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Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Edition! Day 672: Five Most Likely First and Third Parties for Smash 6, and Final Goodbyes

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,083
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Abstaining on Layton due to lack of familiarity.

Hatsune Miku video game

Chance: 30% Minecraft has stood the test of time and proved it was more than a trend, having even the biggest names of the industry try to cash in on it's success by putting in crafting mechanics in damn near every game since. Being owned by MS clearly isn't an issue as Minecraft was what made Banjo possible in the first place. Oh, and it's literally the best selling game of all time and never lost it's luster despite the reputation given by grumpy ass old ****s who insist that every game that's popular with kids is absolute garbage.

Want: 90% Steve would work very well, I never owned Minecraft but I highly respect the legacy and see how you could make a crafting character work. Only issue is that I struggle to see Master Chief happening if Steve gets in.


Nominations: SMT rep x 10
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Oh, by the way, today's a double nominations day, for those of you who need just a little extra push to get your characters to 50 noms.

This reminds me of a puzzle

Chance: 50%
Nothing's really changed for Layton, he either happens or he doesn't. He's iconic, but not from a huge franchise. Successful, yet always close to Nintendo. Distinctly Japanese yet with worldwide appeal. And Level-5 is one of those developers with nothing in Smash that you can totally see getting the nod at one point.

Want: 100%
I love the Layton games, the atmosphere, the mystery, the puzzles. Such charming games, I'd love to see the puzzle professor joining the fray.

Oh yeah that thing

Want: 0%
You all know the drill. I think Steve would look terrible. I think his moveset would be overly gimmicky. And I think Minecraft's simply an okay game that got huge due to luck and its impact is overstated. Keep it as far away from Smash as possible.

Noms: ****ing Tidus x10

Rex prediction: 67.91%
Waluigi prediction: 7.84%
 

fogbadge

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
21,073
Location
Scotland
what an pair to put together

a true gentleman
chances: 50% i can believe it could happen. layton had a huge impact and created many fans across his series and that is the sort of criteria that can get a character into smash. i can believe nintendo would suggest him, i can believe level-5 would be ok with it, really i think its all down to sakurai. sakurai and his selective imagination and his constantly shifting reasons for inclusion. so even though i can believe it could happen im not confident that it will happen.
want: 100% by far one of my most wanted 3rd parties. ive been a fan of the series from pretty much as long as theyve been out over here and i will be for as long as it keeps going. it just boils down to hes a character i love so id love to have him in smash, plain and simple.

abstain on steve i just feel my lack of interest in minecraft will prevent me from being fair.

nominate nate adams x10
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,518
Location
Drenthe, NL
Leader of the tophat clan
Chance: 20%
Level 5 is one of the few major Japanese dev with strong Nintendo ties that does not have representation yet and Professor Layton
is pretty much their biggest series. He'd also appeal to the Smash demographic way more than Jibanyan could. Moveset might not be so obvious however and I wouldn't call the series mainstream. To my knowledge, another game isn't happening soon. Still, I'd say Layton has a fair shot.

Want: 10%
I do have the slight interest to try this franchise out. Not something I'm actively hunting for but will get it if I were to come across it, the first game atleast.
While the connection isn't yet there, I would accept Layton in Smash.

Bob
Chance: 25%
I'd say he's next in line more than Master Chief is. While we all know how huge Minecraft is and how much Sakurai likes it, I wouldn't say that fact guarantees him a spot on the roster. He'd likely be in by now if that were the case. There's also a certain doubt I have about them double dipping with Microsoft with the DLC tho what do I know?

Want: Abstaining


Rex: 69.15%
Waluigi: 22.88%
Vi (Bug Fables) x20
 

Curious Villager

Puzzles...
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
11,751
Location
London
Layton

Chance 50%

This somehow ended up being a huge wall of text, so I guess I'll just put it under a spoiler tag... feel free to read through it if you want though, no game spoilers or anything.
Level-5's a company that has had a pretty extensive history with Nintendo over the years, with Nintendo often supporting them and their games as Layton and Inazuma Eleven being featured (and still updated to this day) on the Nintendo characters hub on the official NoE website and Yo-Kai Watch in NoA, Reggie and Bill being involved with a Yo-Kai Watch commercial, Level-5 receiving two puzzle swap panels for Mii Plaza, Nintendo hiring Layton's Japanese voice actor to do the Switch's first Japanese commercials, Nintendo even went out of their way to develop a whole side game for them with Professor Layton's London Life with the developer Brownie Brown/1-up studio (The guys behind the likes of Mother 3 and Ring Fit Adventure).

So the fact that we still have yet to see anything owned from Level-5 (Be it a spirit event, mii costumes or a playable character) is at the very least, quite curious, Especially if Nintendo really is the one choosing all the DLC according to Sakurai. (Closest thing we have in terms of Level-5 related content is :ulthero2: but they don't own the character, nor are they credited anywhere for his inclusion)

As for the Layton franchise, the series was Level-5's first big success story as well as the first franchise Level-5 self published, Hino even went on to state that the Layton series was his most favourite franchise they made due to this.
The series went on to sell over 17 million copies worldwide as well as being the second best selling third party franchise on the Nintendo DS, mainly beaten out by Dragon Quest IX (Which ironically was also developed by Level-5) It's also Level-5's most popular franchise to reach a global audience, this prompted them to support the series by ensuring more global game releases as well as global events like the world puzzle solving event as well as the art contest they did just last month to celebrate the HD rerelease of Unwound/Lost Future.

The series is also highly popular in Europe and with female players in particular, so the series is a pretty solid choice too if that's a market Nintendo or Sakurai wish to tap into for at least one of their fighters pass characters.

As for Layton himself, he hails from a puzzle adventure series and brings in a variety of different idea's to the table, which I'm sure Sakurai can go to town and be creative with. They can make use of his makeshift gadgets such as the slot machine gun, town catapult and home glider, he can fight more traditionally through fencing, though if a rapier is a bit too vanilla for you, he can also use a lead pipe instead. This is also not mentioning the various puzzles and animal buddies such as the parrot and toy car he can use too. So in terms of moveset, there's quite a lot of breathing room to work with.

For a special gimmick, they could probably use the hint system and do something like Banjo's Wonder Wing, except instead of one powerful move, Layton could perhaps receive some temporary buffs, the first three consume one hint coin each and grant Layton minor buffs, the last one being a super hint and thus consumes two hint coins would give him a much stronger buff to temporarily fight along with it, however, much like Banjo's Wonder Wing, Layton's only limited on using them four times per stock. This could emulate the hint system with the games where Layton is also limited to using them 4 times per puzzle.
All in all, he'll either happen or he wont, or Nintendo/Sakurai may potentially opt to go for a different Level-5 character like Jibanyan or the protag from Ni No Kuni instead, assuming Level-5 gets a character...
I'd expect them to at least get something they own to show up sooner or later though, be it a spirit event, mii costume or playable fighter...

Want 100%

Layton along with Phoenix are pretty much my two most wanted characters for Smash Ultimate, so i'd be very ecstatic to see him finally show up, or at least be acknowledged in some capacity.

Abstaining from Steve

Noms: SMT rep x10
 
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Simnm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
295
Oh, by the way, today's a double nominations day, for those of you who need just a little extra push to get your characters to 50 noms.

This reminds me of a puzzle

Chance: 50%
Nothing's really changed for Layton, he either happens or he doesn't. He's iconic, but not from a huge franchise. Successful, yet always close to Nintendo. Distinctly Japanese yet with worldwide appeal. And Level-5 is one of those developers with nothing in Smash that you can totally see getting the nod at one point.

Want: 100%
I love the Layton games, the atmosphere, the mystery, the puzzles. Such charming games, I'd love to see the puzzle professor joining the fray.

Oh yeah that thing

Want: 0%
You all know the drill. I think Steve would look terrible. I think his moveset would be overly gimmicky. And I think Minecraft's simply an okay game that got huge due to luck and its impact is overstated. Keep it as far away from Smash as possible.

Noms: ****ing Tidus x10

Rex prediction: 67.91%
Waluigi prediction: 7.84%
Mimecraft influenced botw how is it that its impact is overstated?
 

Blankiturayman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
459
Professor Layton
Chance: 25%
Level-5 has been with Nintendo for years. They've been a big part of their handhelds for a long while. I'm actually surprised that they have no content whatsoever in Smash already, I could see something, at the very least a small spirit event, happening down the line. Of course, out of all of Level-5's IPs to be chosen, I'd say Layton is the highest. I'm just not sure whether or not they went to that for a character. He's known, sure, but he's not from a huge franchise. Pretty much only time will tell.
Want: 45%
From what I've seen of him I'd like him, alongside Phoenix Wright he's one of these "unconventional" characters I'd like. His design is pretty charming. The only real reason this isn't higher is because I haven't played many games of the series, though I do mean to play more.

Steve
Chance: 15%
We all know this is a huge game. Big popularity, big seller, if Nintendo decided they wanted him it'd make sense. There's a couple things I'm uncertain of, for one, I don't know if Nintendo would double dip on Microsoft characters. I'm sure Microsoft themselves would be easy to deal with, that's probably not a deal breaker. But Nintendo might feel just having B&K is enough. That's a guess on my end though, if he or something from the game eventually showed up it'd make sense. Another thing is that Steve isn't Microsoft's only choice; he'd be competing with Master Chief should they go that route. And that's quite the steep hill to climb. Though, who knows, it certainly isn't impossible.
Want: 0%
No thanks. I've tried the game many times over the years it's been around. I never could get into it. I also just don't like this guy's design. If it happens though, it happens. Good for his fans, but this is my personal rating.

Nominations
Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x10 (This'd be the double nominations, right?)

Predictions
Rex: 55%
Waluigi: 30%
 
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BowserKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
1,843
Location
winnipeg
Layton

Chance: 20%. He has a decent of showing up, and I’m sure he is more likely then Jinbanyan, but then again, we have been surprised before. Other then that, he also has a decent chance for the next game.

Want: 52%. We would be a decent surprise and as long as he is fun to play as, then it’s fine by me. Overall, he would be a decent for Smash Bros.

Steve

Chance: 25%. Banjo and Kazooie got in before, so that appeared to brought him down a bit. But given how popular Minecraft is, Steve still has a thing going for him. Also given that Minecraft is on multiple Nintendo Devices, it could help Steve out.

Want: 100%. He is my most wanted Third Party fighter by far and my third most wanted as well. He would totally be fun to play as and he has lots of moveset potential. From Sword to Pickaxe to Potions to Fishing Rod to Tamed Wolves to TNT, Steve has a load of deadly moves. And I see he joins in, his franchise has lots of potential to be in this game. Overall, Steve would be a very great choice for a Smash Bros rep.

Prediction: Rex (20%) and Waluigi (15%)

Noms: 5 for Echo: Olimar
 

Simnm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
295
Professor Layton
Chance: 25%
Level-5 has been with Nintendo for years. They've been a big part of their handhelds for a long while. I'm actually surprised that they have no content whatsoever in Smash already, I could see something, at the very least a small spirit event, happening down the line. Of course, out of all of Level-5's IPs to be chosen, I'd say Layton is the highest. I'm just not sure whether or not they went to that for a character. He's known, sure, but he's not from a huge franchise. Pretty much only time will tell.
Want: 45%
From what I've seen of him I'd like him, alongside Phoenix Wright he's one of these "unconventional" characters I'd like. His design is pretty charming. The only real reason this isn't higher is because I haven't played many games of the series, though I do mean to play more.

Steve
Chance: 15%
We all know this is a huge game. Big popularity, big seller, if Nintendo decided they wanted him it'd make sense. There's a couple things I'm uncertain of, for one, I don't know if Nintendo would double dip on Microsoft characters. I'm sure Microsoft themselves would be easy to deal with, that's probably not a deal breaker. But Nintendo might feel just having B&K is enough. That's a guess on my end though, if he or something from the game eventually showed up it'd make sense. Another thing is that Steve isn't Microsoft's only choice; he'd be competing with Master Chief should they go that route. And that's quite the steep hill to climb. Though, who knows, it certainly isn't impossible.
Want: 0%
No thanks. I've tried the game many times over the years it's been around. I never could get into it. I also just don't like this guy's design. If it happens though, it happens. Good for his fans, but this is my personal rating.

Nominations
Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x10 (This'd be the double nominations, right?)

Predictions
Rex: 55%
Waluigi: 30%
Minecraft is one of the factors responsible for getting banjo into smash i heavily doubt that masterchief poses a threat to steves chances
 
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zipzapsparkle

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
325
Layton
Chance: 25%
want: 50%

I’m a bit surprised they haven’t added him because his series has been very loyal to Nintendo. There’s just no prediction when it comes to 3rd parties. They could easily put series that are exclusively or very Nintendo related (Megaman, Bayo, Banjo) or put someone that has nothing to do with Nintendo (Cloud, Joker). That said I think he would make a lot of sense.

Steve
Chance: 35%
want: 50%

Minecraft is a phenomenon so I would not be shocked if Steve made it into Smash. It seems like the type of character that would get a lot of headlines or break the internet, sort of like Sans did.
 
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Lyncario

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
926
Location
Hell
Layton
Chances: 25%
Layton is the likelier Level 5 character for Smash over Jibanyan in my opinion, due to how having more legacy and also being a very succesfull series since the DS era, especialy in Europe. Layton also has fan request since Brawl from what I know, where he was seen positively, especizly alongside Phœnix Wright, even before the crossover, in fact the crossover made them even mire associated with each others. He does have competition with mainly Jibanyan, but I can see Layton hapening over him.
Want: 75%
I don't like Layton and his series as much as I like Phienix Wright, but I still think that he would be pretty cool to have in Smash. After all, Proffesor Layton is a great series, and a stage based on it would be amazing. The moveset could also be very creative, even if a big part of it would be based on Layton being a fencer. Layton being a "generic anime swordman" is also a very funny though.

Steve
chance: 30%
Minecraft is the biggest game on the entire planet, even in Japan, Microsoft is friend with Nintendo, Minecraft Switch allowed Banjo to join in the first place. Really the only thing goin against Steve is that he's western, but it shouldn't hold him back by much. Steve was also very requested since the start of Ultimate, so he also has that going for him. Truly, I see Steve as the most likely second Microsoft rep by far, and the second most likely western rep behind only Crash, and even then not by that much.
Want: 85%
I like Mknecraft, it's a very fun game to play, weither I'm building, exploring, or fighting monsters. Also a Minecraft stage would be amazing. And Minecraft is also a big part of my childood, or rather watching Youtubers play it, as a 2001 kid. So yeah, Steve would be cool for me.

Nominations: SMT rep x5

Predictions:
Waliigi: 41.6%
Rex: 38.9%
 

jamesster445

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
1,136
Steve
Chance: 50%
Want: 50%

Yeah why not. Best selling game of all time. The Ultimate indie Cinderella story. Opened the door to get Banjo in Smash. So yeah why not? I have no real love for the series but I wouldnt be mad about the inclusion.

Layton
I'll abstain on this one. I'm not a Layton fan by any means but I do think hes the best option for a Level 5 rep.

Nominations: Boss Rush mode x5
 

AmphabulouSnake

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
443
Layton
Chances : 40%
Level 5 is one of the few japanese companies that somehow still doesn't have any content in Smash whatsoever despite having VERY close ties to Nintendo.
Needless to say Level 5's biggest mascot is Professor Layton, and while Jibanyan has been a close second for a while Yokai Watch has been falling down these past few years (not that Layton has gotten much either apart from the ports on Smartphone...)
Not only that but the series overall has done extremely well (for a puzzle/visual novel game) Worldwide, notably in Japan and Europe, seemingly Level 5's target demographic at this point.
Adding Layton in Smash could also potentially bring in some more casual gamers, given that the series was most popular on the DS with its first three iconic games.
However, while I think (and sure hope) Layton has a good shot to appear in the second Fighters Pass, Nintendo might want to priorities other bigger game companies for extra fighters (looking at Square and Capcom) or even more first party characters, not to mention Level 5 seems to be in trouble financially these days with games stuck in development hell and low sales (which in turn would make Layton's inclusion a benefit for the company really I mean look at SNK for crying out loud)
The more we move forward with dlc, the less confident I become, and with how many other candidates there are for DLC and how few spot are left he's become less likely in my heart.
40% is the most I can give now, but it could still be 50/50.
Want : 100%
Layton has been my favorite video game character since my childhood along with Spyro, and he's even inspired me to become an archeologist.
Ever since I was introduced to Smash bros, Layton has always been my most wanted character of all, and even with all the games I've played up until now he'll still remain at the top until my dream is fulfilled.
I will consider Ultimate complete ONLY when they at least add content from Level 5 in Smash, but they might as well go all the way in and add my BOY.
His moveset potential is INSANE and those who say otherwise clearly haven't played nor seen any Layton game. I WANT to Layton to point fingers at Smash characters and deal damage with it. I WANT him to shoot at Smash characters with his slot coin machine gun. I WANT him to pull a puzzle for his final smash.
I WANT LAYTON MUSIC IN SMASH.
They could also very well promote him with the original DS trilogy's release on the Switch in HD like the Ace Attorney trilogy.
Anyway Professor Layton is the best character ever please play the Layton games and make sure to look at the moveset I made for him in my signature.

Steve :
Chances : 50%
Minecraft is hella popular, is nostalgia inducing and has an insane fanbase (myself included)
Minecraft is the most popular video game of all time, the most sold of all time.
It NEEDS to be in Smash in some form.
With Banjo in Smash, I'd say it's a matter of time until we get Minecraft content in Smash.
It's not guaranteed, which is why it's 50/50 for me.
Want : 10%
The most I want from Minecraft however, is just a bonus stage with music and a Steve and Alex mii costume (and a creeper head lmao).
IMO, Steve would look awkward in Smash and I'd rather him just be a mii costume honestly.
I don't doubt that the moveset potential is here and that Sakurai could make it work (Mr Game&Watch is great, but is VERY different from Steve in terms of movement), but I just don't want him as a character.
All we need is the stage and the music, and I'm satisfied. I'm sure the internet would be satisfied as well, you just need to look at Sans x)
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Concept: A non-white/Asian human character x300
Concept: A non-videogame character gets a Mii Costume x300
Tidus x270
Nate Adams x245
[Rerate] Ezio x240
Shuichi Saihara x216
Moogle x180

200 - 151

[Rerate] Prince of All Cosmos x170
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x160
[Rerate] Monster Hunter x155
Concept: Shin Megami Tensei rep x155

150 - 101

Alex Mason x145
[Rerate] Frisk x140
Klonoa x140
Echo: Xion (Sora) x138
Sakura Shinguji x137
Concept: Deltarune content x126
Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x121
The Stretchers x120
D.Va x115
Red (Angry Birds) x115
Proto Man x115
Zelda (BotW sequel) x110
Billy Hatcher x110

100 - 51

Amiya (Arknights) x90
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Riptor x80
Hades (Kid Icarus) x80
Fulgore x79
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors) x75
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x75
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x74
Boss: Ender Dragon x73
Echo: Dark Bowser (Bowser) x67
The Terrarian x65
Concept: Rocket League rep x65
[Rerate] Concept: Boss Rush x65
Giygas x60
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x55
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x55
Austin the Butler (Gardenscapes) x55
Concept: Fortnite character x55
Gooigi x55

50 - 25

Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x50
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x50
Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x50
Dr. Goomba Tower x50
Magolor x50
John Marston x50
Jin Sakai x50
[Rerate] Monokuma x50
Stage: Bowser's Castle x50
Echo: Lord Fredrik (King K. Rool) x50
Concept: A Microsoft rep that isn't Steve or Master Chief x45
Ghirahim x40
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x40
Boss: Rayquaza x39
The Bard (Wandersong) x35
Concept: Returning stages x35
Yoshimitsu x35
Echo (Olimar) x31
Concept: Fighter Pass Volume 2 is half Nintendo and half third party x30
Urbosa x30
Vi (Bug Fables) x30
Concept: Assist Trophies added in updates x27
Rival Pokémon Trainer x25
Concept: Dark Souls rep x25
[Rerate] Maxwell x25
Lora and Jin x25

Under 25

Black Shadow x20
Concept: Fighter Pass 2 gets delayed x20
Demi-fiend x20
Chell x18
Zeraora x15
Wolf Link x15
Concept: FP2 character comes with an Echo Fighter x15
Cynthia x15
Taranza x11
Gran/Djeeta x10
Otto Matic x10
The Avatar (Ultima) x10
Concept: Bravely Default rep x10
Medusa (Kid Icarus) x10
Concept: Rhythm Heaven rep x10
Tetra x10
Zero (Mega Man) x10
Mii Costume: Jacket x7
Concept: Darkstalkers rep x6
Sparky (Clash Royale) x5
Concept: Overwatch character x5
Asha (Wonder Boy) x5
Mii Costume: Hat Kid x5
Concept: Portal 2 rep x5
Breath of the Wild 2 Ganondorf x5
Tick (Brawl Stars) x5
King Graham x5
Cooking Mama x5
Jill (Drill Dozer) x5
Asuka (Senran Kagura) x5
Furret x5
Deku Scrub x5
Mii Costume: Edward Falcon x5
Concept: A LABO character x5
Concept: Bonus character x5
Concept: No AT promotions x5
[Rerate] Morrigan Aensland x5
[Rerate] Cadence x5
Octoling x5
Kazuya Mishima x5
Excitebiker x5
Gil (Babylonian Castle Saga/The Tower of Druaga) x5
Young Wizard (Wizard101) x5
Concept: Tetris 99 stage x5
Concept: More individual stage DLC x5
Mii Costume: Gen 1 Pokémon x5
Don-chan x5
Concept: Rocket League content x5
Concept: Generic Zora x3
Three Mage Sisters x2
Concept: A Pokémon Trainer who fights x2
Concept: A fighter who uses all kicks x2
[Rerate] Metal Sonic x2
Concept: Generic Goron x2
Kass x1

Concept: Shin Megami Tensei rep negotiates for over 150 noms.

Echo: Lord Fredrik reaches 50 noms, and is now safe from the purge.
 

amageish

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,558
Layton
Chances: 30%. Layton (and Level-5 as a whole) is in a weird spot. Big Japanese company with long Nintendo history, yet nothing in Smash. Layton was Nintendo exclusive for a long while and even published/promoted by Nintendo in the west. There was a long period where you'd have been forgiven for thinking he was just straight-up a second party character. He's one of the only franchises in his subgenre to get worldwide releases. Lots of unique moveset potential and general good possibilities with him.

Problem is... Level-5 is kind of on fire right now? My goodness do their games take a long time to come out and even longer to be localized... They've also left some of their relationship with Nintendo behind - Layton's Mystery Journey was smartphone-exclusive in the west for a while and Yokai Watch 4 got an enhanced PS4 port. With only 5 slots in this pass left, it does seem possible they'll be left aside and not get a playable character in Smash. I do think they'd be fairly likely to get a spirit event or Mii Costume if nothing else though.

Want: 100%. Layton is a good series and I would like him in Smash. He's been one of my most-wanted since Brawl. He's great and from a great series. Yay.

Abstain on Steve, though I do generally doubt that we're getting a second Microsoft character due to the way Banjo was discussed around his release. I don't think they'd be publicly discussing how the stars needed to align to get Banjo and the role MineCraft cosmetic DLC played into that if they were also planning Steve at the same time...

Noms: Moogle x 5 and Concept: Jill Stingray Mii Costume x5? If we're doing 10 noms now...
Predictions: Waluigi = 30% / Rex = 82%
 

Calamitas

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,689
Location
Germany
Puzzled Professor Man

Chance 45%

Level 5 has good relations with Nintendo, the Layton series has (as far as I know) primarily appeared on Nintendo consoles, and it has a decently long history. Really, Layton is the kind of character where it is a bit surprising that he hasn't made it in yet, but at the same time, I'm not convinced that it'll actually happen in this Fighter Pass.

Want: Abstain
I only ever played the first Layton game a couple of years ago, and have been meaning to continue playing the series. . . but never getting around to it. Since I don't consider this enough to warrant a rating, I'll abstain.

Block Man

Chance: 35%

This one is. . . tough to rate. On the one hand, Minecraft is one of the single most successful (if not the most successful) individual video games of all time. In terms of legacy, popularity, and ties to Nintendo, it has more than earned its position. But on the other hand, Ultimate's DLC thus far hasn't really gone all in on the "big, massive hitters" in terms of characters, except for maybe Joker and Hero. Given that this second Fighter Pass is likely being made on a smaller budget than the previous one, I just have my doubts whether we'll see one of these characters.

Want: Abstain
Never touched Minecraft. Not gonna give a rating.

Predictions:
Rex - 65%. People will most likely overrate him again, so I don't see his chances changing much since last time.
Waluigi - 42.69%.

Nominating Concept: A non-white/Asian human character x5
 

Erureido

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
5,408
NNID
Erureido
3DS FC
5301-1552-4121
Switch FC
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Been a while since I last posted here, but I heard the news that Professor Layton is being rerated today, so I just have to lend a hand for this one.

Professor Layton

Chance:
50%

I made quite a long write up about the Professor back when he was first rated, and I brought back that same write up in the two times he was rerated prior to today. I'm just going to bring back that same write up for today because it covers all the main points regarding Professor Layton's situation when it comes to Smash. Some parts are outdated, but I still think a lot of what I said back then is still relevant to Layton's chances to today.

Here is the full write-up below (for those that joined RTC following December 2018, this will likely be new too). I made it rather... fun and engaging by presenting the info through a conversation Professor Layton and Luke have!

So I guess it's time yet again.

Well, I think it makes sense to callback to the day I gave it my all. I'll bring it back here, because the majority of it is still relevant to where Professor Layton stands now. There are a few changes to it though, as you'll see upon reading it.

------

Professor Layton and Luke decided to look through a video camera to recall certain memories. With the recent news of some more fighters that will be invited to the new Super Smash Bros tournament. They watched it again, and decided to rename their video as of the time they watched it to "Rate their Chances - Switch Edition! Day 214 - Professor Layton."

This was the video they watched:



Look, Professor! The Rate Their Chances thread is back! I didn't think it would return so soon, let alone did I think it would examine you this early on!



Well, it's only natural the announcement of an upcoming Smash tournament to entice people to the point of reviving fun ways to keep their excitements high.



That makes sense. The Rate Their Chances game seems to be one of those traditions people do to prepare for the Smash tournament.



Indeed. It's a place where people speculate about a fighter's chances of participating in the upcoming Smash tournament. Seeing how the thread thrives with speculation, this reminds me of a puzzle!



A puzzle? What do you have in mind, Professor?



Luke, remember when we first participated in the Rate Their Chances thread two years ago in that Character Support Thread Group part of Smashboards?



Yes, I do! We talked about what we thought your chances at appearing in the Smash tournament at the time!



Precisely, my boy! Seeing how we first discussed my chances at appearing in the Smash tournament a while ago, I think it is worth discussing it again.



But it has only been two years since we solved that puzzle, Professor. I don't think much has changed.



Oh, you would be surprised, Luke. A lot has happened since we last discussed this topic, and some of these things have even boosted my chances. That's why I think it's worth revisiting this puzzle! I'll help you through it just like I did last time. We can both work together to find the solution!



Of course! Let's do this together, Professor!

Que into the Layton symbol that segways into the puzzle

Puzzle 027:
The Layton Smash 5 Mystery
Revisited


Here's some music for you to enjoy

Professor Layton and Luke are revisiting the Rate Their Chances thread. This is a place where people discuss a video game character's chances of participating in the next Smash Bros tournament. With the recent announcement of a new tournament coming to the Nintendo Switch later this year, you bet everyone is eagerly speculating yet again. Today just so happens to be the day people are talking about Layton's chances at appearing in the tournament.

Some aspects about Layton's chances remain the same, but others have changed. In fact, some of those new elements have improved his chances!

Using the knowledge about Layton's chances in the Smash 4 days and how his chances are currently looking like for Smash Switch as of April 2018, what is an accurate chance score for the Professor at the moment?



I think we should begin by reiterating what remains true about the positives.



Indeed, my boy. It never hurts to take care of the easy elements first before tackling the harder parts. You can begin.



One of the strongest advantages you have is that your games have a very close relationship with Nintendo. They are all Nintendo exclusives, and they were especially successful! As of April 2015, the series has sold over 15 million copies! The first four games sold especially well, while the 5th title, Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask, was the best-selling 3DS when the Nintendo 3DS was first released in Japan. In fact, your series has become one of Nintendo's flagship series in its portable gaming industry!

It's also worth mentioning that while your games were popular worldwide, they were especially popular in Europe thanks to the European cultural elements found in each of those games. Your games have even gained a large following amongst female gamers (and the fact Katrielle Layton is the new star of the new Layton games is proof of that), so I conclude that if you were invited for Smash, you will surely attract a wide array of gamers to the tournament.



Well said. Now that we are on the subject of the Smash tournament's organizer, Nintendo, I think we should build off of that and talk about how that company is closely affiliated with the one that created us: Level 5.



Level 5 and Nintendo... a-ha! The two companies share a very close relationship together! Almost all of Level 5's games have been Nintendo Exclusive, and even the Inazuma Eleven anime created by Level 5 was also featured in the Nintendo Anime Channel for a period of time.

We also cannot forget that Nintendo is the company in charge of publishing, translating, and advertising the Level 5 games when they come out to the West. This relationship is so close that many people have mistaken you for being a Nintendo character, Professor!



Hahaha, very true! Level 5 and Nintendo have a strong friendship indeed. Akihiro Hino, Level 5's CEO, even expressed interest in seeing me participate in Smash at one point.



There was also something else that crossed my mind about your series' success. The series has achieved seven games, a well-received movie, and even a crossover with that famous lawyer, Phoenix Wright!



Right you are. There are also a few new things associated with my franchise too that have developed in this past year.



New things? What exactly do you mean, Professor?



As you are aware, the seventh game in the franchise and the subsequent games that will come after it star my daughter, Katrielle Layton, as the main protagonist. As such, one of the new things she will star in is a new anime that has been airing for several months now.



An anime? Good golly, I didn't think your series would spawn an anime!



Remember that my series did have an animated, feature-length movie that was praised by critics and fans. Considering this fact and how far the series has come, I don't think it's that surprising to see an anime.



Well, in that case, we can definitely add that anime to your list of credentials. Maybe we should also add that you now have two Twitter accounts as well?




Admittedly, it has almost been a year since I last updated in my personal Twitter account, but I would certainly take note about the official Layton series Twitter account as that is proof my franchise has an identifiable mark in the mainstream Internet.



That makes sense.... Huh...



Is something on your mind, my boy?



Yes. It has do with your daughter, Katrielle.



My daughter? I sense an interesting argument about to be brought forth. Go on.



Seeing how your daughter is the new main star of the new Layton series and the upcoming anime, I feel like some will argue that she is the one who has the better shot to participate in the upcoming Smash tournament instead of you.



Ah yes, the question of relevancy and how it can affect old vs new stars. I know just the answer to that concern.

My daughter may have inherited the reigns of being a main protagonist, but I would not say this automatically gives her a higher chance. Due to her recency, not many people are likely to recognize her from the get-go compared to the one that has been the main protagonist for much longer.




Ah, so you're saying that because you have been around for much longer than she has, you are the more recognized individual, and therefore, you are more likely to participate in the upcoming tournament.



Precisely!



And on that note, when she first established her detective agency, many of her customers were surprised that she would be the one solving the tasks and not you. That just shows you are still the more recognized individual at the moment.

We also can't forget that you still do appear in her recent game and anime as well. After all, one of her main goals is to find your whereabouts. That just shows you are still playing a major role in her games, even if you are not the main protagonist.



Good points, Luke.



Do you think she'll ever have a chance at participating in a future Smash tournament, Professor?



Why of course! I think there will come a day when she will be eligible to receive an invitation for that sort of thing, but the first thing for that to happen would have to involve me being invited to the Smash tournament. Once I am invited and participate in it, that will allow her and other prominent individuals from my series to receive a chance to compete in this grand competition. At the moment, I think it'd be best to give her some time to learn and develop her puzzle-solving skills some more before she can participate in something that can be quite dangerous.



I see you that you still care about your daughter very much. You are quite a loving father, Professor.

Now that we talked about Katrielle enough, I think we should go back to the subject of your series' fame. I remember you made a good point about how you were very important to Level 5's success!



Ah yes! You could also say that the success of my series is what allowed Level 5 to reach the public eye and become one of the more recognized video game companies of this past decade. By keeping the same style that myseries introduced, they went on to produce two other successful series: Nii no Kuni and Yokai Watch.

I've even made a few cameos in some Level 5's other works. First, there was Inazuma Eleven where us and the famed soccer team shared a fun football match. That one Yokai Watch character, Professor Lenkon, is also inpired from me (a pretty amusing one too if I do say so myself). Finally, I also appeared on a billboard in LBX: Little Battlers Experience.




And judging from all these crossovers, that means Level 5 acknowledges you as its major gaming icon!



Exactly! Now, keeping that concept of gaming icon in mind, what is my series known for?



The puzzles! They work a lot like a series of brain teasers, and they cover various modes of critical thinking. For that reason, you are the puzzle-gaming rep of all video games!



Careful now, Luke. Remember to add the word "arguably" to that specific claim. There are other video game characters you could make good arguments regarding who is the current greatest puzzle-game rep in the gaming world.



Oh, right. I remember that you also made a brief aside regarding how one of the current Smash tournament participants, Dr. Mario, doesn't necessarily qualify for that kind of title.



Indeed. Dr. Mario isn't a true puzzle game rep since his games are essentially spin-offs of a much bigger franchise. My series, on the other hand, would have more interesting representation in the Smash tournament since it's a unique series that is especially known for puzzles and mysteries.



That is a very good point.

Another thought has also just crossed my mind. When your series first began, Nintendo was looking to appeal to the casual audience. One casual activity Nintendo discovered that those people enjoy is reading books, so the company figured one way they could appeal to them was to release games with a visual novel format, and your series had that kind of style.

Combine the visual format style with the brain teasers, and you have a game that appeals so well to casual gamers. That's why your series has been very successful!



Well said, my boy! I see that you remembered that argument quite well!



But that also reminds me of something. Even to this day, there are STILL people who laugh and underestimate you. They say you would never be invited to a Smash tournament because, "You're just a gentleman who solves puzzles. You can't fight at all!" Those people really get on my nerves!



Stay calm, Luke! Now is not the time to get angry in a place like this. If you speak with anger towards them, they may not think of you well. A true gentleman is one who stays calm and speaks well in order to leave the best impression on others. I shall give my response to those people once more.

To answer their concern, I would remind them about the fact that Smash has had individuals like a yoga trainer, a simple dog with his duck pal, and an ordinary village boy participate in the tournament. Apparently, I'm one of those characters that the tournament's organizer, Masahiro Sakurai, would invite for the shock value.

Many of my attacks would most likely revolve around the numerous numbers of puzzles I solved throughout my adventures. The way I would use those elements would be similar to another character named "Mr. Game & Watch" and how he pulls out different elements from his series at random to pay homage to the Game and Watch series.

I would also tell them that I have created various inventions in the past using my intellect that have pulled me through dire situations. Among these inventions include A machine gun made from a coin-slot machine, a flying mechanism made from a globe frame, a stone-launching catapult made from a gate, a boat, and a ladder, a gliding contraption made from a Pterodactyl fossil, and other things. I can incorporate these inventions into my moveset to further demonstrate my intellect.

I can also utilize various archaeological tools and artifacts against my foes. It's important that these fighters know what field that I teach as a professor by having such objects ready. My fencing skills will also be especially handy for an environment like this.




Hearing you speak so eloquently on this matter has calmed me down. Thanks Professor!



Anytime, Luke!



But don't forget to not rely on your sword too much or else people will think you're just another ordinary sword-fighter, and there seems to be some kind of stigma against those kinds of fighters at the moment.



You are correct. I would be sure to only use a sword for a few attacks so that I can focus on the puzzles I solved and the inventions I created. By striking this balance, this will give spectators the impression that I am a fighter representing the puzzle and mystery-game genre and not an ordinary swordsman.



I think we talked about the positives long enough. Should we get to the negatives that can prevent you from being invited to the Smash tournament? I actually remember a lot of those points that we previously discussed regarding them.



Yes, now is a good time to touch on that subject. Carry on!



The biggest issue that comes to mind is that you are a third-party character. Such individuals are harder to invite to Smash than the first-party ones. In fact, they say you need a really big legacy to be invited, and compared to some of the more commonly discussed third-parties like Rayman or Snake, some people think you are not iconic.

But what they do not realize is that you fit Sakura's third-party criteria when it comes to how he chooses which third-party characters to fight in Smash. We talked quite extensively about how you are a gaming icon to Level 5 and how that would fit Sakurai's criteria. Also, since Akihiro Hino expressed interest in seeing you participate in Smash and Level 5 has a close relationship with Nintendo, Sakurai would have an easier time inviting you to Smash compared to other third-party candidates.

We even had one third-party character that managed to participate in Smash despite not being a massive gaming icon: Bayonetta. She is proof that you don't need to be super iconic to be invited to Smash. Sakurai even called her a "realizable" choice!



I see you remember that argument quite well. Well done.

The only part I would add to it is that Bayonetta was added because she won the Smash Ballot, so one can argue that alone was what brought her to the Smash tournament. Still, you do make a very good point regarding what Bayonetta's invitation means for future third-party candidates to be considered for Smash.




You even had a good number of fans who have been wanting you to participate in Smash for quite some time. I think you also have that supporter-part covered too.

There was also the issue of relevancy back then when your series was on hiatus, but that is no longer an issue since your series has returned full swing with the Layton's Mystery Journey series and the upcoming anime featuring it. We also already countered the claim Katrielle Layton would have the better chance because she is the new star by explaining how you have been around longer and are thus more recognizable.

In other words, your chances are looking really good right now Professor!



Indeed, but there is one major issue that you are forgetting: competition!



Competition? With who?



Jibanyan, the ghost cat with fire powers and the mascot of Yokai Watch.



Oh yeah, Jibanyan. His series is still around, and it seems like there are still a good number of people who want to see him fight in the upcoming Smash tournament, especially in Japan.



Yes, Yokai Watch has become a commercial success in Japan. It also saw some success overseas as well. This makes Jibanyan my main competitor for the upcoming Smash Tournament if Sakurai were to choose a single individual to represent Level 5.



And while Bayonetta's inclusion is proof that someone like Jibanyan can be invited, Sakurai should still remember that it was because of you and your series that Level 5 and Yokai Watch managed to become as recognized as they are today.



Indeed.

Now, considering everything we have discussed, what do you think are my new chances of appearing in this upcoming Smash tournament as of now?




I'd say you currently have a 35% chance of being invited to the upcoming Smash tournament!



Let's find out.

You can stop playing that puzzle music right now

-------------------------------------------------------------------


The info below is the TL;DR version of what Professor Layton and Luke discussed

Here's some new Layton music to enjoy for the remainder of this post

Chance: 35%

Though not as iconic as the likes of Megaman, Pac-Man, Sonic, or the other big name third parties in Smash Ultimate, Professor Layton does have a very good degree of fame in video games that gives him a good resume in gaming history. He is a recognizable face when it comes to puzzle games and the visual novel genre, the casual elements his games provide was a reason why his series was especially successful in the DS-era (a time when Nintendo wanted to appeal more to the casual audience), has launched two Twitter accounts, had a crossover with the Ace Attorney series, had a successful movie and now an anime, and his series has sold about 15 million units as of April 2015, and he has made cameos in other Level 5 games.

Most importantly, it is because of the Layton series success that Level 5 managed to become the successful video game company it is today. Professor Layton is to Level 5 what Megaman and Pac-man are to their respective video game companies. Heck, the cameos he has made in other Level 5 games is proof of how important he is to Level 5.

His moveset would most likely involve the puzzles he has solved in the series or other puzzle-related elements like the magnifying glass or the hint coins, as well as the inventions he has made using his strong intellect. He could also use archaeological tools and artifacts to reference the fact he is an archaeologist. Some, but not all moves, could also highlight his fencing capabilities. Basically, Layton would captilize himself as a puzzle-game rep with his moveset. Layton is the kind of character Sakurai would implement for the surprise factor: a kind of character who doesn't look a fighter but can still have a workable moveset; look at characters like Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, and Piranha Plant for proof.

Let's also not forget that Professor Layton does have some decent Smash popularity to him, especially in Europe. Even Level 5's CEO, Akihiro Hino, expressed interest in seeing Professor Layton in Smash.

Now to talk about why I increased my chance score for Layton by 10% compared to the last time I rated him:

It has recently been confirmed that the DLC roster was decided in November 2018, sometime following the November Direct. The initial Smash Ultiamte roster was decided back in 2015, during the one year the Layton series was on a hiatus. This may explain why Layton was not considered for the intiial base roster. However, his is no longer the case. In 2018, The Layton series is back in full swing! The Layton anime is still airing as of the time this post was written, Curious Village just recently got a remake released on Smartphone devices, and now Diabolical Box is set to have a Smartphone remake of its own as well in the next few months. Although his daughter is the star, Professor Layton has even become a major character in the Layton anime with several prominent appearances and even tying into an important mystery the anime is exploring now.

Professor Layton himself also fits the bill as a rep of a "yet-to-be-represented IP" that Nintendo has recently talked about regarding what the new DLC fighters will be. Better yet, he's also the kind of character that would fit very well for the "surprise" factor that Nintendo seems to be going for with these Smash DLC fighters (just look at Joker, who is also proof that anyone who has had recent relevance is fair game since he is a character that debuted last year with Persona 5).

Honestly, the only real issue I can think of aside from Professor Layton being third party (those same comments Nintendo made about these fighters imply they'll probably be third party characters this time around, and Layton is a third party character himself, so that's arguably a benefit for him too) is his competition. Jibanyan is the closest competitor that Professor Layton has when it comes to who could represent Level 5. Jibanyan is a more requested in Japan than Layton is, and Jibanyan also fits the bill for the "yet-to-represented IP" on the roster that can surprise the audience with its inclusion. However, I believe Layton still has the edge over Jibanyan because Layton has done much more for Level 5 than the fiery ghost cat, not to mention Yokai Watch only really has prominence in Japan whereas the Yokai Watch craze only really lasted a few months in America, Europe, and other parts of the world.
Although I gave Professor Layton a 35% chance at that time, I'm going to change it and give him a 50% chance rating now. Honestly, Layton's chances feel like a coin toss at this point. Level 5 is one of the notable video game companies that, very surprisingly, still does not have any representation in Smash (not even through Spirits!), especially when you consider that Level 5 and Nintendo are very close. If they were to pick a character to represent Level 5, Professor Layton surely comes to mind. He is definitely iconic enough for a third party to be in Smash, especially when you consider that he is Level 5's most iconic and important character: the fact that he has made cameos across multiple Level 5 games, got his own movie and anime, AND had a crossover with the Ace Attorney series show that he has the credentials. Even Level 5's CEO, Akihiro Hino, has stated that he has the biggest soft spot for the Layton series compared to other Level 5 titles because the Layton series were the first games Level 5 published that got worldwide attention, and these games ultimately paved the way for the company's success.

While Jibanyan is still a competitor for the potential Level 5 rep, Yokai Watch isn't as popular as it used to be, and when it comes to the legacy factor, Layton definitely left a much bigger impact for Level 5 for reasons previously stated.

Layton even looks like the kind of character Sakurai would implement: that is, a character who does not look a fighter, but you can still make a fun moves out of. His moveset would likely be a culmination of some of the most iconic puzzles he solved, along with the inventions he created and some archaeological tools/artifacts to reference his intellectual side, culminating with a character that would fit as the definitive puzzle game rep in the Smash roster.

Honestly, I feel like Layton's only issue when it comes to Smash is just priority. We don't know how much of a priority he would be compared to other possible reps, so that's also why I feel like his chances are coin flip at this point. Still, on the bright side, I do think think this is currently Layton's best chance of being added; definitely a much higher chance than in 2018.

Want: 100%

Professor Layton is my favorite video game character of all time, and he has been my most wanted character to be playable in Smash Bros since the Smash 4 days.

The Professor Layton series is among my favorite video game franchises. It is filled with fun brain teasers and has has some of the best stories I've ever experienced from all the video games I played. The colorful and entertaining cast of characters are another reason why I adore the Layton series, and the Professor himself is no exception. I adore Professor Layton because of his many wonderful characteristics: he is smart, badass, and most of all, a true gentleman. The Professor has left many quotes that I consider to be endearing and inspirational, and he has even become one of my personal role-models. He also has a very deep and sad backstory regarding how he became the man he is now and the hardships he experienced, but we'd be going into major spoiler territory if I were to talk about that.

Anyways, I think Layton would make a ridiculously fun fighter in Smash considering how much moveset potential he has. From the inventions he made, to his fencing skills, to his archaeological tools and artifacts, to all elements from the wide array of puzzles from the series, he’d be the kind of character that would surely remind foes “of a puzzle.” You look at the professor and think, “What’s this simple gentleman going to do to me?” Suddenly, he plays with you mind as he pulls out different inventions and puzzle elements out of nowhere as you react with pure surprise.

In fact, if you are still not convinced about Layton being a Smash fighter, here's a moveset I created for him that encompasses everything I discussed regarding what he would do and how I imagine he'd play out as a Smash fighter:

Basic Animations:

Walk: Layton would walk normally like he does in the games.

Run: A basic running animation. Visually, it resembles the scenes when he chased the Black Raven in Last Specter and the moment the Giant Float is about to collapse on him in Miracle Mask. He has the same running speed as Snake.

Jump: He lunges upward in the first jump. With his second jump, he curls his body, but it doesn't give him too much vertical distance. It is very similar to Snake's jumps, but Layton's up special makes up for it.

Fall: Layton holds onto his hat with one hand while his other arm is held out, slightly bent. He has relatively fast falling speed as he is a bit of a heavy weight.

Crouch: Layton bends with one knee while one arm rests on it.

Crawl: A basic crawling animation where Layton crawls with his knees and hands.

Shield: Layton grabs his hat with one hand, while his other arm is bent and hovers over his chest.

Roll: Instead of rolling, Layton slides to the outside of the stage. When returning back, he has one hand on the ground as he bends his body forward.

Side-step: Layton grabs his hat with one hand and moves toward the back of the stage with a surprised expression while his other arm extends far to the side.

Dizzy: Layton grabs his hat with one hand and stumbles from left to right.

Sleep: Layton sits down with his legs crossed while resting his head on one of his arms.

Swimming: Layton moves his arms similar to a breast-stroke pull.

Drowning: He lowers his hat over his eyes with one of his hands, while the other arm and his legs float helplessly in the water.

Idle Animations:

-Animation 1: Layton adjusts his hat.
-Animation 2: Layton holds his hand to his chin, taking a thinking position.
-Animation 3: Layton pouts his arms and slightly nods his head.

Launching scream: Layton screams, "Uuwaaahhh." It sounds similar to the scene when he tumbles with Luke through the forest in Azran Legacy.

KO scream: Layton screams, "Huaghh." It sounds exactly like his scream when Emmy crossed his path at the beginning of Last Specter.

Star KO scream: Sounds exactly like his scream from Azran Legacy when the beam of light was killing him.

Basic attacks:

Jab:
Layton delivers a small slap with his right hand while raising his pinky (supposed to be a gentleman's slap).

Double Jab: The second jab is another gentleman's slap, but he uses his left hand instead.

Triple Jab: Layton pulls out a fencing sword and uses it like he's in a fencing match. It can lead into a repetitive jab, and the final blow is the finishing fencing move that touches the opponent.

Dash Attack: Layton pulls out a metallic pipe and slashes from left tor right. The attack manner is similar to Marth's dash attack.

Tilt Attacks:

Forward Tilt: Layton holds out his magnifying glass, and the tool gives the same orange tint just like it does in the games when you find something of interest (even producing the same sound effect). The moment when the magnifying glass turns orange is when damage is delivered.

Up Tilt: Layton takes an "a-ha" stance as the iconic red exclamation mark from the games appears above his head. This exclamation mark is what deals the damage, and it is his strongest tilt attack.

Down Tilt: Layton uses an archaeological hand pick and does a hammering animation using it.

Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Aerial: Layton grabs a camera by its strap and swings it around himself.

Forward Aerial: Layton uses the same metallic pipe and moves the pipe downward. Visually, the attack resembles Layton's first strike on Descole when Layton released himself from the Fossil Glider in Azran Legacy.

Back Aerial: Keats the Puzzle Cat emerges from Layton's coat, and the cat slashes foes from behind Layton's back before returning to his coat. During this animation, Layton watches Keats with a surprised expression and quickly helps Keats return back into his coat.

Up Aerial: Layton pulls out the toy robot from Miracle Mask and holds it above his head. The toy robot then does a small, upward jump from Layton's hand while moving its arms up. This attack has a dual-damaging effect where it can potentially deal two blows to the opponent. There is a sweet-spot at the robot's arms.

Down Aerial: Layton takes a shovel and stabs it toward the ground. The attack heavily resembles Link's down aerial, even having the same meteor spike if the opponent is hit by the sweet-spot.

Grabs:

Pummel: Layton knees his opponent.

Each of Layton's throws reference various puzzles throughout the series. In each throw, he releases his opponent and changes into a thinking position. Upon releasing his opponent, the throw takes place. After the throw finishes, he looks up with a grin on his face, just like when a puzzle is correctly solved. Think of it as if Layton uses his intellectual thoughts to attack the foe. It's like Layton is playing "mind-games" with his opponents!

Forward Throw: A small toy train (as seen from a bird's eye view) appears above Layton, moves toward the opponent, and latches onto him/her. The train quickly moves slightly forward then diagonally upward before disappearing and releasing the opponent. It mimics those "drag the line" puzzles where you need to get a chain to another side, usually involving trains of some sort.

Back Throw: Three pitchers appear in front of Layton. The opponent is then thrown between the pitchers as if he/she is being poured like milk. It mimics the milk puzzle from Curious Village.

Up Throw: Three rectangular blocks push the opponent upwards, with the final block releasing the opponent high. It's a weak attack with high knockback, mimicking those "drag the blocks to get a certain piece to the other side" puzzles that are very common throughout the series.

Down Throw: A tetris-shaped block pushes the opponent downward. A second one pushes the opponent in a direction behind Layton. The last piece pushes the opponent upward. This ultimately creates a rigid U-shaped throw. It mimics those "fix the pictures" puzzles that is akin to assembling a jigsaw puzzle, but the pieces are more tetris-shaped.

Smash Attacks:

Each of these attacks involve the Azran Keystone from Azran Legacy.

Forward Smash: Layton pulls out the Azran Keystone casually holding it to the side for the charging animation. Once he finishes charging, he extends his arm holding the Keystone in front of himself. The Keystone then delivers a shockwave-like blast that deals tremendous damage to foes. The blast looks exactly the same as the one that was produced from the device in the games.

Up Smash: It plays out almost identically to the forward smash. The only difference is that Layton holds the Keystone above his head for the finishing blow, and the blast deals vertical knockback.

Down Smash: Unlike the forward and up smashes, Layton puts the Azran Keystone on the ground and holds it there for the charging animation. Once fully charged, the Keystone emits the the same blast, only this time, it covers a 360 degree radius surrounding Layton.

Specials:

Standard Special - Coin-Slot Machine Gun:
Layton pulls out the same gun of the same name he created in Unwound Future. He charges it then and fires a barrage of coins. The length of time it takes to fire the coins depends on your charge time. Layton can move left and right while firing his gun, but he cannot turn around while doing so. The barrage of coins has the same effect as firing multiple, small shots from the Super Scope, but unlike the Super Scope, you can combo into a grab by moving toward the foe as you fire coins to keep him/her stunned. The gun can fire for up to five seconds at most. You can't use it right away after the gun finishes firing because the next Layton uses the attack, he will dump a bag of coins to prepare for the next attack. It takes about one second for Layton to dump coins. Once he finishes doing so, you can charge and fire again.

Side Special - Hamster Attack: Layton throws an apple, and if it hits someone, it does a small amount of damage. If he uses the side special again, he will throw the hamster this time, and it will quickly run towards the apple. As the hamster runs, it can climb up walls similar to the Bombchu, and it can damage anyone in its path with small damage. Once it reaches the apple, the hamster eats it. If an opponent is right next to an apple, he/she will be trapped by the hamster as it eats the apple and wrack up damage with each bite. Basically, the hamster is biting the opponent's feet in the process. With the final bite, the opponent is launched with decent knock back.

Up Special - Globe Glider: Layton uses the Globe Glider he built from Curious Village. When utilizing it, he faces towards his front. The glider can travel very high and is easy to maneuver, similar to Snake and ROB's up specials. This attack makes up for Layton's low second jump, repeating a similar deal to Snake's recovery. The glider can also disrupt an opponent's up-special when it makes contact, but in doing so, the glider will lose control for a few seconds before Layton is forced to dislodge himself. This references the scene when the glider slightly touches Don Paolo's helicopter in Curious Village, disrupting it to the point Don Paolo is forced to flee. When his up special finishes, Layton is not rendered helpless.

Down Special - Stone Catapult: Layton pulls out the catapult he uses to take down Descole in Last Specter, but it has been scaled down to closely match his size. With two stones in the slinger, he charges the catapult for the first half of the attack when holding the C-stick down, and after releasing it, he will throw the two stones into the air with the help of the catapult. You can charge the catapult so that two stones can be launched farther. The farther the stones are launched, the more knock back and damage they deal. The stones deal more damage if they hit a foe that is in the air.

Final Smash:

Deduction: A cinematic Final Smash that references the most iconic cutscene in every Layton game where the Professor identifies who the real culprit behind the crime was.

The Final Smash begins with Layton taking a thinking stance and saying, "Hmmm." A glint appears in front of Layton and covers a small yet decent range in front of him. If anyone is caught within the glint's range, the screen turns white.

The scene then changes to show several people, including the culprit, sitting around a table in an old-fashioned living room, with Layton standing behind them. The people are all shadowed save for the the opponent that was caught by the glint. While taking his classic thinking stance, Layton walks around the room and says, "Someone here was the mastermind behind this awful scheme." He then looks forward the opponent and does his signature point at him/her, telling the foe, "And that person was you!" At that moment, the opponent takes on a funny stunned animation, indicating their shock at being caught. The scene then returns to the battle, only this time, the caught foe is delivered a large amount of damage and knockback. That attack can KO as early as 50%.

If Layton caught two or more foes, the scene plays out like it normally does. The only difference is that Layton uses plural nouns at the respective moments. While walking around and thinking, he says "some people" instead of "someone," and when deducing the culprit, he says "those people" instead of "that person."

I can also imagine a nice Easter Egg where all the shadowed people are individuals that appeared in past Layton games.

Taunts:

Up Taunt: Layton adjusts his hat, then pouts his arms. As he pouts his arms, he says, "Every puzzle has an answer."

Side Taunt: Layton tips his hat forward and says, "A remarkable move!"

Down Taunt: Layton pulls out a cup of tea and drinks it.

Victory Animations:

The victory melody would be a more melodic version of the "Puzzle Solved" soundbite, heard in the video brought up with the first animation.

Animation 1: Layton puts his hand on his chin, closes his eyes and looks down, then looks back up at the camera. He follows with his signature point and says, "I've found the solution!" This entire animation plays out exactly like the "Puzzle Solved "bit after solving a puzzle. Here's a video for reference:


Remove the black stills that interrupt at the different intervals to make the whole animation more fluid, and that's how it would likely play out in Smash.

Animation 2: Layton adjusts his hat and says "A true gentleman leaves no puzzle unsolved." He finishes with a pout while smiling at the camera.

Animation 3: Layton brushes both arms of his coat as if he is removing dust. As he does so, he states, "That was quite the riveting match!" He then adjusts his coat by putting both hands on the zipper sides to tuck his coat up.

Losing Animation: A basic losing animation that involves Layton clapping towards his left side while holding a smile on his face.

Honestly, I feel so burned out from Smash speculation that I have very few characters left that I am really pinning for when it comes to Smash. In fact, most of the characters I want for Smash DLC at this point are characters that I think do not have much of a chance to be in Smash unless a miracle occurred.

Out of all the characters I currently want in Smash, Professor Layton is the only one out of all of them that I think fits the bill for a "very likely" fighter to be added into the game, and so he is the one I have the biggest hope for to be added as DLC at this point. If Professor Layton is confirmed to be in Smash as a playable fighter in this DLC pass, the day this news is revealed will legitimately be one of the happiest days in my life! That is how much I want Professor Layton in Smash at this point!

------

I'll abstain from Steve since I'm not that keen on Minecraft.

------

Nominations:

Hmmm.... I think I'll go with this one.

Concept: Arc System Works rep: x5
 
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Phoenix Douchebag

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Black Hat's Nicer Cousin.

Chance: 30%


As others have said, Level 5 has become an important Japanese Game Developer and managed to find footing outside of Japan. Yeah, they might not be iconic, but if SNK can be given a chance to get a character in Smash, i can't see why L5 can't. Yeah SNK has Latinamerica (assuming not everyone escapes from there) but Level 5 has Europe which is not surprising seeing the European influences of Professor Layton. I firmly believe that if they get a rep, it's Layton and no one else. Jibanyan's time has passed and his popularity in Japan is a shadow of his former self, and never catched on in any part of the west (because unlike PL, its concept is something only the japanese could truly appreciate) while Inazuma Eleven while popular is not exactly Smash material nor is it requested in the context of Smash, same goes for Ni No Kuni. Oh and PL is also the best selling L5 series by the way (over 17 Million units)

Layton was a very poppular request during the pre-Smash 4 days, despite the fact that Third Party requests in Smash during those days were actually pretty damn rare (especially compared to nowadays) and usually when it comes to Third Party companies, the character that gets in is either due to special request (Snake) or popular demand from the audience (Mega Man, Banjo) and Layton could easily go either way since Level 5's developers are fond of the Layton series due to its significance and the request for Layton, while far more silent than usual, are there.

The only reason i don't put him any higher is because his series is in a weird state right now. The series is not over, but it had a wierd period where it became silent from '13 to '17 only to finally get a game in '17......starring Layton's daughter, and it wasn't very popular so the series is in a weird state. Still, i firmly believe Layton is the only rep that Level 5 would chose, his legacy is too strong to ignore.

Want: 5%


...buuuuuuut i don't care about him. I can respect this character however. The narratives the series tackles, the brilliant game mechanics, the stylish art direction, and so on. It's no wonder this franchise has such a strong following, it even had movie that DIDN'T SUCK ASS.

Unfortunately for me, not only do i have no experience playing a Layton game, but the series is Puzzle Based, which is my kriptonyte. Plus unlike Lip i don't find his aesthetic interesing enough to be playable. I would be completely okay if he makes it in though, as i feel he deserves it.

Hiiiiii Steve...........

Chance: 50%

Blah blah blah blah blah Iconic character blah blah blah Best Selling Game of all time blah blah blah it's on every console now blah blah blah actually requested by a lot of people blah blah blah blah Banjo got in first but now Microsoft is involved so he might have a chance blah blah blah blah inevitable by the next game blah blah blah good moveset potential blah blah blah blah there.


I mean, he basically Mario for a whole new generation, i don't think i need to explain much here like i did last time. This is a coin toss in my opinion.

Want: 1%


Again, don't care, but respect the choice.

Predicitons:

Generator Rex and his two (three actually) waifus: 45.75% Now that Min Min is In In i can see a boost for him.
Wa........oh god, here we go again..........

Noms:

Vi (Bug Fables) X5
 

Jomosensual

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,014
Nothing new for Steve so here's my last time's rating on him

Steve

Chance 25 - Think this is possible but not sure how probable it is. First, Master Chief is a really big character to compete with since he's god tier in the west. That's a pretty big thing to overcome. I also don't feel confident that we'll get another Microsoft character at all. Think he's a solid guess for one but that might be all we see for this game microsoft wise.

Want 50 - Not a Minecraft fan at all. In fact, I only played it for like 5 minutes before getting bored and quitting. Steve is a well known character though and I've seen some solid moveset ideas for him though so I'll entertain the idea.

Prediction:
Mostly 1st party - 45%(I assume this means a 4/2 split or higher towards Nintendo reps)

Noms
Stretchers x5
And I guess I've never actually rated Professor Layton? Odd. Guess I'll be doing that then

Chance 25 - If we get a level 5 rep it's gonna be him. Level 5 is pretty close with Nintendo and I can't see Jibby over him for a number of reasons. He's fairly well known and his series is pretty successful. Biggest hit by far is that Phoenix Wright occupies the same sort of role as he would and I think a Capcom rep is much more likely.

Want 30 - Would be a 50 normally because I'm pretty neutral on him. I want Phoenix a lot though and since logically we're probably not getting both his numbers will take a hit here

Predictions
Rex 65%
Waluigi 43%

Noms
Non Steve/Chief Microsoft Rep x10
 

TCT~Phantom

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Layton

35% Chance

The thing that really helps Layton is he is one of those characters that had a solid ballot push. We know that the ballot was used for Ultimate, as many characters that were pushed on the ballot or would have done well on it in certain pockets of the world got in, or at least got a nod. And yet, Layton is absent. I think he is a dark horse candidate in a sense.

There are a few hurdles to Layton though. The first is Layton... is not a fighter by trade. Yes he fenced against Not Dracula and yes he made a casino game into a gatling gun, but he is not a fighter by trade. Now, smash is no stranger to these so this point is semi moot, but the point still stands. If you make a moveset for Layton, would it be representing of Layton and the Layton series? I could see Sakurai getting iffy about that aspect. While he has added characters that previously had design issues that would make representation hard, notably Ridley, Villager, and the Miis, I could see it being a hurdle here.

The second is a simple one, the Layton series is not in the hottest spot right now. Layton's daughter's game did not do so hot, and the franchise has cooled off a lot in between pre Smash 4 and now. It was certainly a pretty cool franchise getting a ton of support on the DS and 3DS, but it's hiatus might be a negative point.

Finally, I will just say Yo Kai Watch could be seen as competition, even if it did poorly in the West.

So why do I feel that Layton would be a solid dark horse candidate? Simple, he has a solid amount of fan demand and a significant loyalty to Nintendo. I also feel Level 5 might make ports of the IOS layton ports to the switch. Low key keep an eye out for a Professor Layton collection of the first three games for switch, it will be coming at some point. All three games are on IOS now, and look what that did for Ace Attorney. The fact he has a strong ballot push also makes me think he might have been considered for this. The main thing that makes me think this is... well, we have not seen him yet. Shovel Knight and Shantae got their nods, so did Bomberman. As time goes on, the number of ballot characters that got no nod in the game dwindle.

100% Want

Heck yeah. This is truly one of those ideas that has grown on me over time. At first, I was kind of apprehensive to it, but the more I think about this, the more ok with it I am.

Part of this might be due to replaying the series. Its fun. It has a lot of charm to it and it makes me happy playing them. I like them alot. Unwound Future is the mvp of the lot. It honestly is an amazing game, easily one of my favorite DS games. In case anyone cares, here is a short list of my favorite DS games...

1. The World Ends With You
2. Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver/Platinum
3. Chrono Trigger DS
4. Unwound Future
5. Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations
6. Bowser's Inside Story
7. Ghost Trick
8. Pokemon Gen 5
9. Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow
10. Mario Kart DS
11. Rhythm Heaven
12. Elite Beat Agents
13. 999
14. Kirby Super Star Ultra
15. Super Mario 64 DS

I try to keep things in franchises lumped in a general area. Point being, Layton defines the DS for me, and I would welcome him with open arms.

Steve?
45% Chance

...I have a gut hunch this is being a bit overrated by some.

The good for Steve is that well, Microsoft has their foot in the door. It also does not help that Minecraft is a giant. So, why am I kind of not riding this one out?

It is kind of just a gut hunch. It honestly is just that. I know minecraft is the best selling game of all time. I know it has a history, but I do not feel it happening.

60% Want

This is something that now that Banjo is in, I would not be as opposed to. TBH the main deal of this is I just think a Minecraft stage would be amazing for multiplayer shenanigans. I would love to mess around with it with friends. Also one of my friends is super against the idea, so I would love for Steve to make him seethe.


Ghirahim x 10, save him from the purge. If anyone wants help saving anything else, let me know.

I usually do not do predictions, but this time I will.

Rex: 72% Chance
Waluigi: 18% Chance
 

chocolatejr9

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Messages
8,271
Abstain. I don't know enough about either to give a rating. That being said, while I think Layton is a frontrunner for a Level-5 rep alongside Jibanyan, I honestly don't think he's as likely. That might just be my bias talking, plus I'm not aware of the current state of the Professor Layton series, so it probably doesn't matter.

Nominations: Concept: A Microsoft rep that isn't Steve or Master Chief x5
 

SharkLord

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Pangaea, 250 MYA
It appears Layton is, as I suspected, lesser-known around these parts. Intro time.
Professor Hershel Layton
I don't know much about the series and it's pretty late where I am, so I can't do too much of a writeup. Still, I'll see what I can do.
Professor Layton is a series of puzzle games originating on the DS. The games star the titular British gentleman archeologist and his apprentice Luke. The game works in a point-and-click style formula, where you interact with the screen and activate various puzzles that you must solve. I'm not too knowledgeable on his abilities, but apparently he's a skillet fencer and one of the best combatants in the series, and pulls off weird **** like a coin-slot machine gun. Also, apparently all the weird stuff he comes across have an even weirder explanation, so the big dog you just pet was actually a tiny dog that appeared big because of a hologram beamed from a satellite in orbit around the planet. Yeah. Can't really say no to that.

As for the impact, it's Level-5's best-selling game, the second-best selling third-party on the DS, and is absolutely HUGE in Europe. selling as much there as the rest of the world combined. I suppose that makes sense, seeing as it stars a British guy and all.

Chance is 40%, Want is 55%.

And now for someone we all know about already.
Steve? (Question mark mandatory)
Chance: 75=0%. Minecraft is undeniably HUGE. It is the best-selling game in the world, it absolutely dominated the internet back in the day and is still going strong, and it's so big it even gets used in schools. Plus, it opened the doors to getting Banjo and Kazooie in Smash. The only thing holding him back is that Banjo's inclusion and Resident Evil's Spirit Event proves that size isn't everything, but he's still got it pretty good.
Something to note is that with the addition of Small Battlefield, we could get a solo Minecraft stage with no Steve?. However, there's a couple unanswered questions too many for that, so I can't give any input on that matter.

Want: 80%. I was born and raised on Minecraft. I simply cannot say no. Besides, Minecraft has a lot of unique stuff to pull from. He could use some tools for his tilts, grab with the fishing rod, and utilize blocks and items for his smashes; For example, his forward smash is a door, his up smash is fireworks, his down smash uses pistons, etc. He'd also inevitably have some sort of block-placing mechanic, which would be pretty sweet. If you want an example of how he could work, there's this to read:

Something I've seen tossed around is that his movements would look unnatural, but would they really? We have Mr. Game & Watch, and even then he doesn't have to be as simplistic as Minecraft. Take the Nether Update trailer, for example.
He can emote and move around freely just fine without resorting to awkward smiles or bending joints.

Predictions:
Rex: 68.54%
Waluigi: 17.29%

Nomination: You know the drill. Klonoa x5.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Steve is also one of the most iconic characters of all time
I dunno if I'd call Steve a character, but yes, he's no doubt iconic. But in no way does that make him a lock over Master Chief, or in general. Clearly Nintendo doesn't mind overlooking iconic characters, given the roster as it is, and the Microsoft character that we did get.
This interview shows that minecraft was an influence to botw
That's cool, I didn't know that. Still doesn't change the fact that its influence is way oversold imo
 

Simnm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
295
I dunno if I'd call Steve a character, but yes, he's no doubt iconic. But in no way does that make him a lock over Master Chief, or in general. Clearly Nintendo doesn't mind overlooking iconic characters, given the roster as it is, and the Microsoft character that we did get.

That's cool, I didn't know that. Still doesn't change the fact that its influence is way oversold imo
Steve is clearly a character no matter how generic he is not that it really matters that much or anything.the reason id argue that he is a lock or close to it is that minecraft content is something that they would want to get in smash since minecraft is so iconic and people working for nintendo has said how minecraft is influential.
the inclusion of minecraft/steve is quite a lot business benefit over someone masterchief/halo as it would benfit microsoft more than nintendo
Also how is minecraft's influence is oversold?
 

TCT~Phantom

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wait we're rating rex tomorrow? didnt we just do him on the last line up?
Yeah, he was literally the last character before we began this current fixed schedule. But since TCT won't budge from it now, there's no point in arguing about it.
I thought I made it quite clear that complaining about the fixed schedule would be seen as off topic discussion And be punished accordingly. You all had your chance to make amendments to the schedule for a week and did not. I hope this complaining after I very explicitly said that doing so especially now was worth it.
 
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fogbadge

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I thought I made it quite clear that complaining about the fixed schedule would be seen as off topic discussion And be punished accordingly. You all had your chance to make amendments to the schedule for a week and did not. I hope this complaining after I very explicitly said that doing so especially now was worth it.
Sorry i wasnt meaning to complain i was just surprised
 
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GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
10,169
Steve is clearly a character no matter how generic he is not that it really matters that much or anything.the reason id argue that he is a lock or close to it is that minecraft content is something that they would want to get in smash since minecraft is so iconic and people working for nintendo has said
No franchise is a lock, no matter how big or iconic it is. We've seen it with Resident Evil being Spirited, we've seen it with Tekken getting nothing but a Mii Costume, hell, we've seen it with Halo and Minecraft getting skipped over in favor of Banjo-Kazooie. If you think any big franchise is guaranteed a spot then you haven't been paying attention.
the inclusion of minecraft/steve is quite a lot business benefit over someone masterchief/halo as it would benfit microsoft more than nintendo
Not that I know how Microsoft would benefit, if anything it's Halo that needs the promotion, but that doesn't matter at all. Nintendo's choosing the characters, and they aren't going to pick out of anything but self-interest.
 

Lionfranky

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Not that I know how Microsoft would benefit, if anything it's Halo that needs the promotion, but that doesn't matter at all. Nintendo's choosing the characters, and they aren't going to pick out of anything but self-interest.
If Microsoft offered Master Chief on top of Banjo, would Nintendo say no?
 

GoodGrief741

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Messages
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If Microsoft offered Master Chief on top of Banjo, would Nintendo say no?
I guess it would depend on various factors, like licensing costs, or if Sakurai thinks he could make a moveset for him. My instincts say they'd agree to it, but who knows. Though from what we know, it's not the third parties who choose their characters, it's Nintendo, so I don't know how plausible this scenario is.
 
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fogbadge

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I guess it would depend on various factors, like licensing costs, or if Sakurai thinks he could make a moveset for him. My instincts say they'd agree to it, but who knows. Though from what we know, it's not the third parties who choose their characters, it's Nintendo, so I don't know how plausible this scenario is.
thats true, as far as we know only one person has ever approached sakurai about their character and it worked
 
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