Rate Their Chances - Smash Ultimate Day 523: The Stretchers (The Stretchers)

Inue Houji

Smash Rookie
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12
Monster Hunter

Chance: 40%
Monster Hunter is one of the IPs everyone talks about nowadays when it comes to Smash discussion. It's a long lasting series, enjoying mainstream game popularity in Japan, and recently had a breakout hit internationally with World.

The series already has a history on various Nintendo consoles, and is now slated for not only one, but two exclusives on the Switch. Nintendo's marketing department is clearly pushing these a lot, and what better way to market it than their own gaming hall-of-fame?

Though it should be mentioned that the developers have turned down having the Hunter in fighting games in the past, with MvC3. Reportedly, the same thing happened with MvCInfinite, but got overruled by Capcom, though I can't find the source for this.
Other than that, the only thing really holding it back is the fact that it hasn't already happened.

Want: 25%
Though I have played World, I can't really say I have much of a desire for a Hunter. I generally dislike avatar characters because they usually lack personality and flair, and the Hunter has none of those. The only thing the hunter has going for gameplay-wise is the variety of armors and weapons, but I have a feeling it would be too much work to implement more than a few(unless they go the Byleth route, in which case, meh). I know the games have had some great music, so there's that at least. Overall, I wouldn't be disappointed if we were to get a MH character, but they would be far from my first choice.

Prediction: Lu Bu - 13%

Nominate
Adol Christin x10
 
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Calamitas

Smash Champion
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Monkey Hunter

Chance: 50%

Alright, this rating is admittedly a bit of a cop-out. But honestly, with Monster Hunter, I'm really drawing a blank for the most part. One the one hand, Rathalos is already a boss fight, we have two tracks, and the Mii costumes could just as easily return with another future DLC character, just as the ones for Heihachi and Gil have. On the other hand, Monster Hunter is absolutely ****ing massive, has a major upcoming game, and even had its own dedicated Direct for a new game just a couple of weeks ago despite being a third-party series. A very easy case could be made for Monster Hunter - the character - being in a similar boat to the situation that Hero was in for the first pass, but I still wouldn't call him a lock by any stretch of the imagination. Thus, 50%.

Want: 10%
Normally I wouldn't give a rating for this sort of character, since I never actually touched a Monster Hunter game in my life. . . but since this is a Capcom character, I'm gonna disregard that personal rule for once. Getting them wouldn't be the end of the world for me, and could even be pretty cool. But I highly doubt that we'd get more than one Capcom character in this pass. So if Monster Hunter made it in, that'd be pretty much it for Amaterasu and Phoenix Wright. And since I very much prefer either of those. . . yeah.

Nominating Concept: A Bravely Default character x10.

Predicting Lu Bu to get around 12.84%.
 
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Ridrool64

Smash Lord
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1,212
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The Hunt

Chance: 30%. Monster Hunter's pros have already been said; it's massive, especially in Japan, it's getting a lot of attention from Nintendo other series don't (a dedicated Direct, for one) and it all and all just makes sense. But I think between Byleth sniping the most obvious catching feature of the Hunter, the looming threat of the Mii Costumes (especially since they're the only Capcom-stumes yet to return), and the general competition within Capcom the Hunter is nowhere near a lock or anything of the sort. I also think they might be too big (in the promotional sense, not the Ridley way; I'm saying this character would probably cost a lot to negotiate for, and then produce in the game, and that might be a tall order for a team that just got done with making Steve) for the later slots, though I'm willing to entertain them for 8. Past 9, though, the Hunter is toast.

That being said, in the next Smash game, keep an eye on this guy as I'd be going drastically higher. Probably gonna happen at some point, I just don't think now is the time. Base game newcomer for Ultimate's sequel/follow-up/successor, or at least DLC newcomer then? Extremely likely, high 70's at worst.

Want: 20%. I did not like the Switch Monster Hunter demo, series just wasn't for me at the time. I'm willing to give it another shot (what's the best one?), but right now I can't say I'd really give a **** if the Hunter happened. It'd be neat, I'd be happy for the fans, maybe I'll like how they'll play but there's very few characters that those points wouldn't apply to. So, hm.

Arle and CJ x 5 each. Lu Bu is a real dude, and considering that may be problematic for Dynasty Warriors to some, I will go with 10.33%.
 

Sari

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Can someone enlighten me on why Monster Hunter would be too similar to Byleth? A lot of people are saying this but really all it's doing is giving me "Banjo would be too similar to Duck Hunt" vibes.

I know both Byleth and Monster Hunter use different weapons and all, but I feel like there are so many mechanics/features from MH that them being too similar shouldn't even be a question.
 

Calamitas

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Can someone enlighten me on why Monster Hunter would be too similar to Byleth? A lot of people are saying this but really all it's doing is giving me "Banjo would be too similar to Duck Hunt" vibes.

I know both Byleth and Monster Hunter use different weapons and all, but I feel like there are so many mechanics/features from MH that them being too similar shouldn't even be a question.
I think part of the reason why it's so widespread is because Imran Khan (or some other insider person) dismissed Monster Hunter on the basis of them being similar to Byleth.
 

Ridrool64

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It's less that they can't be distinct from Byleth, and more that their first big selling point, the one in all the movesets prior to January 2020, the fact that they could use a bunch of weapons at once, was done already.

It can be made up, no doubt. Monster Hunter has a lot more than that. But it just adds to that feeling of "it's not time yet", at least in my case.
 

fogbadge

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It's less that they can't be distinct from Byleth, and more that their first big selling point, the one in all the movesets prior to January 2020, the fact that they could use a bunch of weapons at once, was done already.

It can be made up, no doubt. Monster Hunter has a lot more than that. But it just adds to that feeling of "it's not time yet", at least in my case.
surely the MH would be as much about setting traps as using weapons?
 

Sari

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Monster Hunter

Chance: 35%

Pros:
  • Monster Hunter has always been popular in Japan while Monster Hunter World is Capcom's best-selling game ever. Getting a character in Smash could be that final push they need for MH to become a staple to the West.
  • The Monster Hunter series got a ton of focus in the recent Partner Showcase. It reminded me of the treatment Dragon Quest got in early 2019 prior to Hero's reveal. This further gives me a feeling that Nintendo wants to make this series even bigger.
  • Series has a strong history with Nintendo (one big advantage over fellow Capcom character Dante). Monster Hunter Tri, 4, and Rise are Nintendo exclusives while MH4 even got Mario and Animal Crossing costumes.
  • While it might not amount to anything in the end, I do find it interesting how the Monster Hunter series has its own series name in the music files. Maybe they were (or are) planning to expand it?
Cons:
  • Competition with other Capcom characters.
  • Monster Hunter has base game content in the form of the Rathalos assist trophy/boss and 2 songs. While I do think that series with base game content have a chance for this pass (see Min Min), there's a chance that Nintendo/Sakurai would want to focus on an unrepresented Capcom series instead.
  • The 2 Monster Hunter Mii Costumes from SSB4 are still MIA. At this rate it's looking that most if not all of them will be returning and I can easily see that happening to Monster Hunter.
  • Travis getting costume'd reminded everyone that just because you have a new game worthy of a promotion doesn't mean you're getting in.

I can't think of any other character that has so many things going for and against it at the same time. If it wasn't for the base game content and Mii Costume situation then I'd be willing to give Monster Hunter around a 50% chance. Either way, I think additional Monster Hunter content is inevitable for Smash as a whole someday with how big the series has been growing.

One thing I can say with full confidence: If we don't get a Monster Hunter character then the MH Mii Costumes from SSB4 are absolutely returning.

Want: Abstain
I haven't gotten into the Monster Hunter series yet. That will probably change next year since I'm interested in Monster Hunter Stories 2 (and possibly Rise), but for now I won't give a want rating.

-----

Lu Bu chance prediction: 2.50%

Nominations:
Ok I think my chance section was long enough for the extra noms so I'll nom the following:

BotW Zelda x5
Concept: The remaining SSB4 DLC Mii Costumes return (or get the deluxe treatment) x5

To clarify the second rating, I'm referring to the following SSB4 costumes:
  • Lloyd
  • Geno
  • 2 Monster Hunter costumes
  • Chocobo hat
For this concept to happen, all of the above costumes have to return from SSB4. If instead their costumes get an upgrade (example: deluxe Geno costume) then it still counts.
 
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Sid-cada

Smash Lord
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Jan 19, 2013
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1,630
Monster Hunter

Chance - 45% - Once I heard that there is a view that whoever gets Monster Hunter on their console is views as winning the console wars in Japan. Considering that Nintendo is pushing Monster Hunter now, I can we an easy argument for promotional reasons. The Mii costume still hags in the balance, and the base game content raises question marks, but those aren't deal breakers right now, and in my view they are the most likely Capcom characters to get in the game.

Want - 75% - Hey, I'm for it. Monster Hunter feels like a character that makes a decent amount of sense. I would take them over a number of third parties, which is more than I can say for most.


Nominations

Arle Nadja X5
 

Autumn Breeze

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Monster Hunter

Chance: 65%
Extremely likely character in my eyes. A massive franchise in Japan with a couple Switch exclusives that Nintendo has been pushing should immediately bring Hero and DQ11S to mind. The series is already in Sakurai’s mind in relation to Smash as well given Rathalos. The fact we haven’t seen their Mii Costumes so far raises some eyebrows; you’d feel like they would’ve already returned by now given the fact we’ve had Rathalos for a couple years now, unless they were being saved to return alongside a playable MH. Honestly don’t see much holding them back.

Want: Abstain
Literally my only connection to the series is the Dragalia Lost collab which is uhhh, not much to vase an opinion on. I am intrigued by Rise though; might pick that up around launch.
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
Abstain for today. I'm one of the few who haven't yet got into Monster Hunter and am too busy to do the research today. Rise looks really good though.

Incidentally to the MH fans; would you recommend Switch's Generations for a newcomer to the series?

Prediction:
Lu Bu: 5.3%

Nominations:
Impa(Age of Calamity) X 5
 

Rikarte

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Incidentally to the MH fans; would you recommend Switch's Generations for a newcomer to the series?
I'd say wait until Rise comes out and play that one first. Generations Ultimate features a highly customizable playstyle yet doesn't really explain much so all the options might be a little overwhelming for new players.
 

Louie G.

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It's less that they can't be distinct from Byleth, and more that their first big selling point, the one in all the movesets prior to January 2020, the fact that they could use a bunch of weapons at once, was done already.
I've seen this said a lot, but I've never really got it.

I get the whole thing about how Byleth's moveset could have worked on a Monster Hunter (although there are also like, 10 other movesets that can be made for a MH but I digress)... but Byleth is hardly the only character in the game who uses a bunch of weapons. Byleth is pretty standard as far as DLC characters are concerned really, they only particularly stand out as super "unique" up against other Fire Emblem characters who are limited to a single weapon.

But you could go as far back as saying Link uses a variety of weapons (sword, hookshot, boomerang, bombs) or Pit post-Uprising (bow, arms, orbitars...) or even Mr. Game & Watch or Villager if you really want to stretch it- this isn't an incredibly groundbreaking idea. Oh, even Steve now. He's actually sorta got the same thing going on where some weapons are tied to certain directional inputs.

Besides, I really don't think that's the biggest of Nintendo's concerns. They pick the characters from a business perspective, for any variety of reasons but the corporate Nintendo dudes who are deciding the characters are not the ones who need to be creative. It's Sakurai who takes the character and makes something fresh and original out of it. And it's hard to imagine that he couldn't come up with something distinct for Monster Hunter of all franchises.
 
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Sari

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Day over.

Rate Lu Bu from Romance of the Three Kingdoms/Dynasty Warriors.

Predict Concept: Deltarune content.

Today is the last day you can affect the top 7 spots on the nomination list so use your noms wisely.

Megadoomer Megadoomer

-----

Some songs to get into the Lu Bu mood:

 

CheeseAnton

Smash Cadet
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Oct 1, 2020
Messages
30
Abstain. I never heard of the series or name once.


Deltarune Content: 1.94%

Noms:
Dwight Fairfield x5
 

fogbadge

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im gonna abstain ive only ever play HW and FEW and unlike with yesterday i dont think i know enough to rate

nominate chibi-robo x5
 

Louie G.

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LU BU

Chance: 2.5%

Under normal circumstances I think Dynasty Warriors makes a good deal of sense for Smash - it's Koei Tecmo's most popular series last I checked and the series has branched off into spin-offs that even feature Nintendo franchises such as Zelda and Fire Emblem. The major downside, of course, is that the characters of the original Dynasty Warriors games are based off of historical figures. Lu Bu is a real actual Chinese military general, fictionalized for Dynasty Warriors, but calling into question how "ok" Smash would be with that sort of character being playable.

We have Dr. Kawashima as an AT, so that's probably our most practical frame of reference. I'm not an expert on Dynasty Warriors, or ancient Chinese history for that matter, but I think it goes without saying that the character differs a good bit from the real Lu Bu to tell a more captivating, exaggerated story suited for a video game. So there's a little bit of a weird line here that I can't confidently say would matter one way or the other.

But even ignoring this potential obstacle, Lu Bu has major competition in the form of Ryu Hayabusa. Not only does Hayabusa have a deeper legacy on Nintendo and is significantly more popular among Smash's core audience, but he's arguably the closest Koei Tecmo has to a "face". He has his own series in Ninja Gaiden and guest appearances in both Dead or Alive and Warriors games, making him a more prominent character across the company's entire history and far and away the most obvious choice for their Smash representative, if they were to have one (I think they will).

I can potentially see Dynasty Warriors getting acknowledged through Mii Costumes, but I believe that's the most Lu Bu will reasonably get. I'm confident that Koei Tecmo is getting some content one way or another.

Want: 30%
I haven't played Dynasty Warriors nor do I know too much about it. I do know that Lu Bu is among one of my friends' MWs so I would be happy for him. I'd be a little confused and a bit sad if Hayabusa was skipped over at this point though.

Prediction: Deltarune Content - 5.25%

Nominations: Billy & Jimmy x5
 

DrifloonEmpire

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2019
Messages
1,049
Lu Bu

Chance: 10% -
A lot like his buddy Ryu Hayabusa, Lu Bu makes a lot of sense for Smash. Koei Tecmo has a fantastic relationship with Nintendo, Dynasty Warriors 9 is on the Switch, and the two have collaborated on many Warriors-esque titles like Fire Emblem Warriors and Hyrule Warriors. So if anything, Lu Bu's franchise directly plays into the relationship and has had an impact on Nintendo's own games (similar to how Skyrim plays into the Nintendo-Bethesda relationship). Plus we have both Dr. Kawashima as an assist trophy and even after that Lu Bu is different enough from his historical counterpart to avoid that problem. Honestly, I'd be surprised if Koei Tecmo didn't receive a character at all, all of the check marks are there!

The only real issue is competition with Ryu Hayabusa, with rumors that some Ninja Gaiden games are coming to Switch, but it's the suits at Nintendo who are picking the characters for the most part (while Ryu Hayabusa feels more like a Sakurai pick, Though Sakurai could still try and influence the decision). With how succesful the Warriors-esque games have been for Nintendo, it might make more sense for them to represent the parent franchise.

Want: 30% - Not a franchise I have experience with so I can't give it a massive score. However, Lu Bu's got a cool design, Dynasty Warriors has some great music, and I think he'd work well in Smash! Plus his franchise is now on Nintendo systems which is a huge plus in my book. While if I were choosing a real life figure for Smash I'd pick Gandhi (to represent the Civilization series), Lu Bu has certainly earned it and I'd have no qualms with him joining the roster. Plus I don't have any favorites within Koei Tecmo so a lack of inter company competition is a plus. While Lu Bu wouldn't be one of my personal choices for a Smash rep, he'd definitely still be a welcome one!


Nominations:
Don-chan x5
Neptune x5

Predictions:
Deltarune Content - 5.82% - Not expecting a lot of confidence since we already got Sans, and Deltarune Part 2 is still unknown so no sense in promoting it yet.
 

BowserKing

Smash Ace
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winnipeg
Lu Bu

Chance: 5%. If we are to get a Koei Techmo rep, it would be Ryu Hayabusa, but then again, we have been surprised by the multiple fighter’s before. But if he where to show up, he would be a spirit or a Mii Costume. That is all I got to say about it.

Want: 50%. I don’t know too much about Dynasty Warriors, next I prefer it if Hayabusa got in first, but he would still be a fun fighter to play as. Overall, he would be an decent choice for Smash Bros.

Prediction; Deltarune Content (5%)

Noms: 5 for Concept: Second F-Zero Rep
 

amageish

Smash Lord
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Jul 21, 2018
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1,752
Lu Bu

Chance: 10%. Plausible pick is plausible. Koei and Nintendo are very close companies and Koei just keeps on making games/parts-of-games for Nintendo. And, yet, it only has a franchise co-owned with Nintendo in Smash. This was weird when speculation began and is still weird now. Arguably weirder, when companies like Arc System Works and Bethesda have gotten (non-character) content in Smash since... Obviously there are a lot of options within Koei, notably the ninja himself, but Warriors is a long-running franchise that has only been growing in mainstream notoriety due to its recent crossovers. Dynasty Warriors is also getting a new game itself next year, so lots of marketing potential + a large legacy to draw from.

I do also feel like a Warriors character could easily mess with conventional Smash button imputs in the way that Min Min and Steve do, so it'd be a well-suited franchise of choice if that's our latest trend... I'm not saying it would be messing with button imputs in a way that a majority of Smash fans would approve of, but... you know. Still. It's something.

As for his historicity... Sure, Lu Bu is a historical figure, but I feel like we're enough layers deep at this point that it doesn't matter. We're talking about a spin-off of a game loosely based on a historical text that is most famous as a novel (side-note: I didn't realize the game series Romance of the Three Kingdoms is actually named Record of the Three Kingdoms in Japanese/Chinese, but I suppose that it makes sense that they went with the novel's title in English as its more marketable over here). Like, would it be a new precedent? Sure, but it's not like Pit paved the way for Zeus to be in the game and I don't expect Lu Bu would lead to Smash Bros becoming a history-themed crossover either... It'd just make something for Sakurai to make a joke about in his Presentation...

Like with... literally every character there is... the problem is competition. Within Koei, within other third-parties, within gaming in general, etc etc...

Want: 80%. I'd be pretty happy with this outcome! I definitely prefer Warriors games when they're playing around with Zelda or Dragon Quest or Fire Emblem or Persona (insert meme about waiting for localizations here), but I'd take the original as well.

Noms: Jill Stingray Mii Costume x 10
Predictions: deltarune Content? 10%...
 

DanganZilla5

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
879
Dynasty Warriors Gundam

Chance: 25%

I do feel that Dynasty Warriors is a bit underrated in Smash speculation. It is Koei Tecmo's most successful franchise with 21 million copies sold worldwide. It has a long history dating back to 1997, and since then has been on multiple Nintendo systems and has been a big part of the hack and slash genre. Koei Tecmo is one of those companies that is ripe for getting a character thanks to their history with Nintendo and the strong bond they have as Koei Tecmo continues to make games for Nintendo, with Age of Calamity being their next anticipated game.

My two concerns are competition and the nature of Lu Bu. I do think Ryu Hayabusa is more likely with him being a NES icon, but what really tanks my score is that Lu Bu is based on a real life person. I will give him the benefit of the doubt since Dr. Kawashima is an assist trophy and the Dynasty Warriors version of Lu Bu has some things to separate himself from his real life counterpart. But I have a gut feeling this might lean too much on the 4th party side for Sakurai's liking. I still think he has a good shot though.

Want: 70%

It's funny, I am a fan of the Dynasty Warriors style of gameplay but I haven't actually played any of the mainline games. The only Warriors games I've played are DW Gundam and a little bit of Fire Elmblem Warriors. With that said, I have watched a youtuber who has reviewed all of the mainline games and I do want to play one of them eventually. I do like the style of the games and the music is rad. I imagine the moveset will be based around combos and flashy super moves which will separate Lu Bu from all the other sword users. And even then, I'm pretty sure he uses other weapons too.

So yeah, even without much personal history I would still like to see a Dynasty Warriors character make it in. The series certainly deserves it and the gameplay could translate well to Smash.

Prediction: deltarune content - 14%

Noms: Arthur x10
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,464
Remember: today's the last day you can affect the top seven. It's still anyone's game, so use them wisely!

Billy Hatcher x245
Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA x230
Sakura Shinguji x225
Zelda (BotW universe) x220
The Stretchers x210
Concept: Content from currently unreleased game (not Spirit Events) (as of May 17th 2020) x205
Amiya (Arknights) x205

200 - 151

Hades (Kid Icarus) x200
Mii Costume: Jill Stingray x189
Alex Mason x185
Concept: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon content x171
Neptune (Hyperdimension Neptunia) x175
Concept: A Bravely Default character x170
Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins) x170

150 - 101

[Rerate] Frisk x150
Concept: A Microsoft rep that isn't Steve or Master Chief x145
Impa (Age of Calamity) x135
Red (Angry Birds) x125
D.Va x115
[Rerate] Maxwell x110
Adol Christin x105

100 - 51

Echo: Coco (Crash) x100
Zero (Mega Man) x95
Concept: Second F-Zero rep x94
Mii Costume: Alex Kidd x93
Boss: Ender Dragon x83
Stage: Bowser's Castle x81
Concept: Darksiders rep x80
Sackboy x80
Riptor x80
[Rerate] Chibi-Robo x80
Miriam x80
Fulgore x79
Concept: More ATs as one new item x75
[Rerate] Concept: Boss Rush x70
Concept: Rocket League rep x70
Dwight Fairfield (Dead by Daylight) x70
Hajime Hinata x70
Giygas x65
Boss: Rayquaza x60
Concept: SNES-era Final Fantasy rep x55
Concept: Fortnite character x55
Gooigi x55
Vi (Bug Fables) x55
Echo (Olimar) x51

50 - 25

Echo: Zeraora (Lucario) x50
[Rerate] Jin Kazama x50
Magolor x50
John Marston x50
Jin Sakai x50
[Rerate] Monokuma x50
Ghirahim x50
[Rerate] The Knight x40
Don-chan x40
[Rerate] Concept: New Zelda character x30
[Rerate] Arle Nadja x30

Under 25

Ryza (Atelier) x20
Carl Johnson x20
Tetra x15
Yarn Yoshi x15
Tetris x10
Qbby x10
Cynthia (Pokémon) x5
Concept: Rocket League content x5
[Rerate] Thrall x5
Stage: Tetris x5
[Rerate] Agumon x5
[Rerate] Lara Croft x5
Echo (Bowser) x5
Concept: A Challenger Pack with 2 Fighters x5
Billy & Jimmy Lee x5
Concept: The remaining SSB4 DLC Mii Costumes return (or get the deluxe treatment) x5

Jason Frudnick & SOPHIA dig under Sakura Shinguji and emerge in second place. Amiya shoots past 200 noms and ties with Content from currently unreleased game for sixth place.

Adol Christin cuts through 100 noms.

Arle Nadja pops up at over 25 noms.

Today's new nominees, all with 5 noms, are Billy & Jimmy Lee, the concepts A Challenger Pack with 2 Fighters and The remaining SSB4 DLC Mii Costumes return (or get the deluxe treatment), and an Echo for Bowser.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
2,254
Abstain. I know nothing about Dynasty Warriors. That being said, if for some reason we can't get Hayabusa, I think it'd be one of the more likely alternatives.

Nominations: Billy Hatcher x5
 

Blankiturayman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
380
Fully abstaining for today, I'm not well-versed at all in this series to say. My only experience with it is Hyrule Warriors, lol, and I'm not sure how much that counts. Not much in the mood to research it at the moment either.

Nomination: Adol Christin x5
Prediction: 12% for Deltarune content
 

TCT~Phantom

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TCT~Phantom
Lu Bu

1% Chance

TBH, this is more of a Dynasty Warriors ranking as a whole.

Lu Bu is certainly one of the more dynamic characters from Dynasty Warriors. Heck, in Chinese history, he is a backstabbing warlord who fought for so many different sides. And that is the problem. Lu Bu... is a real person. While Brain Age does show Smash might have a real person in it as an AT, there is basically no precedent for a real person being in Smash, historical or not. I really doubt that we will dip into real life people yet.

Then there is the issue of Koei Tecmo. Ryu Hayabusa is a huge hurdle. Ninja Gaiden is an iconic NES franchise. There is a reason everyone and their mother expects Hayabusa and he is one of the most talked about characters for speculation. Then there is Dead or Alive, which also could be seen as competition.

Dynasty Warriors is big, the fact we have Hyrule Warriors, FE Warriors, and Hyrule Warriors AoC is a big deal. But the hurdle of being real people and the hurdle of Koei Tecmo competition is a bad sign.

0% Want

The rage I have that we have no Donkey Kong Warriors never ceases.

Ok but in all seriousness, I really do not like the idea of a real person, historical, exaggerated, or living, being playable in smash. I think this is one of those lines that I really would prefer not to cross and take the genie out of the bottle. Putting someone that is arguably a non video game character due to their historical origins takes the genie out of the bottle for non video game characters as a whole.

Now I know some people tend to think Smash should only be about Nintendo all stars. Those people are wrong, it stopped being about that in Brawl. But what Smash has evolved into is the greatest crossover in video game history. I will dig my heels in the ground on this, I want it to stay that way. I know in the past I rated Lucas from the Wizard as a joke, but I would in Smash Ultimate dig my heels.

If we wanted Warriors representation, I would prefer it be something towards Hyrule Warriors anyway.

Coco as Crash's Echo/Costume x 10
 

3DSNinja

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,304
abstaining, but I do agree about us needing Donkey Kong Warriors, even if it is a joke. Unfortuately, haven't played the non FE and Zelda Warriors titles.
Nominations: Hajimeme Hinata x5
 

BlueEyedGrimmbat

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
69
Imagine being so dangerous, all 3 kingdoms want you dead... (Lu Bu)
Chance: 5%

My money's on Hayabusa, or it might also be Zhao Yun. I know it probably won't be Lu Bu.

The way I see it, Koei Tecmo's bound to get someone into Smash sooner or later. They've had a good relationship with Nintendo in the past, having made not one but two Warriors spin-offs for Nintendo's franchises. Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden also has advantage of legacy, not just on Nintendo consoles but overall. Dynasty Warriors, however, is more popular.

Both Nintendo and Koei are more likely to go for the main protagonist, however, and if Dynasty Warriors had a main protagonist it'd be Zhao Yun. Not Lu Bu.

Want: 10%

Get this: I'm a closet Three Kingdoms fan. That doesn't mean I support Lu Bu, and the reason for that is simple - I would much, much rather have Zhao Yun in. Koei definitely deserves to have a rep, and I'd be happy if it was Hayabusa or Zhao Yun.

But not Lu Bu. I'm not pursuing him, not this time.

Noms: Amiya x10
chimera.PNG

Amiya will automatically be retreated
Uh oh.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
56,081
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Ganondorf

Chance: 1% Dynasty Warriors is huge, easily one of Koei's most wellknown franchises alongside Ninja Gaiden, Dead Or Alive and Fatal Frame, so much so that if I'm not mistaken, it's Koei's best selling franchise. While Lu Bu is a real life historical figure, I fail to see how this matters when we have Dr. Kawashima and how ye old historical figures are public domain, if a fictional interpretation of a fictional interpretain loosely based off of a real person's already in Smash and a DLC character also bringing in an interpretation of a public domain character, Dracula, Alucard and Arsene, I fail to see the issue with the unique scenario behind Dynasty Warriors. Things aren't all suns and roses however, close ties to Nintendo really don't mean as much as people seem to think and while Dynasty Warriors is Koei's biggest property, we already have cases of Smash bringing a franchise less popular than the owner's best selling property, with Mega Man, Street Fighter and Monster Hunter all having seen content in Smash years before Resident Evil would and Banjo ultimately getting into Smash a year before Steve, especially as Koei also owns Ryu Hayabusa, a character who I feel is more iconic than any of the DW cast. Speaking of the DW cast, Lu Bu may be infamous to the point people all know the meme, he isn't a protagonist, that role belongs to Zhao Yun last I checked

Want: Abstain, I can't form an opinion as I don't know enough about the Three Kingdoms or Dynasty Warriors

Miriam x10
 
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waddledeeonredyoshi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
1,229
Location
Duwang
Abstaining completely since I'm fairly unfamiliar with most Koei series and Dynasty Warriors is no different.

Deltarune content: 13.68%
Hades x6
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
3,849
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
Lu Bu

Chance: 2%
If we're getting a Koei Tecmo rep then I'm almost certain it's going to be Ryu Hayabusa. He feels like a more safer pick with Ninja Gaiden being one of the most memorable NES titles. Dynasty Warriors is big no doubt though I'm not sure if Sakurai would be willing to go through adding a fictionalized character of a real life historical person. Yes we do have the Dr. Kawashima assist trophy but I feel like that's a much different scenario with him being a universally well-liked neuroscientist who is still alive.

Want: Abstain
The only Warriors games I've played are Hyrule and Fire Emblem Warriors. I haven't played any of the main series games so I won't give an exact score. While I would prefer Hayabusa when it comes to Tecmo characters, a stage where you capture control points like in Dynasty Warriors would be cool.

-----

Deltarune content chance prediction: 3.50% (I think more Undertale content would be needed first)

Nominations:
BotW Zelda x5
 

Ridrool64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,212
Location
New Jersey
Lew Boo

Chance: 0%. While I think characters who are realistically designed are eligible, and there might be issues with characters who look a bit much like real life people, characters who straight up ARE their real life counterparts feel like they cross a dark line. And, well, Lü Bu is a historical figure. Long dead, public domain? Yeah, but still, Lü Bu is real and if Sakurai sees it as a personal thing to limit Smash to video games (and R.O.B), then this guy is toast.

Even ignoring that, Dynasty Warriors feels like a series where the idea of representing it in Smash is sound, but you run into a few problems. Who is the rep? Why Lu Bu over... well, anybody else? From the research I've done, he doesn't seem to be a protagonist like... Zhao Yun. If Sans couldn't make it, and Min Min wasn't added for her popularity, I don't see a reason why Lu Bu would be picked. Why Dynasty Warriors over both Dead or Alive or Ninja Gaiden? One is just as much of a staple of gaming, and the other is STILL more iconic after not only a long hibernation but also a second hibernation after that. You could argue that the fact that Warriors games exist for Zelda and Fire Emblem means the series (and/or parent company) is special to Nintendo, and I don't disagree, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a seat in Smash's roster, much less a Challenger Pack.

Want: 5% for himself, but 30% as part of Dynasty Warriors representation. Outside of Fire Emblem Warriors, which was alright but is not a game I'd return to, it's not really anything I care about. But, if people want Dynasty Warriors in enough then I guess we could let it slide.

Deltarune won't break 2.40% because 1. it's not Undertale, 2. most people consider Undertale disqualified, 3. Deltarune is not finished. Arle x 5 and CJ x 5.
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
5,989
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Loo Boo Gachoo
Chance: 10%

I hear what you are all saying about 'real historical figures' but Lu Bu is about as realistic a depiction of the actual Lu Bu as Mario is of Mario Segale the man he was named after, or Dr. Kawashima is as a giant floating head that shoots math problems at you or Castelvania's Dracula is of Attila the Hun(no really, he's a descendant in the books).

Dynasty Warrior's Lu Bu is based off the Three Kingdoms novel, who in turn is a romanticised version of the real Lü Bu, an army general from 181 AD China.

In real life it is said he was indeed a mighty warrior but tempermental, incapable of planning, a womaniser and had a nasty habit of backstabbing everyone he came across for his own gain. As he was about to be killed he attempted to talk his way out of it.

The Lu Bu of Dynasty Warriors also isn't great at planning, but listens to his strategist well, he is known for being so strong he can solo armies on his own, and is hopelessly devoted to the woman he loves Diaochan(who didn't actually exist as far as we can tell). In his own storymode in DW8 Xtreme Legends he unites China by stating anyone who is unhappy with the way he runs things is free to challenge him to a one on one fight to become the leader.

These two depictions are honestly very different, and I feel Lu Bu of DW fame is far enough removed from the real life Han Dynasty general to get at least a consideration...and I think he's also the character KT would put forward if they were going to use any of their (very successful) warriors cast members. Heck, Lu Bu and Lü Bu's names are even subtly different :p.

Want: 60%
I'm pretty late to the DW fanbase. I've played Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors and One Piece Pirate Warriors in the past, but I'm ashamed to say I've only just picked up the series this year...and it's frigging great.

I've only played the aforementioned Dynasty Warriors 8 Xtreme Legends, but in that time I'll admit I've grown a soft spot for Lu Bu. He's not usually the type of character I like, and he's not my favourite from the series, but you do feel insanely overpowered whilst playing him.

If you've tried Hyrule Warriors, I'd absolutely recommend giving this one a go next time it's on sale in the eshop. The story might be a little hard to follow at first, but I can absolutely see why Dynasty Warriors took off in the way it did.

Nominations: Deltarune: 0.5% If Undertale couldn't get a fighter...

Nominations: Impa(Age of Calamity) X 10
 
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fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
11,001
Location
Scotland
To make things clear since I'm suprised it's being predicted so low, "Deltarune content" wouldn't have to mean something as major as a challenger pack. It can also refer to simple things like Mii costumes or Spirits. I'm starting to think it might've been a better idea to just nom "Deltarune Mii costumes" instead
i think they know that
 

BernkastelWitch

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 20, 2019
Messages
410
Lu Bu.

Chance: 15%.

Dynasty Warriors basically created one of Koei's more lucrative subgenres with Musous and in that sense, it has a strong legacy there. Musou is a genre that has untapped potential for Smash and would be good for it to have some representation in some form. Lu Bu is the most iconic character from Dynasty Warriors and even from his source material. before people can say "Lu Bu existed so he shouldn't count", DW Lu Bu is so far removed from the Historical Lu Bu that Koei's Lu Bu is basically an over the top Anime character and it is glorious.

That said, the main obstacle Lu Bu has is well.... Ryu Hayabusa. Until Hayabusa finds himself in the roster, any Non Ninja Gaiden Koei reps are very unlikely. If he gets in and in a hypothetical Season 3 pass or a new Smash game or whatever happens, I can see Koei allowing a second character to come in which will raise Lu Bu's chance. Of course there's also the possibility both Nintendo and Koei want to toss us a curve ball, which is unlikely but still possible. But yeah, once Hayabusa gets in, Lu Bu's chances for future installments will rise up.


Want: 80%

I enjoy Dynasty Warriors a whole lot and Lu Bu is one of those bizarre wanted characters I like. In a way I kind of want him a bit more than Hayabusa and I can see him be fun to play as. There's other Dynasty Warriors you can choose but everyone I know Lu Bu first and foremost and for good reason: He is one of the most fun characters to play as in DW and his scenarios are interesting. I'd vouch for him if I could.
 
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