R.I.P. Kjell Anders "Nappy" Peterson.

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Sounds like the next few months could be very game changing for the community.

 

[False]

I'll be happy to tell you guys that I've worked on a 0 - 159 death shieldbreaker combo with diddy/snake that's only 13 seconds.

I'm planning on using it for the combo video, so I don't want to release it to the public. Contact me for the private link, because I must show off my ego.

 

[etecoon]

no ruleset favors snake, anything that is good for snake is even better for IC's, falco, and diddy

removing things like brinstar is just, finally, making a stage list that doesn't favor MK. I think he should be banned anyway at this point but the fact that people stubbornly held on to these ******** stages and wanted him banned first reflects all kinds of terrible on them

 

[Kuro~]

The Unity Ruleset heavily favors all high tier characters. I'm heavily against the banning of Brinstar/Rainbow because of the effect it'll have on the metagame for characters such as Diddy/Falco who traditionally do not play well on that stage. Linear based characters will receive a buff in that case. Snake does pretty well on both stages, as long as it isn't against MK. =p

Actuaaaaalllly i've thought it out and tested it in tourney. IF i get port i already have a pretty damn good advantage AND i basically get to narrate the two stages to choose from. With the current starter list this is ALWAYS in my favor cuz i get 3 strikes. Which means i can make it end up on YI, Lylat, PS1, or CS. All great snake stages and actual stages snake considers cp in some matchups. If i don't have port i get even greater ability to narrate stage choice.

no ruleset favors snake, anything that is good for snake is even better for IC's, falco, and diddy

removing things like brinstar is just, finally, making a stage list that doesn't favor MK. I think he should be banned anyway at this point but the fact that people stubbornly held on to these ******** stages and wanted him banned first reflects all kinds of terrible on them

Wrong. I can strike SV, BF, and FD every time and it just leaves ICs hanging. Every other stage is just bad for them in this mu. Falco i also get better stages than cuz i already striked his best 3 and leave only stages that can hurt him. The only exception being diddy who is pretty good at ps1,CS, and YI. Snake is better at YI, even at ps1, and i'm not too sure about CS.

 

[etecoon]

IC's were, are, and always will be a pocket character that you need to at least platoon with someone else, if you're stage striking with IC's as your only possible threat, you were doing it wrong to begin with

 

[Kuro~]

But...i'm snake. Almost every stage is in my favor over theirs.

 

[Attila_]

ics are a bad character anyway.

their placing on the tier list is heavily unjustified by terrible (for the most part) high tier, and difficult mid tier mus.

the unity ruleset... probably helps mk more than anyone. it helps us too, though, because we gain a few extra counterpicks (ps2, cs as a starter, and in some instances, rc), without really losing anything; brinstar has always been a terrible stage for us but its on pretty much every ruleset anyway. aside from wario/marth and perhaps olimar, no one would be taking us to rc anyway.

the option of avoiding flat stages altogether is helpful against falco, ics, diddy kong, doesnt really change other mus much.

it does, however, benefit mk heavily in almost every way.

bad move for the rest of the community, without being that bad for us.

in that sense, i don't really support this ruleset; take out brinstar and i'd be happy enough, though.

also, diddy ***** us on yi, btw.

 

[Kuro~]

Eh i don't feel that way at allll. YI helps me vs diddy a bunch. It really helps me in that mu. YI is also my go to cp for many characters because i've learnt a bunch of special ways to use the stage to my adv.

 

[Attila_]

You lose edgeguarding potential.

Grab/jab miss on the slopes.

Shyguys make bananas broken.

You can't defend a ground approach with nades.

Side blast zones are really close.

Edges screw up dthrow and ftilt.

Why are we good there?

 

[Kuro~]

You lose edgeguarding potential.

Grab/jab miss on the slopes.

Shyguys make bananas broken.

You can't defend a ground approach with nades.

Side blast zones are really close.

Edges screw up dthrow and ftilt.

Why are we good there?

I see that stage give us edgeguarding potential not the other way around.

If he's on the slope your in the advantage. You can easily pressure him onto the ledge.

How?

How can you not defend a ground approach? You can control 50% of the stage with the platform. And nades are much harder to avoid here as well. It's easier to vertically kill.

Side blast zones help us quite a bit. Seeing as you should really be relying on nades much more your ftilt will be either completely fresh or pretty close to it.

Uh sorry what?Clarify.

Slopes help with certain snake tricks that are actually beneficial as well.
They also let you edgeguard with ftilt and dtilt and uptilt since that slope on the edge changes the angles of the hitbox.

 

[Attila_]

Diddy shouldnt get hit by tilts offstage, he's got more than enough options to get to the ledge. Normally we can pressure him there, but here the nades roll Off and c4's hitbox goes into the stage. That and he gains wallhugging as a recover option.

The slopes... We can't grab or jab him if he's near the edge, and only ftilt 1 will connect. That's pretty terrible.

And if he's in the middle of the stage, thrown bananas will always go over his head.

Nades on the platform don't stop his approach at all, since he can glide toss under them.

And 9/10 we kill vertically, while he almost always kills horizontally.

I like this stage in other mus, but definitely not this one (I consider halberd bad in this mu for mostly similar reasons).

 

[Kuro~]

Diddy shouldnt get hit by tilts offstage, he's got more than enough options to get to the ledge. Normally we can pressure him there, but here the nades roll Off and c4's hitbox goes into the stage. That and he gains wallhugging as a recover option.

The slopes... We can't grab or jab him if he's near the edge, and only ftilt 1 will connect. That's pretty terrible.

And if he's in the middle of the stage, thrown bananas will always go over his head.

Nades on the platform don't stop his approach at all, since he can glide toss under them.

And 9/10 we kill vertically, while he almost always kills horizontally.

I like this stage in other mus, but definitely not this one (I consider halberd bad in this mu for mostly similar reasons).

#1 snake can actually gimp diddy here pretty safely with bair due to the positioning of the stage and how diddy recovers.

#2 ok but he has to be VERY close to the ledge for that to happen which makes it easy for snake to force him to want to move.

#3 Jump cancel toss downward is effective in that situation. However that being said a diddy in the middle of YI is begging to be pressured with nades and c4s. He can't avoid nades on Yi like he can on sv or bf. They are much harder to simply get through or avoid trading with.

#4 c4 covers around 30-40% of the stage. With strategic positioning you can easily make some clever traps. For example YI platform never tilts the same way twice. You use this to your adv. by zoning yourself towards the side that will tilt up and place a c4 on the opposing side b4 positioning yourself. You now have a way to control his approach and have nades go to him due to the slant. If travels by platform the c4 is in place and you can PC-->grab or nair safely.

#5 THis stage helps us kill vertically and horizontally. And sets up for easy bair gimps and kills and surprise nair kills.

#6 tilts are just another option. You can easily mortar place nade and then use bair to edgeguard pretty safely here. We gain a way to kill without losing any one in particular.

 

[Attila_]

I could repeat myself but cbf. Each to their own. I'll play on Fd anyday.

Although bair doesn't gimp the barrel cause he slides up the stage...

 

[Kuro~]

To each his own lol. Ehh i've pulled it off multiple times so ik bair can easily edgeguard diddy on YI. especially if he barrels. Then all you have to do is grab the the dang ledge after going out and bairing.


also, what's cbf mean?

 

[Attila_]

Can't be ****ed lol

Diddy shouldnt be getting gimped against snake unless he messes up; he's got to many options.

Gnes/ADHD will never get gimped by any snakes anywhere.

 

[Kuro~]

And yet...

Point is it adds another safe option. An edgeguarding one at that. One that beats barrels AND hump and trades with flipkick...

 

[RaptorTEC]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=308731
Yoshi vs Snake mu discussion.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Why would any Snake pick Yoshi's against Diddy in this MU????

Up-Tilt kills later because of the stage being lower to the ceiling.

Diddy's usually kill with Down Smash out of Naner setups and Forward Smash. Horizontal blastzones are much closer to the stage here. Do the math.

But lets not even go into that. Lets talk about how a giant platform, allows Diddy to safely Z catch, insta throw and pretty much access bananas while mobile and in the air when Snake isn't able to chase him because of his piss poor mobility. The stage isn't that big so we don't have a lot of room to avoid his shenanigans while his banana centered game is essentially boosted.

Yes we can use C4 here but thats like one of the 2 benefits we get here rofl.

We're not good on this stage and Diddy actually benefits more...its not a good mix. We dont get ***** but I think we lose to Diddy soundly here.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

How high does banana's on shield go into the air? DO they go high enough to land on platforms from ground level?

 

[Kuro~]

I think yall are too stubborn and closed minded. I have never had any of those issues vs diddy here and i play some pretty good diddy's. I'll try it out more and such but i'm not understanding the hate at all. For me it's right behind lylat in that mu.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Close minded? This all comes from experience with high level Diddy players also. I guess we have all had our own experiences but I am merely posted what has happened to me as well. And my experience tells me I would rather plan on any other neutral than Yoshi's against Diddy (and in a lot of MUs in general..)

ANY. lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I had a random question about traditional fighters.

How the hell do I block attacks?

 

[Kuro~]

Close minded? This all comes from experience with high level Diddy players also. I guess we have all had our own experiences but I am merely posted what has happened to me as well. And my experience tells me I would rather plan on any other neutral than Yoshi's against Diddy (and in a lot of MUs in general..)

ANY. lol

I use to be the same and till i started going there ALL the time testing new things and ways to abuse they layout. Now i love that stage in nearly half the matchups in the game. Especially falco. I got experience with high level diddy's as well and i just don't see how the stage is bad at all. But i guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I had a random question about traditional fighters.

How the hell do I block attacks?

Hold back on the control stick, standstill, hold triangle or X.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Ha I wonder if it is easier for people to go from smash to other fighters rather than other fighters to smash.

Anyone ever notice how post count seems to have certain phases in attitude for people? Like at first, people asks questions not feeling like they should really contribute. Then they feel like they have an understanding of the game and try to contribute with opinions. Eventually they notice what they thought about the game is actually a lot more in-depth, so there is this period of not really helping out anyone except the really basic stuff (100% correct stuff) because they are not sure they understand the game completely. In the end, people contribute to lively conversation in the end.

 

[F A N G]

I had a random question about traditional fighters.

How the hell do I block attacks?

Holding back is the dumbest way to block attacks. What if I want to stay in place and block? Fricken MvC3.

Ha I wonder if it is easier for people to go from smash to other fighters rather than other fighters to smash.

Anyone ever notice how post count seems to have certain phases in attitude for people? Like at first, people asks questions not feeling like they should really contribute. Then they feel like they have an understanding of the game and try to contribute with opinions. Eventually they notice what they thought about the game is actually a lot more in-depth, so there is this period of not really helping out anyone except the really basic stuff (100% correct stuff) because they are not sure they understand the game completely. In the end, people contribute to lively conversation in the end.

Dude that post thing is so accurate... I think, it is for me at least

 

[Mike2]

don't ever block. take it like a MAN.

 

[F A N G]

But... it isn't Brawl

They have inescapable 0-deaths

Especially on Ammy

 

[Underload]

New thread title ideas, anyone?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

"Aladdin 4: Jaffar Strikes Again"

 

[Darkshadow7827]

Holding back is the dumbest way to block attacks. What if I want to stay in place and block? Fricken MvC3.

I dunno about MvC 3 but SF at least has overheads and grabs.

Edit: oh and chip damage

 

[Yung Mei]

"Aladdin 4: Jaffar Strikes Again Reloaded The Revenge"

fixed

10chars :D

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I see what you did there

Spoiler

I wish I could embed now with that vid

Something with jaffar should be used though.

 

[F A N G]

I dunno about MvC 3 but SF at least has overheads and grabs.

Edit: oh and chip damage

I think MvC has overheads, I don't know too much, there is different heights of blocks.

That too! Can't grab during hitstun/blockstun...

"Aladdin 4: Jaffar Strikes Again"

fixed

10chars :D

I see what you did there

Spoiler

I wish I could embed now with that vid

Something with jaffar should be used though.

I feel like I'm missing something

 

[-Ran]

I can't remember if I posted this in here or not. The numbers are dated back by a month, but it gives an idea of the importance of certain match ups. ;d

Snake

Character Uses Percentage
Snake Ditto 455 7.83%

-1
Meta Knight 1118 19.25%
Marth 348 5.99%
Olimar 166 2.86%
Pikachu 155 2.67%
D3 133 2.29%
Total 1920 33.06%

0
Falco 286 4.92%
Wario 232 3.99%
Fox 120 2.07%
Total 638 10.98%
1
Diddy 303 5.22%
Ice 161 2.77%
Zss 154 2.65%
Toon Link 148 2.55%
RoB 153 2.63%
Pit 107 1.84%
Dk 106 1.83%
Wolf 108 1.86%
Sonic 96 1.65%
Ike 85 1.46%
Shiek 50 0.86%
Yoshi 118 2.03%
Total 1589 27.36%

2
G&W 159 2.74%
Lucario 182 3.13%
Kirby 172 2.96%
Peach 148 2.55%
Luigi 86 1.48%
Ness 44 0.76%
PT 37 0.64%
Mario 90 1.55%
Bowser 29 0.50%
Captain Falcon 26 0.45%
Samus 35 0.60%
Link 61 1.05%
Total 1069 18.41%
3
Lucas 60 1.03%
Jigglypiff 32 0.55%
Zelda 38 0.65%
Ganon 27 0.46%
157 2.70%

 

[Kuro~]

Wow interesting haha.

On a side note: I really hope they put olimar as even next update. That's what it should really be =/


So mk snake marth diddy and falco are the matchups we need to know the most

 

[Attila_]

Wario?

It's definitely not in our favor.

Lose the lead at any time, and it should be game over.

And d3? Lol

 

[Variable]

Wow interesting haha.

On a side note: I really hope they put olimar as even next update. That's what it should really be =/


So mk snake marth diddy and falco are the matchups we need to know the most

Olimar should definitely be even, if not in our favor imho.

These 2 reasons alone could give Snake the advantage. 1. Jab comes out on frame 3 and you can easily jab pikmin away, and 2. At perfect spacing F-tilt out ranges olimar's grab. So basically you can out camp olimar. Just time your grenade pulls in between pikmin and you should be good.

 

[False]

Olimar -> shield grab -> lol i trol u

Olimar -> pivot grab -> lol i trol u


ALSO:


going to KTAR6, hype!

I'll make you guys proud!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I can't remember if I posted this in here or not. The numbers are dated back by a month, but it gives an idea of the importance of certain match ups. ;d

If anything, no match-up really stands out that you wouldn't have already expected. MK is obvious for how many people use him as a pocket MK. Snake is expected for being up there and not extremely difficult to use well.