Raziek's Robin Research Room & Repository (Moveset, Mechanics & Frame Data!)

[NachoOfCheese]

Dacus as a whole has been patched out so unfortunately no.

Yeah that's what I thought. I got real excited when I saw that on the OP XD

 

[b0kken]

I've got some doubts about roll cancel grab, it's still possible to do?

 

[Lavani]

@ Raziek I figured it out!

If Robin is down to her last charge on the Levin Sword and is hit while charging a smash, she'll drop the Levin Sword and the timer to spawn a new one will start...but Robin will still be able to do one more Levin Sword attack, and then discard a second Levin Sword afterward. If repeatedly hit out of smash charges, Robin will continue discarding Levin Swords after each hit.

So it isn't exactly something I'd encourage actively attempting to do, but if you ever see Robin drop more than one Levin Sword, this is why it happens. This also means if you get hit out of a smash charge and see Robin discard the Levin Sword, you still actually have one more use of it left, after which you'll discard another Levin Sword.

 

[Delzethin]

I've got some doubts about roll cancel grab, it's still possible to do?

It definitely is. I can pull them off relatively consistently.

 

[Lavani]

Some Nosferatu stuff:

- All three Nosferatu variants have a small window of intangibility that seems to start just before the grab frames and ends soon after.
- Aerial Goetia will put Robin in helpless if the windbox manages to pull anything, regardless of whether or not Robin actually connects a successful grab.

 

[Froggy]

Hi everyone

Accrding to SMashwiki in regards to Robin's Down b(Nosferatu) http://www.ssbwiki.com/Robin_(SSB4)

"More energy is drained if the player mashes the special button"

I have tried this and nothing changes the more I mash the B button, is there some trick to it or something I am misundestanding or is it false altogether? Please let me know.

 

[Raziek]

Gotta be false, as far as I know. They probably misinterpreted what causes more healing. (Damage difference)

 

[One Tilt]

I'd heard in patch notes something about tomes 'not disappearing when hitting platforms', or some such thing-- does anyone have some clarification on the matter? I'd also heard that the wind jabs might have gotten some endlag chipped away, but I can't really tell what's factually changed when even so simple a consideration as patchnotes apparently escapes Nintendo...

 

[ARGHETH]

I'd heard in patch notes something about tomes 'not disappearing when hitting platforms', or some such thing-- does anyone have some clarification on the matter? I'd also heard that the wind jabs might have gotten some endlag chipped away, but I can't really tell what's factually changed when even so simple a consideration as patchnotes apparently escapes Nintendo...

From what I can tell, before this patch if you used up a tome and the book lands on a platform (if you were under it, for example), it would disappear instead of bouncing like normal, making it impossible to catch it. Wind jab was buffed, the infinite part (with the smaller wind blades) now link to the final hit significantly more, making it more viable.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Some Nosferatu stuff:

- All three Nosferatu variants have a small window of intangibility that seems to start just before the grab frames and ends soon after.

I thought this was a thing also due to the overlay change on frames 16-17 but it's not actually a thing.

 

[Lavani]

I thought this was a thing also due to the overlay change on frames 16-17 but it's not actually a thing.

I disagree, sisT.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I disagree, sisT.

why is that a thing LOL

I have a few more robin things to check out, I'll find these frames later

Tournament today so I'll be busy

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I disagree, sisT.

i cant replicate this at all

anyway heres some things @ Raziek

flame wall:

projectile on like... 12? or so to 36? I guess. Until it hits the ground anyway.

It has a 0% detector which detonates it

Then it hits twice, not sure how this works at all. There's no rehit rate and the hitboxes seem to change at least 3 times so I dunno why it can't hit 3 times.

speed thunder

16 frames to charge elthunder
52 frames to charge archthunder
86 frames to charge thoron

speed thunder: 9-20
FAF 36

speed elthunder: 9-40
FAF 49

speed arcthunder: 9-46
FAF 49

speed thoron: 17-
FAF 53

super speed thoron: 17-
FAF 61

THUNDER:

38 frames to charge Elthunder
108 frames to charge Arcthunder
168 frames to charge Thoron

When you've used up your levin sword, bronze sword smash attacks reduce the regeneration time of the Levin Sword by 20 frames

I should have tested aerials. I wonder if they work the same?

 

[False Sense]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I noticed something a bit unusual about Nosferatu. If it successfully catches an opponent, it seems that the darkness has a small hitbox that damages other players that run into it, and knocks them back a bit.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Centicerise]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I noticed something a bit unusual about Nosferatu. If it successfully catches an opponent, it seems that the darkness has a small hitbox that damages other players that run into it, and knocks them back a bit.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I've noticed it's actually quite large, preventing any attempts to run through and punish and even stopping short hops at times.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I noticed something a bit unusual about Nosferatu. If it successfully catches an opponent, it seems that the darkness has a small hitbox that damages other players that run into it, and knocks them back a bit.

Has anyone else noticed this?

It has active hitboxes like most grabs.

 

[Macchiato]

Are there any Robin specific advanced techniques?

 

[The_Cardinal]

Are there any Robin specific advanced techniques?

Not really in the strictest sense. Robin does have a decent b-reverse and technically any advance techniques that relate to item play though.

 

[False Sense]

Are there any Robin specific advanced techniques?

Not exactly. I think the closest thing to advanced techniques would be following up Arcfire/Arcthunder with Levin F-Air or a grab and using Robin's dropped items for offensive and defensive purposes.

 

[Lavani]

Y'all wouldn't call instant book grabbing an AT?

 

[Gamegenie222]

Y'all wouldn't call instant book grabbing an AT?

You mean this? I would call it one ATM.

 

[The_Cardinal]

Y'all wouldn't call instant book grabbing an AT?

You mean this? I would call it one ATM.

What?!?!?! This is awesome! But how do you do it? Use dtilt during the recovery of your last spell then catch the book with the A button?

 

[Gamegenie222]

IDK man I just found out it a few days ago and haven't tested it yet. @ Mr. Johan posted it in the character competitive discussion thread a few days ago and said he has one of methods down IDK how much though.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Yeah, I guess this would be called an AT, lol. I take no credit for discovering it though, that belongs to the maker of that vine.

Robin can catch the tome early by Dtilting immediately after a tome's move is complete, and abusing the IASA frames there. It's the same mechanic that can make Robin toss more than one item at a time - the tome does not eject if the game recognizes that Robin is performing a move at that moment it would eject. With Dtilt, Robin can ignore the otherwise compulsory toss item animation he goes through, and immediately act to grab the book.

As shown in that vine, Robin has three very quick methods to get the book. The Dash Attack method is the riskiest since Robin's stuck performing a move, but it can be a nice surprise option. The standing catch is the fastest, but it's frame perfect, so it requires extensive practice. The third method is the one I use, and is the one I generally consider the best of the three, because with the Short Hop, Robin has free range with his aerial maneuverability to position himself. Robin can catch it and evade trouble if someone's approaching, and if it's something with high commitment, Robin can just chuck the tome down with a Smash Throw and hit hard. He can also greatly utilize insta-catching and then insta-throwing the book because the book's then traveling fast with an angled trajectory, providing immediate pressure.

I highly recommend learning all three methods; getting the book early is always a good thing, and makes getting the tomes on Battlefield and Lylat less of a hassle. Start with the Short Hop method first, as it's the easiest with overall great reward.

 

[Morgan S. Court]

Are there any Robin specific advanced techniques?

Robin's arcfire is a great combo starter. To F-air is definitely the easiest, but chaining arcfire and finishing with a Levin U-air is a bit tricky (It does register as a true combo and deals 37-ish%), while arcfire to Nosferatu is very difficult. For some reason, Fox seems to take lots of Robin's combos and rapid jab very hard, so I suggest training on him.

Spiking with Elwind takes a while as you need to be close but apparently if you arcfire someone off stage, you can combo into a spike, which I imagine is tricky too, although I need more practice with it.

I wrote a guide shoving all my knowledge about Robin here http://smashboards.com/guides/treatise-on-robin.389/ so I hope it helps, even though it could use improvement.

 

[Delzethin]

Anyone have any suggestions on how to do run-off ledge grabs more easily? I want to be able to do it so I can use more ledge trump shenanigans, but I can't seem to get the timing right.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

Anyone have any suggestions on how to do run-off ledge grabs more easily? I want to be able to do it so I can use more ledge trump shenanigans, but I can't seem to get the timing right.

I actually find this really easy with Robin because we're literally the slowest damn character in the game. I think all you have to do is run off and tap back towards the ledge once offstage. I've never really needed to do the quarter/half-circle motion with the stick that some faster characters have to do because they naturally have more momentum coming off the stage. We're floaty, so I don't think you need to do it fast, either. If I try to tap backwards too fast, I just skid and fail to leave the stage lol.

 

[divade]

You mean this? I would call it one ATM.

This is kickass. I plan on putting ore work into Robin, so hello everyone.

 

[divade]

You can also delay the book toss with other specials, if you want some spacing options before you try to d-tilt grab your book.
Is the dash equally frame perfect, compared to just pickup?

( Also you can also run out of Down B, Side B and Neutral B without throwing a book in between, but you will only drop the first tome you ran out of, not three at once ( )

 

[Pazzo.]

So glad I learned that little book AT...

This will significantly change some things, such as how I immediately attack after wiffed projectile attacks that leave me open.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

This is sort of a trivial question. What determines if a move can delay Robin discarding an item? After an item's durability runs out you can spam up tilt or down tilt to infinitely delay tossing the tome/sword (also works with specials). But if you attempt to use a jab or forward tilt after breaking an item, it is tossed before the move comes out.

From what I understand (which could be wrong), when it comes to instant book grabbing, you use a down tilt because Robin puts his tome wielding hand (the hand items are discarded from) close to the ground, near his foot when is IASA frames kick in. So if you interrupt the move from that point, the tome/sword's trajectory starts there and has to go all the way through Robin, which means it's in an ideal spot to be quickly grabbed.
Theoretically, if you could delay discarding an item with a forward tilt (you can't), the item would begin its trajectory from a similar spot. Which would be sorta useful, 'cause having more options is always nice. That why I'm wondering why it doesn't work with a forward tilt.

 

[Raziek]

I've begun work on updating this on my lunch breaks. Skimmed through up to and including B-throw. Work in progress.

 

[Raziek]

Fully updated. Didn't go too much into gameplay specific stuff, will be doing that separately in my other guide as I get to working on that. This is primarily data/moveset overview.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Has any Robin players integrated dance trotting into their play? I've yet to see it brought up here. Robin's initial dash length is 16 frames iirc, so his timing isn't strict at all. This also allows him to do it incredibly fast, along with extend or shorten the length at will.

When Robin does an initial dance trot when right next to the opponent, he has a lot of options because his shortest/fastest dance trot has relatively poor length due to his terrible run speed. He can F-Air, U-Air, N-Air, B-Air, F-Smash Dash Attack, Dash Grab, Arc Fire, SH Nosferatu and PP Thunders. His longest/slowest dance trot has much better range than his short/fast one, although it's still comparatively poor compared to other 15/16 inital dash characters. The long/slow dance trot will push Robin a little bit outside of Marth's F-Smash range when used directly next to the character.

Also, due to Robin's poor perfect pivot length, you can mix these up with your dance trots to stay within range but keep all options. This allows you to do things you normally can't out of a dance trot, such as standing Nosferatu, Thunder, D-Smash and Tilts.

seems good to explore, I guess? basically everybody who has a 15/16 initial dash can get a lot of use out of it, but I'm curious on how Robin (and Ganondorf) would do with this as they're very slow

 

[Raziek]

Has any Robin players integrated dance trotting into their play? I've yet to see it brought up here. Robin's initial dash length is 16 frames iirc, so his timing isn't strict at all. This also allows him to do it incredibly fast, along with extend or shorten the length at will.

When Robin does an initial dance trot when right next to the opponent, he has a lot of options because his shortest/fastest dance trot has relatively poor length due to his terrible run speed. He can F-Air, U-Air, N-Air, B-Air, F-Smash Dash Attack, Dash Grab, Arc Fire, SH Nosferatu and PP Thunders. His longest/slowest dance trot has much better range than his short/fast one, although it's still comparatively poor compared to other 15/16 inital dash characters. The long/slow dance trot will push Robin a little bit outside of Marth's F-Smash range when used directly next to the character.

Also, due to Robin's poor perfect pivot length, you can mix these up with your dance trots to stay within range but keep all options. This allows you to do things you normally can't out of a dance trot, such as standing Nosferatu, Thunder, D-Smash and Tilts.

seems good to explore, I guess? basically everybody who has a 15/16 initial dash can get a lot of use out of it, but I'm curious on how Robin (and Ganondorf) would do with this as they're very slow

I use fox-trotting a decent amount, but this seems..... difficult to apply for Robin. Her movement speed is slow enough that I'm struggling to think of situations where I would use this that wouldn't be solved by either simple dash pivot <insert move> or just spacing better in general.

 

[BoBoMuNcHcRunCH]

At high percentages, I believe you can down tilt and no matter if they tech any direction, or don't tech, you can get a thoron for the kill