Puzzle League/Panel De Pon General (Former SSB4 Lip Support Thread)

[Kapus]

The little drawings on the tree stump are SO ADORABLE. Reminds me of Kirby's Dreamland 3, really.

I can't wait to play on this stage.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Somewhat relevant to Panel de Pon discussion. My sister came over to my place this weekend and brought our old SNES around with Tetris Attack. I'm a bit rusty as I haven't played in years, and also the fact that due to the connections, the controls are VERY laggy. So naturally, I jump straight into Super Hard Single Player VS., get up to Raphael the Raven and he kills me like three times, then I blow through the final four matches in a cinch.

So PAINFULLY annoying when I get to that point. Ugh. If the controls weren't so laggy I'd have slaughtered the whole thing easily... I should try getting my hands on one of the newer Panel de Pon games and see how they fare up. Tetris Attack (god I hate the name) is by far my favorite Puzzle game of all time.

 

[N. Onymous]

Tetris Attack isn't my favorite title, either. Nintendo clearly was only thinking "MARKETABILITY!" (as if Yoshi wasn't recognizable enough?) and didn't foresee the eventual legal quagmire that would prevent them from ever rereleasing the game. Why do you think we keep getting Pokemon Puzzle League instead of Tetris Attack?

Speaking of, PokePL is, I've heard, much faster and harder than the original Panel de Pon, and since it's a reskin of the eventual Nintendo Puzzle Collection PDP with the four-player mode cut (why?), I'd assume the same is true there as well.

 

[Souldin]

Tetris Attack isn't my favorite title, either. Nintendo clearly was only thinking "MARKETABILITY!" (as if Yoshi wasn't recognizable enough?) and didn't foresee the eventual legal quagmire that would prevent them from ever rereleasing the game. Why do you think we keep getting Pokemon Puzzle League instead of Tetris Attack?

Speaking of, PokePL is, I've heard, much faster and harder than the original Panel de Pon, and since it's a reskin of the eventual Nintendo Puzzle Collection PDP with the four-player mode cut (why?), I'd assume the same is true there as well.

Wait, so not only was Pokémon Puzzle League supposed to be a Panel De Pon game (that I knew, likewise with Tetris Attack on the SNES and Pokémon Puzzle Challenge for the GBC) but it was also going to have a 4 player mode... we really missed out, didn't we?

Hopefully given Nintendo's focus on a broad audience nowadays, if we do get a Puzzle League game in future (though most likely on the 3DS, the Wii U gamepad makes it a very good system to bring the series to), it'll be one starring Lip and the Panel de Pon faeries. I believe the previous DS Puzzle League game was even criticised by the Japanese for the lack of them (and overall criticised for the lack of any thematic).

Anyway, I figured it'd be nice to return this thread a bit to the topic of Lip's possible playable inclusion in SSB. Now I haven't read everything within this thread, I believe I'm faimilar with first 20 or so pages though, so feel free to correct me if anything has already been discussed or detailed.

Whilst the inclusion of the Lip's Stick item does not prevent Lip from playable inclusion, it does raise the question of whether it'll play a part in regards to Lip's inclusion in SSB. For instance, if Lip were a playable character, do you think she'd;

1) Use the Lip's Stick as her natural weapon (like with Link's Sword).

2) Use the Lip's Stick as her neutral weapon, but without the same magical affects that the Lip's Stick item has.

3) Instead have a special move or game mechanic which allows her to obtain a Lip's Stick item in battle.

4) Not use the Lip's Stick in any means for her move-set at all.

Furthermore, for options 1 and 2, do you feel that if she were to have the Lip's Stick that it'd be of a different design to that of the item? Would any redesign of Lip's Stick as a standard weapon coincide with a design change for Lip herself (to varying degrees of course) or vice-versa?

Something I'm rather curious on, though currently my preference is on option 3, or maybe even option 2. I always liked when playing Subspace Emissary that I could start off a stage wielding a Lip's Stick item and I feel something similar for Lip would be pretty cool (and it's not like it hasn't been done to a similar effect before, Zero Suit Samus in Brawl started off with her broken armour ready to throw at opponents).

 

[Deleted member]

The little drawings on the tree stump are SO ADORABLE. Reminds me of Kirby's Dreamland 3, really.

Well, there's still space for one or two more drawings, haha.

Tetris Attack isn't my favorite title, either. Nintendo clearly was only thinking "MARKETABILITY!" (as if Yoshi wasn't recognizable enough?) and didn't foresee the eventual legal quagmire that would prevent them from ever rereleasing the game. Why do you think we keep getting Pokemon Puzzle League instead of Tetris Attack?

Keep getting Pokemon Puzzle League games? I don't follow, there are only two, both being released in 2000/2001 and only one has been comfirmed to have started as a proper PdP game (Puzzle Challenge). Ever since then, there hasn't been a mascot for the series, besides the reskinned PdP game for the GC and a hidden Lip stage in the Japanese version of Puzzle League DS.

Speaking of, PokePL is, I've heard, much faster and harder than the original Panel de Pon, and since it's a reskin of the eventual Nintendo Puzzle Collection PDP with the four-player mode cut (why?), I'd assume the same is true there as well.

How can something be a reskin if it came first? That game was clearly meant to be a Pokemon game from the beginning for marketability, so if anything, the Puzzle Collection PdP is a reskin of that game with added 4 player mode. Read: added. What makes you think the 4 player mode was cut from the N64 game? I don't follow your logic here. I don't see anything on Unseen64 or TCRF regarding a cut 4 player mode.

 

[TCRhade]

Hi, everyone.

I have news regarding @Taigiry 's Lip import. The person I sent Lip to told me to expect an update soon. I don't know when exactly, but I'll keep you posted.

 

[lightdasher]

Being a Lip supporter is painful.

 

[TCRhade]

Being a Lip supporter is painful.

I know, right?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well, as long as we get our (de)confirmation of some sort out finally around or after SSB4's release, then we should be able to rest in peace.

Also Taigiry, I really dig your ingenius stage scenery concept - that thing from Captain Rainbow brought such huge smile on my face.

 

[Grimnir]

Ok guys. We know the moment DLC is officially announced (and according to sources, it certainly will be), you can count on every single support base of characters who didn't make it are going to make as much noise as possible to get noticed. Depending on how the DLC works, it might buy several months of time to campaign for characters before they're decided (unless Nintendo says they've already decided the DLC characters).

So, any ideas on how we can bring Lip into the limelight? A basically Japan-only character from a series which hasn't seen a proper installment in several years with a design meant to appeal exclusively to little girls...Yeah, I've got nothing right now. But give me some time.

 

[Souldin]

Ok guys. We know the moment DLC is officially announced (and according to sources, it certainly will be), you can count on every single support base of characters who didn't make it are going to make as much noise as possible to get noticed. Depending on how the DLC works, it might buy several months of time to campaign for characters before they're decided (unless Nintendo says they've already decided the DLC characters).

So, any ideas on how we can bring Lip into the limelight? A basically Japan-only character from a series which hasn't seen a proper installment in several years with a design meant to appeal exclusively to little girls...Yeah, I've got nothing right now. But give me some time.

The matter of DLC is not something I'm truly bothering to consider at the moment, both in how it'd be a waste of time if Sakurai never considers DLC, and in the fact that Lip still has her chances to join in the remaining time we have and I'd like to wait and see first.

That said, when it comes to highlighting Lip the key factors would be in presenting her unique move-set possibilities, her ability to serve as representation for the Puzzle genre, and in fact how her design is meant to appeal to little girls. Nintendo, and Sakurai, do like to try and include as many people as possible with their games, Lip targets a part of an audience that I do not believe they have any character in SSB targeting specifically (Kirby and Pikachu appeal to kids in general).

There is more I could say if I were to think harder about arguing the case; but for now I do not feel the need to worry. I feel confident that we will be seeing a retro series newcomer this SSB, and whilst there is plenty of decent competition such as Bubbles, Mach Rider... and for some reason Duck Hunt Dog, I feel Lip has a great shot at obtaining playable status still.

 

[N. Onymous]

Keep getting Pokemon Puzzle League games? I don't follow, there are only two, both being released in 2000/2001 and only one has been comfirmed to have started as a proper PdP game (Puzzle Challenge). Ever since then, there hasn't been a mascot for the series, besides the reskinned PdP game for the GC and a hidden Lip stage in the Japanese version of Puzzle League DS.

On the Virtual Console. The copyright issues with Tetris Attack are most likely the reason why we didn't get it on the U VC when Panel de Pon was released there in Japan. Most likely, they're waiting until they've got the N64 service up and running so they can release Pokemon Puzzle League.

How can something be a reskin if it came first? That game was clearly meant to be a Pokemon game from the beginning for marketability, so if anything, the Puzzle Collection PdP is a reskin of that game with added 4 player mode. Read: added. What makes you think the 4 player mode was cut from the N64 game? I don't follow your logic here. I don't see anything on Unseen64 or TCRF regarding a cut 4 player mode.

The way I head it, the Puzzle Collection sequel was originally planned for the N64, but was canceled for some reason. What was completed at the time was polished up, Pokemon-ified, and released in the international market as Pokemon Puzzle League. It's kind of like what happened with Dr. Mario 64 (also an NPC game). I could be wrong, though.

(That, incidentally, is most likely the reason why Pokemon Puzzle Challenge exists in its final form. It was originally planned as Panel de Pon GB, but when the N64 game was canceled they reskinned it into a Pokemon game to fit - although it's based on Gen 2 instead of Gen 1/the anime like PokePL.)

-----

Being a Lip supporter is painful.

"Being a Lip supporter is suffering."

 

[N. Onymous]

Prince Sable's just been confirmed an Assist Trophy (sorry, Blue Pikmin). All these retros dropping like flies lately... but what could it mean for our little Lip?

 

[Kapus]

Obscure, Japan only, retro...

I'm having more confidence in Lip appearing as a Retro now.

 

[Bingoshi]

Prepare yourselves everyone. It seems that Sakurai is disconfirming characters on Mondays. First Takamaru, then Prince Sable...I...fear Lip may be next (or Isaac). I hope I'm wrong, I'd love to see her playable, but now I'm a little scared for her. I hope for the best.

EDIT: I may not comment here often, but Lip is my second most wanted retro after Takamaru...

I felt the need to say this so it doesn't seem like I'm just commenting out of nowhere to bring peoples spirits down. When I think about it, since someone as obscure as Prince Sable is an assist trophy in SSB4, this probably means good things for Lip. Lip should at least be an assist trophy as well if nothing more. Though...for someone who has had so many references in the SSB series already, I think it's about time Sakurai just added her as playable already.

 

[Deleted member]

It's retro monday, hehe. Wonder if that'll continue or if it's just a coincidence. Too bad though, would've like seeing him playable. Still awesome to see so many retro characters in 3d.

On the Virtual Console. The copyright issues with Tetris Attack are most likely the reason why we didn't get it on the U VC when Panel de Pon was released there in Japan. Most likely, they're waiting until they've got the N64 service up and running so they can release Pokemon Puzzle League.

That sounds like you're complaining about the VC doing what it is supposed to do then, bring us old games. And by that logic, we also keep getting Balloon Fighter games, just because they're on the VC. Logically speaking, there's no reason for Nintendo to release PdP on the VC in the west when it is, to put it bluntly, the worst version. Tetris Attack added an option menu and, according to Wikipedia, improved the AI. Pokemon Puzzle League improved the AI even more, let you create your own puzzles and added the 3d mode.

The way I head it, the Puzzle Collection sequel was originally planned for the N64, but was canceled for some reason. What was completed at the time was polished up, Pokemon-ified, and released in the international market as Pokemon Puzzle League.

Yes, you've "heard" but spoke like it's fact. That's how rumors are made and false information is being spread. That's the first time I've ever seen that mentioned, there's, as I said, nothing on TCRF or Undeen 64 and Google brings up nothing either.

(That, incidentally, is most likely the reason why Pokemon Puzzle Challenge exists in its final form. It was originally planned as Panel de Pon GB, but when the N64 game was canceled they reskinned it into a Pokemon game to fit - although it's based on Gen 2 instead of Gen 1/the anime like PokePL.)

I know, I said that myself.

Long story short, PdP my look nice, but it's fully understandable why they won't release it as a retro game on the western VC.

 

[Arcadenik]

If I were a hardcore Lip supporter, I'd be worried for her... what does Lip have in common with Takamaru and Prince Sable? They are obscure Japan-only retro characters. I guess Project M could make Lip playable if she has a 3D model if she's an Assist Trophy.

 

[N. Onymous]

The more obscure Japan-only retro characters we get confirmed for Assist Trophy status, the less competition Lip has. This is IMO the best her chances have been since before Lip's Stick was confirmed.

---

That sounds like you're complaining about the VC doing what it is supposed to do then, bring us old games.

I never once complained about not getting PDP. What I brought up was that Nintendo seems to be releasing Pokemon Puzzle League instead of Tetris Attack, Panel de Pon's direct Western equivalent, because trying to wrestle the license back from the Tetris Company would be more trouble than it's worth. (Evidence that it's the name causing trouble: the Game Boy version of Tetris Attack, "Yoshi's PanePon", was released on Japan's Virtual Console, but not ours.)

Yes, you've "heard" but spoke like it's fact. That's how rumors are made and false information is being spread. That's the first time I've ever seen that mentioned, there's, as I said, nothing on TCRF or Undeen 64 and Google brings up nothing either.

I was only reporting what I'd heard. I never claimed that what I was saying was true or that I was some be-all end-all source of Panel de Pon wisdom or something. I can be wrong about things (as I was here).

 

[Grimnir]

The problem with Lip is that she may very well already be disconfirmed by the Lip's stick, and Sakurai thinks it just goes without saying. I really wish he made a comment about the matter in a pic of the day which shows the item. If he considers Lip's stick to be the definitive Lip cameo, then that means hoping for DLC will be a waste of time.

And although I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, it seems to me like things are looking good for the Duck Hunt dog as the retro and/or weird rep.

 

[SmilingMad]

The problem with Lip is that she may very well already be disconfirmed by the Lip's stick, and Sakurai thinks it just goes without saying.

Perhaps surprisingly, despite the fact that he is considered to be a troll, Sakurai doesn't like fake hype. As far as I know, most assist trophies so far have been explicitly deconfirmed. Prince Sable has been deconfirmed through twitter, so that pattern still stands true.
This doesn't say anything about Lip's chances however, seeing as she hasn't been shown yet at all.

 

[Arcadenik]

Didn't Sakurai say he wants to avoid including Japan-only characters as playable characters in SSB4? I thought that Sakurai was beginning to listen to the Western fans instead of ignoring them like he did with Melee and Brawl?

 

[N. Onymous]

IIRC, what he said was he wanted more recognizable characters (hence Pac-Man, Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer, etc.). Of course, there's considerable overlap between Japan-only and obscure...

Lip was ironically more requested in the West this time, I believe.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I don't know what to expect. I think however the worse scenario would be that while all the ATs out there who got in the game are the retro obscurities/underrated, Lip will still stay shafted over while her Stick will just bet the very only item referring to her directly. Basically Lip keeps stay infamously obscure and not letting her have any limelight aside from Captain Rainbow, unlike fellas such as Sable or Takamaru.

Thus, the least I can hope is she gets to appear fully in 3D. Assist Trophy, playable, heck, even a trophy... just as long as she's not left out in the cold for some reason.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I have this weird shaky feeling that Sakurai will disconfirm Lip next Monday now.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I have this weird shaky feeling that Sakurai will disconfirm Lip next Monday now.

Hey, if she gets AT treatment, great for her. Its SOMETHING. I still say Lip is the best pick for a "retro" character being brought back at this point, but if she's an AT, its still better than being represented only through Lip's Stick.

That said, it would be nice to at least get a Panel de Pon stage.

 

[Curious Villager]

I guess if Lip does become an Assist Trophy by any chance, then I guess we could probably at least put the whole Lip's Stick thing to rest....

Would still like to see her playable though...

 

[JaidynReiman]

I guess if Lip does become an Assist Trophy by any chance, then I guess we could probably at least put the whole Lip's Stick thing to rest....

Would still like to see her playable though...

Yeah, agreed. I think she should be playable. But if she's not, I'd like her to at least be an AT.

 

[Rockaphin]

I never played the games, but I would love to see Lip playable. Add me to the supporter list!

 

[Luminario]

Yeah, agreed. I think she should be playable. But if she's not, I'd like her to at least be an AT.

after seeing all these obscure characters get AT status it's the least Lip should get.

 

[Hong]

I still can't find myself holding Lip's Stick as evidence against her inclusion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I never envisioned her wielding it in battle, as it were. Maybe it's just me, but I always felt she would just go bare-handed and work her magic that way. She is such an old character who has scarcely seen any real developer love in decades; I'd imagine a redesign if she were ever made into a playable fighter.

Which is unlikely, but not a probability that I've allowed the Lip's Stick to influence.

 

[SchAlternate]

At the very least, Lip has the advantage of comming from a franchise that has actually been released internationally, and still holds up today.

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't really think the Lip's Stick item is the end all be all for Lip either, after all, we don't just have two Master Sword users, but now also two Falchion users as well (three even if you count Chrom's in Robin's Final Smash). I don't know, but I don't see what would really stop them to give her (or her stick at least) a bit of a make-over really if they where to include her. But I guess that's just me.... :/

Not to mention we can have multiple Lip's Stick's to begin with....

 

[Hong]

Not to mention you can have like literally a dozen Star Rods on screen.

Dark Matter wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[Souldin]

On the one hand, inclusions of Takamaru and Prince Sable suggests that other retro Japanese characters such as Lip will end up as Assist Trophies... which would be a good thing.

On the other hand, competition for a retro spot (which I'm sure there will be) is becoming less and less and Lip currently stands as one of the most likely retro characters to be playable... which would be an amazing thing.

So yeah, overall I'm feeling pretty positive and happy about everything. C'mon Lip, this is your chance to shine... or at least be recognised worldwide in a decent manner.

 

[mistermews]

Well, on the bright side WE are probably the biggest Retro character going now. Which is also the bad side, because it's RETRO DISCONFIRMATION MONDAYS! We are a giant target for our beloved Lip to become an AT, which isn't bad at all. I think it's a good thing? I don't know anymore.

Being a Lip supporter is painful.

All of my "yes" and "I agree".

 

[JaidynReiman]

Well, on the bright side WE are probably the biggest Retro character going now. Which is also the bad side, because it's RETRO DISCONFIRMATION MONDAYS! We are a giant target for our beloved Lip to become an AT, which isn't bad at all. I think it's a good thing? I don't know anymore.



All of my "yes" and "I agree".

Lip being an AT is better than nothing, although I'd rather have her playable obviously.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I can't myself imagine Lip without her stick, it's basically her most iconic thing about her. Unless they can truly recreate her from the ground-up in a way that I'll be fine with Lip's Stick being an "item" from PdP-series, then yeah.

But man, aren't we under HARD pressure now. *garbage block'd*

 

[Hong]

IMO I think seeing these obscure retro characters even being acknowledged is great.

I feel better about Lip not because her "competition" was made into ATs, but the fact they have been acknowledged at all.

 

[Kapus]

IMO I think seeing these obscure retro characters even being acknowledged is great.

I feel better about Lip not because her "competition" was made into ATs, but the fact they have been acknowledged at all.

Completely agree. I was so happy to see Sable as an assist.

I'm much more positive about Lip getting some sort of appearance in the game. Not necessarily playable, but something. I'd be ecstatic if she was just an assist like the others.

 

[smashkirby]

You know what, guys? I'm going to say it right now. I personally think that Lip is the ONE character where I'm so desperate for any physical appearance by her, that I would take any (and I mean ANY) appearance for her, I never thought I'd say this, but I'd even take AT status, or dare I say it, a TROPHY. I just feel if Prince Sable can get AT status, she can get some important role in this game. Heck, she NEEDS it.