Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[DrSoussou]

To really master Lucario, I feel like one needs to be well-versed in B-reversal AT's, but other than that he is a pretty basic character who just happens to have Aura Bonus that makes him special.

Hardest to learn imo?
1. Climbers
2. Olimar
3. Snake

Easiest?
1. Mario
2. Kirby
3. Marth
(Lucario probably soon after)

 

[infiniteV115]

Marth is easy to pick up but he's not at all easy to master. If anything he's one of the hardest characters to master.

 

[BlueXenon]

Thankyou everyone. Maybe my problem is im using Lucario too much like he's metaknight.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Marth is easy to pick up but he's not at all easy to master. If anything he's one of the hardest characters to master.

To be fair, every character is pretty hard to master. That's why there's only a few top players of each character. This game, in general, is pretty tough to "master"

 

[Browny]

Marth is easy to pick up but he's not at all easy to master. If anything he's one of the hardest characters to master.

Before I go all-in here...

Let me ask you, how do you define 'master'? What criteria must one player meet to have 'mastered' said character, over another who is simply very good with them?

 

[DrSoussou]

I actively tried to think of an answer to this question for like an hour and I couldn't come up with anything concrete. However, I did realize a few things.

1. No character has been mastered by anyone.
2. Everyone is in the process of mastering their main, its just a matter of how close they are.
3. All of a character's AT's and tricks have to be consistently and flawlessly executed on command (and moreover, applied appropriately and reliably in combat) before that character can be "mastered".
4. A player may consider themselves to have mastered their character when they no longer lose a set against ANYONE while using that character (EVER), and they can win without having to resort to exploiting their opponents' character/personal weaknesses.
5. Anyone who could fit the above description has probably also become a master of Brawl itself.

 

[iRJi]

kk, can anyone explain how to do the double B reversal? (IE: The one where you jump forward, then bounce back while still facing in the same direction). If someone can explain it AND if possible try too upload a video with it (with the actual hand movements, not the bounce itself) it would be very very very helpful. I have been attempting to do it for a week, and I think I know the button inputs, but I am just doing the timing wrong or something.

/shrug

Also, if you can actually get a video, but need help uploading it, I can easily do that for anyone.

 

[DrSoussou]

I'm bad at videos but I can try to describe it. Basically you're going to start by moving forward in the air (holding forward). The inputs should then follow as such: tilt back on the control stick very slightly (basically go from holding forward to tilting the stick back into neutral position) and then very quickly perform a B-reverse forward. In other words, follow the tilt-to-neutral by pressing B while tilting it back to the full forward position.

Hold forward > tilt back to neutral > B > tilt back to full forward

The timing is very precise and the tilt sensitivity can also be very specific, but if you do it correctly you should wavebounce backwards while still facing forward. As with all wavebounce/b-reverse/turnaround-b tricks with Lucario's Aura Sphere, you can do this with both a charge or a release of Aura Sphere.

Tips for perfecting your training:
1. Turn off the volume and make your room quiet. This helps you hear the clicks of your controller inputs and reinforces your muscle memory when you do it correctly. In other words, you'll hear the correct sequence of clicks and remember the sound/feeling/timing of doing them when you get it right.
2. If you wavebounce perfectly, you should have no problem fitting in a wavebounce Aura Sphere immediately after a short-hopped Fair and before hitting the ground. Use this application to shorten your possible window of completion, and you will force yourself to get used to the speed and timing of the tech. This is also a very practical technique to use in combat, so give it a try regardless.
3. DON'T GIVE UP!! This can be frustrating, and after a million wiffs you're gonna start to hate Force Palm, but just slow it down, practice your tilting, and focus on the speed and delicacy of the inputs.

Good luck, hope you get it down! If you keep accidentally doing FP, you're either moving too far past the neutral position on your first tilt back, or you're inputting the B-reversal too slowly.

 

[Alus]

\
4. A player may consider themselves to have mastered their character when they no longer lose a set against ANYONE while using that character (EVER), and they can win without having to resort to exploiting their opponents' character/personal weaknesses.

Win without exploiting a character OR PERSONAL weakness?

Win without winning?

oh ****.

That really is beyond anyone!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

kk, can anyone explain how to do the double B reversal? (IE: The one where you jump forward, then bounce back while still facing in the same direction). If someone can explain it AND if possible try too upload a video with it (with the actual hand movements, not the bounce itself) it would be very very very helpful. I have been attempting to do it for a week, and I think I know the button inputs, but I am just doing the timing wrong or something.

/shrug

Also, if you can actually get a video, but need help uploading it, I can easily do that for anyone.

Trela explained it I think in a talk with Flamey so ask Trela.

 

[BlueXenon]

I know this is a stupid question lol.
How do i do a standing grab in the opposit direction. I know how to do it when running but not when standing.

 

[DeLux]

Hi guys, I'm DeLux and I write smash tutorials.

The "double B reversal" you are asking about is what is called "wavebouncing" or less often a "recoil special".

In order to do this, you have to combine both methods of turning around a special option. The two methods are:

Turn around special: Where one makes an analog stick input in the direction opposite of which they are facing before they input special button.

For example:

Analog back tap and release > Special button = Turn around Neutral special
Analog back tap and hold > Special button = Turn around Side Special
Analog back tap and/or hold down in reverse direction > down + special button = Turn around Down Special
Analog back tap and/or hold Up in reverse direction > Up + special Button = Turn around Up Special



The secondary method of turning around while performing a special is a "Reversal". This causes a player's momentum to shift in the completely opposite direction while turning around and performing the option.

For example:
Special button > Tap analog stick back = Neutral Special Reversal
Tap and/or hold analog stick in direction you are facing > Special Button > Tap Analog Stick Back = Side Special Reversal
Tap and/or hold analog stick in direction you are facing with down orientation > Special Button > Tap analog stick back = Down Special Reversal
Tap and/or hold analog stick in direction you are facing with up orientation > Special Button > Tap analog stick back = Up Special Reversal

It is important to note that the direction you tap the analog stick does not equal the direction your character will move and will is more inline with the direction they will face. It is not uncommon with a reversal to tap the control stick left only to have your character to reverse momentum to the right, especially if you were drifting backwards in compared to the direction your character was facing originally.


So in order to do the wavebounce, you combine the two:

Gently move control stick in reverse direction > Special input > tap control stick forward = Neutral Special Wave Bounce
Tap control stick back and hold > Special input > tap control stick forward = Side Special Wave Bounce
Tap control stick back and hold in downward orientation > Special input > tap control stick forward = Down Special Wave Bounce
Tap control stick back and hold in upward orientation > Special Input > Tap control stick forward = Up Special Wave Bounce

Remember, the reversal aspect of the special option is what causes the bounce back as it reverses momentum. So in order to bounce backwards, you want to retain as much of your forward momentum as possible with precise and efficient inputs prior to hitting special. Similarly, if you drift away while facing from someone, you can use the wave bounce to launch yourself back towards them. But in effect, the turn around special aspect makes you face backwards, and then the reversal aspect makes you turn around yet again (while shifting momentum) making you face the original direction.

I know this is a stupid question lol.
How do i do a standing grab in the opposit direction. I know how to do it when running but not when standing.

If you input behind you with enough delicacy to not induce a run and hit grab, that is one way. If you buffer a control stick flick and a grab and release the grab button input within the buffer window to not cause a shield buffer, it will frame perfect turn around grab.

 

[Alus]

if every poster was like you, the world would be a better place.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

if every poster was like you, the world would be a better place.

This lol.

Delux is very swag.

 

[DrSoussou]

If you buffer a control stick flick and a grab and release the grab button input within the buffer window to not cause a shield buffer, it will frame perfect turn around grab.

This seems like an extremely useful piece of information to me, I constantly mess up standing turnaround grabs. Usually I'll be shielding in front of an opponent and they'll roll or land behind me within grab range. I try to turnaround grab but seem to always shield and roll.

Edit: I tend to use Z to grab, but I also set X to grab and I feel like I don't have this problem when I use that button instead.

However, to perform a buffered turnaround grab like this, don't you need to be doing it out of something with ending lag? For example, if I'm holding shield as in the above scenario this won't work, and is probably why I always roll (input direction while shielding = roll). Should I spot-dodge and then use that lag to perform the buffer?

And I agree, very well-written post. Much better description than mine.

 

[BlueXenon]

If you buffer a control stick flick and a grab and release the grab button input within the buffer window to not cause a shield buffer, it will frame perfect turn around grab.

Does this mean i have to let go of the grab button very fast like i would let go of y very fast to short hop?
Thankyou

 

[ViperGold42]

Hello Lucario mains. I've decided recently to pick up Lucario. I've already learned the grab release pummel (with no help from a guide) already, I knew a few kill moves, what are Lucario's WORST and I mean the abosulte bane of Lucario.

 

[DrSoussou]

if you're talking about moves, probably UpSmash or DT

if you're talking about MU's, my least favorite is MK. he's a gimping maching and Lucario's UpB makes it so that you'll die if you ever get knocked off the stage. the others are all pretty-much just -1: Olimar, Snake, D3, G&W, Fox. out of those few, the worst is Snake in my opinion. his ground game is so much better than ours and he kills so early that we rarely get to take advantage of our aura bonus

also, are you referring to the grab release chains Lucario has on guys like Fox and Lucas?

 

[BlueXenon]

I used up smash a lot to surprise people and use it as a mix up, i didnt know it was bad.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Honestly, none of lucario's moves are bad. They all have there uses. U-smash is great if your expecting an airdodge. I use it sparingly as a surprise kill move.

 

[ViperGold42]

if you're talking about moves, probably UpSmash or DT

if you're talking about MU's, my least favorite is MK. he's a gimping maching and Lucario's UpB makes it so that you'll die if you ever get knocked off the stage. the others are all pretty-much just -1: Olimar, Snake, D3, G&W, Fox. out of those few, the worst is Snake in my opinion. his ground game is so much better than ours and he kills so early that we rarely get to take advantage of our aura bonus

also, are you referring to the grab release chains Lucario has on guys like Fox and Lucas?

yes. I can pull of that grab release chain on nearly everyone. MK....I'm not surprised. Lucario's kills are hard to get but so are TL's so its not a challenge I can't over come.

 

[sadpanda811]

hey lucario boards i am picking up lucario for doubles with my friend he is a G&W main and if u guys could give me some tips with lucario and we are going to try the anubis strategy in doubles so any tips would be nice and i already read the guide about lucario .

 

[ViperGold42]

okay. for the grab release chain grab, what move should I use out of it? Utilt or Fsmash? I think a fully charge Aura Sphere could work.

 

[RT]

hey lucario boards i am picking up lucario for doubles with my friend he is a G&W main and if u guys could give me some tips with lucario and we are going to try the anubis strategy in doubles so any tips would be nice and i already read the guide about lucario .

You job is to give buckets and grab your opponents so that they are hit by buckets.

Your partner is the key to the strategy.

 

[sadpanda811]

ik that but do u know what the anubis strategy is? thats what we are going to try to do. so any tips for doing that

 

[RT]

MK planks

Lucario fights.

Less stocks Lucario has, stronger he gets, so Lucario is doing most of the work.

 

[DrSoussou]

@viper: I've literally never seen anyone use that tech against a character that's not Lucas or Ness, because they're the only characters against which its even close to guaranteed. worry very little about this, and even less about what to do after it. if anything, you should be getting them to the edge of the map since you're so good at it, so try to gimp them instead of using a smash move.

Edit: there are also many more options out of a grab that you could be doing. try to learn those instead because they'll lead to better situations for you.

@sadpanda: basically use Lucario to go 1v2 against your opponents while your teammate takes 0% and tries to help only when its completely safe or completely necessary to save you. you might end up having to share one of their stocks near the end of the match.

 

[ViperGold42]

@viper: I've literally never seen anyone use that tech against a character that's not Lucas or Ness, because they're the only characters against which its even close to guaranteed. worry very little about this, and even less about what to do after it. if anything, you should be getting them to the edge of the map since you're so good at it, so try to gimp them instead of using a smash move.

Edit: there are also many more options out of a grab that you could be doing. try to learn those instead because they'll lead to better situations for you.

@sadpanda: basically use Lucario to go 1v2 against your opponents while your teammate takes 0% and tries to help only when its completely safe or completely necessary to save you. you might end up having to share one of their stocks near the end of the match.

then you must be missing out because I can do that chain grab release like that with no problems of getting hit back. just need a follow up, usually when I get another grab I follow up with a throw that tosses them towards the edge of the map and why would I need to learn what I already know?

 

[Sunnysunny]

...? You mean, as in a pummel release where you don't throw them?

Are you serious dude? That doesn't work on any other characters but Lucas and Ness. They have a different grab release animation from the rest of the cast that take longer then other characters, so you have a frame advantage on them. Against any other character they can do basically anything to stop it.

Who are you trying this on exactly?

 

[ViperGold42]

...? You mean, as in a pummel release where you don't throw them?

Are you serious dude? That doesn't work on any other characters but Lucas and Ness. They have a different grab release animation from the rest of the cast that take longer then other characters, so you have a frame advantage on them. Against any other character they can do basically anything to stop it. Any attack under 8 frames can stuff it.

Who are you trying this on exactly?

I hope we are all talking about the same thing. You grab pummel and they break out and you can regrab. because it works for me on all cast. I honestly think we are thinking of different grabs.

 

[DrSoussou]

This game is about risk vs reward, and the ratio is not in favor of continuous grabs out of a pummel release. If we mis-time our buffered dash, we get punished hard by most characters' fast moves (tilt, jab, etc). Even if you perform the next dash grab perfectly every time, most players that aren't braindead are going to catch on after the second time. Everyone but Lucas and Ness will always be able to beat your dash by buffering something fast out of their grab-release lag, and you'll have missed an opportunity to throw.

I'm not saying to never do this, but the better option would always be to go for a throw -> follow-up before being punished, in which case you'll take serious damage and only get away with having dealt 4-5%.

If you like chains, try a FP chain grab instead. At low percents (especially on heavy characters) it can net you between 20-40%.

 

[Sunnysunny]

No. No thats what I thought. Dude, you do not have the frame advantage to do that. At all.

When the opponent breaks out they start at a nuetral stance. Same as yours. Meaning you should both be able to move at the same time. Lucario's dash grab comes out in 8 frames. Literally every character has a move that can stop that except ness, lucas, and possibly wario.

Again, what opponents are you trying this on dude? Humans? Computers? Who?

ik that but do u know what the anubis strategy is? thats what we are going to try to do. so any tips for doing that

Lol as RT said, Lucario fights, your partner stalls.

I'll actually be doing this strat soon in tourney. Been practicing it lately.
So what your gonna wanna do is have your partner avoid the opponents as much as possible. I'm not sure how good G&W is it at that, but yea. As the opponents start taking stocks from the Lucario, he'll grow stronger. He gains an auraboost for how many stocks he's behind. It takes into account for ALL players stocks though. Even your partners.

Just keep your partner out of harms way because they WILL try and take stocks from him so you don't get to powerful. Its your job to hold them off and your partners job to stall, and chip in ONLY when necessary. With auraboost you should be able to take them on both at once if your careful enough. Even though its basically 2v1 its still a real broken strat. =p

 

[ViperGold42]

This game is about risk vs reward, and the ratio is not in favor of continuous grabs out of a pummel release. If we mis-time our buffered dash, we get punished hard by most characters' fast moves (tilt, jab, etc). Even if you perform the next dash grab perfectly every time, most players that aren't braindead are going to catch on after the second time. Everyone but Lucas and Ness will always be able to beat your dash by buffering something fast out of their grab-release lag, and you'll have missed an opportunity to throw.

I'm not saying to never do this, but the better option would always be to go for a throw -> follow-up before being punished, in which case you'll take serious damage and only get away with having dealt 4-5%.

If you like chains, try a FP chain grab instead. At low percents (especially on heavy characters) it can net you between 20-40%.

well at least you're not telling me I'm a nobody and it will always fail. and yeah I do like doing those. but I don't try to relay on it so much because I always go for a throw when I reach the edge. SunnySunny keeps telling me it will always fail execpt on Lucas or Ness which I don't know Lucario's reseach. but I do go for throw after a few gra releases. thank you sir for being a real gentleman.

 

[DrSoussou]

You're welcome, just do me a favor and try other things besides this strategy. You will eventually find that there are many better options and you'll probably see yourself using it very rarely.

At close range, try a Jab1-2 and then cancel your jab (quickly tap down) into another Jab 1-2. This is decently frame-safe and really throws off and angers an opponent who thinks they have your jab combos and follow-ups figured out. Also, you can move quickly from a jab2 into shield-cancelled grab > throw. If you don't like that, try Jab1-2 > FP or Jab1-2 > tilt. Combine all this and you can get something like: Jab1-2 > Jab1-2 > tilt > grab pummel release > FP. Then maybe SHFair > FFNair > FCAS.

Edit: Also, Sunny is right about the frame disadvantage. Normally, that is enough reason alone to not choose something as a viable option.

 

[ViperGold42]

You're welcome, just do me a favor and try other things besides this strategy. You will eventually find that there are many better options and you'll probably see yourself using it very rarely.

At close range, try a Jab1-2 and then cancel your jab (quickly tap down) into another Jab 1-2. This is decently frame-safe and really throws off and angers an opponent who thinks they have your jab combos and follow-ups figured out. Also, you can move quickly from a jab2 into shield-cancelled grab > throw. If you don't like that, try Jab1-2 > FP or Jab1-2 > tilt. Combine all this and you can get something like: Jab1-2 > Jab1-2 > tilt > grab pummel release > FP. Then maybe SHFair > FFNair > FCAS.

Edit: Also, Sunny is right about the frame disadvantage. Normally, that is enough reason alone to not choose something as a viable option.

oh I ignore sunny since he PM'd me calling me a nobody so whatever. and I try so many diffent things. I do want to ask if charging up Aura Sphere in the Air and canceling it by air dodging is a smart move? Also o nthe ground by sidestepping.

 

[Sunnysunny]

saltsaltsalt

Duh. If your gonna treat me like **** you get the same treatment, kid. I'm only stating the truth. If you wanna get anywhere you have to except advice from people. Don't be so vain that you let your ego get in the way. Your not showing your very mature, at all. Only reason you're even excepting ANY advice now is out of spite.

And yes, airdodging aurasphere from the air is a smart idea. Trela, the top Lucario player does it as a mobility option. He charges it as he falls, then airdodges the instant he hits the ground so that he can move instantly when he hits the ground. Sidestepping whilst on the ground can work too, but....just don't be predictable with it. One of lucario's greatest strengths is all the options he has. Vary it up with, shielding, then jumping out of shield into an aerial, lobbing the aurasphere, or shield canceling it into another option.

 

[BlueXenon]

Can someone please tell me about the marth mu? Everytime i go near marth i get hit. I know the mu very well with metaknight, but it seems like its completely different for lucario.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Ahh darn. I gotta go to my Taekwondo lessons for now, but when I get back i'll help ya. I hated that MU with a passion and learned it inside and out just to have a fighting chance. I'll pm ya tonight what I know.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

How does Lucario's aura work in doubles?
Be as specific as you can please :3

 

[DrSoussou]

Ahh darn. I gotta go to my Taekwondo lessons for now, but when I get back i'll help ya. I hated that MU with a passion and learned it inside and out just to have a fighting chance. I'll pm ya tonight what I know.

Please post it here, I'm unfamiliar with the matchup as well.

How does Lucario's aura work in doubles?
Be as specific as you can please :3

I'm sure someone has worked out the numbers and quantified the rate at which stock bonus and %-bonus affect their respective increase, but what's important to know is that you gain bonus both from being behind in stock and damage.

In a 1v1, Lucario's aura maxes out at 167% when on the same stock as his opponent, and deals a 23% aura sphere. When down by two or more stock, it maxes out at 155%, and deals a 35% aura sphere!

From this you can conclude that the strength he gains from reaching a high % on the same stock is more significant than the strength he gains from being behind by one stock when both players are at 0%.

I have not run numbers in teams, but in singles there is no difference between aura bonus when two stock behind and aura bonus when three stock behind, so I assume this holds true. However, team settings could have their own quantifier for Lucario's aura bonus. For example, the engine could view two players' stocks as a single "team stock count" and calculate his bonus based on that somehow.

This is speculation, I do not know for sure.

Just know that when you're playing teams, if you have one stock and your opponents both have two, you're probably VERY strong (especially if you're near 100% damage). I hope that helped.

@Sunny and Viper: EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY