Q&A Quickplay and Battle Arena

[Sean²]

I used a Wii U pro controller for Smash 4, but I really don't like the button layout of the switch pro controller for Smash so I went back to the GCC. The A button is too far to the right for me to be comfortable pressing it all the time. I like the B button being to the left of the A button, figured it'd be easier to relearn where to go for the C stick than having to remap my controls to something I dislike. I considered the PowerA wireless GC style controller for the extra button, but I've heard bad things about the triggers being even harder to press than the GCC ones and the control stick rubber flaking after heavy use so I've been wary. One day I'll get around to doing a spring mod on my GCC but I have to be brave enough first because I don't want to ruin my only one.

 

[Xquirtle]

I used a Wii U pro controller for Smash 4, but I really don't like the button layout of the switch pro controller for Smash so I went back to the GCC. The A button is too far to the right for me to be comfortable pressing it all the time. I like the B button being to the left of the A button, figured it'd be easier to relearn where to go for the C stick than having to remap my controls to something I dislike. I considered the PowerA wireless GC style controller for the extra button, but I've heard bad things about the triggers being even harder to press than the GCC ones and the control stick rubber flaking after heavy use so I've been wary. One day I'll get around to doing a spring mod on my GCC but I have to be brave enough first because I don't want to ruin my only one.

The wii u pro con was a piece of trash tbh. The new one is way nicer. Like just as high quality as a ps4 controller etc. Buttons are a bit bigger than the wii u as well, but you're still stuck with the joycon style layout. The one thing that its really beats gcc on is rolling your jump input into a special since your secondary jump button should be right next to your special. So like Pichu offstage down B, you can run off then just roll your thumb from Jump to down B and itll work perfectly every time.

That being said, its probably super awkward if you're a Y jumper on the GCC. I was always an X jumper so the pro con can kinda emulate the shape of X,A,B on the GCC better (imo).

 

[Sean²]

Yep, Y jumper here. The reason I could stand the Wii U controller is because the X button was right above the A button. I could probably use the pro controller for other games, just not for Smash. The Xbox 360-style layout just doesn't work for me in this game.

 

[Voti]

So I created a rule set offline with the stage selection set to random, legal stages only, and put said rule set as the rules of my online battle arena. The problem that occurred was that even tho only legal stages were showing up (as intended), for some reason it seemed to favor stages like yoshi's island which showed up literally 4 games in a row, after which town and city showed up once, then yoshi's island again for 2 games, then fd, then yoshi's island again and etc. You get the point.

I tried creating the rule set and the arena again which didn't help, the stage selection favored 1 or 2 stages again, for example in 30+ matches i didn't play pokemon stadium 2 once, whereas yoshi's island showed up at least 10 times, even tho i made sure multiple times that EVERY legal stage was on, and that the people i was playing with had their preferred stage as "random". I even tried taking the stages that were showing up the most off the rotation, but as a result the same thing happened, just with another stage (Kalos 6 times in 10 matches). I have also tried setting the selection to "in order" but for some reason it simply just doesn't work as intended.

Basically I want to know if anyone else is having this problem and if there's a solution for it? i really can't be asked with having to choose a stage after every match simply because the random selection is bugged.

 

[Sean²]

I've had this once in a while, but not super regularly. Like I'll keep getting Yoshi's Island and Smashville even when I'm sick of monoplats. Usually if it happens I'll get maybe 1-2 stages a couple extra times over the rest, but have never had it completely ignore all the stages except for a select few.

I have seen it where someone else's stage selection will glitch and it will remain on their old selection, no matter what else they choose, until they leave the arena and come back. Could be related. Or RNG is just really not on your side.

 

[Voti]

There’s no way it’s rng, i’ve played at least 500 arena matches these past 2 weeks and had the same problem every time. Must be some sort of a weird bug

I've had this once in a while, but not super regularly. Like I'll keep getting Yoshi's Island and Smashville even when I'm sick of monoplats. Usually if it happens I'll get maybe 1-2 stages a couple extra times over the rest, but have never had it completely ignore all the stages except for a select few.

I have seen it where someone else's stage selection will glitch and it will remain on their old selection, no matter what else they choose, until they leave the arena and come back. Could be related. Or RNG is just really not on your side.

i’ve had the same problem for the past 2 weeks and i’ve played at least 500 arena matches during that time, there’s no way it’s rng. Must be some weird bug

 

[Felancius]

This is a topic I don't hear anyone talk about, not even top players, but these are some super glaring issues with Arenas that I think need to be addressed badly, cause it's becoming a genuine issue now, and patches don't really seem to be doing a single thing about them, probably due to how few people are talking about them.

1. The Arena Rotation System is too all-or-nothing. The issue with this isn't noticeable when there's only 2 or 3 players in the arena, but 4 or more you're likely to encounter this. Currently, there are only 2 rotation modes you can pick: Bottom One Leaves and Top One Leaves, but unfortunately, it leads to one of two situations depending on which you set it to. Bottom One Leaves, which is far more common in arenas, very often leads to one single person completely dominating the others in the arena, which basically means it's not only the same opponent every time, but one person gets to play far more. On the other hand, Top One Leaves leads to a similar scenario, albeit less likely, that someone will get absolutely destroyed and really just end up the arena's punching bag. Both of these scenarios have the same core problems: One person gets the most playtime, while the others are just forced to watch for 10+minutes usually, which is quite unfair. The fact that it's only one or the other makes it feel really hostile to uneven playing fields, and in some cases, even discouraging Arenas as genuine practice cause you don't want to deal with the broken ranking system.

2. The Ques are too Stingy. This also is a bit harder to notice when you have only 2 or 3 people, but it can become VERY apparent when the arenas have 4 or more players in the arena. When in the que, if you decide to change characters, stages, or music, or just so happen to try and check the rules, you'll be immediately kicked out of the que and sent to the back, giving the person behind you your spot. I could sorta get why this is in place, it just so happens to be poorly thought out from a developer point-of-view. Why can't it be that when your turn comes up that that's when you pick the character and stage (With a time limit of course to deter AFK/stalling), or why do you have to be punished for simply wanting to change to an alt? All of it ultimately makes us ask one question: Why make large arenas for friend gatherings online far less appealing?

3. Speaking of Rules... This one ties into the previous one, but why is it that you can't check for items BEFORE you enter the arena? Some people use Arenas for competitive practice, so why isn't there an option before entering the arena to see if options are turned on? You have to already be in there to be able to check them, and it can also lead to artificially clogging arenas since some will opt out the moment they see items on, but it won't show up like that to other players.

There's also an issue when it comes to bugs in the arena, but I have yet to personally encounter them so I can't verify those. Regardless, please Nintendo, fix this crap, Online is already really bad as is, and if the devs really care about the casual crowd as much as they say they do, they'll stop ignoring these issues already.

 

[Sean²]

You're preaching to the choir here. It's actually been talked about a lot. Some commonly suggested solutions have been to just allow more than 1 battle to occur at a time or allow your place in the queue to be kept when you're viewing rules, changing stage, or changing character. This is why 2-man arenas are so popular. I only enter public arenas if there's only 1 person currently joined up. Then if more people join and I lose a match, then I'm out of there because I don't want to wait forever.

It would make more sense, that if there's more than 1 person in queue, to be able to challenge them instead of just waiting or watching.

 

[meleebrawler]

These kinds of issues are honestly the only ones I can really get behind in regards to improving online. As long as they exist it's a hard sell to make the quickplay changes most people clamour for, so you may as well try to make them as appealing as possible.

It's very annoying to hear multiple complaints about quickplay that go all over the place with what every particular player wants out of it, yet arenas frequently get ignored, with some of those complaints of the former failing to take account of what the latter does. Get the feeling that even if arenas were amazing, some players would still be too lazy to use them properly.

 

[J.I.L]

This is a topic I don't hear anyone talk about, not even top players, but these are some super glaring issues with Arenas that I think need to be addressed badly, cause it's becoming a genuine issue now, and patches don't really seem to be doing a single thing about them, probably due to how few people are talking about them.

1. The Arena Rotation System is too all-or-nothing. The issue with this isn't noticeable when there's only 2 or 3 players in the arena, but 4 or more you're likely to encounter this. Currently, there are only 2 rotation modes you can pick: Bottom One Leaves and Top One Leaves, but unfortunately, it leads to one of two situations depending on which you set it to. Bottom One Leaves, which is far more common in arenas, very often leads to one single person completely dominating the others in the arena, which basically means it's not only the same opponent every time, but one person gets to play far more. On the other hand, Top One Leaves leads to a similar scenario, albeit less likely, that someone will get absolutely destroyed and really just end up the arena's punching bag. Both of these scenarios have the same core problems: One person gets the most playtime, while the others are just forced to watch for 10+minutes usually, which is quite unfair. The fact that it's only one or the other makes it feel really hostile to uneven playing fields, and in some cases, even discouraging Arenas as genuine practice cause you don't want to deal with the broken ranking system.

2. The Ques are too Stingy. This also is a bit harder to notice when you have only 2 or 3 people, but it can become VERY apparent when the arenas have 4 or more players in the arena. When in the que, if you decide to change characters, stages, or music, or just so happen to try and check the rules, you'll be immediately kicked out of the que and sent to the back, giving the person behind you your spot. I could sorta get why this is in place, it just so happens to be poorly thought out from a developer point-of-view. Why can't it be that when your turn comes up that that's when you pick the character and stage (With a time limit of course to deter AFK/stalling), or why do you have to be punished for simply wanting to change to an alt? All of it ultimately makes us ask one question: Why make large arenas for friend gatherings online far less appealing?

3. Speaking of Rules... This one ties into the previous one, but why is it that you can't check for items BEFORE you enter the arena? Some people use Arenas for competitive practice, so why isn't there an option before entering the arena to see if options are turned on? You have to already be in there to be able to check them, and it can also lead to artificially clogging arenas since some will opt out the moment they see items on, but it won't show up like that to other players.

There's also an issue when it comes to bugs in the arena, but I have yet to personally encounter them so I can't verify those. Regardless, please Nintendo, fix this crap, Online is already really bad as is, and if the devs really care about the casual crowd as much as they say they do, they'll stop ignoring these issues already.

I agree with everything but number 1. Don’t get me wrong, BA are pretty stupid and another reason among many why everyone who worked on this online game system should be fired... but it’s not unfair that the guy who’s good stays on. It just forces you to get good.
meleebrawler i tend to see you here a lot either pushing back on complaints or defending ninetendo online. Do you like this sewer pipe of an online system? Also, the heck is that profile pic. It looks quite disturbing.

 

[~?~]

The general solution to the issue is 2 man Arena, and kick the player you played with when you want a new opponent. This is, as of this moment, the only viable option to curve the issues you mention.

 

[meleebrawler]

I agree with everything but number 1. Don’t get me wrong, BA are pretty stupid and another reason among many why everyone who worked on this online game system should be fired... but it’s not unfair that the guy who’s good stays on. It just forces you to get good.
meleebrawler i tend to see you here a lot either pushing back on complaints or defending ninetendo online. Do you like this sewer pipe of an online system? Also, the heck is that profile pic. It looks quite disturbing.

In a word... yes. It could do more but I'm not going to torment myself and others wangsting about it. I currently sit 4,600.000+ with my favourites and have no trouble getting my competitive 1v1s. I don't get bad lag very often either. That's just my experience of course, and I understand others don't have it so easy. The problem is it also means complaints tend to lack unity & focus, and since most of them are rooted in frustration of not being able to play in a specific way, or even just not letting them stroke their egos, they tend to fail at seeing the whole picture. Zero variance in preferences, for example, would only be a half-solution if you're genuinely having trouble getting matches in the mode you want, as you'd just spend more time in the waiting room instead of playing unrelated matches. And of course arenas make that whole issue kind of moot since they do in fact let you set your wanted rules with no deviation.

The complaints levied towards arenas are the only ones I see as rational for the most part, since I have seen better in games like Monster Hunter (which is also where my lovely Nerscylla avatar comes from) and things like the host leaving dismantling the whole room or not being able to run more than one game at a time genuinely have no excuse. That said however, I've also run into some of the same issues mentioned here in those other games: difficulty finding players wanting the same thing as you sometimes, getting kicked for petty reasons, groups leaving when you were ready for more etc., so some of the annoyance is just human element that's near unavoidable in systems like this.

 

[Felancius]

From what I've found, only 3 characters can really use it in a way that doesn't completely go against their preferred playstyle: Ice Climbers, Mii Gunner, and Ridley, if only due to the distance they can accumulate actually being far enough to make it a reasonable idea to consider.. The change in air dodge mechanics and momentum force you to do it a specific way that you have to practice it a lot to get the full effect, which in the long run you're better off just not doing, especially since with the above mentioned characters, they already can have good combo games without it.

Also, Wavedashing too much gives you a severe lag penalty, so that's also probably a large reason why nobody does it.

 

[GhostM]

The reason why you never really see wavedashing being utilized even in competitive play is because wavedashing isn’t as viable as it used to be. Although it works in the same fashion as it does in Melee, it barely gives you any benefits, as you do not travel as far compared to some characters like Luigi in Melee, who benefitted heavily due to the large wavedashing distance. There are frames after where you cannot perform any ground based attacks, leaving you susceptible to get punished. There are better and faster options to utilize instead of wavedashing, as it is too slow and punishable. I guess wave dashing can sometimes be used, but not in a consistent matter like you can in Melee.

 

[Venclaire]

too laggy tbh

 

[Solana]

For the last 50 or so games literally every match has taken me to Omega stages. I've tried setting preferences and it did literally nothing. This has only been going on the past few hours, I'v had no trouble finding regular battlefields until now. What's going on?

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Don't you suppose Nintendo is so against listening to fans that every single switch owner could all boycott the online and they would just see it as "people don't like online play?"

 

[Cardboard Tube Knight]

It would be awesome if they could do some kind of two battles going on at once and then the two winners fight and the two losers fight or something like that. I don't know how hard it would be for them to implement that, but I have so much less fun in Quickplay than I do in Arenas I am willing to suffer through the problems that do exist to play in them.

 

[Sucumbio]

Don't you suppose Nintendo is so against listening to fans that every single switch owner could all boycott the online and they would just see it as "people don't like online play?"

Too many people enjoy it. We're a vocal minority. Except you of course =P

 

[J.I.L]

Too many people enjoy it. We're a vocal minority. Except you of course =P

Who the heck enoys this online system? they can enjoy smash, but who actuallys enjoys the online gameplay? There's no way we are a vocal minority. We are the vocal majority, albeit the the "vocal" part of the majority is not big enough.

 

[Coolboy]

lol i never played in arenas but it seems to be a pain there as well o.o

 

[Cardboard Tube Knight]

lol i never played in arenas but it seems to be a pain there as well o.o

At least when you screw up in the Arena you don't lose GSP.

 

[Sucumbio]

Who the heck enoys this online system? they can enjoy smash, but who actuallys enjoys the online gameplay? There's no way we are a vocal minority. We are the vocal majority, albeit the the "vocal" part of the majority is not big enough.

Dude there's millions of players vs what 10 posters lol Smashboards is a great place for discussion but it's still an outlier compared to Nintendo's intended core audience.

(don't be a try hard (am totally a try hard))

 

[J.I.L]

Dude there's millions of players vs what 10 posters lol Smashboards is a great place for discussion but it's still an outlier compared to Nintendo's intended core audience.

(don't be a try hard (am totally a try hard))

lol, you think those millions of players like this inept online system? alot of them just don't have a outlet to voice their frusterition of the sutpidity nintendo ultimate gave us with their pathetic excuse of an online system.

Try hard, what? who's trying hard?

 

[Sucumbio]

lol, you think those millions of players like this inept online system? alot of them just don't have a outlet to voice their frusterition of the sutpidity nintendo ultimate gave us with their pathetic excuse of an online system.

Try hard, what? who's trying hard?

Like? Yeah sure I mean every online fighter has a following. I don't play it much anymore myself but that could change quickly depending on what improvements they make. But gsp still goes up... It may reach 5 mil who knows depends on the new new switch sales and Christmas late comers etc.

 

[Grimel]

I noticed that too. I am getting Yoshi's Island much more often than any other stage in arenas. Town and City also shows up pretty often but not as much as Yoshi's.

 

[Sean²]

Who the heck enoys this online system? they can enjoy smash, but who actuallys enjoys the online gameplay? There's no way we are a vocal minority. We are the vocal majority, albeit the the "vocal" part of the majority is not big enough.

The online gameplay is okay, if you find ways to do it yourself and not rely on their matchmaking. Even random arenas are better than matchmaking. Playing with friends or a discord group online that you know for a fact will have a stable connection can play out to be nearly as good as offline. And it greatly reduces sodium levels when you're able to communicate with the person on the other side.

 

[OnyanRings]

I think arenas are fine for 1v1's but they're the big succ when it comes to smash battles, i swear i've never been able to play a lagless match with more than two players.

 

[FartyParty]

How can you be so certain that your opponents selected "Random" as their stage choice?

One thing I've learned about stage choice in 1v1 arenas is that if one players selects "Random" and the other player selects a specific stage, you will always play on the specifically selected stage. It will never go random if one of the combatants picks a level.

If you truly want to play random legal stages in your arenas, then you should actually set the level selection option to "Random" instead of leaving it on "Choice". This is what I do in my public arenas, and I have never noticed the problem you describe.

 

[FartyParty]

This is a topic I don't hear anyone talk about, not even top players, but these are some super glaring issues with Arenas that I think need to be addressed badly, cause it's becoming a genuine issue now, and patches don't really seem to be doing a single thing about them, probably due to how few people are talking about them.

1. The Arena Rotation System is too all-or-nothing. The issue with this isn't noticeable when there's only 2 or 3 players in the arena, but 4 or more you're likely to encounter this. Currently, there are only 2 rotation modes you can pick: Bottom One Leaves and Top One Leaves, but unfortunately, it leads to one of two situations depending on which you set it to. Bottom One Leaves, which is far more common in arenas, very often leads to one single person completely dominating the others in the arena, which basically means it's not only the same opponent every time, but one person gets to play far more. On the other hand, Top One Leaves leads to a similar scenario, albeit less likely, that someone will get absolutely destroyed and really just end up the arena's punching bag. Both of these scenarios have the same core problems: One person gets the most playtime, while the others are just forced to watch for 10+minutes usually, which is quite unfair. The fact that it's only one or the other makes it feel really hostile to uneven playing fields, and in some cases, even discouraging Arenas as genuine practice cause you don't want to deal with the broken ranking system.

2. The Ques are too Stingy. This also is a bit harder to notice when you have only 2 or 3 people, but it can become VERY apparent when the arenas have 4 or more players in the arena. When in the que, if you decide to change characters, stages, or music, or just so happen to try and check the rules, you'll be immediately kicked out of the que and sent to the back, giving the person behind you your spot. I could sorta get why this is in place, it just so happens to be poorly thought out from a developer point-of-view. Why can't it be that when your turn comes up that that's when you pick the character and stage (With a time limit of course to deter AFK/stalling), or why do you have to be punished for simply wanting to change to an alt? All of it ultimately makes us ask one question: Why make large arenas for friend gatherings online far less appealing?

3. Speaking of Rules... This one ties into the previous one, but why is it that you can't check for items BEFORE you enter the arena? Some people use Arenas for competitive practice, so why isn't there an option before entering the arena to see if options are turned on? You have to already be in there to be able to check them, and it can also lead to artificially clogging arenas since some will opt out the moment they see items on, but it won't show up like that to other players.

There's also an issue when it comes to bugs in the arena, but I have yet to personally encounter them so I can't verify those. Regardless, please Nintendo, fix this crap, Online is already really bad as is, and if the devs really care about the casual crowd as much as they say they do, they'll stop ignoring these issues already.

Complete agreement on 2 and 3. For number 1, I have no problem with all-or-nothing options but I would like an additional option to set a limit on consecutive matches. Like 3 or 5 match limit would be really nice.

But the absolute #1 change I want for arenas??? SQUAD STRIKE!!!!

 

[Sean²]

Squad Strike would be cool, so would simply being able to play 2v2 arenas with a 2nd local player rather than rely on playing with someone over the internet.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Dude there's millions of players vs what 10 posters lol Smashboards is a great place for discussion but it's still an outlier compared to Nintendo's intended core audience.

(don't be a try hard (am totally a try hard))

and how many users are unhappy with Nintendo's online?

I see lots of reddit and gamefaqs users complaining

 

[Deleted member]

and how many users are unhappy with Nintendo's online?

I see lots of reddit and gamefaqs users complaining

GameFaqs complains about everything though.

 

[Shinuto]

Okay so apparently Apple kinda forced WF's hand into revealing Shantae 5 early. I need to look up more on this.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

GameFaqs complains about everything though.

They do complain about minor and nitpicky things but other complaints are valid ones including terrible online.

 

[Naov]

I also think that the randomizer is very weird. Even on quickplay, I get the omega/battlefield of fountain of dreams, fzero, and the one of bayoneta, mostly every time I play some rounds. And there are some other levels that almost never appear.

 

[Sean²]

The game's matchmaking hates you and is preferring other players' rules over yours. It happens sometimes.

 

[HeavyMaster]

Hi all.


I've been having a problem with online. I cannot accept losing. I just shut down the game before my opponent has the chance to win. For example if i'm at my last stock and they still have 3, i just shut down the game. I do this mostly in arena.


By the way, it's not that i send my controller flying across the room, i'm not at that level of anger, but i still feel humiliated for losing.


And i don't do that with my close friends (either online or when we're in the same room)


I know it's a garbage attitude and I want to change that, because i never did this and I started doing this around 2 weeks ago. Do you guys have any tips on how to accept an online loss?


P.S. I DO have a life outside the game, i play music with friends and we're having a lot of fun.

 

[J.I.L]

Hi all.


I've been having a problem with online. I cannot accept losing. I just shut down the game before my opponent has the chance to win. For example if i'm at my last stock and they still have 3, i just shut down the game. I do this mostly in arena.


By the way, it's not that i send my controller flying across the room, i'm not at that level of anger, but i still feel humiliated for losing.


And i don't do that with my close friends (either online or when we're in the same room)


I know it's a garbage attitude and I want to change that, because i never did this and I started doing this around 2 weeks ago. Do you guys have any tips on how to accept an online loss?


P.S. I DO have a life outside the game, i play music with friends and we're having a lot of fun.

Cmon man, don't be a rage quitter. Though it's BA so it's not that big of a deal, but don't make a habbit of rage quitter. Espcially on quickplay.

Humilated? why? you are alone, no need to feel embarassed. Find stress releviers when you lose. Going outside, taking a break, focusing on something when you're not right (or be like me and throw something at full force at a cushon, yell in my pellow then tell myself some of the people who beat me were complete garbage cans of players (the people online) who I shouldn't have loss too then leave the room and vow not to lose to such people again.....okay don't do that last part.....loool)

On a serious note, you need to be honest with yourself. You need to know what you're skill level is, so you can set reasonable expecations for yourselfs. Sometimes if you think you are better then you are, you bring upon yourself stress that shouldn't be. It's best to be humble as possible, if you are a good player, call yourself average. If you are an average player, be happy to just beat medicore players. One thing i've learned is that if you cherish any win you can get, you avoid more losses and you are better able to take losses.

Set goals playing online, play with purpose. Idle play makes me play worse. So if you say hey (in this 5 games, I want to have a better then 50% win rate...or I want to get to this gsp number)....if you set small goals while playing, it helps you play better.

Handle your emotions.... with the understadning that if you get too emotional, you'll play worse and cause even more losses (do that early on, if you get on a losing streak and are trying to "handle" your emotions..you'll just kill yourself. At that point you need to either stop playing or relase that anger)
Now to answer your question, point is... if you find ways to win and build confidence in yourself...you won't lose as much and when you do lose you'll natrually and insticntivly be able to handle it better.

Hopefully my un-cordinated and whacky advice helped. lol.

 

[HeavyMaster]

Thank you very much for your advice J.I.L.

I feel like the hardest part for me is the embarassment part. I know i'm not the best player out there, but I still want to improve and be the best I can, but I'm always scared that if I lose, my opponent will be straight up laughing at me and saying stuff like "Look at this guy, he's the worst player i've ever met" (I can't see them, so I never know). I know very dang well that's it's ridiculous, so I'll try my best to just stop thinking about this and go back to being able to let go of this when I lose.

Thank you again for the advice