• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Raziek's Robin Research Room & Repository (Moveset, Mechanics & Frame Data!)

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Moveset Details

:GCA:
Jab 1
: 3%. Quick upwards sword slash. Surprisingly good range.

hits on frame 4
does 3%
shield on frame 38

:GCA::GCA:
Jab 2:
3%. Quick downwards slash, similar range.

hits on frame 23 (19 frames after jab 1)
does 3%
shield on frame 60

:GCA::GCA:(Hold: :GCA:)
Jab 3 (Fire): 5%. Hold A after Jab 2 or just press it once to get the Fire finisher. Small explosion in front of Robin, with decent knockback.

hits on frame 48 (25 frames after jab 2)
does 5%
interestingly, the hitbox comes out before the explosion
shield on frame 85

:GCA::GCA:(Mash: :GCA:)
Jab 3 (Wind): 5-8%, depending on how many of the 'blades' hit. Decent knock-back, killing around the same time as Fire, but very easy to pop out of the finishing blow when it would actually be relevant for a kill-blow. Once you get the 'vortex' going, you can hold the button to have the blades continue, release it to get the final hit. Use at low to mid percents, use Fire for the kill, due to being able to DI out of Wind's final hit.

multijab:
first hit on frame 45 (22 frames after jab 2)/8 frames between each hit
each hit does 1%/last hit does 3%
shield on frame 54 (after last hit)

Note: Both Jab finishers also consume Tome durability.

Fire counts exactly the same as Elfire, so 6 casts to break.

Wind seems to be about 8 casts. I found out that you can hold 'A' once the vortex starts and the blades will continue until you either release the button, or it breaks. It takes about 18.5 seconds of holding the button down for Wind to break as a result of the vortex.


Tilts
:GCR::GCA:
F-tilt: 7% damage. Quick forward slash, angled slightly downwards (so not a straight stab). Reasonably fast start-up and recovery. Hits enemy horizontally, but has awful knockback. Good enough to get them away, but certainly not a killing tool.

hits on frame 9
does 8%
shield on frame 40

:GCD::GCA:
D-tilt: 6% damage. Extremely fast stab at Robin's feet. Short range, but has absurdly fast start-up and almost no recovery. You can spam this move, and shield nearly immediately. Almost guaranteed to be safe, I think. Knocks down and away, but has almost no knockback. Will eventually cause hard knockdown around 150, they have to tech at that point.

hits on frame 7
does 6%
shield on frame 29


:GCU::GCA:
U-tilt: 6% damage. Fast upwards swipe. Has almost no horizontal hitbox, so this is basically reserved for an anti-air and landing trap. Reasonably fast recovery. Not a kill move.

hits on frame 6
does 6%
shield on frame 43

:GCR::GCR::GCA:
Dash Attack: Short-ranged stab close to his body. Awful recovery, doesn't kill until fairly late. Not a good option.

dash attack:
hits on frame 9
does 10%
shield on frame 60

DACUS (Thanks to @Eekcast )


I'll leave it here as a relic of what once was, but DACUS was patched out of the game and no longer works.

Smash Attacks
:GCCR:
F-Smash(Bronze Sword): Short stab in front of Robin, pretty close range punish. Does 9%. Kills around 175.
F-Smash(Levin Sword): Same thing, possibly slightly more range. Does 16%. Uncharged, kills around 130 pre-hit. Not horrible recovery, but is probably not safe.

hits on frame 16
does 16%
shield on frame 74

:GCCD:
D-Smash(Bronze Sword): Overhead slash directly in front of Robin. Does 8%. Kills around 150 maybe.
D-Smash(Levin Sword): Same Slash, does 15%. Levin Sword adds a Shockwave that extends from the sword forwards and backwards (like Dedede's Up-B landing) that does 8% with less KB. Main hit (both sides) kills around 110, probably will be one of his more reliable kill moves.

hits on frame 17
does 16%
shield on frame 79

:GCCU:
U-Smash(Bronze Sword): 9% damage. Upwards slash. Basically no horizontal hitbox, awful KB.
U-Smash(Levin Sword): 15% damage (tip). 10 damage for side hitboxes. Same thing, better horizontal hitbox. The tip hitbox is very strong, kills around 110 as well. Launchers not very strong.

hits on frame 13
does 16%
shield on frame 70

Aerials
:GCA:
Neutral air:
7% damage on either hit. Relatively fast double slash in an 'infinity' symbol motion. Not particularly good reach in either direction. Not an approach tool, but fairly safe to retreat, or just kinda float it out there. Almost no kill potential. Short-hopping it has a nice auto-cancel window if you don't fast-fall, but has some landing recovery if you do.

hits on frame 9
interestingly, the hitbox comes out before the "hit splash" graphical effect does
does 7%
shield on frame 21 (after landing lag)
low kill potential

hits on frame 23
does 7%
shield on frame 21 (after landing lag)
low kill potential

:GCR::GCA:
Fair(Bronze Sword): 6% damage. Slight delay before a forwards-facing Scoop slash. Kills around 190-200. Similar to nair, has a solid auto-cancel if you don't fastfall, bad recovery otherwise. Likely able to follow-up with another fair at mid-percents.
Fair(Levin Sword): 11% damage. Same animation. Kills around 140.

hits on frame 12
does 11%
shield on frame 21 (after landing lag)
medium-low kill potential

:GCL::GCA:
Bair(Bronze Sword): 9% damage. Leans back for a fast slash with solid reach, angled slightly downwards. Kills quite late, around 180.
Bair(Levin Sword): 15% damage. Same animation. Kills at like 110. This is probably Robin's second best aerial, behind Uair. Same AC style as all his other aerials.

hits on frame 10
does 15%
shield on frame 22 (after landing lag)

I believe frame 16 is bair's latest hitbox
does 5%
shield on frame 6 (after landing lag)

:GCU::GCA:
Uair(Bronze Sword): 7% damage. Upwards crescent slash, similar to Marth's. Kills around 155. Same AC window as Nair and Fair.
Uair(Levin Sword): 13% damage. Same animation, better reach. Kills around 110. Godlike aerial. Seriously godlike.

hits on frame 10
does 13%
shield on frame 19 (after landing lag)

I believe frame 22 is uair's latest hitbox
does 5%
shield on frame 6 (after landing lag)

:GCD::GCA:
Dair(Bronze Sword) Dair: 7% damage. Downwards one-handed slash below and slightly in front of Robin. Hits sideways, pretty useless. Hitbox is only at the bottom, not on the actual swing.
Dair(Levin Sword): 12% (side), 10% (bottom). Has a Horizontal hitbox with the Levin Sword, still hits sideways with crappy KB, but at least has some damage. Downwards hitbox ground-bounces, but has too much recovery to follow up on.

hits on frame 13
does 10%
shield on frame 29 (after landing lag)

Throws
:GCZ:
Grab:
Puts opponent in a magical bind. Pummel (:GCA:) zaps them for 3%, fairly slowly. Pretty short-range standing grab. Dash-grab has better range, but more recovery. Solid pivot grab range, larger than both standing and dashing.

standing grab:
hits on frame 9
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 41 on whiff)

dash grab:
hits on frame 8
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 51 on whiff)

pivot grab:
hits on frame 9
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 48 on whiff)


:GCZ::GCR:
F-throw: 8%. Throws opponent forwards. Very very poor KB growth, sends almost nowhere even at 300%. Sends just far enough to prevent follow-up. Might be able to get a follow-up with Thoron, but can likely jump out of it. Does cause a Jump/Airdodge trap with any Thunder spell or Arcfire.


:GCZ::GCL:
B-Throw: 11%. Leaves opponent above and behind Robin a solid distance away. Does not allow follow-ups unless off of a wallbounce. Kills around 135, and is reliable near the ledge. It's no Ness B-throw, but it's an option. You should probably be killing them with D-throw Uair at 90ish if you can find the grab, but B-throw will be close to killing when D-throw Uair stops working.




:GCZ::GCD:
D-Throw: 6%. Slams opponent into ground, bouncing them vertically. Does not kill. Robin can act very quickly out of this throw, allowing for guaranteed follow-ups at basically all stages of the game. At around 0% most characters can safely jump out, but Robin has the following follow-ups at other percents:

15-40ish: Jab, U-tilt
40-65ish: U-tilt
85-120% (Varies by character weight: Uair for a kill. CHECKMATE.


:GCZ::GCU:
U-Throw: 9%. Tosses vertically. No kill power either. No follow-ups. Really only used to throw opponents upwards into thrown items, or to get your partner out of having grabbed them in doubles.




Special Moves & Custom Specials
:GCB:(Default Special)
Thunder (Neutral B): Charges Thunder tome. Can be charged in the air, canceled with Air-dodge. Can also be B-reversed. Can be canceled almost instantly. On the ground, can cancel charge with a roll, shield, or grab. Has multiple release levels: Thunder, Eltthunder, Arcthunder, Thoron. Can tell how charged it is based on how violent the sparks are.

The Charge works in a 'level' system, where you store the highest level you reached. You cannot 'micro-charge' your way to the next level, extra charge is lost.

Example: You're at Elthunder, trying to get Arcthunder. That takes about 1.5 seconds charge. If you do .5 seconds over and over and over, you will NEVER get to Arcthunder. It has to be a full 1.5 second charge 'block'.

:GCB:
Thunder: 4.5%. Reaches from the center of BF to the edge of the floating platform. Travels fairly fast, but no KB to speak of. Used as a brief interruption tool.

(longest distance shown)
can fire as early as frame 9/hits as early as frame 21
does 3% (unaffected by distance)
shield on frame 40 (after firing)

:GCB:(charged)
Elthunder: 10.5% damage. About 0.75 seconds charge gets to Elthunder. Elthunder travels a bit slower, but farther. Goes from far edge to far edge of BF's floating plats. Kills surprisingly early, especially on a hit offstage.

(longest distance shown)
charges in 39 frames/hits as early as frame 50
does 9%
shield on frame 35 (after firing)

:GCB:(charged)
Arcthunder: 10% damage. About 2.5 seconds gets Arcthunder, signified by black sparks. Travels the same distance as Elthunder. Starts moving slowly, but picks up speed as it travels. Kills around 120, can kill quite early if it hits near the edge of the stage or off-stage. Can be followed up by damn near anything. Consistent choices are Grab, Nosferatu, or an aerial. Can confirm into Smash attacks at some distances.

(longest distance shown)
charges in 109 frames/hits as early as frame 120
first hit does 4% (range dependent)/second hit does 1%/third hit does 1%/fourth hit does 1%/fifth hit does 1%/sixth hit does 1%/seventh hit does 1%/10% total
shield on frame 46 (after firing)

:GCB:(charged)
Thoron: 10% (or 18%). About 3.5-4 seconds for Thoron, only when it hits full charge and he goes back to neutral stance. Shoots a fast-moving horizontal bolt that doesn't seem to dissipate. Kills around 120.

Thoron seems to do additonal damage if you hold down B after casting it. It adds a little bit of extra recovery animation, but is definitely worth it.

The best I can describe it is that it turns Thoron into a channeled beam, where holding the button after casting it deals additional damage if the extra hits connect. The beam is also affected by gravity, so casting it while rising or falling will have it remain level with Robin.

Unknown maximum distance
charges in 169 frames/hits as early as frame 189
Shield on frame 44 (after firing)

:GCB:(Custom Special Move 2)
Thunder+: Consumes around double the durability, but does extra damage and knockback, as well as travelling father distance. Takes longer to charge.

Damage values:
Thunder+: 5%
Elthunder+: 11%
Arcthunder+: 13%
Thoron+: 17% or 31%!

Thoron+ (like Thoron) does additonal damage if you hold down B after casting it. This turns Thoron+ into a mega-death laser that does 31% and kills obscenely early.

Neither of the other levels of spell are particularly good in their + versions.

:GCB:(Custom Special Move 3)
Speed Thunder: Fast-charging version of thunder. Travels farther and faster, but deals less damage. Good for zoning and quick pokes. Useful against campy characters for the fast charge on Thoron.

Damage Values:
Thunder3: 2%
Elthunder3: 5%
Arcthunder3: 7%
Thoron3: 10%

:GCR::GCB:(Default Special)
Arcfire (Side B): 6-13%. The damage you get out of this depends largely on where on your opponent it bursts, as it lingers like PK Fire does. The hitbox widens as it burns, and it ignites as long as it contacts a solid object, including the stage. The burn is long enough that you can definitely follow it up, but many characters can SDI out and fall to the ground without too much trouble. To compensate, the start-up is fairly long, so missing will leave you vulnerable. If you use it on the way up from a jump, it will dissipate before it hits the ground, and thus won't ignite. Use while falling, mostly, or at stuff above you.

first hit on frame 19/second on frame 27/third on frame 36/fourth on frame 38/fifth on frame 46/sixth on frame 54/seventh on frame 62/eighth hit on frame 67
does 2%/1%/1%/1%/1%/1%/4%/12% total
shield on frame 65

The last hit of Elfire has a slightly larger hitbox than the others.
Hits on frame 87. Perhaps Elfire lasts longer if it whiffs?

:GCR::GCB:(Custom Special Move 2)
Arcfire+: 10% damage. Casts about the same speed as Arcfire1, but shoots on a very horizontal angle (~30 degrees). Has a larger explosion hitbox, but still not a kill move.

:GCR::GCB:(Custom Special Move 3)
Fire Wall: 6-7%. Turns Arcfire into a near-vertical Fireball that travels very fast, and does not burn. It lingers where it hits, and can get up to 2 hits if you hit it in JUST the right spot. On the ground, this hits basically directly in front of Robin's feet. In the air, shoots diagonally downwards at a steep angle. (~70 degrees) Decent knock-back, but won't be killing anyone until 300.

Very, very powerful zoning tool in some matchups. Very fast, and you can follow behind it pretty safely. Probably Robin's best zoning tool.

Additional Note: Fire Wall lingers long enough to reflect Dedede's Gordos. It's really amazing.

:GCD::GCB:
Nosferatu (Down B):

Robin creates a dark vortex in front of him. If the vortex hits the opponent, Robin hovers next to them and leeches life from them while they are stuck in a 'pain animation'. He also heals based on the amount of damage he does, healing additional damage if he hits them from the back.

Nosferatu is a grab, and thus can't be shielded. As such, it can be mashed out of to reduce the damage taken. It also triggers the 'grab cooldown window', so you cannot D-throw Nosferatu someone. It can be used while airborne, and has a generous vertical catch-box. This will be the basis of a lot of Robin's platform traps.

All damage numbers listed are with no mashing by the CPU.

:GCD::GCB:(Default Special)
Nosferatu: 15 damage, 13 healing (front). 15 damage, 16 healing (back). The Vortex spawns right in front of Robin, fairly quickly.

Important: Nosferatu's healing values SCALE! The more percentage you have than your opponent, the more you heal.
[collapse="Data"]
25 vs. 0 - 16 (front), 20 (back)
50 vs. 0 - 24 (front), 29 (back)
75 vs. 0 - 32 (front), 38 (back)
100 vs. 0 - 40 (front), 48 (back)
75 vs. 25 - 24 (front), 29 (back)
999 vs. 0 - 326 (LOL)
[/collapse]
Based on some trial and error, Nosferatu heals you for approximately 13% (from the front, no mashing) + [(Your HP - Opponent's HP) * 1/3].

It gets a bit wonky when the numbers get large because smash likes to use invisible partial percentages.

Neither Distant Nosferatu or Goetia scale AT ALL.

Nos1 confirmed the best.


hits on frame 16
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 57 if whiffed)

:GCD::GCB:(Custom Special Move 2)
Distant Nosferatu: 11 damage, 6 healing (front). 11 damage, 7 healing (back). NosferaTwo trades a big buff in range for damage. You can grab from almost double the range, though it gains a dead-zone in the original grab space. It also has double the start-up time.


:GCD::GCB:(Custom Special Move 3)
Goetia: 20 damage, 0 healing. NosferaThree ditches the healing aspect of the move entirely, but gains a huge buff in range and damage. The grab-box is about double the size of the normal move, and has a wind-box that pulls nearby opponents into it during its start-up period. However, the start-up is very bad, and can easily be reacted to.

:GCU::GCB:
Elwind (Up B): Elwind is Robin's recovery tool. He shoots two wind-blasts below him, propelling him upwards along with it.

:GCU::GCB:(Default Special)
Elwind: 7%, 5%. Total of 12% if you hit both blasts. Shoots both blasts below, first giving a slight hop, second giving a large one. Takes you from the middle of BF to just slightly above the top platform.

hits on frame 8/second hit on frame 28
does 7%/5% (range dependant)
enter helpless on frame 84
low raw kill potential, but can meteor opponents leading to consistent kills around 65.

:GCU::GCB:(Custom Special Move 2)
Soaring Elwind: 4% (first), 5% (second). Shoots two blasts downwards, like Elwind1, but has a noticeable delay between the first and second. The trick is that the second one goes significantly higher than normal (About 1.5 times higher, eyeballing it). Drawback is that you have almost no horizontal movement during the cast, and cannot start to fall horizontally until you reach the Apex (think like Wolf's UpB in Brawl).


:GCU::GCB:(Custom Special Move 3)
Gliding Elwind: 4% (first), 3% (second). Shoots one blast diagonally downwards behind him, giving him a large boost forward on about a 30 degree angle, followed by a short vertical second hop.

Advanced: Elwind3 Slide

If you're playing on a sloped stage like YI:B, you can Elwind3 INTO the slope, and your momentum will carry, sliding you up to as far as the middle of the stage! You can shield fairly quickly, but not instantly.

Additional Note: Elwind has a meteor hitbox on Robin's hand during the first wind-slash! Get right above (or next to, in Elwind3's case) your opponent and let it rip!

[collapse="Video Demonstration of Elwind Meteor"]
[/collapse]


Intangibles
forward roll:
shield on frame 34
invincibility ends on frame 23

back roll:
shield on frame 34
invincibility ends on frame 26

spotdodge:
can act again on frame 29
invincibility begins on frame 3
invincibility ends on frame 18

airdodge:
can act again on frame 34
invincibility begin on frame 3
invincibility ends on frame 29

airdodge landing lag:
shield on frame 23 (after landing lag)

Tome/Levin Sword Durability & Regeneration Mechanics
Robin's Levin Sword, and every individual tome has it's own independently tracked durability. Durability is a finite count, not a passively regenerating meter. When the durability runs low, you will be able to see the tome flashing in Robin's hand, indicating that it is about to break. The tome must break completely before it can begin re-charging, at which point it undergoes a 'respawn timer'. After the timer elapses, the tome reappears in his hands, indicated by a visible flash of light, regardless of what Robin is doing at the time.

Once the Sword/Tome breaks, it is forcibly 'ejected' from his inventory and falls to the ground. It pops slightly upwards at first, and during this time, you can grab the item and throw it! Additionally, the items have a hitbox on the way down! (That will hit opponents, but not you) All tomes do the same amount of damage (14-19%, regular vs. Smash-throw), while the Levin Sword does 12%. Amusingly, they are actually pretty powerful when thrown, and can kill around 150-160!

Attempting to use a currently broken tome results in Robin doing the same casting animation, but only getting a small puff of smoke that does nothing, indicating that the tome is still broken. In the case of the Levin sword, he will simply do the Bronze Sword version of the move.

Durability is consumed regardless of whether the move hits or misses, for both the Levin Sword & Tomes.

Dying will have you re-spawn with all of your tomes and the Levin Sword at FULL DURABILITY (regardless of if they were broken or not before you died)


Durability Counts (# of casts before it breaks)

Arcfire: 6 (Flashing at 5).
Elwind: 9 (Flashing at 7)
Nosferatu: 4 (Flashing at 3)

Elwind Note: 9 is for a FULL cast of the move. If you get hit or cancel the cast by some other means, you'll only shoot 1 wind-slash. In this case, it has 18 uses. I just listed 9 as that's the common 'effective' number of times you can cast it.

Thunder is a special case. The Tome itself has a 'total durability' that is shared among all versions of the cast. Tomes begin flashing when they pass 75% of their total durability.

Thunder: 20 (Flashing at 15) = 5% per use
Elthunder: 7 (Flashing at 5) = 15% per use
Arcthunder: 4 (Flashing at 3) = 25% per use
Thoron: 3 (Flashing at 2) = 40% per use
(Thanks to isoZero for correcting my initial guesses)

Thunder2: 10 (Flashing at 8) = 10% per use
Elthunder2: 4 (Flashing at 3) = 25% per use
Arcthunder2: 3 (Flashing at 2) = 40% per use (testing by 1 Arcthunder + 6 Thunder)
Thoron2: 1 = 100%. You use this, it breaks.

Speed Thunder: Identical to Thunder.

The numbers listed are for using the 'individual version' the entire time. However, as an example, you can also do 3 Arcthunders (25 * 3 = 75) and 5 Thunders (5 * 5 = 25) before the tome breaks.

Regeneration Timer:

Thunder tome:
tome regenerates in 615 frames (10.25 seconds)

Fire tome:
tome regenerates in 660 frames (11 seconds)

Nosferatu tome:
tome regenerates in 2352 frames (39.2 seconds)

Wind tome:
tome regenerates on frame 408 (6.8 seconds)

Landing from helpless:
shield on frame 29

Levin Sword

You get exactly 8 swings of any Levin Sword move, starts the warning Flash at 6.

Levin Sword: Regenerates on frame 485 (8.09 seconds)

In other words, go ham with the Levin Sword, and do not worry about conserving it. You will almost always have it, and it's not down long enough to matter, really.


Moveset Overview Video


@NinjaLink also made a video overviewing some of the mechanics discussed in this guide:


Special thanks to @Croi for the frame data.
 
Last edited:

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
^ :132:

I'm not in too much of a rush or overly curious on things, so I'll be mostly watching from shadows.
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Cool. Let me know anything you think of to ask, then, and I shall be our eyes and ears.
 

spd12

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
60
Location
Maryland, USA
NNID
PinkDodecahedron
3DS FC
0104-0418-0459
The obvious first questions, to me, would be as follows:

- How many charges does s/he have for their individual spellbooks and Levin Sword?
- Do these charges get expended for being used outside of special moves (such as when used at the end of a normal chain, or what have you)?
- Does the Levin Sword get used up for empty swings, or do you have to hit to expend the charge?
- Do the regeneration times differ for individual items, or are they all the same?

Those are the basic fundamental questions I think would need to be asked, in fact I'm not sure I even had to ask them, haha.

That said, I wouldn't be in a hurry for answers. If you're importing the game, I imagine you wouldn't get back to us within the next few days after release, likely due to the game being as fun as it looks like it will be.
 

shrooby

Let me know when I'm supposed to laugh, okay?
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
3,720
Location
Snooping as usual
NNID
shrooby
3DS FC
2320-6364-8294
I'm interested in just how much of Robin's moveset gets changed with each tome.
His jab seems to be the only thing from what we've seen, but perhaps there's more.
Maybe the changes aren't just cosmetic.
For example, perhaps Elwind-jab may have less lag on both ends, but deals less damage. While Arcfire-jab may deal more damage, but have a little start-up lag.

And see if Nosferatu-jab heals you. :awesome:
 
Last edited:

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
The obvious first questions, to me, would be as follows:

- How many charges does s/he have for their individual spellbooks and Levin Sword?
- Do these charges get expended for being used outside of special moves (such as when used at the end of a normal chain, or what have you)?
- Does the Levin Sword get used up for empty swings, or do you have to hit to expend the charge?
- Do the regeneration times differ for individual items, or are they all the same?

Those are the basic fundamental questions I think would need to be asked, in fact I'm not sure I even had to ask them, haha.

That said, I wouldn't be in a hurry for answers. If you're importing the game, I imagine you wouldn't get back to us within the next few days after release, likely due to the game being as fun as it looks like it will be.
You'd be surprised. I went hard at the demo from almost a complete researcher mind-set.

We'll see, though. I'll probably get lost in the wonders of unlocking stuff at least for the first few hours.
 

Mr. Johan

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
5,579
Location
Edmond, OK
NNID
Sonicboom93
I'm just curious on Robin's air speed and acceleration. His running speed leaves a lot to be desired, but, with him keeping pace with Mac's Jolt Haymaker, I'd like to know how his air speed compares with the rest of the cast, and if we're going be using him as if he was a Jigglypuff with projectiles.
 

.Shìkì

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
759
I'd like to know this:

Do his specials (especially Arcfire, Side-B) have IASA frames? Also, can Arcfire be comboed out from? Like, cast arcfire, rush at enemy and throw (similar to Ness' PKFire-combo)?

Actual strength of his throws?

Generally which moves can cause combos and which are killmoves?

Speed/weight/floatiness/etc.?
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
27,654
Location
/人◕‿‿◕人\ FABULOUS Max!
NNID
ShayaJP
Jigglypuff with projectiles?

Those aren't fun, you know. They're called wario's with pre-broken up bike parts (I'd assume if we're that nimble in the air that the specials would probably tend to be slowish).
 
Last edited:

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Edited OP with basic info on most of his moves. Need to further investigate specials, just taking a break to unlock stuff.
 

.Shìkì

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
759
Well the killpercentages seem really weird sometimes, I for one saw Robin kill a diddy at 75% with a LS downsmash. Did you calculate everything from the middle of FD ? Because that might be it. Also, does thoron really kill later than arcthunder? That would be incredibly weird...
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
I did middle of Battlefield on Luigi as my testing dummy.

I'll test it some more after this Classic mode run.
 

RascalTheCharizard

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
987
Wow, this is an amazing summary. Thank you so much @ Raziek Raziek !

Solid Up Air, Down Smash is a primary finisher, (uncharged) Neutral B is an interruption tool... where have I heard all of this before? :wolf:
 
Last edited:

Gamegenie222

Space Pheasant Dragon Tactician
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
6,758
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
NNID
Gamegenie222
3DS FC
3411-1825-3363
Can't wait to see the knowledge you have accumulated with this thread over time.
 

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
Exceptional collection of data, @ Raziek Raziek . Thank you for this.

Two surprises here. One, weak throws. I can't honestly complain since she seems to have a decent grab.

The second is that uair. Should be great against Puff, Peach, Samus, etc. Always good to have a reliable move for disposing of floaties.

@ Hokori Hokori or I should integrate this data to the moveset thread.
 

Hokori

Great King of Evil
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
4,553
Location
The Valley
Exceptional collection of data, @ Raziek Raziek . Thank you for this.

Two surprises here. One, weak throws. I can't honestly complain since she seems to have a decent grab.

The second is that uair. Should be great against Puff, Peach, Samus, etc. Always good to have a reliable move for disposing of floaties.

@ Hokori Hokori or I should integrate this data to the moveset thread.
You're free to do that if you'd like to. I haven't been around the Robin forum all too much lately, so I wouldn't mind if you wanted to take over the thread for me since she'll end up being your main :)
 

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
You're free to do that if you'd like to. I haven't been around the Robin forum all too much lately, so I wouldn't mind if you wanted to take over the thread for me since she'll end up being your main :)
Ah, you know me so well.

I'll take a look at it when I get back later or tomorrow.
 

•Col•

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
2,450
Also, can Arcfire be comboed out from? Like, cast arcfire, rush at enemy and throw (similar to Ness' PKFire-combo)?
You can combo out of Arcfire, yes. Not entirely sure how fast the opponent can get out of it with DI and whatever, but there's definitely enough time to follow up with at least Thunder projectiles and dash attacks and whatnot.

Two surprises here. One, weak throws. I can't honestly complain since she seems to have a decent grab.
Decent grab wut? He has one of the worst grabs I've seen in the game. Really bad range and a bad animation.

I guess maybe Sakurai wanted us to focus on using Nosferatu more? I dunno.
 

PK Gaming

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
1,315
Location
Canada
-Is ElFire a decent pressure tool?
-Is Nosferatu viable under any circumstance (outside of 4v4 of course)
-Will Robin ever have to worry about recovering with his Up B?
-Do you find yourself careful counting Levin Sword usage? It seems integral to his gameplan (at least during the kill phase)
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
-Is ElFire a decent pressure tool?
-Is Nosferatu viable under any circumstance (outside of 4v4 of course)
-Will Robin ever have to worry about recovering with his Up B?
-Do you find yourself careful counting Levin Sword usage? It seems integral to his gameplan (at least during the kill phase)
1) Elfire is not a great pressure tool. It has enough recovery that jumping forward and using it will definitely get you punished if you miss. It's like PK fire.
2) Absolutely. Nosferatu is a command grab, and has a HILARIOUS hitbox. More info on that later.
3) Yes and no. You get 9 or 10 uses of Elwind before it breaks, and it regenerates in about 6 seconds. Keeping Robin off the stage seems like it's going to be difficult, so you can most likely burn it on stage and get it back in time, or simply get hit out of it and might be able to use it again before you actually die, because Robin is super floaty.
4) No, you can go balls out with the Levin Sword. It has a decent amount of durability (7-10 aerials, 5-6 Smashes off the top of my head), and it regenerates in 7 seconds. Levin attacks are STRICTLY superior to Bronze ones, and you'll want to use them literally all the time. LSBair, LSUair will be Robin's two best tools for spacing, for sure.
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
You're free to do that if you'd like to. I haven't been around the Robin forum all too much lately, so I wouldn't mind if you wanted to take over the thread for me since she'll end up being your main :)
Exceptional collection of data, @ Raziek Raziek . Thank you for this.

Two surprises here. One, weak throws. I can't honestly complain since she seems to have a decent grab.

The second is that uair. Should be great against Puff, Peach, Samus, etc. Always good to have a reliable move for disposing of floaties.

@ Hokori Hokori or I should integrate this data to the moveset thread.
Alternatively I can take it over. I'm going to be dedicating almost all my time to Robin, I think, and I intend to write an actual match-up guide and such when I have opponents to fight.

(I also was one of the mods to volunteer for these boards, if you remember)
 
Last edited:

Hokori

Great King of Evil
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
4,553
Location
The Valley
Alternatively I can take it over. I'm going to be dedicating almost all my time to Robin, I think, and I intend to write an actual match-up guide and such when I have opponents to fight.

(I also was one of the mods to volunteer for these boards, if you remember)
Yeah, I remember. And I definitely like what you've done with your research so far and I'm aware that you are a competitive player. You'll be granted ownership of the topic soon enough.
 

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
Decent grab wut? He has one of the worst grabs I've seen in the game. Really bad range and a bad animation.
Really? So the range has been nerfed from what we saw in the trailer? Another thing I saw that could have been changed is Elwind seems quicker, likely to address the concern I had that Robin could be too easy to spike.
Yeah, I remember. And I definitely like what you've done with your research so far and I'm aware that you are a competitive player. You'll be granted ownership of the topic soon enough.
And the deed is done!

The moveset thread is now in @ Raziek Raziek 's evil Nova Scotian clutches. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

Change it as you see fit!:066:
 

Daniee

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
46
Location
Michigan
So if I'm understanding your write-up correctly, down air with the Levin Sword spikes if you hit people with the bottom portion of the hitbox?
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
So if I'm understanding your write-up correctly, down air with the Levin Sword spikes if you hit people with the bottom portion of the hitbox?
That is correct. Unsure if true spike or meteor, but it makes em go down real fast-like.
 
Last edited:

Iron Maw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
140
NNID
ironmaw
3DS FC
1091-8076-0883
Excellent thread! Thank you for taking the time to find all this stuff.

In a way adding a bit to the known info, I was Shofu's stream earlier and when he played Robin he managed to follow up a d-throw> aerial smash on DK! He did multiple times and every attempt was guaranteed hit. So at least possible follow ups on heavies are confirmed. :)


Also, does thoron really kill later than arcthunder? That would be incredibly weird...
I was WTF when I read that too at first.

But if you think about how these two moves work I realized this probably a balancing mechanic. While the damage between the two is the same, Thoron has the advantage of being faster and hitting lots of opponents on the same time. Arcthunder on the other hand has much stronger hitstun (going by the reveal tralier) , lower kill % so it's probably designed to be used against one person. So theoretically Arcthunder would be what your more likely to use in one-on-ones and Thoron in FAs. That said, throwing out a occasion Thoron there to mix things up isn't an bad idea either to keep the other player guessing after he/she has been conditioned to expect Arcthunder.

Of course we still need much more testing done, but this just a food for thought.

You can combo out of Arcfire, yes. Not entirely sure how fast the opponent can get out of it with DI and whatever, but there's definitely enough time to follow up with at least Thunder projectiles and dash attacks and whatnot.


Decent grab wut? He has one of the worst grabs I've seen in the game. Really bad range and a bad animation.

I guess maybe Sakurai wanted us to focus on using Nosferatu more? I dunno.
They didn't really look that bad on Shofu's stream and he himself they were okay IIRC. I saw much worse from several other characters.
 
Last edited:

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Excellent thread! Thank you for taking the time to find all this stuff.

In a way adding a bit to the known info, I was Shofu's stream earlier and when he played Robin he managed to follow up a d-throw> aerial smash on DK! He did multiple times and every attempt was guaranteed hit. So at least possible follow ups on heavies are confirmed. :)
I'll mess around with it to confirm it myself.

I was WTF when I read that too at first.

But if you think about how these two moves work I realized this probably a balancing mechanic. While the damage between the two is the same, Thoron has the advantage of being faster and hitting lots of opponents on the same time. Arcthunder on the other hand has much stronger hitstun (going by the reveal tralier) , lower kill % so seems it's probably designed to be used against one person. So theoretically Arcthunder would be what your more likely to use in one-on-ones and Thoron in FAs. That said, throwing out a occasion Thoron there to mix things up isn't an bad idea either to keep the other player guessing after he/she has been conditioned to expect Arcthunder.

Of course we still need much more testing done, but this just a food for thought.
I think this is exactly the rationale behind it. Arcthunder is much harder to hit with due to its slow travel speed.
 

Iron Maw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
140
NNID
ironmaw
3DS FC
1091-8076-0883
Man I wish Robin didn't have such a crappy dash attack, it's one thing I'm really bummed about him. :/

Thankfully he doesn't really need it, but hopefully we can find some use for it down the line.

I think this is exactly the rationale behind it. Arcthunder is much harder to hit with due to its slow travel speed.
Yeah, the irony is that Thoron is more likely to hit out of the two since it's so deceptively fast. lol BTW, can you test how many uses the other thunder tome variants have?
 
Last edited:

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
Can it be confirmed if Thoron is reflectable or not?
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
I remember testing it quickly in the car, but I didn't write it down at the time.

I believe it was 20 Thunders, 9 Elthunders, 5 Arcthunders, and 3 Thorons. I'll double-check it later.
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
788
Thank you for this information. There's some questions in this I have that didn't get answered about some of Robin's moves.

-Nosferatu has how many uses? Is the damage a guaranteed number each time, or is it similar to Wario's Chomp where the opponent can break free faster/later depending on percent? When each of the healing "auras" surrounds Robin how much is recovered?
-What is the max damage for each sword charged smash?
-How far is the standing grab range?
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Completed all the info on specials and Weapon/Tome durability that I have at the moment. Will get charged Smash #'s in a bit.
 

Fex13

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
152
do you think robin has good combo potential? from what ive read so far i dont really think so...
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
do you think robin has good combo potential? from what ive read so far i dont really think so...
Not really, no. Maybe some stuff with D-throw, small set-ups out of Arcfire.

Robin's going to be heavy on aerial spacing, zoning with Thunder, Nosferatu mix-ups, and reliance on a poking/keepaway game until he can hit the magic number of ~130 where LSBair, LSUair and LSSmashes start reliably killing.
 

Iron Maw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
140
NNID
ironmaw
3DS FC
1091-8076-0883
I've always saw Arcfire as being one of key options for combos with Robin given that the move lasts for days. Something like Arcfire>Nosferatu sounds like it can do some good-to-serious damage. Arcfire>Arcthunder looks to be another good one. There is also stuff like Thunder/Elthunder>Arcfire>Wind (lower %)/Fire Jab (higher %) or Nosferatu that might be possible.

Speaking a bit more on Arcfire apparently it can kill 110%:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=...TPp_k_ykybY&feature=player_detailpage#t=13740

But I'm not entirely sure how much being at the top of stage had influence in that.

D-throw>Upsmash also seems like a thing on middle weight characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kDLJTf7c5ro#t=81
 
Last edited:

Unicorn

The Most Majestic
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
147
Location
Washington
NNID
SenseiCrumb
Though we can't really say for absolute sure until we know all of Robin's custom specials, he definitely seems to be more of a setup character rather than a comboing character. I am really hoping the customs are diverse new moves like Palutena's and not just property changes like most characters, but that seems unlikely.
 

Iron Maw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
140
NNID
ironmaw
3DS FC
1091-8076-0883
Pretty much as it's her main gimmick.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

Holy Maiden Warrior
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,973
Location
Marvel Land ~ Eternally Slumbering
NNID
IndyGo98
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483
Astounding work and analysis @ Raziek Raziek ! Didn't expect the jabs to be different after all. Strange though why Thunder doesn't have it's own jab.

However I think there's one problem here and that is we don't have entirely clear way how to count how many "uses" each spell in Thunder takes from the total amount of uses in the tome- at least approximately. To explain this easier I'll now refer the tomes by their initials: (T), (ET) (AT) (TH). Also I'll substitute the "total amount of uses" with "magic units"

Like, if we would suppose that Thunder has 20 uses if using all 20 T:s alone, then we'd know that using T takes out one unit from the total amount of magic units in the move. So how much do rest of the spells take from the "total amount"?

It'd be really helpful during heated matches because I'd be able to count how much magic I have left and how much each spell will take from the total amount in order to not whiff if trying to use a spell that I have not enough amount of magic left, or if to resort using stronger spells if having decent amount.

Basically:

Magic Units in Total = 20(?)
Thunder (T) = 1
Elthunder (ET) = 2 or 3?
Arcthunder (AT) = 5
Thoron (TH) = 6


Can you see if these are right?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom