Question: Does anyone actually prefer Smash 4 over Ultimate?

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,428
Location
Ravnica
#41
I give you that, with the balancing, it is debatable in my opinion however in other aspects, however causal and general standpoint wise the game has little to nothing to offer.

-There is no adventure mode at all, and it's replaced with Smash tour, a mode that is really awful and confusing. It doesn't hold up to anything really interesting at all.

-Target smash was ruined and turned into a crappy version of angry birds. It should at least be more of a side option to the main target smash.

-Classic mode is ruined with 8 players smash forced down your throat.

-Stage builder was a one step forward, but few steps back from brawl, no improvement or creativity at all. Brawl honestly had a way better one.

-Barely any new stages, majority of them are either really annoying or boring to play on.

-Menu is horribly designed, redundant options in certain areas.

-Online modes are a disappointment and also *Smash hell* one of the worst report/ban systems they ever made.

-Items are boring, either really bad or too stupidly easy to get kills and annoying

And much more.
Fair enough. i agree with all these points.
Melee was a glitchfest people exploited to make half the roster completely unviable and at very top level play, only around four characters are viable.
And those four character are....?
I've seen way more than four characters in Melee tournaments. :falconmelee::falcomelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee::samusmelee::yoshimelee::luigimelee::foxmelee::icsmelee::jigglypuffmelee::peachmelee: probably appear the most. And again, Melee was certainly glitchy, but the most exploited mechanic was simply wavedashing, and that was more of an unintended feature than a glitch.
Brawl had no combos
Brawl had lots of infinites, and those are all combos. Also see Meta Knight.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
5,730
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
#42
I sure miss the air dodge and roll system in Sm4sh compared to Ultimate.

I also miss Yoshi's old Final Smash and overall he feels less natural for me to control than in Sm4sh and I find myself struggling to kill as much with him.

I actually dislike a lot of the Final Smash adjustments. Transformation Final Smashes were my favourite.

There's stuff I prefer in Ultimate: Pokémon Trainer being back since I enjoyed playing Squirtle and Ivysaur more than Charizard, Chrom making the cut...and...err.. I guess Toad's slightly expanded role in Peach's moveset is better on paper for me as a Toad fan...oh, and World of Light is better than Smash Tour(but not Smash Run) but that's about it actually.

Thus far newcomer wise I haven't had anything bar Chrom and maybe Isabelle who I've personally liked. Certainly nothing that made me as hyped as eight player Smash revealed with the Koopalings, third party picks as big or enticing as Pac-Man or Ryu and spirits honestly suck compared to trophies. I don't even care about the trophies themselves but no descriptions took away the one thing I loved aside single player wise.

Everyone is Here didn't excite me either. Here's a bunch of old characters you've played before is never going to compete with the excitement of brand new fighters.
I'd have happily taken a few more veteran cuts if we got a few more newcomer characters.
 

KatKit

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
1,085
#43
I don't prefer it over Ultimate, but I certainly miss custom moves, Smash Run, and Smash Tour.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
803
Location
Virginia
3DS FC
5198-2617-9626
#44
And those four character are....?
I've seen way more than four characters in Melee tournaments. :falconmelee::falcomelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee::samusmelee::yoshimelee::luigimelee::foxmelee::icsmelee::jigglypuffmelee::peachmelee: probably appear the most. And again, Melee was certainly glitchy, but the most exploited mechanic was simply wavedashing, and that was more of an unintended feature than a glitch.
I agree with the character statement. Recent major tournaments we've seen all of these characters with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 in top 16 and many in top 8. Even Axe's Pikachu made it to quite a few grand finals and even won Summit. Shoot, I believe a Dr. Mario made it to top 16 not too long ago too. And it's true about wavedashing, they knew about it but never thought it would be used like it is today.
 

Arthur97

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
2,057
#45
Wait, what is this talk about all Ultimate has to offer for single player? WoL was a slog which got fairly taxing after a while. Spirit Board is the same, but without a map or skill tree. It just seemed to fall short of actual event matches to me. Maybe because of how tedious they got. Either way, once you've beat them, you've beat them unless you make up some extra challenges for yourself. Classic mode was nice...the first time, but the new method comes at the cost of much replayability. There is no real All-Stars, no boss battles, no break the targets. Granted, 4 was bad at this too, and while Ultimate had some more, I wouldn't call it great. I mean, Ultimate even got rid of trophies.
 

Ben Holt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
921
Location
USA
3DS FC
5455-9637-6959
NNID
BenHolt
Switch FC
5283 2130 1160
#46
And those four character are....?
I've seen way more than four characters in Melee tournaments. :falconmelee::falcomelee::marthmelee::sheikmelee::samusmelee::yoshimelee::luigimelee::foxmelee::icsmelee::jigglypuffmelee::peachmelee: probably appear the most. And again, Melee was certainly glitchy, but the most exploited mechanic was simply wavedashing, and that was more of an unintended feature than a glitch.
In Top 8, you consistently only see Fox, Falco, Marth, and Jigglypuff.
Those other characters can make tournaments, but the winning characters are quite consistent, but even still half the roster is completely unviable in any competitive setting.
 

PsychoJosh

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,558
Location
Alberta
#47
I do kind of prefer Smash 4 in several ways. Online was less garbage and also it was free. Plus the input buffer didn't eat my attacks all the time and replace them with nothing or even the wrong attacks.

Smash Ultimate is so ****ing annoying to play.
 

TheDuke54

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
377
#48
Back when I first got Smash Ultimate in late December (Xmas gift) I actually tried online and it was so bad that after a few weeks I switched over to Smash4 online and had a better time. I haven't done that recently. But yeah biggest reason I switched over to the earlier version was because online was atrocious. Haven't played Smash in about a month been busy and the such, so I don't know how well online has handled within that month time-frame.

I also miss things they did in previous games. Like every other version had some kind of single-player stuff to keep you occupied. And since Ultimate did not have that it, it strictly focused on online and well...I switched over to Smash4 from time to time in the early stages. Now I just don't pick it up all that much unless my friends hit me up to play. And even that hasn't happened all that much. I ask them and they never seem interested.

I also miss that you can't add cpus for online friend battles and that 2 people in the same household can't play together online with friends.
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
7,462
#49
Wait, what is this talk about all Ultimate has to offer for single player? WoL was a slog which got fairly taxing after a while. Spirit Board is the same, but without a map or skill tree. It just seemed to fall short of actual event matches to me. Maybe because of how tedious they got. Either way, once you've beat them, you've beat them unless you make up some extra challenges for yourself. Classic mode was nice...the first time, but the new method comes at the cost of much replayability. There is no real All-Stars, no boss battles, no break the targets. Granted, 4 was bad at this too, and while Ultimate had some more, I wouldn't call it great. I mean, Ultimate even got rid of trophies.
Opinions and all that. WOL and Spirit Board gave me several dozen hours of entertainment which is great in my book. Nothing in the other Smash games comes close to that and the Event Matches after Melee were pretty mediocre anyway.

I don't have any reason to return to Smash 4. A few stages like Pac-Maze, Rainbow Road and Woolly World would be nice, and Smash Run was pretty great, but those aren't enough to go back to. Ultimate just has way more to do and will receive several years of DLC support. The online was better in Smash 4 but not by much imo, especially now that it's been improved quite a bit since launch. That's not getting into all the fantastic new characters and returning veterans that weren't in Smash 4.

On their own merits I consider Ultimate the best Smash game and my favorite game of all time and Smash 4 the worst, so I guess that gives you an idea. I put 200 hours into Smash 4 between the two versions but I'm approaching 300 with just Ultimate and it hasn't even been a year. That should paint a picture. I had fun with the game but I have no interest in returning to it and compared to the other Smash games there is little reason to do so.
 
Last edited:

Arthur97

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
2,057
#50
Opinions and all that. WOL and Spirit Board gave me several dozen hours of entertainment which is great in my book. Nothing in the other Smash games comes close to that and the Event Matches after Melee were pretty mediocre anyway.

I don't have any reason to return to Smash 4. A few stages like Pac-Maze, Rainbow Road and Woolly World would be nice, and Smash Run was pretty great, but those aren't enough to go back to. Ultimate just has way more to do and will receive several years of DLC support. The online was better in Smash 4 but not by much imo, especially now that it's been improved quite a bit since launch. That's not getting into all the fantastic new characters and returning veterans that weren't in Smash 4.

On their own merits I consider Ultimate the best Smash game and my favorite game of all time and Smash 4 the worst, so I guess that gives you an idea. I put 200 hours into Smash 4 between the two versions but I'm approaching 300 with just Ultimate and it hasn't even been a year. That should paint a picture. I had fun with the game but I have no interest in returning to it and compared to the other Smash games there is little reason to do so.
Then you have already painted your bias. As someone who played both games, I'd say they are both criminally lacking in single player. WoL provided hours of "entertainment," but it was really boring for an adventure mode.

Many of your points don't even seem to be about my main point of that post: The single player.

And as great as returning stages are, I do have a gripe with how few new stages there are (with most of those being third party DLC at that). Say what you will about potential fighters, but Nintendo still has plenty of stage potential. Now, this is just the continuation of 4's trend though.
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
7,462
#51
Then you have already painted your bias. As someone who played both games, I'd say they are both criminally lacking in single player. WoL provided hours of "entertainment," but it was really boring for an adventure mode.
No duh? Like I said, this is all about opinions and opinions are biased by nature. I enjoyed WOL and I'm not going to say otherwise. Do you want me to say it was boring so I agree with you or something?

Many of your points don't even seem to be about my main point of that post: The single player.
You're right, they weren't. My post after the initial lines were addressing the thread at large.
 

Ben Holt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
921
Location
USA
3DS FC
5455-9637-6959
NNID
BenHolt
Switch FC
5283 2130 1160
#53
I miss smash run and custom moves.
I wish custom moves would come back but actually be different.
My Make-a Mario Great Again! thread has a post where I suggest unique custom moves for Mario.
Granted, Mario has more to work with than most characters, but I think that every character should have unique custom moves like that.
 

New_Dumal

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
1,072
NNID
NewTouchdown
#54
I do really prefer Smash4 than Ultimate (in general).
Smash4 could be played agressive or defensive, Ultimate is all about attacking.
Don't get me wrong, it's good to have better movement options and I really like parrying, but shield something is lose advantage in this game and this is so stupid.
It's like the developers heard the general cry about defensive gameplay and said "Let's do what they want it, everything is safe now".
The game is popular and flashy, but IMO the least organic Smash ever.
Ultimate does not reward creativity at all, I can watch multiple sets without surprising me with nothing.
It seems that when you dare to challenge the punish tree flowchart it goes downhill and you're punished instead.
It's like Smash4 Diddy Kong, but with everyone else.
I can see the better balance, bigger cast, better stage selection... but I can't see the depth that was in Smash4.
It's a shame because there are a lot of improvements and I think is a less flawed game, but I still prefer the one that does not revolve around dash-back (since shield is trash you must force whiff punishes) and bnb combo game/confirms.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
2,290
Location
Niigata, Japan
3DS FC
3668-9945-1996
NNID
BahamurShin
#55
Then you have already painted your bias. As someone who played both games, I'd say they are both criminally lacking in single player. WoL provided hours of "entertainment," but it was really boring for an adventure mode.

Many of your points don't even seem to be about my main point of that post: The single player.

And as great as returning stages are, I do have a gripe with how few new stages there are (with most of those being third party DLC at that). Say what you will about potential fighters, but Nintendo still has plenty of stage potential. Now, this is just the continuation of 4's trend though.
Everyone is being biased here, your point?

To you, WoL may have been boring, but to people like me it was entertaining. I'm currently on my third play through on hard mode, and I encourage myself to try different spirit combos with different characters or to challenge myself with weaker spirits. The gaming references in those fights also put a smile on my face. I don't see how Spirit Battles are any different from Event Matches, people seem to make an arbitrary separation for reasons I never understood why.
 

LightKnight

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
123
#58
I only got to play with Smash 4 for about a year before getting Ultimate but I gotta say I miss almost nothing from Smash 4 other than maybe the custom moves.
The characters in Ultimate just feel so much more polished and usable and with all the characters from past games, plus more, it gives me little reason to play the previous game. There were many mechanics in 4 I was not a fan of and I like their approach much better in Ultimate. For example, only having 1 air dodge and having the option of a directional, but laggier, air dodge.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
3,428
Location
Ravnica
#59
I honestly miss the ability to fool around with amiibo custom moves. Now if I want to have fun with customization I have to go through the process of picking the right spirit and making sure the stats don't make them stupid powerful.

I just....don't like Spirits. I get the idea of representing as many figures as possible but I wish we could go back to the simpler days of trophies and custom moves. Spirit mode feels redundant and boring, and In my opinion World of Light just doesn't hold a candle to SSE. I'm nostalgia biased, sure, but playing Brawl as a kid and seeing all my favorite Nintendo characters team up against a group of bad guys was a blast, especially in the scene with the giant spaceship and the Halberd squaring off. It was epic. World of Light had almost no cutscenes and a story that was "Look, theres a bad guy! Kill it!" It lacked almost any interaction between the characters and was super tedious.

And what's worse is that they replaced some decently fun gamemodes with mediocre ones as compensation. All-star mode has been toned down. So what if there's a lot of fighters? Maybe they could have offered separate routes of fighters you can challenge, or just let the player actually test their skill and see if they can take down the whole roster. Master and Crazy orders are gone, and I liked those. They were fun to play when I felt like challenging myself. Target Smash is gone. Trophy rush is gone (effectively replaced with the Spirit Board).

I haven't played Smash 4 since Ultimate's release, but there re definitely many things I miss.
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
4,639
3DS FC
1951-0995-8868
NNID
AustarusIV
Switch FC
SW-2630-2447-9223
#60
I miss having Charizard as a solo character.

Other than that? Not much, though I would like to see Smash Run and Rainbow Road again. The 3DS version at least had some cool features that came with it, the Wii U version is just about outclassed by Ultimate in every conceivable way.
 

LightKnight

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
123
#61
I miss having Charizard as a solo character.

Other than that? Not much, though I would like to see Smash Run and Rainbow Road again. The 3DS version at least had some cool features that came with it, the Wii U version is just about outclassed by Ultimate in every conceivable way.
Those were some things I forgot to talk about. In fact, I'd love to play all the the pokmon solo from Pokemon Trainer, especially Squirtle. Perhaps we'll get 'echo' fighters versions of them in the future?
Though I never got to play that one cool mode in the 3DS version where you collected power ups from the different franchises enemies it looked like a really cool mode that could have been perfected in Ultimate.
 
Top