Raziek's Robin Research Room & Repository (Moveset, Mechanics & Frame Data!)

[C.J.]

Based on talking to Raz last night, they do. Any move that uses Tomes counts towards their durability be it specials, jabs, etc.

 

[Jackson]

Based on talking to Raz last night, they do. Any move that uses Tomes counts towards their durability be it specials, jabs, etc.

That's interesting, we may have to watch out for that when using his jab and stuff.

 

[Iron Maw]

Raziek I've got two quick requests, if you don't mind.

-Do you know how Nosferatu works vs counters, i.e can it beat them?
-How reliable is Elwind as a gimping/edge guarding tool off stage? I've seen people do it a couple of times on streams, but since their where just trying out Robin and getting used to him their didn't do a whole lot.

 

[MindlessFire]

Also do you think it will be easier for Robin to perform Aerial Smash Attacks if given a C-Stick? I don't really see a lot of players take full advantage of Robin's aerial Smashes either because they don't know that s/he has this ability or if its more difficult to perform smashes in midair.

 

[Unicorn]

Also do you think it will be easier for Robin to perform Aerial Smash Attacks if given a C-Stick? I don't really see a lot of players take full advantage of Robin's aerial Smashes either because they don't know that s/he has this ability or if its more difficult to perform smashes in midair.

Everything will be easier with an actual controller so yes.

 

[Delzethin]

-Do you know how Nosferatu works vs counters, i.e can it beat them?

I'd imagine so, since it's a command grab. Unless countering moves trigger on other command grabs now, that is...

 

[MindlessFire]

Everything will be easier with an actual controller so yes.

Yeah of course, it's like having a PC Gamer who's so used to using mouse and keyboard for FPS game and then being forced to use a controller.

 

[ViralN9]

Sorry if this has been asked earlier. But is it true that Robin can use smashes in the air? None of the gameplay I've seen show him using one.

 

[.Shìkì]

Sorry if this has been asked earlier. But is it true that Robin can use smashes in the air? None of the gameplay I've seen show him using one.

Its simply using Levin Sword in the air by doing a smash-input, you cannot charge them. They do hit like smashes though. His/her normal aerials are the ones using the bronze sword.

 

[ViralN9]

Its simply using Levin Sword in the air by doing a smash-input, you cannot charge them. They do hit like smashes though. His/her normal aerials are the ones using the bronze sword.

Ah, thank you.

 

[•Col•]

That's interesting, we may have to watch out for that when using his jab and stuff.

I think that's the point. Looking at the stats for the 2 different jabs in the opening post, the wind one seems all around better(other than the fact that light characters can di out of it).

The fact that it consumes elwind charges is the risk to using it.

 

[Jackson]

Its simply using Levin Sword in the air by doing a smash-input, you cannot charge them. They do hit like smashes though. His/her normal aerials are the ones using the bronze sword.

Oh, man... I do all my aerials with C stick. I guess on Wii U, doing aerials with c stick will cause the smash aerials, and I'll have to do normal aerials with A. That's gonna be tough.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No it won't be. There's very little reason to swing with the bronze sword ever except for Nair.

 

[Iron Maw]

I'd imagine so, since it's a command grab. Unless countering moves trigger on other command grabs now, that is...

That's my assumption, but we have had attacks that don't quite play by the rules before. So I just wanted a confirmation.

I think that's the point. Looking at the stats for the 2 different jabs in the opening post, the wind one seems all around better(other than the fact that light characters can di out of it).

The fact that it consumes elwind charges is the risk to using it.

The Fire Tome Jab has much more knockback though, so it sounds like it would actually be the better one to use at higher percentages. Particularly so that you can setup some edge guarding shenanigans.

 

[•Col•]

The Fire Tome Jab has much more knockback though, so it sounds like it would actually be the better one to use at higher percentages. Particularly so that you can setup some edge guarding shenanigans.

No it doesn't. Wind has more knockback.

Go back and look at the OP.

 

[MajorMajora]

Does anyone know how to get his different A combos? Is it whether or not you mash, or is it which spell you used last?

 

[Raziek]

Does anyone know how to get his different A combos? Is it whether or not you mash, or is it which spell you used last?

It's based on the mash.

I'm actually not sure if the jabs consume tome usage. I'll find out.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

It's based on the mash.

I'm actually not sure if the jabs consume tome usage. I'll find out.

They do.

If you mash Jab until Elwind runs out, you won't be able to Up B at all.

 

[Iron Maw]

No it doesn't. Wind has more knockback.

Go back and look at the OP.

Actually reading it again it doesn't say either one is better than other in that area, but the Fire Tome is more likely to land you a kill near high %.

So Wind low-mid then Fire at high as Raziek suggest makes the most sense, if you want more a bit more reliability and practicability. Your Wind Tome might be better served elsewhere afterwards.

 

[Raziek]

They do.

If you mash Jab until Elwind runs out, you won't be able to Up B at all.

This is correct! I'll get exact numbers and update the OP with all the extra questions and stuff in a little bit.

 

[dna.noodle]

Yeah that was my experience too, Raziek. It hasn't been an issue in matches yet, but with enough time I bet I'll lose it at the wrong time. I reread your OP and I'm going to play some more matches today. So far what you've said has been consistent for me too. Elfire starts up too slow to use a lot and gets punished easily by characters who can jump over it and move in fast. I was having some trouble landing Nosferatu as well...do you have any advice on getting that to connect despite the short reach?

 

[Jackson]

This is correct! I'll get exact numbers and update the OP with all the extra questions and stuff in a little bit.

Hey, Raziek, just wondering: what is your avatar? Is it from Fire Emblem?

 

[Raziek]

Hey, Raziek, just wondering: what is your avatar? Is it from Fire Emblem?

It is! It's a custom sprite I made myself.

It's composed of parts from Joshua (FE8), Colm (FE8), Klein (FE6), and I can't remember where I snagged the color scheme.

 

[Chiroz]

Hey, just dropping by to say something I didn't see on the main post (it might be on some other post in the thread though).

His Multi-Jab combo uses his Wind Tome and his 1-2-3 Jab combo uses his Fire Tome. To test just hold the Multi-Hit Jab for like 10-15 seconds, it will break.

You will almost never break the tome JUST by jabbing, but just keep in mind that if you have jabbed at all you won't have 9 Elwinds or 6 Fires.

 

[Raziek]

Hey, just dropping by to say something I didn't see on the main post (it might be on some other post in the thread though).

His Multi-Jab combo uses his Wind Tome and his 1-2-3 Jab combo uses his Fire Tome. To test just hold the Multi-Hit Jab for like 10-15 seconds, it will break.

You will almost never break the tome JUST by jabbing, but just keep in mind that if you have jabbed at all you won't have 9 Elwinds or 6 Fires.

I actually JUST added this, but thank you!

 

[MindlessFire]

http://kotaku.com/super-smash-bros-is-wrecking-some-peoples-3ds-handheld-1634549128

Robin is probably the character that's going break a lot of people's 3DS joystick since s/he's the character with the most Smash attacks. Kind of hard to play a character at your full potential especially if you're always holding yourself back because you're afraid of breaking your friend's $500 Japanese 3DS with capture card installed. At least the Wii U version will allow people to go all out.

 

[Jackson]

It is! It's a custom sprite I made myself.

It's composed of parts from Joshua (FE8), Colm (FE8), Klein (FE6), and I can't remember where I snagged the color scheme.

Sweet, dude. I'm a huge FE fan.

 

[dna.noodle]

I just got some more matches in and I'm finding Greninja and Little Mac are both popular on the Japanese network...which kind of sucks for me because I feel like both of them are extremely challenging match ups for Robin. Little Mac has SO much speed and priority. He can actually punch straight through all the thunders but Thoron, I believe. Our medium-long range spacing is actually good for him too because he uses so many dash-type attacks. His side B also launches him just above Elfire and some (maybe all?) of the thunders. Then when he gets close he can start pummeling you with his jab (nearly impossible to DI out of) and his many quick, high-priority punches. When I do beat him I use fire as a barrier to help me space and I charge fully to Thoron when possible for the priority. I'd get him off the ground and then try to nail him with Levin.

Greninja also has a good projectile that can interrupt our casts easily and hits hard when fully charged. He has more reach with some dislocated hitboxes on his smash moves and a lot of comboability, so controlling the fight has been difficult for me. I haven't beaten him yet, but I've had a couple close fights against him.

In general I am having problems with counter moves. I think I just need to get used to when people are most likely to do them, but I have failed a lot of Bair kill strikes because I want to jump out and kill people before they can return and then I get countered. Raziek's data has been crazy helpful though. I had much more success today because I stopped holding back with Levin, defaulted to the high priority, hard-to-punish moves, used more thunder than fire and had a much better idea how to manage my consumable books and sword. Thanks for all the awesome info Raz!

 

[.Shìkì]

I just got some more matches in and I'm finding Greninja and Little Mac are both popular on the Japanese network...which kind of sucks for me because I feel like both of them are extremely challenging match ups for Robin. Little Mac has SO much speed and priority. He can actually punch straight through all the thunders but Thoron, I believe. Our medium-long range spacing is actually good for him too because he uses so many dash-type attacks. His side B also launches him just above Elfire and some (maybe all?) of the thunders. Then when he gets close he can start pummeling you with his jab (nearly impossible to DI out of) and his many quick, high-priority punches. When I do beat him I use fire as a barrier to help me space and I charge fully to Thoron when possible for the priority. I'd get him off the ground and then try to nail him with Levin.

Greninja also has a good projectile that can interrupt our casts easily and hits hard when fully charged. He has more reach with some dislocated hitboxes on his smash moves and a lot of comboability, so controlling the fight has been difficult for me. I haven't beaten him yet, but I've had a couple close fights against him.

In general I am having problems with counter moves. I think I just need to get used to when people are most likely to do them, but I have failed a lot of Bair kill strikes because I want to jump out and kill people before they can return and then I get countered. Raziek's data has been crazy helpful though. I had much more success today because I stopped holding back with Levin, defaulted to the high priority, hard-to-punish moves, used more thunder than fire and had a much better idea how to manage my consumable books and sword. Thanks for all the awesome info Raz!

Just wait til you see a good Palutena, she seems to be a beastly Robin counter (and Megman and many more) with her default moveset...Counter AND a good reflecting ability on one set+ spammable auto-aim projectiles aswell as decent to good closerange moves and a godlike up-smash make for a very, very annoying opponent... And that her rolls and airdodges are ALL TELEPORTS just adds insult to injury as you can barely see in which direction she rolled, or if she spotdodged...and she can grab you so fast after rolling it feels like you get grabbed while she is still invisible.

 

[Unicorn]

I don't think Little Mac should be too hard to beat. Bait out his approach by charging Thunder, then cancel into Nosferatu or a smash when he Side-B's. All you need to do is get him up to like 60 percent, then back throw him and he won't be able to recover past your projectiles. Theoretically...

Greninja and Palutena though... ya. Greninja is just good in general, and Palutena has some nice anti-Robin tools. If you didn't already watch the Smash 4 Invitational put on by Tourney Locator, Sethlon played Robin and he had to go against Palutena. That would be a good place to start if you are looking for some tech.

As Robin players, we have to show them the difference between tactics and strategy.

 

[.Shìkì]

@ Raziek Just watched some of the minitourneys , and Robin killed a Fox with B-Throw at 121%, doing 20% damage near the edge of Battlefield. Your numbers show 11% damage and killing at around 200% from the middle, so could you test whether there is some weird "the more % the less damage" mechanic going on or whether those guys just changed the damage ratio (if thats even possible in this game)?

 

[Raziek]

Damage ratio definitely can be changed, but I'll try to see what's up with that one.

Also, I got Thoron 3, which somewhat predictably is a fast-charge, fast-travelling, but very weak version.

I'll add full numbers later. On my phone ATM. Let me look into that Fox business.

Edit: B-throw DEFINITELY does 11%. It'd kill Fox around 160 in the situation you described, but that damage number sounds like a real anomaly.

 

[.Shìkì]

Damage ratio definitely can be changed, but I'll try to see what's up with that one.

Also, I got Thoron 3, which somewhat predictably is a fast-charge, fast-travelling, but very weak version.

I'll add full numbers later. On my phone ATM. Let me look into that Fox business.

Edit: B-throw DEFINITELY does 11%. It'd kill Fox around 160 in the situation you described, but that damage number sounds like a real anomaly.

So they either upped the damage ratio, it is maybe influenced by the thunder charge (that would be wack though), or (and I'm sorry if this is the case as i have no idea how the mechanics worked earlier), moves generally do more damage in doubles. Well or securing a kill with the Levin sword buffs Robin... weird. I'll guess I'll try and find the exakt time it happens, I'll edit/reply with it here then.

EDIT : http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/568701712 around 1:24:05, Robin kills Wario with an Upair-Smash (well he had over 180% X) ) and then immediatly proceeds to throw Fox into the river Styx.

EDIT 2 : Looking at it frame-by-frame it looks as if she pummels/jabs/tilts him incredibly fast into the backthrow, but a pummel/jab-1/side-tilt dealing 8% is still CRAZY,especially if you can buffer (or whatever its called) it directly into a grab before any launching/pushing happens. If its side-tilt it would mean it can be incredibly fast and doesn't deal a constant 7% but 7-8%...

 

[dna.noodle]

I actually have played one good Palutena and she was everything you described. Well, adding in a seemingly very long range on her grab. Several times I thought I was well out of grab range and wasn't. And yes, just to reiterate, auto-targeting projectiles, long reach smashes with high knockback, reflects and confusing teleports all make her very challenging to play against.

The problem with Little Mac is not that his side B is so great, it is that he has several options on the approach and they all can push past at least most of our projectiles. I am still looking into it, but so far I have found using Elfire 1 for a defensive wall is useful in slowing his momentum and controlling spacing. That side B hurts, but I'd recommend against underestimating his ability to approach, pummel and kill on the ground with any of his quick, hard-hitting moves.

 

[PK Gaming]

http://kotaku.com/super-smash-bros-is-wrecking-some-peoples-3ds-handheld-1634549128

Robin is probably the character that's going break a lot of people's 3DS joystick since s/he's the character with the most Smash attacks. Kind of hard to play a character at your full potential especially if you're always holding yourself back because you're afraid of breaking your friend's $500 Japanese 3DS with capture card installed. At least the Wii U version will allow people to go all out.

TIME TO (stock up on 3DS's)

 

[Delzethin]

http://smashboards.com/threads/firs...osed-to-be-in-ssb4-will-it-be-patched.368338/

Uh oh. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Hong]

http://smashboards.com/threads/firs...osed-to-be-in-ssb4-will-it-be-patched.368338/

Uh oh. What are your thoughts on this?

As I mentioned in the social thread, even on English forums, Treehouse has eyes and ears everywhere.

If Sakurai and his team already does not know about it, it will be communicated to him before long. With Peach players being needlessly banned, it is a clear indication this game must be patched, and they have the capacity to do so. With that said, I think bugs will be resolved.

 

[Raziek]

It's quite unfortunate for our favorite tactician, but I have no idea just what the magnitude of punishes other characters will be able to get, nor do I know exactly how easy it will be to set up and execute.

Time will tell. I'm hopeful for a patch for the Wii U version if nothing else.

 

[PK Gaming]

The infinite is definitely problematic, but it's not a death sentence. I believe it functions like ZSS's infinite against ROB in Brawl; it needs to be performed at point blank range, and it can't be combo'd into. It's absolutely something to look out for, but it's also not something we should lose sleep over.

If they patch it out? Great, but we should steel ourselves for the worst case scenario.

 

[Mr. Johan]

At the very least, it won't be present in the Wii U version. I doubt the coding is a 1:1 transfer between the builds, and I can't imagine such a random exploit on one character and one character alone making it to the Wii U version intact.