Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[Cutie Gwen]

Chance: 0% They're an AT, which I consider a death sentence. Even if we ignore that, Sukapon has nothing going for them, they're just another character like Ayumi who seems to be considered solely because "Haha isn't it funny seeing some quirky Nintendo history?" Not exactly something Nintendo would promote as DLC judging by everything we got, especially not a Japan only character.

Want: 0% "Haha funny quirky Nintendo history" doesn't cut it for me when it comes to content I'm paying extra for, especially if there's no way to even play the game officially, I don't believe I have high standards but Sukapon is so low that I can't feign excitement for them.

The game that probably flopped because IGN gave it a 3/10

Chance: 1% Gene has literally nothing going for him as his game notoriously underperformed, especially with the countless other Capcom characters at our disposal, especially as Gene doesn't even have a bunch of fan demand.

Want: 80% He's a Capcom character. Sure, I never played God Hand, nobody did after all, but you can look at the gameplay commonly mistaken to be from Hideki Kamiya then you have a fantastic potential character, no wonder people want him in MvC. That being said, should you need some further convincing, consider the following song,

WARNING STRONG LANGUAGE AND INNUENDO

That should be enough to convince you Gene's great unless you're boring lmao

 

[fogbadge]

probably should have looked up what ddlc stood for before i rated. not that it would have changed anything

a robot made of kirbys

chances: 0% if we're getting an AT upgrade it wont be him. as a fairly obscure character being both retro and japan only i just dont see nintendo picking him. even if he wasnt an AT id still say he has nothing going for him.

want: 50% eh id take him. may not induce a lot of hype in me but what he would bring would be something really fun.

god hand? erm wasnt that something lisa could do in the simpsons game? no wait that was the hand of budah. abstain dont know what this is.

anyone else feeling a lot less compelled to write long write ups?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Sukapon A Time In The West
Chance: 2%
Japanese-only retro that got Assist Trophy’d and since then had quite little support to change that situation in any way. Not the first choice in a long shot in any sort of category it‘s part of, with even the prize for best pick for a limbless fighter going past him.

Want: 20%
Would maybe be good for one Fred-Armisen-Is-Cranky-Kong-style laughing fit because that one joke involving his name would ruffle a lot of feathers but otherwise the candidates he passed in every area of his being would’v made more compelling choices, and that realization is gonna set in soon.

Abstain on the other lad

 

[GoodGrief741]

Why hello there, I am here to explain why Sukapon is a great choice for a fighter and why you should actually like him and shower him with 100%s

Sukapon is a pink humanoid robot with no neck or limbs. As Joy Mech Fight is a fighting game, Sukapon should automatically have a ready-made moveset right? Well, yes and no. As a fighting game on the NES, Sukapon had a limited moveset. Punch, kick, overhead punch, sweep kick, aerial versions of the first two, and four specials.

Those specials though, there's nothing like them. Sukapon has his special Sukapon Toss, which he can use to suplex foes behind him (every fighter in Joy Mech Fight has a special command grab, we'll get back to this later). He can also use the Sukapon Roll, making himself spin out like a giant pink Sonic. And of course he can use Tondeker to throw his head, which hits hard and then freaking explodes. That alone should be enough to sell him to anyone. He throws his huge robot head at people! Who else does that?

And how do you fill in Sukapon's moveset? Surely the rest will just be punches, kicks and headbutts, made unique because of his disjointed anatomy? That might be enough for a lesser character, but 'tis not for Sukapon! You see, there are two things that you need to know about JMF. The first is that all fighters share Sukapon's lack of limbs and control scheme - all robots have 4 special moves. The second is that JMF's plot is a parody of Mega Man, in which Sukapon fights through an army of colorful robots and recruits them to the cause of good.

With that in mind, I see no reason why the rest of Sukapon's moveset couldn't be comprised of moves from the other 35 fighters. Think about it! That's 140 special moves! You can't run out of inspiration with this guy. Sukapon could borrow moves like Geo Wave (Power Wave but with the earth), Drill Attack (corkscrew spin into your opponent, like Raiden or a horizontal Wario), Eye Astrong (a self-damaging shine with devastating damage), Old's Attack 2 (moves his hands in a circle before him while digging) and more. And that isn't even the best part (OK, it might be, YMMV on this one). Remember when I said the other characters also have their own command grabs? Yeah baby that's over 30 command grabs Sukapon can borrow!

Basically Sukapon could be a crazy disjointed fighter with a boatload of confusing moves and tons of grabs. We still don't have a dedicated grappler in the roster and only one character can fix that: Sukapon!

Chance: 1%
Yeah he's obviously not happening because he's a Japanese exclusive character from an obscure game with little in the way of demand.

Want: 100%
But man would I like him. Joy Mech Fight is a blast and a joy to play, it still holds up. Sukapon is a funny and charismatic little guy who makes for a great protagonist and a contrast to the typical gaming hero. He'd fit right in with the Smash cast but he'd also be completely unlike any of them. Back in the Brawl days Sukapon was my most wanted and I still have a huge spot for him so I'm glad I got to gush about him one last time before this was over.

Abstain on Gene but God Hand is a masterpiece

 

[chocolatejr9]

Abstain. I know nothing about either.

 

[Laniv]

Proto-Rayman

Chance: 0%

Lol Assist Trophy. Even if he wasn't, the poor guy doesn't have a lot in his favor. Unlike Takamaru, his game has, to my knowledge, never been released outside of Japan.

Want: 79%

I do love me some retros. And hey, look at him! He looks fun, with his pink orbs and his lack of limbs!

Abstain on Gene

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We still don't have a dedicated grappler in the roster and only one character can fix that: Sukapon!

I mean, Incineroar's supposed to be the grappler, though I think he was designed to only have a single command grab so that either players wouldn't have to struggle with boss battles as you obviously can't grab them or that newbies would get absolutely dominated by a character who constantly ignores shield which kind of goes against Sakurai's newbie friendly philosophies.

Also, I know that there's no point as we're literally 6 days away from the final character, but can the next day's characters get mentioned? I personally prefer a reminder as to who's next so I can make a better writeup or more time to do research in case I'm unsure

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Rate Lugia (Pokémon) & Agumon (Digimon)

Megadoomer

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Music Post

Spoiler: Music Post

I don't care if it's not a game song, I'm still posting the rap

------

Lugia

Chance: 0%
Lugia is already a pokeball Pokemon in Smash. I don't see it being a priority with Gens 4 and 8 being more relevant.

Want: 3%
In regards to Johto Pokemon I'd prefer one of the starters (specifically Totodile) or even Ho-Oh if we're talking legendaries. Also I'm just really overblown on Pokemon in general so I'm not exactly demanding another rep. I'll give a small percent because it's an iconic Pokemon and would be better than almost all of the Gen 8 options.

-----

Abstaining on Agumon

 

[DanganZilla5]

The water bird thing

Chance: 0%

I do think we might get a Pokemon for CP11, but not this one. I mean, Lugia is popular for sure, but there is nothing for him/her to promote which is a major disadvantage for this franchise. If I had to bet on a Pokemon, it would have to be either from Gen 8, Gen 4, or one of the starters from Legends. As a griefful man once said, "Pokemon is a train that stops for nobody."

Want: 10%

Lugia would be cool I guess, but not one of my top picks. And of course Pokemon should stay away until the next game.

______________________________

Here's a champion right here

Chance: 5%

We got our Bamco character for this pass. I don't know what else to say. Agumon could still happen but at this point I have little faith in him and most of my most wanted, with some exceptions.

Want: 100%

I love Digimon. I grew up with the show and several Digimon games so the series is close to my heart. A digivolution gimmick would be very cool and can we please get the catchy Digimon Adventure theme in Smash just like how we got Advent Children music? Please?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Halle-Lugia
Chance: 1%
Well you gotta be bold to already assume that an ill-timed Pokémon is in the realm of possibility, considering there‘s multiple games coming up in the series and have had two sets of games that got stuck between a rock and a hard place (USUM and SwSh) when it comes to timing. Furthermore, Gen II doesn’t even have the benefit that Kanto has of being eternally relevant by decree of nostalgia-milking (and thus also relevant by in-game standards, as evident by the birds of legend showing up in the SwordShield DLC), although the ideal of nostalgia could easily apply to Gold/Silver as well. On the other hand, Gen II is technically present on the playable roster through Pichu, so filling in the gaps in generations isn’t a motive that Gen II can use to great effect either.

Then, outside of picking a Pokémon from that gen, Lugia is also a box-art legendary. Not something with a load of precedence either, especially when consider its shaping and sizing. Overall, there’s too many layers to this onion to give Lugia a viable win condition.

Want: 40%
I do think he’s kinda neat though, but that surface level can only get a character so far to me.

Agumon
Chance: 10%
Two Namco Bandai characters in a row is not specifically impossible, but Kazuya did take a lot of wind out of the sails of Agumon. Not only is the positive evidence that Namco Bandai would get a character gone, the idea that two characters from the same company would be in the same pass right next to each other provides some doubt in return. Unless there is a specific reason why the timing has to line up this way, it’d make more sense to rearrange the pass to account for the double dip. I do believe it’s very possible that speculation in itself cares way more about companies of origin than Nintendo/Sakurai does, so I’m not shooting down the possibility entirely.

Then there’s the idea that, even if Namco Bandai does a double-dip, it’s not guaranteed to be Digimon. Having little history in Smash and having little demand for that to change, whereas the Tales series has both, it’s hard to find the positive evidence for Digimon to place it on Sakurai’s or Nintendo’s radar as anything more than it being a very succesful series.

Want: 60%
Not gonna lie I absolutely fear that they‘d jumble in a meter or two for digivolving and I absolutely do not care for that sort of thing anymore.

 

[NintenRob]

Lugia, the best Pokemon
Chance: 0%
Obviously this isn't happening. While Lugia has gotten some spotlight recently with Pokemon Go and the anime, it's very obviously not very suited for Smash. It's already a pokeball Pokemon and not a gen 8 pokemon. And it's body would be difficult to translate, especially with it's long neck.
Want: 100%
I don't give a **** about anything I just said. Lugia is my favourite Pokemon, I'd love to have it playable in Smash, even if it doesn't make sense. This thing has been my favourite for as long as I can remember. Tiny me was in awe of how big it is in Pokemon Stadium 2, and loved the havok it caused in Melee. The more I learned about Lugia, the more I loved it. The only Pokemon to ever come close was Greninja.

 

[BowserKing]

Lugia
Chance: 1 to 5%. It might be a given that there are species of Pokémon that have a lower chance then Lugia to get in Smash (Rayquaza for instance), but Lugia’s chance is still low regardless. Especially with only one slot left and a Gen 8 Pokémon much more likely, and Lugia being a Pokéball Pokémon, but since Ultimate is making the impossible happen, we should not rule most stuff out.
Want: 100%. What’s can I say, Lugia is my most wanted fight for Smash since 2015, and Lugia would totally be fun to play as. I can see Lugia partner with some other Pokémon (Pikachu, Lucario and Incineroar for instance) against Mewtwo, Bowser and Ridley, among others. Plus Lugia has some deadly moves like Areoblast, Extrasensory, Dragon Rush and Air Gusts. Overall, Lugia joining Smash is defiantly worth it in my opinion.

Agumon
Chance: 1%. Agumon would be higher on the chance, but Kazuya joining the battle basically reduced the chance to almost zero. The one percentage would be the unlikely case of that Digimon being a spirit.
Want: 55%. Agumon would be fun to play as, and seeing Agumon and Pikachu fight would be hype worthy. Overall, Agumon would make a decent Smash Bros fighter.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Not a water type for some reason
Chance: 0%
Only way Lugia would be picked is if they threw darts blindfolded and they happened to hit Lugia. That isn't how they choose a Pokemon character though. It doesn't seem like it will be important in any upcoming games and is just kind of a random pick honestly. They aren't going to promote HG/SS 11 years late.

Want: 0%
I like the design but I have no attachment to this Pokemon and I just don't want to end the pass with a Pokemon in general. Lugia would just seem nonsensical in a bad way to me since it doesn't make sense timing wise, already appears as a Pokeball summon and there are just more popular Pokemon out there.

WORLD
Chance: 0.1
I'm not seeing the final character being another one from Bamco right after we got Kazuya. I never really believed in same-pass double-dipps and I especially don't believe in the same third-party getting two characters back to back. Even if all that didn't matter, there are still guys like Yuri and a Dark Souls rep to consider.

Want: Abstaining

 

[fogbadge]

lugia
chances: 0% if we get a pokemon itll be from gen 8.
want: 25% eh id take.

you lizard to match a yellow mouse
chances: 0% i have my doubts about a second NB for this pass. plus while we fans may certainly count him as a video game character we have no reason to think sakurai thinks that. and what sakurai thinks goes before he changes his mind when it come to another character. disregarding all that i imagine there are other NB characters nintendo would suggest first.
want: 100% digimon is one of the best things ever.

anyone else come up with a new idea to rate since the noms stop? im never gonna remember it by next time

 

[GoodGrief741]

Lugia

Double zeroes. We're not getting a Pokemon and if we did it wouldn't be Lugia. Pokémon only adds the hot new thing to promote the latest game. As for want I like Lugia but it's just another Pokémon. Not something I'd hate nor something I'm dying to see. But it gets a zero because I'm tired of Pokémon in Smash.

Agumon

Also double zeroes lol. We just got Kazuya. We aren't getting another Bandai Namco character so soon. Also Agumon isn't anywhere near to being first in line, even with Digimon's renaissance.

As for want, I guess I don't really feel like Digimon's earned it? Like it never actually had great genre-defining games, it's more famous for its anime. It feels to me more like a license despite debuting as a game.

Cutie Gwen tomorrow is Dynasty Warriors character and Pokemon Legends Trainer

 

[SargeAbernathy]

Lugia

0% Of all the Pokémon to throw up, it's pretty unlikely. It's doesn't have a design that is advantageous for Smash. If you want to talk about some sort of new Boss challenge that included Lugia or Shadow Lugia, well that would make more sense. However, I don't even think that is likely.

I don't think the last fighter will be a Pokémon. If it was it would be a character playable in the Smash format. Cinderace, Intelleon, Toxtricity, Urshifu are the top Gen 8 possibilities. Outside that I could see an argument for Rhydon being the first Pokémon ever designed ... or perhaps a non-Pokémon like Giovanni, Cynthia, or Blue. I don't feel its going to be Pokémon, but do admit if they went first party... Pokémon would be higher on the list.


Agumon

5% Personally I feel Digimon should have a presence in Smash. Digimon was derivative of Bandai's Tamagotchi and Digital Monster keychain pets which were out at the same time Blue/Red came on to the scene. Those were a huge hit and a unique part of gaming history.

Eventually the Digimon franchise morphed into using similar elements of the Pokémon franchise. Pokémon certainly started the format, but Digimon kept up with them. Most other "Collect-Monsters" franchises have fallen or slipped into obscurity. If Pokémon has a rival similar to Mario/Sonic ... it would have to be Digimon.

That being said, despite Digimon having a plethora of games it's quite obvious they pale in comparison to Pokémon Games. Digimon's branding is much more reliant on their anime than Pokémon is. And it's this reason why a "rival" between Pokémon and Digimon isn't really a strong one. They followed the same path, are often compared, but they just aren't truly "the same".

Still, I love them. I feel like Pokémon should have a rival to balance them in Smash. Digimon and it's origin to Tamagotchi is still important in gaming history.



... but it isn't going to be Agumon. I'm giving him a 5% because I want him in Smash ... but realistically his chances are closer to .5%

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A game I got a goddamn bootleg of

Chance: 0% Lugia has literally nothing going for it, it's popular in context of Pokemon, sure, but not in terms of Smash, hell, nobody even seems to question the Pokeball unlike what happened for stuff like Zoroark and Mimikyu so I think it's very safe to say this isn't happening

Want: 0% I'm admittedly bitter on this, I decided to try out Johto again as I never beat it as a kid and didn't like it much as I was too used to Sapphire, I found a copy of SoulSilver that was pretty cheap so I got it and was looking forward to my first Pokemon experience in years... But it was a bootleg, it took me a while to look up what the hell was going on as the game would often crash and yup, it's a fake. I wouldn't even mind it being a fake but crashing randomly when you need to grind up as you never realize how much of a godsend full party EXP Share is in a game with notorious level curve issues made me so frustrated as I'd keep losing progress has soured me more on Johto than before.

Inferior to Gundramon

Chance: 5% Bamco's literally making the game themselves and people were vocal about wanting more Bamco characters and while we got Kazuya, I'm reminded of Kirby of all things, deliberately not given much out of bias but managed to get a ****ton of content in the next game. Call it a gut feeling, though there is a unique factor to Agumon, the gimmick. Digivolution is a nobrainer mechanic for Agumon, however, it means making 2 to 3 different fighters and I'm not entirely convinced Nintendo is willing to spend as much money needed for this.

Want: 80% Let's start with the negatives, like I mentioned early,Sakurai likely wouldn't implement a Digivolution mechanic as that means making 2 to 3 different fighters in one and I think the idea is so ****ing cool so I docked points in case solo Agumon were to ever happen. That being said I loved Digimon as a kid, loved the movie, liked a lot of what little I saw of Adventure 1 and adored Tamers! Earlier this year, which I believe was when we last rated Agumon in fact, I bought Cyber Sleuth and while the story and combat were servicable, I really enjoyed the vibes I had, especially sidequests that had more depth like researching ghost stories or helping a guy who keeps getting stalked by a Lilymon. While I didn't like how multiplayer had a set Memory level I couldn't seem to change, I did enjoy making a build against a friend that managed to demolish him lmao. Also, the bonus bosses, the Royal Knights and 7 Deadly Digimon slapped even if I hate how this game makes bosses immune to any and all strategy beyond "hit hard". Digimon in Smash would be an absolute treat.

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Rate Legends Trainer (Pokémon) & Concept: Dynasty Warriors character.

Also just a reminder that you can view the rest of the RTC schedule here.

Tomorrow we will be rating Eggman and Penny Crygor.

Megadoomer

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Music Post

Spoiler: Music Post

(Posting the Legends trailer instead of a song since it isn't out yet)

 

[DanganZilla5]

Legends Trainer

Chance: 20%

We all know the drill. Pokemon is prime shill potential and Nintendo has been giving a lot of focus on Legends Arceus so by all means this could happen. What also helps is that the three starters are Pokemon that we are already familiar with so Legends coming out 3 months after the character reveal would not be as big of a problem as other cases like with SMTV. The only major hurdle for this is the possibility that they go with a Gen 8 or 4 Pokemon instead, or choose something else entirely to shill.

Want: 20%

A three in one character? Not a bad offer, and I do like Rowlet, Cyndaquil and Oshawott and their evolutions. Not to mention it's the opportunity to give us a Pokemon from a generation (Gen 5) that missed out due to poor timing. But since it's Pokemon it automatically gets a lot of points taken off. Please go for a different franchise for this last character, Nintendo.

_____________________________

One Man Army: The Game

Chance: 25%

Dynasty Warriors is a criminally underrated franchise in Smash speculation. When it comes to Koei Tecmo, their primary candidates are this, Hayabusa, and an Atelier character. Well, Hayabusa got deconfirmed by one of the higher ups multiple times and I think Atelier is a bit too niche to be a realistic candidate. That just leaves Dynasty Warriors as Tecmo's frontrunner and I'll tell you all why a character from this series has a good shot for the last spot.

Let's start with some history shall we? The premise and characters of Dynasty Warriors are inspired by the novel, Romance of the Three KIngdoms. This novel explores the Three KIngdoms period in Chinese history which involved conflict and battles between the states of Cao Wei, Shu Han, and Eastern Wu. These groups came from the dwindling Han dynasty and they attempt to either restore it or replace it.

Now you may be thinking: Real history? Wouldn't this deconfirm Dynasty Warriors as the characters were real people? Well the thing about that is that Romance of the Three Kingdoms explores the characters in a more romanticised way that takes some liberties and rolls with it. It's not just historical, it also takes inspiration from myths and legends. Not only that, but Koei Tecmo inserted their own flair into the characters too and exaggerated them in some ways. So at that point the Dynasty Warriors cast are almost their own original characters. Also, Smash already has Dr. Kawashima, so that kind of nullifies this argument.

Moving on, Dynasty Warriors (DW) actually started out as a spinoff of Koei Tecmo's Romance of the Three Kingdoms role-playing video game series, which is based on the novel discussed above. The first DW game was, interestingly enough, a fighting game. It wasn't until the second game that the series adopted its now signature hack and slash gameplay style. The series has been around since the original PlayStation and now consists of 9 mainline games and a **** ton of spinoffs and licensed titles. These include:

• Dynasty Tactics
• Samurai Warriors
• Warriors Orochi
• Warriors All Stars
• Pirate Warriors
• Dynasty Warriors Gundam
• Persona 5 Strikers
• Berserk and the Band of the Hawk
• Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage
• Hyrule Warriors
• Fire Emblem Warriors

Aside from Dynasty Tactics which is a RPG, the rest take after DW's hack and slash gameplay where you mow down hordes of enemies in just a few combos. So DW pretty much created its own subgenre - Musou - within the hack and slash space. Games like Hyrule Warriors exist because of Dynasty Warriors, it has left a mark on the industry and is by far Koei Tecmo's biggest I.P.

Speaking of Koei and FE Warriors and Hyrule Warriors, Nintendo really has shown interest in Musou games with Koei making three games based on two of their properties (Hopefully that means more is coming, I need Xenoblade Warriors to be a thing). And in general the two companies are buddy-buddy. Other than that, DW has the usual credentials you'd expect in a Smash candidate - Nintendo history going back to the GBA, colorful characters with plenty of weapons for unique movesets, and even some games on the Switch to shill if they want.

Now the million dollar question: Will DW be CP11? Possibly. The games are popular, but not too popular to the point that I'd consider the I.P "too big" to be the last pick. And another thing to ponder, who would be the rep? Now I chose the general concept of a Dynasty Warriors character because I wanted people to examine the series as a whole, rather than just say "This other character could get in instead". But with this concept, we have more freedom to discuss who the most likely rep is. Because frankly that is a whole conversation on its own. See, Dynasty Warriors doesn't have one particular protagonist. It focuses evenly on multiple kingdoms, so there are a lot of characters that get a lot of attention and are important to the story. On the top of my head there is Lu Bu, Zhao Yun, Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and some others I'm not thinking of. It's basically a roll of the dice when it comes to this series. And that's no big deal, btw. It just gives Sakurai more options and freedom on who he thinks is the most interesting out of the bunch.

Want: 90%

If the giant section above didn't give it away, basically I really, really enjoy Musou games. They are seriously some of the coolest games out there. Just watching as you juggle a dozen enemies at once and then using a special to clear out the whole screen is a huge dopamine rush. Dynasty Warriors Gundam and Berserk Musou in particular are some of the most fun games I've experienced in recent times. And Dynasty Warriors on its own certainly has a charm to it. I'm still in the middle of learning about the Three Kingdoms history and getting to know the characters and it's been a great journey thus far.

Oh yeah, and the moveset potential is insane. I've been playing DW8 and there are dozens upon dozens of weapons that they could incorporate into the moveset. Spears, pikes, halberds, lances, axes, maces, spiked shields, circle blades, tridents, rapiers, and all kinds of cool **** like dual hook blades and other weapons designed to fling enemies into the air and juggle them. You have weapons that have wide range, allows you to charge through enemies like a bull, and with others you can combo enemies into the goddamn stratosphere.

Overall, I definitely think Dynasty Warriors deserves to get a rep in Smash. It has legacy, strong name recognition, and in general it's a badass series with passion behind it and some of the most addictive gameplay around.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Legends Trainer
Chance: 7%
I don’t like giving this a low score because it’s a fun concept and it’s not entirely unlikely, but the thing is that Pokémon is already split between three different games and that Legends Trainer is an insiduously precise concept (so it’s not even guaranteed to be a Trainer when they choose to work with the starters in Legends). Again, this all is a mad nitpicky way to lower the score when the core formula of “Pokémon is a good pick for a recent first party” could very well be right on the money, and Legends might be a good “sub-bet” to make in its turn.

Want: 70%
Three for the price of one, Rowlet in the game somehow? I can’t give this a low score even if I don’t particularly like the other two starters of this trio.

Dynasty Warriors
Chance: 15%
I think this is pretty likely. Koei Tecmo is conspiciously absent, even though it’s a big partner of Nintendo what with the several Musou Nintendo games coming out since Hyrule Warriors. Personally, I’m not interested in a who’s-who of possible company’s, but I do think that Dynasty Warriors would make for a good pick in Smash. Between Terry, Min Min, Steve and Kazuya, Smash DLC has recently made the endeavour to fit in characters that bring their own unique playstyle to the table, and Musou’s gameplay is one of the most identifiable out of the possible choices. It’s signature take on hack-and-slash with its CX-system (where the strong attack changes based on the amount of weak inputs made before it) would make for an interesting stringing playstyle in Smash Bros. and I feel for that reason it could make for a likely addition in Smash. People adepter in company speculation can tell you why Koei Tecmo would work well with Nintendo or whatever, I’m just looking at a pattern of games getting their controls ported to a Smash character and see a Musou character as a very likely next step.

Want: 80%
I’m predicting it so being right would be really fun, plus between the two Hyrule Warriors I’ve gotten pretty adept at the controls.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Legends Trainer
Chance: 0%. Game is way too far enough to choose anyone from it. It never had a real chance. The only realistic characters would've been Gen VIII or maybe someone from the DP remakes(and far less likely for this one).

Want: Abstain. Never really paid attention to the game.

Abstain on Dynasty Warriors.

 

[Lyncario]

see the thread is rating something Pokemon related

(don't pay attention to the part after Goku starts to talk)

Pokemon Legends: Arceus Trainer

Chance: 0%

Not gonna happen lmao. The game is releasing in January 2022, and the last fighter is revealed in less than a week, and will be released in a month at the very most if we estimate the case. So even in the case of the fighter releasing at the very end of October, even if mid-October is like the latest realistic date of release for CP11, the character would release 2 months and 2 weeks before the game releases. While the fighter technically already exist, I still don't see it hapening at all. And for the comparaison with Corrin, FE Fates was already released for at least 3 months in Japan before Corrin was revealed, while Legends:Arceus got a worldwide release. So in short, the trainer of Legends:Arceus somehow has it even worse than the Nahobino. Yeah, it's not an high bar to pass, and they failed it. Also there's the way that the trainer would assumedly be either like Pokemon trainer and so would be 3 characters in 1, which isn't going to happen (for reminder, Pyra and Mythra share the same normal moves and the same animations for their normals, while having different properties, so developping both isn't nearly as hard as devlopping Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, or here, a counterpart for them), or it would be the wild dream of the trainer being the fighter that summons pokemons for the moves while still doing the movement and taking the damages, which is admitedly far less impossible now seeing how the trainer in Legends Arceus can get attacked, and also it gets rides like Hissuan Braviary for recovery, so that part isn't nearly as impossible as before, for the next Smash. Because there's still the timing thing that kills their chances to be the final fighter.

Want: Idk, 75%?

I haven't played the game because it hasn't released yet and won't do so until January, but it looks pretty good, and the Pokemon trainer who's the actual fighter would be amazing to have in Smash, but we still have very little idea as to how that could actualy be since the game is, once again, not out yet and won't be for a good while. So I'm neutrally enthusiastic.

Dinasty Warrios

Abstain.

 

[BowserKing]

Legends Trainer
Chance: 10%. It could work well as a promotional rep, and there is multiple Pokémon to choose from, but the starters are more likely. With one slot left, a 3 in one fighter would give variety to the final slot, but it’s still a slim chance.
Want: 75% While none of us played Pokémon Legends Arceus yet, Legends Trainer would still be fun to play as, and I can see them face off against Pokémon trainer. Overall, the Legends trainer would make a great Smash Bros rep.

Dynasty Warriors
Chance: 5%. With one slot left, a rep from Dynasty Warriors is in a tight spot. A spirit Battle would be surprising as with Mii Costumes, but the chance is quite low.
Want: 50%. A rep from there would be fun to play as. Overall, a Dynasty Warriors Rep would make a decent Smash Bros rep.

 

[Sari]

Legends Trainer

Chance: 0%
I feel like this game started way too late to be considered. Even if it came in time, I feel like Gen 8 would have priority. Also even if they do try to rep Legends specifically, they might just go for an individual Pokemon rather than an entire trainer.

Want: 15%
Legends looks fun and I'd be down for getting multiple Pokemon from past Gens. I'm still burnt out on Pokemon though.

-----

Abstaining on Dynasty Warriors.

 

[fogbadge]

has to write their own pokedex

chances 0% content thats not out yet in smash seems to only be for stages and the occasional alt. and a few spirit events that were really in advance. sakurai seems to want to stick with characters whos games are out. closet weve gotten so far have been FE characters and we all know how sakurai feels about that.

want: 100% they have access to the three best starter pokemon. a trainer with those 3 pokemon would be the greatest pokemon character for me.

abstain on the other

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

LAST POKEMON RELATED RATING OF THIS THREAD EVERYBODY, HALLELUJAH!!!
Chance: 0%
The concept of a Trainer character really feels like a one time thing and I don't see it being replicated again. A 3 in 1 character would be way too intensive for a originally-not-planned DLC pass. Chances are, they'll stick to just adding one individual mon again. Timing is likely way off as well, one last time, it will be SW/SH or bust. It also wouldn't make sense for a DLC pack themed after a certain game be released months before said game actually comes out.

Want: 2%
I'm not interested in anything modern Pokemon right now. I will admit though, I do you really like the starter lineup. Cyndaquil, Oshawott and Rowlett are pretty much my favourite starters from their retrospective regions. There's no guarantee it would be those three specifically though and I'd still say I've had enough of Pokemon in Smash as a whole.

Abstaining too on Dynasty Warriors. HW AOC is the only experience I have with Warriors so far.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

DW

Chance: 5% It's still weird Tecmo Koei cooperated so much yet doesn't have any characters yet, so their flagship franchise certainly stands a chance in that regard, Musou is so iconic and has been especially something Nintendo's interested with 3 Musou games based on major Nintendo IPs. That's pretty damn good all things considered, only issue I have is that Capcom showed that a more popular character can get in before a flagship and as beloved as Three Kingdoms is, Hayabusa wins in the Smash request department.

Want: 60% I'm not very familiar with Dynasty Warriors itself nor do I have any of the Musou games as the ones I'm interested in had issues, was too expensive for how old it was or I didn't like the roster very much. Despite that I respect the series and really enjoy the idea of it getting a character as by default, I can easily see a focus on crowd control which I like as I actually do play FFAs. Another cool idea I heard is how the B button would be used like in my favourite ideas for Kazuma Kiryu where it'd be a combo finisher which depends on the input you previously did

Legends trainer

Chance: 5% I'm gonna be rather generous as despite the fact Legends releases next year which screws with the timing, the starters themselves are all quite old at this post, the youngest of the starter trio already being 5 years old at this point. However, similar to Agumon, I feel that a 3 in 1 character is off limits after Sakurai learned the hard way of why it'd be difficult as I'm pretty sure there's a reason he only picks starters for new gens now and keeps it at a single starter, even on hardware that can handle it, so I docked down a lot of points here.

Want: 15% I'm tired of Pokemon characters as I haven't enjoyed playing these games for the past 5 years though if BDSP is good I might get that and Legends does look legit interesting, so some leftover hope does tell me that a team of Oshawott, Quilava and Decidueye would be pretty cool all things considered

 

[GoodGrief741]

Musouman

Chance: 7%
It is still a distinct possibility, I won't go over the influence and legacy of Dynasty Warriors because others have done it but it definitely deserves a spot in Smash. Still, I ultimately doubt this because I just think they'd go for Hayabusa instead. DW being about historical figures seems like it would give Nintendo enough pause to make this not happen.

Want: it depends on who it is really

Ghost of Hisui

I see a lot of people seeing that there's no way they do this because Legends is 4 months away and like... Are you kidding? They wouldn't do that for Pokemon? The franchise that always gets preferential treatment to the point where Sakurai has admitted to saving a spot for a character years before release? With Pokemon being a yearly release, it's safe to assume that Legends was in development before late 2019 and that's pretty much all Nintendo would need to sign off on this if they were inclined, so this is absolutely plausible.

However, I still don't think this is going to happen. I have my reasons, and they are stupid. See, I have this theory: with how close CP11's reveal is to Metroid Dread's release, and how aggressively Nintendo has promoted the latter, my theory is that CP11 won't be a promotional pick* – it wouldn't make sense to put in all that effort on promoting one game and then drop a huge promotional bombshell for a different game in the final stretch. This is a complete 180° from what I've been predicting for months now, which if you think about it means that some version of me is guaranteed to be right!

Chance: 0%
Want: 0%

Another Trainer might be cool, whether it is because we're getting three Pokemon in one again (more bang for our buck) or because we finally get a Trainer fighting solo. And if it's the former option, we get Pokemon from old generations, which is something that many have clamored for.

But I'm also a person who likes videogames that don't have 10 fighters already so yeah more of that please

*The other, obvious outcome of this theory is that we get a promotional fighter for Dread, but that's not as interesting to discuss

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Today is glasses wearing scientists with catchy vocal themes day, so rate Eggman (Sonic the Hedgehog) & Penny Crygor (WarioWare)

Tomorrow we will be a triple day where we'll rate D.Va (Overwatch) & Captain Charlie (Pikmin) & Kraid (Metroid). Keep in mind though that the day will still be 24 hours.

Megadoomer

-----

Music Post

Spoiler: Music Post

-----

Eggman

Chance: 20%
An iconic villain and one of Sega's frontrunners. I think he has some slight edge over Tails due to being more unique so if we're getting another Sonic rep, I think it's him.

Want: 70%
My most wanted Sonic character and probably the most deserving villain to be in Smash right now. Granted I'm not too excited for another Sonic character in general, but I'd be alright with Eggman getting in.

-----

Penny Crygor

Chance: 0%
When it comes to another WarioWare rep, Penny has some big names to compete with. Characters such as Ashley, Mona, Kat & Ana, and 9-Volt to name a few would most likely have priority over her.

Want: 100%
I love the WarioWare games to the point where I'd give most of the main cast a 100% want score each. Penny is no exception as she's one of my favorite characters in the series, and if it came down to personal preference she's easily one of my top 3 picks for a second WarioWare character. Also her song from GIT is a banger and should absolutely be in Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sans Undertale

Chance: 1% Eggman exploded recently because of Sephiroth so I firmly believe he's gonna get hella overrated today as there's a lot going against him I feel. For starters, there's the competition, Tails, Knuckles and Shadow are all just as, if not more popular, but they all got a major role before him. Second, Sega. They are notoriously overprotective of Sonic and this does indeed get reflected in Smash imo as Sonic is very static in Smash 4 and is still static in Ultimate, with this likely being due to one of the infamous Ken Penders incidents, specifically the one where Sonic goes through an incredibly rough patch and Sega didn't like how 'pathetic' he was there. Also, Sonic didn't get any remixes beyond the single Angel Island Zone one from Brawl and I feel this isn't a coincidence.

Want: 30% I love Sonic and I love Eggman, I'd appreciate more content but I really cannot imagine how Eggman's supposed to work coherently with Sakurai's design philosophy of being as accurate at possible for third parties, as I can't imagine how he'd work properly, that docks a ****ton of points to me.

Abstaining on Penny, too unfamiliar despite my interest in WarioWare

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Coming to make an announcement
Chance: 7%
Somehow he blew up post-Sepiroth, as if Sepiroth would suddenly open to the floodgates to third party villains. I get that it’s cool to see and that Sepiroth did undoubtedly show that a second non-echo representative for an existing third party series is possible, but Eggman’s a few logical steps away from that to make any real difference.

The core reason this score is low is because competition within the Sonic series is memetically high. Tails is the Luigi of the series, and both Shadow and Knuckles have made it as Assist Trophies. All Sonic characters are popular on top of that, so Eggman is far from guaranteed to be the second Sonic rep. What‘s worse, Eggman’s Smash demand only really geared up post-Sepiroth which timing-wise isn’t exactly the biggest boon. That‘s a four-way split for just the score of the concept that Sonic gets its second rep which in itself is potentially likely, but not guaranteed.

Then we zoom out even more and look at SEGA as a whole, which is filled with other potential choices. Traditionally Japan-oriented heavy-hitters like Puyo Puyo and Phantasy Star, Shin Megami Tensei and maybe maybe in my dreams AiAi from Super Monkey Ball all mean that, while SEGA might be in a decent position to get the final slot (although I don‘t subscribe to the notion that the challenger packs are divided by company), it’s far from guaranteed to be Sonic. Let alone Eggman.

Want: 75%
Finally a newcomer in which I’m not a direct victim of my unwillingness to try new genres.

Who’s the girl next door, living in a laboratory
Chance: 1%
I was contemplating whether to abstain or to give her a low score. I might not know a lot about her but what I do know is that she isn’t Ashley, so I don’t really see the point of a second WarioWare character that’s not only not-Ashley, but also isn’t one of the more popular veterans like Jimmy T, Mona or 9-Volt. After them, the point of adding a WarioWare character drastically diminished.

Want: 40%
Yeah I dunno, she could be cool moveset-wise but she’s real random a choice.

 

[BowserKing]

Dr.Eggman
Chance: 25%. With one slot left, Eggman seems quite likely to get in, due to being an iconic villain. But with 2 villains already in the second fighter’s pass, it’s a slim yet promising point.
Want: 80%. Anything for a new Sonic characters and new remixes. Eggman would totally be fun to play as. Overall, Dr.Eggman would make a great Smash Bros rep.
Penny
Chance: 5%. She could work as a promotional rep, but the chance is quite low. But lots of stuff are possible these days.
Want: 50%. Would prefer Ashley, but she will be fun to play as regardless. Overall, she would make a decent Smash Bros rep.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

I was just about to consume this delicious banana
Chance: 1%
He got caught up in all the post-Sephiroth hype but there are numerous things going against him. He's the most important Sonic character that does not appear as anything other than a Spirit. On one hand you could view that as him not being deconfirmed and the only one who still has a chance but with show little to show for himself in the Smash series as a whole, it makes you wonder if some higher ups just view him as unimportant and not worth the effort at all. Honestly, Sonic representation in Smash in general feels pretty conservative for what it's worth. Something tells me that it might not be a case of tough luck that we don't have more than one remixed track or that Shadow did not get in as an echo, despite many thinking he was obvious. We are more than likely getting somebody from a different Sega franchise instead of another Sonic rep since Bayonetta and Persona at least feel like they got a ton more love.

Want: 80%
Eggman is still an amazingly fun and iconic character and he really just belongs in there. Sonic seriously needs any content it could get right now. He may not be my most wanted but I think Eggman definitely has the most potential of any discussed character, that goes both for moveset as well as everything else.

Aw sweet, a Penny!
Chance: 0%
I am not seeing a Warioware rep being the last fighter and when it comes to that series, Penny can kinda be considered a C-list character. There ought to be characters who are much more popular with both the fans and the team behind Warioware. Ashley is a good exemple.

Want: 0%
Warioware isn't a series I've really picked up since I was a child. Penny also isn't some mainstay I'm familiar with. I played Shake It were she invented a motor bike to throw at a guy I think, but I remembered her level being kinda annoying so I wasn't really a fan. Regardless, I just wouldn't be excited at the final character being a Wario rep.

 

[fogbadge]

my position on eggman hasnt changed since the last time we rated him so, chances: 50% want: 100% i can believe nintendo would suggest him and while he may not be tails hed be a fine addition to the roster.

as for penny ill say 0% on chance as i think there are more likely WW characters and abstain on want. though she would be better than other characters from the series.

 

[Laniv]

He Who Hates That Hedgehog

Chance: 14%

Thanks, Sephiroth. You managed to put Eggman on the map. However, I feel like it isn't enough at this point. Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow may out-prioritize him, and that's not including the possibility of Sega deciding to go for Classic Sonic.

Want: 60%

He's not Tails, but he'll do. He'd be fun with his big machines, and the taunt game would be cool.

Abstain on Penny

 

[DanganZilla5]

You know what they say,...The more the merrier

Chance: 5%

I believe that Eggman is way too big to not be revealed at E3 or TGA. Historically, Bayonetta is the biggest character we got for last and even then Eggman is a much bigger deal than her. If we are going to get another Sega rep for last, I'm expecting it to be more on the lines of Puyo Puyo, SMT, or Phantasy Star.

Want: 80%

How could I not want Eggman? He's funny, iconic, and would have a very cool moveset involving mechs. Plus Sonic deserves a second rep.

___________________________________________

Talk is cheap. So is singing, it costs 1 cent.

Chance: 5%

Nintendo gave WarioWare Get it Together a lot of love so I can see it getting a character. The problem is competition but if Ashley, the frontrunner, is indeed deconfirmed due to being an assist trophy (Which I doubt) then that does help Penny a bit. She would just have to go through 9 Volt and some others first. But if I had to bet on a WarioWare character, my bets are all on Ashley.

Want: Abstain

Outside of Wario and Ashley I barely know anything about the other characters so I can't really give an opinion on Penny.

 

[Sari]

Day over.

Rate D.Va (Overwatch) & Captain Charlie (Pikmin) & Kraid (Metroid).

Tomorrow will be our last regular chance/want day, so prepare yourselves for when we rate Joe Random (MLB: The Show), Concept: Crazy Taxi character... oh, and a little character by the name of Sora (Kingdom Hearts).

Megadoomer

-----

Music Post:

Spoiler: Music Post

-----

Abstaining for today.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dee Vasquez

Chance: 0% I see no reason to believe we'll get a bait and switch like this at all as the reason we got non protags was because of specific circumstances, but what circumstances does D.Va have that would have her outprioritize Tracer, the popular protag with plenty of unique stuff and no real issues? If this was Tracer I'd give a higher score as despite ActiBlizzard being garbage I'm aware that the deal would already have been finalized before the truth came out and Nintendo would obviously not break their contract for any reason.

Want: Abstaining, no real opinion.

Charlie Brown

Chance: 0% Pikmin isn't really something I see Nintendo wanting to promote at this point, 3 got it's long awaited port, but that was a while ago and Pikmin 3 already had content in Smash 4, most notably Alph being an alt, almost an echo had there been a bit more time. I also think Sakurai somewhat regrets how he handled Olimar based on the technical issues so assuming he actually can think of a way to make Charlie different, he'd be well aware of how much stuff he needs to put in the screen. Finally, Pikmin doesn't really get a lot of push for more Smash content in general and when it's there, it's usually Louie people say or Alph being seperated. But let's say Sakurai goes nuts with Nintendo also going mad: I don't see them picking Charlie as if anything, Brittney seems to be more popular than him too.

Want: 0% I respect Pikmin and had multiple times where I almost bought a Pikmin game, but Olimar is very unfun to play as imo and if I'm gonna be honest, I don't see how a second character would play any different from Olimar at all and let's be real, Smash actually encourages that idea by having Alph as an alt which doesn't bode well for Charlie or Brittney at all. I agree with that mindsight so a 0 it is.

The biggest ************ in town

Chance: 0% He's too ****ing big. I know we did this song and dance before with Ridley but Ridley could always reasonably be downsized, but Kraid? As in, "I'm so ****ing massive that I don't have a full sprite in both of my major appearances" Kraid? Nah man, Fake Kraid exists sure, but a single one off enemy likely meant as a joke doesn't cut it for me here and we know that Sakurai only gave Ridley another shot due to his overwhelming popularity. Kraid has no Smash demand and as Kraid's never shown to be brutal or anything that can keep him intimidating when removing his giant ass status, that's not gonna fly in his book.

Want: 0% Kraid simply isn't fighter material and he feels like such a forced suggestion to either go "muh reps" or to take the piss out of the too big argument which novody really cares about anymore, I love him and I'll always hold Metroid near and dear, but I would genuinely prefer a boss fight as you can easily make him dynamic as hell with platforms, especially the ones he shoots out of his gross stomach holes.

 

[DanganZilla5]

D.Va

Chance: 2%

At this point I don't think we are getting a western character, call it a gut hunch. Especially if we put Overwatch on the same scale as Crash, in which case it would be too big to be last. I've been setting my expectations real low for this next fighter, either it will be a first party or a niche third party leaning towards Japanese favoritism because Smash bias. Besides, D.Va isn't guaranteed to be the Overwatch rep or even the first Activision rep.

Want: 0%

I did not care about Overwatch after trying out the limited time free trial. And of course I'm biased towards the bandicoot so this would sting a lot.

________________________________-

Charlie and the Pikmin Factory

Chance: 7%

Again, when it comes to Pikmin being CP11, it would have to rely on Nintendo saving the last character to be decided later on, or they anticipated Pikmin's surge in popularity and success. Otherwise any Pikmin character's chances would be next to zero since during 2019, Pikmin's future was unknown and Nintendo didn't pick up the slack on merchandise and marketing until early this year. As for Charlie himself, he has the advantage of being one of the main characters of Pikmin 3, but that means he isn't guaranteed to be the rep either.

Want: Abstain

Never played Pikmin and am too unfamiliar with Charlie to give an opinion.

__________________________________________________________

Kraid

Chance: 15%

Nintendo has been promoting Metroid Dread hardcore so I can see Metroid getting another character. Now what saves Kraid's chances is that he is in the same situation as Ridley where his original appearance is human-sized, so he could work as a fighter (Which is the direction that Sakurai took to make Ridley realizable). When it comes to Metroid as a whole, Kraid is one of the most likely characters as he is a recurring enemy and we know he will appear in Metroid Dread, although the extent of his importance to the story remains to be seen.

Oh yeah, and I can already see people going "Well he appears in the Brinstar Depths stage!"....so what? This is the game where you can have Chrom join Robin in beating up another Chrom. I don't think background appearances are that much of a hindrance to a character's chances. I always thought this argument was kind of stupid especially since all the way back to the N64 game you could have 4 versions of the same exact character fighting. It's not like Smash is canon to the lores or anything, it's a fighting game, anything goes.

Want: 20%

Kraid is cool and all and he would be a great choice for the next Metroid rep. But like I said before I'm not much of a fan of Metroid so he wouldn't do much for me. I do give him points though for being a monster so he would stand out from the majority of the roster.

 

[fogbadge]

abstain on over rated watch. charlie and kraid both have a chance of 0% i cant see nintendo suggesting them. i can see nintendo suggesting a character from pikmin or metroid but i just think there are others sakurai would go for first. as for want ill go with 0% for kraid, while im pleased to see him return in metroid im not bothered about hum being playable and charlie ill give a 5% too, not got much against him i just like nearly every other pikmin protag more.