Rate Their Chances: GAME OVER! Join the RTC Social Group Today!

[WeirdChillFever]

Abstain on Isaac and other chances

Dixe Kong and Chorus Men Want: 100%
Tied for current Most Wanted, especially Dixie.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Abstain on Dixie and Chorus Kids due to indifference
Isaac
Chance: 15%
Sadly between the leak and the little time left before the game is released I can't say I'm too hopeful in seeing him on the original roster at least, if DLC does happen then I can see him making it in later down the road. That being said, I don't get the "GS has no chance cause the series is dead" comments, I mean, the last Punch Out came in 2009 and it was a pseudo-remake, and Little Mac still got in, so I don't quite get how that stops GS from getting a rep. Still, I can't deny his chances aren't looking bright right now, but at least he hasn't been disconfirmed yet.
Want: 100%
Out of all possible newcomers, Isaac is at the top of my wishlist right alongside Ridley, even though I'm not a fan of the GS series, I think Isaac focus on earth spells and interactions with the field would bring a very fun playstyle to Smash. He also fills the bill of representing more series into Smash rather than adding more to them, so that's a plus

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Issac:

Chance: 20% There's been little news about him.
Want: 55% While he looks interesting, I wont be all that upset if he doesn't make it in.

Dixie Kong: Abstain

Chorus Men:

Chance: 50%
Want: 64%

 

[Thereallucario]

Oh man, I really wanted to talk about the choirs men, just because I hate the guts out of the idea

Chance:0%

All right, here me out before you say "he's a biased jerk, burn him!"

1. Tri seams impossible (A.K.A. the ds cant handle that sniz)
Do I really need to explain this one? if they had problems with ice climbers this is NEVER going to be true.

2. Never asked for by us/ never mentioned by sakurai
Come on guys, I know sakurai is crazy, but he at least already talked about a rhythm heaven rep from the first game, and that was karate joe. he skipped over the choirs men.

3. They are really not the most important character, even in there own game.
For those who don't know rhythm heaven let me give you the run down of what the games are like. Essentially they are a collection of mini games that have basic controls which give a number of small on beat or off beat button combos (on the ds you tap). there where two games in the series, rhythm heaven and rhythm heaven fever (fever being the sequel to regular). Choirs men (yes they are men guys enough with the kids) appeared in the first game along with karate joe. in the final mix where you play all the games so far in no real order. Karate joe starts and ends the remix. Moving on the the second game, this game introduces marshal to the table. Marshal tends to be the narrate or guide of the rhythm heaven games sometimes appearing to tell you something or just make minor cameos. But do yu want to know kindof what makes this whole thing more valid in the sense? Karate joe returned, as a full game!

Some people might also argue "but he was on the cover!" but I'd just direct you to Chrom and his little corner of sadness.

Choirs want: 10%
Between Choirs, Karate and Marshal, id quickly cross off choirs and decide between the other two. I'd like a rhythm heaven rep, but not them. I hated there singing minigame anyway. The insistent "still going to be in" also ruins my likening.

Isaac
Chance:30%
Want: 90%

Not as good of chances as they once where, but its not impossible ether.


Dixie
Chance: 40%
Want: 50%

Leaks leaks and more leaks, all while I really don't care.

 

[Adeptmune]

Isaac:
Chance: Abstain (mostly because there's been exactly 0 word for or against him, so...)
Want: 100%
Have wanted him in a Smash game since I played Golden Sun for the first time in like 2003. He doesn't even need a sword, all he needs is his Psynergy and he's set. The sword can just be decoration for all I care, since Psynergy is way more diverse and he's got so much potential with all of the different Djinni and whatnot. He's totally different from Shulk and Robin. Not to mention, I'd really like to see another AT other than just Little Mac get an upgrade. Other than for Roy to come back, Isaac is 100% the character that I want in Sm4sh and no other character even comes close to the feels I've got for the earth adept. :T

Chorus Men:
Chance: Abstain
Want: 0%
I really don't know anything about them, so I have no opinion. If they're in, they're in, if they're not, they're not.

Dixie:
Chance: Abstain
Want: 30%
I think Dixie would be cool (besides, DK needs another rep anyway) but I'd rather see K.Rool simply because Smash needs more heavyweights.

 

[Darkshadow77]

Isaac

Chance - 1% - Golden Sun is pretty much dead at this point and the last game was a flop. It's not happening.
Want - 0% - Bleh


Chorus men

Chance - 40% - I do think it's possible for a Rhythm Heaven rep to show up, but it probably won't be these guys.
Want - 70% - It could be an interesting character, although I'd rather haver any other Rhythm Heaven character.


Dixe Kong

Chance - 60% - Dixie is very likely at this point.
Want - 15% - I'd rather have K. Rool, to be honest.

 

[wizardto1]

Issac: Abstain
Want: 50%
Chorus Men: 50%
On one hand, they were on the Gematsu leak and there's the Sneaky Spirit but on the other hand, they could be cut for programming reasons like Ice Climbers
Want: 50%
Never played Rhythm Heaven
Dixie: 65%
She has relevancy, importance, ability to be a clone but I feel like she should have been revealed on Febraury.
Want: 80% DK rep pls.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Isaac​

Chance: 10%
Dead series, but not archaic like Duck Hunt/Ice Climber. He's just kinda stuck in this weird limbo of not being old enough to be retro, but not having a new enough title to be relevant. Literally all he has going for him is the lack of him being shown as an assist trophy. He isn't included in any of the text leaks as well, which hurts him. They may not be very trustworthy, but it's still noteworthy
Want: 1%
No attachment tot he character, but I recognize he has a lot of fans, so I'd be happy for them, still though, I could care less if he makes it in or not

You're free to rate him however you want, just want to make a quick correction. Mother is a dead series. F-Zero is a dead series. Golden Sun is NOT a ****ing dead series. Its last game was four years ago, that's hardly consideration for it being "dead." If Golden Sun is dead, so is Metroid and Star Fox was... until a new game was announced.

 

[Storm Eagle]

-Isaac
Chance: 5% It's looking grim right now.
Want: 100% After Mega Man who alreay got in two years ago, my most wanted newcomer in Smash!

-Chorus Kids
Chance: 75%
Want: 60% I actually own Rhythm Paradise, it's one of my favourite DS games, and I think that series is worthy of having a character, but they wouldn't wow me away.

-Dixie
Chance: 50%
Want: 80% I would actually really like to see her.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Chorus Men Chance: 50% Assuming that the ESRB leak is true and the roster is incomplete, I honestly think it can go either way. With the Sneaky Spirit in mind, I still think a Rhythm Heaven character was planned and that Sakurai still wanted the Chorus Men to work programming-wise and did not want to go with Karate Joe or Marshal. They could easily make them different from IC, as many have people explained that the Chorus Men are 1 character but copy the front choir boy's every action by a millisecond, it's pretty different from IC's AI.

Isaac Chance: 5% Still the same low as last time, only it's now at 5% due to roster looking almost complete. I still don't see him as a viable candidate as much as I was went I first went to the Isaac thread a year ago. He may have popularity and uniqueness as a character, but his newest game Dark Dawn flunked the series down and made me think about how Isaac's chances are in reality, they are really low. Unless GS comes out with a successful new installment, I don't think he's going to get in as playable, he's probably going to be an AT like last time.

Dixie Chance: 7.5% I'm stumped, now I think Tropical Freeze is too new for Dixie to be considered as a character to market Smash for Wii U/3DS. I honestly thought a DK character was a high possibility, but now I feel less confident about it due to the ESRB leak. Maybe we haven't see her because she's most likely a secret character, but I doubt it. If Dixie doesn't get in, then no other DKC character will get in as playable.

 

[Malkior7]

Chorus men: I really don't know enough about Rhythm Heaven to give an accurate rating so I'm going to pass on rating them.

Dixie Kong: being playable in TF gives her some leverage to be in SSB4 but I'm not sure how unique she would be outside of different damage output I give a solid 70%.

Isaac: Sakurai definitely pays attention to fan base and Isaac has however I think Dark Dawn's lack luster performance could be have an impact on his being in this game I give a solid 80%

 

[andimidna]

These 3 have had the most shaky chances throughout speculation imo.
Most of the other characters we've rated I've stayed in the same range each time, unless they were leaked.


Dixie Kong:
This happens every time. We rate her right as I get confident in her, and then a couple weeks later something comes up and I doubt her again, and just hope for an assist.
Well, I'm not as confident as I was like 6 days ago, but I'm rating 50+
Chance: 63%
Either the 2nd or most likely newcomer left not leaked. I can't decide whether it's her or Ridley. But still, Mewtwo wins out of all the non-leaked characters.
Want: 100%
Clone or unique, she's always been in my top 10, top 7, etc. But now she's my 2nd most wanted left after Impa (I consider Anna basically deconfirmed)

Isaac:
In my post in his last rating, I explained how highly I used to think of him early in speculation, and how that slowly went down as time went on, and there was nothing in his favor.
I never really though him and Shulk were in competition, or Robin, but with them, I'm not even mad he seems to not be joining.
It felt more... needed before. But with 4-5 slots remaining, or even 0-3... I don't see him as in the top 5 even when disregarding veterans and a Mii slot. I don't know why I'd say he's in.
It's far too late in the game to say "well he has nothing against him, so why not? 50+% chance!"
A leak is something. Also, I'd imagine new series character getting trailers before release. I had always banked on a Shulk trailer before release, and it happened. So while he's not deconfirmed, where is the hope to hold on to? He has the merits, but those barely contribute to his chance at this point.
Chance: 9%
Want: 80%
Like I said, I don't feel like I need this anymore.
I like the swordsman newcomer selection, so it's all good either way. As long as his AT returns. Actually, if it doesn't, that would make him a DLC frontrunner, so nevermind, no assist please.

Chorus Kids:
After E3 I called them shoo-ins.
Even after Robin and Lucina, when everybody was praising the death of Gematsu, I held on to it.
Thought they were still definitley in, and it was just outdated.
But I never applied how it was outdated to them.
Chance: 31%
They still have a shot, but I'm leaning towards no.
But I do think Gematsu was real. Just, outdated in more ways than we had already expected.
I think they wanted to add them, and decided on them before they started really trying to fit Ice Climbers in the game.
And I think both will be part of this game's "forbidden 7"
I think they got cut. But were planned.
And while this seems far-fetched to guess, Smash Run enemies and the leaks easily suppot this when you think about it.
Also, Lucas getting cut would just be another point for Gematsu.
Anyways, if Gematsu was fake this whole time, they have no chance, they aren't main characters in the series and somebody else would have been chosen, they are still dependent on Gematsu. And if you think Gematsu is fake then I don't see how you could rate them highly.
Want: 49%
Priorities kicked in. Sorry little guys. I wouldn't hate you though.
Edit: but if Ice Climbers return, they're back to shoo-in status imo. As you'll see tomorrow though I give Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers the same score

 

[Burigu]

Issac
Chance: 2%
Since it seems we have tons of GS fans around I will clear this out, I am a fan too, that said I don't see Isaac any close to actually happening, lack of news is good news? there are too many ways to interprete this could either be good or bad. Maybe and just maybe Isaac isn't even going to be a assist trophy this time around and that is why, there aren't any news.

But let's keep aside this "no news is good news" issue. You people are right Isaac could be unique, I am not even going to debate that, but there are plenty of sword user already in the game, I know he can have different properties but thematically speaking he is another sword user, or yet another magic sword user, or another auto buffed sword user, which are niches already covered.

Since all of the No clone Newcomers seems to have a very distictive moveset and particular concept I don't see Sakurai repeating those concepts for Isaac. Yeah he can give him a different approach, but even among fans the autobuffer concept with him using or removing Djinn is already covered by Shulk, in a different way but the concept is there.

I am not giving 0% because Sakurai is known to pull of some unexpected surprises, I am not sure about Isaac, my biggest doubt is his role as sword user. Yes you can tell me most of his moveset is going to be Earth Psyenergy, in game weapons are a big part of the series, so Isaac is definetely going to use a sword, for various attack and there are tons of sword users already, so I think Sakurai is going to skip on Isaac not because of the lack of potencial but for the redundancy of his inclusion.

Bigger franchises still stand better chances at getting another character, in the end of the day if I am wrong well I don't mind really. I am not even going to bother with DLC since that is not the purpose of this thread

Want: 55%
I like this series a lot but there are other characters that I like more than Isaac.

• Jenna just for comparation want 80%, find her character family and backstory really interesting tragedy seems to follow her, also like her design a lot and is the only character in 1 and 2 to have her own battle theme apart for Isaac and Felix, for the beta info she was a late addition to the game but I am glad she made it to the game.
• Matthew want 70%, he is really similar to Isaac no doubt yet I see those minor differences really significant design wise, to put it simple Matthew for me looks more madure and badass. Yeah no great reason but want is about my liking isn't it?
• Yes I prefer Wife and son best

That said if Isaac is unlikely any character from his generation are also really unlikely so Jenna isn't happening, Matthew on the other hand comes from the last game, still Isaac seems to have the upper hand.

Dixie Kong
Chance: 25%
At this point I am not really confident in DK getting a new character, I would say it is 50/50 so if we have Rool and Dixie on the half that can happen I am giving Dixie 25% of happening.

Want: 40%
Not a big fan of the series partly because I don't own any game of that series, blame destiny because of that

Chrous Kids
Chance: 12.5%
They were in gematsu, then Chrom happened they were mentioned in the roster leak but that part was a lie, I am sure about something if they are in, you aren't using 3 at the same time.

Want: 50%
Neutral

 

[Opossum]

Isaac -

Want: 75%
Chance: 3%

His odds are pretty dead post-leak.

Dixie -

Want: 80%
Chance: 25%

There's a chance that there's one or two remaining newcomers. She's probably among the likeliest after...

Chorus Kids -

Want: 100%
Chance: 50%

In my opinion, if there is any remaining non-leaked newcomer, it's the Chorus Kids. One bad apple doesn't spoil the Gematsu. Sneaky Spirits are also a thing. If they don't make it in, you can bet your bottom dollar they were at least planned.

That being said, I think the odds of getting ANYONE not on the leaked list is only about 50%

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac:
Chance: 5%
Want: 14%
Eh. He isn't an AT as of yet.

Dixie Kong
Chance: 50%
Want: 50%
This part of the leak seems like it might be legit. As for want, its a new DK character, but its not K. Rool.

Chorus Men
Chance: 25%
Want: 0%
Well Gematsu obviously had inside information, but Ice Climbers are gone, so who can say if this isn't a Chrom-esque mistake by the leaker? Other than that, they could function differently than the ICs.

 

[colder_than_ice]

Isaac
Chance: 9% - I've pretty much given up on him.
Want: 79% - Golden Sun seriously needs better recognition. It's really unfair that such an iconic series is getting so little attention.

Dixie
Chance: 24% - I consider her the most likely potential newcomer to not be part of that leak. But I'm think that 48 (+ Miis) character roster is all we're getting.
Want: 56% - I'll lend my support regardless.

Chorus Kids
Chance: 11% - This is making less and less sense as time goes by. I'm only rating them this high because they seem to be appearing on every single leak there is and I try to keep an open mind about leaks. They not function anything like Ice Climbers and instead be a completely new type of character that we've never seen before.
Want: 41% - I don't support them as much as I used to, but they might be fun.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Isaac

Chance: 45% I am probably being really generous and as much as like the idea of having a beam sword user in Smash (Shulk) I kind of figured Shulk's inclusion would hurt Isaac's chances. Another character I wasn't expecting that I feel hurt his chances was Robin. I imagines Isaac would have been a magic swordsman and Robin took that role. Still, he was a very popular character. In Brawl, Lynn Little Mac, and Isaac where the 3 Assist Trophy characters I always hear people beg to be playable. If he didn't get shown with Lyn then my guess is he's unlock-able or DLC. But the next paragraph will explain why I feel this way...

Want: 100% I want Isaac to be playable so bad it crazy. I LOVE Golden Sun. Though Lost Age is my favorite I enjoyed all the games. There are only two things I really ask for from Smash and either would make me content: A Legend of Zelda newcomer or Isaac as a playable character.

Dixie Kong

Chance: 29% I don't think things are looking good for her. I could be wrong but I just don't see us playing Dixie as her own character. Maybe a Diddy Alt but that might be weird.

Want: 85% I want her in the game. DK Country 2 is my favorite game and DK Country 3 my second in the DK series. She was pretty fun in Tropical Freeze, too. I always liked Dixie. I am way more fond of the Diddy-Dixie combo then I am the DK Diddy combo. But I think K. Rool needs to be in more than she does... :/ Wish I could have them both.


Chorus Kids

Chance: 10% If we can't get Ice Climber in the game because of 3DS limitations then I don't see how we could get in Chorus Kids. I am doing a lot of assuming here but every picture I saw of them was 3 kids. So I would guess that they where going to be one Human controlled character with 2 CPU controlled characters with the intelligence of Nana. if potetially 8 Human/CPU characters on screen through WiFi was too much for the 3DS then so would the potential 12 input readings from them. But I dunno. Maybe Chorus Kids would have been 2 characters, or just 1. If you do just get one chorus kid then I think his chances are higher.

Want: .2% I don't hate the character. I never played any Rythm Heaven games. I just couldn't care less about Chorus Kids.

 

[shinhed-echi]

ISAAC:
Want: 100%
Chance: 40%
-His popularity has diminished a great deal since Brawl. Dark Dawn didn't do much for him, as 1.- It introduced a new generation of playable characters, and 2.-Didn't do so well, and had nowhere near the same marketing push that, say.. Xenoblade had.
However, there still is some hope.
For starters, he hasn't shown up with the rest of the heavy hitting, veteran ATs that were already revealed (Lyn, Goroh, Saki, Starfy, Shadow (because he was unlockable), so it's weird that Isaac has still not been revealed as an AT, or regular trophy.
Then there's always DLC. Perhaps Sakurai had plans for him as DLC character, and the reason we know nothing about, is because he's out of the Leakable boundaries, and in a more secret DLC roster.
The chances aren't particularly high, but we can't deny that Isaac is almost the posterboy of the GBA. And handhelds need their characters represented as well, let alone a great franchise like Golden Sun.


CHORUS MEN:
Want 0%
Chance 20%
-I don't know much about this guy, but I did read somewhere a while ago that he was considered but scrapped early in development. And if Gematsu and Chrom is of any indication, I'd say this guy is not in.


DIXIE KONG:
Want:75%
Chance 90%
-I kinda like Dixie Kong. Perhaps one of the first gaming female characters that I liked when I was a kid. But personal taste aside, there is NO way Sakurai is not going to push for Dixie due to the high success of Tropical Freeze. The game is still fresh in everyone's mind (and if I bring a little finance in, you can still get the game but for its full price, if I'm not mistaken), so it's a win for Nintendo.
She's probably going to be seen as a clone when chances are she's not going to play like one, perhaps outside a shared move or two with Diddy and Donkey. But Dixie is popular, fits right in with the new wave of female characters in SSB4,
Also, I'm pretty sure that Dixie Kong is NOW more popular than K.Rool. Seriously, stop rolling your eyes now. Dixie Kong is a lot fresher in the eyes of the public than K.Rool. K.Rool may be the big bad of the franchise, but he's seen in ONE scene at the end of every past DKC game, where as Dixie has been seen FULL TIME in DKC2, DKC3, Tropical Freeze, not sure if DKL2, DKL3, and I THINK she was in Mario Kart as well, which is on a whole other league from whatever sport title K.Rool appeared in.
Note, I have nothing against K.Rool. But it's hard to deny that he holds a candle to Dixie Kong in terms of screen-time and actual popularity.
My two bananas.

 

[a Link to the Forums]

Dixie Kong:
Chance: 65%
Most of the time when we talk about Dixie we also have to bring up K Rool and frankly, I don't know how K Rool will fair any more so I'll leave him out of the picture.
Tropical Freeze came out and by looking at the other newcomers, recency is a huge boost. People can argue that it may have been too recent but I haven't lost hope on that. If X and Y could get this much representation then I don't see how TF could not get some seeing as it was planned to come out in November and had a much longer development period than X and Y.
I'm going to quote a bit of myself here because I have to go soon and I can't waste too much time:

I disagree that she was in the forbidden 7 isn't a good argument for this game. It confirms that Sakurai did consider her which in my mind is a massive boost for her. In fact it's pretty much the only reason why I think she's playable this time(although I am prepared if she is not).

Sure, Dixie was planned to be in a duo with Diddy before Sakurai couldn't make it work but the fact that he considered her is still something that is great for her chances. Sakurai has already revisited old ideas. Villager was 'unfit for battle' in Brawl yet he's seen here. Miyamoto suggested Pac-Man to Sakurai but he thought an incomplete pizza shape would be too farfetched for a character. Dr Mario is back too who was also part of the forbidden 7.

A lot of characters that have been found with data/coding/whatever in game that weren't playable have eventually been playable. Mewtwo has almost made every Smash game to date except for Melee when he actually did become playable. Same for DeDeDe. Bowser almost made the original. It is believed that Pit, Wario, Peach and Meowth were also considered at some point, though this has considerably less evidence but 3/4 isn't bad at all. In Melee, as well as D3, Pit, Snake, Meta Knight and Lucas were planned all of which made it into Brawl.

Want: 100%
After Ghirahim got deconfirmed () she has become my new most wanted character.

Isaac:
Chance: 10%
He's got a chance but at this point, I'm expecting him to stay as an assist trophy.
Want: abstain

Chorus Men:
Chance: abstain
I'm just not sure at this point. The Smash Run enemy indicates some sort of RH rep but, eh, with how little remaining slots are,it seems hard to predict. Plus there's also competition within the RH franchise.
Want: abstain

 

[Rockaphin]

Isaac:
Chance: 15%
Want: 70%

Chorus Men:
Chance: 10%
Want: 10%

Dixie Kong:
Chance: 45%
Want: 90%

 

[Xenigma]

I'll save the sentimental one for last.

Chorus Men - 50%
I'm ever so close to just abstaining here because there are incredibly mixed signals on this character's chances. Let's start with the pros: he was one of the Gematsu characters, a leak that was seemingly disproven by Chrom's exclusion yet now more than ever just looks like outdated information, he's appeared in leaks related to the credible ESRB leak, we've seen a Sneaky Spirit in Smash Run, and in general it can be argued that Rhythm Heaven deserves a character. However, with the Ice Climbers looking more and more like they may be cut, it's also incredibly difficult to believe a trio would have made it through development, none of those leaks (Gematsu included) are proven credible, the Sneaky Spirit no longer acts as proof of a RH character if ICs fail to make it in despite the polar bears being in Smash Run, and the Chorus is hardly the only option for a RH character. I'm going to leave it right in the middle because I could so easily see it going either way at this point.
Want - 0% - With Duck Hunt Dog and Bowser Jr. in the clown copter now in, my patience for gimmicky newcomers is wearing thin. Maybe a strong implementation can win me over, especially given I'm a fan of music games, but at this point I'd strongly prefer that effort going towards more popular, "traditional" candidates like Ridley or Isaac.

Dixie Kong - 50%
I don't want to overestimate the impact that the recent leaks have on her chances, so I'm going to keep her rating relatively conservative, but it's really looking now like she will have made it in and that her rival K. Rool will have not. Donkey Kong has long been speculated to receive a third character after the smash hit Donkey Kong Country Returns, she's been playable in several DK games including the recent Tropical Freeze (whereas K. Rool has been largely sidelined for the past decade), and she would be fairly easy to build by using Diddy Kong as a base. Now, none of the leaks building upon the ESRB leak that list her have proven credible as of yet, but the trend is rather curious and seemingly confirms my suspicions that she's a strong possibility for the roster. Very curious to see if she makes it in or not.
Want - 90% - My favorite possibility for a DK newcomer, she's admittedly not as unique a candidate as her rival K. Rool but I nevertheless think she'd prove a very fun inclusion.



Isaac - 5%

The day I've long been dreading as an Isaac supporter finally came this past Friday: Shulk is confirmed to be in SSB4, and between what him and Robin bring in terms of character and moveset, not to mention a leak that fills quite a few slots beyond that, it really doesn't look like the base roster has room for Isaac anymore. That said, it's not the end of the road for him just yet, and given this will be the final time I get to rate Isaac, I'll try to give him a proper send-off.

Let's start with something simple: why should Isaac be in in the first place? The original pair of Golden Sun games were quite successful, earning critical acclaim and selling roughly 3 million copies between the two with the original becoming a top seller with the launch of GBA games on the Wii U eShop. To help compare, each game sold more than Xenoblade Chronicles and the pair has more physical copies sold than the entire Mother/Earthbound series. They even got a follow-up with Dark Dawn much later on the DS, and while it didn't see the same level of success, it still proved a solid entry that left the door wide open for more entries. Isaac stands out as the best Smash candidate for the franchise as the original protagonist, a focal point of the original epic story, and one of the few characters to appear in all three games. He even appeared as an assist trophy in Brawl, and Little Mac has already proven that ATs can be promoted to playable. Best of all, he has massive moveset potential: swordsmen have already proven a reliable trope for Smash, but he also has lots of powerful Earth psynergy, the ability to pull from other elemental attacks, a small suite of generic psynergy like Move, GS's Djinn system, the ability wield axes, and, of course, epic summons that would make for amazing Final Smashes. Not only does Golden Sun deserve to be in Smash, but Isaac brings so much to the table individually that his inclusion would be a great addition to the roster.

Unfortunately, while Isaac has a lot going for his inclusion, he has quite a bit more working against him, and it's only gotten worse over time. For example, while 3 million sales is nothing to sneeze at, it's still a modest success for a pair of Nintendo games, particularly on the extremely popular Gameboy Advance. As another point of comparison, Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire, released a year later, would go on to sell roughly 16 million copies. Further, The Lost Age sold quite a bit less than the original, while Dark Dawn sold less than a million. Perhaps it's telling that Camelot Software Planning, GS's developer, has largely been relegated to creating Mario Tennis and Golf titles in the 12 years since the original games. Dark Dawn failing to live up to its predecessors is also a rather weak legacy for the series in the time between Brawl and SSB4, giving Sakurai little reason to increase Golden Sun from its previous representation of an assist trophy and a song. Speaking of GS's Brawl representation, it's notable that while Isaac hasn't been deconfirmed as a returning AT, Golden Sun on the whole hasn't been referenced at all in pre-release materials or even the recent leaks for SSB4. Granted, Isaac was a secret AT in Brawl, and it seems unlikely that Sakurai would completely leave out Isaac after being an AT last time around, but the simple fact is we have no proof the series will appear in SSB4.

Finally, let's talk about Isaac's biggest bane right now: competition. Given the information we have about the roster thanks to the ESRB leak, we have some 4-5 slots left on the roster, and we've got some 5 newcomers and a veteran rumored to take those spots (Chorus Men, Ridley, Dixie Kong, Impa, Mach Rider, Mewtwo), four missing unique veterans (Ice Climbers, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake), and two very notable missing semi-clones (Lucas, Wolf). Throw in any other popular candiates like K. Rool and that's a ridiculous amount of competition for very few slots in the base game. Simply knowing there are a good 2-3 characters in the running per available slot, a niche character like Isaac already has an uphill battle ahead of them. Further hampering his chances is the presence of not one but two newcomers that have similar appeal: Shulk and Robin. Both fulfill the trope of JRPG protagonist, both are swordsmen, and both have mechanics similar to the Djinn that Isaac could employ (Shulk's stances, Robin's tomes). You could even draw more direct parallels like Robin also using spells to complement his sword or Shulk also using a magical weapon (he has Monado, Isaac has the likes of the Sol and Gaia Blades). Maybe neither character has an absurd summon for a Final Smash like Isaac would, but for the most part his abilities end up being surprisingly redundant to those shown by other newcomers. To that end, it's easy to see why Sakurai may choose to pass up on him in favor of more unique or popular characters.

Perhaps the single biggest boon for Isaac at this point is that he hasn't been deconfirmed, despite so many assist trophies from Brawl already being confirmed to return (or, in Little Mac's case, his promotion to playable confirmed). It's the same kind of logic that keeps Ridley in play and indeed makes him look like a strong contender. Sadly, while speculation for the purple space dragon is kept alive and well thanks to regular teasing from Sakurai, never mind his presence in character lists supposedly building off the ESRB leak, Isaac and Golden Sun in general have received no such attention, and for a franchise that appears to be otherwise dormant, saying that no news is good news is dangerously optimistic. I'll keep hoping that maybe Isaac can sneak onto the roster as his inclusion remain plausible, but at this point, I imagine fans like myself will have to look forward to DLC to help make him a reality.

Want - 100% - My most wanted newcomer by far.

...that's what I've said every time we've rated him, but I'll elaborate a little more today. Have you ever played a game that made you love an entire genre? Back when the Gameboy Advance first came out, I was a young gamer whose only experience with RPGs was Pokemon (because in the late 90s/early 00s what kid wasn't playing Pokemon?), with everything else RPG seeming boring and unapproachable. Now, Golden Sun first caught my eye when it got stellar reviews in Electronic Gaming Monthly, and as a fan of the magazine with a GBA and little much else to play at the time beside Mario and Castlevania I ended up curious as to why they liked it so much. Convinced my parents to pick it up for me, and I was very quickly hooked and wondering why the heck I wasn't playing more games like that. I remember quickly moving on to the Breath of Fire II GBA port after that and of course Golden Sun: The Lost Age later on, and I've played dozens of RPGs since then and like to think I'm a big fan of the genre. Golden Sun rather radically changed my evolution as a gamer, and naturally I'm extremely attached to the series as a result.

Now, Isaac doesn't really need to be in the roster now. Shulk fulfills a very similar role as a fan-favorite JRPG protagonist, and Robin arguably steals his uniqueness as a magic-wielding swordsman. Between the two of them, they effectively cover what Isaac brings to the table. However, even if Smash doesn't need Isaac, I don't think that takes away from Isaac being an amazing inclusion. Between his elemental skills, Psynergy, varied weapons, and amazing summons, Isaac would make for a ridiculously awesome Smash character that even non-fans could easily appreciate, and the sentimental value he brings to Golden Sun fans like myself is off the charts. Even if he doesn't make the base game, I'll be cheering for him to make DLC, and SSB5 after that if worse comes to worse. Sakurai, please!

 

[a smart guy]

Let's set the music:

Isaac:
Chance: 10% His chances have been decimated by Shulk. Honestly, he's still probably an AT.
Want: 50% I don't need him with Shulk in.

Dixie Kong:
Chance: 10% For some reason, I think DK is going to stay at 2 reps. Dixie could have gotten in if Tropical Freeze was considered, but I think that was too late in development.
Want: 10% I would rather have returning clones first.

Chorus Men:
Chance: 65% If the Ice Climbers aren't in, I'll change my avatar to a crying polar bear. If Ice Climbers are in, then Chorus Men wouldn't be that hard to implement. Personally, I think we'll get what the original text leak said: Ice Climbers, Wolf, Lucas, and Chorus Men, with no other newcomers.
Want: 30% They're not my favorite.

 

[Ornstine]

Dixie Kong:

Chance - 20% She is behind King K Rool so the only way she will be in if hes in first. Clone characters cannot be the new character in a franchise unless someone of much more importance has already been announced. for example Dark Pit is in as a newcomer because Palutena is already in so he doesnt take her spot. Lucina is in because Robin is already in. Dr Mario is in because Rosalina and Bowser Jr are already in. Sakurai goes for the unique fighters first then if he wants to just throw in a clone he does just that because it takes minimal effort to make a clone compared to a whole new character obviously. Its a low chance were gonna get 2 DK reps but hey it could happen. She has a bigger chance for DLC in my opinion

Want - 0% Dont care at all for her. All i want is King K Rool. Never liked her character too much anyways. Plus if she does get in does anyone really want a clone of a character as annoying as diddy? I sure dont. 1 automatic banana launching chimp is enough for me.

Chorus Men:

Chance - 50% Sneaky Spirit is in smash run and Gemetsu has been mostly right besides Chrom giving them a very good chance but since Gemetsu is outdated the chours men could have been scrapped around the beginning just like that diddy dixie duo in brawl for being too hard to program 3 models and hit-boxes into one character and all that jazz. The fact that ice climbers have a high chance of getting cut hurts their chances ALOT basically ice climbers and rhythm heaven both have enemies in smash run Sneaky Spirit and Polar Bear but if Ice Climbers might be cut and have a enemy in smash run that means a series can have a enemy in smash run and still have 0 characters making the Sneaky Spirit seem to not help Chorus mens chances that much anymore and plus how Ice Climbers are probs being cut because they are to hard to program on the 3DS same thing can apply to chorus men. BUT We have no idea how they are going to play so they might not have 3 characters on the screen at one time who knows... Or the rep can just be another rhythm heaven rep like Marshall im not to sure so im gonna say 50% chance just be on the safe side

Want - 50% They seem fun! I never touched a rhythm heaven game in my life so i have no idea what they would do but just their design looks very funny and adorable a music based moveset could be very cool and unique but their still not my top list of characters i want. i wouldnt mind if they never made it in.


Issac -

Chance - 15% Just doesnt seem like ANOTHER sword wielding bunchy hair heroic typed male swordsmen would be a newcomer not after Shulk and Robin already in. But i could see him being cool and unique but realistically we got our magic swordsman. i mean theres always room for 2 but i never played a golden sun game so what would i know lol. He hasnt been shown as an assist trophy so theres always hope but it just seems like Shulk and Robin kinda stole the spotlight. He has a pretty good chance for DLC tho.

Want - 30% Seems cool i liked the idea of him being a character until shulk got announced then i thought another sword character would def be pushing it he still seems like his magic and characteristics can make a cool character so i would not mind him getting in at all hes just not one of my favs anymore.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Isaac:
Chance:40%
Definitely a good choice for our next new IP, and he hasn't been deconfirmed yet, but he was a secret assist in Brawl and that's his ultimate downfall right now.

Want:55%
He'd be cool, but I wouldn't miss him if he wasn't playable.

Chorus Men:
Chance:10%
As seen before, Gematsu is unreliable, so we can't really trust it, but on their own, they get 10%

Want:40%
I don't really see a big appeal to them.

Dixie:
Chance:50%
Her best chance is being a clone of Diddy as of now, which is entirely possible.

Want:50%
I don't really care either way.

 

[StrangeMann]

Dixie Kong
Chance-75%
Want-50%
K. Rool fans, I'm so sorry; I love you guys, but I'm pretty sure Dixie Kong is the more likely DK rep at this point in time. If we get more newcomers out of the remaining 5 slots, Dixie kong will take a spot. It's a shame because I would much rather have K. Rool, but if our only option is Dixie for a New DK rep, we'll take her.
Chorus Kids
Chance-50%
Want-75%
If Ice climbers are cut, we WONT be getting Chorus Kids. Chances are, like Ice climbers, they were planned during one point in development. Ultimately though, they were most likely scrapped after difficulties with ice climbers. It's a shame-after thinking about it a while,they seemed like a really cool addition to the roster too, with a rhythm based moveset.
Isaac
Chance-15%
Want-65%
I hold no fondness to the Golden Sun series, but I still feel awful for golden sun fans. Chances are, with the amount of newly rep'd franchises, Isaac wont squeeze in with the others for this installment. He would probably carry an extremely unique gimmick too.

 

[Chandeelure]

-Isaac:
Chances: 1%
Want: 10%

-Chorus Kids:
Chances: 20%
Want: 50%

-Dixie Kong:
Chances: 70%
Want: 40%

 

[Spazzy_D]

-Isaac
Chance: 10% - Great chance as DLC though
Want: 95% - Really want Isaac, but Shulk and Robin have sated my hunger for a unique swordsman

-Chorus Kids
Chance: 35% - Still think a rhythm heaven rep was at least planned at one point
Want: 75% - They could be really interesting

-Dixie
Chance: 75% - If the leak doesn't represent all playable characters, then Dixie and Mewtwo are the most likely in my mind
Want: 60% - Not a huge fan, but I would probably like her more then Diddy.

 

[Nimbostratus]

Again, I find myself in a rush. I had time to put more thought into this, but alas!

Isaac
Chance- 15%
Want- 100%

Chorus Men
Chance- 30%
Want- 35%

Dixie Kong
Chance- 15%
Want- 50%

 

[Pureownege75]

You're free to rate him however you want, just want to make a quick correction. Mother is a dead series. F-Zero is a dead series. Golden Sun is NOT a ****ing dead series. Its last game was four years ago, that's hardly consideration for it being "dead." If Golden Sun is dead, so is Metroid and Star Fox was... until a new game was announced.

Honestly thought he'd been out of the game for much longer than that. My bad

 

[jaytalks]

You're free to rate him however you want, just want to make a quick correction. Mother is a dead series. F-Zero is a dead series. Golden Sun is NOT a ****ing dead series. Its last game was four years ago, that's hardly consideration for it being "dead." If Golden Sun is dead, so is Metroid and Star Fox was... until a new game was announced.

I prefer the term dormant to dead series. We've constant expect a string of releases of series, but that's not how game developers work. People complain about the dormancy of F-Zero, but they also fail to comment on the absolute lack of futuristic racers in general, which is probably related to that dormancy.

For a series like Mother, which is primarily driven by Shigesato Itoi, it hasnt has released probably related to that. If we look at games as art, we shouldn't expect a mandatory release within every generation even. Game should be built around ideas, not cycles. Or we could have Nintendo series be farmed out like Assassin's Creed every year or whatnot (nothing against that series, just first thing that came to mind).

Sometimes a series needs to rest. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Other times, sales are in decline or just flat out suck. Video games aren't cheap to make unfortunately. As to that affecting Isaac chance's: is Isaac's series in a better position than in pre-Brawl times? No. Is Isaac as a character in better position? No.

 

[Retroend]

Isaac
chance: 25%
want: 100%

Chorus Men
chance: 50%
want:25%

Dixie Kong
chance:50
want:25%

 

[Groose]

F-Zero is a dead series.

F-Zero will rise again... you'll see!

 

[LasermasterA]

F-Zero will rise again... you'll see!

So will (the) Golden Sun

Perhaps the single biggest boon for Isaac at this point is that he hasn't been deconfirmed, despite so many assist trophies from Brawl already being confirmed to return (or, in Little Mac's case, his promotion to playable confirmed). It's the same kind of logic that keeps Ridley in play and indeed makes him look like a strong contender. Sadly, while speculation for the purple space dragon is kept alive and well thanks to regular teasing from Sakurai, never mind his presence in character lists supposedly building off the ESRB leak, Isaac and Golden Sun in general have received no such attention, and for a franchise that appears to be otherwise dormant, saying that no news is good news is dangerously optimistic. I'll keep hoping that maybe Isaac can sneak onto the roster as his inclusion remain plausible, but at this point, I imagine fans like myself will have to look forward to DLC to help make him a reality.

Want - 100% - My most wanted newcomer by far.

...that's what I've said every time we've rated him, but I'll elaborate a little more today. Have you ever played a game that made you love an entire genre? Back when the Gameboy Advance first came out, I was a young gamer whose only experience with RPGs was Pokemon (because in the late 90s/early 00s what kid wasn't playing Pokemon?), with everything else RPG seeming boring and unapproachable. Now, Golden Sun first caught my eye when it got stellar reviews in Electronic Gaming Monthly, and as a fan of the magazine with a GBA and little much else to play at the time beside Mario and Castlevania I ended up curious as to why they liked it so much. Convinced my parents to pick it up for me, and I was very quickly hooked and wondering why the heck I wasn't playing more games like that. I remember quickly moving on to the Breath of Fire II GBA port after that and of course Golden Sun: The Lost Age later on, and I've played dozens of RPGs since then and like to think I'm a big fan of the genre. Golden Sun rather radically changed my evolution as a gamer, and naturally I'm extremely attached to the series as a result.

That was an amazing way to put it. I can see why you saved the sentimental for last. To be honest, it was a similar case for me as Golden Sun was one of the first RPGs that I played and it has really influenced me a lot. It might not be the best game or even the best RPG ever but it holds a very special spot for me due to the nostalgia. It is the game that really got me interested in RPGs as well. For me though it was my friend who got me in the game and ironically he has moved on from the series, while I am here rooting for Isaac in the game!

Sakurai, just announce playable Isaac already! It is one series that deserves a representation even on the sole basis that it had some of the best games on GBA.

 

[JaidynReiman]

F-Zero will rise again... you'll see!

I'm sure it will, but as of right now its a dead series. Or perhaps we can go with "dormant." Golden Sun can still hardly be considered "dead" by any means, though.

So will (the) Golden Sun

 

[Gotann]

ISAAC:
Chance: **
4 years is absolutely not enough to claim that a series is dead. Also the last Golden Sun game was released around the end of 2010 and Sakurai apparently finished planning the roster around early 2012. So at the time that he was working on the roster it was definitely alive.
I personally feel that his chances are better now compared how they were during the Brawl era. Even if Sakurai decided to not put him in the roster at release there's still high chance that Isaac was on his mind, and considered him. Especially since Isaac was present in Brawl. He is at the very least a strong contender for upcoming DLC.
Want: 100%
I played the first Golden Sun awhile ago and I quite enjoyed it. Two of the big reasons why I'm interested in Isaac is because I love characters with earth elemental attacks/magic, and he has so much moveset potential.
I also love the music in Golden Sun. Now that Motoi Sakuraba is working on Smash again, I hope he gets to work on more music from Golden Sun.
It's pretty awesome to see that there are still so many fans that love the series and hope to see it get a playable rep in Smash. After so many years of waiting I hope that dream finally comes to reality for them.

CHORUS MEN:
Chance: **
I can't say much about their chances. There is a enemy from their series in Smash Run though. It could mean something, or nothing at all.
Want: 75%
I don't know much about Rhythm Heaven. In fact I only knew about the series and the characters because of the Gematsu Leak.
Only reason I want them is because it'll give an unrepped series a playable character. Smash Bros is about all these different series clashing and fighting each other.
That may be asking for too much, but I feel that series like, Wars series, Custom Robo, Golden Sun, Chibi-Robo, Rhythm Heaven should all have a playable rep for this game.
Ever since Melee there's been more of a focus in adding more to already repped series (plus adding retros). Which is fine, I completely understand that. I also understand other new series getting characters before those ones.
But now that they have the opportunity to add more characters as DLC, I hope more unrepped series gets some good representation.
Although if only one more unrepped series was allowed to have a playable character, I'd rather have one from Golden Sun.

DIXIE KONG:
Chance: **
I could see Dixie being the new DK rep for this Smash. I agree with the people who say that DK needs more reps compared to other series.
Want: 55%
Platformers are my favorite video game genre (right after whatever Smash is suppose to be), so I have to say that I actually like the Donkey Kong Country more than any series I mentioned above. However, again, I'd rather see unrepped series get at least one playable character. I'm pretty satisfied with the representation of DK (I'm more worried about DK getting a new stage for the 3DS to be honest... :/ )
I like Dixie more than K. Rool. But I'd be more interested to see what Sakurai can do with K. Rool. Though I wouldn't really mind either if we're getting a new DK rep.

**It's a bit difficult to give any character a fair rating for their chances, so I won't. I'll just say that we've been hit by many surprises this generation. Many thought it was likely that we were getting Chrom for our new FE rep, that we were only getting 1 Mario newcomer, that characters like Toon Link and Ike were getting cut, and many other things. A lot of things are not for sure likely or unlikely.
Roster from the leak could be the final one, but I'm still hopeful. It's pretty much guaranteed that DLC is happening, and I find that those three characters have a good shot at being DLC.

 

[Groose]

Isaac: 1% chance and 75% want
Seeing the newcomers that were leaked made me give up hope in Isaac for some reason. Although I've always had him pegged as one of the more likely characters, something about the set of characters we've gotten so far just makes me doubt him--he doesn't seem to fit whatever pattern has been laid out before us. It's tough to express, but let me say that I'd doubt his odds even if you told me we had a few more newcomers in stock (and of course I believe we know them all, so that doesn't exactly help).

In terms of want? He's never been one of my most wanted due to a lack of personal connection, but getting a popular character that can bring a franchise into the spotlight is never a bad idea.

Chorus Men: 1% chance and Abstain Want
Oh, the irony! After Gematsu, I still strongly believed that there would be a Rhythm Heaven character. I used one argument--we haven't seen any series without a playable character get enemies in Smash Run, so the Sneaky Spirit implies there would be a Rhythm Heaven character.

However, apparently we DID see enemies in Smash Run from a franchise: we had pictures of enemies from the game Ice Climber! Had I known that the Ice Climbers were going to get cut, I would have been able to predict the lack of a Rhythm Heaven character, but alas. I still find a Rhythm Heaven character to be one of the most likely characters in the case we haven't seen them all, but I do feel the roster we've seen is final.

Dixie Kong: 1% chance and 100% want
No, I am not abandoning my allegiance to the King. He's still my most wanted newcomer. Only one thing has changed--I now know that he'll be my most wanted newcomer for the next Smash Bros. game. I've accepted that he's not going to be playable in this game (well, I suppose there's a chance of DLC, but I'm not really thinking about that). Considering the main thing holding me back from supporting Dixie was the thought that she'd end my hopes of K. Rool, and my hopes of K. Rool are already ended, I now have nothing against her. She's one of my favorite characters, and I loved her game, so why wouldn't I want her in? As long as she's unique (which is certainly possible), I would wholeheartedly welcome her.

Still, her chances seem pretty darn slim. We've seen the stage list. DK didn't even get a new stage in the 3DS version. Ouch. It's pretty clear to me that the only saving grace the series has is the sheer number of Smash Run enemies it has attracted--other than that and Bigfoot, I don't think it will be getting much new content. DLC is a completely different ballpark, but I heavily doubt that we'll see a DK newcomer in the launch version.

DAY OVER

YEAH, GROOSE FINALLY SUPPORTS DIXIE. GET OVER IT.​

 

[Groose]

Isaac
18.35% chance
69.29% want
Poor Isaac. He's always been a popular character, and at the point where I joined in on this speculation, it didn't seem like he had a lot in his way. Then Shulk exploded and became borderline memetic, and Isaac was forced into the passenger's seat for the rest of the ride. With Shulk confirmed and a very large part of the roster leaked, faith in Isaac has disappeared--yet the passion of his fans has not died. I salute you all. Particularly @ Xenigma .

Chorus Men
30.76% chance
40.60% want
BLA! BLAAA! BLA! Yeah, I don't have much to say about these guys. Still, if when I make a chronicle of Smash 4 speculation (using the archives of this thread as a basis, of course), these guys will have a chapter to themselves. Their story has been the most interesting of any character, and their fans have truly been taken on one rollercoaster ride.

Dixie Kong
42.17% chance
52.87% want
Dixie has always been a bit of a polarizing character. Actually, I take that back. Dixie has always been a character whose scores depend on how many Kremlings show up on a given day. She's got a strong fanbase, but there has always been a large group of people who see her as a threat. In the end, the spunky monkey has the last laugh; her want score is positive, and her chance score can't possibly be beaten by her nemesis. Can it?

So, who wants to tell sad stories and get all depressed? A lot of you? GOOD! Today we're talking about three (well, four if you include Nana) of the brave souls who seemingly gave their roster spots in order to assure that the game launched on time. Or did they? Please rate the Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf in chance and want. I thought I'd have to throw in a warning about being considerate here today, but you guys have done so well the last few days that I don't even need to. Nice work, everyone!

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Ice Climbers

Chance: 35% - Sakurai said that the Ice Climbers were giving him technical difficulties and he has not given us feed back yet on how they are handling.

Want: 90% - I really like them in the game and love their moveset. Seeing their return would make my day.

Lucas

Chance: 45% - It depends on whether or not Mother/Earthbound is getting only one rep/playable character this time around, but I do think that Sakurai found a way to get him in.

Want: 75% - I don't mind him one bit. He is not one of my personal favorite characters, but he sure does have a fun moveset to use.

Wolf

Chance: 56% - Nothing has been heard of the Star Fox franchise since the Great Fox PoTD was shown. Wolf's chances are up in the air, but I think his chances are about 56%. No official word from Sakurai has been given on Wolf's stance yet in SSB4.

Want: 98% - One of my favorite villains of all time, or rival character if you prefer, who I always liked his moveset being a quasi clone. I say Wolf should come back and with his Down B and B move changed to give them more diversity to Fox.

 

[UnicornDemon]

Ice Climbers- 20%
Want- 70%

Lucas- 15%
Want- 5%, I don't want him back. I prefer a roster where every character is significantly unique. Even though he had some interesting smashes and aerials, his specials were too similar to Ness's.

Wolf- 15%
Want- 5%

 

[Deleted member]

Ice Climbers, Lucas, Wolf

Chance: 50%

I could go either way for all three characters at this point.

Want: 100%

The more I think about it, the more I don't want to see them go.