Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day

[Smasher 101]

Banjo & Kazooie's chances: 5%

The head of Xbox seeming to be ok with it makes them plausible and they're very popular, but I still don't see it as at all likely for a character currently owned by a competitor to appear in Smash.

Want: 100%

They immediately became my most wanted characters as soon as I saw the tweet. I absolutely love these guys, the two Banjo-Kazooie Nintendo 64 games are really good, with the second still being among in my top ten favorite games of all time. They'd fit in the cast so well, and I'm sure they'd be a blast to play as. I still don't think it'll happen, but I'd be very, very excited if I'm proven wrong.

Isaac prediction: 42.39%
Much more likely than most of the other newcomer possibilities.

Nominations: Dixie Kong x5

 

[Sid-cada]

Banjo and Kazooie - 0% - Any third party at this time will receive a flat zero from me. I don't care how famous, popular, requested, associated with Nintendo, gaming cred, etc. you have, I just don't see any third party character making it as DLC due to the complications of working with third parties. Money, time, and the risk factor just makes me shake my head.

Want - 50% - All you old guys getting nostalgic and yet here I am thinking that any of you who owned an N64 is a 30-something who was around when Pong was new and shinny. This guy was around for the Game-Cube days, and I still say I have no connection to them. Take him if ya want, but I don't have feelings either way.


Isaac Prediction - 47.89% - Go theories about how you aren't in the game!

Nominations - Roy (FE) X5

 

[walph]

Banjo-Kazooie
Double 5%
I never played BK and for this reason i don't care about the characters, but they have a great design.

Isaac Prediction: 60%

Nominations:
x3 Dixie Kong
x1 Bandana Dee
x1 Inklings

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Banjo and Kazooie: 2%

++Very popular
++Iconic in nature
+Associated with Nintendo


-Haven't been used in a while
------------------------------------------They are Nintendo's direct competitors.

Yeah, they ain't happening.

Want:85%

Regardless, they would be amazing to have in Smash. Unlike what seems to be the majority here, I have played the two N64 game.

I like the first one better but both were great!

I'd welcome them wholeheartedly.

Isaac Prediction: 49%

He seems to be the kind of character which people think is extremely likely or terribly unlikely.

Phoenix Wright x 3
Wolf x 1
Snake x 1

 

[FalKoopa]

&

CHANCE: 0%
WANT: 0%

Who on earth would want a musical instrument in Smash? This choice is absolutely ridiculous.

Wait a minute.

Ahem.

​

CHANCE: 5%
WANT: 75%

The biggest obstacle to their inclusion is the fact that they are owned by Microsoft, a direct competitor to Nintendo in the console market. If not for Phil Spencer's comment, his chance rating would have been a flat 0%.

As for want, I owned very few games on the N64, and Banjo-Kazooie wasn't one of them, unfortunately. However I did get an opportunity to play the game sometime after I joined Smashboards, and I fell in love with it. It also helps that I like their designs, and it was good enough for even Sakurai to take inspiration from while designing the Duck Hunt Duo.

Isaac Prediction: 60%

Nominations: Rayman x 5

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Banjo-Kazooie

Chance: 15%

And that's being very generous. Third party characters by nature make things complicated. Doubly so here, since there's a lot special about this. I'll start by acknowledging that they've got a decent amount of support in the US polls, and have a great nostalgia factor. And that's it. The head of XBox liking the idea of them in smash is of no consequence. What is he supposed to say? "Ew, I really don't want another company to pay me to put my character into a game and give me loads of free publicity..." Besides, look at all the publicity he got just from saying he likes the idea.
The one thing going for the pair is the look. Snake just did not look like he fit in Smash bros. Argue if you want, but he really stuck out like a sore thumb in Brawl - how many other gritty, perma-stubble, gung-ho military men were in the game? The closest is Captain Falcon, and that's pretty far removed. Banjo, however, could stand next to DK and DHD and look perfectly normal. The only problem here is they might look a bit too much like DHD, and we as a fanbase did make a bit of a stink about clones, so Nintendo may be leery to put in someone who is pretty close.
On the other hand, Banjo's been out of work since 2008, and all of their games have been on X360. True, they started on Nintendo, which may count for something, but they've been off Nintendo's books since '01 and off its consoles since '05, and even that game was just a random racing game.
Now, and this is true for all third party proposals, it comes down to the dollar signs. Is Nintendo, a company whose last console didn't quite do as well as hoped, going to be willing to pay another company, specifically a rival, sums of money to make their character as a guest DLC? Seems like a major loss for Nintendo, and a major gain for the third party, and that is never going to happen. Now, if the third party tried to pull off the same trick that Sony/Marvel Studios is doing with Spidey, that could get somewhere. Basically, the only way I see any third party getting in is if the other studio gives Nintendo the rights for the low price of $0 - including the DLC, and the amiibo stuff (maybe if they got a small cut of the amiibo sales) - in exchange for free publicity. Let's face it, Smash sells things, and you need look no further than Marth in Melee for that.
So the question is, would Microsoft be willing to lend Banjo out to their direct competitor for only publicity and possibly a cut of amiibo take-ins? I guess if the head of XBox likes the idea, that's a good sign, but we still haven't seen any financial talk, which has a tendency to sour dreams like this.
​

Want: 35%

Honestly, I don't like guest characters in anything. Smash, with it's all-star matchup makes it a little more palatable, but still... I feel that the only guests we should have should represent gaming history, and I don't know if Banjo is that big of a character to have made a huge splash on the industry. Having said that, his art style is great, and fits beautifully, so it won't be so bizarre. Banjo did also start as a Nintendo exclusive, so he's got that.
I never played Banjo-Kazooie, but I wouldn't see it as the worst thing in the world for him to get added. There are just so many more characters I'd rather have in the admittedly limited slots.
​

Predictions: Isaac
Chance: 65.0%, Want: 65.0%

Nominations:
Concept - NPC Promotions x5

 

[Arcanir]

Oh Banjo-Kazooie, why did the buyout have to happen?

Chances: 3%
I don't think the tweet really matters that much. Yeah Phil did say it was possible, but considering how being in Smash would benefit both Banjo-Kazooie and Microsoft, it's no surprise that he would support him as that gets them a great amount of support for their character. However, it doesn't really address all of the things that would have to go into getting that character. Sakurai has already stated that it's hard enough to get a Third Party character, and Banjo-Kazooie is not only a character that doesn't belong to a Nintendo IP, they're a character owned by their competitor as a First Party franchise, which adds another layer to this situation. Plus, due to being owned by their competitor, there's not much that Nintendo gains out of it compared to Microsoft as they are the ones that have to negotiate and agree to Microsoft's terms and pay for the royalties while on top of that, Microsoft gets free advertisement for their character and franchise for their own console. In turn, Nintendo doesn't gain much out of it as the character doesn't really benefit them in having him in the game outside of pleasing their fans. So I don't think Nintendo would really go for it even if Microsoft was completely cooperative, especially when other characters from their own IPs could pull in good numbers without as much hassle.

It breaks my heart to say it, but 3% is the highest I'll go. It's a chance, but it's not a strong one and I can't say Phil's tweet changes that much about the situation to really get them in the game.

Want: 80%
These are two characters that I grew up with, I played both Kazooie and Tooie with by brother and loved them. I enjoy those characters, they make up something in my childhood that I'll never forget and it was sad that they and Rare were bought out by Microsoft. So I would love to see them in the game, they're great characters to me that I feel would be fun additions to Smash.

 

[N3ON]

​

Chances: TEN PERCENT

Because everybody wants them but Nintendo. And if you don't want them then you're wrong.

YEAH I PUT TEN PERCENT. YEAH I KNOW IT'S LESS LIKELY THAN THAT. BUT I PUT TEN PERCENT BECAUSE I'M SUPER BIASED. Fight me.

Want: ALL OF THE PERCENT

Because unlike the rest of youse they've been my number one since they were actually relevant to gaming

aka before Melee was a thing.

aka when Rare was awesome and Microsoft stuck to Windows 98.

Isaac Prediction: That he'll get in.

NOMNOM
Banjo-Kazooie again x4
Isaac even though he's next x1

 

[McDuckletts]

Fat bear and annoying bird: 5% Chance
Being owned by one of the big boys of the industry is tough, ain't it?
100% Want
Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie were the games that got me into videogames and the discussion of videogames; they practically made me into who I am today...whether that's for better or for worse, I'll let you decide.

Isaac prediction: 43.71

Shovel Knight X5

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo Kazooie: 0% in chance.
It will never, ever happen. There is no way Nintendo will ever allow a character from a competitor platform to be playable... and that's all that needs to be said about their chance of being playable.

Want:
Growing up, I was a huge fan of Rare and I loved everything they touched on the SNES and N64 (of the ones I have played). Banjo-Kazooie was the first Rare title I have ever played in my life and in fact was among the very first video games I have ever played. Banjo-Tootie I owned when I was a child and it is among my Top 5 favorite Nintendo 64 games. I love both games with a passion and I am so disappointed with what happened to them over the years. Even thought they will never happen, it won't stop me from wanting these characters in.

I give them a want of 95%.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Ah, the Bear and Bird, fond memories of my childhood... Playing the N64 in bed often eating a pie, I'm not sure if I can make this a rhyme!

If Microsoft hadn't bought out Rare, they'd already be playable...
Chance in reality: Extremely minimal - 3%. I'm in the boat that despite the approval from Microsoft, I doubt Nintendo would go with the option of bringing Banjo & Kazooie since they're no longer associated with Nintendo anymore. They could approve, but who would benefit the most from this?

Want in reality: At most, 14%, sadly. A big part of my childhood, yes, but they're not what I remember them to be because of Microsoft. I remember my confusion when I first saw Nuts & Bolts: "Wait, what's Banjo doing on a Microsoft platform!?!" I'd rather want them back with Nintendo before I see them playable.

In some alternate world where the buyout never happened, max percentages for chance and want. Lots of potential, fun and certainly a nostalgia overload.

Nominations for the day:
Roy X4
Impa X1

 

[WeirdChillFever]

They're owned by Microsoft, despite being heroes.
That's why I rate them with double zeroes.

EDIT because I forgot the predictions:

Isaac 49%. It'll will be a day of contradictions!

Nominations shouldn't be forgotten.
x5 for NPC's playable that are left rotten.

Gruntilda Ratings FTW.

 

[IvanQuote]

Banjo and Kazooie:

Chance: 35%
Promoted by 2 companies and a lot of people in the west, he has a lot of support. Unfortunately he's third party now under Microsoft, so that lessens his chances greatly.

Want: 95%
About as much a K Rool, still less than Isaac and Quote.

Isaac predict:
Chance: 60%

Want: 75%

Nom: Quote (Cave Story) x5

 

[jahkzheng]

Hmm, seems I missed the Rool vote. I'll add that in a spoiler because I'd like to do it even if it doesn't count toward the average anymore.

I'll also be using a basic format for assessing characters. I'll analyze their....

These points are for making a best estimate of their chances, although the weight of each category is still unknown at this time. Other unforeseen factors could keep the character from being added. I'll likely post this at the start of all my assessments.

Spoiler

King K. Rool

Popularity
K. Rool is very popular. He regularly gets the most votes of any newcomer, and that popularity is international.

Importance
K. Rool is the major villain in many Donkey Kong games, and the most iconic villain in the franchise. His villain status may put him behind Dixie in line however if she gets enough support. Sakurai seems to have a preference in adding "good guys" first and he's shown interest in adding more female reps as well.

Uniqueness
K. Rool has an opportunity to have a very unique moveset. He uses many strange weapons and attacks in his Donkey Kong appearances. He's also a big character, of which there are few, being comparable to Bowser in size, perhaps even rivaling him. I imagine he will be like a Dedede in slowness and mobility with the tricks of a Bowser Jr. He'll likely be a character with very slow and punishable kill moves that'll need to create openings with his projectiles and stage control to land.

Relevance
One of the few areas where K. Rool is weak. He hasn't been in a Donkey Kong game in more than just a few years. And it's not because the series is dormant. He's been replaced with other villains in recent Donkey Kong games. He's gotten some notice through VC titles however.

Representation
The Donkey Kong franchise is arguable underrepped by most people's accounts. It's a long and successful franchise and yet it only has two characters in Smash. There is competition for who will be the next new rep from Donkey Kong however, but no other franchise has as solid a claim to perhaps two additional characters as DK, other than maybe Star Fox. Depending on how many DLC characters we actually get, Rool and Dixie could be added. As it stands, Rool looks to be poised to get in first based on his popularity and uniqueness, while Dixie has an edge in relevance and her popularity isn't far off. She could arguably be quite unique too although it's less obvious for her character. Both are arguably of equal importance. In short... yes, imo Donkey Kong could use much more representation.

Limitations
K. Rool has no real limitations. He's a Nintendo property although his creation was a collaboration. He's not in the game already as something other than playable either. His biggest barriers are his relevance and the possibility of having to compete for representation with Dixie. Both of which don't seem to much of a big deal, as his popularity alone has made him at least somewhat relevant again and if we get enough DLC we could well get Dixie AND K. Rool. Sakurai is a fickle beast though. We'll see how much our desires have an influence on this DLC thing.

Final Assessment

Chance: 75%

He likely has the best odds of any newcomer... assuming my chance measuring paradigm is sound.

Want: 50%

I'm not hugely keen on him like some. I think DK needs more reps though and he certainly seems like the popular choice. And I like the idea of a big unique character joining the roster. I have many other characters I want more first... including Dixie if it had to come down to a decision.

Banjo-Kazooie

Popularity
Banjo-Kazooie has a following for sure. They've always been a fan favorite since back when they were on Nintendo systems. This won't be the first time by a long shot that they've been a Smash hopeful. And with the support of Phil Spencer, blood is in the water. Banjo-Kazooie's stock is at an all time high. We'll see if it stays there however.

Importance
Banjo and Kazooie are the main duo of their very own eponymously named games. It doesn't get any more important than that in terms of what they mean to their own games. In terms of gaming in general, they are a N64 icon and a fan favorite going way back. If they weren't, they wouldn't still be in this conversation.

Uniqueness
Before Duck Hunt became a thing, I might've said that Banjo-Kazooie had the opportunity for an extremely unique moveset. Now there's a character that more or less has the same novelty. Banjo and Kazooie have some unique tools however that could separate them from Duck Hunt. Admittedly, I only played the original once and it didn't stick with me well enough for me to say what all they could do. Their concept is unique enough however that they get points here.

Relevance
Sadly, Banjo-Kazooie is pretty irrelevant. Since moving off of Nintendo systems the franchise has all but died, and that was a long while ago. There also appears to be no plans for them in the future. They do have the benefit of being the face of their franchise, but they aren't the face of a third party company necessarily, so they don't have the "Mega Man" factor to save them from their irrelevance so easily. Plus, compared to Mega Man, they simply don't have the popularity or importance to compare.

Representation
As I've stated a couple times now, they are the face of their games. The games are named after them. They would be the sole rep of their franchise. In short, yes... this franchise could use more representation and Banjo-Kazooie is the only choice. Whether this franchise "should' be represented is a whole other thing. The fact is that Banjo-Kazooie would also be a 3rd Party representative too and the competition there is very stiff since it includes many big and popular names from various titles.

Limitations
Oh boy, here's the big one. They aren't Nintendo's anymore. The 3rd Party shackle has been slapped on. It remains to be seen how dire a sentence being a 3rd Party character actually is. It's safe to say however that 3rd Party representation will be made very very very carefully. And with so many 3rd Party characters competing for spots, the odds are bad. Even if we got just one, Banjo-Kazooie is by no means in the best position to take advantage of that. Being Microsoft owned makes them a much harder sell to Nintendo than say the popular indie 3rd Party reps like Shantae for example, who also beats them in relevance. Other 3rd Party characters are much more loyal to Nintendo as well. Banjo-Kazooie has not had a game on a Nintendo title since being bought by Microsoft and I believe has only cameo'd once in a Nintendo game since then. May need to fact check more on that.

Final Assessment

Chance: 2.5%

I believe 3rd Party limitations are just too much for Banjo to overcome, especially being the property of a competing company that doesn't have strong loyalty to Nintendo. Couple that with his irrelevance and his chances are very low.

Want: 30%

I'm not that interested in opening the flood gates to 3rd Party characters. And even if we were promised a couple 3rd Party spots, I'd have other characters in mind. I don't feel they have quite the importance or relevance to beat out other 3rd Party characters and I believe loyalty to Nintendo should be rewarded first as well. That said, I can't deny that they'd be a unique character and their design would fit right in.

~~~~

Prediction for Isaac

Chance: 60%
Want: 70%

~~~~

5 Points to Krystal!

 

[A10theHero]

Banjo and Kazooie:
3%
+Has a history with Nintendo
+Nostalgia
+Microsoft appears to be willing to cooperate with Nintendo
-Third Party
-Owned by Microsoft (Is Nintendo willing to help a competitor? Probably not, but we don't know for sure.)
-Hasn't had any recent game (But this point doesn't seem to be really relevant to the inclusion of a character in Smash--history is more important since Smash Bros. does celebrate the long way Nintendo has come.)

Personal:
90%
The only character I really want in Smash is Spyro. But anyone else is okay with me too. I never played any Banjo and Kazooie games, so I don't know much about their moveset potential or anything. But it'd still be interesting if they were in Smash 4.

Prediction for Isaac:
45%

Nomination:
Spyro the Dragon x5

 

[Delzethin]

Ratings are being given, opinions are clashing, and I'm procrastinating as usual. It's as if we haven't been gone for seven months. >_>

-♪-

Banjo & Kazooie
Chance: 2%
First of all, I need to get this off my chest: I don't think any third-party characters have a significant chance. There's a lot of money required to get the proper licensing for a character, to where they have to be a major draw just to make them worth it, and doing so for what amounts to an optional purchase would be super-risky. Then there's also all the extra red tape involved with running every aspect of the character by their creators to make sure they're adequate, a massive amount of back-and-forth far more complex than my limited understanding of it and another deterrent for a dev team that's probably smaller right now and likely wants to keep things lower key. And even beyond that, company interactions also matter. Why would Nintendo want to collaborate with a company that they've been on poor terms with lately, or one who's outright screwed them over, when there are so many other character options that wouldn't require that of them? There're so many problems with bringing in another third party character that I just don't see them feeling like it's worth it.

With Banjo & Kazooie? Take that second-last sentence, and replace "company they've been on poor terms with" with "direct competitor". Nintendo is extremely unlikely to pull the trigger on a deal that'd benefit Microsoft more than them, and Microsoft knows that. Phil Spencer's tweet wasn't any more than a means to get people talking about one of Microsoft's characters, an appeal to nostalgia that might help them later from a marketing standpoint.

The bear and bird may have had a pair of fondly remembered games back in the day...but it can't make up for whose banner they're under now.


Want: 15%
I never had the chance to play the first Banjo-Kazooie...but I did get to rent the sequel a few times, and it was really fun. The moveset potential is there, and they certainly have the means to bring something unique to the roster even compared to the Duck Hunt duo.

However...that just can't make up for the fact that they're Microsoft characters now. Putting them in Smash now just...wouldn't feel right.


Isaac Prediction: 58.25%
This one won't be as high as K. Rool, but it'll be up there, and now, justifiably so!


Nominations: Krystal x5

 

[PK_Wonder]

Only on Day 2, and we're already rating the most conflicting and puzzling situation any candidate could be in. Here's my analysis on the situation:

Banjo & Kazooie would get an astounding 0% from everyone if Phil Spencer hadn't opened the controversial floodgates shortly after the ballot opened. Since Spencer did do that, everyone is second guessing and wondering if their inner Smash character fantasies will actually come true. Everyone from the creators of B&K at Playtonic to just about every person who has played their N64 games/is a Smash fan is now campaigning for their inclusion. Unfortunately, it's the most complicated situation imaginable.

Spencer could have said what he said simply for the good PR and Banjo talk this will produce, knowing fully well no serious discussions or agreements will be made; he's just adding fuel to the upcoming Banjo-revival hype train. Contrarily, he could genuinely believe it is a mutually beneficial move for both companies and wants to actually see this happen.

If it's the latter scenario that Spencer feels, which is certainly feasible enough itself, that doesn't take into account Nintendo's feelings on the matter. I don't know if Microsoft will seriously approach Nintendo, or they would wait to see if Nintendo is going to make the move. Either way, Nintendo is aware of Spencer's statement. That doesn't mean they are interested in putting a rival's first party character in their first party franchise. While Banjo & Kazooie alone would surely sell some Wii U's and copies of Smash, it could just as easily end up selling more Xbox Ones and Banjo-Threeies than anything, as it will both introduce current Nintendo players to them and push certain nostalgic fans over the edge to buy the other console. Nintendo isn't against a mutually beneficial decision, but if it benefits the other company more than them, I can't see where they would do it.

We also have the fact that NoA may be right next door to MS HQ and up for it, but NoJ would have the ultimate decision for such a giant agreement to take place. The paperwork and licensing rights could be insane. What about the amiibo? Who pays who and how much for what, and how must Banjo and Kazooie be represented? (There are several people who might have vastly different opinions on this point). While these hurdles already exist at a smaller level between Nintendo and Capcom/Sega/Namco, any agreement with these third party companies is truly mutually beneficial. The characters get exposure, but all appear quite liberally on Nintendo consoles, and aren't competing against Nintendo. Banjo's exposure helps only future Microsoft games besides Smash itself.

This would be just about the biggest collaboration between two first party titans in gaming history. Fan demand just might make the difference, but all the demand in the world can't make the two businesses come to terms on how they want the specifics of the complex agreement to go down. They just might be willing to try though. If they can make it work, where the behind-the-scenes, ripple effect benefits aren't too one-sided, it would be a bold business decision, and would make stock increase for both. The chances that the stars align and both companies are bold enough to do it?

Chances - 7%


Want - 100% As I mentioned yesterday regarding DK64, the N64 Rareware collectathons made me into not only the gamer, but the person I am today. I would be at peace to have Banjo & Kazooie on a Nintendo console one last time. (Playtonic's upcoming game will surely be the next best thing, and I fully intend to support the Kickstarter when it launches).

Solo Ice Climbers x3, Henry Fleming x2

 

[ShinyRegice]

Banjo-Kazooie chances: 0.5%
The fact that they were originally created for Nintendo and most of their fanbase comes from Nintendo as well save them from getting a flat zero, but there's still a lot to do until they can come into Smash. First, they need overwhelming fan support, at least on par with the one that allowed Sonic to be in Brawl despite the fact he wasn't planned in the initial roster. Second, they need Nintendo's approval, which means that they must accept to approach a direct competitor and find an agreement that would benefit both companies. And even then if it happens I have a feeling that they would rather save them to hype the next Smash rather than making them a DLC. Phil Spencer's tweet made their supporters more vocal and optimistic, but it also made us realize that the true obstacle is Nintendo's approval, not Microsoft's.

Banjo-Kazooie want: 100%
I never played Banjo's games. And I'm kinda ashamed about this because the first console I ever owned was a Nintendo 64. (Though I had a NES and SNES prior, but they were borrowed) Despite the lack of personal connection towards them, I admit they are high profile characters with huge Nintendo relevance, and even though they're now owned by a rival company, their Nintendo origins and fanbase make them very deserving regardless imo. Also not long ago I considered buying their original N64 games to fix what I consider a missing part of my childhood, and this was only a few days before Phil Spencer's tweet
And for "huge Nintendo relevance", I mean HISTORICAL relevance. Just saying.

Isaac prediction: 46.80%
People will put emphasis on the ballot and important support from fans, but there will also be pessimism from people who don't believe Nintendo sees the series as Smash worthy.

Nominating:
Playable newcomer: Wonder Red x1
Concept: DLC custom moves x3
Concept: custom moves choosable from CSS (character selection screen) through patching x1

 

[Kalimdori]

All y'all putting 0% chances for ANY character are being a bit naive. You are basically saying that it is completely impossible, there is no imaginable scenario where this could work in any way shape or form. Which isn't something you could possibly know.

Likewise, if anybody puts 100% for any character they are being equally foolish, for the opposite reason (Something I learned the hard way)

Anywho!

Banjo Chance: 20%

I don't put NEARLY as much stock in the "Cause Microsoft" argument as seemingly everyone else does, but obviously it does matter. Come to think of it it's pretty much the ONLY thing that matters at this point. Banjo's got high popularity, plenty of potential to be fun to play as, he's basically the face of the N64, and Nintendo's reassured that all chararcters, not just Nintendo characters, can be voted for, so we know those votes are being taken into consideration at the very least. If he was still owned by Nintendo, he would be a character by now, there's no doubt in my mind about that. But he isn't owned by Nintendo. Which complicates things.

So we know Microsoft is interested in getting Banjo into Smash (No duh), so I think it's safe to say that they will at least TRY to open up negotiations with Nintendo. Chopping off 20% right here that Nintendo will outright refuse, and another 60% that a deal won't be reached. Which leaves 20% that they will be able to negotiate some sort of bargain.

I'm seeing a ton of people here writing off a possible bargain as "Nintendo will have to pay Microsoft, it's not worth the cost when other they can just make other characters", stuff along those lines, and I gotta say, you guys gotta be a bit more creative!

Say Microsoft IS making Banjo Threeiee (Spelling?) at this time. Getting Banjo into Smash Bros would be the perfect marketing move to generate hype for that game. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft paid NINTENDO to get Banjo into Smash. At which point the tides would turn, it would be foolish NOT to include Banjo in Smash, Nintendo would essentially be making money off of a Microsoft product, while Microsoft is getting tons of hype generated for it's new game. Win-Win for both parties.

Or consider another possibility, Nintendo pays Microsoft for the rights, and Microsoft throws in permission to put the Banjo games on the Virtual Console. Or Nintendo and Microsoft split the profits of Banjo in Smash, but Nintendo keeps all profits for the Banjo Amiibo.

Or ANOTHER possibility (And I'd give this a .1% chance in actually happening, but you never know, NOTHING is impossible) Banjo Threeie is announced, Microsoft releases it on their systems, then ports it to the Wii U a few months after the Xbox One version releases.

I'm sure there are other ways a potential deal could go down, but the fact remains that there is a possibility that a deal COULD go happen. And while I don't know that much about this sort of thing, the amount of hype this would generate and the potential benefits for BOTH companies makes me think that Banjo may actually have a fighting chance now. Nowhere near likely, but he's got a chance.

Want: 100%

I've never played a Banjo game. My only exposure to Banjo & Kazooie is occasional gameplay snippets in Youtube videos. I have no personal connection to the character whatsoever.

BUT GODDAMN I WANT THIS TO HAPPEN!

Before that tweet from Phil Spencer, Banjo was always the character that you brought up when you were trying to think of characters that would NEVER be in Smash Bros. RIDLEY (ouch) was more likely then Banjo was. It was the ultimate pipe dream, something that could only happen in our dreams.

Except now it isn't.

I want this too happen, so badly. Not just for the fact that it would make so many people happy, but because it would make history. Nintendo and Microsoft, rival companies cooperating to make something awesome happen. I have a bit of a grudge against console wars, I adore video games, regardless of the console, and it would be nice to show people that deals like this are possible. Like Spiderman getting into a Marvel movie, except I care SOOOOOOO much more about video games

Isaac Predictions: 55%
Won't be as high as K. Rool, but I expect a decent score nonetheless.

Noms:
x5 NPC Character Playable

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Chance: 10%
People want them. Its obvious. They have one of the largest followings of any smash 4 candidate. However, there is the massive obstacle of their inclusion of licensing. The fact, however, that Microsoft is open to it and Nintnendo is considering all ballots does help.
Want: 100%
I loved Banjo Kazooie. I think despite Duck Hunt, they can have a great moveset of their own.

Nominanting Snake X 5

Isaac 51%

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Banjo & Kazooie
Chance - 10% (There's definitely a lot of support out there for them but they have some pretty stiff competition from other 3rd parties. I don't feel comfortable speaking in absolutes like some people so I wouldn't say never but they have a lot to overcome.)

Want - 100% (I played the original Banjo Kazooie as a child, so there's a lot of love there. It's pretty much just nostalgia though. I haven't played any other Banjo Kazooie game since then.)

Edit: Forgot my nominations...

Inkling x2
Bayonetta x2
Chibi Robo x1

 

[YoshiandToad]

Damn it, took me two days to realise this was back. Derp.

Banjo-Kazooie
Chance: 9%
Being generous here. I just don't think Nintendo has much to gain from this unless they buy this duo back from Microsoft. Purely fan demand and Phil saying it's A-okay with him get it that high. Not like he wouldn't say it's fine. This couldn't be a better advert for Microsoft.

Want: 85%
I like the duo...but I never played their games growing up. Closest I've come is playing Nuts and Bolts(which I hated) and Diddy Kong Racing(which I loved). They're certainly a much wanted third party, and had the split not happened they, alongside maybe Conker even, could of made it into Smash already.

Prediction:
Isaac: 60%

Nominating:
4 X Captain Toad
1 X Impa

 

[Deleted member]

Duck Hunt 2.0:

Chance: 5%
All he has is popularity and Phil's tweet, but just because head of Xbox said something, doesn't mean the actual team in charge, Nintendo, will do it. But he does have a chance now.

Want: 34%
I like him, but I already have Duck Hunt, so he comes off as bland to me, even though he would play differently.

Prediction: Isaac: 63%

Nominations:
Bandana Dee x5

 

[A Distant Demon]

Stupid microsoft. . .

Anyway
chance 1% everyone else said it buy oh well. owned by one of 2 direct competiters in the business. Plus he is pretty much a has-been at this point.

Want 90% banjo kazooie is absolutely amazing. I even like nuts and bolts. With all the moveset potential they would be so great.


Nom
npc becomes playable x3
wonder red x1
viridi x1

 

[Deleted member]

The Directory has been updated.

Banjo-Kazooie
Chance: 0%
I am not putting any stock into this Tweet. Yes, someone from Microsoft gave the OK, but there are several other factors that are going against him.
1. He's a newcomer. This is a bad thing as he needs to have a moveset be created for him, unlike Mewtwo and Lucas who already have created movesets. Though, he does have the benefit of having a part of his moveset already be created with the games.
2. He's third party even still, meaning the rights to get him would be pretty difficult. But that's not the main issue here...
3. He's owned by Microsoft! One of Nintendo's competition! If Sakurai wants to put Banjo in, he has to go to Microsoft offices and request this. One guy gave the OK, but I don't think the entirety of Microsoft is OK with this.
Nintendo doesn't benefit too much from putting in Banjo-Kazooie. The Wii U is in a poor state and putting in Banjo would only make matters worse; they would be promoting a rival console! As I mentioned before, getting 3rd parties is hard; getting Banjo would be a more difficult task since Nintendo would be asking one of their rivals.
I always ask myself this when it comes to third parties: Are these characters legendary and iconic? Do they deserve to be next to Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man? The answer: I don't know. Banjo is not as popular or as iconic as the 3 3rd parties in Smash 4 and he had a major fall from grace with Nuts & Bolts. On the other hand, they are popular and iconic with Nintendo fans; the large majority of Banjo fans are Nintendo fans.
Ultimately it really comes from Microsoft owning them that I think that they won't get in. I don't think Nintendo would be OK with doing such a thing.
Want: 100%
Yet, I wouldn't mind them. I am against Snake because he doesn't have a long history with Nintendo. Banjo is probably, if not definitely, worse in this regard, but they feel like Nintendo characters from a more terrible home.
I finally played the original on the Xbox 360 and I had a great time! I loved the exploration, gameplay, graphics, and music! However, I felt guilty playing it because I was playing this N64 classic on the Xbox when it really should be on the Wii or Wii U. So, to me, they are Nintendo characters with a different home.
Playing the game made me sad in one regard... they weren't in Melee. I just wonder how different things would be if they made it in.

Isaac Prediction: 58.33%
His biggest problem is the fact that he is MIA, maybe Dark Dawn, and the fact that Golden Sun barely received any content. I'm curious how this will play out.

Nominations:
Bandana Dee 5x

 

[Diddy Kong]

Shamelessly stealing N3ON's banner for a second (like even Playtonic Games is doing now) ...

Chance: 50%

Whoa wait what? 50%? Yes.

Am I crazy? A little, of course
Am I insane? Only by society's standards
Am I seeing a BEAR AND A FRICKING BIRD HAPPENING IN SMASH!? Maybe... Maybe not!

Yeah I can see them either totally embracing the chance, or let it slide and pretend it never happens while crying in a corner wishing Rare could've stayed with Nintendo. Or are we the fans actually doing the second thing? Who knows.

Anyway, since Mr. Microsoft himself actually supports the idea this could actually happen. And actually happening things shouldn't get rated with about 10% chance of happening. I feel. It will either happen, or not. Simple as that.

Microsoft was the most stubborn with the usage of Rare's characters. If it was up to Nintendo, Banjo-Kazooie would've stayed with Nintendo, and Rare would still be making Donkey Kong games- most likely. It was also noticed that Banjo-Kazooie was one of the most requested characters for Melee, and it was even suspected they where supposed to be in, but the buy-out kept them (and Diddy) from making it in.

So yeah, I think that if the ballot has Banjo-Kazooie as one of the more requested characters, they could very well make it happen.

Want: 100%

The Return of the Rare Era must happen! King K.Rool, Dixie Kong, Banjo-Kazooie, Krystal, Conker I want them all.

Nominations:

Impa x 5

 

[4theRECORD]

I forgot to predict Banjo's chances, didn't I? ...Aw well.

So, anyway...
Banjo & Kazooie (Banjo & Kazooie)

First, want. I am going to just say that I have absolutely no connections at all with this character. At all. My first console was a Gamecube so I didn't play Banjo on the N64. And I still haven't bought the HD remake on Xbox Live either. And there isn't a special case of sorts like I had with K.Rool. Finally, he's a third party. I would'nt have minded him back in Melee where he would've made sense, but...

Eh, just really can't care about this duo.
Want:1%

Next, chance. But to be honest, he really dosen't excel much here either. While his fanbase is fairly big enough for a third party, he's a third party. That alone will make him hard to join. But he isn't just any third party, noooooo, he had to be the property of fricken Microsoft. Letting someone in from a rival company just to do some free advertisement to their new game only coming out on their console? Nah. Nintendo's a kind company, and they certainly don't seem to hate Microsoft, they're not that stupid. I could see it maybe happening if Microsoft was kind enough to release a new Banjo on the 3DS(as it dosen't directly compete with them) or release the old Banjo's on Virtual Console, but it's not likely.

Don't expect it people.
Chance:1%

Issac predictions: 60%
I think he'll do modestly. He really dosen't have anything going against him besides K.Rool, and the fanbase would probably bring the ratings up a bit.

Nominating x5

 

[Pacack]

Damn it, took me two days to realise this was back. Derp.

Banjo-Kazooie
Chance: 9%
Being generous here. I just don't think Nintendo has much to gain from this unless they buy this duo back from Microsoft. Purely fan demand and Phil saying it's A-okay with him get it that high. Not like he wouldn't say it's fine. This couldn't be a better advert for Microsoft.

Want: 85%
I like the duo...but I never played their games growing up. Closest I've come is playing Nuts and Bolts(which I hated) and Diddy Kong Racing(which I loved). They're certainly a much wanted third party, and had the split not happened they, alongside maybe Conker even, could of made it into Smash already.

Prediction:
Isaac: 60%

Nominating:
4 X Captain Toad
1 X Impa

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN FOREVER!

 

[FalKoopa]

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN FOREVER!

You should have visited the Capt. Toad thread.

 

[Pacack]

You should visited the Capt. Toad thread.

Good idea!

(I haven't visited any DLC threads, but I'd love to see my Brigade again.)

 

[BluePikmin11]

You guys say Banjo and Kazooie is not happening, yet you give them a percent of a chance anyway.

Banjo and Kazooie Chance:
1%
I'm only putting a percent only because of Phil Spencer's tweet that broke the internet by storm. That aside, they have a smaller chance of happening than any other popular indie characters suggested in the ballot only because I don't see Nintendo promoting Microsoft IPs at all. Not even their significance to gaming is enough to fix their largest problem, it's arguably a bigger problem than getting Ice Climbers to work on the 3DS. Plus there is the high chance Sakurai may easily
dismiss these votes for Banjo and not hear about Phil Spencer's tweet at all.

Overall a very low chance for the duo but it's not impossible.

Banjo and Kazooie Want:
5%
I only had a brief time playing Banjo and Kazooie and Tooie on the N64, and the brief time I had personally irritated the crap out of me. I honestly thought the graphics, music, gameplay, and the concept of just collecting puzzle pieces are a bad blend altogether. That, and the lag, it's annoying noises when dialogue pops up, and humor ruined the experience for me. Their inclusion probably won't excite me that much, I'll probably enjoy the reactions more.

Isaac Prediction: 24.7% You do not know how excited I am for this day. I expect some overrating to happen.

x5 Jibanyan

 

[A Distant Demon]

Blue doesnt like bk's music.

Is it really possible for him to be less hipster at this point

Getting dissapointed by n64 graphics and the concept of collecting McGuffins. wat.
You must hate mario 64

 

[Chandeelure]

My favorite thing about BK is that everything has eyes and makes funny sounds.

 

[Kenith]

Banjo Kazooie:
Chance: 5%.
Want: 50%.

5% is probably extremely generous. What it comes down to is whether or not the Banjo hype is worth promoting another console. I honestly think that including Banjo-Kazooie will do far more good than harm, but Nintendo may just see it as Microsoft propaganda. Which, by the way, is what I think Phil Spencer's tweet about Banjo-Kazooie is.
If Banjo-Kazooie gets into Smash, it will be part of something more elaborate, such as Nintendo and Microsoft cooperating to put the N64 Banjo games on Wii U Virtual Console. But I strongly doubt that Nintendo will make this deal just to include a competitor's character that not everyone will even buy.

I have yet to play these games, so I'm neutral, but I would love to see this happen because of how wildly people will react.
-----------------------------
Isaac: Prediction: 65%.

Nominate: Anna x3, Wolf Link & Midna x 2

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Banjo and kazooie

Chance 15%

It would have ben 3% but someone from microsoft wants him as dlc that phil guy (and also playtonicgames)

3rd party but morely 4th party now.

Theres only one improvise thats possible for smash 5 and thats whoever the spirtual successor thats being made by playtonic games.

Want 80%

I would love it to happen

Prediction
Isaac 30% - 70%

 

[BluePikmin11]

Everything having eyes is pretty much a common trope in media now.
And I personally think Banjo and Kazooie executes it poorly.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Banjo-kazooie: chance 5%
Microsoft.

Banjo-kazooie: want 75%
They aren't my most wanted character personally, but I know many people who have banjo as their most wanted character, like my brother who would probably die from hype if banjo was announced.

Nominate Professor Layton x5

 

[WeirdChillFever]

My favorite thing about BK is that everything has eyes and makes funny sounds.

Play Mario Kart: Double Dash!!

 

[Aetheri]

So many pessimistic views...I feel BK has a better chance than most people seem to think...
-While yes they are owned by Microsoft, we are talking about Banjo Kazooie here, not Master Chief, they are icons of a Nintendo game that is not a platform exclusive title....they have a memorable history with Nintendo...
-Phil Spencer said yes...Obviously, he's not stupid...but that means more to their chances than you might think...but people who may say that Nintendo will not collaborate with a competitor seem to forget that their competitor has that interest to collaborate...
-If a mutual deal can be met than even though yes it does help Microsoft, Nintendo can still benefit by putting BK in smash...if Phil is going to be unflexible with his terms then it won't happen (Snake was excluded because Konami did not hold their end of the bargain afterall), but if he truly genuinely wants this to happen then I see some sort of mutual agreement happening...
-Finally the fans want them, bottom line...sure there are other characters that have a bigger demand than they do but Sakurai can't ignore the fact that the fans do indeed want them...also remember Sakurai takes the fans demands more seriously than most people would think and has indeed taken risks (from a business standpoint) in the past when it came to smash...

Mind you being third party characters does indeed dwindle their chances because we are not sure what intentions are placed on dlc or how many characters will be added (so far we have two and are likely going to get at the very least two more, but how far will they go?)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Banjo and Kazooie Want:
5%
I only had a brief time playing Banjo and Kazooie and Tooie on the N64, and the brief time I had personally irritated the crap out of me. I honestly thought the graphics, music, gameplay, and the concept of just collecting puzzle pieces are a bad blend altogether. That, and the lag, it's annoying noises when dialogue pops up, and humor ruined the experience for me. Their inclusion probably won't excite me that much, I'll probably enjoy the reactions more

You actually dislike the series?

What? Do you hate sunshine and puppies too?