Question: Does anyone actually prefer Smash 4 over Ultimate?

Sean²

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#1
Question that has had me curious since release. Bayonetta mains aside - is there anyone that actually prefers Smash 4? If so, what exactly do you prefer more about it? I remember there was a small to medium-ish group that still preferred Brawl after Smash 4 was released. We all know the story of Melee and Brawl. And of course, lots of people still greatly prefer 64.

However, I haven't seen a mass exodus to a new game quite like this before - Smash 4 is dead. Dead on arrival, with the do not resuscitate form still in hand. Ultimate upgraded a lot of things, making me continually speculate that Smash 4 was just a filler episode to pad sales on a failed console while the plans for Ultimate were still taking baby steps.

So what do you think? Anything you miss? Anyone out there at all just hate Ultimate and want to go back already?
 

Nagol

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#2
I don't prefer it but things that I miss are:
perfect pivots - because they were flashy and fun to do after a K.O.
Backwards aerial rushes - much easier to do in 4 then in Ultimate.
separate game modes - for glory, Doubles
Dashing through your opponent - pivot grabs, pivot tilts
peaches F - throw
Most of peaches animations
The less or none shaking of the screen. Seriously it get's annoying in ultimate doubles with how much shaking happens
The name tags or the color outlines were easier to tell apart(i'm really unsure why, but I lose track of myself way more in this game).
white yoshi
Taunting in online
a bunch of other lesser things that if they returned I would be happy about but aren't worth listing
 

osby

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#3
If anyone likes to play the game modes like Smash Run occasionally, probably yes. I don't think they are significantly less in number than people who still play 64 or Brawl.

Ultimate upgraded a lot of stuff, but not without omitting a lot of things Smash For had. Plus, online.
 
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Arcadenik

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#4
Well, I love the roster in Ultimate more than all other Smash games (obviously) but...

I miss Smash Run, Target Smash (aka Break the Targets), Target Blast, Board the Platforms, Home Run Contest, and All-Star Mode.

I kinda wish they introduced a new stadium mini-game similar to Race to the Finish (or Ultimate’s Bonus Game in Classic Mode) where two players can race to the finish and avoid obstacles and enemies along the way.
 

Zuby

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#8
On the whole no, but there are a few (mostly small) things that I preferred in 4
-Smash Run
-Target Blast
-Home Run Contest
-Being able to quickly adjust rules on the fly instead of having to save entire rulesets through a mildly laborious process every time
-Trophies
-Having my last character selection remembered between matches so I don't have to choose them every time
-Not having to ever hear 'Lifelight'
 

Zuby

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#10
Come on now, the instrumental version is a lot more bearable.
It still annoys me for some reason. I wasn't too thrilled with Brawl's main theme either for the same reason (ludicrously melodramatic and over the top). I liked the menu themes for 4 and Melee much more.
 

Sean²

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#11
It still annoys me for some reason. I wasn't too thrilled with Brawl's main theme either for the same reason (ludicrously melodramatic and over the top). I liked the menu themes for 4 and Melee much more.
I don't have it unlocked yet, but if I did, this would be my only menu theme.
 

staindgrey

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#12
Ultimate upgraded a lot of things, making me continually speculate that Smash 4 was just a filler episode to pad sales on a failed console while the plans for Ultimate were still taking baby steps.
It is, but not in that order.

Smash 4 started development when Nintendo was still hopeful for the Wii U having a turnaround, a la the 3DS. It didn't, and Nintendo didn't want to waste the resources. So their DLC plan likely involved direct planning for Ultimate, which is likely how they managed the "everyone is here" thing. It's much easier to convince Square Enix to let you use Cloud, for instance, if you offer them the double-dipping money of Smash 4 DLC and Ultimate proper.

I think Ultimate being so much better than its predecessor in nearly every facet is the fact that this is the first ever Smash Bros. to keep its exact development team from game to sequel, meaning they didn't have to relearn or reteach anything. They just picked up where they left off and had more freedom to try new ideas and better balance the game they already made before.
 
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#13
Smash 4 started development when Nintendo was still hopeful for the Wii U having a turnaround, a la the 3DS. It didn't, and Nintendo didn't want to waste the resources. So their DLC plan likely involved direct planning for Ultimate, which is likely how they managed the "everyone is here" thing. It's much easier to convince Square Enix to let you use Cloud, for instance, if you offer them the double-dipping money of Smash 4 DLC and Ultimate proper.
That's 100% true. Sakurai said that Smash 4 DLC was decided right around the same time that the project plan and roster for Ultimate were being worked on.
 
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#14
Orbital Gate Assault.
I WANT IT BACK!

More seriously (though it's not entirely false, I want that stage back), the lack of "arcade quality" in the single player of Ultimate irks me.

Spirits gets exhausting after a while, and World of Light is very much a one-and-done thing. Contrarily to Brawl's SSE, it wore out its welcome pretty fast, to me SSE didn't feel nearly as bad until it pulled a Symphony of the Night with literally redoing the game all over again on one big map... but added to the early burn out, World of Light just doesn't want to freaking end. We praise the amount of content in that mode... however that's part of the issue; Smash Ultimate has way too much content in one place (Spirits), but it either is half baked or plain missing in other places.

Smash 4's single player content wasn't exactly super big, in fact I'd say it has the opposite problem; it's unfocused and gives you too much from the word go, but Crazy Orders, a regular All-Star Mode, and that original Break The Target minigame with the bomb (which I dunno the name in English) are all pretty fun modes I can regularly go back to on the Wii U, as I'm sure a lot of people are missing the Home-Run Contest or the more numerous Multiman-Melee options.

For what's there in the two games, the only thing that's superior in Smash Ultimate in terms of single player modes is the Classic Mode, everything else makes me just wanna play the Wii U version again for that arcade quality.
 
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#15
I kind of wish there was a way to implement all of the versions of Link/Zelda/D O R F that appeared over the Smash games. I had this idea in my very first thread ever but it wasn't too well received.

Mainly because I miss D O R F's silly old man feel and the disrespect involved with it, Link's gale boomerang memes and Zelda actually reflecting TP (her Smash 4 design was way better than Brawl's IMO).
 
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UserKev

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#16
Literally nope. Smash Ultimate has more fan favorites including previous DLC and more to come, revamped Classic Mode and all of my go to stages. Its the true sequel from Brawl.
 

Xelrog

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#17
I must be the only person who just had an unplayable slide show experience every time I attempted 4 online. Regardless of any systems or GSP or anything else, for me, Ult has been the very first Smash game to exist with online that can actually be played at all.
 

Arthur97

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#19
There are some good things. Better fighter and stage select orders (even if DLC was lazily cropped on), easier to change rules, All-Star, yes, I prefer old G&W, ZSS, and, I don't know, there does seem to be a feel about the game that Ultimate didn't capture. Oh, and For Glory, as bad as it was, I probably enjoyed more than quickplay.
 

link2702

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#20
I liked some things of 4 better, but overall i prefer ultimate.

I miss the tp version of link, i miss ganon’s old uair which was massively better in 4 with its late hitbox behind and below him. I also miss ganomcides being better, as they used to ensure opponents needed to be cautious near ganon at the ledge if they were even stocks. Now if they’re even or on last stock each, they don’t have as much to fear cuz he’ll lose first now. I also kinda miss his up smash due to its IASA frames.

Of course he is better in ultimate, but not by much, as the game has progressed and folks learned the matchup better, they realized he still suffers from the issues he always has, and a few new ones.

Also I miss smash run. That mode was actually fun, and it’s one of the few things that always drew me back to the 3ds version.
 

Predatoria

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#21
I liked some things of 4 better, but overall i prefer ultimate.

I miss the tp version of link, i miss ganon’s old uair which was massively better in 4 with its late hitbox behind and below him. I also miss ganomcides being better, as they used to ensure opponents needed to be cautious near ganon at the ledge if they were even stocks. Now if they’re even or on last stock each, they don’t have as much to fear cuz he’ll lose first now. I also kinda miss his up smash due to its IASA frames.

Of course he is better in ultimate, but not by much, as the game has progressed and folks learned the matchup better, they realized he still suffers from the issues he always has, and a few new ones.

Also I miss smash run. That mode was actually fun, and it’s one of the few things that always drew me back to the 3ds version.

I do think I overall like Ganon more in Ultimate as well, though I personally miss his old up smash. The really fast one where he kicked in the air. Even though the sword is more effective I just miss that one for some reason.

I do like Smash 4's Link a lot more than Ultimate's. I was having a conversation with a friend of mine about this, actually. It all came down to the change to his bomb. You can do so much with his bomb in Ultimate, but the problem I had for it was it kind of became his meta. I don't really like messing with mechanics like that or trying to optimize them, and prefer not needing to learn character-specific tech or skills to be competent with a character. I'd rather just toss and forget my bomb than bother trying to combo with it and stuff. It's one reason I never play Link any longer. I kind of feel the same way with Banjo. It seems a lot of his play involves that grenade, which I'd rather not bother with.



As for the OP, I vastly prefer Ultimate over Smash 4. I rarely played Smash 4, only really playing once every month or so when my relatives occasionally wanted to play. Now with Ultimate I actively seek out play sessions and actually care about learning more about the game and how to play it competently.
 
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Xelrog

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#22
I miss same-stock Ganoncide, too, but I get why they're discouraging it, I suppose. I'm firmly of the opinion that his old Fsmash has a place where his current Utilt is. **** Volcano Kick, we don't need it.

Also, is his downward-knocking up air hitbox gone? Now that you're mentioning it I can't recall hitting that way in Ult like I did in 4.
 

Predatoria

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#23
I miss same-stock Ganoncide, too, but I get why they're discouraging it, I suppose. I'm firmly of the opinion that his old Fsmash has a place where his current Utilt is. **** Volcano Kick, we don't need it.

Also, is his downward-knocking up air hitbox gone? Now that you're mentioning it I can't recall hitting that way in Ult like I did in 4.
I find Volcano Kick to be, almost, detrimental to my ganon play tbh. After playing other characters, I have a habit of just wanting to uptilt when the situation would normally call for it. Then I get trapped in volcano kick and it usually doesn't end well for me.

I believe Ganon's ganoncide is still non-survivable. At least, as Ridley, I can survive bowsercide by just recovering from the bottom blast zone. Ganon's, however, I never get the option to jump and just instadie. Not sure if it's something related to Ganon's hitbox or where he places you, but it does seem to definitively end stocks, so long as it isn't your last one.
 

Xelrog

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#24
I find Volcano Kick to be, almost, detrimental to my ganon play tbh. After playing other characters, I have a habit of just wanting to uptilt when the situation would normally call for it. Then I get trapped in volcano kick and it usually doesn't end well for me.

I believe Ganon's ganoncide is still non-survivable. At least, as Ridley, I can survive bowsercide by just recovering from the bottom blast zone. Ganon's, however, I never get the option to jump and just instadie. Not sure if it's something related to Ganon's hitbox or where he places you, but it does seem to definitively end stocks, so long as it isn't your last one.
Ganondorf's can be shaken out of, though. I don't know quite how demanding it is but computer players do it 100% of the time. Bowser's, by contrast, can't be mashed out of at all.
 

Zandro

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#25
I like smash 4 better than ultimate. Characters felt smoother, it felt more responsive to me overall and I actualy felt in control of my charachter (just play smash 4 little mac and then play ultimate little mac and ultimates feels like clunky garbage in comperision), I liked smash 4 air dodges better than ultimates, online was free, I liked how free and floaty characters like mewtwo felt and ultimate made everyone feel like heavy bricks, and last but not least I felt the game was hype.

I haven't been hyped at all for ultimate. The only reveal I felt anything towards was king k rool, and even that was an obvious choice. I don't like all these third party chars and feel that they are taking away from what the game originally was; a collection of nintendo all stars duking it out. Each time a character from another company is revealed I feel like another Nintendo character just got the boot.

Its a shame bayonetta and cloud had to exist in that game, because they utterly ruined singles and doubles respectively. Diddy could've used a hard nerf too and if that had happened it probably would go down as the most balanced smash game.

As for my time with ultimate, I've been to less than 10 tournaments. In smash4s lifetime I easily went to over 150+ tourneys sometimes even 3 per week.

I just haven't been enjoying this game. I bought the nintendo online just for ultimate, and I've recently decided I wont be renewing it this december. At this point, I'm just waiting for the next smash game........... nothing more to say. Cya.
 
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#26
I still play Smash Wii U more then Ultimate for its better gameplay mechanics for things like the game camera zooms in better, cut moves, custom moves, I can play custom stage in special mode and it zooms in a lot.
 

lucasla

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#27
I dont preffer Smash 4, but some things were better on that game, mainly:

1. The fact that it has For-Glory in online mode (this problem was minimized by the 1v1 tournament, but it is not better yet because it's not a fixed mode, it keeps changing even to "for fun" tournaments modes).

2. I think the characters are easier to follow with the eyes in Smash4 than in Ultimate. In Ultimate they are all more bright, less colorfull, and they keep glowing in white all the time, creating a lot of moments where in games with 4 or more characters, I lose the track of my character.

And.. I think that what I preffer in Smash 4 ends there.
 
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#28
I went back to play smash 4 around the time of this year's smash con. I heard some players on Twitter absolutely didn't like smash 4 now and how weird it plays compared to Ultimate. So I checked myself and oh my it doesn't feel bad, but it feels so different. Movement and certain attacks threw me off fairly well. A character like Pikachu feels so different to me now and my Ultimate playstyle has no match with Smash 4's Pikachu. Now I get it's been awhile so it makes sense that I wouldn't be completely comfortable with playing, but I never had this much of an issue whenever I played Brawl and 64. In fact I feel a lot better at 64 despite not playing it even longer than 4.

That all being said while smash 4 is a great game on its own right, Ultimate is still way better imo gameplay wise and content wise. That game will probably be collecting dust for another year while I'll be enjoying any other smash game.
 

Technourgos

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#29
  1. A lot of players, including myself, tend to do one-and-dones in Quickplay, mainly because of GSP. This was non-existent in SSB4, meaning that I actually stuck around. I suspect most would do the same if there wasn't anything to lose. Maybe if my fear was removed entirely, I would continue, due to lacking the fear of failure. I've encountered the same people in Quickplay and won still, but don't expect me to stick around after a single match.
  2. Because of GSP, playing in Quickplay feels more like a chore. In SSB4, I had fun playing in For Glory and was eager to jump in. It's not that way for me in SSBU. The only benefit of GSP is that I'm more likely to play against others who are around my level or better. It's usually the former, though.
  3. The buffering system is awful in SSBU. Apparently, air-dodging and then tapping left or right on the left analog while still holding down the air-dodge will cause you to roll in whatever direction you tapped. I thought this was removed, but it's still present. Worse, no adjustment has been made so that one doesn't accidentally air-dodge to his/her death.
  4. Characters seem to immediately shield upon landing. Shield should have been left alone because it's too good now since the patch.
  5. For character-specific complaints, I don't like how Samus' jab 1 still doesn't connect into jab 2. That the developers are aware of this and have failed to resolve it, while fixing other character issues only makes me think the developers don't care. I've noticed lately that jab 1 will miss at times, even when the animation shows that it connected.
  6. Samus' f-air can be the first aerial to come out and still be beaten by the opponent's aerial, even if such aerial isn't disjointed. I don't recall this problem in SSB4.
 
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Xelrog

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#30
A lot of players, including myself, tend to do one-and-dones in Quickplay, mainly because of GSP. This was non-existent in SSB4, meaning that I actually stuck around. I suspect most would do the same if there wasn't anything to lose. Maybe if my fear was removed entirely, I would continue, due to lacking the fear of failure. I've encountered the same people in Quickplay and won still, but don't expect me to stick around after a single match.
I don't think I'd play online at all without GSP, something to potentially gain.
 
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Sari

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#31
Online and the original All-star mode are the only things I miss from 4.
 

Technourgos

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#32
I don't think I'd play online at all without GSP, something to potentially gain.
It's tedious and the points you earn takes much longer to gain than it takes to lose. Worse is that you're actually put up against players who will be far lower than you. This is strange because there are players better than me, but I rarely ever face anyone with higher GSP.
 

KetchupKaffei

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#34
That game was really bad. By far the worst smash game competitive and causal wise.
I stopped playing the game afterwards when the last DLC came out. I started to play melee competitively for the first time, really glad about that.

But I seriously hate smash 4 with a burning passion as well as many MANY others.

I predicted the game would die the way it did as well, few could vouch for me.
 

Mogisthelioma

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#35
That game was really bad. By far the worst smash game competitive and causal wise.
Not to sound rude, but that's a pretty bold statement....considering Brawl existed.

Yes, the Smash 4 DLC shook up the meta, but at least every fighter was viable (depending on the matchup) and it had a playable online. It's predecessor on the other hand had a meta that revolved completely around MK and was chock full of broken and abusable crap like chain grabs, infinites, and DACUS.

....Not implying that Smash 4 was perfect in any way.
 

KetchupKaffei

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#36
Not to sound rude, but that's a pretty bold statement....considering Brawl existed.

Yes, the Smash 4 DLC shook up the meta, but at least every fighter was viable (depending on the matchup) and it had a playable online. It's predecessor on the other hand had a meta that revolved completely around MK and was chock full of broken and abusable crap like chain grabs, infinites, and DACUS.

....Not implying that Smash 4 was perfect in any way.
I give you that, with the balancing, it is debatable in my opinion however in other aspects, however causal and general standpoint wise the game has little to nothing to offer.

-There is no adventure mode at all, and it's replaced with Smash tour, a mode that is really awful and confusing. It doesn't hold up to anything really interesting at all.

-Target smash was ruined and turned into a crappy version of angry birds. It should at least be more of a side option to the main target smash.

-Classic mode is ruined with 8 players smash forced down your throat.

-Stage builder was a one step forward, but few steps back from brawl, no improvement or creativity at all. Brawl honestly had a way better one.

-Barely any new stages, majority of them are either really annoying or boring to play on.

-Menu is horribly designed, redundant options in certain areas.

-Online modes are a disappointment and also *Smash hell* one of the worst report/ban systems they ever made.

-Items are boring, either really bad or too stupidly easy to get kills and annoying

And much more.
 
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#37
Not to sound rude, but that's a pretty bold statement....considering Brawl existed.

Yes, the Smash 4 DLC shook up the meta, but at least every fighter was viable (depending on the matchup) and it had a playable online. It's predecessor on the other hand had a meta that revolved completely around MK and was chock full of broken and abusable crap like chain grabs, infinites, and DACUS.

....Not implying that Smash 4 was perfect in any way.
Eh, I see 4 being dragged down more than Brawl these days competitive wise. Or at least that was the case when scrolling through smash Twitter around smash con. I can't really say much about my competitive perspective but the content was definitely lacking in 4.

Imo 4 has the better gameplay, but I'm not really going to be back playing 4 or Brawl for gameplay since Melee and Ultimate are my main games that are absolutely fun to play matches all day. At least with Brawl it had subspace and boss battles as its exclusive modes. 4 lacked new modes that were good and absolutely made some existing modes worse like Classic and Targets.

I loved 4 and I'd argue it's structurally the better game, but man I can't help but feel the times I got bored because there isn't much to do especially now.
 

lucasla

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#38
Eh, I see 4 being dragged down more than Brawl these days competitive wise. Or at least that was the case when scrolling through smash Twitter around smash con. I can't really say much about my competitive perspective but the content was definitely lacking in 4.

Imo 4 has the better gameplay, but I'm not really going to be back playing 4 or Brawl for gameplay since Melee and Ultimate are my main games that are absolutely fun to play matches all day. At least with Brawl it had subspace and boss battles as its exclusive modes. 4 lacked new modes that were good and absolutely made some existing modes worse like Classic and Targets.

I loved 4 and I'd argue it's structurally the better game, but man I can't help but feel the times I got bored because there isn't much to do especially now.
Yeah, I preffer the gameplay of Smash 4 in comparison to Brawl, but Smash 4 is totally "empty" in content to me. It has the core game, but when you are alone and tired of play online and want something to do that is not fight with enemy AI, to explore, to waste your time, it has nothing really interesting to do that you cant have if you download a mobile game in your phone. In comparison, Brawl at least had Subspace, that is a mode that I still wait to see a sequel with more quality.

Thank god Smash Ultimate introduced something to do for singleplayer, that is far better than what we had in Smash 4. And.. I can only say that it is better than Brawl too because Brawl Subspace while interesting is not really polished or super fun, it was pretty poor, a good idea not very well implemented. But Smash Ultimate singleplayer modes are just Ok to me. They are not really impressive, cause they all feel the same and they are all very repetitive.

Spirits, Spirit Board and Classic mode are all the same thing with small tweaks to make them appear to be different modes, but they are very similar.

Spirits and Spirit Board are actually the same thing.. With the difference that in Spirits when you are not fighting you are walking through a map and in Spirit Board you just select a random match directly. But when you are really playing, fighting, you are basically doing the same thing, you have the same feeling in both modes.
The same thing happens to Classic mode. It doesnt have spirits, but every battle of Classic Mode can easily fit in a Spirit battle. It's just a new name for another mode of quick battles with random properties, in this case not with spirits, but the effect and the feeling is the same too...

The only difference between these modes are the interface between battles, in one is a map, in the other is a bunch of cards, and in the other the battles have a different distribution for each fighter...

At the end of the day, if you dont appreciate the quick battles with different properties they provide for single player, you will probably not like all the big 3 main singleplayer modes of Smash. And this is the problem with the single player of this game to me. It has 3 main big modes, pretty huge, but they are all the same, with different interfaces and small tweaks. If you want to play some good singleplayer level, and you are tired of quick battles, where do you go in the game? From Spirits to Spirit Board? To Classic? It's the same thing.. you will not even feel you changed the game mode. It is just small quick battles everywhere..

I like the Spirit/Classic mode battles, but I think it works better as an extra to a campaign mode that I expect to see in a future game.
 
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Ben Holt

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#39
I prefer the Smash game with the biggest and best roster.
That is my criteria.
Though competitively, I'd like to avoid both extremes of Melee and Brawl.
Melee was a glitchfest people exploited to make half the roster completely unviable and at very top level play, only around four characters are viable.
Inversely, Brawl had no combos, dumb tripping mechanics, and an even worse competitive viability problem than Melee.

Smash 4 was excellent until Bayonetta broke the metagame, but overall amazing.
Ultimate is the cream of the crop with a pretty balanced roster where even low tiers can have success and plays at a good speed without the unreasonably complicated glitch mastery of Melee or the super campiness of Brawl.
Both campy characters like Pac-Man and Snake and hyper offensive characters like Mario and Joker are extremely viable. No one strategy beats all the others.

Basically, Melee is basic understanding of advanced mechanics and Smash 4 and Ultimate are advanced understanding of basic mechanics.
Brawl is the odd one. I doubt Melee would be where it is today had Brawl's metagame not been completely garbage.

So yea, I like Smash 4, but it doesn't have the cult following Melee does, so it will always be seen as obsolete compared to Ultimate.
And Ultimate will be obsoleted by the next Smash Bros.
 
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#40
Ah, fast out of shield grab how I miss thee...

On a serious note, although I prefer ultimate overall, there are a few things I miss from smash 4 such as:

Orbital Gate Assault - I have very fond memories of Star Fox Assault, so it was sad not to see this stage return.

Bowser's pivot grab range and up throw up air combo - ok i completely understand why they chaged this ridiculous combo, but I'm not gonna lie, I occasionally hop on smash 4 to get some cheap kills, because I vastly prefer it over Bowser's new grab! XD

Smash run - One of my favourite side modes in the series! Although it had its flaws, I'd love to see it return in the future, preferably with the ability to interact with other players in the main open world area!

Although those were a few of the main features I preferred in smash 4, I think Ultimate introduced some much needed changes to the core mechanics, such as: rolling, spot dodge and air dodge nerfs, which were my main gripes with 4 and ultimately why I prefer the latter (pun most definitely intended!).
 
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