, but you can't store the charge.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

Old rivalries live on!
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
21,998
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
3DS FC
5327-1637-5096
NNID
TPitch5
#32
After hearing how poorly King K. Rool is doing, I'd probably give him a good deal of adjustments.

For starters, make certain attacks have less start-up lag, and implement armor (besides the belly armor mechanic) when deemed necessary. Giving the up special heavy armor would also help to avoid getting gimped by weak hitboxes. And of course, K. Rool's overall mobility needs to be improved.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2018
Messages
43
#33
:4peach:- Remove the toad from Peach's grabs so she can have her old throws back
- Change Peach Bomber back to the way it was in Smash Wii U where she didn't always face the screen when using it
- Neutral Special counters with her hip instead of toad
- Down smash attack becomes her joy cyclone from Super Princess Peach causing her to float for a little bit
- Have Peach attack with her hip when holding on to a ledge
- Change her dash attack to her Hill Slide ability from Super Princess Peach.
 
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