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Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

N. Onymous

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I don't know why, but I have the presentiment that this monday is the turn of someone big... or Ridley (that's pretty much already deconfirmed, but people can't belive it yet), or Bandana Dee, or the chorus kids.
It's entirely possible. As we draw closer to release, the dev team is releasing more and more info about the game. New Assist Trophies, items, and stages are becoming essentially a weekly thing now. The odds are stacked against us, but anything can happen at this point!
 
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Oracle_Summon

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It's entirely possible. As we draw closer to release, the dev team is releasing more and more info about the game. New Assist Trophies, items, and stages are becoming essentially a weekly thing now. The odds are stacked against us, but anything can happen at this point!
Yep. We gotta hope that Lip does not show up on Monday or gets deconfirmed.
 

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Yep. We gotta hope that Lip does not show up on Monday or gets deconfirmed.
If the "Retro Character Assist Trophy Monday" pattern happens next monday, there is a slight chance we might see something related to Lip or Panel De Pon. Especially since the pattern have been about "Japan-Only" characters so far.
 

Oracle_Summon

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If the "Retro Character Assist Trophy Monday" pattern happens next monday, there is a slight chance we might see something related to Lip or Panel De Pon. Especially since the pattern have been about "Japan-Only" characters so far.
Yeah, that is what I am afraid of.
 

N. Onymous

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It could be a big coincidence, too. Lip may not even be considered "retro" by Nintendo's standards. A puzzle rep, definitely, and another female character to help balance the sexes (seems to be a goal of Team Sakurai this time around), but PDP won't hit its platinum anniversary for another year yet. Panel de Pon is a 19-year-old franchise though, so it and she deserve respect and recogniton for that at least.
 

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I'm kinda hyped to see Lip as an assist in the coming weeks, actually. I really don't expect her to be playable, so if I don't see her as an assist or a trophy I fear she may be faceless in this game once again.

I want her to appear somewhere.
 

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Okay, I get it, this is just a "sanctuary" not an actual place to discuss the character's possibility in the game in comparison to others. In that case then, I don't have much to add, I'd rather see many other characters, particularly international retro ones. But if there was a Japanese-Only character again... I'd rather it have been Takamaru... Heheh, but no, Lip would be my second choice. There's far less important Japanese-Only characters to choose from.

I'm hoping for assist, honestly. Panel De Pon/Puzzle League is that sort of franchise, not too important, but important enough to not be forgotten.
 
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Souldin

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Okay, I get it, this is just a "sanctuary" not an actual place to discuss the character's possibility in the game in comparison to others. In that case then, I don't have much to add, I'd rather see many other characters, particularly international retro ones. But if there was a Japanese-Only character again... I'd rather it have been Takamaru... Heheh, but no, Lip would be my second choice. There's far less important Japanese-Only characters to choose from.

I'm hoping for assist, honestly. Panel De Pon/Puzzle League is that sort of franchise, not too important, but important enough to not be forgotten.
Puzzle League has a good 5+ games to it, and has had entries from the SNES to the DS so it's a fairly big for a Nintendo series, particularly with most of the bigger ones represented by playable characters at this point (off the top of my head, Advance Wars, and The Legendary Starfy are the only 5 or more Nintendo game series left without playable representation, though if there are others feel free to point them out). Furthermore the puzzle genre is a pretty key genre within video games, and it lacks any pure playable representative in SSB so I'd say Puzzle League being Nintendo's biggest puzzle series makes it fairly important.

Discussions regarding a character's inclusion are worth having, though the manner you approached it was not the right way to go about it. Your sort of discussion would be more appropriate in a general character discussion rather than bringing forth a single character that you are promoting and using it in a manner that comes across as an attack on the character to whom this particular thread is dedicated to.

Anything else I'd say in regards to you and the point you brought up when you came into this thread was brought up in my prior response to you.
 
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~ Valkyrie ~

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I'll be just fine settling with Lip in the Assist-status, that'd now complete the amazing collection of Assist Trophies to me (especially now that Sable's on there - shippings abound :awesome:)
 

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I don't think it's the number of games that matters, well sort of, but I think it's how much attention Nintendo gives the games/franchise that matters even more. Say, Rhythm Heaven or Daigasso! Band Brothers/Jam with the Band, Rhythm Heaven has fewer games, but it gets so much more attention from Nintendo, so much so that I expect it to get a character before Jam with the Band (which already has an assist anyway, but you get my point, it's not a BIG franchise).
 

Souldin

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I don't think it's the number of games that matters, well sort of, but I think it's how much attention Nintendo gives the games/franchise that matters even more. Say, Rhythm Heaven or Daigasso! Band Brothers/Jam with the Band, Rhythm Heaven has fewer games, but it gets so much more attention from Nintendo, so much so that I expect it to get a character before Jam with the Band (which already has an assist anyway, but you get my point, it's not a BIG franchise).
There's a good point there, at least in more current times. Utilising the Pokémon franchise to further strengthen it's promotion, as well as the original usage of naming it 'Tetris Attack' were things done to push it into more focus. Furthermore, as I did previously noted, Lip did herself receive some strong cameos, though almost entirely restricted to Japan (still, that is where Nintendo is based and tend to focus on).

An again, there aren't many of the series left with either much series size nor much attention given them which lack a playable rep in SSB. I guess you could say there's Xenoblade, although that's only been getting much attention with the recent Wii U version. I'm not too sure on how much attention the latest Fossil Fighters or Chibi Robo entries were given, though I feel it was more Japan focused... Nintendo are quite keen on re-releasing Urban Champion... should that count? That said, Clu Clu Land still gets a nice bit of attention with re-releases and appearances in Wario Ware, DK King of Swing, NES Remix and such.

Really, I feel if we also take into account how much focus Nintendo gives them... the only other series I see with fairly decent promotion would be Xenoblade (though entirely thanks to X), Nintendogs, and Art Academy. If we're sticking to retro's though, then the only ones that seem to get a bit of focus to them are the Excite series, Balloon Fight, Urban Champion, and Clu Clu Land.
 

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Clu Clu Land is on a similar level to Ice Climber, so I don't see it as an impossibility either... it's just, Ice Climbers work so naturally for the gameplay of Smash since their original game is on a 2D plane with jumping and attacking. Bubbles from Clu Clu Land is a top-down point of view. Not that they couldn't make it work, but I feel Ice Climber already takes its place. Either way, Balloon Fight is bigger than both of them and that still can't seem to get a character despite getting an item, stage, and a move with the Villager.

A puzzle-focused character did exist, Dr. Mario. I don't see him coming back though, but just saying, Smash did have somebody from a puzzle series. And Dr. Mario is bigger than Panel De Pon/Puzzle League.
 

RankoChan

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A puzzle-focused character did exist, Dr. Mario. I don't see him coming back though, but just saying, Smash did have somebody from a puzzle series. And Dr. Mario is bigger than Panel De Pon/Puzzle League.
I'd say the franchises are about even in size since they have the same amount of releases (roughly 8), usually get new releases around the same time, and are frequently bundled together. The only thing the Dr. Mario franchise has over Panel de Pon is the recent release of Dr. Luigi, but it probably won't be too long until we see a new Wii U/3DS Panel de Pon entry since we usually get 2 entries per console generation.

While I agree Dr. Mario was a puzzle rep, he definitely wasn't puzzle-focused due to being a Mario clone. It's a shame since he could receive an awesome puzzle-based moveset and represent the genre well if the Smash team put more time into his development.
 

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Clu Clu Land is on a similar level to Ice Climber, so I don't see it as an impossibility either... it's just, Ice Climbers work so naturally for the gameplay of Smash since their original game is on a 2D plane with jumping and attacking. Bubbles from Clu Clu Land is a top-down point of view. Not that they couldn't make it work, but I feel Ice Climber already takes its place. Either way, Balloon Fight is bigger than both of them and that still can't seem to get a character despite getting an item, stage, and a move with the Villager.

A puzzle-focused character did exist, Dr. Mario. I don't see him coming back though, but just saying, Smash did have somebody from a puzzle series. And Dr. Mario is bigger than Panel De Pon/Puzzle League.
I'd argue that Bubbles is on a higher level than Ice Climbers (who I'm very glad are in SSB), having had plenty of cameos, a playable role in DK: King of Swing (which from what I heard, was originally going to be a Clu Clu Land game), and is Nintendo's first female protagonist.

I'd argue that Bubbles would also feel pretty natural, and that a fighter like SSB is one of the few games she can make a perfect transition to. Her game features constant movement and turning, both things which can be done in the more free movement game like SSB. I see her with a move-set and playstyle based around near constant movement; her strongest attacks being her dashing A and aerial, with special moves that allow her to begin running forward, keep running forward without interruption, or quickly change her direction. Even though I'am a Lip supporter most of all, I do believe Bubble is the most likely retro rep, and have believed that even compared to the recently de-confirmed Takamaru (well, given his cameo in Nintendo Land I'd have then put them as equals in likelihood).

Key word being 'did', and at that, not very well. Dr. Mario is no longer part of SSB and when he did his move-set took no inspiration from the Puzzle genre and was instead just a clone of Mario. Furthermore in regards to SSB he was not considered a separate series, but a part of the Mario series. Whilst in the general realm of gaming it'd come under as a spin-off series, it was accepted as just being a part of the Mario series in SSB.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I'd personally dig Bubbles since I like her game a lot, and she'd make pretty unique character.

On the other hand, I made a rather strange vow: if Lip's not to be seen at all in this game (aside from Trophy or similar), I'll make Lucina hold her Stick in Smash Run(s) or other modes enabling equiptment as a sort of memento: Since Lucina loves flowers and both characters are made by I.S - so I think it'd be fitting of her to fight for the disappeared flower fairy as well. (So much fun with headcanons...)
 
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Souldin

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Why are you guys giving up on Lip so fast, it's not even sunday.
I certainly haven't given up on Lip, and neither has quite a lot of the supporters within this thread. It just happens to be that a lot us would feel okay if Lip ends up an Assist Trophy, we'd prefer her playable, but if not then the 2nd best thing is naturally appreciated.
 

N. Onymous

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A puzzle-focused character did exist, Dr. Mario. I don't see him coming back though, but just saying, Smash did have somebody from a puzzle series. And Dr. Mario is bigger than Panel De Pon/Puzzle League.
Dr. Mario is automatically going to get more recognition than Panel de Pon/Lip by virtue of having Mr. More Recognizable Than Mickey Mouse himself in the title role. Despite its being fun, it would probably be written off as "just another Tetris clone" if it used original characters (in fact, the game Tetris 2/Tetris Flash uses basically the same mechanics with tetrominoes instead of pills). Being part of an established franchise really helps visibility.

We're still lacking a puzzle representative ever since the good doctor was cut for Brawl, though. Strategy and fitness and slice-of-life and platforming and swordplay action are all well and good, but puzzles are still a major part of NIntendo's output and it feels kind of... odd/not right/something without a character to represent them. It might as well be the second banana of Nintendo puzzlers.

Why are you guys giving up on Lip so fast, it's not even sunday.
Lip's Stick was confirmed ages ago in a presskit leak. I think that killed a lot of enthusiasm down here, but there's always some hope that she'll show up, even if not as a fighter. Especially as of late.
 
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Well don't rule out Tetris, we may be seeing it in the Game Boy stage... Not that it's a character, but Tetris anything is bigger than any puzzle rep could be.
 

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Well don't rule out Tetris, we may be seeing it in the Game Boy stage... Not that it's a character, but Tetris anything is bigger than any puzzle rep could be.
True, that would be a huge thing, though the extent to which Nintendo has rights to Tetris has always been a confusing thing to me. An as you yourself point out, it's still not a playable character.
 

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Well don't rule out Tetris, we may be seeing it in the Game Boy stage... Not that it's a character, but Tetris anything is bigger than any puzzle rep could be.
Except there's no playable characters who could ever fill that niche, and Nintendo doesn't own Tetris. They just had a license to publish a few Tetris games a while back and use the Tetris name, and I don't think they can even use the Tetris name anymore (which is why they can't re-release Tetris Attack at this point).


Why are you guys giving up on Lip so fast, it's not even sunday.
I haven't given up on Lip, but I think she's incredibly unlikely at this point. I'd be shocked if she made it, though, and I'd absolutely love it.
 

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technically, there is still a very little chance. The screw attack is still an item, and was an item since Melee, despite being also an attack of Samus. Ness' baseball bat and the regular baseball bat, but that's a slighty different thing, I think that the screw attack works better as example. Or the fire flower, since Mario is still able to shoot fireballs even without it.
But I can't see Lip without her stick, and it would be strange having her with two sticks in hands, one by default and the other as item.
Not impossible though.
 

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technically, there is still a very little chance. The screw attack is still an item, and was an item since Melee, despite being also an attack of Samus. Ness' baseball bat and the regular baseball bat, but that's a slighty different thing, I think that the screw attack works better as example. Or the fire flower, since Mario is still able to shoot fireballs even without it.
But I can't see Lip without her stick, and it would be strange having her with two sticks in hands, one by default and the other as item.
Not impossible though.
Lip can use the stick for a variety of different attacks, but its still available as a regular item as well which only does one thing.
 

Bingoshi

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You know, isn't Lip's stick usually in a bud like state until it sort of blooms when she waves it around? They could make it so that when she's doing regular attacks like hitting someone with the stick, it stays in its bud form, but when she does special attacks (like summoning a garbage block or something), it blooms. That could make it look visually different than the item version of Lip's stick. Just a thought.
 

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Lips wand looks like a stick of corn
It's unbloomed, it stays that way for the most part in the game and it opens whenever she uses her magic. This is why i think Lip's Stick returning as an item isn't a complete strike against her being playable, it wouldn't look out of place
for Lip to have her unbloomed Stick next to the item.
 

Laniv

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Snake had his down smash mines that exploded when someone walked over them.

Motion-Sensor Bombs were still in that game.

Keep on fighting the good fight.
 

RouffWestie

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Snake had his down smash mines that exploded when someone walked over them.

Motion-Sensor Bombs were still in that game.

Keep on fighting the good fight.
Oh my god, can people please stop doing these faulty comparisons.

Motion-Sensor Bombs are generic Motion-Sensor Bombs, not "Snake's Motion-Sensor Bombs from MGS." Home run bat is a generic Home run bat not "Ness's Home run bat from Earthbound."
Now on the other hand, there is one and only one Master Sword. It belongs to Link and his descendants. There is only one Falchion. It belongs to Marth and his descendants.

And I may be wrong, but I'm guesssing there are multiple Screw Attacks just lying around whatever the world of Metroid is. So that's not a fair comparison either.
 

lightdasher

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Oh my god, can people please stop doing these faulty comparisons.

Motion-Sensor Bombs are generic Motion-Sensor Bombs, not "Snake's Motion-Sensor Bombs from MGS." Home run bat is a generic Home run bat not "Ness's Home run bat from Earthbound."
Now on the other hand, there is one and only one Master Sword. It belongs to Link and his descendants. There is only one Falchion. It belongs to Marth and his descendants.

And I may be wrong, but I'm guesssing there are multiple Screw Attacks just lying around whatever the world of Metroid is. So that's not a fair comparison either.
Olimars final smash is an item
 

J04KlM

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Oh my god, can people please stop doing these faulty comparisons.

Motion-Sensor Bombs are generic Motion-Sensor Bombs, not "Snake's Motion-Sensor Bombs from MGS." Home run bat is a generic Home run bat not "Ness's Home run bat from Earthbound."
Now on the other hand, there is one and only one Master Sword. It belongs to Link and his descendants. There is only one Falchion. It belongs to Marth and his descendants.

And I may be wrong, but I'm guesssing there are multiple Screw Attacks just lying around whatever the world of Metroid is. So that's not a fair comparison either.
Samus literally has Screw Attack as her uppercut and it functions exactly the same as the item. It's also Samus' most iconic move from her series; and it's obtained once in each Metroid game so it is "the" Screw Attack by the way, no multiple.

And i guess what Laniv was trying to say is that Motion Bomb and Homerun Bat functions the same as Ness' and Snake's counterparts, only that they are more powerful. Though it is kind of a stretch, since they aren't related by franchise like you said.

Olimars final smash is an item
This too is a reason an item should never deconfirm a character, or at least the moveset of that said character.
 

smashkirby

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Samus literally has Screw Attack as her uppercut and it functions exactly the same as the item. It's also Samus' most iconic move from her series; and it's obtained once in each Metroid game so it is "the" Screw Attack by the way, no multiple.

And i guess what Laniv was trying to say is that Motion Bomb and Homerun Bat functions the same as Ness' and Snake's counterparts, only that they are more powerful. Though it is kind of a stretch, since they aren't related by franchise like you said.



This too is a reason an item should never deconfirm a character, or at least the moveset of that said character.
TBH, If no one minds me bringing this up, this is also why I personally think a playable Pilot Wings rep is not out of the possibility.
 

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TBH, If no one minds me bringing this up, this is also why I personally think a playable Pilot Wings rep is not out of the possibility.
The main problem with a Pilot Wings rep is there really are no characters... Panel de Pon has Lip as a mascot (even if she's not being used nowadays), Pilot Wings doesn't have anyone really.
 

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Haven't been here in a long time, but I figured I'd stop by to show some support for Lip! Though I still think here chances of being playable are super slim (especially considering the current "japanese retro deconfirmation mondays) it can't hurt too much to hope. Assist Trophy Lip would be pretty rad, too.
 

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Haven't been here in a long time, but I figured I'd stop by to show some support for Lip! Though I still think here chances of being playable are super slim (especially considering the current "japanese retro deconfirmation mondays) it can't hurt too much to hope. Assist Trophy Lip would be pretty rad, too.
Hi! Great to see you again!

Still loving your art as always~
 

Blucas

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Oh my god, can people please stop doing these faulty comparisons.

Motion-Sensor Bombs are generic Motion-Sensor Bombs, not "Snake's Motion-Sensor Bombs from MGS." Home run bat is a generic Home run bat not "Ness's Home run bat from Earthbound."
Now on the other hand, there is one and only one Master Sword. It belongs to Link and his descendants. There is only one Falchion. It belongs to Marth and his descendants.

And I may be wrong, but I'm guesssing there are multiple Screw Attacks just lying around whatever the world of Metroid is. So that's not a fair comparison either.
Ness' bat had the same model of the home run bat in past games.
 
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Ness' bat had the same model of the home run bat in past games.
Model yes, texture no. There are so many ways to model a baseball bat after all. But no, Ness' bat isn't the same. Even the trophies attribute the home-run bats to Smash and not Earthound.

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Blucas

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Model yes, texture no. There are so many ways to model a baseball bat after all. But no, Ness' bat isn't the same. Even the trophies attribute the home-run bats to Smash and not Earthound.
But the textures were the same, except in the smash 64, it had a different kind of colour, look up ness portrait in the melee page.
What about this
 
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