Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

[GoodGrief741]

THESE CHARACTERS ARE LOCKED DOWN, NOMINATIONS FOR THEM ARE OBSOLETE

October 23: Kyo Kusanagi (The King of Fighters) & Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)

October 24: Dovahkiin (The Elder Scrolls) & Concept: More than five unique newcomers (excluding Inkling and Ridley)

October 25: Papyrus (Undertale) & Tsubasa Oribe (Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE)

October 26: Edelgard (Fire Emblem) & Concept: Black Knight as a boss character

October 27: Snip & Clip (Snipperclips) & Concept: All-Star Versus

October 28: Concept: Fire Emblem Three Houses protagonist & Concept: Octopath Traveler character

October 29: Item: Beast Ball (Pokémon) & Concept: Punch-Out newcomer

Surprise! Next week is all double days. The main reason for this is to get more nominees rated, thus hopefully people without anything to nominate will move on to save other things from the purge. Here’s hoping it works out! I think the schedule worked out surprisingly well, we have a healthy mix of characters and concepts. Not much to add, other than I’m surprised Merric didn’t manage to squeak in. Oh well.

The new top seven consists of Merric, Susie Haltmann, Barbara the Bat, Project Zero/Fatal Frame protagonist, Sans as a boss character, Poke Floats, and a tie between 2B and Slime.

Spoiler: Nominations post-Rick, Coo & Kine pre-DeMille/Reimu Hakurei

Merric (Fire Emblem) x140
Susie Haltmann x139
Barbara the Bat x137
Project Zero/Fatal Frame Protagonist x132
Sans as a boss character x132
Stage: Poke Floats x130
2B x126
Slime x126

150 - 101

Daroach x125
Concept: Character alternate costume DLC x125
Guzma (Pokémon) x120
Zeraora (Pokemon) x118
Klonoa x117
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x115
Concept: Pikmin Newcomer x115
Saki Amamiya x115
Pokemon Trainer (Gen 2) x114
Gooey x113
Xurkitree (Pokémon) x113
The Prince (Katamari) x113
Raiden (Metal Gear) x110
Rhythm Girl x110
Concept: Cross series Echoes x105
Tora & Poppi x102

100 - 51

Concept: Ken Masters alt Costume for Ryu x96
Viewtiful Joe x95
Concept: Only 4-6 newcomers for base roster x90
Silvally x86
Chorus Kids x77
Yu Narakumi x76
Frank West x75
Concept: Historical Character x75
Earthworm Jim x74
Veronica x73
9-Volt x73
[Rerate] Steve? x71
Concept: Any Minecraft representation x69
Item: Breidablik x65
Toon Zelda x65
Joker (Persona) x64
Endou Mamoru x62
[Rerate] Sora x60
Concept: Shin Megami Tensei Character x56
Leo (Fire Emblem) x55
Concept: DLC character pass x55
Concept: Break the Targets & Board the Platforms stage builder x55
Stage: Melemele Island x55
Concept: Wars Characters x53
Quote x53
Takumi (Fire Emblem) x51

50 - 25

[Rerate] Spyro x45
Donbe and Hikari (Shin Onigashima) x44
Adeleine x44
Concept: Unique newcomer with low support (less than 20 supporters on Smashboards) x40
Concept: Xenoblade newcomer x40
Stage: Ultra Space x35
Assist Trophy: Chun-Li x35
Box Theory x34
Kat & Ana x33
Concept: Unique puzzle game rep x27
Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong x25
Blacephalon (Pokemon) x25
Master Chief x25

Under 25

Blog Theory x24
[Rerate] Gengar x22
[Rerate] Concept: Zelda newcomer x20
Stage: Yoshi’s Crafted World x20
Sub-Zero x17
Concept: Modern Kirby Stage (Post Kirby Air Ride) x15
Concept: Custom Moves return x15
Concept: Custom Alternate Colors x15
Alexandra Roivas x15
[Rerate] Cranky Kong x15
Big Boss x15
[Rerate] Excitebiker x11
[Rerate] Porky Minch x11
Ryuhi (Flying Dragon) x10
Metal Sonic x10
Dr. Lobe (Big Brain Academy) x10
Cross (Xenoblade Chronicles X) x10
Break the Targets x10
Protector (Etrian Odyssey) x10
Concept: Dragon Quest content x10
Bub & Bob x10
Conker x10
Concept: Danganronpa music x10
Volleyball Girl (NES Volleyball) x8
Stage Builder x8
Zeke (Xenoblade 2) x6
Stage: Gyromite Stage x5
Nia (Hyrule Warriors) x5
Concept: Valve Newcomer x5
Stage: SR388 x5
Concept: Playable Indie Character x5
Blaze the Cat x5
Alm x5
[Rerate] Octoling x5
Yandere Chan (Yandere Simulator) x5
Concept: Team Rocket as a Pokémon Trainer Echo x5
Cooking Mama x5
Playable Master Hand x5
Pam (Stardew Valley) x5
Captain Syrup x5
Concept: Return of Palutena’s Guidance/Codec Calls x5
Concept: Free DLC characters x5
Jin (Xenoblade) x5
Concept: Assist Trophy DLC x5
[Rerate] Black Shadow x5
Doshin the Giant x5
Stage: Mute City Melee x5
[Rerate] Lloyd Irving x5
[Rerate] Ryu Hayabusa x5
Bartz Klauser x5
Stage: Tetris x5
Elite Beat Agents x5
Erdrick x5
King Hippo x4
[Rerate] Ayumi Tachibana x4
Concept: New Yoshi item x4
Black Mage x4
Stanley the Bugman x3
[Rerate] Ninten x3
Creeper x3
Concept: WarioWare newcomer x2
Concept: F-Zero newcomer x2
Assist Trophy: Creeper x2
Diskun x1
Item: Wumpa Fruit x1
Birdo x1
Goomba x1

DLC character pass, Break the Targets & Board the Platforms Stage Builder, Melemele Island and Quote all pass 50 nominations.

Concept: Unique puzzle game rep gets out of the under 25 club.

 

[Ridrool64]

The former, I give a 5% chance and a 10% want. Him killing obscurity would be nice, but I doubt DeMille will get that chance. Unless Stickers come back, I doubt this guy will be in the game at all. Today was the first day I'd ever heard of him.

Reimu is a much more interesting subject. I give her a 20% chance and a 35% want. Her claim to fame is basically being among the most recognizable bullet hell characters in gaming history. However she's not very recognizable outside of Japan, where she's just not as niche. I mostly want her out of greed: she helps my most wanted.

Noms: Unique Puzzle Game Rep x 5.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

SOME OBSCURE DJANGO RABBIT THAT HATES TOMATOES FOR SOME REASON
Chance: 0%
Want: 5%

Did some research: Completely obscure, solely eastern based, unsuccessful GBA character with no following whatsoever. Somehow Sakurai was found talking about DeMille in some form, and that got people thinking that he was gonna be in Brawl. But that didn't happen, AND he also wasn't in the forbidden 7 characters that got scrapped during the final release. At least he would have a semi-interesting moveset. I'm gonna move on before the walls get covered in tomato juice.

YAY ANOTHER ANIME CHARACTER! Wait a minute...

Chance: 0.5%
Want: 0%
Sorry Sid-cada

Reimu is a character from the Touhou Project series that is solely eastern based, but unlike "Windmill" up above, she is super successful and has a massive following in her region. The main HUGE problem is that Reimu is extremely obscure in the west, and while Japanese fans will be super excited, western fans will be left scratching their heads as they're wondering who this character is. I never knew of her existence until I saw Billybae10K 's RTC video with her in it. Now I will let him explain the rest about Reimu.

Go to 7:47 for Reimu

Predictions: Balloon Fighter 5%
Kyo Kusanagi 1%

Nominations: Xurkitree x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

DeMille

Chance: 3%
He’s not going to happen without some good fan support. I think there are like 4 people who frequent his thread, so it’s safe to say that we don’t count as anything massive. Maybe when the game gets fan-translated he’ll gain a following, here’s hoping. Gave him a 3 because some weird things have been going on at AlphaDream (DeMille got a redesign out of nowhere) and because he has too much moveset potential.

Want: 100%
What can I say? Obscure just gets me.

Reimu Hakurei

Chance: 5%
I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention how huge Touhou is in Japan, and how she’s the face of a whole genre. But she’s also obscure everywhere else, Touhou is niche as **** and I don’t think she was ever in a Nintendo console. There’s also the fact that she’d be awkward to implement imo.

Abstain from want

Kyo prediction: 1.2%
Balloon Fighter prediction: 8%

Nominations: would like to do Saki, but I guess I gotta act what I preach, so I’ll try to save somebody from the purge

Chorus Kids X5

 

[FamicomDisk]

Whoa, it's DeMille's day?! Wow! I haven't participated in this game for a while, but I feel like I need to participate in this one. I'm sure lots of people are unfamiliar with him, so as someone who really likes him and his game, hopefully I can help shed some light on him and his origins!

So...


------


DeMille's chance: 10%

Before I begin - I'm not super confident that DeMille will be playable, hence the low percent. However, I think there's a pretty good chance that he will appear in some form, like a trophy, Assist Trophy, etc.

Here's why!

-AlphaDream began recruiting new graphic designers in July 2018. The site's recruitment page features a brand-new piece of artwork of DeMille and Pasaran (another character from his game), featuring updated designs and a new art style! Check it out below.

They haven't shown up anywhere since the original game in 2002, yet suddenly they appear with brand new designs! This seems to indicate that a game featuring them is in the works. If so, DeMille would have modern relevance again, and depending on how the game does, his obscurity could fade away!

-During the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Sakurai had a poll where Japanese fans could send in messages, suggesting characters, attacks, stages, and more. Sakurai then chose some of his favorites, and posted them to the site. Most of the characters on there only appeared once, but DeMille was suggested twice, both with very detailed and expansive descriptions of concepts and ideas for how he could play. You can check out a list of suggestions here. Very important to note - 22 characters appeared more than once. Of these 22, 8 have become playable in either Brawl or Smash 4, and a whopping 19/22 have shown up in some capacity, be it as a trophy, an assist trophy, a costume, an item referencing them, a stage boss, or otherwise. Only three characters - DeMille, Oguma, and Sukapon - have yet to appear in any capacity... and Sukapon has already been confirmed as an Ultimate Assist Trophy, meaning a mere two characters remain that haven't shown up yet! Here are both of the suggestions for DeMille.

Spoiler: No. 283

No. 283
Nickname - Spring Breeze
Post Topic - Character Suggestions

The moment I saw the site, I got the same feeling as when I start a new game for the first time, or when I go to a festival. When I told my friends about it over the holidays, it became
a popular topic. I felt that, like festivals, this is a rare event...! I'd like for the veteran character, Zelda, to return. I remember kicking my opponents with the Lightning Kick.

On a different note, please let DeMille, the protagonist of "Tomato Adventure", join as a participating character. I doubt it's possible, but unlike my brother and sister, I'm not giving up yet. Even though suggesting characters is the topic of discussion, there are already so many characters... Despite the cutesy design of the characters and packaging, I think it's a very good and interesting game. There are many bosses, many areas, and lots of enemies to defeat and mysteries to solve! DeMille has lots of crazy adventures, and I want to see that courageous character once again. He's got a lot of Gimmicks, but I think that's OK! Just imagine him grabbing the Smash Ball and using the Tomato Robot Mk. II - thinking about him appearing as a character makes me feel incredibly excited, and he'd be a unique character, using his Gimmicks to fight. He's unique, so it'd be a shame to leave him so obscure. SSBB, let the sun rise for DeMille once again!

Thanks for letting us participate in this event. I'm sorry for writing such a long request while you're busy working. Please keep up the hard work, and be sure to take care of yourself. I'm really looking forward to the game!

Spoiler: No. 246

No. 246
Nickname - Yes Gimmicker
Post Topic - Character Suggestions

Hello, how are you? I'm writing today to ask if you could please put DeMille, the hero of Tomato Adventure, into Smash Bros. as soon as possible.

...It's probably impossible, I'm sorry.

But after hearing about the new Super Smash Bros. Brawl information, I started to think about DeMille fighting in the world of SSBB. DeMille could fight using many of his colorful Gimmicks. And for his Final Smash, there are many amazing moves he could use (Tomato Robot Mk. II, gluttonous Sofubi, Patharan's Song, etc.) What a thing to imagine! It makes me feel like I'm riding a roller coaster - my heart pounding - just before it reaches the top. It's so exciting that I get knots in my stomach!

DeMille and his game aren't too well-known, but lots of people remember his commercial, "Tomatomatomato Ketchupupu?". [NOTE: You can see the commercial here!] Did people think it was a commercial for ketchup or tomatoes? (I did the first few times I saw it.) I think it was a very fun game, and I'm sure that everyone who played it has memories of getting stuck and grinding in the Gimmick Palace, and singing and dancing while listening to the final boss' theme. A few people are probably still singing and dancing to it today!

It would be unfortunate for this "game of ketchup" to fade away. But maybe it could see the light again on the big stage known as SSBB... I doubt he'll have another game, so at the very least, he could be a character in Smash (is there enough time?) Sorry for the long message, and thanks for considering DeMille.

-In the previous point, I brought up the possibility that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate could be where the final three characters from the Brawl poll who appeared multiple times - DeMille, Oguma, and Sukapon - could show up. During E3 2018, Sukapon was confirmed as an Assist Trophy. This means that characters from Brawl's list are still showing up, two games later! With Sukapon confirmed, this leaves just two characters left - DeMille and Oguma! If they do more from the Brawl list than just Sukapon... then DeMille's got a very good chance of showing up in some capacity!

-While Tomato Adventure itself hasn't been referenced or mentioned by Nintendo much since its release, it got re-released on the Japanese Wii U Virtual Console in 2015!

-The company behind Tomato Adventure, AlphaDream, is owned by Nintendo, and they're still putting out games frequently today, though they're almost all Mario and Luigi games. Since DeMille is the protagonist of one of the company's few original game concepts, he could be added to thank AlphaDream for their hard work over the years!

-On the topic of AlphaDream, they've recently been remaking the Mario and Luigi games. If they ever decide to remake Tomato Adventure, or make a sequel (which seems possible, based on what I mentioned in the first point!), DeMille could be added to Smash to promote. Or it could go the other way around - DeMille gets added as a classic GBA character, and then based on how the fans like him, they remake his game following that.

It seems like a number of things are lining up, so I definitely think it's possible that he'll show up in some form, even if it's not playable!


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DeMille want: 100%

DeMille is my most-wanted character, so of course I wouldn't put anything besides 100%! I love his game, love his character, and I think he has some amazing potential for an awesome and unique moveset.

Here are some ideas I put together:

Spoiler: DeMille Moveset

Entrance

Drives onto the stage in his Snea-car, but the seat ejects with DeMille in it, landing him in his starting position while the car drives off screen. (This references the animation that plays when you fail the Snea-car game - can be seen in this video from 4:03 - 4:07!)

Ground Attacks

Neutral: Delivers two punches with gloves, and then deals an uppercut with an image of a dragon surrounding his fist, sending the opponent backwards diagonally. Each punch deals 2%, and the uppercut deals 5%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:51 - 0:58!)

Forward Tilt: Throws out his Gear Yoyo once, pulling it in quickly. Deals 8%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:00 - 0:03!)

Up Tilt: Throws his Gear Yoyo upwards, pulling it back quickly. Deals 8%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:00 - 0:03!)

Down Tilt: Kicks quickly, spinning around with each A press - similar to Lucas', but he stays closer to the ground. Deals 3% per hit. (Not based on anything in particular!)

Dash Attack: Dives forward, with arms outstretched. Works similarily to Pikachu's dash attack. Deals 10%. (Not based on anything in particular!)

Smash Attacks

Forward: Smashes down with Noisy Face, launching the opponent. Deals 20% uncharged, 25% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:27 - 0:31!)

Up: Puts his hands together and closes his eyes, and brings his head down slowly as he charges the attack. When the attack is released, he stands up straight and bows, releasing the Paper Crane above him, along with some flower petals that are only cosmetic. Deals 13% uncharged, 18% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:33 - 0:39!)

Down: A Pyramid appears on top of his hat, and he closes his eyes and moves his hands up and down as he charges the attack. When released, a triangle appears around him, damaging opponents within it, and then shatters, blasting everyone within it away. Deals 15% uncharged, 20% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:30 - 0:35!)

Aerial Attacks

Neutral: Spins around using his Tanooki Tail. Deals 4% if it it barely hits, or 10% if the opponent is close. (This move can be seen in this video!)

Up: Thrusts a Noisy Face upwards, slamming the opponent. Deals 15%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:27 - 0:31!)

Forward: Slams a Noisy Face forwards, slamming downwards. If it connects just right, it deals a Meteor Smash! Deals 10%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:27 - 0:31!)

Back: Kicks backwards. Deals 10%. (Not based on anything in particular!)

Special Attacks

Neutral: When B is held, the Linear Glove appears on DeMille's hand, and begins charging. When released, DeMille shoots the Linear Glove off of his hand, shooting it quickly across the field. Deals 15% uncharged, and 25% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:16 - 0:22!)

Side: Pulls out Chomper, and makes it bite the opponent. Deals the most damage if the opponent is at the tip, right where the mouth is. Deals 10%, or 17% at the tip. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:25 - 0:29!)

Up: DeMille will hop onto his hoverboard, and fly upwards while B is held. He can be moved left and right while riding the board. After a time, the board will stop going up, the rockets will turn off, and it will begin to fall. At any time during the move (including once it begins falling), DeMille can leap upwards and off the the board by pressing A, allowing for a little more height. Does not cause any damage usually, but if DeMille leaps off the board, it will explode once it hits the ground, dealing 5% to an opponent hit by it. (Based on his hoverboard from the game, which isn't an attack - can be seen in this video from 5:52 - 10:30!)

Down: DeMille will pull out Mr. Volcano, who will send a flaming boulder in front of DeMille. The boulder deals 20%, and players will take small amounts of damage if they touch Mr. Volcano. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:05 - 0:10!)

Grabs

Pummel: Headbutts the opponent. Deals 2% per hit.

Up Throw: Picks up the opponent, then uppercuts them, with an image of a dragon surrounding his fist. Deals 7%.

Down Throw: Pushes the opponent to the ground, and then immediately slams them with a Noisy Face. Deals 8%.

Forward Throw: Kicks the opponent forwards. Deals 6%.

Back Throw: Spins the opponent around, and then kicks them from behind. Deals 7%.

Miscellanious Attacks

Getting Up from a Fall: Spins around and kicks, and then hops up. Very similar to Ness and Lucas. Deals 5%.

Ledge Attack: Rolls up over the ledge and kicks downwards. Deals 5%.

Taunts

Up: Takes out a tomato, looks at it hesitantly, and then eats it. He gags, puts an arm over his stomach and covers his mouth, and leans forward, and then closes his eyes, shakes his head, and straightens back up. (This doesn't reference any specific scene or pose, but it references DeMille's dislike of tomatoes.)

Side: Turns to the screen, and then strikes the pose he does in the opening sequence. (The pose in question can be seen on the alternate costumes area of this post, but I'll put them here too for convenience. Here's that pose!)

Down: Closes his eyes, and in a panic, flails his arms and legs around. (This references his panicked animation from Tomato Adventure, which he does fairly often. Check it out at 2:05 in this video!)

Final Smash: Tomato Robot Mk. II

DeMille calls out, "Aresa!", and is sucked upwards by a beam of light. He appears inside a robot cockpit with Aresa - one of his party members from Tomato Adventure - where they high five, and then look through the window, where the battlefield is. A reticle appears, and you can aim it at an opponent similar to the Dragoon. Like the the Dragoon, everyone can continue to move while you aim. Pressing A will cause the robot to attack the selected spot, locking everything in place and dealing several hits with heart-shaped bullets. DeMille will then hop out of the cockpit and return to the battlefield, coming down in another beam of light. If you successfully target a player, it deals 75% to the target. (This is based on an Extreme Attack from Tomato Adventure, which you can see in this video!)

In addition, I also made a concept for a "difficulty modifier", based on a mechanic from his origin game, that lets you choose whether to sacrifice consistent damage for higher damaging sweet spots, or give you consistent, but lower damage everywhere on your attacks. In other words, you can modify how he fights on the fly! Here's the idea in more detail:

Spoiler: Difficulty Modification

DeMille's origin game, Tomato Adventure, is an turn-based RPG with a cool battle mechanic in that each and every attack is associated a unique minigame - completing the game rewards you with higher damage, while failing will give a far lower amount. One of them, for example, requires you to time an A press so your cursor stops within a certain range - another is as simple as mashing A to fill up a bar before time runs out. And there are a ton of them! Each character can equip 4 weapons to use as attacks, so you can pick the minigames you're best at!

But there's another mechanic along with that - you can freely modify the difficulty of each game, going from difficulty Lv 1 to Lv 7, and the higher the difficulty, the higher the damage if you complete it! Playing minigames for every attack wouldn't work in a fast-paced game like Smash, but I think the difficulty modification could be adapted to work really interestingly! My thinking is that one move - maybe his neutral special - would change the "difficulty" of his attacks between Lv 1 and Lv 7. At Lv 1, his attacks would do the same damage everywhere as long as it connects, but at Lv 7, all of his attacks are made weaker and do less knockback, but they all gain a sweet spot similar to Marth's tipper. Hitting with an attack's sweet spot deals far more damage than any attack at Lv 1, and does far more knockback!

It's entirely possible that if he joined the game, he'd come without this mechanic, but it would open up a lot of different ways to play him! Would you play it safe, keep his attacks at Lv 1, and rack up the damage over time? Or will you crank it up to Lv 7 from the beginning and try to hit the sweet spot for every move, netting early kills? Or maybe you'll rack up damage at Lv 1, and then set it to Lv 7 once you're ready to get the KO. It would definitely make DeMille very unique, and there's no mechanic quite like this in Smash!

And to give a quick look at how he might play, I made a few GIFs that showcase some of his abilties. Here they are! The moveset above contains a complete set for all of his moves.

Even if you're unfamiliar with the character, I think that he's got a lot of potential for a fun and unique moveset that no other character has done!

Thanks for reading! I realize he's probably a long shot, but hey, we've all got a dream character, right? If you're curious to learn more about him, the support thread is right here!


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Reimu chance: 5%

I'm not super familiar with her games, but Touhou is one of the most well-known bullet hell series, so it's not impossible. I know she has a decent following, and Touhou games are already on the Switch, so while I don't think it's likely, it's possible she could be a candidate for DLC if another ballot happens.


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Reimu want: 5%
Touhou is popular, so I'd be happy for its fans! But I'm not personally familiar with the series, so I don't have any connection to its characters.

-----

My character's day has come, so I'm happy to vote for whoever. If anyone wants help getting a character voted up, let me know!

Today, GoodGrief741 asked me to nominate the Chorus Kids!

Nominations:
Chorus Kids x5

 

[PeridotGX]

Quadruple abstain. I don't know that much about Touhou, and I literally learned who the other one is today.

Nominations: Cross Series Echoes x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

Whoa, it's DeMille's day?! Wow! I haven't participated in this game for a while, but I feel like I need to participate in this one. I'm sure lots of people are unfamiliar with him, so as someone who really likes him and his game, hopefully I can help shed some light on him and his origins!

So...


------


DeMille's chance: 10%

Before I begin - I'm not super confident that DeMille will be playable, hence the low percent. However, I think there's a pretty good chance that he will appear in some form, like a trophy, Assist Trophy, etc.

Here's why!

-AlphaDream began recruiting new graphic designers in July 2018. The site's recruitment page features a brand-new piece of artwork of DeMille and Pasaran (another character from his game), featuring updated designs and a new art style! Check it out below.

They haven't shown up anywhere since the original game in 2002, yet suddenly they appear with brand new designs! This seems to indicate that a game featuring them is in the works. If so, DeMille would have modern relevance again, and depending on how the game does, his obscurity could fade away!

-During the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Sakurai had a poll where Japanese fans could send in messages, suggesting characters, attacks, stages, and more. Sakurai then chose some of his favorites, and posted them to the site. Most of the characters on there only appeared once, but DeMille was suggested twice, both with very detailed and expansive descriptions of concepts and ideas for how he could play. You can check out a list of suggestions here. Very important to note - 22 characters appeared more than once. Of these 22, 8 have become playable in either Brawl or Smash 4, and a whopping 19/22 have shown up in some capacity, be it as a trophy, an assist trophy, a costume, an item referencing them, a stage boss, or otherwise. Only three characters - DeMille, Oguma, and Sukapon - have yet to appear in any capacity... and Sukapon has already been confirmed as an Ultimate Assist Trophy, meaning a mere two characters remain that haven't shown up yet! Here are both of the suggestions for DeMille.

Spoiler: No. 283

No. 283
Nickname - Spring Breeze
Post Topic - Character Suggestions

The moment I saw the site, I got the same feeling as when I start a new game for the first time, or when I go to a festival. When I told my friends about it over the holidays, it became
a popular topic. I felt that, like festivals, this is a rare event...! I'd like for the veteran character, Zelda, to return. I remember kicking my opponents with the Lightning Kick.

On a different note, please let DeMille, the protagonist of "Tomato Adventure", join as a participating character. I doubt it's possible, but unlike my brother and sister, I'm not giving up yet. Even though suggesting characters is the topic of discussion, there are already so many characters... Despite the cutesy design of the characters and packaging, I think it's a very good and interesting game. There are many bosses, many areas, and lots of enemies to defeat and mysteries to solve! DeMille has lots of crazy adventures, and I want to see that courageous character once again. He's got a lot of Gimmicks, but I think that's OK! Just imagine him grabbing the Smash Ball and using the Tomato Robot Mk. II - thinking about him appearing as a character makes me feel incredibly excited, and he'd be a unique character, using his Gimmicks to fight. He's unique, so it'd be a shame to leave him so obscure. SSBB, let the sun rise for DeMille once again!

Thanks for letting us participate in this event. I'm sorry for writing such a long request while you're busy working. Please keep up the hard work, and be sure to take care of yourself. I'm really looking forward to the game!

Spoiler: No. 246

No. 246
Nickname - Yes Gimmicker
Post Topic - Character Suggestions

Hello, how are you? I'm writing today to ask if you could please put DeMille, the hero of Tomato Adventure, into Smash Bros. as soon as possible.

...It's probably impossible, I'm sorry.

But after hearing about the new Super Smash Bros. Brawl information, I started to think about DeMille fighting in the world of SSBB. DeMille could fight using many of his colorful Gimmicks. And for his Final Smash, there are many amazing moves he could use (Tomato Robot Mk. II, gluttonous Sofubi, Patharan's Song, etc.) What a thing to imagine! It makes me feel like I'm riding a roller coaster - my heart pounding - just before it reaches the top. It's so exciting that I get knots in my stomach!

DeMille and his game aren't too well-known, but lots of people remember his commercial, "Tomatomatomato Ketchupupu?". [NOTE: You can see the commercial here!] Did people think it was a commercial for ketchup or tomatoes? (I did the first few times I saw it.) I think it was a very fun game, and I'm sure that everyone who played it has memories of getting stuck and grinding in the Gimmick Palace, and singing and dancing while listening to the final boss' theme. A few people are probably still singing and dancing to it today!

It would be unfortunate for this "game of ketchup" to fade away. But maybe it could see the light again on the big stage known as SSBB... I doubt he'll have another game, so at the very least, he could be a character in Smash (is there enough time?) Sorry for the long message, and thanks for considering DeMille.

-In the previous point, I brought up the possibility that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate could be where the final three characters from the Brawl poll who appeared multiple times - DeMille, Oguma, and Sukapon - could show up. During E3 2018, Sukapon was confirmed as an Assist Trophy. This means that characters from Brawl's list are still showing up, two games later! With Sukapon confirmed, this leaves just two characters left - DeMille and Oguma! If they do more from the Brawl list than just Sukapon... then DeMille's got a very good chance of showing up in some capacity!

-While Tomato Adventure itself hasn't been referenced or mentioned by Nintendo much since its release, it got re-released on the Japanese Wii U Virtual Console in 2015!

-The company behind Tomato Adventure, AlphaDream, is owned by Nintendo, and they're still putting out games frequently today, though they're almost all Mario and Luigi games. Since DeMille is the protagonist of one of the company's few original game concepts, he could be added to thank AlphaDream for their hard work over the years!

-On the topic of AlphaDream, they've recently been remaking the Mario and Luigi games. If they ever decide to remake Tomato Adventure, or make a sequel (which seems possible, based on what I mentioned in the first point!), DeMille could be added to Smash to promote. Or it could go the other way around - DeMille gets added as a classic GBA character, and then based on how the fans like him, they remake his game following that.

It seems like a number of things are lining up, so I definitely think it's possible that he'll show up in some form, even if it's not playable!


-------


DeMille want: 100%

DeMille is my most-wanted character, so of course I wouldn't put anything besides 100%! I love his game, love his character, and I think he has some amazing potential for an awesome and unique moveset.

Here are some ideas I put together:

Spoiler: DeMille Moveset

Entrance

Drives onto the stage in his Snea-car, but the seat ejects with DeMille in it, landing him in his starting position while the car drives off screen. (This references the animation that plays when you fail the Snea-car game - can be seen in this video from 4:03 - 4:07!)

Ground Attacks

Neutral: Delivers two punches with gloves, and then deals an uppercut with an image of a dragon surrounding his fist, sending the opponent backwards diagonally. Each punch deals 2%, and the uppercut deals 5%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:51 - 0:58!)

Forward Tilt: Throws out his Gear Yoyo once, pulling it in quickly. Deals 8%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:00 - 0:03!)

Up Tilt: Throws his Gear Yoyo upwards, pulling it back quickly. Deals 8%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:00 - 0:03!)

Down Tilt: Kicks quickly, spinning around with each A press - similar to Lucas', but he stays closer to the ground. Deals 3% per hit. (Not based on anything in particular!)

Dash Attack: Dives forward, with arms outstretched. Works similarily to Pikachu's dash attack. Deals 10%. (Not based on anything in particular!)

Smash Attacks

Forward: Smashes down with Noisy Face, launching the opponent. Deals 20% uncharged, 25% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:27 - 0:31!)

Up: Puts his hands together and closes his eyes, and brings his head down slowly as he charges the attack. When the attack is released, he stands up straight and bows, releasing the Paper Crane above him, along with some flower petals that are only cosmetic. Deals 13% uncharged, 18% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:33 - 0:39!)

Down: A Pyramid appears on top of his hat, and he closes his eyes and moves his hands up and down as he charges the attack. When released, a triangle appears around him, damaging opponents within it, and then shatters, blasting everyone within it away. Deals 15% uncharged, 20% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:30 - 0:35!)

Aerial Attacks

Neutral: Spins around using his Tanooki Tail. Deals 4% if it it barely hits, or 10% if the opponent is close. (This move can be seen in this video!)

Up: Thrusts a Noisy Face upwards, slamming the opponent. Deals 15%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:27 - 0:31!)

Forward: Slams a Noisy Face forwards, slamming downwards. If it connects just right, it deals a Meteor Smash! Deals 10%. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:27 - 0:31!)

Back: Kicks backwards. Deals 10%. (Not based on anything in particular!)

Special Attacks

Neutral: When B is held, the Linear Glove appears on DeMille's hand, and begins charging. When released, DeMille shoots the Linear Glove off of his hand, shooting it quickly across the field. Deals 15% uncharged, and 25% charged. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:16 - 0:22!)

Side: Pulls out Chomper, and makes it bite the opponent. Deals the most damage if the opponent is at the tip, right where the mouth is. Deals 10%, or 17% at the tip. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:25 - 0:29!)

Up: DeMille will hop onto his hoverboard, and fly upwards while B is held. He can be moved left and right while riding the board. After a time, the board will stop going up, the rockets will turn off, and it will begin to fall. At any time during the move (including once it begins falling), DeMille can leap upwards and off the the board by pressing A, allowing for a little more height. Does not cause any damage usually, but if DeMille leaps off the board, it will explode once it hits the ground, dealing 5% to an opponent hit by it. (Based on his hoverboard from the game, which isn't an attack - can be seen in this video from 5:52 - 10:30!)

Down: DeMille will pull out Mr. Volcano, who will send a flaming boulder in front of DeMille. The boulder deals 20%, and players will take small amounts of damage if they touch Mr. Volcano. (This move can be seen in this video from 0:05 - 0:10!)

Grabs

Pummel: Headbutts the opponent. Deals 2% per hit.

Up Throw: Picks up the opponent, then uppercuts them, with an image of a dragon surrounding his fist. Deals 7%.

Down Throw: Pushes the opponent to the ground, and then immediately slams them with a Noisy Face. Deals 8%.

Forward Throw: Kicks the opponent forwards. Deals 6%.

Back Throw: Spins the opponent around, and then kicks them from behind. Deals 7%.

Miscellanious Attacks

Getting Up from a Fall: Spins around and kicks, and then hops up. Very similar to Ness and Lucas. Deals 5%.

Ledge Attack: Rolls up over the ledge and kicks downwards. Deals 5%.

Taunts

Up: Takes out a tomato, looks at it hesitantly, and then eats it. He gags, puts an arm over his stomach and covers his mouth, and leans forward, and then closes his eyes, shakes his head, and straightens back up. (This doesn't reference any specific scene or pose, but it references DeMille's dislike of tomatoes.)

Side: Turns to the screen, and then strikes the pose he does in the opening sequence. (The pose in question can be seen on the alternate costumes area of this post, but I'll put them here too for convenience. Here's that pose!)

Down: Closes his eyes, and in a panic, flails his arms and legs around. (This references his panicked animation from Tomato Adventure, which he does fairly often. Check it out at 2:05 in this video!)

Final Smash: Tomato Robot Mk. II

DeMille calls out, "Aresa!", and is sucked upwards by a beam of light. He appears inside a robot cockpit with Aresa - one of his party members from Tomato Adventure - where they high five, and then look through the window, where the battlefield is. A reticle appears, and you can aim it at an opponent similar to the Dragoon. Like the the Dragoon, everyone can continue to move while you aim. Pressing A will cause the robot to attack the selected spot, locking everything in place and dealing several hits with heart-shaped bullets. DeMille will then hop out of the cockpit and return to the battlefield, coming down in another beam of light. If you successfully target a player, it deals 75% to the target. (This is based on an Extreme Attack from Tomato Adventure, which you can see in this video!)

In addition, I also made a concept for a "difficulty modifier", based on a mechanic from his origin game, that lets you choose whether to sacrifice consistent damage for higher damaging sweet spots, or give you consistent, but lower damage everywhere on your attacks. In other words, you can modify how he fights on the fly! Here's the idea in more detail:

Spoiler: Difficulty Modification

DeMille's origin game, Tomato Adventure, is an turn-based RPG with a cool battle mechanic in that each and every attack is associated a unique minigame - completing the game rewards you with higher damage, while failing will give a far lower amount. One of them, for example, requires you to time an A press so your cursor stops within a certain range - another is as simple as mashing A to fill up a bar before time runs out. And there are a ton of them! Each character can equip 4 weapons to use as attacks, so you can pick the minigames you're best at!

But there's another mechanic along with that - you can freely modify the difficulty of each game, going from difficulty Lv 1 to Lv 7, and the higher the difficulty, the higher the damage if you complete it! Playing minigames for every attack wouldn't work in a fast-paced game like Smash, but I think the difficulty modification could be adapted to work really interestingly! My thinking is that one move - maybe his neutral special - would change the "difficulty" of his attacks between Lv 1 and Lv 7. At Lv 1, his attacks would do the same damage everywhere as long as it connects, but at Lv 7, all of his attacks are made weaker and do less knockback, but they all gain a sweet spot similar to Marth's tipper. Hitting with an attack's sweet spot deals far more damage than any attack at Lv 1, and does far more knockback!

It's entirely possible that if he joined the game, he'd come without this mechanic, but it would open up a lot of different ways to play him! Would you play it safe, keep his attacks at Lv 1, and rack up the damage over time? Or will you crank it up to Lv 7 from the beginning and try to hit the sweet spot for every move, netting early kills? Or maybe you'll rack up damage at Lv 1, and then set it to Lv 7 once you're ready to get the KO. It would definitely make DeMille very unique, and there's no mechanic quite like this in Smash!

And to give a quick look at how he might play, I made a few GIFs that showcase some of his abilties. Here they are! The moveset above contains a complete set for all of his moves.

Even if you're unfamiliar with the character, I think that he's got a lot of potential for a fun and unique moveset that no other character has done!

Thanks for reading! I realize he's probably a long shot, but hey, we've all got a dream character, right? If you're curious to learn more about him, the support thread is right here!


-----


Reimu chance: 5%

I'm not super familiar with her games, but Touhou is one of the most well-known bullet hell series, so it's not impossible. I know she has a decent following, and Touhou games are already on the Switch, so while I don't think it's likely, it's possible she could be a candidate for DLC if another ballot happens.


------


Reimu want: 5%
Touhou is popular, so I'd be happy for its fans! But I'm not personally familiar with the series, so I don't have any connection to its characters.

-----

My character's day has come, so I'm happy to vote for whoever. If anyone wants help getting a character voted up, let me know!

Speak of the devil, here you are. Great post as always! Here’s hoping we gain a few supporters today.

If you don’t know who to nominate, I’d appreciate it if you helped me out with the Chorus Kids.

 

[FamicomDisk]

Speak of the devil, here you are. Great post as always! Here’s hoping we gain a few supporters today.

If you don’t know who to nominate, I’d appreciate it if you helped me out with the Chorus Kids.

Thanks! Here's hoping!

I'm surprised the Chorus Kids haven't gone yet, honestly! Editing the nomination into the post!

 

[WaddleMatt]

Quad Abstain today,

Nominations: Rhythm Girl x5

 

[Pacack]

Demille
Chance: 1%
He just seems far too obscure. If Takamaru wasn't able to get past the Japan-exclusive thing, then neither can Demille.
Want: Abstain

Reimu
Chance: .5%
Not only is she far, far more well-known in Japan than over here, but she's third party. That alone makes her an incredibly unlikely addition.
Want: Abstain

Nominations: x5 Historical Character

 

[AirMac1]

Demille
Chance:20%
I never played Tomato Adventure, but it has a surprisingly large fanbase for an obscure Nintendo IP that only had a single game that was on the GBA and was only released in Japan.

Want:70%
I don’t know anything about him or her, but they are unique and obscure, and I love unique and obscure!

Reimu
Chance:5%
The only indie reps I could see are Octodad and Gunvolt. Octodad is a character that would draw in a lot of Steam gamers and DanTDM fans, and Gunvolt has his own anime for crying out loud! Sure I think Touhou does, but most people from the West never heard of Touhou. Sure you could say that about Fire Emblem before Melee, but at least they were owned by Nintendo, and Touhou is just a Japanese exclusive indie game. And for the record Steve is owned by Microsoft.

Want:0%
I don’t know anything about her apart from seeing her in one of Billybae10K
‘s rate their chances videos.

Noms:9-volt x5

 

[AirMac1]

FamicomDisk 9-volt is almost up to 100 noms! Can you please nominate him tomorrow?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Abstain on both. I've heard of Reimu and Touhou but know nothing about it other than its playstyle nor anything about the character aside from magic I guess, and I've never heard of Tomato Adventure.

Nominations:

Steve? x3
Gengar x2

 

[Jomosensual]

Double abstaining again today

Noms:
Joker x5

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Gonna do Demille now, and Reimu later

Demille

0% Chance

There was a GBA exclusive Nintendo character that had a chance, his name is Starfy. Starfy is the permanent assist trophy. If Demille can't get an assist, he is dead in the water. Tomato Adventure is something forgotten to time, and unlike Custom Robo or Starfy or especially Golden Sun, there are not fans pushing for it to be back.

0% Want

Honestly I have become a bitter person this speculation. I am gonna give out lower scores in general due to the end times. Simply put, its an obscure character that I have no connection to that lacks an interesting moveset. I would rather have Thwomp.

Nominating Sora Rerate x 5

Also I can't wait to rip my teeth into Merric soon. The fact you *&^$% nominated him is gonna be fun. Expect double zeros and an essay on why Thwomp, Bubsy, and every **** tier character we rated would be better.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Gonna do Demille now, and Reimu later

Demille

0% Chance

There was a GBA exclusive Nintendo character that had a chance, his name is Starfy. Starfy is the permanent assist trophy. If Demille can't get an assist, he is dead in the water. Tomato Adventure is something forgotten to time, and unlike Custom Robo or Starfy or especially Golden Sun, there are not fans pushing for it to be back.

0% Want

Honestly I have become a bitter person this speculation. I am gonna give out lower scores in general due to the end times. Simply put, its an obscure character that I have no connection to that lacks an interesting moveset. I would rather have Thwomp.

Nominating Sora Rerate x 5

Also I can't wait to rip my teeth into Merric soon. The fact you *&^$% nominated him is gonna be fun. Expect double zeros and an essay on why Thwomp, Bubsy, and every **** tier character we rated would be better.

Aw come on, check out FamicomDisk ‘s post, if there’s anything positive to be said about DeMille, is that he’d have an interesting moveset.

 

[Lasatar]

Abstain on Tomato Adventure. Never heard of it before.

Reimu:

Chance: 25%. Not super likely, but Touhou is easily the biggest "indie" in Japan, and Smash IS a Japanese series. Shovel Knight is an Assist Trophy, so it goes to show that it's still very possible for indies to get representation, and when you consider that we haven't yet had a playable character who doesn't come from a Japanese series (Diddy, K Rool, and Dark Samus weren't designed by a Japanese company, but they're still part of a series that originated in Japan), that boosts Reimu's chances miles ahead of what the other two big names; Shovel Knight and Shantae, were on.

I also think there's a chance that the lack of an announcement for the PS4 port of Antinomy of Common Flowers seems like ZUN's waiting to announce it alongside something else. Possibly a Switch release? Possibly even alongside a Reimu announcement for Smash? Who knows? Oh, and before you're all like "but there might not be a port at all", I say to you: ZUN has expressed interest in a console port for AoCF, just like there was for ULiL, and considering that the games are even on Steam now, there's no reason why he wouldn't go through with it. Plus, there's a suspicious empty slot in-between Koishi and Kasen on the character select screen, which would likely be filled by a port-exclusive character, just like Reisen in the PS4 port for ULiL.

Want: 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%. My most wanted character by far.

 

[Opossum]

Abstaining from all.

Nominating my boy Merric x5 to keep him on top.

I mean I have no delusions about his chance score that day, but here's hoping my write-up I'm planning can give him a decently high want score. Also hoping he doesn't get a double day with something that'd take too much attention off him lol.

 

[Kotor]

Demille

Chance: 0%
Want: 0%

From what I'm seeing, Demille comes from an obscure Japan-only GBA game. I just can't see this happen at all as a playable character. Only benefit Demille's game had that it was rereleased in Japan in the Wii U virtual console. That doesn't change the fact neither North America and Europe have received it. I did find that the Developers of Tomato Adventure were also behind the Mario & Luigi series to be a neat piece of trivia.

Reimu Hakurei

Chance: Abstain
Want: 50%

I'm not completely oblivious to Touhou although I've never touched any of its games. My introduction to it was Flandre Scarlet's theme called U.N. Owen was her? It's a catchy song.

Never prompted me to try out bullet hells, but I see Reimu and the other cast from time to time, usually profile pictures, and the occasional fanart. There's like over 200 characters from Touhou Project. But... she's considered an Indie character. So I'm gonna be that guy and say I'd rather take Reimu over Shantae. Despite how nonexistent the series is internationally, you cannot deny the impact Touhou Project has made in Japan, and Reimu's status as an gaming icon there.

Toon Zelda x5

 

[RileyXY1]

DeMille
Chance: 10%
His chances are low, but not that low because Sakurai has taken interest in him despite being Japan-only. That, and he suddenly got a new design for the AlphaDream website's recruitment page.

Want: 30%
He seems like he would have a unique moveset, but I'm not really interested in him.

Reimu
Chance: 2%
Touhou is a very niche series that has never been on a Nintendo console.

Want: 85%
Reimu would be a unique and interesting addition to the roster, given that the Bullet Hell genre is completely unrepresented in the series.

Nominate: Kat & Ana x5

 

[Opossum]

Also I can't wait to rip my teeth into Merric soon. The fact you *&^$% nominated him is gonna be fun. Expect double zeros and an essay on why Thwomp, Bubsy, and every **** tier character we rated would be better.

C'mon, man. No need to act like that. :/

 

[Artix]

Abstain on DeMille.

Reimu Hakurei

Chance: 0%
As much as I like Reimu to be in the game, I don't think she's gonna make it. Sure, Touhou may be super popular in Japan, but it's not really that well-known in the West. Besides, the series itself is way too niche and it never even had a Nintendo release at all. Kinda reminds me of a certain character from another super popular series in Japan that is also niche, but at least this character had Nintendo releases at one point.

Want: 90%
You know what, though? I really like supporting left field characters in Smash. Reimu getting in will be quite a surprise to everyone, maybe in the same level as Cloud back in Smash 4. Besides, Reimu herself had some moveset potential that could be implemented well enough in Smash.

Nominations:
Melemele Island Stage x5

 

[GoodGrief741]

DeMille
Chance: 10%
His chances are low, but not that low because Sakurai has taken interest in him despite being Japan-only. That, and he suddenly got a new design for the AlphaDream website's recruitment page.

Want: 30%
He seems like he would have a unique moveset, but I'm not really interested in him.

Reimu
Chance: 70%
Reimu is one of the characters implicated in the credible LaPelleDor leak, which got Simon, Richter, K. Rool, and Chrom correct. Other information this leak got correct include Dracula being a boss and the existence of the stage morph feature.

Want: 85%
Reimu would be a unique and interesting addition to the roster, given that the Bullet Hell genre is completely unrepresented in the series.

Nominate: Kat & Ana x5

You’re giving a 70% chance based solely on a text leak?

 

[TheCJBrine]

The LaPelleDor leak? That was confirmed fake when someone leaked those trolls' discord chat. Also, the original leak on that French site was stated to just be random characters by one of the admins on there, so the people behind the leak must've taken a screenshot of the page and edited it, or just took a screenshot after using inspect element.

 

[Sid-cada]

DeMille

Chance - 0.01% - A character from a game that wasn't localized? Typically Sakurai shies away from giving these characters the playable treatment. If someone as influential as Takamaru can't get in because of that, he has not a chance.

Want - 50% - Looks kinda cool, but I have no attachment to him. I don't really care.

Touhou is niche as **** and I don’t think she was ever in a Nintendo console.

Besides, the series itself is way too niche and it never even had a Nintendo release at all.

Technically not true?

While there have yet to be official Touhou games on the switch, as a doujin game the character is under more lax copyright laws than standard. As such, so long as certain guidelines are followed, you can create and make unofficial content without permission. As such a number of unofficial fan games Touhou games were released on the Switch.

Two games of note are Touhou Genso Wander, a game that was both localized and got an add on Nintendo's official Youtube, and Kobuto V Burst Battle, which while not localized became the second most downloaded Switch game in Japan when it launched, beaten only by Mario Odyssey.

Reimu Hakurei

Chance - 1% - Yes, she's both the face of the Doujin market and the Bullet Hell shooter. No, that isn't enough for me to consider her likely. Unless there was a reason to believe otherwise, I think Touhou on the Switch was a bit too late for the roster. That said, when have a flower named after you, you know that they are important.

Want - 70% - I like Touhou, but this is just so out there I can't give an accurate feeling. I'd feel happy overall, but I think the feeling of "What?" would overwhelm me.


Nominations

Slime X5

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Well then. I can't stand the fact that DeMille even got enough nominations to get rated. Expect double 0s for him and some close to strong language (don't know the banning policy).

DEMILLE

Probably the most obscure character I can imagine, didn't even appear when I searched his name. He comes from a game that sold **** poorly on the Game Boy advance, has the most minuscule (if even existent) following I can imagine, was almost immediately dropped after it's first game with no recurring representation, was only released in Japan and never in the West, and was absolutely unimportant in the whole history of video games/Nintendo even. And he was developed by a third party (still released by Nintendo). And the game looks utterly generic and uninteresting. And was literally mentioned a total of once by Sakurai back in the Brawl days. And he is too obscure and unimportant to even be considered as a trophy. And he would have to play his Gimmick cards to attack. And the game is being released in less than 50 days. And he isn't old enough to be considered historic, or even a classic. I gotta be fair though. It isn't impossible. After all, Demille appeared in a video game...

Chance: 2% 2.5%

I cannot stand this suggestion. This would be a **** addition to the roster, for Demille is just generally unimportant and unappealing when it comes to a new character. I am not convinced that Gimmicks will work into a moveset. The game sold terribly, simply put. There is practically no following for him, wasn't popular enough to be featured on the ballot, and each move set I see for him is lackluster and unconvincing...

Want: -7.4362% = 0% 2%

OKAY, my saltfest is over. I just was mad seeing him nominated at the last minute into the set. I knew I would be criticized for a bias against, so I did raise my chance score above what most other people did. Still, I really don't think that Demille would be added, and I am a very strong advocate against his inclusion. Sorry for anyone offended, probably not enough sleep. With that being said...

REIMU HAKUREI

Here is a character that really doesn't have a shot. Sure, Touhou is super popular in Japan, and she has a massive following. The problem, that following doesn't exactly translate in the form of a new character. Touhou, as I have seen, looks like a fun game, and it also seems to be the definitive bullet hell game of Japan. Still, there is no representation within Nintendo platforms (that I have seen), and there is no real support for her inclusion as a new Smash fighter. Of course, that could all change, but the roster for Smash is pretty defined by this point, and there is still no outcry or Nintendo representation for Reimu at this time...

Chance: 0%

Despite not playing any games, I cannot deny Reimu's popularity. I wouldn't mind seeing Touhou representation, and seeing a character from a bullet hell shoot em up would certainly bring a lot to the table and would offer seriously unexplored move set potential. There are many ways to go with her, and I'd be excited to see how Reimu is presented (if at all). If a fighter isn't really likely (or, to be honest, really wanted), then I just want to see Touhou represented. To be honest, I just want all big series represented as trophies at least, rather than fighters. Reimu falls kind of in this boat...

Want: 12.5%

Time to come up with an actually civilized debate for tomorrow then.

Noms: Quote 5x

 

[RileyXY1]

You’re giving a 70% chance based solely on a text leak?

I had the chance downgraded to 2%.

 

[aarchak]

DeMille

Chance: 0%
Never heard of this character, and I doubt most other people have either. They would be lucky to get a trophy at all, forget becoming a character. When we have over 300 characters, come back to me and MAYBE I'll give it a 0.5%.
Want: ABSTAIN
This is my first of hearing of this character. I don't know anything about them except the name.

Reimu Hakurei

Chance: 0%
In Japan she's pretty well-known, but internationally, she's known only to the most hardcore of the anime community. Since the devs are looking to sell this internationally, they would strike her very quickly. We might get a song or two, though.
Want: 40%
She has my curiosity, but not yet my attention. However, Touhou music is legendary, and I would love to see some music come with her if she got in.

Nominations
Character alternate costume DLC x5

 

[RealPokeFan11]

DEMILLE

Probably the most obscure character I can imagine, didn't even appear when I searched his name. He comes from a game that....

...involves a rabbit trying to exterminate the entire alien tomato species that is planning to invade our planet and mutate everyone into Tomatoheads. (sorry i had to)
Oh god it's already starting!

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

...involves a rabbit trying to exterminate the entire alien tomato species that is planning to invade our planet and mutate everyone into Tomatoheads. (sorry i had to)
Oh god it's already starting!

I had to refresh the page, so I saved what I already had into a new post, and edited the rest of my rating after I refreshed. The rating is done now.

I had the chance downgraded to 2%.

Still, you need at least 2 sentences for chance and want if you want your scores counted.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

I had to refresh the page, so I saved what I already had into a new post, and edited the rest of my rating after I refreshed. The rating is done now.

Got it. I just decided to make my own continuation for fun

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

DeMille want: 0% (1-10*)

FamicomDisk did a fantastic job updating his support thread with animated moves. I like the idea of a fighter who primarily fights with a yo-yo(s), but the rest of his moves, while interesting, aren't anything I'm dying to use in Smash, and the story of the game itself still doesn't compel me to play it, so I don't expect I'll ever have an attachment to this character.

Reimu Hakurei want: 5% (15-10*)

I don't have any special attachment to this character in particular, and I have only played one Touhou (fan)game IIRC. However, I love bullet hells. I can't really justify to myself spending much time on them, but they're ****in great. I'm interested to see bullet hell mechanics integrated into a Smash moveset (it seems like that Touhou Smash fighting game linked in Reimu's support thread probably won't happen, otherwise this score might be lower). I also like the shrine maiden aesthetic.

Nominations:

Merric x5

* Indicates percentage penalty for potentially taking a slot from most wanted characters

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well then. I can't stand the fact that DeMille even got enough nominations to get rated. Expect double 0s for him and some close to strong language (don't know the banning policy).

DEMILLE

Probably the most obscure character I can imagine, didn't even appear when I searched his name. He comes from a game that sold **** poorly on the Game Boy advance, has the most minuscule (if even existent) following I can imagine, was almost immediately dropped after it's first game with no recurring representation, received generally fair to low reviews (if we're being honest) and was absolutely unimportant in the whole history of video games/Nintendo even. And he was developed by a third party (still released by Nintendo). And the game looks utterly generic and uninteresting. And was literally mentioned a total of once by Sakurai back in the Brawl days. And he is too obscure and unimportant to even be considered as a trophy. And he would have to play his Gimmick cards to attack. And the game is being released in less than 50 days. And he isn't old enough to be considered historic, or even a classic. I gotta be fair though. It isn't impossible. After all, Demille appeared in a video game...

Chance: 2%

I cannot stand this suggestion. This would be a **** addition to the roster, for Demille is just generally unimportant and unappealing when it comes to a new character. I am not convinced that Gimmicks will work into a moveset. The game sold terribly, simply put. There is practically no following for him, wasn't popular enough to be featured on the ballot, and each move set I see for him is lackluster and unconvincing...

Want: -7.4362% = 0%

OKAY, my saltfest is over. I just was mad seeing him nominated at the last minute into the set. I knew I would be criticized for a bias against, so I did raise my chance score above what most other people did. Still, I really don't think that Demille would be added, and I am a very strong advocate against his inclusion. Sorry for anyone offended, probably not enough sleep. With that being said...

REIMU HAKUREI

Here is a character that really doesn't have a shot. Sure, Touhou is super popular in Japan, and she has a massive following. The problem, that following doesn't exactly translate in the form of a new character. Touhou, as I have seen, looks like a fun game, and it also seems to be the definitive bullet hell game of Japan. Still, there is no representation within Nintendo platforms (that I have seen), and there is no real support for her inclusion as a new Smash fighter. Of course, that could all change, but the roster for Smash is pretty defined by this point, and there is still no outcry or Nintendo representation for Reimu at this time...

Chance: 0%

Despite not playing any games, I cannot deny Reimu's popularity. I wouldn't mind seeing Touhou representation, and seeing a character from a bullet hell shoot em up would certainly bring a lot to the table and would offer seriously unexplored move set potential. There are many ways to go with her, and I'd be excited to see how Reimu is presented (if at all). If a fighter isn't really likely (or, to be honest, really wanted), then I just want to see Touhou represented. To be honest, I just want all big series represented as trophies at least, rather than fighters. Reimu falls kind of in this boat...

Want: 10%

Time to come up with a civilized debate for tomorrow then.

Noms: Quote 5x

Welp, might as well give some counterpoints, seeing how I nominated DeMille.

- What are your claims on the games’ poor sales and reception based on? From what I can find, the game got decent to good reviews, and while I can’t find any data on sales, it must have done at least enough to merit a rerelease on the Wii U Virtual Console.

- You’d be surprised by how big the following is for such an obscure character! There are tons of fan content. We have the fortune of the game having been translated in an LP by Clyde Mandelin (a professional translator and the guy behind the fan translation of Mother 3).

- AlphaDream is almost exclusively a Nintendo developer, they’re no more of a third party than Game Freak.

- This is of course subjective, but I think Tomato Adventure is anything but generic. Gameplay-wise it invented the style of Mario & Luigi, and story-wise it’s about a rabbit living in a bus who is an outcast because he dislikes tomatoes.

- To be fair, getting mentioned once by Sakurai is still a lot more than many other characters have ever gotten.

 

[Pizza Robo]

DeMille
Chance: 10%
Has only 1 game in Japan
Want: 70%
Demille has a Interesting Moveset :D

Reimu
Chance: 50%
Very popular in Japan
Want: 50%
Has a cool moveset plus a Rep for Bullet Hell Games

Cody Travers(Final Fight/Street Fighter) x3
Yokai Watch as Assist Trophy/Pokeball Summoning Item x2

 

[GoodGrief741]

DeMille
Chance: 10%
Has only 1 game in Japan
Want: 70%
Demille has a Interesting Moveset :D

Reimu
Chance: 50%
Very popular in Japan
Want: 50%
Has a cool moveset plus a Rep for Bullet Hell Games

Cody Travers(Final Fight/Street Fighter) x3
Yokai Watch as Assist Trophy/Pokeball Summoning Item x2

You might wanna give more reasoning behind those scores, otherwise they’re not getting counted.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Welp, might as well give some counterpoints, seeing how I nominated DeMille.

- What are your claims on the games’ poor sales and reception based on? From what I can find, the game got decent to good reviews, and while I can’t find any data on sales, it must have done at least enough to merit a rerelease on the Wii U Virtual Console.

- You’d be surprised by how big the following is for such an obscure character! There are tons of fan content. We have the fortune of the game having been translated in an LP by Clyde Mandelin (a professional translator and the guy behind the fan translation of Mother 3).

- AlphaDream is almost exclusively a Nintendo developer, they’re no more of a third party than Game Freak.

- This is of course subjective, but I think Tomato Adventure is anything but generic. Gameplay-wise it invented the style of Mario & Luigi, and story-wise it’s about a rabbit living in a bus who is an outcast because he dislikes tomatoes.

- To be fair, getting mentioned once by Sakurai is still a lot more than many other characters have ever gotten.

I do appreciate the response, and I did expect you to provide input, given you were who I was referring to when I talked about Demille narrowly making the cut.

I will admit, I was very much biased against Demille going into the review, but after doing research a second time only focusing on both the positive and negatives, I can rethink some of my criticisms of Demille. I very much doubt that I'll change any ratings though. 2% and 0% still remain rather accurate in my opinion.


"What are your claims on the games’ poor sales and reception based on? From what I can find, the game got decent to good reviews, and while I can’t find any data on sales, it must have done at least enough to merit a rerelease on the Wii U Virtual Console."

I did actually see that the game did not sell very well, which is why it was never released overseas. Still, Nintendo likened to AlphaDream's work and they were authorized to create the Mario & Luigi games (I didn't know Tomato Adventure and M&L was made by the same developer), which sold incredibly well, and Tomato Adventure was abandoned in favor of full throttle into the M&L series and development of new sequels. You are correct though; I didn't want to think that Tomato Adventure got good reviews, even though they did as I found out.

"You’d be surprised by how big the following is for such an obscure character! There are tons of fan content. We have the fortune of the game having been translated in an LP by Clyde Mandelin (a professional translator and the guy behind the fan translation of Mother 3)."

I'd disagree with the statement that their are "tons" of fan content. There may be some, I will not argue with that. But saying that there is tons implies that Tomato Adventure has an incredibly active fanbase with constant support. I go back to the fact that I can't even search for "Demille" and find the character from Tomato Adventure. Congrats with the localization though!

"AlphaDream is almost exclusively a Nintendo developer, they’re no more of a third party than Game Freak."

Quote from nintendo.wikia: "AlphaDream Corporation is an independent third party developer from Japan. So far, it has been developing handheld games for Nintendo ever since 2002. They are best known for their comedy RPG series Mario & Luigi. " Once again, I wish I would have known about M&L and its connection to Tomato Adventure, and I would have totally cut Demille more slack.
Back to the point though. Here is the same opening for Game Freak: "Game Freak (1989 - Present) is a Japanese video game developer. They are a second party developer for Nintendo most well known for its development on the Pokémon series of games. " My point is, AlphaDream is not a Nintendo developer. Sure, they were licensed to make M&L, but that doesn't mean that their ultimately bonded with the company. They could produce a mobile game right now if they really wanted to independently. It wouldn't be beneficial to their company, but they could.

"This is of course subjective, but I think Tomato Adventure is anything but generic. Gameplay-wise it invented the style of Mario & Luigi, and story-wise it’s about a rabbit living in a bus who is an outcast because he dislikes tomatoes."

Rescue the maiden of the kingdom from the greedy power-hungry dude wrecking havoc on a kingdom while you, the protagonist hero, fight all the baddies the final boss sends your way.
Except there's a tomato gun and boom, ketchup.
To be fair, the plot points are very unique. The plot direction as a whole has been completed countless times before though.

"To be fair, getting mentioned once by Sakurai is still a lot more than many other characters have ever gotten"

Very true. It's simply the fact that he was mostly speculated during the Brawl days was what I was trying to get at there. I don't see much Smashboards Demille support nowadays. That was my main point whenever I discussed relevancy and popularity.

I'll edit my OP rating, thank you for the discussion GoodGrief741

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

...involves a rabbit trying to exterminate the entire alien tomato species that is planning to invade our planet and mutate everyone into Tomatoheads. (sorry i had to)
Oh god it's already starting!

Looks like the Pringles guy.

 

[FancySmash]

So, I was gonna abstain on Demille, but I realized that if I did that for every character that was Japanese only, it'd kinda defeat the purpose of rate their chance, so...

Demille

Chance: 1%
He... did indeed originate from a video game, that I cannot deny. However, said game was Japanese only. This is important because... Takamaru was Japanese only. If Takamaru was skipped over for that reason, what chance does Demille have? I could also pull the "his game didn't sell well" card (mainly assumed since it never made it overseas), but not selling well isn't an indicator of quality, so that can really go either way. While his games do have history with the Mario & Luigi game, we have Mario and Luigi in the game already.

Want: 0%
Let me start off by saying, kudos to those who nominated this character, as well as making movesets. However, that said, for such an obscure character, I don't think Smash Ultimate is the best game to add such a character. Considering we haven't seen the usual WTF character, it's debatable whether or not we'll get one.

Reimu

Chance: 1%
Reimu's chance hindrance is different from Demille's. She's certainly not obscure... well, maybe a little bit outside Japan, but she does come from quite the popular series. However, Reimu's history with Nintendo is... close to none. Even Cloud, whose Nintendo history is also sparse, can make his argument that his series has ties to the company. Plus, her popularity in Japan might not amount to much when there are other 1st party characters from Nintendo that also have said popularity.

Want: Abstain
The difference why I abstain here is because I assume that while her series is more popular in Japan, I have a slightly better chance to experience her game, versus a one off game that only released in Japan. While I personally don't like the idea of her being in the game, since she has no Nintendo history, I have no exposure, but I could have the chance to experience her games. Thus, abstain... I hope I worded this well enough.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I do appreciate the response, and I did expect you to provide input, given you were who I was referring to when I talked about Demille narrowly making the cut.

I will admit, I was very much biased against Demille going into the review, but after doing research a second time only focusing on both the positive and negatives, I can rethink some of my criticisms of Demille. I very much doubt that I'll change any ratings though. 2% and 0% still remain rather accurate in my opinion.


"What are your claims on the games’ poor sales and reception based on? From what I can find, the game got decent to good reviews, and while I can’t find any data on sales, it must have done at least enough to merit a rerelease on the Wii U Virtual Console."

I did actually see that the game did not sell very well, which is why it was never released overseas. Still, Nintendo likened to AlphaDream's work and they were authorized to create the Mario & Luigi games (I didn't know Tomato Adventure and M&L was made by the same developer), which sold incredibly well, and Tomato Adventure was abandoned in favor of full throttle into the M&L series and development of new sequels. You are correct though; I didn't want to think that Tomato Adventure got good reviews, even though they did as I found out.

"You’d be surprised by how big the following is for such an obscure character! There are tons of fan content. We have the fortune of the game having been translated in an LP by Clyde Mandelin (a professional translator and the guy behind the fan translation of Mother 3)."

I'd disagree with the statement that their are "tons" of fan content. There may be some, I will not argue with that. But saying that there is tons implies that Tomato Adventure has an incredibly active fanbase with constant support. I go back to the fact that I can't even search for "Demille" and find the character from Tomato Adventure. Congrats with the localization though!

"AlphaDream is almost exclusively a Nintendo developer, they’re no more of a third party than Game Freak."

Quote from nintendo.wikia: "AlphaDream Corporation is an independent third party developer from Japan. So far, it has been developing handheld games for Nintendo ever since 2002. They are best known for their comedy RPG series Mario & Luigi. " Once again, I wish I would have known about M&L and its connection to Tomato Adventure, and I would have totally cut Demille more slack.
Back to the point though. Here is the same opening for Game Freak: "Game Freak (1989 - Present) is a Japanese video game developer. They are a second party developer for Nintendo most well known for its development on the Pokémon series of games. " My point is, AlphaDream is not a Nintendo developer. Sure, they were licensed to make M&L, but that doesn't mean that their ultimately bonded with the company. They could produce a mobile game right now if they really wanted to independently. It wouldn't be beneficial to their company, but they could.

"This is of course subjective, but I think Tomato Adventure is anything but generic. Gameplay-wise it invented the style of Mario & Luigi, and story-wise it’s about a rabbit living in a bus who is an outcast because he dislikes tomatoes."

Rescue the maiden of the kingdom from the greedy power-hungry dude wrecking havoc on a kingdom while you, the protagonist hero, fight all the baddies the final boss sends your way.
Except there's a tomato gun and boom, ketchup.
To be fair, the plot points are very unique. The plot direction as a whole has been completed countless times before though.

"To be fair, getting mentioned once by Sakurai is still a lot more than many other characters have ever gotten"

Very true. It's simply the fact that he was mostly speculated during the Brawl days was what I was trying to get at there. I don't see much Smashboards Demille support nowadays. That was my main point whenever I discussed relevancy and popularity.

I'll edit my OP rating, thank you for the discussion GoodGrief741

Do you have a source on the game’s poor sales? Not that I doubt it, but any info I can get on Tomato Adventure is a net gain.

Yeah, maybe tons isn’t the right term. Relatively speaking it’s not bad though, for a game so obscure.

You might not want to use nintendo.wikia as a source. Second party is not an actual legal term, it’s just what fans call franchises and developers that are Nintendo exclusive despite not being developed in-house. Nintendo doesn’t own neither AlphaDream nor Game Freak. In fact, Game Freak has self-published games for PC and smartphones twice in the last five years, has made a game for PS4, Xbox One and PC published by Sega in 2015, and their upcoming game Town will also be self-published and thus not owned by Nintendo. In contrast, AlphaDream has not done anything independently of Nintendo since 2008.

 

[DjinnandTonic]

DeMille:
Chance: 1%
As a huge JRPG nerd, Mario+Luigi RPG fan, and someone who has played a ton of obscure Japanese-only RPGs, lemme tell ya that this game is one of the most obscure bits of obscura to ever obscure its way to publication. I had heard of it in passing in relation to M+L and AlphaDream, but never once have I heard another human being mention its existence until today. That's a level of obscurity that far outstrips just about everything else I've seen rated in this topic and that's a huuuuuge hit to its chances to me, someone who absolutely should have had the chance to hear more about it (besides the name of the game) before today.

Want: 20%
That said, FamicomDisk's excellent info-post sold me on the idea of his really cool moveset potential. I still don't have any particular attachment to the character and I would feel kinda bad if he got in over my favorites, but I can't deny that he'd be a super-fun character if he got in alongside them! Great writeup!

It actually really makes me want to see AlphaDream try their hand at another JRPG, but with a more serious tone. The minigame-style/timed-hits mechanic is absolutely a blast in all of their games and I think that would bring some success to a Nintendo RPG with a more serious story/characters too. Basically, I want an AlphaDream-made Golden Sun, Xenoblade, or Fire Emblem (or even Zelda RPG!?). And it's all FamicomDisk's fault.

Nomnomnomnom: Concept: Continually-released Alternate Cosmetic Costume Options for Characters via DLC