Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day

[Chandeelure]

-Roy:

Chances: 97%
Want: 50%

-Nominations: Pichu X5

 

[Delzethin]

@ colder_than_ice : My ratings tonight are split in two. The second half of them doesn't involve the exact thing we're covering, so only count the first in each set.

-♪-

Roy

Chance:
-As Full Character: 35%
-As Alternate Skin: 55%

Let's get this out of the way, first and foremost: Yes, the victory music files are there. They've been confirmed by multiple reputable sources. A designated "Roy" file with the Fire Emblem victory theme definitely hints toward the Young Lion being involved somehow.

But here's the thing: we don't know exactly how he's involved. This isn't as open-and-shut a case as it can seem at a glance. The code doesn't tell us any more, so the best we can do is look at the context.

Roy's reputation in the fanbase is...polarizing. On one hand, you have the detractors voicing their displeasure at anything even related to him...and on the other you have the rabid fanboys and -girls flooding Youtube comments with line after line of "ROY'S OUR BOY". Most fans are somewhere in the middle, indifferent to him. Things have gotten more complicated with Lucina a thing, though. While the detractors are still out of line, there does seem to be a general consensus that a second full clone of Marth would be unnecessary.

Ordinarily that wouldn't matter if the dev team thought otherwise...except this is DLC we're talking about. Optional content that needs to sell enough to justify the amount of work done. So why would they go forward with a character that such a significant percent of the fans would hesitate on purchasing because they felt he was redundant? From a marketing standpoint, it doesn't make any sense.

But wait? Couldn't that be solved if they revamped Roy's moveset to be more unique? It's an idea in theory...but then you look at the DLC characters we know of. Lucas looks the same as always despite being a semi-clone of Ness in his last appearance. Mewtwo's moveset wasn't changed at all even though we've seen four more Pokémon generations and countless new Psychic-type moves come into existence since. Why would Roy get special treatment that not even the super-requested Lucas and single-most requested Mewtwo didn't get? It doesn't make any sense.

Maybe it wasn't uniqueness, though. What if it was ease of transition? They could've used the leftover Brawl files as a stepping stone to make him easier to create than others! But...there aren't very many Roy-related files in Brawl's final version. We don't know how far they got, and they might not have done much work on him at all. As Melee is too different from Smash 4 to directly transfer move data over, all they'd have is a point of reference...which wouldn't save them any of the work they'd need to program him, meaning he wouldn't be "easier" at all. It doesn't make any sense.

But what about Sakurai? He's shown signs of bias before, and he's a well known Fire Emblem fan! Could his personal preference have pushed Roy forward? Except...despite any "Sakurai bias", Roy was still low enough priority in Brawl to be the second one out after Mewtwo. If Sakurai could reel himself in there, we can't assume he woudn't here. It doesn't make any...you get the idea.

There are so many unanswered questions, so many red flags, that I can't guarantee he must be a distinct character...not when Roy being an alt for Marth or Lucina makes so much more sense. An alternate skin would take significantly less time to program than a full character: all they'd need are model alterations, new voice clips, and the changes to make it so his name showed up when you picked the costumes in the CSS and victory screen, and they'd be on to testing. Since it'd be less time-intrusive, Alt!Roy could also cost less, and more people would be willing to purchase a cool, less expensive alternate costume set than a character they felt was redundant. And since--while I'm not 100% sure on this--Roy's fanbase seems to care more about Roy himself than his Melee playstyle, they wouldn't be less interested in Roy if he were an alt. It's a win-win situation...more than Clone!Roy would be, at least.

Keep in mind, everyone...this situation isn't as black-and-white as it's been jumped to conclusions about. We saw full well last July that there are always possibilities none of us are aware of.


Want:
-As Full Character: 5%
-As Alternate Skin: 50%

Here's how I see it: some characters--mainly ones from series with large amounts of characters--only have a window of relevance. Once that window is gone, it's best to move on unless they already have a major presence and have something unique they can continue to provide. Roy...doesn't have either. Fire Emblem: Binding Blade has been out for 13 years now, and the closest thing Roy has had to presence in his home series is through one small part of Awakening's DLC. His Melee moveset was cloned from Marth's...deliberately so, since they only had the available time to make clone characters. As a standalone character...he doesn't interest me at all.

On top of that, to see a character who hasn't been relevant anywhere in years, whose moveset would very likely still be heavily derived from Marth's if the lack of changes to Mewtwo and Lucas mean anything, return just because...because would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It could also mean that they're favoring veteran characters for DLC solely based on seniority...and when there are so many compelling newcomer options out there, seeing them get shoved aside because they didn't come first...would really be disappointing.

As an alt, though? I'd be cool with that, especially if he was based on his look from the Awakening DLC. Roy's fans could still see his character in Smash again, and the developers could focus more resources on more unique character options.


Ridley Prediction: 4.75%
Something tells me the scores will be more realistic this time. All the votes in the world can't save him from being an integral part of a stage.


Nominations: Wolf Link & Midna x5

 

[Ura]

Like I said Ridley and Dark Samus are pretty much the only two...I've seen Rundas and Sylux (and god forbid Anthony Higgs), but they're minor characters in their respective games, while I would enjoy Rundas I can't see him getting more than an Assist Trophy and that's really generous...(perhaps we could trade Rundas as an Assist for a Dark Samus DLC...no... I tried...)

Yeah, DS is an AT and Ridley we already know the situation with him. Metroid only being rep'd by Samus isn't that bad to me personally. Considering that a lot of her games revolve around her being a "lone wolf".

 

[SchAlternate]

Hey there, might as well drop by and drop this here.

ROY - Redhead Swordsman Supreme!

CHANCE: 97%
As a veteran fighter, Roy already has a huge priority over a grand majority over the cast. It's likely that the only DLC characters we'll be getting prior to October (when the ballots close down) will be veterans. And with Mewtwo and Lucas out of the way, the higher votes are now both Wolf and Roy.
Despite being a mediocre unit for the most part of his game, Roy still has his followers, most notably in Japan. Heck, he's even liked by some Fire Emblem fans, despite the fact that people love to claim that they don't! I mean, granted they do have a reason to dislike him, but hey, if it weren't for him, you probably wouldn't have been so interested in Fire Emblem back when it was Japan exclusive, right?
Oh and there's the leak and stuff that no one cares about, but whatever.
Overall, Roy has a high chance of making the cut out of sheer demand alone. And the demand certainly is there.

WANT: 100%
Well, duh, of course I want my main boy to be back! Of course, I'd like him to be slightly more differentiated from Marth, and to get some of the critical flaws in his playstyle looked at, to further define him as a rushdown character.

RIDLEY - Galaxy's Biggest Menace!

PREDICTION: 7%
I'd honestly be surprised if people gave him any score higher than 1. Hell, I bet that 7% will be from one person alone! Poor Rids. Went from being one of the Big Five (him, Little Mac, Palutena, K. Rool and Mewtwo) to such a low position. It's not gonna help the fact that he gathered such a reputation over the years...

NOMINATIONS
LIP - The Adorable Flower Fairy Princess! (*5 points)
... Look, don't judge. That's just my main vote.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ordinarily that wouldn't matter if the dev team thought otherwise...except this is DLC we're talking about. Optional content that needs to sell enough to justify the amount of work done. So why would they go forward with a character that such a significant percent of the fans would hesitate on purchasing because they felt he was redundant? From a marketing standpoint, it doesn't make any sense.

I could say that about Lucas.

I could say that about Wolf.

I could say that about Mewtwo even.

Plus, that's ignoring the fact that the people that would buy him would still be greater.

And even though the current alts don't have their own designated files for victory themes...DLC is still a situation we haven't seen before, and could warrant a different style of organizing due to being optional. There could just as easily be a reason they had to put Alt!Roy's file separate. Perhaps it's a quirk in the game's code that requires it. Perhaps it was so the files wouldn't get tangled up amidst the ones for the base game. Perhaps it was just so they were easier for the programers to access. These were accidentally left in, after all...maybe they hadn't even been properly organized yet.

This is ignoring how files really work.

If Roy was going to be an alt, then there would be no reason to even give him a unique victory theme.

It would just be Marth's or Lucina's. There would be absolutely no reason to add anything involving a new victory file.

I understand not thinking Roy is a shoe in.

But not for that reason.

This is denying reality and trying to warp it because you don't like what it spells.



I'll make my rating later...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Geez, what is with the salt on this thread lately? Seems every time we rate a character that has a vocal fanbase, people basically get flamed for having opinions. So some people don't see your favorite as very likely. That's their opinion. Remember Rosalina got a 10-20 percent chance on the original thread? The score we come up with means nothing.

Tomorrow's gonna be fun...not. Inb4 people are complaining that others shouldn't be giving Ridley above a 5% chance since he's a boss and too big. Bonus points if it's the same people complaining that [insert character here] was rated a chance lower than 50% since they have great potential or whatever...

[/rant over]

So onto controversial topic #2...


Chance: 90%

So the files kind of seal it. To play devil's advocate, we don't know much about those files, only that they're sounds. May I remind you that if sound files were all it took to have a character in the game, we'd be talking about Brawl's Mewtwo, Dixie, and PraMai. I don't know if those files truly mean that he'll be next, or if it means that they were planning him way back when, and then used the dummied out slot to put Mewtwo in - That would explain why most data is gone except some legacy sound byte. Particularly since it's not a new file, it's just a copy of the other Fire Emblem themes, and Ryu's isn't even remixed in the slightest.
What Roy does have going for him is a fanbase. So many people are requesting Roy it's not even funny. He was DLC in Awakening, and a lot of people have been begging for him.
However, he's not been around too many times - he's only got two major appearances: Binding Blade and Awakening. One of which never made it out of Japan and the other was DLC. (He did feature in another Fire Emblem, but it was his FATHER that was important) Most of his fanbase comes from either Japan, or from Smash Melee.
And nobody's getting a perfect 100 from me until their DLC date is announced. Just like nobody will get a 0. Anything can happen...
​

Want: 5%

Sorry, not this one either. I know we're not getting much DLC, so I'm kinda picky about it. In Melee, he was a clone. Despite how everyone wants to argue how differently they were played, it is a solid fact that Roy was a Marth clone. Considering Mewtwo had very few changes from Melee, Roy will be the same way. And I have the same problem with that that I have with Paper Mario (or Young Link as well, for that matter) - TWO IS MORE THAN ENOUGH! Honestly, I don't feel Roy brings much new to the table.

"We need a swordsman from Fire Emblem!"

"No no, someone who is similar, but with different sweetspots!"

"No, I mean someone with a fire-enchanted sword!"

"No, I mean, we need a redhead."

However, he is a veteran, and I do support veterans returning. I just prefer to support veterans with unique movesets. At this point, Ice Climbers, Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are the only uniques to be excluded, and Wolf is sufficiently a semi-clone. Roy fits with Pichu and Young Link - a veteran clone who would be best served by being an alternate. But then again, Dr. Mario fits there beautifully as well...
​

Predictions: Ridley

Ooh boy, this'll be tough. I have a feeling most people will drop their 'anything can happen' rules just to give him zeroes.
Chance: 9.25%, Want: 50.0%
​

Nominations:

x5
​

 

[AlphaSSB]

Before you scream marth clone (via is a triple clone situation)

and are full clones of
is a semi-clone of , but is too different to even be considered a semi-clone.

Sorry, but the Star Fox trio doesn't relate to that of the 'Marth Trilogy' at all. (I don't know if that term is a thing, but if it isn't, it is now!)

 

[Ura]

I could say that about Lucas.

I could say that about Wolf.

I could say that about Mewtwo even.

Plus, that's ignoring the fact that the people that would buy him would still be greater.


This is ignoring how files really work.

If Roy was going to be an alt, then there would be no reason to even give him a unique victory theme.

It would just be Marth's or Lucina's. There would be absolutely no reason to add anything involving a new victory file.

I understand not thinking Roy is a shoe in.

But not for that reason.

This is denying reality and trying to warp it because you don't like what it spells.



I'll make my rating later...

Pretty much this. I would say that the Smash community is 5:1 when it comes to Roy. For every 1 hater, theirs a good 5 supporters.

and are full clones of
is a semi-clone of , but is too different to even be considered a semi-clone.

Sorry, but the Star Fox trio doesn't relate to that of the 'Marth Trilogy' at all. (I don't know if that term is a thing, but if it isn't, it is now!)

And that's were decloning comes in to play.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say though.

If Roy is unchanged from his Melee self.

He's actually more unique than Lucina by a lot.

His Neutral B is now shared by no one.

He's as cloney as Doc.

 

[Kalimdori]

I wish to preface this that I mean absolutely no hostility or ill will towards you. I just disagree with almost everything you are saying

@ colder_than_ice : My ratings tonight are split in two. The second half of them doesn't involve the exact thing we're covering, so only count the first in each set.

-♪-

Roy

Chance:
-As Full Character: 35%
-As Alternate Skin: 55%

Let's get this out of the way, first and foremost: Yes, the victory music files are there. They've been confirmed by multiple reputable sources. A designated "Roy" file with the Fire Emblem victory theme definitely hints toward the Young Lion being involved somehow.

But here's the thing: we don't know exactly how he's involved. This isn't as open-and-shut a case as it can seem at a glance. The code doesn't tell us any more, so the best we can do is look at the context.

Roy's reputation in the fanbase is...polarizing. On one hand, you have the detractors voicing their displeasure at anything even related to him...and on the other you have the rabid fanboys and -girls flooding Youtube comments with line after line of "ROY'S OUR BOY". Most fans are somewhere in the middle, indifferent to him. Things have gotten more complicated with Lucina a thing, though. While the detractors are still out of line, there does seem to be a general consensus that a second full clone of Marth would be unnecessary.

Ordinarily that wouldn't matter if the dev team thought otherwise...except this is DLC we're talking about. Optional content that needs to sell enough to justify the amount of work done. So why would they go forward with a character that such a significant percent of the fans would hesitate on purchasing because they felt he was redundant? From a marketing standpoint, it doesn't make any sense.

But wait? Couldn't that be solved if they revamped Roy's moveset to be more unique? It's an idea in theory...but then you look at the DLC characters we know of. Lucas looks the same as always despite being a semi-clone of Ness in his last appearance. Mewtwo's moveset wasn't changed at all even though we've seen four more Pokémon generations and countless new Psychic-type moves come into existence since. Why would Roy get special treatment that not even the super-requested Lucas and single-most requested Mewtwo didn't get? It doesn't make any sense.

Maybe it wasn't uniqueness, though. What if it was ease of transition? They could've used the leftover Brawl files as a stepping stone to make him easier to create than others! But...there aren't very many Roy-related files in Brawl's final version. We don't know how far they got, and they might not have done much work on him at all. As Melee is too different from Smash 4 to directly transfer move data over, all they'd have is a point of reference...which wouldn't save them any of the work they'd need to program him. It doesn't make any sense.

But what about Sakurai? He's shown signs of bias before, and he's a well known Fire Emblem fan! Could his personal preference have pushed Roy forward? Except...despite any "Sakurai bias", Roy was still low enough priority in Brawl to be the second one out after Mewtwo. If Sakurai could reel himself in there, we can't assume he woudn't here. It doesn't make any...you get the idea.

There are so many unanswered questions, so many red flags, that I can't guarantee he must be a distinct character...not when Roy being an alt for Marth or Lucina makes so much more sense. An alternate skin would take significantly less time to program than a full character: all they'd need are model alterations, new voice clips, and the changes to make it so his name showed up when you picked the costumes in the CSS and victory screen, and they'd be on to testing. Since it'd be less time-intrusive, Alt!Roy could also cost less, and more people would be willing to purchase a cool, less expensive alternate costume set than a character they felt was redundant. And since--while I'm not 100% sure on this--Roy's fanbase seems to care more about Roy himself than his Melee playstyle, they wouldn't be less interested in Roy if he were an alt. It's a win-win situation...more than Clone!Roy would be, at least.

And even though the current alts don't have their own designated files for victory themes...DLC is still a situation we haven't seen before, and could warrant a different style of organizing due to being optional. There could just as easily be a reason they had to put Alt!Roy's file separate. Perhaps it's a quirk in the game's code that requires it. Perhaps it was so the files wouldn't get tangled up amidst the ones for the base game. Perhaps it was just so they were easier for the programers to access. These were accidentally left in, after all...maybe they hadn't even been properly organized yet.

Keep in mind, everyone...this situation isn't as black-and-white as it's been jumped to conclusions about. We saw full well last July that there are always possibilities none of us are aware of.


Want:
-As Full Character: 5%
-As Alternate Skin: 50%

Here's how I see it: some characters--mainly ones from series with large amounts of characters--only have a window of relevance. Once that window is gone, it's best to move on unless they already have a major presence and have something unique they can continue to provide. Roy...doesn't have either. Fire Emblem: Binding Blade has been out for 13 years now, and the closest thing Roy has had to presence in his home series is through one small part of Awakening's DLC. His Melee moveset was cloned from Marth's...deliberately so, since they only had the available time to make clone characters. As a standalone character...he doesn't interest me at all.

On top of that, to see a character who hasn't been relevant anywhere in years, whose moveset would very likely still be heavily derived from Marth's if the lack of changes to Mewtwo and Lucas mean anything, return just because...because would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It could also mean that they're favoring veteran characters for DLC solely based on seniority...and when there are so many compelling newcomer options out there, seeing them get shoved aside because they didn't come first...would really be disappointing.

As an alt, though? I'd be cool with that, especially if he was based on his look from the Awakening DLC. Roy's fans could still see his character in Smash again, and the developers could focus more resources on more unique character options.


Ridley Prediction: 4.75%
Something tells me the scores will be more realistic this time. All the votes in the world can't save him from being an integral part of a stage.


Nominations: Wolf Link & Midna x5

Firstly:
Roy is a much easier character to make then almost any other possible character on the roster. Doesn't matter if only half the people who bought Mewtwo bought Roy, he'd take only a fraction of the work Mewtwo took to implement. So, no, from a marketing standpoint it makes perfect sense.

Secondly:
Roy is one of the most requested characters to get into this game, even before DLC was a thing. Understandable, seeing as he and Marth introduced the world to an entire franchise, and Roy was easily the more popular of the two among the casual crowd. So again, if a character is easy to create and highly requested, why not make him into a fighter?

Thirdly:
Roy will not be changed from Melee. I am almost certain of this. Sakurai doesn't like changing too much about a character in order to alienate the fans of that character, or rather, that playstyle. (Hello, Ganondorf!) This works well in Roy's favor, as A) He'll be much easier to make, and B) Marth has gone through some changes since Melee, changes that Roy would not share, which would help differentiate him.

Fourthly:
Doctor Mario was separated from Mario because Sakurai didn't want to alienate fans of the character from Melee. Lucina was separated from Marth because she was a tad shorter and her moves are balanced throughout her blade. Dark Pit was seperated in order to slightly change one move, and give him a unique (Well, Zelda's) final smash. Roy's power lies in the hilt of his blade, he has fans from Melee, and a few of his moves are slightly different then Marth's, assuming they use Melee Roy, effectively fulfilling all 3 reasons Sakurai has split an alt into their own character. So why on earth would he suddenly go back on that and make Roy into an alt, especially when it's a clone that people are actually asking for?

Fifthly:
I was going to comment on your comments about how Roy's files could be separate, but Swampasaur already beat me to it

 

[Ura]

Yeah, the files thing are a pretty much given now. If he were to be an alt like Alph, he wouldn't have that file included in the list.

And even though the current alts don't have their own designated files for victory themes...DLC is still a situation we haven't seen before, and could warrant a different style of organizing due to being optional. There could just as easily be a reason they had to put Alt!Roy's file separate. Perhaps it's a quirk in the game's code that requires it. Perhaps it was so the files wouldn't get tangled up amidst the ones for the base game. Perhaps it was just so they were easier for the programers to access. These were accidentally left in, after all...maybe they hadn't even been properly organized yet.

Just saw this and i'm not buying it (no offense).

If it were the case, 1.0.7 wouldn't have the files still in.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Roy
Chance: 90%

Want: 50%

Prediction: Ridley chance: 5% want: 90%

Nomination: BB bandit trio X5.

 

[ShinyRegice]

Roy chances: 99.6%
Short version:

Nuff said.

Long version: with the Roy-related data found in the 1.0.6 update of the 3DS version, I'm convinced that he's very likely to be a DLC character. This completely caught me off-guard, because I originally had serious doubts about the idea of Roy coming back in SSB4 through DLC, mostly due to the fact most of what defined him was given to other characters.

Marth clone? Check. (Lucina)
Sword's sweetspot at its base? Check. (Shulk)
Fiery neutral B with potential of self damage? Check. (Ike)
Roy? Check. (Bowser Jr.)

However, I admit he deserves credits when it comes to his role about importing Fire Emblem to the West, which means he has more legacy than your average FE lord. It was even recognized in a Fire Emblem Awakening DLC named "Smash Brethren", where he stared as an opponent alongside Ike. Plus, he was originally planned to come back in Brawl, as proven by leftover data. Despite my skepticism about Roy's chances to come back, I still acknowledged his merits as one of the characters who helped making Fire Emblem something big even outside of Japan, and as such I recognized that he could potentially come back despite his issues. Even though I didn't expect that to actually happen, looks like I just overestimated how much impact these would have on his chances.

I don't give him an absolute 100% because there's the possibility that those files were put in the game before Sakurai's team decided to definitely put Roy back as DLC and they were still debating about if he was worth putting back at the time, but I don't think it's likely at all. In my opinion if there's data directly related to Roy in the game, it means he was fully planned coming back, and still is. Same applies for Ryu, btw.

Speaking of which, I think there really should be a "Post-leak rating" mention in the results post alongside Roy's chances rating (as well as Ryu when we will be rating him). Because even though this data dump doesn't absolutely confirms that Roy and Ryu are definitely coming regardless of what happens these ratings are going to be a bad reflection of our perception of their chances in the first place anyway.

Roy want: 16%
Even though I recognize Roy's role about making Fire Emblem a relatively big series even outside of Japan, I didn't care about him actually coming back in Smash. I thought he was an outdated character who didn't really stand out from other Fire Emblem lords and protagonists outside of his Smash relevance. That said, now that he seems very likely to come back, I'm curious about how his moveset will be handled in SSB4; while Falco and Ganondorf felt like redundant clones in Melee for me besides a few noticeable differences they actually felt like distinct characters from their original in Brawl, and I'm looking forward seeing Roy tweaked in a similar manner. Plus a trailer with the Roy's hope track would be very hype. Though I'm not really thrilled by his return, he makes me feel like "Okay, didn't really want or expect that, but whatever."

Also I want to go back in the past to tell everyone Fire Emblem will get five characters in Smash 4 which none of them are Chrom and see everyone laughing at me

Ridley prediction: 1.78%
Tomorrow's going to be a bloodbath for sure. I'm expecting a lot of flat zeroes.

Nominating:
Concept: DLC characters get custom moves (including Mewtwo through patching) x5

 

[IceAnt573]

Roy Chances: 75%

Roy Want: 40%

I don't like Roy. Bad character and a bad unit. The character I consider to be the biggest marketing ploy of a Smash character. Added before his game was even released in Japan just to make sure Fire Emblem is able to stay alive as a franchise after its original creator (Shouzou Kaga) left and Intelligent Systems had no idea what to do next. Would have much preferred Leif. However, I do appreciate that Roy is in part why my favorite franchise is still going strong today (well...for 11 years until Awakening did the same thing Marth and Roy did). Smash has made me like Roy more than I would have so I wouldn't mind Roy back, but I'd totally trade Roy for Tiki, Anna, the Black Knight, or Kamui in a heartbeat if Roy wasn't the only option for another Fire Emblem character. A 5th one some may question, but of course...if only to make people angry at the amount of FE characters.

Oh and did somebody suggest Sakurai take out Lucina? Yeah...keep dreaming.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Pretty much this. I would say that the Smash community is 5:1 when it comes to Roy. For every 1 hater, theirs a good 5 supporters.



And that's were decloning comes in to play.

Except based on trends it won't happen. The odds of Roy being decloned are slim-to-none. The best case scenario I see is him getting an original Final Smash, but honestly it'll probably just be cloned from Ike instead.

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh and did somebody suggest Sakurai take out Lucina? Yeah...keep dreaming.

I cannot understand people who bash Roy for being a clone yet gush over Lucina despite Lucina vying with Dark Pit for most similar clone in the series, and Robin already repping Awakening.

Except based on trends it won't happen. The odds of Roy being decloned are slim-to-none. The best case scenario I see is him getting an original Final Smash, but honestly it'll probably just be cloned from Ike instead.

I expect Roy to be Luigi-fied to same the extent that Falco and Ganondorf were in Brawl, maybe even more so.

 

[FalKoopa]

Darn... I was only 0.3% off. Martingale though, was only 0.015% off.
Tons of discussion here too, eh? Not bad, not bad.

ROY:
CHANCE: 95%
WANT: 100%

Let's see what we've got here - A victory file and sound effects, which have been confirmed by multiple sources. After Dr. Mario and Mewtwo made the jump to Smash 4 unchanged from their Melee selves, I don't see why Roy can't be added similarly. There is a demand for it he's comparatively easier to make, and if Doc's minor differences were enough to make him separate, Roy would actually be more different, due to added fire effects. There's really nothing stopping him at this point. Also, being cloney is not a point against him. That is a completely fan made stigma. Developers love clones - they're the definition of low risk, high reward.

As for want, yes please. I'm a fan of veterans returning, and Roy was a favouite from Melee and Project M. His game is good, but it kind of pales compared to Ike's games though.Anyway, MAH BOI, THIS DLC IS WHAT ALL TRUE WARRIORS STRIVE FOR.

RIDLEY PREDICTION: 3%\
Apocalypse is coming.

IVYSAUR × 5

 

[Delzethin]

I could say that about Lucas.

I could say that about Wolf.

I could say that about Mewtwo even.

Plus, that's ignoring the fact that the people that would buy him would still be greater.

Lucas is a semi-clone whose A moves are mostly different from Ness. Wolf is so different from Fox that some argue he isn't even a semi-clone. Mewtwo isn't a clone at all (unless you count in-universe, heheh); he's entirely unique.

Not only are none of them full clones, they don't have to deal with there being a full clone of their source character already.

This is ignoring how files really work.

If Roy was going to be an alt, then there would be no reason to even give him a unique victory theme.

It would just be Marth's or Lucina's. There would be absolutely no reason to add anything involving a new victory file.

I understand not thinking Roy is a shoe in.

But not for that reason.

This is denying reality and trying to warp it because you don't like what it spells.

Less denying reality, more...only knowing so much. I kind of can't program worth a damn. >_> It wasn't supposed to be a big argument, anyway, more a counterpoint to something assumed to make him an automatic lock.

Even if I'm off base on those programming details, it doesn't mean Roy's a guarantee by any means. There's still the chance of something going on we don't know of.

If it were the case, 1.0.7 wouldn't have the files still in.

They weren't taken out? That...I don't think that tells us anything in either direction, to be honest. I guess 1.0.7 was just a quick fix to the Mewtwo bugs and they didn't bother with anything else?

 

[IceAnt573]

I cannot understand people who bash Roy for being a clone yet gush over Lucina despite Lucina vying with Dark Pit for most similar clone in the series, and Robin already repping Awakening.

Did I say a single thing about Roy being a clone? No, alright then.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I cannot understand people who bash Roy for being a clone yet gush over Lucina despite Lucina vying with Dark Pit for most similar clone in the series, and Robin already repping Awakening.



I expect Roy to be Luigi-fied to same the extent that Falco and Ganondorf were in Brawl, maybe even more so.

I don't know why anyone expects that to happen when Dr. Mario was brought back virtually exactly the same.

 

[ChronoBound]

Did I say a single thing about Roy being a clone? No, alright then.

I have seen that cognitive dissonance trotted out too often.

I think between Roy and Lucina, its Lucina whose position is more precarious since she has less gameplay differences than Roy does, or any other clone aside from Dark Pit. She was originally supposed to be a costume, and the fact that Awakening already is covered by Robin.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I don't know why anyone expects that to happen when Dr. Mario was brought back virtually exactly the same.

Only because Dr. Mario was originally planned to be an alternate costume for Mario.

 

[MainJPW]

Roy

Chance: 97%
Can't argue with the files, Roy's definitely going to be making a grand return. The 3% is me waiting for an official confirmation.

Want: 30%
The more the merrier I guess. I'd want him a lot more if he were decloned to an extent though, like say Luigi but the general consensus is that won't be happening so... I think he'll be decloned a little.

And, by the way, I also wouldn't take this as him being further along in development than Wolf because remember, five more slots were found alongside Mewtwo and the few files in there were left unintentionally; this doesn't at all suggest that Roy and Ryu are the next characters or that they're further in development than Wolf, who would be easier to bring back then a Melee vet.

RIDLEY PREDICTION: %
Can't wait for this one...

Nominations:
Concept:DLC costumes x3
Viridi x1
Ninten x1

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't know why anyone expects that to happen when Dr. Mario was brought back virtually exactly the same.

Dr. Mario was a last minute addition, and Doc was already plenty different from Mario due to how much regular Mario changed during Brawl and Smash 4. As it is, he was already by far the most unique of the Clone Trinity, which is saying something considering up until then, he was by far the most similar clone in the series until Dark Pit and Lucina.

Sakurai will probably use whatever plans he had when he intended to bring Roy back for Brawl, and looking at how Falco and Ganondorf were changed during that game, Roy probably was going to receive some Luigi-fication too. Toon Link, who was Young Link's expy, also was Luigi-fied.

I would not be surprised if Lucina's inclusion ends up serving as an impetus for Sakurai to go a little further in his Luigi-fication of Roy than originally planned. I think some have even suggested for him to be a mix of Marth and Ike in terms of his moves, and I think that might be an interesting concept as far as clones go.

 

[FalKoopa]

I think I should say this again.

Please stop being defensive if anyone gives your character a low Want score. We're here to rate their 'CHANCES', the Want rating is just an extra; people are entitled to think whatever they want think about the character.

 

[MainJPW]

I think I should say this again.

Please stop being defensive if anyone gives your character a low Want score. We're here to rate their 'CHANCES', the Want rating is just an extra; people are entitled to think whatever they want think about the character.

Your comment.... It lacks a Phanpy.

Never seen you comment without one.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lucas is a semi-clone whose A moves are mostly different from Ness. Wolf is so different from Fox that some argue he isn't even a semi-clone. Mewtwo isn't a clone at all (unless you count in-universe, heheh); he's entirely unique.

Not only are none of them full clones, they don't have to deal with there being a full clone of their source character already.

Sure we think that.

But the average consumer is different.

Trust me...

I've gotten into many an argument over how Wolf isn't a clone.

Less denying reality, more...only knowing so much. I kind of can't program worth a damn. >_> It wasn't supposed to be a big argument, anyway, more a counterpoint to something assumed to make him an automatic lock.

Even if I'm off base on those programming details, it doesn't mean Roy's a guarantee by any means. There's still the chance of something going on we don't know of.

I never argued he was a guarantee.

I never go for guarantees.

It's just that your reasoning there was frankly laughable.

If you aren't sure, then ask.

 

[MainJPW]

I've gotten into many an argument over how Wolf isn't a clone.

Tell me about it, I'm still seeing idiots say things like "why would you want a clone over a new character?" in regards to Wolf.

 

[Ura]

Why are people so apathetic to the idea of Sakurai decloning Roy? I mean really, if Roy was going to be cut and paste from Melee, I think he would have taken the role of direct Marth clone from Lucina seeing his enormous popularity. For Sakurai to leave him out of the initial roster, he has to have something up his sleeve when it comes to changing up Roy. Maybe he'll change up Roy to be as different Wolf is to Fox for all we know.

I also have some other things I wanted to mention since I left this thread.

- Dr. Mario not being changed at all is a given seeing as he wasn't supposed to be a separate character initially.

- Worst comes to worst, why wouldn't Roy receive the same treatment Falco and Ganondorf got from Melee to Brawl? Do you think Sakurai is so lazy that he won't even bother changing him in the slightest with Lucina already in the game?

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

Chance: 95%
He got leaked what more to say lol

Want: 100%
By far my most wanted character in the game he was really fun to use in pm and I even enjoy him in Melee despite his low tier status he can definitely differentiate himself from Marth and Lucina with his sweet spot and fire properties and his Melee nostalgia helps as well

Ridley: 30%
He is a boss but Sakurai can do some crazy **** not what I want but what ever

Nominations: Pheonix Wright, Bayonetta, Dr. Eggman, Black Shadow, Bubsy(What could possibly go wrong?)
EDIT: To those saying "those files are unused data!" why would they patch in cut data? Seriously lol

 

[Delzethin]

Sure we think that.

But the average consumer is different.

Trust me...

I've gotten into many an argument over how Wolf isn't a clone.

Yeah. Misinformed fans can be a pain. Although I do feel like a decent amount of them get the idea of semi-clones, and more oppose the idea of Roy based on the clone argument than oppose Wolf or Lucas.

I never argued he was a guarantee.

I never go for guarantees.

It's just that your reasoning there was frankly laughable.

If you aren't sure, then ask.

I suppose I got so desperate for a counterpoint that I took a risk I shouldn't have. Thanks for the offer; I'll keep it in mind if it's important some other time.

...I should probably go back and axe that paragraph, honestly.

Why are people so apathetic to the idea of Sakurai decloning Roy? I mean really, if Roy was going to be cut and paste from Melee, I think he would have taken the role of direct Marth clone from Lucina seeing his enormous popularity. For Sakurai to leave him out of the initial roster, he has to have something up his sleeve when it comes to changing up Roy. Maybe he'll change up Roy to be as different Wolf is to Fox for all we know.

Actually, among Fire Emblem fans, Lucina is really well liked as a character. I can see exactly why she was picked to be a Marth alt (and then turned into a clone when they had extra time).

- Worst comes to worst, why wouldn't Roy receive the same treatment Falco and Ganondorf got from Melee to Brawl? Do you think Sakurai is so lazy that he won't even bother changing him in the slightest with Lucina already in the game?

It just seems unlikely when Mewtwo and Lucas have next to no changes, is all. And if they did decide, for whatever reason, to rework Roy, it'd throw out the entire argument of him being easy to make.

 

[Aygent]

ROY:

Chance: 90%

Why: Sound files are no secret here, Royboys. Unless dev team is all like " Oh hell guise! they discovered our secret! We gotta pull Roy and Ruy from the DLC patches!" I highly doubt Roy doesn't get in. This all gives me the vibes of the Shulk leak, so I sense we will get an announcement no later than E3.

Want: 30%

Why: Sorry, Royboys. I really don't think another Fire Emblem rep is sought out. Marth is the King of smash. Hands down. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Roy was more relevant in Project M only because it gave a melee counterpart to Mewtwo. How many Royboys did you see in your PM or Melee days? I know I didn't see alot. Mewtwo on the other hand? Lots. Sm4sh already has a SOLID Fire Emblem roster set. Lucina to me is a homage to the king of smash and for that reason alone, she got the nod over Roy.

Nominations:

Simon Belmont x1

Ryu x2

Bayonetta x1

Toon Ganondorf x1

 

[FalKoopa]

Your comment.... It lacks a Phanpy.

Never seen you comment without one.

Using it would undermine the seriousness of the post, you know.

 

[PK_Wonder]

People sure are passionate today.

Roy
Chances - 97.75%
Those files exist, so the absolute worst case scenario for Roy's chances is that the team suddenly changes their mind entirely and scraps the idea. Whatever happens, Roy is currently being considered as a full character for the roster alongside Ryu. It's highly unlikely he will be scrapped if his files were just now added in this recent patch in a DLC-oriented world. It is possible that he will become an alt, be scrapped, or is simply low priority. It is unlikely he is low priority, being less demanding to make, even if Luigified, But it's also very likely that he will be one of the first announced DLC characters, before any ballot "winners," considering he is already in development.

Want - 5%
And that's okay. I'm entitled to my negative opinion about him, it didn't affect my chances score. I would live with it, and might get hype for him if Sakurai makes him more appealing. But I do not and will not want or like Roy coming back until I see him in action. I love Fire Emblem. I just don't want a fifth FE character before about twenty other characters that are more important to me than Roy. and Roy certainly wouldn't be my first fifth Fire Emblem pick.

Nominate - Black Mage x5

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Roy:

Chance: 100%

I spent many hours over months doing research for http://www.royforsmash4.com, reading endless hate threads and love threads for Roy for five years, only finding more and more info supporting him from both, and why he's the absolute best and most needed Fire Emblem pick, plus why FE easily deserves a fifth character (described and backed up in the site), and the patch leaks have two trustworthy sources I've followed for years. There is obviously bias, but not nearly as much as you would think. You guys would not be playing Fire Emblem games past five, wouldn't have any overseas Fire Emblem games, and wouldn't have Ike/Robin/Lucina, especially in Smash, without Roy. I don't like when spoiled Ike/Robin/Lucina fans act like he's the worst thing to happen to Fire Emblem and Smash Bros. because of it. I discovered all this in the last few months alone, once I thought of the Fire Emblem games in more perspectives than just gameplay and story like I limited myself to for years. Despite the stale jokes originating from the turtle, Lucina's inclusion, and overall unecessary and childish hate for clones, the love for Roy from his fans will always outweigh those obstacles, and even before his game, people wrote letters for him and Marth which got them in our Melee copies, before he was even a playable Smash character. A player in Colorado I know was one of them. Imagine how many people wrote pleas for him to be in now. People who say Roy is unimportant just don't know, and that's fine, they'll learn someday. With the leak, it looks like Nintendo remembered, and it's about time. Perfect timing, too, with the recent Fire Emblem games and TCG coming, which all make his inclusion much more justifiable.

Want: 100%

I've wanted Roy's return for five years ever since I played through his game. He is one of the most well-written and developed characters in the Fire Emblem series, he would give many players one of their favorite fighters back, and he's just a massive void missing on the roster directly between Marth and Ike. While I want characters such as Levin and Eliwood, and while I favor them more in the Fire Emblem series, I want Roy in Smash a thousand times more due to how many people who missed him from Melee and how happy they would be, plus Roy is much more justifiable and would make sales. Seeing Wolf as Jesus and Roy as Satan is so screwed up when they're in the same boat. Star Fox having a clone triangle is justifiable as its only representation to you guys, but Robin and Ike for enough "unique" reps and then a clone triangle elsewhere is bad?

You guys are breaking my heart with all the Roy hate ;__; I'm only here to boost numbers for chance and want %, as a sad fact. If you're not sold on his inclusion, want to see what can be done with reaching out to Nintendo to fix your problems with Roy, or just want to see some cool Roy stuff, check out the site in my sig.

 

[Croph]

The one time I'm participating in this game is when my boy's in the spotlight. and because I have some thoughts on the leak and whatnot. Go me...


ROY

CHANCE: 95%

With everything that has happened with the Roy/Ryu sound file leak, it seems like Roy's return is most likely on the horizon. The 5% comes from the off-chance that Roy ends up getting scrapped down the road or made into a costume (but I'll go over why I don't think that's likely) or anything that won't make him return as his own playable fighter. Plus the fact that I'm just waiting for the official confirmation. I'm going to say my thoughts on the leak and arguments people bring up.


"The whole leak is just a hoax!"

Creditable individual data miners as well as a website has found the files. Not only is it hard for multiple people to coordinate a dumb joke like this, their reputation is on the line. Unlikely that this leak is a hoax.


"Roy could be a Mii costume with his own victory theme and all!"

Considering Sakurai's views on whether a character should be an alt costume or not, this scenario doesn't seem all that likely. Why demote Roy to a costume when his gameplay and fire abilities are unique? Flame itself in Smash is an interesting element where the effect does no damage to Red Pikmin, can denote Blast Boxes, can thaw out opponents, etc. With this ability and Roy's gameplay differences & properties (reverse tipper, weight, speed, etc.) versus Marth, you might as well make him his own fighter. Which leads me to: Why relegate a highly requested character to a costume when you can develop him as a standalone fighter and please tons of fans in the process? It seems with the inclusion of Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina, Roy being any sort of costume doesn't make much sense as well. Lucas came back as his own character thanks to fan demand, why can't the same happen for Roy?

I should also note that, if Roy were a Mii costume, I don't understand why the developers would code a Mii costume as its own character, especially when Roy came along with 2 DLC characters that are confirmed: Lucas (who we know is currently being worked on) and Mewtwo.

I'm not excluding the possibility that Roy could be a costume, however given the circumstances, I think the more likely situation is that Roy's being developed as his own fighter as we speak.


WANT: 100%

Personal reasons:

- Melee main, would love to see him return with buffs and tweaks
- Love his fire properties and tipper mechanic (pls make him into an awesome rushdown fighter).
- Love FE6 and his character, also love his redesign in Awakening
- Roy would nicely represent the GBA FE games, which I think is kinda cool

Overall view:

Roy always been a popular requested character in both Japan and in the West. Even pre-Smash 4, he was up there. A good thing about Roy is that he's a pretty recognizable character thanks to Melee selling a crap ton. So, non-FE gamers who played Melee will still know who he is; as such, I'm sure Roy would be a profitable DLC fighter. And he could be easier to develop if he's still clone-ish. What I'm trying to get at: even without the leak, I think Roy still has a good chance at returning. Always have. I usually don't have problems if popular requested characters get in anyway, because I could see where they're coming from, especially when it's selling a singular character via DLC.

Nominations: x5

 

[RidleyDX]

Roy

Chance: 90% Sound files blah blah you all heard this a thousand time's by now.

Want: if he is virtually the same 10%, if he is luigified and has his awakening design 85%

I played Roy a lot in melee, and didn't really miss him much in brawl, personally if he comes back, I would hope for him to be his own character, he has the potential there anyways, he is a dlc character so I would expect there would be more effort into making him this time. I know these are tallied so take my 85% for want, I'll try to be positive for the Roy Boys.

 

[Croph]

I swear this will be the most divisive character I will ever see.

There's gonna be a lot of hypocrisy too. I can tell.

Even more divisive than ??

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Even more divisive than ??

You'd be surprised.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Spoiler: Captain Hotcakes's Ratings History (as of 5/4/15)

Character Chance Ratings

1: Roy - 97.7%
2: Wolf - 97.5%
3: Rayman - 60%
4: Snake - 55%
5: Inkling - 50%
6: Sceptile - 45%
6: Krystal - 45%
7: Paper Mario: 44.5%
8: Dixie Kong - 43%
9: Wonder Red - 40%
10: Impa - 40.5%
11: Ice Climbers - 30%
11: Captain Toad - 30%
12: Henry Fleming - 25.7%
13: Quote - 21.5%
14: Shovel Knight - 20%
15: Shantae - 20.5%

Character Want Ratings

1: Shovel Knight - 100%
1: Wolf - 100%
2: Sceptile - 90.5%
3: Shantae - 87%
4: Wonder Red - 86.5%
5: Snake - 85%
5: Impa - 85%
6: Ice Climbers - 80%
7: Paper Mario: 60%
8: Inkling - 30%
9: Henry Fleming - 30.5%
10: Rayman - 25%
11: Quote - 23%
12: Krystal - 20%
12: Dixie Kong - 20%
13: Roy - 10.5%
14: Captain Toad: 5.5%

Concept Chance Ratings

1: Any NPC Becomes Playable - 65.7%

Concept Want Ratings

1: Any NPC Becomes Playable - 50.5%

Abstains (Inactivity)

King K. Rool
Banjo-Kazooie
Isaac
Bandana Dee

Abtsains (Indifference)

n/A

RATINGS

Roy

Chance - 99.9% Roy is one of the 7 Koopalings, who have all been picking up some nice recognition with their redesigns and boss roles from every New Super Mario Bros. game on. Although, this already puts him in a very dubious spot for consideration. There are 7 Koopalings with their own personalities, physical properties, and weapons to match!

Not to mention he has competition with another Smash veteran originally claiming to his name. That would be Roy from Fire Emblem: Binding Blade. The dominant edge Roy has against the other Roy is that we already have 4 Fire Emblem characters, and adding a 5th would be largely disproportional to the value of the Mario franchise. Plus, Roy is just another anime bishounen with a sword! Geez, why do people keep requesting those when we have enough already!?

Yet it's staggering how much I see this pink terrapin dominate in the polls. He's got quite a name with the fans, scoring a solid Top 5-10 average. One particular poll sourced from 4chan's highly-accredited /v/ board, with joint cooperation with the Miiverse Super Smash Bros. Community, put him as Number 1 even!

Moveset wise, against the other 6 Koopalings or even Bowser Jr., Roy Koopa's already got a few tricks up his sleeve- er, shell... holes? First of all, he's got a gnarly bazooka that shoots Bullet Bills, as well as-

"Got somethin' to say 'bout me, punk?"

Oh, uh... moving on then!

RATINGS

Roy

Chance - 97.7%: We can't bring up Roy (or Ryu) without mentioning the leak now, huh? Looks like those victory files pretty much set the characters in stone for DLC! They're palpable, legitimate, and most importantly, actually in the friggin' game! I would know. I have a .zip folder straight from the source containing all leaked audio and they work!

Yet we don't know the full purpose of these files. There's a very scant possibility this is leftover data for testing and was somehow brought back for some sort of reference point when implementing new DLC characters. I mean, it's pretty odd that Ryu's wasn't even remixed to further solidify his place in the game. Seems like a Work In Progress.

I find it profoundly unlikely for scraped character data from a pre-release build of the game would make it in after a good number of patches have already been realized since release. We also have a ROM record to verify that this is the first instance of Roy & Ryu's files appearing in the game. Not to mention, Brawl never received any patches post-release, so any scraped data would be left behind.

Roy's remained to be one of the most highly-requested characters, perhaps behind Mewtwo with vets, since Brawl. He has a huge recognition factor not just from widely introducing Fire Emblem to the West in Melee, but being Binding Blade's staple lord, the first Western-release Fire Emblem. His Japanese support is pretty staggering too. He does take the top spot over even the likes of King K. Rool over there! We aren't even going to discredit his popularity within his own series too. Who else would they pass up for two minor, if notable Fire Emblem: Awakening DLCs? Sakurai wants to give the fans what they want. Roy has proven to be strong, if polarizing character to choose for DLC. And if Sakurai's appearance at that Fire Emblem concert is anything to sniff at, he would obviously be announcing something for Smash, unless he's somehow working on something else Fire Emblem-related.

Nostalgia naturally muddling people's biases only serves to make his demand stronger than it logically should be. Face it, naysayers. The Red Lion of Pharae shall smote us with his supah h0t PH1R3 yet again, Naga have mercy. Speaking of logic...

Want - 10.5%: Here's where I draw the line for DLC characters. I was already sold off by Lucas without Wolf. Looks like DLC is going to be a catch-up game of acquiring all the semi-clones (given Lucina, Roy should either go this route, be Luigified, or straight-up decloned). Honestly, I never waned any of them back in the first place. Mewtwo was the only veteran who ever felt deserved, because no other character has emulated his unique playstyle.

To understand where I'm coming from, here's a disclaimer. I am strongly opposed to characters being sold individually as DLC. I've had to put up with this model in other games and I think it's a monotonous, divisive way to deal out undeniable additions to the roster. If a character made it in that you happen to dislike, it's impossible to ignore that they exist within the game, and will be in the fandom forever. Characters should be sold either in bundles or be patched into the game. That way you don't have to leave other related characters behind or you can't remove them from the game. It's absolutely stupid to force consumers to have to pick and choose who they want from the final roster.

I find the prospect of getting another Marth semi-clone with more mechanics changes abhorring, so I think I'll pass on him until I get my precious Wolf. Roy is the prime definition of periphery! Everything he will bring has either been provided by other characters or falls flat by itself.

Lucina provides the foil of a Marth clone. Ike's got your fire-based charged Neutral Special, albeit with a different angle and trajectory. Shulk has a hilt-based sweetspot on his Monado. Robin already remedies his palette of red in her gamut. Mewtwo and Dr. Mario carry over Melee nostalgia. Roy already has his name (Arguably moot, considering they can recommission the announcer to add a "Koopa" to the end of each Koopalings name call. just worth mentioning.)

Now for some less notable factors. Roy has saved his series from cancellation? Chrom, Robin, & Lucina did a much better job doing that in Awakening and Robin's the only character necessary to stay from that game. Roy's one-in-eleven (possibly even twelve to fourteen) of lords, each varying in popularity and character. People are already butthurt now that Fire Emblem is getting a fifth character because "muh reps" and "Oh, Sakurai, how could you forsake us!? Fire Emblem is too small, moar Metroid and Donkey Kong please!" I could keep going debunking Roy's other qualifications, but I'm adamant for starting any debates out of ones that are already taking place.

At the end of the day, this is Roy's fans doing. They got what they wanted, so more power to them. I guess my opinion will forever remain an outlier, because it's highly likely I'll skip out on his DLC. But when you whine about other characters not deserving to get in for what Roy provides, don't come crying to me, or many others.

Roy:

Chance: 100%

I spent many hours over months doing research for http://www.royforsmash4.com, reading endless hate threads and love threads for Roy for five years, only finding more and more info supporting him from both, and why he's the absolute best and most needed Fire Emblem pick, plus why FE easily deserves a fifth character (described and backed up in the site), and the patch leaks have two trustworthy sources I've followed for years. There is obviously bias, but not nearly as much as you would think. You guys would not be playing Fire Emblem games past five, wouldn't have any overseas Fire Emblem games, and wouldn't have Ike/Robin/Lucina, especially in Smash, without Roy. I discovered all this in the last few months alone, once I thought of the Fire Emblem games in more perspectives than just gameplay and story like I limited myself to for years. Despite the stale jokes originating from the turtle, Lucina's inclusion, and overall unecessary and childish hate for clones, the love for Roy from his fans will always outweigh those obstacles, and even before his game, people wrote letters for him and Marth which got them in our Melee copies, before he was even a playable Smash character. A player in Colorado I know was one of them. Imagine how many people wrote pleas for him to be in now. People who say Roy is unimportant just don't know, and that's fine, they need to educate themselves and not be so darn toxic. With the leak, it looks like Nintendo remembered, and it's about time. Perfect timing, too, with the recent Fire Emblem games and TCG coming, which all make his inclusion much more justifiable.

Want: 100%

I've wanted Roy's return for five years ever since I played through his game. He is one of the most well-written and developed characters in the Fire Emblem series, he would give many players one of their favorite fighters back, and he's just a massive void missing on the roster directly between Marth and Ike. While I want characters such as Levin and Eliwood, and while I favor them more in the Fire Emblem series, I want Roy in Smash a thousand times more due to how many people who missed him from Melee and how happy they would be, plus Roy is much more justifiable and would make sales. Seeing Wolf as Jesus and Roy as Satan is so screwed up when they're in the same boat. Star Fox having a clone triangle is justifiable as its only representation to you guys, but Robin and Ike for enough unique reps and then a clone triangle elsewhere is bad? You don't even believe in a redesign or

You guys are breaking my heart with all the Roy hate ;__; I'm only here to boost numbers for chance and want %, as a sad fact. If you're not sold on his inclusion, want to see what can be done with reaching out to Nintendo to fix your problems with Roy, or just want to see some cool Roy stuff, check out the site in my sig.

I read through the main sections of your site yesterday. Commendable effort you put into it. However, almost all arguments I've read supporting him have been countered to death. I don't see why else it should change my mind more than Roy's fans have already tried doing.

PREDICTION

Ridley-diddly-doo!

Chance - 34.67%
Want - 54.29%

NOMINATIONS

*Concept: No DLC Characters After Fighter Ballot x3
Galacta Knight x1
Anna x1