Social Radiant Hero of Legend: Ike Thread

[Banjobeast158]

On Battlefield, fresh Utilt falls just short of a kill against Zelda at 113% one minute in, dash attack does manage to kill at 88% at the edge with what appears to be inward DI at 2:16. Nothing solid we can use, of course, but some interesting food for thought, if anyone wants to attempt to see how that shapes up with Sm4sh.

Not sure if this can be applied to the situation, but I'll state it anyhow. Sweet spot dash attack could kill center stage Mario on FD at 140% (sour spot 178%) no rage/DI; I assume they will be pretty similar though, if the DI was inward then it miiight be stronger. Up air in Smash 4 KO'd at 125% on grounded Mario under the same circumstances. Hope it helps!

EDIT: Just realized you said Up tilt...oops. Assuming the same circumstances, again, Up tilt KO'd Mario at 106% (sour spot 135%). I think people here have said the damage of Up tilt was nerfed, so seeing the percent difference is expected. Another thing to keep in mind is that Zelda was around 7 or so weight units less than Mario in smash 4. I'd bet on the weight values being very close to the same in Ultimate.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Arrei : In Smash 3DS / Wii U, the u-tilt would KO Mario at 106% damage with the clean hit (there are no sourspot hitboxes during the clean hit period), while the late hit would make the KO at around 150% damage. However, this data is only true when stale-move negation is not taken into account, and based on your findings, it seems that the u-tilt's KO potency has been nerfed if it KOs Smash Ultimate Zelda later than Smash 3DS / Wii U Mario.

 

[Arrei]

Yeah, a nerf was near guaranteed - even if its knockback values are unchanged losing 2% damage in exchange for its FAF buff was going to reduce it by quite a bit, and this would appear to confirm it did not receive any knockback buffs to compensate for the damage reduction. I was just wondering if we could get some (shaky) preliminary info on its new kill potential by comparing it to Smash 4 vs. Zelda.

The video also ended with a grounded Usmash kill on Zelda at 91%, but I suspect we won't be able to use that to discern if Zelda's weight has changed any since that's probably already a fair few percent into the move's kill percent threshold in both 4 and Ultimate.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Another thing that we'll have to keep in mind is that certain attacks could be weight independent (the attacks would act as if the target's weight is set to 100). As far as I know, all attacks that have the bury, paralyze, or dizzy (stun) effects are weight independent, but only the bury effect ignores knockback resistance. And ever since Smash 3DS / Wii U introduced the Set_Weight(Flag=0x1) command, attacks no longer need to have a specific effect to be weight independent.

 

[MERPIS]

Quick question Ike bOiS
What makes people think Ike is top tier in smash ultimate?
I don't really understand why his buffs were so significant to him?

 

[san.]

If by top tier you mean the top 20ish characters,

There are a few reasons why people think he's much better.

• The new uair has a lot more range. This covers some blind spots that he had before and creates a myriad of new opportunities when combined with his other aerials. Switching between uair and fair is sufficient to create a DI mixup (DI away for uair and in for fair)
• His main neutral tools, nair and fair, have improved startup. Bair, his quickest aerial, was also made safe on shield. Nair has 8 frames of landing lag, only 2 more than the lowest of 6 (Ryu's nair doesn't count)
• He benefits a bit more from the global changes such as the jump squat (Ike and Robin benefits most), landing lag updates(unsafe->safe aerials), and run to tilts/smashes (good/buffed tilts, buffed dsmash)
• Ike already used to be somewhat unsafe without good timing, so the parry mechanic allows him the opportunity to punish the safe moves of fast characters if needed.
• Many recoveries were nerfed, but Ike's was buffed with improved sideB cooldown with a minor nerf to his upB. Ike also has tools such as dropzone aerials, counter, and his buffed eruption to take advantage of slightly flawed recoveries.
• Now that the final roster has just about released, many other characters didn't seem to get too many buffs, especially among the upper echelon characters. We can't know for sure, however, if a character that wasn't changed much still gets a ton of synergy with the new game mechanics.

Among many of his mains, many believe that he is being overrated, especially if he is in a top 10 spot. In my opinion, it's tough to say right now, since it will depend on what kind of poor matchups exist for him. I think that the changes really helped him combat some of his worse matchups that took advantage of his (lack of) safety on shield, inability to hit above him easily, and sluggish jump squat.

 

[hermes]

We were thinking about ike being cut before wii u version. Then we saw ike, other fe characters and buffs after buffs throughout years. Nintendos love for ike fascinates me ^^ Ike deserves it, he is the best protagonist in the series imo

 

[Idon]

We were thinking about ike being cut before wii u version

Nah, everyone know how popular Ike is. I can't imagine him ever getting the axe

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am totally making Ike a secondary again! He's looking awesome, and real fluid. It's far less hard reads-the character now, and he actually got a playstyle now that really fits him. He retains his power, but got more speed and that new U Air just looks fantastic. Always had loads of fun with him despite being poorly designed in Brawl and Smash 4, but now he actually is more treatening I might use him even more than before!

 

[Inawordyes]

Nah, everyone know how popular Ike is. I can't imaginec him ever getting the axe

Well yeah, he's a sword-user.

 

[MERPIS]

Well yeah, he's a sword-user.

He's the spearhead of the fire emblem franchise in smash as well.

 

[Idon]

Well yeah, he's a sword-user.

Yeah, but in RD, he can get DA AXE.

 

[Stealth309]

Guys, if it hasn't hasn't sunk in at this point, let it sink in now.

Bair is safe on shield (when properly spaced, of course)...

We will be spacing...with bair...

Like I said, just give it a minute.

 

[MERPIS]

Guys, if it hasn't hasn't sunk in at this point, let it sink in now.

Bair is safe on shield (when properly spaced, of course)...

We will be spacing...with bair...

Like I said, just give it a minute.

I'd rather fair

 

[Stealth309]

Still a good choice imo.

 

[Arrei]

Personally, I'm more interested in hopping around throwing Nairs like a frenzied windmill, with its improved combo ability. Bair seems to remain as powerful as it ever was but it still seems to have awful FAFs and both of those things together mean we won't frequently get much combo potential out of it. Staling on shield also means using it too much will hamper its ability to kill when we need it to.

 

[Stealth309]

Yeah, you're probably right. I just had another look at the frame data and I realized bair got an 8-frame landing lag reduction and not 8 frames of landing lag. I had the two mixed up for some reason.

 

[DrKatz]

Hello all,

I’ve lurked around here a lot and had an account in early Smash 4 days, but I created a new one and want to get involved again.

For anyone interested, I’ve been putting together some frame data comparing Project M Ike and Smash Ultimate Ike. For those of you who have played PM, you might be pretty excited. Take a look at this:

Project M Ike versus Smash Ultimate Ike Landing Lag:

Nair - 9 to 8 frames
Fair - 13 to 14 frames
Bair - 9 to 11 frames
Up-air - 12 to 9 frames
Dair - 12 to 14 frames

Jumpsquat - 5 to 3 frames

Keep in mind that this is with L-cancelling all of Ike’s aerials in PM. What this means is that some of Ike’s aerials in Smash Ultimate have even less endlag than L-cancelled aerials in a Melee Mod (Nair and Up-air). Fair is almost identical in both games which means it will feel like L-cancelled Fair 100% of the time and be practically impossible to punish if spaced correctly.

At the same time, with a faster jump squat, Ike’s ground to air mobility might be faster (Despite QD shenanigans). I’m just excited for this news since I loved Ike in PM, but he felt too sluggish in Smash 4. I hope this makes the character feel faster, fluid, and closer to his PM counterpart.

 

[XDaDePsak]

I don't know anything about Project M, but if Ally used PM Ike then he must have been a worthy enough character.

 

[Arrei]

https://twitter.com/trueRyuga/status/1068055011324772357


Ryuga messing around with Ike against resident combo-food Ridley. The amount of Nairs this man can throw out now, I referred to him as a "frenzied windmil" in jest earlier but this guy is coming straight out of Don Quixote.

 

[Idon]

I don't know anything about Project M, but if Ally used PM Ike then he must have been a worthy enough character.

Imagine an Ike that could jump cancel quick draw and walljump.

He was FLYING across the screen and smacking people with his hunk of steel.

 

[Xuan Wu]

What color palette for Ike does everyone here plan to use?

For me, I see myself switching back and forth between his original ranger design and the Greil one.

 

[Idon]

What color palette for Ike does everyone here plan to use?

For me, I see myself switching back and forth between his original ranger design and the Greil one.

RD Ike and Greil Ike occassionally maybe.

 

[Arrei]

I'll probably stick with base color Hero Ike. A shame Lord Ike and Vanguard Ike didn't get in as costumes...

 

[NintendoKnight]

I'll be rocking either Default Hero or Red Hero. I might see how the Black Knight coloring looks.

I'll probably stick with base color Hero Ike. A shame Lord Ike and Vanguard Ike didn't get in as costumes...

I would never NOT use Vanguard if it were in.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Griel or nothing lol

 

[Idon]

Yeah ok, so fighting pikachus are still a pain in the ass

Man, I wish they let me angle my ftilt.

 

[Banjobeast158]

That 17% back air was juicy. Also Nair looks broken, I love it!

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Yeah ok, so fighting pikachus are still a pain in the ***

Man, I wish they let me angle my ftilt.

Pikachu's looking like he's going to dominate in Ultimate honestly, great recovery and edgeguarding tools, along with all the buffs he gotten.

Ike's new voice for attacks is going to take some getting used to. A lot of his attack grunts sound super similar, not to mention Roy sounds older than him now, lol. Not to say Greg Chun is bad, (I like his regular spoken lines) but Jason's potrayal of Ike was much manlier despite the cheesy delivery at times.

 

[Stealth309]

Still, you gotta love Ike's humility...

> 2-stocks opponent
> "Your skills are...remarkable."

 

[Arrei]

I think the voice might just take some getting used to. I always thought Jason Adkins' Ike was too soft-spoken, but Greg Chun seems to delivering his lines in a similar way so I guess that's just the way they've decided to portray him. Speak softly and carry a big sword stick, as it were.

 

[Idon]

I wonder if Ike's voicelines change between the two incarnations or if it's just the inflection like in the combat taunts and grunts.
Like one will get "Your skills are remarkable" and someone else would get "You'll get no sympathy from me."

Or maybe they just flat out cut "I fight for my friends," which, iconic as it is, is ****ing terrible.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

His voice is much better when you use his RD costumes.

 

[Stealth309]

Got some running dtilt footage right here @ 1:05 and 1:47. It's pretty insane.

https://youtu.be/YU1UjS0aSjY

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Got some running dtilt footage right here @ 1:05 and 1:47. It's pretty insane.

https://youtu.be/YU1UjS0aSjY

"Don't stand in my way."

I really like this new victory quote.

 

[Idon]

Wow those guys sucked lmao.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

"Don't stand in my way."

I really like this new victory quote.

Seems like the horizontal ledge snap distance was buffed for Aether as well 2:05

His voice is much better when you use his RD costumes.

After watching the Ike vs Ken match, I agree.

 

[Arrei]

Quick Draws at point blank, Eruption while chasing... I see there's much we'll have to teach to newcomers adopting the Radiant Hero.

It looks like the spike duration of Aether's downward plunge might have been improved?

This ended up spiking Ken as he clung to the ledge, which seems obviously a greater distance than the point blank range it had previously?

 

[Idon]

When you're an Ike main your two best friends are going to be forward air, or back air.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Quick Draws at point blank, Eruption while chasing... I see there's much we'll have to teach to newcomers adopting the Radiant Hero.

It looks like the spike duration of Aether's downward plunge might have been improved?

View attachment 181183

This ended up spiking Ken as he clung to the ledge, which seems obviously a greater distance than the point blank range it had previously?

IIRC, all of Aether's downward plunge spikes.