Q&A Quickplay and Battle Arena

Slime Master

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 16, 2019
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Boingburg, SL
GSP is based on how many people you're "better" than, which means if you're on the high end of the bell curve, which you are if you're close to or in elite smash, an increase in skill is going to put you past much fewer people than an equivalent decrease in skill would put people ahead of you. So the drop in skill that's tracked is the same, but since there's more people in the skill bracket below you than there are in the bracket above you the numbers are a little skewed. I admit that GSP is a terrible way to represent skill for that reason, but that's technically how it's supposed to work.
 
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mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
36
well it obviously doesnt, since the only times i lose are to either genuinly good players, or fluke projectile spammers/camper matches. very rarely are there any actual players this high up, just bots. and i have two characters the same gsp.
 

Jz0089

Smash Rookie
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Oct 10, 2014
Messages
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Hi all

i´m getting the feeling in the last two months that almost everyone in the online matches have the trend of running away. Most of the fight is this incredible boring game of the cat and the mouse, is this like the trend or it is just something that people is doing because they are really afraid to lose.

for example just played with a cloud that the only thing that does is charging or one donkey kong who is literally just waiting to grab or doi the side b, but never going after you just waiting for you to attack the whole game.

I've been thinking that maybe online is not fun anymore because with all the connection issues and lagginess, trying to chase someone the whole fight is not worth the time.

Best regards,
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
92
In 1vs1, online lag is always in favor of one player, giving a huge advantage to that player. Sometimes giving them a full second ahead of the other player. So basically, what the two players see is out of sync. Making it a very unfair match for someone.
 

DeDeDIke

Smash Apprentice
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Jul 4, 2019
Messages
90
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Vancouver
I already feel comfortable maining :ultkirby:, but I have several secondaries like :ultlucina:, :ultpalutena:, :ultpichu:, :ultwolf: and :ultyoshi:. I've considered :ultjoker: and :ultsnake: as well.

If you feel the most comfortable with Kirby, then spend the most amount of time working on him. You have to learn how your character works, how they can edgeguard, what moves to use in certain situations, etc. You might have a bit of a hard time with Kirby, since he does have a lot of bad matchups. Watch out for those FE swordies in particular; if the person behind them is very skilled and spaces very well, you might (or might not) be 3-stocked, depending on how well you do. Work on your consistency, and as you start to become more consistent with Kirby overtime, your GSP will start to rise slowly.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
92
Also, in matches that are amazing! Like, wow, perfect, lag free. (rare but possible!) I find that I lose my double jump a lot during the match. I even check the replays just in case, but i can't identify where the second jump is lost or activated.

This mostly happens when I get combo'ed by a good player. About three hits in, and no jumps used, I'll try to double jump and sometimes it just doesn't activate.

Since the game is so smooth in these situations, I just can't tell exactly what the cause is. Maybe an online buffer issue. Or maybe the jump was buffered, but overwritten somehow.. Not sure.
 
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Wykyd

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 31, 2019
Messages
2
Switch FC
SW-3724-2241-9232
So I'm in an ffa, getting ganked by 2 of the 3 others, and lose. The other guy leaves and it's me and the 2 ganging players, I go ganon, figured I could at least destroy one of these gankers, and they ditto jigglypuff and INSTANTLY start trying to sleep rest spam me and t bagging. Don't get me wrong, I'm still winning, like , I'm bodying these two. and they finally get 1 stock after I take 1 of the first dude and 2 off the other. AND THEY T BAG LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW. So I clean them up, quick win and all and t bag back at them for being jerks. Next thing I know, I'm banned for 2 hours. GG. Hope you like my story.
 

Wykyd

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I was literally in last place with 1 stock and got targetted by 2 dudes with 2 stocks a piece? The hell is the deal?
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
255
My character is more”fair” than the majority of the cast already, but suffers in lag. When playing S**** (because there is no MASHing, it doesn’t work) Ultimate, you always want a character with slow strong moves, a hard hitter, a character who can take advantage of lag, because it’s so common. Suddenly K. Rool jumps to top tier when enough lag enters the mix. Also projectiles become much worse. Please fix the online, and buff lower and mid tiers.
 

Steelmullet

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
92
Also don't forget this fun thing...

Inputs sometimes are plain out ignored in 70% of my matches...

And the lag..... I'm so behind with some kind of magic lag sometimes that I see players charging in for an attack before the "GO" appears on my screen and I still can't move.

Talk about fun.

I'm seriously wondering if my switch is busted....Anyone else see players move before you can move during an online match? Can the game actually get that out of sync?

So yeah...taking a break from smash for awhile.
 
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Baddest bih

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
43
I tried joining an arena for some ffa fun but the entire group just gangs up on me and only focus me. Is there a report option or something?
 

PURGE THEM LIKE THE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
92
I use a usb-ethernet cable. In elite smash just about every player I fight is laggy. In my last session I did not find a single person that yielded even a semi-lagless match. I know most people use wifi and that wifi is generally the culprit behind lag, but I find it very difficult to believe that so incredibly few people use an ethernet cable. According to my switch my download speed is about 26 Mbps, and my upload speed is about 7 Mbps. My NAT type is A. Are these numbers really that bad for online play? I genuinely have no idea of what else I could do.
 

Wigglerman

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 6, 2019
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Maine
I, full stop, have ignored 'quick matches' and 'elite smash'. They suck. Players on it, suck. All about them points and not about playing a fun, interesting match and will bail before giving you a run back. (In an arena it's inevitable to get a run back unless they up and out leave the arena)

Plus connections tend to be far, FAR worse on quick play due to the randos.

I use arenas. I also use a $10 lan adapter and hardwire up. It's WAY less frequent to get overly laggy matches in arenas and people in arenas don't have arbitrary points to lose if they don't win so matches are more what you'd expect and want. It's far better in regards to training. If you want better matches still, any arena that's a streamer tend to be better also. Tend to have better player pools, less likelihood of being kicked or otherwise having bad sportsmanship, and so on.

I didn't even like For Glory in Smash 4 because even when there wasn't points on the line, Quick Play matches like that either flood with try hards, bad sports/rude folk, 'campy scrubs' and so on.
 
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Reila

the true enemy of humanity is anime
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Coffee Prince Town
Quickplay died for me. No matter what day or time of the day I try to find matches, I just can't find them. Perhaps I am setting rules that aren't popular. I am not playing right now but I am pretty sure I have rules set to battlefield, no items, stocks, 1 on 1, 2 stocks, 5 minutes, FS off. I have tried some variations but no luck. Very unfortunate.

Granted, I vastly prefer arenas but I have my reasons for wanting to play on quickplay at times.
 

Idon

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Quickplay died for me. No matter what day or time of the day I try to find matches, I just can't find them. Perhaps I am setting rules that aren't popular. I am not playing right now but I am pretty sure I have rules set to battlefield, no items, stocks, 1 on 1, 2 stocks, 5 minutes, FS off. I have tried some variations but no luck. Very unfortunate.

Granted, I vastly prefer arenas but I have my reasons for wanting to play on quickplay at times.
Most people tend to prefer 3 stocks, 7 minutes, so perhaps try that and see where it gets you, if anywhere.
 

NewZen

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The biggest issue I tend to have with Smash's online Arenas is that people are easy to kick you out of the room after one match and only one match. No issues with the connection, no reason to hate soemone's playstyle, just that after you beat them one time or you come close to beating them, they Kick you.

The reason why I find this to be an issue with this game specifically is because of the frequency of which it occurs. Too many people do it and it's annoying when you can't find matches without having to rely on the awful Quickplay mode just to play with remotely decent rules.
 

J.I.L

Banned via Administration
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
327
The biggest issue I tend to have with Smash's online Arenas is that people are easy to kick you out of the room after one match and only one match. No issues with the connection, no reason to hate soemone's playstyle, just that after you beat them one time or you come close to beating them, they Kick you.

The reason why I find this to be an issue with this game specifically is because of the frequency of which it occurs. Too many people do it and it's annoying when you can't find matches without having to rely on the awful Quickplay mode just to play with remotely decent rules.
That’s 100% facts only. I’m trying to tell people that the owners on BA aren’t altruistic people and kick you because of salt. But people will just blame you instead of questioning BA owners and the BA system itself.

I played this donkey Kong (the owner) against my ness. He got WRECKED. It was a almost full room so I had to wait awhile to get my turn. After he got his butt handed to him. I immediately wanted to start next game knowing that the owner was going to salt kick me out of the room. But the normies simply wait there hoping the owner kicks. It’s literally in the culture of the smash BA community at this point. How you solve the problem is just make public BA rooms with standard rulesets. Then people can play without worry of getting kicked.
 
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Crazy Hand 2001

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They just put their token outside the waiting area and don't spectate any battles or fight in any.

It's like they are in the arenas just to take up spots that could be given to other people. Should the game kick them off the arena after a few rounds without participating?
 

Sucumbio

Smash Powerslave
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Absolutely. Or the arena owner should. I can't see why anyone would join an arena just to not fight or observe seems pointless.
 

J.I.L

Banned via Administration
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Apr 30, 2019
Messages
327
Absolutely. Or the arena owner should. I can't see why anyone would join an arena just to not fight or observe seems pointless.
They may be doing something or charging a controller or something like that and just didn’t bother to put tab on spectate since they aren’t doing that.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Powerslave
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I believe it was a choice made in favor of preventing teammates from turning on their partner but I could be wrong but I agree it'd be a good toggle at least in BA if not all modes. I learned tb with team attack off tho so I am not used to being able to get hit by a team member or that I could damage them. Snake is always a good laugh cause even if it's set to off his nades etc still hurt lol
 

Strong Badam

Journey
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It's likely off because weak players tend to accidentally hit their teammates often (causing frustration), and that team attack on allows too much opportunity for griefing (intentionally hitting your partner to upset them). Particularly since there's no easily accessible means of communicating with a randomly assigned teammate to coordinate positioning, it presents a big problem for moderation that's not easy to solve at all. It is much easier to determine that a player is SDing on purpose to grief than if they are intentionally hitting their teammate when accidental hits are also occurring.
 

TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
394
On quickplay it'd just be to confusing or toxic. You can kind of control who comes in on a battle arena, not so much quickplay. Like Strong said, newbies and just bad players would accidentally frag their partner. And since qp doesn't always give someone what they want I could see them being clueless that they're killing their partner and just assuming it's free for all.

I had a match where it was team at first and then later it switched to free for all. I think I was the only one to realize that because my previous teammate was flipping out whenever I attacked them (lol) and the other two only targeted me and them. It did not make for a fun game. I lost my last life and they just stopped playing (assuming the credits would roll, but got the picture a few seconds later)

I could very well see the reverse playing out, especially if team attack was added to the list. Or it'd be a great way to trolls and 'taunt parties' to further screw with people. I wouldn't be opposed to it being in the rule settings, but I can see it being exploited more than used the correct way.
 

Sonnerr

Smash Rookie
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Jan 12, 2019
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So I was online today, and I was wondering what the exact ruleset is for online. I mean, what I really want to know is if stale moves are on. I imagine that they are, but I just want to know for sure. And beside the preference, what other rules are there? Thanks for any help!
 

SquibboSmash

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
2
So, I have been playing Inkling for a while. I am pretty strong, I win tournaments an stuff. But I just can't seem to get to elite smash. I have the skills, I just get bad match ups, or lag, or I just don't play well that day. i get close, but fail all the time. Do you have any tips? i would appreciate the help!

~Squibbo~
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
275
No johns.
I have the skills,
Or so you claim.
I just get bad match ups
Yeah, that's going to happen.
Block and report the assholes that have really bad lag.
or I just don't play well that day.
Directly contradicts your "I have the skills" statement earlier. Maybe that's closer to your average level. "Regression to the mean" as it's called.

I'm not saying these things to be mean, I'm saying them with tough love. 2 of your 3 excuses are johns, and the only way to get over them is to, as they say, "git gud". Trust me, I'm in your spot too. I've been bouncing up and down around 5 mill for a bit myself. Highest I've gotten is around 5.2 mill. I'm not talking down to you, but speaking as a peer in a similar situation.
 

Mental Surge

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The only person that suffers from leaving a 1v1 is you. So why the hell do you get punished for it? This isn't street fighter where you screw your opponent out of points.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Powerslave
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Messages
5,351
The only person that suffers from leaving a 1v1 is you. So why the hell do you get punished for it? This isn't street fighter where you screw your opponent out of points.
Well technically everyone gets "screwed" because they don't get the GSP boost if you leave. True they don't lose points like the person who dropped but it's still sucks. Plus it discourages people from purposefully dropping out to rob other players of potential gsp for being salty and dropping. Hence the ban for too many drops. It also is meant to encourage you to go to your parents and beg them to pay for better internet in case the reason you drop is due to trash internet.
 

TrusF7

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
2
I have just started playing smash Ultimate, and don’t understand why my roster GSP increases with every lose I take. It is much higher than my highest GSP character (Luigi 3.8 mil) and my roster gsp is (5.7 mil). Was just wondering if anyone knew how or why I am facing better people with every loss I’d love to be informed. It just gets annoying when I’m learning how to play this game and I only know how to play Luigi so when I go and play all the other characters (anywhere from 150-900k GSP) I’m facing people that know their 0 to death combos while I’m first learning the character that I am playing. Maybe I’m just terrible with everyone but luigi but figured I would reach out and see if anyone had any advice.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Powerslave
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I have just started playing smash Ultimate, and don’t understand why my roster GSP increases with every lose I take. It is much higher than my highest GSP character (Luigi 3.8 mil) and my roster gsp is (5.7 mil). Was just wondering if anyone knew how or why I am facing better people with every loss I’d love to be informed. It just gets annoying when I’m learning how to play this game and I only know how to play Luigi so when I go and play all the other characters (anywhere from 150-900k GSP) I’m facing people that know their 0 to death combos while I’m first learning the character that I am playing. Maybe I’m just terrible with everyone but luigi but figured I would reach out and see if anyone had any advice.
It's funny but the game is out now for over a year and no one REALLY knows what roster GSP means.

My take is that it's an average of the characters in your game that have been used online. Since you've used luigi the most, it's comparing all Luigi players and their average score meaning that luigi players as a whole in ranked matches are averaging 5 mil gsp.

Confusing this number more, everyone that's played luigi online and played another character online gets factored in.

So in super simple terms... Or as an example...

1 player uses only luigi and wins always giving them gsp 10

1 player uses only luigi and never wins giving them gsp 1.

Together they'll both see roster GSP of 5.

Add a third player who wins half the time with luigi and always with samus.

That's {(10+1+5)/3} + {(0+0+10)/3} = 15.34

So now everyone's gsp roster is higher than any individual gsp and the poor schlep who never wins still shows way higher than expected.

Take this to include the millions of players and their basically infinite number of combinations of who's played who and who's won / lost with who however many times and...


Yah.

My advice is to ignore gsp altogether. At this stage in the game the learning curve is going to be really against any newcomers because you'll be playing against almost all seasoned players. Try to pick up what you can, watch some videos here on the boards, check out the character specific discussions, etc. Good luck!
 

TrusF7

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
2
It's funny but the game is out now for over a year and no one REALLY knows what roster GSP means.

My take is that it's an average of the characters in your game that have been used online. Since you've used luigi the most, it's comparing all Luigi players and their average score meaning that luigi players as a whole in ranked matches are averaging 5 mil gsp.

Confusing this number more, everyone that's played luigi online and played another character online gets factored in.

So in super simple terms... Or as an example...

1 player uses only luigi and wins always giving them gsp 10

1 player uses only luigi and never wins giving them gsp 1.

Together they'll both see roster GSP of 5.

Add a third player who wins half the time with luigi and always with samus.

That's {(10+1+5)/3} + {(0+0+10)/3} = 15.34

So now everyone's gsp roster is higher than any individual gsp and the poor schlep who never wins still shows way higher than expected.

Take this to include the millions of players and their basically infinite number of combinations of who's played who and who's won / lost with who however many times and...


Yah.

My advice is to ignore gsp altogether. At this stage in the game the learning curve is going to be really against any newcomers because you'll be playing against almost all seasoned players. Try to pick up what you can, watch some videos here on the boards, check out the character specific discussions, etc. Good luck!

Thank you so much for explaining the algorithm and kind of how people are matched up, that definitely makes more sense and I appreciate the explanation! I’m going to start diving into the character discussions now, and hopefully learn more about recovery and “teching” and all of the other advanced movements. Thanks again for the help!
 

Artmastercorey

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
399
Is there anyway to turn hazards off for normal stages in Arena?

Also what determines who can choose the next stage, sometimes when I play friends it plays their choice twice in a row.
 

Grimel

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
31
Battle Arena starts to feel more and more like Quickplay honestly. Seems like 90% of the time people leave if they win the first game. The same person wants to rematch if they come into my arena a couple of days later and lose the first match. Of course, I kick them after the first game. Rage Quitting also seems to become the norm now. Many opponents just close the game causing a disconnect even if they are just one stock down.
 
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Firox

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
2,543
Battle Arena starts to feel more and more like Quickplay honestly. Seems like 90% of the time people leave if they win the first game. The same person wants to rematch if they come into my arena a couple of days later and lose the first match. Of course, I kick them after the first game. Rage Quitting also seems to become the norm now. Many opponents just close the game causing a disconnect even if they are just one stock down.
I swear, Rage Quitting and refusing to rematch are why those losers will only continue to get owned. If people really want to improve at the game, they need to start playing to improve instead of only playing to win. If you only play people you can consistently beat, then you'll never learn how to cover your weaknesses and delete bad habits. It's too bad that the majority of Smash players don't understand this.
 

Earthboundfan1

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 4, 2020
Messages
4
I am having a hard time with beating people online. I dont know why i keep losing but i am. I main ness. My gsp is low and i am embarrassed. I really want to play better so i can play elite smash and get into competitive. Can someone please help me become a better player? ive even watched youtube videos on how to play better but i need help still...
 

1FC0

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
1,710
I am having a hard time with beating people online. I dont know why i keep losing but i am. I main ness. My gsp is low and i am embarrassed. I really want to play better so i can play elite smash and get into competitive. Can someone please help me become a better player? ive even watched youtube videos on how to play better but i need help still...
Try changing your name to R.O.B.fan and pick R.O.B.. One game I was playing against a Ness and when he was in KO range of Uair and on his last stock so I jumped offstage on purpose just to to bait the yo-yo and when he did use the jo-jo I poked through it using Uair and that killed him. It was hilarious. When I seemingly randomly ran off the stage during neutral he must have though that I was crazy but then he got hit by Uair and who was the crazy one then?
 
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