Rate And Discuss Their Chances: Closed

[Jhonnykiller45]

Isaac:
Want: 2.9
Likelihood: 2.7

I'm indifferent when it comes to him, though, other Nintendo RPG reps could take his place.

Nominations:
Black Shadow x2
Roy x2
Mach Rider

 

[Starphoenix]

@Starphoenix: If you feel as Isaac has absolutely zero shot of being playable (which your post seems to imply), I'll put your score down for a 0 in likelihood, as that is the lowest you can go.

I'll go to sleep now.

Give him a one for now. Zeros, in my mind, are reserved for crap like Travis Touchdown or Missingno. Isaac has positives, but since my argument was for why I gave him a low score I wanted to explain the rationale. Believe me, my scores are intentional.

 

[N3ON]

Yay! It's finally Isaac's day! So far the scores for want/likelihood have for the most part been what I suspected they might be, relatively average.

Onto my opinions on Isaac (I'll try to keep it condensed).

I believe that Isaac has a relatively decent shot for Smash 4. Actually, I think the scores for Isaac are in keeping with his chances, relatively average. I don't think he leads the pack as one of the most likely characters, but nor do I believe that he is a longshot and unlikely candidate. I think there is a fairly good chance that he might get in, but there is a fairly good chance that he won't either. His popularity (especially in Japan) has waned, but he still has enough to be a noticeably requested character. As his series slips into another hiatus, and sadly declines in quality (which hopefully but not necessarily will be fixed with future installments), other candidates from unrepresented series catch up to him in popularity and likelihood, although some of them also suffer from unsure futures. However, as Star stated, I believe his greatest competition comes from Shulk and Xenoblade. While I would love for both characters to stand and be judged on their own merit, I believe (though hopefully I'm wrong) that Sakurai will decide that unrepresented RPG series only need one newcomer, which might very well be Shulk. Honestly, they both have points in their favor. In my perfect roster, I would have both of them, but sadly I think for SSB4 it will be one or the other.

Truthfully though, I think that Isaac's popularity no longer reflects his chances. While he would definitely bring an interesting and unique moveset (that much can't be denied), inclusion is not based solely on the ability to be interesting and different. Even though he is currently in fifth place on the poll, I believe that he is far from the fifth most likely character (not that the poll indicates chance anyway). That being said, I still think that he has a decent chance, and while I would not be surprised if he wasn't on the roster, there is still more than a somewhat decent chance he will be. He still has a fair amount of popularity and one of the most successful Nintendo franchises not currently represented. Plus Sakurai does not always make his roster decisions based on current relevance, moreso series impact in general. Also, if Golden Sun does receive a new game eventually, I believe his chances will once again increase (even if once again he has just a supporting role), although it might not be until after the Smash 4 roster is decided, in which case it would have no effect on his current chances.

Hmm, that wasn't as short as I had hoped it'd be.
Anyway:

Want: 4.9
Likelihood: 3.5

Nomz:
x2 Shulk
x3 Krystal

Starfy prediction: 2.9

 

[SmashShadow]

For isaac
Want: 4.5
Likelyhood: 3.6

He gets pluses for being the face of GS and being an assist trophy but his son is stealing his spotlight.

Starfy pred: 2.8
It just doesn't seem like an extreme amount think care to play as him.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

Smash boards is a cruel cruel place for tiny robots.

Isaac: don't know much about him, but I remember a Golden Sun game I played and it was a blast. But that's when I was little, so I'm not sure it's the one Isaac was in or not haha

Want: 3.2 somewhat, indifferent. But I have a positive outlook on many characters except a rare few

Likelihood: I'd say 3.7. He and the franchise was recognized in Brawl, so he has a decent advantage.

Prediction: 3.2 for Starfy

And I should stop doing nominations now...... Lol

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Isaac is one of those character I have wanted since pre-Brawl. He seems to scream uniqueness in both move set and play style. In all honesty, I am surprised he wasn't playable in Brawl but there are certain things working against him.

1. He doesn't have a huge Japanese following. While he is popular in Japan; he has a much larger following in the West. Golden Sun, in general, seemed to do better outside of Japan.

2. Isaac is a 2nd party character. While Pokemon is also considered 2nd party, Pokemon is one of Nintendo's flag ship series. Golden Sun is a franchise that has only seen games released on the DS and isn't considered a fairly popular Nintendo franchise.

3. Golden Sun and Nintendo. As mentioned before, Golden Sun has a long history with Nintendo that started int he early 2000's but hasn't branched much. Golden Sun saw two games released for the GBA and a recent game for the DS. Lost Age an Dark Dawn was a seven year gap which is quite a long wait for a new game. Since Golden Sun is not a celebrated and highly popular franchise, relevancy becomes an issue.

4. While not a problem in Brawl, Isaac has run into competition with his younger son, Matthew. Matthew is Issac's son and, therefore, retains much of Isaac's abilities, psyenergy, and summons. Matthew is newer and may become the face of the series. I heard this somewhere but the first two games were created to set the story of the Golden Sun mythology and Dark Dawn would be the start of the major storyline for the series. This could mean that Matthew would replace Isaac as the face of the series.

However, Isaac still has a little fight in him. As of right now, isaac is still the mascot of the Golden sun series and thanks to his AT status, he is generally known in both the Nintendo and Smash community. Additionally, Isaac has a deep well of attacks/techniques/psyenergy to utilize for a move set. He could be a character that combines Venus psyenergy attacks with swordsmanship OR forgo the sword idea and stick exclusively to Venus psyenergy. Or if we want to take it further, he could switch between the two.
As well, Golden Sun has a lot to offer to the Smash franchise such as stages, items, music, ATs, and even incorporating the Djinn system which would allow players to summon monsters to help fight with them.

Isaac has competition from Matthew and, IMO, it's a 50/50 on who will get in. However, judging from his AT appearance and Isaac's mascot status, I will to bet on Isaac as the franchises playable character unless a fourth Golden Sun game featuring Matthew is released between now and Smash 4. Isaac has mediocre/average support in Japan compared to the fairly large support in the West. However, Sakurai is obviously aware of the popularity and uniqueness of Isaac since he not included Isaac as an AT but incorporated his Move technique as his attack. Furthermore. Sakurai is aware that Move does no damage in the Golden Sun series and applied that into Smash. Thus, Sakurai did his homework like a good little boy.

Isaac has fairly good chance to become a playable character and a 50/50 chance of representing Golden Sun at this point in time. What happens between now and Smash 4 will determine if Golden Sun would be represented and who will: Isaac or Matthew.

For Isaac:

Want: 4
Likeliness: 3

Starfy Prediction: 3.50

Nominations:
Skull Kid x2
Saki x2
Shulk x1

All S's.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'm giving Isaac:

Want: 3
Liklihood: 3

There was a point I would have liked Isaac, but it's been SO long since I played Golden Sun I can't remember a thing about it. Maybe it just wasn't memorable enough for me...

TBH, I'm sure if Nintendo wants a focus on Golden Sun, they'll stick with the new hero, Matthew for the ongoing series. Though I never played the new Golden Sun.

I gave him a 3 because he did appear in Brawl, and does seem to have some popularity.

Nominate Tom Nook x5

Starfy prediction: 3

 

[Deleted member]

@Starphoenix: Okay then. Just wanted your input.

@GoldenYuiitusin: I don't think I remember seeing much evidence that Ridley was popular. ChronoBound did state Ridley came up a few times, but not often.

Also, Dark Dawn had good reception, Not great, but still good.

I'll give Isaac a 4 in likelihood. This could change based on the day, but I believe he is the most likely misc. newcomer. Will explain later, need to get to work.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Isaac? Hm... Haven't played Golden Sun, but unlike with Chibi I actually know some of his abilities.
I give him a 3 in want.

I give him a 4.5 in likelihood. He seams really popular.

Nominations:
Saki x4
Bandana Dee x1

 

[FlareHabanero]

Issac is one of those characters that has a fair share of support and potential but may be overlooked due to Golden Sun being a minor franchise or some else out prioritizing him. Still Issac is still a solid choice, but not a absolute guarantee.

Want: 4.06
Likelihood: 3.76

For Starfy I predict a 3.22

Nominations are Zoroark (x2), Megaman (x2), and Little Mac

 

[yani]

Issac is definitely a character that many people want to see, and for that I would be happy with his inclusion too. However, I also feel he has missed the boat. Although he does have AT status and if we do get a Golden Sun rep it would definitely be him. I'll give him a 2.5 for likelihood.

Shulk x 5

 

[SmasherMaster]

Issac I think is a great character and a great rep for his series. Most likely misc. character after Little Mac, but he is consider a classic character

Want: 3.5
Likelihood:4

Nominations
Pokemon Trainer
Princess Daisy
Little Mac
Bandana Dee
Krystal

 

[DakotaBonez]

Isaac
Want 0.1
Likelihood 1

If Golden Sun actually got a rep it'd definitely be him.

Plus he definitely seems mega popular which is what's important.

Nominations

Ness x5

 

[Rif-Raf]

Uh yes? I'm pretty sure if they want to beef up series for SSB4 Golden Sun would be the first. Young or old Isaac would fit right in to the Smash Universe.

Want: 6
Likelihood: 3

 

[jigglover]

Rif-Raf, it is out of five, and six is more than five, you can vote five and no more.

 

[Sqid]

Hooray, Isaac!
Want: 5
I started playing the Golden Sun games because of Isaac, and the song remix from GS (Battle Scene/Final Boss). He has really caught my interest as a character with his half magic, half swords/other weapons style of fighting. I don't know, there's just something about Isaac that makes me want to play him in this style game. I will probably main him, especially if he turns out to be powerful.

Now for likelyhood:
First, Isaac and Golden Sun were both included in Brawl. Isaac was an AT, and other miscellania from Golden Sun such as the song I mentioned was included. That at least shows that Golden Sun as a series can have a prescence in a Smash game. +1 in favor of Isaac.
However, there IS the is the issue of how many misc. series charcters Sakurai wants in. I think he could go with two, which in my preferred roster would be Little Mac and Isaac. Also, Sakurai has stated something about 50 characters being enough, so there's that.
There's also the issue with him being more popular in the west than Japan, but I don't really think that's much of a border.
Matthew may raise a problem, but I still think of Issac as the face of Golden Sun, and unless, as someone else stated, another GS game comes out before SSB4 with Matthew as the protagonist, then this should not be an issue. To counter this, it has been stated that no GS4 is currently in production.
Anyway, I think Sakurai can see Isaac for the potential character he could be, and with his unique abilities and popularity, I think Isaac has a pretty good chance.
I give Isaac a 4.29.

 

[kisamefishfries]

ISSAC!
want: 5
likeliness: 4
Golden sun is over due for a rep but I think the latest game might be enough to get this under appreciated rep a spot.

nominations
Lloyd irving x3
Paper Mario x2

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac

Took me awhile to do this, but now into Isaac's odds.

Really, the only negatives I can think of at the moment is his relative lack of Japanese support, which is only a minor hindrance as I fully expect Sakurai to look more towards the West and that he faces a load of competition. But then again, that goes for every possible misc. series as well.

Speaking of competition, since when was Isaac and Shulk unable to co-exist in a Smash game? If Sakurai finds both of them worthy of a spot, he'll add both of them and I doubt the choice is either Isaac or Shulk for a new RPG series, but rather Sakurai has to pick between Little Mac, Mii, Isaac, Shulk, and Saki for a spot. All of whom can get in and all of whom are good choices.

Isaac to this day remains highly requested. He's definitely among the Top 2 most wanted for a misc. series and possibly even the most wanted right now. Psynergy powers that Isaac possess contain a ton of move set potentials and more than enough to set him apart from the rest of the fighters.

I also fail to see how being from a console franchise suddenly makes your odds better, when Pokemon was (IIRC) completely handheld exclusive before Smash and is mainly associated with handheld games to this date. Not to mention this is coming on the 3DS, so I doubt that being a handheld-exclusive franchise is a negative. Honestly, I don't think it really matters whenever or not you're handheld or in a console.

As for "competition" between Isaac and Matthew, I think that if we get a Golden Sun rep, it will be Isaac. While Matthew may very well soon become the face of the series, right now, that spot is reserved for Isaac, who has appeared in all three games. Main character in the first, large supporting role in the second, and a small role in the third. He's the character most people think of when they think of Golden Sun and since a fourth game isn't in development yet, it's best to go with the one people are most familiar with instead of the most recent one. The most recent one is Matthew, the most familiar one is Isaac.

As for 2nd party, not really sure how that is suppose to affect Golden Sun. It couldn't have been one of the characters Sakurai mentioned in regards to characters that had legal issues since he was in Brawl as an Assist Trophy. If Sakurai were to approach Camelot with Isaac being playable, I doubt they would object.

I feel as Isaac has a very good shot of making the roster. He has everything needed to get into the game and I don't see much going against him getting in. Not a shoe-in, but definitely a candidate not to be underestimated.

Just my thoughts.

 

[MelMoe]

Nominations

IceClimbers x5

Voting & Discussing

Isaac

Personal Bias: 5
Likelihood: 4.2

Golden Sun is such a great series. I see no reason not to include Isaac as a newcomer. His Venus adept abilities will bring a new, awesome playstyle that everyone will enjoy. Isaac is one of my top choices for smash; I really hope he makes it.

So he's basically a ground-type Pokemon, right.

Yes please.

I don't see Shulk as much competition. It is possible for both of them to be in smash. It's not like we are only allowed to have one RPG character. However, Matthew is Isaac's biggest obstacle. After GoldenYuiitusin pointed out that Isaac was the star of prequels & Dark Dawn is the start of the main story, I got a bit worried about Isaac. I still think it is highly likely that a Golden Sun protagonist will be in SSB4, I just don't know who.

Prediction

Starfy: 3.7

 

[Starphoenix]

Speaking of competition, since when was Isaac and Shulk unable to co-exist in a Smash game? If Sakurai finds both of them worthy of a spot, he'll add both of them and I doubt the choice is either Isaac or Shulk for a new RPG series, but rather Sakurai has to pick between Little Mac, Mii, Isaac, Shulk, and Saki for a spot. All of whom can get in and all of whom are good choices.

I'm willing to make a Toise style bet that if Shulk is playable Isaac will not be, and vice versa. It isn't that they can't coexist, but they won't. Simple as that.

I also fail to see how being from a console franchise suddenly makes your odds better, when Pokemon was (IIRC) completely handheld exclusive before Smash and is mainly associated with handheld games to this date. Not to mention this is coming on the 3DS, so I doubt that being a handheld-exclusive franchise is a negative. Honestly, I don't think it really matters whenever or not you're handheld or in a console.

Pokémon is Pokémon, it was a phenomenon. You would have been better off using Fire Emblem as an example to make your point.

 

[Deleted member]

Still, the point being is, I don't see why Sakurai would care that Golden Sun is from a handheld franchise. If Sakurai did see being a handheld (or in Pokemon's case, known mainly for) franchise as a problem, we wouldn't have eight Pokemon characters playable throughout the three Smash games and there wouldn't be so many handheld Assist Trophy.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Still, the point being is, I don't see why Sakurai would care that Golden Sun is from a handheld franchise. If Sakurai did see being a handheld (or in Pokemon's case, known mainly for) franchise as a problem, we wouldn't have eight Pokemon characters playable throughout the three Smash games and there wouldn't be so many handheld Assist Trophy.

I feel it's worth noting that Kirby also started on a handheld and has had most of his games on a handheld.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I think either Isaac or Shulk getting in is one thing, but I don't think the fact that GS is a handheld series has anything to with Isaac's chances. I think characters get in on their own merit, with the system, whether a home console or portable, not affecting their likelihood or chances.

 

[Starphoenix]

Since most people don't seem to understand what I'm saying I'll just drop it right now. I'll leave it at this. The more damning indictment against Isaac is that he "couldn't quite make it" as a playable character, and not much has happened to change that.

 

[MelMoe]

What about Matthew? Is ur argument any different?

Isaac is more popular than Matthew so Isaac could be chosen instead.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's best to leave it as it is given that we've made our points and I don't expect either of our opinions to change. Matthew is something that we should be discussing when he comes up here later.

 

[MelMoe]

Yeah, I suppose ur right. Matthew hasn't even been nominated once. I could just start dumping my noms on him, but I want to get others out of the way first.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Isaac


Isaac has becomed one of the most popular newcomer requests during these recent years. His series has quite unheard but very huge cult fanbase, and it's no wonder due Golden Sun being one of the most iconic and well-known RPQ-series on Gameboy Advance. While he has some obstacles still to deal with (most discussed with others), I think he has slight seniority on Shulk for him waiting for longer to get in as playable and Shulk just had appeared which would make leaving out Isaac for him pretty much ironic (because Monolith Soft was just accepted some years ago for Nintendo and Camelot's been with 'em longer. Unless it's about popularity. But Golden Sun had much longer history with Nintendo compared to XenoBlade)

Isaac's moveset would of course be halfsword and halfmagic, which could make him very versatile and interesting fighter overall. I dunno about the Djinn's tho, but he'll definitely use mostly ground-based attacks to punish mostly attackers who try to approach him by foot.

I'd really like to see him in included since it would bring GS more known to other people and definitely we'd see his friends also included in some form (Assist's, maybe?). GS deserves it anyway as Nintendo should start to really give some recognition to it's more unique and less mainstream series with such a loved fanbase and great legacy overall.

Want: 4.6
Likelyhood: 4.0

Predicting Starfy to get 3.7

Noms:

Lip x3

Saki x2

 

[Deleted member]

Today was a rather concentrated battle. The supporters pushed full sail ahead for Isaac's inclusion while the detractors concentrated on their efforts to tear down Isaac. Flame wars had began as both side light up pitchforks against each other as red and dark green ember lit up the sky. Isaac's show of Psynergy had stopped amazing the crowd and he walked to a corner to stay there until the day ended.

After a good night sleep, Isaac was woken up by an announcer. He told him that he had earned a 3.33 in likelihood and 3.62 in want. The scores were okay, but nothing fantastic, which is not something Isaac was used to. Nevertheless, he didn't care and strolled his way out of the stadium. People stood there, waiting for what else would come.

Before he left that day, he gave Astro (SSBF) a gift; five extra nominations, a gift that Astro happily accepted.

Just as Isaac left the stadium, Starfy was barely seen at the door, looking out to the mob. He was afraid, but willing to prove to the community that he was brave and show himself to the public. He walked nervously, not sure what was going on, but when he entered the platform, the crowd look at him sternly. His trial had began.

Day Eleven has began! It will end at 9:10 PM CST. Today, you are predicting Shulk's score tomorrow and rating Starfy today. I will work on the flavor while you play this game.

I'll get the ball rolling with a 2 in want and a 0.5 in likelihood. I'll say more after other get a chance as I may be convinced to raise Starfy's score, but unless someone can prove to me that Sakurai has bought a Starfy game after Brawl (which probably means he played it), he's not getting in.

I will nominate Mega Man, Toad, Roy, Ghirahim, Mach Rider, Mii, Lucario, Paper Mario, Geno, and Krystal.

 

[Deleted member]

Just to remind people that Day Eleven has began.

I predict that Shulk will get a 3.89 tomorrow.

 

[N3ON]

I think Starfy has a decent chance, but not a great one. While he still seems to be regularly requested in Japan, until he receives a new game his popularity will continue to dwindle (as it would for most semi-regular series that now seem to be on hiatus). However, the fact that he is commonly requested in Japan (not on the same level as Mewtwo, Roy, Megaman, etc, but still pretty regularly) is a definite point in his favor. Plus he was popular and successful enough for his series to make it out of Japan, where contrary to belief, it didn't do that badly. Right now I think the main point against him is honestly that he hasn't had a game for a while.

I'd like to know where people got the idea that Sakurai dislikes Starfy though. Unless there is some article or interview where he outright says it, then I think it's just overblown theory and speculation. However, if there really is a legitimate source (and not just speculation), then one, I'd like to see it lol, and two, I'll shut up and probably change my prediction for him.

In any case, although there are points for Starfy, I think he is currently outclassed by competition from other unrepped series.

Want: 2.5
Likelihood: 2.5

Nomz:
x3 Krystal
x2 Zoroark

 

[Deleted member]

@N3ON: We only know that Starfy was heavily requested on one website by ChronoBound. ToiseofChoice's finding indicated that he was rarely requested. So it's hard to say how requested he is, but I would guess more than Isaac or Little Mac but less than Saki or Shulk.

As to why I could see Starfy's Assist Trophy status as a problem, it's not that Sakurai hates him (otherwise, he wouldn't be in at all), but rather that Sakurai doesn't see him as a fighter and may not know what he could do.

 

[Deleted member]

Starfy:

Want: 2.5
Again, another character that I don't really care about one way or the other, so middle ground.

Likelihood: 2.5
Middle ground here as well, given that Starfy HAS broken the mold after Brawl with not only another well-received game, but one that was released outside of Japan for once.
The downside is, Sakurai doesn't seem to have that great of an idea for Starfy, and it doesn't look too promising with his Assist being near useless.
Starfy's requests seem to be at middle ground as well.

So I guess middle ground all around for this psuedo-starfish.

 

[Starphoenix]

Want: 5
Likelihood: 1

He shares the same problem as every other Assist Trophy. He "couldn't quite make it as a playable character." Whatever that means, I don't know, but it probably is not going to change much even with The Legendary Starfy having been released internationally. One misconception needs to be cleared up. Sakurai does not hate him. If he did I don't think he would even be an Assist Trophy. That idea is one of those urban legends that get cycled around the internet ad nauseum. Whatever Sakurai's position, I don't see Starfy moving beyond Assist Trophy status.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Starfy, in the end his game ended up feeling like a kirby knockoff. I was surprised to see him appear as an assist trophy and I wonder if nintendo will ever release a patched version of brawl with his name spelled correctly. (Stafy!?!) I was glad the game got a western release but was quickly dissapointed in the demo I played and it single handedly made me swear to never purchase a DS. Better games had been done on the gameboys.
Seeing as how the only experience I had was through an awful demo, I'm probably not the best judge of his character. His design is memorable and adorable and he'll probably appear in some form in the next smash bros, I doubt as a fighter.

Want: 0
Likelihood: 1

Nominations

Ness x5

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Starfy:
Want: 1
Likelihood: 1.8

While Sakurai has said that he dosen't "hate" Starfy, he has said that he is not meant to be a fighter.
And the only thing really going for him is his fanbase.

Nominations:
Black Shadow x2
Waluigi x2
Roy

 

[---]

Want: 2
Likeliness: 2

Probably better off than he was Pre-Brawl. But I really just don't see him being good for a playable status or even adding that much to the game that MK and Kirby haven't already, and that's what I'm guessing Sakurai thought too. And no Sakurai doesn't hate him.

 

[BKupa666]

Want: 2
Likelihood: 1.5

I do think his chances have risen since Brawl, due to the decreasing size of the newcomer pool, but that's not saying a whole lot. His fanbase seems to pale in comparison to those of other misc. series characters, and if the roster is indeed as restricted as people speculate, I don't think one of the slots would go to Starfy, a rather cookie-cutter C-list protagonist with less to offer than several others.

I wouldn't mind him becoming playable, though, because he at least has a series to give him some degree of importance, and he would likely be accompanied by a fantastic new underwater stage.

 

[Deleted member]

Want: 2
Likeliness: 2

Probably better off than he was Pre-Brawl. But I really just don't see him being good for a playable status or even adding that much to the game that MK and Kirby haven't already, and that's what I'm guessing Sakurai thought too. And no Sakurai doesn't hate him.

To be fair, Starfy does have a lot of move set potentials as there has been a few move sets for it. Ultimately, though, it comes down to Sakurai's opinion on him and as we all know, what he thinks of a characters decides whenever or not it gets in. From what the Assist Trophy status gave us, Sakurai clearly doesn't realize Starfy's potential and I doubt he wants to do research just to appeal to a small fan base.

 

[DakotaBonez]

I suspect he'll be represented in the form of the first underwater stage. That'd be tight.