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[Pacack]

Hmm...
To me, Rosalina and Greninja are the most appealing characters moveset-wise.
I'll be maining them.
Just because unlikely characters got in Smash, doesn't mean they're worthless.
I actually love all of the newcomers so far. It's some of the veterans that bug me.

I perfectly respect that opinion. But I feel about Greninja how I felt about Roy. Added in only for promotional purposes and not at all deserving of being in Nintendo's all-star cast. But at least Roy was a clone that didn't take much time to develop. Greninja is significantly more work for what was, in my opinion, an incredibly uninteresting and undeserving character.

If I may ask, what veterans do you have issues with?

 

[Erimir]

Greninja

+ + + He looks like he could be fun to play as. Sheik was my main in Melee, so I appreciate the ninja-like fighters.
+ Water types are cool

+/- Squirtle is basically deconfirmed, but I wasn't that into him anyway
+/- I don't care THAT much about Pokemon reps, so my feelings either way are mitigated.

- - - Flavor of the month. He's not an all-star. Maybe he'll have staying power but who knows.
- - - Not even wanted by many people... certainly not by Smash fans. Very underwhelming compared to other newcomers they could've shown.
- Hurts Jigglypuff's chances as the Pokemon open slots are shrinking. Not by a whole lot, but since Jigglypuff is my favorite non-Pikachu Pokemon in Smash, I am more bothered by it.
- Ivysaur is basically deconfirmed. I like Ivysaur more than Squirtle (Bulbasaur was my starter when I played Pokemon Red). But he was just ok in Brawl, so it's not a huge blow.
- Hurts Mewtwo's chances, who is definitely a more deserving character. But I didn't like playing him in Melee and I'm not that attached personally.
- Feels like a corporate Gamefreak decision for marketing Pokemon, not a decision made for Smash

This is more of a presentation issue than an issue with Greninja himself, but I would've preferred to see a non-Pokemon newcomer. This guy is not the hype-builder that would've really topped off the presentation. I understand they couldn't use Little Mac since he's not that exciting for Japan... Surely they have someone with broader appeal?

Anyway, the gameplay is the most important aspect as aside from Jigglypuff I'm not too attached to Greninja's competitors, and I knew we were likely to get some Pokemon I didn't care about regardless. Overall it's positive. But he does not build my hype much. I'm more psyched for revamped Sheik than Greninja.

Therefore, my satisfaction is 60%.

I like the other newcomers better as characters, but I'm more likely to like playing as Greninja than Villager or Little Mac.

 

[Aqua Rock X]

GRENINJA SATISTISFACTION

100%

I was amazed! It seemed strange to me at first that such a new and non-legendary pokemon would be chosen over the others. But when I saw that gameplay footage...well my score speaks for itself. Aside from Megaman, he's hyped me more than any other newcomer thus far.

I suppose my opininon could change in the future, but as of now he looks fast, wild, and too much fun to ignore! I am seriously considering him as one of my most played characters.To me Greninja is a fine example that a great Smash character doesn't have to be an all-star (as most of those bases are covered anyway), he/she just needs to have an interesting playstyle that fits Sakurai's vision!

It also helps that I always use water-starters in the Pokemon games.

 

[Starbound]

Looking at some of these scores, at least Rosalina won't have the lowest satisfaction anymore. :>

 

[andimidna]

I perfectly respect that opinion. But I feel about Greninja how I felt about Roy. Added in only for promotional purposes and not at all deserving of being in Nintendo's all-star cast. But at least Roy was a clone that didn't take much time to develop. Greninja is significantly more work for what was, in my opinion, an incredibly uninteresting and undeserving character.

If I may ask, what veterans do you have issues with?

Only Toon Link.
-Clone (I already have said here like female+unique characters)
-Reduced chance of Zelda Newcomer (favorite series) significantly
-I have a grudge that never left since his reveal for Brawl... remember when a lot of people supported Midna? And it wasn't pretty much just me? Yea.... he shot that down, and I know this grudge goes against how I think characters should be rated and things like that... but it's something I'm not going to just forget...

Looking at some of these scores, at least Rosalina won't have the lowest satisfaction anymore. :>

We're also re-rating her tomorrow...
And now that Greninja has raised the possibilities of a Mario Newcomer, I think Bowser Jr/Paper Mario/Toad fans will be less angry at her getting "the 5th slot"

A seriously do think a 2nd Mario Newcomer is going to happen now...
Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Charizard, Mewtwo, Lucario, Greninja
I just cannot see them removing igglypuff or not bringing back Mewtwo... makes no sense.
6 Pokemon and 5 Mario also makes no sense.
So I hope fans of other Mario characters will feel more neutral rather than negative this time around.
Since I won't be here I already submitted my score to Groose, 100% :D

the trophy quizzes [I got the Metroid one wrong ]

Same, obviously I screamed Tiki!!!! right away when I saw her.
And yea, all Midna fans know who Fi is, the successor that did not succeed.
And the Pseudotena troll of course!
Very eventful direct for me. My main 4 wants were Midna, Rosalina, Palutena, and Tiki.
Midna confirmed an assist, new info on Rosalina including FS, Palutena strongly hinted playable, Tiki confirmed a trophy.
A lot of people are still very unsure about their most wanted characters, but I pretty much know the fate of all my top picks now.

....GROOSE USED SUBSTITUTE!

​

 

[YoshiandToad]

Greninja
Satisfaction: 100%
In Pokemon X and Y I picked Chespin. I don't really like Ninja characters as an archetype(in fact Sheik's inclusion now transformations are done away with kind of irks me even) and I prefer Squirtle to Greninja any day of the week. Meowth was my most wanted newcomer, but again a Pokeball Assist. That's fine though, I can let it go since it's apparent that only promotional Pokemon are getting in...

Soooo...why 100%?
Because I was one of the very few that felt Brawl + Mewtwo was the most dull outcome we could of gotten.
700+ Pokemon choices and once again we're stuck with the same 5 options that have already been in Smash? Screw that, there's not exactly a shortage of choices now is there? I will miss Squirtle and Ivysaur though. I always preferred them to Zard.

I also like Greninja WAY more than I liked either Jigglypuff and Lucario. He's a starter Pokemon. They're the most iconic Pokemon of each generation as they will be the ones travelling with most people through most their ingame adventures. Jigglypuff meanwhile is STILL unimportant to the Pokemon series regardless of whether she gets in or not, and Lucario at the time of his inclusion in Brawl was just as nonsensical as Greninja is now. With him, he gained some overall importance in X/Y but it was a long time coming.

He also seems to be able to teleport, which considering my favourite Pokemon of all time is Abra(yes Abra, it's cute and surprisingly powerful for a monster that starts with no attacks) this is the closest I'll get to a speedy teleport fighter. Mewtwo in Melee could teleport but it wasn't a focus, nor was he fast.

Things Greninja's inclusion may mean for the rest of the roster:

Selfishly; Takamaru is one of the few characters I don't want, and Greninja frog jumps all over his niche with his water shurikens and water sword. I'm okay with this.

His inclusion also points to possibly giving us 6 official roster slots per series, which with any luck will bumper up Mario to six too. I really don't care at this point if that Mario newcomer would be Bowser Jr, at least it'd give me a Mario character I sort of care one way or the other to look forward to.

Lastly Greninja being in finally gave us our first BIG shock regarding who was likely and who wasn't. Rosalina was a surprise but many weren't expecting a new Mario character to begin with(which actually seems really stupid in hindsight) so whilst Rosalina getting in over the likes of Bowser Jr, Toad, Waluigi and Paper Mario was indeed surprising to Smashboards the fact we got a 5th Mario seemed to be the biggest shock to most people here. Still not a fan of hers though.

Mewtwo was seen as a lock by many, including myself, which lead to stale Roster prediction(Mewtwo, Elite Four and Takamaru + Brawl roster's plagued us for too long). With Greninja's inclusion it proves that Smashboards agreed roster standards may not be the 'safe' ones after all. To me after 9 months of dedicated speculation, that's the most interesting development.

 

[SirPainsalot]

Greninja: 99%
To be frank, the only reason I wasn't hype for Greninja's appearance at first was because I knew people would be mad about it especially after Ridley and others was deconfirmed. Other people not being hype about it kinda makes me unhype.

But I'm over that now and I don't care, so each time I look at his design I'm reminded why I liked it in Pokemon X/Y.

Greninja makes perfect sense and is an excellent surprise fit as a fighter from Gen 6. It's one of those ideas you might think of offhandedly, but then once it actually happens, damn it was actually a great idea! That moveset looks awesome with the animations looking fluid (Substitute is kinda brilliant) and makes me hype for a competitive playstyle you could get out of it. (That aerial combo though. DAir into Back Air, that got me pretty hype). Its long reach when it comes to aerials really fits my Wall of Pain playstyle honestly, so I might actually main him.

Why does he fit in so well though (in my opinion)? First off it's the most popular Gen 6 pokemon by far, not only in Japan but also in America. If a Gen 6 pokemon had to be chosen (and considering the fact that it's the most current gen... it could use actual representation other than mega forms), Greninja really was it. There was no Lucario/Zoroark niche this time around, so why not the most popular new pokemon which also happens to be a starter? Most people who don't know him probably haven't played through the newest Pokemon game completely, which is understandable but not a reason why he doesn't deserve a spot.

I really feel like Greninja is pandering to the people who bought and played Pokemon X/Y as most people who do knows that Greninja is awesome, and that's why I feel like I really enjoy its inclusion overal . Being in Smash kinda pushes its fresh and new design for people who don't play Pokemon to see, so I think that in and of itself is neat. It also serves as a way to convince people to maybe check out the new Pokemon game everyone's been playing, see what's up.
By the way, it's not 100% because Little Mac really was the hypest and the reveal doesn't deserve to be on the same level as Mac Baby punching into Smash. That, I felt, was the pinnacle so far. Everything else is now a neat extra character I get to enjoy. And Greninja seems to be just that.

 

[Pacack]

Only Toon Link.
-Clone (I already have said here like female+unique characters)

Understandable.

-Reduced chance of Zelda Newcomer (favorite series) significantly

I totally get that one, being a fan of the Zelda series myself.

-I have a grudge that never left since his reveal for Brawl... remember when a lot of people supported Midna? And it wasn't pretty much just me? Yea.... he shot that down, and I know this grudge goes against how I think characters should be rated and things like that... but it's something I'm not going to just forget...

This is the main thing I want to address since you mentioned Rosalina in your post too. This is exactly what Toad supporters feel about Rosalina. I get that all hope is not lost, but she was the one who made me give up hope on Toad. I just can't forgive that despite how interesting she is.


I do get your viewpoint more now. Thank you.

 

[andimidna]

This is the main thing I want to address since you mentioned Rosalina in your post too. This is exactly what Toad supporters feel about Rosalina. I get that all hope is not lost, but she was the one who made me give up hope on Toad. I just can't forgive that despite how interesting she is.

Yea, I had forgotten that feeling. (Because I've liked the newcomers of Smash 4)
Midna being out again reminded my how mad I was around Brawl time.
And the fact that she wasn't even an assist... Tingle was.
Even King Bulblin made a stage appearance.
But now she's an assist and I'm fine with that.
Still dislike Toon Link and Tingle though... (sorry to their fans)

I just feel like, Rosalina didn't officially shoot down anybody yet.
I know Midna isn't in Brawl.
But you don't know that a Toad isn't in Smash 4.
I feel like people jumped on the hate train too quick.
But Greninja brings some good news, the possibility of another Mario newcomer because of series balance.

 

[Pacack]

Yea, I had forgotten that feeling. (Because I've liked the newcomers of Smash 4)
Midna being out again reminded my how mad I was around Brawl time.
And the fact that she wasn't even an assist... Tingle was.
Even King Bulblin made a stage appearance.
But now she's an assist and I'm fine with that.
Still dislike Toon Link and Tingle though... (sorry to their fans)

I just feel like, Rosalina didn't officially shoot down anybody yet.
I know Midna isn't in Brawl.
But you don't know that a Toad isn't in Smash 4.
I feel like people jumped on the hate train too quick.
But Greninja brings some good news, the possibility of another Mario newcomer because of series balance.

It could be that we gave up too quickly. I'm not sure. I guess we'll know when the game releases.

(I never believed in the concept of series balance, btw. So no consolation there.)

 

[FalKoopa]

Greninja satisfaction: 60%

I have nothing against him, and I'm actually glad that we actually got a pokémon newcomer. But Greninja is an odd choice, to frank. He definitely is the most popular of the X/Y starters, but it seems too soon for him to be included. Heck, he didn't even exist when Smash 4 began development. He doesn't seem deserving of a spot.

That said, I have absolutely no complaints about his moveset. He's a water pokémon, and looks awesome.

I don't fault him for the jeopardy Ivysaur and Squirtle are finding themselves in, by the way. That is Charizard's fault more that anyone else's.

I think K. Rool, Isaac and Palutena's increased chances largely softened the blow I would have gotten otherwise.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Greninja Satisfaction - 55%

Not a newcomer that hypes me in the slightest. Sure he looks sorta cool but I never wanted him in the first place, Sakurai can make any character look good.

 

[SethTheMage]

Greninja Satisfaction: 100%

Completely came out of left field, and he has a really unique and visually impressive moveset with water swords and ninja techniques. I'm always a big fan of fast paced characters, and Greninja fits the bill perfectly. He is also one of my favorite Gen VI Pokemon, so that's a bonus in his favor. I've said this twice in the Greninja thread already, but if I get the Shiny form as an alt, I might be looking at a potential main if Rosalina doesn't work out (though, that is a very unlikely scenario at this point). Right now, he's looking like a probable secondary.

 

[SmashShadow]

Greninja: 70%
He was my choice of starter and he looks like the ninja I'd want to play more than Sheik. The only reason he loses points is because he's not very established. Unless you've been playing X/Y, you probably have never seen him before. He may be the most popular character in that game but he still pales in comparison to the popularity of some characters. Because of this, I fear that they'll end up cutting him if there's another installment.

Also, I don't see how Mewtwo's chances are effected in any way other than positively.

 

[jaytalks]

greninja satisfaction: 100%

Awesome character. I think we are off in terms of predicting this character because many of assumed that Kalos Trainer had no chance because Pokemon Trainer was returning. Turn out we were both wrong; transformation characters are out. However, people that did suggest Kalos Trainer with Greninja in the rotation deserve some credit.

In considering him being "too soon," remember that Sakurai got a sneak peak on the Pokemon and the Pokemon company suggests to him which pokemon are going to be popular in the coming generation. Sakurai said this way back so the choice isnt out of left field.

In terms of the character's moveset and style, it looks great. I love the Final Smash and the character fits well in the roster. I didn't pick him in pokemon x as my starter, but greninja is definitely the best out of the starters, and the best water starter we have gotten in a while.

Greninja Music!
Defender of Kalos
Surf Theme
Trainer Battle Music
Rival Battle Music
Gym Battle Music

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Greninja: 55%.
Pretty much destroyed Mewtwo's chances, but hey, at least he has a cool moveset, kinda makes up for Squirtle, and probably means GF is doing something with him... hopefully a Mega.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course the second Directory post gets more Likes because a put a pic of Luigi's nose in it!
Greninja Satisfaction has been added to the Directory.

Let me give a proper rating before I rate my Satisfaction for it, OK?
Greninja
Chance: 0%
I doubt Greninja would get in Smash. There are a ton of Pokemon to choose from to be a newcomer. We have Blaziken and Zoroark and I extremely doubt that Greninja would get in over Mewtwo. I also have extreme doubts as Greninja is a new Pokemon, is it too early to define it as a Nintendo all-star yet?
Want: ???
Honestly... I dunno how to rate him in want. I never thought of Greninja being playable in Smash.
Now, let's get to Satisfaction.

Greninja
Satisfaction: 85%
I have a story to share.
Before the Direct, I wasn't hyped; I was incredibly nervous. There were 8 possible newcomers that I thought could get confirmed and I was only excited for one of them, Shulk. Takamaru and Dixie Kong may be in my top 10, but I can't hype myself for Takamaru and while I want Dixie Kong, I would hate to see K. Rool's dedicated fans be upset...
Not only that, but Snake could have gotten confirmed, thus ruining the chances of my most wanted newcomer, Bomberman, to appear in future Smash games.

The Direct went on with no newcomer in sight... I was honestly surprised. Then the trailer began.
The dark clouds made me think, "SHULK?" Then... Poke Balls, "Huh?" Charizard gets confirmed, "Cool! I'm glad he is his own slot now, but I hope this isn't the newcomer." Sees a shadow, "Mewtwo? No. They can't confirm Mewtwo! He would be saved for E3!" Sees a waterish attack, "Yeah... I'm doubting this is Mewtwo. If it's not Mewtwo... who could it be?" Greninja appears, "WHAT? Greninja?!" Greninja starts attacking, "Yeah, OK, you're cool! You can stay!"
I felt like its trailer executed extremely well on what the character could do in Smash. I still feel like Little Mac's trailer was better, but I say that Greninja's trailer is probably the 3rd best behind the Little Mac trailer and the E3 trailer.

I will be honest here, I don't think that Greninja deserves to be in Smash. I can't define it as a true all-star yet. Regardless, I am perfectly fine with Greninja; I used one in X and it was a pretty good Pokemon! Very speedy and reliable! It's moveset also makes up for my thoughts on it in Smash! It looks fantastic, bar the Shadow Ball-like move. However, that Substitute move looks pretty freaking awesome. This is a character that I can't wait to try out!

Greninja just came out from the shadows and just made me feel relieved. Honestly, one thing that probably contributed to my Greninja satisfaction was my low amounts of hype, low expectations, and high hopes; I expected the worst, but hoped for the best. I didn't walk away disappointed like many people did.

With this out of the way... let's analyze both the characters that were negatively and positively affected by Greninja.
Negatively Affected
Before we get to the elephant in the room, let's see what characters from other series that Greninja negatively affected.
Dixie Kong was hurt from this reveal. If she was in Smash, then she should have been confirmed; Diddy Kong is now confirmed and Tropical Freeze is still in our minds, I think that she had the potential to get revealed. I don't think she's done, but Greninja getting revealed over her leaves room for doubt for her. A similar character is Snake. He isn't directly affected by Greninja, but the fact that he didn't get revealed in the Direct after the release of Ground Zeroes is making me more doubtful towards his re-appearance.
One more character that was affected was Takamaru. He didn't take a hard hit, but some of the moves and powers Greninja has are things that I imagined Takamaru using.
The obvious elephant in the room is Pokemon. Many have predicted Brawl Pokemon + Mewtwo... with Greninja's reveal and Charizard's solo return, Pokemon is now much more difficult to predict. Mario has five reps, Zelda is guaranteed a 5th rep since Ganondorf will return, therefore Pokemon will have a 5th rep. It's hard to say who that 5th character will be...
As such, I adjusted my ratings:

• Mewtwo: 40%
• Jigglypuff: 40%
• Squirtle: 7%
• Ivysaur: 7%

Other misc Pokemon get one or two percent in the mix. We have cut Melee veteran Pichu, Gen V legendary Genesect, the PMD popular Grovyle, the Speed Boosting Blaziken that has its own Mega Evolution, among others.
Greninja's reveal hurt all of these characters and really killed off others, like Zoroark who appears in its trailer.
Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't as popular as Charizard; if the Pokemon Trainer were to get cut, Charizard would return. I am having mixed feelings whether or not Squirtle or Ivysaur will return.
Now, it's a battle between Mewtwo and Jigglypuff for the final Pokemon slot. Mewtwo is the most requested character worldwide and many of people were disappointed when it got cut. Jigglypuff is a 3 time perfect attendee veteran. Both of these characters have their fans... so one group is bound to be disappointed. Jigglypuff has power among the fanbase; I recently made a roster that cut Jigglypuff and brought back Mewtwo and people questioned why I cut Jigglypuff. Cutting a character that has been in three games is going to cause backlash.

One more thing to note, while I initially supported Brawl Pokemon + Mewtwo, I feel as though this concept is boring. I want Mewtwo to return, but I can live without Squirtle or Ivysaur. Greninja's appearance added a little spice to the roster in my eyes and I rather not have Generation I to be overly represented on the roster. I still want Mewtwo to return however.

Let's be a bit more positive.
Positively Affected
I say that characters from recent games and are popularized by a recent installment have been boosted from the Greninja reveal.
I sense that characters like Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, Dillon, and Bandana Dee have received a boost from Greninja, a character whose game has been released for a couple of months now mind you, were positively affected from this reveal.
[collapse=Bandana Dee stuff]Alright, my Bandana Dee ratings should have went like this:
Rate 1: 20%
Rate 2: 25%, helped by Rosalina
Rate 3 (the next one): 30%, helped by Greninja and removal of Waddle Dee Toss
Got it? Good.[/collapse]
I wouldn't give all of these characters a significant boost mind you (except for Palutena for different reasons), but they have benefited from this reveal.
And I'm done.

...

OK, OK! Let's talk about that new Sal Romano leak!
The guy predicted that Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man would get revealed at E3. The former three did and Little Mac was confirmed later. Without the leak, I felt as though Little Mac's and Pac-Man's chances are still incredibly strong. Miis... I wasn't confident in (I am now, however), so I doubted this leak.
Now he has come back and stated that 5 more characters are probably in Smash right before the Direct. These characters are Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, the "Chorus Men" from Rhythm Heaven, and "Pokemon from X and Y."
Since Greninja, a Pokemon from X and Y, got revealed... this got me curious (that and it mentioned Shulk, my most wanted newcomer behind Bomberman).
While this leak's legitimacy has been improved, I won't increase the chances of Shulk, Palutena, and Chrom on the basis of it. They still have a lot of things going for them that a leak wouldn't make a difference. If one of these three characters got confirmed, I still wouldn't believe the leak.
Regardless, the Chorus Men sound... fishy. I would only greatly increase the chances of Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, and Pac-Man if the Chorus Men get confirmed.
I recommend that when we start nominating characters again, someone should nominate the Chorus Men and Marshal. Their chances may have been benefited from this leak.

That is my Satisfaction for Greninja. He came from the shadows and smashed away a large part of the speculation scene. I love its inclusion and I can't wait to try it out! I probably won't main it, but it's definitely a fun looking character.

 

[Glaciacott]

Greninja Satisfaction: 100%

First, I want to clarify that I tend to give 100% satisfaction to the newcomers, because so far I haven't ceased to be surprised and amazed by the character choices, and I'll explain why with Greninja that is still the case.

On the personal side, I was one of the people who had her eye on Froakie since the Pokemon X and Y reveal, and as Frogadier and Greninja got revealed, I was more and more interested in that pokemon line and excited. Greninja is an extremely fresh pokemon, not only having a unique typing for a starter, but actually having decent stats for competitive gameplay AND having a phenomenal hidden ability. The shiny also happens to look awesome. It's clear that Gamefreak gave this pokemon love and attention.

In that sense, while his inclusion is surprising and it is a recent character, I don't think his inclusion is as unjustified as people claim. We're talking about X and Y, which are arguably Gamefreak's biggest attempt in recent times to promote Pokemon beyond the usual demographic. More than anything, it was their huge attempt at recapturing the people that wandered away from the franchise after Gold/Silver or even after Blue/Red/Yellow. And you know what? They kind of succeeded. I've seen more people care about this gen of pokemon than any of the previous ones.
With that in mind, I think it's a great idea to include a character from this generation, one that is bound to be an iconic one in the future. It's especically more interesting when you consider the fact the only pokemon in the roster NOT from gen 1 is Lucario, and I don't see why we should be focusing intensely on the first 151 pokemon when gamefreak now boasts a franchise of more than 15 years and more than 700 characters.
Not only that, but after Rosalina I was genuinely expecting a new pokemon character. This is something I expressed before, but my mistake was expecting Blaziken instead. So in that sense, getting an awesome ninja frog, a started I actually personally cared about and picked, over Blaziken which is, like charizard, an overhyped fire starter to me.

Now, the reason I elaborate all of this is to express something that I've come to realize from this reveal: what Sakurai is doing is ten times more interesting than what we were expecting. I understand the desire for Brawl + Mewtwo because I mained Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer, so having them back was a big deal. But interestingly, I am considerably more excited by the idea of having a new pokemon character instead. And that's the thing ... I had my chance to play mewtwo, and pokemon trainer, and thoroughly enjoy them. I CAN still play as them in Project M and Melee and Brawl. And when we're talking about a franchise with so many possible pokemon to play as, I am kind of surprisingly psyched that we got this surprise instead of a predictable and boring redo of the previous Smash games.

And really, here's where I get controversial. Does Greninja affect Mewtwo and Jiggly? maybe, but I don't think so. With Pokemon Trainer gone, we wind up with six pokemon if we include Greninja, Mewtwo and Jiggs, and that's a reasonable number for such a huge franchise. BUT, if we don't get Mewtwo or Jiggly ... frankly, I would be ok with that. That said, given Sakurai was obviously trying to hype Mewtwo, I'm sure he'll be back, so no worries there.

And yea, I admit that so far I am extremely pleased about the characters in this game so far. Some will go down tomorrow due to knowing their playstyles a bit more, but still, in the end I am extremely pleased with how Sakurai is not only doing his job, but also how he seems to be always two steps ahead of us. I have never been so hyped for a game before.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Greninja satisfaction: 100% I'm way too glad this happened, at least it's not the Brawl+Mewtwo everyone was expecting.

 

[C_Mill24]

Greninja satisfaaction: 95% Greninja isn't one of my favorite Pokemon (to be honest I find him a tad overrated, but whatever), but he was definately the best Pokemon rep from XY. I just wish the fan boys would stop talking about Mewtwo.

 

[Deleted member]

Greninja Satisfaction: 5%

Not going to say it ruined the direct, because I loved the direct. The problem for me is that Greninja is a design I personally hate and not the least bit deserving of a place in Smash Bros, yet. In a few years after he's been in all these movies and has some popularity behind him, yeah, I could ever respect it. Right now, this is simply using Smash Bros as a platform for The Pokemon Company's new pet project. It seems like we're just skipping over gen five entirely to go to gen six. Granted, I felt that gen five's starters were probably the worst ever, but did Sakurai really need to give even more bias to a starter? I'm guessing we'll never see playable Chesnaught or Delphox, the two I prefer. I'd have been happier if it had been lame-o Zoroark.

On the design, I really liked Froakie, but as it evolved it became far too try hard and edgy for me to like it anymore. The tongue looks stupid and the ninja scarf... tongue is perhaps one of the dumbest accessories I've seen on a Pokemon. The water shuriken is an unnecessary x elemental y signature move. Mystical Fire (Delphox) is fun because it uses her staff, Leaf Shield (Chesnaught) is an interesting defensive move and Water Shuriken is a multi-hit "water shuriken." The sharp edges also just look silly to me - in all I hate this design with a passion.

As far as its effects, Greninja reduces the chances of Mewtwo and got rid of two totally justified characters from gen one. That was actually fairness to all the starters of that gen, Greninja hails in the new age (the new age) of gen six where obvious preference goes to the "most popular" starters, the other two being ignored. The field for Pokemon is narrowed to the point I can see just Mewtwo and Jigglypuff return. As far as Greninja's moveset goes, the awesome substitute as an aesthetic is the reason he has 5% and not 0%, but the rest of it is just derivative counters, "ninja movement" and nothing else that innovates.

Actually writing about this all made me a little bit mad, because up until now I was mostly shocked by this newcomer. I thought it was Mewtwo like an idiot until I saw the water effects, which only made it more of a surprise. However, I knew there would be newcomers I disliked, although didn't think they'd add one of the worst Pokemon in recent years. But there are many others who like this Pokemon so I find it hard to be too upset over it without feeling obnoxious. I know I'm going to enjoy playing as it, like any Smash newcomer, but they could have added hundreds of other Pokemon I'd want over this one.

 

[Cpt.]

Greninnja 85%

Love the poke, just the trailer made me think it was Mewtwo for a while :/

 

[Glaciacott]

Quick clarification:
Rosalina isn't the reason Toad or whoever else won't make it. And Greninja isn't the reason for Pokemon Trainer being gone or a potential lack of Mewtwo.

Sakurai, and to an extent gamefreak, is the reason. It's like when people hated on ROBbecause he wasn't Ridley, when ROB didn't cause Ridley's absence.

 

[Deleted member]

If a character doesn't live up to your expectations for their franchise, that does factor into your satisfaction. If they added Adam Malkovich in before Ridley, I'd be totally dissatisfied, partially because of Ridley not getting in first. It's valid.

 

[Captain Toad]

Greninja Satisfaction: 60% (Preferred Little Mac's intro but still good.)

Whilst I'm not a huge fan of Greninja, since I didn't use him in X, I can appreciate that his addition came essentially out of nowhere to most people. We all expected Mewtwo and Charizard to be back. This has been an interesting move and Greninja looks like they'd be interesting to play, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the substitute move. (Nice little touch).

The moveset that we've seen so far seems like something new to Smash, and most certainly looking forward to trying Greninja out for a few runs, and maybe a few pokemon only battles.

Do I think Greninja deserves to be in Smash more than Jigglypuff? YES! Yes I do, Greninja is actually reasonably relevant. Puff hasn't been since the anime left...Johto? Not being funny...but seriously? And we still won't get Meowth who's the show's antagonist who deserves the slot more than puff.

More than Mewtwo? Who's one of the most popular pokemon of all time? I'm not entirely convinced, but perhaps Mewtwo will still be back, but they'd have to rebuild him, since it was a bit tragic for the ultimate pokemon to be so.....underpowered (Seriously, I played Pichu back in Melee, and I got more of a power trip, that's insane.)

Of course my satisfaction rating will increase considerably when I get a character I'm looking out for, (since unfortunately I currently don't have a character I'm hyped for in Smash. Come on Sakurai let me jump on the hype train already it's been a year.)

 

[Glaciacott]

I don't question satisfaction, that scores belongs to you.

I just bring it up because some seem to genuinely be outright angry and blaming the characters, as if this was musical chairs and Greninja pushed PTout of his chair. PT clearly is gone because of transformations being an issue for balance. If anything, I'm thankful we still got a water starter after that loss, and would be psyched about a grass starter (Sceptile?) as well at the cost of Mewtwo/Jiggly. But that's just me.

 

[Deleted member]

It's fine for you to hold that opinion, but there is nothing incorrect about not liking a character as a representative of their series, versus other candidates. Greninja may not be a direct cause if Mewtwo no-shows, but it is an indirect one - enough to say it reduces its chances, although we're obviously not talking about a substantial difference. But given the thread we're in, even a small change is worth a mention and affects your point-of-view.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Greninja: 50%

Truthfully, I was mostly neutral with the Ninja Pokemon. Interesting perhaps, but I was more expecting it to be a Poke Ball Pokemon, if anything.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Greninja Satisfaction: 65%

 

[TheZombiePig]

Greninja satisfaction: 95%

Mewtwo's chances seem low, but oh well. Of all the Pokemon I thought had a chance of being in the game, Greninja was not one, with the attributing factors being that I expected Pokemon Trainer would be back, and I didn't expect another trainer. And when it was revealed characters wouldn't "transform" it still didn't occur to me. When I realized that shadow of a Pokemon was Greninja, I couldn't be happier. It's the same deal with Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina. There are these characters I didn't expect to show up, but now that they have, I can't really say I'd want anyone else to have gotten in over them.

 

[samsparta21]

Greninja satisfaction: 90%

 

[NickerBocker]

Greninja Satisfaction: 70%

While I was certainly surprised, I wasnt very disappointed. Greninja seems interesting. People may diss him for not being the marketable, most popular character, but up until this point, we thought that was a major entity in selection. The rest of the direct was very good, but Greninja kind of brought it down, only slightly.

This hurts other Pokemon chances, but keep in mind with squirtle and ivysaur absent, its very possible that there is still space for both Mewtwo and Jiggs. Breaking up Pokemon Trainer really does open up a lot of options for incluaion, due to his complex balancing and design. Had we known Pokemon Trainer was gone, we may have had better insight as to what was going to happen. I guess now we know that Sakurais word should nit always be taken so seriously. Whether or not we get what we expect is now up in the air.

 

[Typs]

As others have said, i feel like greninja doen't deserve to be playable and was just put in the game to advertise Gen 6. Compare to every other pokemon, he is just about average in term of design and popularity.
I give him 5% because there are worst choice for a new pokemon rep, and another 5% because, i have to admit, that substitute looks awesome in HD.

Greninja satisfaction: 10%

 

[Chandeelure]

Greninja Satisfaction: 90%
I'm tired of this:

Greninja looks awesome and unique, I don't care about Mewtwo now (but I want my fairy Jigglypuff!)

 

[PK_Wonder]

Greninja is proving to be the most polarizing character so far.

So, first of all, importance actually is important to me. I want a celebration of Nintendo's vast history. This is my favorite company, and I was born and raised on their games. I want a wide variety of A and B-listers. I want all of the A-listers in before the B-listers, and all of the B-listers before the C-listers, and you better start with a C+ character before a C- one. It's like, I might prefer Daisy in every possible way, but if she got in before Peach, the respect I have for this game would drop.

I don't care if someone like Hawlucha or Jody Summer or Weavel or Kumatora are given the most amazing moveset and gameplay conceivable. I will still be unsatisfied with the entire game, because there are 100 actual all-stars that didn't get in, while someone who is a D-lister from his or her own franchise, let alone Nintendo as a whole alone did get in. I love that these hundreds of minor characters will be getting cameos and trophies. In fact, I want as many trophies as possible, because I love collecting vast quantities of virtual things and this is a celebration of my favorite thing, Nintendo,'s history. But if Yarne is playable before at least six other Fire Emblem characters are at once, I will never respect Sakurai again. I seriously do not care how good or cool Honey Queen or Panter Caruso could be.

I am completely confident no characters of that insignificant caliber will get in until we have a game with a roster of 100 at least.

Then there are cases like Rosalina & Luma.

Toad is more iconic. He is more of an all-star. He is more recognizable as a whole. He, (ironically is a bigger star than her. but Rosalina is still in the same league as him, and to be honest, Sakurai probably made a more creative and satisfying moveset and gameplay style out of her than he would have Toad. I say this as a Toad supporter, I couldn't think of a better idea for Toad than Sakurai did with Rosalina & Luma. but if Sakurai made freaking Wendy O. Koopa instead of Rosalina, and made her just as cool as Rosalina is, I would scream with furious anger, because Wendy isn't even in the same sport as Toad.

Then when have Greninja. To Nintendo's history, Greninja is the least important character in this entire roster.

But that doesn't mean he isn't important.

Pokemon is a series where importance is more subjective than it is in any other Nintendo series. You have the entire cast of 719 monsters available to you to carry around in your pocket, train and grind for hundreds of hours, and battle with. Some people like me invest lots of time trying to complete their entire Pokedex AND raise competitive-viable warriors. Most competitive players focus on just a six or a dozen main fighters at most after they finish the story mode quests and side quests. One player could indeed have an Omastar on his team that is his superstar fighter. This player may never use or consider using Charizard or Greninja or Lucario or (when legendaries are allowed) Mewtwo. It isn't like The Legend of Zelda where you play as Link and realize through cut scenes and dialogue and common sense that non-player characters like Zelda and Ganondorf are the 2nd and 3rd most important characters.

That doesn't mean you can't use other factors to gauge Pokemon's importance. Not only is their popularity among the competitive scene, but there is the anime and movies, as well as overall popularity in the gaming community. Some players may use Breloom or Conkeldurr as a team staple, but you don't hear about these Pokemon as a gamer. Then there are hundreds of Pokemon where common sense says they aren't Smash-material. Nosepass or Sunkern or Wailord aren't going to be platforming anytime soon. Pikachu and Charizard and Mewtwo are iconic. Importance to in-gamestory also matters. Lucario is more deserving for Smash than ever. Every Pokemon X & Y player will receive one in a very key part of the story, and he is the first example of a new mechanic so big it is now repped in Smash: Mega Evolution.

Then we have Greninja. The highest evolution of the most popular starter from a game that has sold like 13 million copies in just over six months and has helped pushed the 3DS in sales. He is very popular and in Smash speculation rosters was also the obvious high evolution in people's Kalos Pokemon Trainer lineup. So a lot of people did consider him, just not solo. He is probably the most important new Pokemon in the sixth generation other than massive legendaries that are inconceivable for Smash. As far as old non-starter Pokemon who are important in X&Y there are Lucario (who is in), Blaziken (who will probably settle for a trophy), and Mewtwo (who also represents Mega Evolution like Lucario and Charizard, and has always been very popular, but did probably dip around the Gen 3 and 4 era due to not being showcased in-game much). So I don't think Greninja affected Mewtwo's chances at all. He is just as relevant now as he was in his heyday and Melee inclusion. This doesn't Mewtwo has a 100% chance, but there SHOULD be 5 Pokemon slots, one of which SHOULD be Mewtwo. If there are only 4, I will be mad at Greninja who is not quite as important as Mewtwo. If there are 5, I will blame it on Jigglypuff, but that's a whole other story.

but the 6th generation needed a representative. Just look how important X&Y are, and how much Pokemon has grown as a whole since Brawl. 5th Gen has come and gone, with Zorark and Victini (both disconfirmed) dwindling. Unlike those two, however, Froakie is a starter Pokemon, meaning every single person who buys X&Y will have an opportunity to encounter and raise Greninja right from the beginning. A lot of people will never catch Zoroark or Victini, and they don't have almost 20 years of reputation and star power like another rare Pokemon, Mewtwo. More than 1 in 3 people will have Greninja as their final starter (I have seen many polls where Froakie is the most popular, just as Charmander always was... and look where he is now). Greninja is the best choice, and Sakurai has done wonders with him.

TL;DR? Doesn't matter. Greninja is a BAMF.

Satisfaction: 90% for now. If Mewtwo is confirmed, this will go up to a 100%. I am 100% satisfied with Greninja's gameplay, but will always hold a tiny grudge toward him if Mewtwo isn't in.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I'm feeling around 70% about ol' tongue-scarf.

Pros:
-Completely unexpected. I love characters that make you think "nah they wouldn't do that because XYZ" AND THEN THEY DO IT AND MAKE IT LOOK AWESOME.
-Gen six was chock full of awesome Pokemon designs in my opinion, so I'm glad that they actually picked one. I was a Chespin trainer, but really all of the starters were cool, again imo.
-Ninjas are cool. I was always bummed that Sheik never really resonated with me. Here's hoping Greninja or new Sheik will let me play a ninja I enjoy.

Cons:
-They've hyped him too much than he deserves by revealing him before release. Gen six started less than a year ago, so anyone who doesn't keep up with Pokemon is left scratching their heads at what the heck this thing is. Lucario had a movie and his gen had been around for a few years, so I'd say he was a bit more recognizable. On top of that, he was a hidden character. I think they should have went with a more recognizable mon like Mewtwo or a popular 5th gen Pokemon (though there was Charizard I suppose) and left Greninja as a surprise secret character like Wolf and Lucario.

In short, he looks really freaking cool and I can't wait to play him, but he's also less than a year old and is an oddly unfamiliar choice for a game who's playable cast is centered around the most beloved Nintendo characters.

 

[Sid-cada]

Greninja Satisfaction - 40%

Eh... this is the first newcomer that I'm actually somewhat disappointed in. He's too new of a face, and thus feels a lot like blunt advertising.

Unlike Roy in Melee, he also doesn't feel exciting to make up for it. Sheik is already a ninja, Takamaru is likely to use ninja elements, and overall I'm not a big ninja fan.

Of course, I'm also sad to see Trainer go. Having that team also made it feel as if there was less obvious favoritism for one character over another. Now it's clear who they're using as marketing tools over the others.


It's not a total loss, as at least he's relatively interesting. If we got Chrom or Pac-Man instead, I would definitely be allot tougher on grading. I'm willing to forgive him for now, though too many characters like these and I might loose interest...

 

[Erimir]

Quick clarification:
Rosalina isn't the reason Toad or whoever else won't make it. And Greninja isn't the reason for Pokemon Trainer being gone or a potential lack of Mewtwo.

Sakurai, and to an extent gamefreak, is the reason.

I said it before, but Toad's fate was sealed back in Melee, by Sakurai. Sakurai could've put him in for Brawl, but he didn't. He just put no Mario newcomer in. Because apparently he didn't think any of them were worth adding. And if he wanted Toad, he could easily justify putting both Rosalina and Toad in the game. Mario is the biggest video game series of all time, it has twice as many sales as Pokemon, and if it only gets five reps, it's because Sakurai only thought five characters were worth putting in, not because he thought Mario only deserved five slots and he gave it to Rosalina. True, I'd be completely surprised to see three Mario newcomers, but a second is totally possible. If Toad doesn't make it, it's because Sakurai doesn't like Toad for Smash, nothing to do with Rosalina.

They're thinking that somehow, Rosalina has an "inflated" importance that led Sakurai to pick her over Toad. Like someone in marketing puffed her up. But really, Sakurai just has a lower opinion of Toad than they do, according to how important he is or his move set potential, or both. If it wasn't Rosalina they were mad with, it'd be no Mario newcomer or Bowser Jr, etc.

Personally I think Rosalina is a worthy addition, but so are Toad and Bowser Jr. Paper Mario and Waluigi are less worthy but not crazy like Birdo or Dry Bones.

For Pokemon Trainer, I'd put it down to Sora, or probably Namco. I doubt it was Sakurai who initiated the idea of removing transformations, since he clearly liked that idea in the past. The greater emphasis on competitive and balance probably led to that decision, and someone who is not Sakurai probably suggested it. That said, I'm in favor.

Gamefreak is totally behind Greninja though.

It's fine for you to hold that opinion, but there is nothing incorrect about not liking a character as a representative of their series, versus other candidates. Greninja may not be a direct cause if Mewtwo no-shows, but it is an indirect one - enough to say it reduces its chances, although we're obviously not talking about a substantial difference. But given the thread we're in, even a small change is worth a mention and affects your point-of-view.

I think he's asking that people judge characters on their own merits a little more.

If Toad was already in, and then Rosalina was confirmed, would Toad fans be hating on her and saying she absolutely didn't deserve to be in? I rather highly doubt it. They're bitter and saying she doesn't deserve it because they're upset that Sakurai has thought, for three iterations now, that Toad doesn't fit. Same goes for Bowser Jr fans or whoever.

I would be annoyed at Adam Malkovich's inclusion regardless of whether Ridley got in. I don't like the character and he doesn't deserve to be in. I would rather Metroid get no newcomers than get Adam Malkovich, or only get Ridley than get both Ridley and Adam Malkovich. Him "taking Ridley's spot" would have nothing to do with it.

(but I want my fairy Jigglypuff!)

Thanks for reminding me that Jigglypuff has a reason to be revamped too.

Jiggly's standard attacks are mostly good, but her specials could use some freshness, and after seeing the other veterans, I'm sure if she's not cut she'll have some cool new moves.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Man Mewtwo can die in a hole for all I care.

Not saying I DON'T want him in, but for the love of god I can't see any Greninja talk without Mewtwo comparisons and it annoys me.

Anyhow, I never asked for Greninja, but I think it's great he's in. Left field choices are my favorite (hello, Wii Fit Trainer), and Greninja fills a niche in being a teleport based rushdown which I felt Smash was lacking of. He brings the Mahvel in Smash.

I wouldn't rate him with a number really, saying "I'm satisfied" is enough.

 

[Deleted member]

I think he's asking that people judge characters on their own merits a little more.

If Toad was already in, and then Rosalina was confirmed, would Toad fans be hating on her and saying she absolutely didn't deserve to be in? I rather highly doubt it. They're bitter and saying she doesn't deserve it because they're upset that Sakurai has thought, for three iterations now, that Toad doesn't fit. Same goes for Bowser Jr fans or whoever.

I would be annoyed at Adam Malkovich's inclusion regardless of whether Ridley got in. I don't like the character and he doesn't deserve to be in. I would rather Metroid get no newcomers than get Adam Malkovich, or only get Ridley than get both Ridley and Adam Malkovich. Him "taking Ridley's spot" would have nothing to do with it.

There is indirect competition between Pokemon for slots, more than other characters, as it is known that Game Freak gives a list to Sakurai about what they want. If Mewtwo doesn't get in, it'll partly be as a result of the Pokemon that came above him in priority. I do think slots aren't a valid argument most of the time, but there is a better argument for them in this case.

Not to get all semantic, but lets not pick bones with comments that are just disappointed that Greninja got picked over Mewtwo, as for all we know that is exactly the case. The truthful and kneejerk reactions are no less valid than the detailed analyses.