Punishing with Pikachu

[Pikabunz]

I don't know if this is known, but it's something I've been doing in the Snake MU. If you didn't know, throws have 8 frames of invincibility at start up, so if you ever grab Snake after he shoots his mortar you can dthrow or fthrow right before the mortar hits you and you will take no damage. This could work with grenades too, but that would be too hard to do.

 

[ElNoNombreHombre]

I think I actually did that last Monday by accident. I did my dthrow a little late and when the thing harmlessly exploded on top of me my opponent and I were a little like "lolwut?"

I figured I clanked the mortar with the dthrow hitbox, but that seems like a good explanation as well. I need to get the replay from the person's wii, since it wasn't mine.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I love you Prime.

All Homo.

Brony <3

 

[Ussi]

I don't know if this is known, but it's something I've been doing in the Snake MU. If you didn't know, throws have 8 frames of invincibility at start up, so if you ever grab Snake after he shoots his mortar you can dthrow or fthrow right before the mortar hits you and you will take no damage. This could work with grenades too, but that would be too hard to do.

This will be great for doubles if the one bein thrown is not invincible as well

 

[*Cam*]

What about Diddy dtilt on block?

 

[Voltz]

This is assuming we shield it, right?



No, ESAM is definitely the number 1 Pikachu in the world now.

I guess that makes sense... Anther hasn't played in a while.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I also outplaced him severely at the only tournament we were both at: MLG Columbus.

Anyway...I'm not sure if you can punish D-tilt on block. Maybe jab?

 

[THuGz]

Dash upsmash and dash grab aren't that much different since they both come out on frame 9. At low percents you want to go for a grab and at kill percents you upsmash. I normally don't try to punish the backswing cause of how little time you have to react to it.

Why can we run up-smash certain chars out of f-throw guaranteed at certain percents but we can't dash grab if they are both 9 frames? (like marth at 0)

 

[*Cam*]

Why can we run up-smash certain chars out of f-throw guaranteed at certain percents but we can't dash grab if they are both 9 frames? (like marth at 0)

It probably has something to do with the range of the moves.

 

[Voltz]

I also outplaced him severely at the only tournament we were both at: MLG Columbus.

Anyway...I'm not sure if you can punish D-tilt on block. Maybe jab?

well, it was comforting that there was someone like anther who was the best pikachu in my area... then again he's no longer the best. plus it's no longer my area since I'm moving :/

 

[Voltz]

Well, there is a lag after MK uses F-tilt, which if you dodge it there is time to chain-grab.

 

[Nordal]

A well spaced forward tilt becomes a guessing game (assuming they don't complete it). I think if you're fast enough when he's doing it slowly you can drop shield-> f tilt. Otherwise I spotdodge some of it and up/d smash/f tilt or grab or w/e.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pikachu's grab range is significantly worse than his U-smash range. We would have to run for an extra 9-10 frames before we could start our grab, distance wise, but that is too much.

 

[Pikabunz]

Is dash grab's ranged warrented to be used over dash shield grab? Cause dash shield grab is faster otherwise.. :x (low traction main so dash grab is useless to me)

Dash shield grab is much slower.

This will be great for doubles if the one bein thrown is not invincible as well

It's not as good as you'd think. There's still hitlag when you're hit during the invincibility, so an attack's hitbox can linger till your invincibility wears off. This works on mortars because their hitbox doesn't last long and they have no hitlag.

What about Diddy dtilt on block?

You only get a 5 frame advantage on block, but you can probably still get him with a dash grab if he tries to grab or dtilt again right after. You gotta react fast though.

 

[Ussi]

How is dash shield grab slower? Should take at most 8 frames... (dash frames + 1 shield frame + 6 grab frames yeh?)


Pika's dash grab is 9 frames? Okay nvm ._> 1 frame isn't worth the extra work.

 

[PZ]

Pikachu has good grabs...he doesnt need to not use any of them in certain situations.
While characters that have slower types of grab might have other options but may not use that certain of grab unless theres more range or something like that.
Pikachu crappy range but his grabs are pretty well rounded or his standing grab is fast.

 

[Pikabunz]

How is dash shield grab slower? Should take at most 8 frames... (dash frames + 1 shield frame + 6 grab frames yeh?)


Pika's dash grab is 9 frames? Okay nvm ._> 1 frame isn't worth the extra work.

Pika's dash last 13 frames, so you can't shield until frame 14.

 

[Tagxy]

That contradicts this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPVB4-NLlsQ

Unless you mean directly from the dash animation.

 

[Pikabunz]

That video kinda supported what I said.

 

[Tagxy]

Do you mean from a dash or while running?

 

[Pikabunz]

I said dash in my post. Why would I mean running? We're talking about the fastest punish after shielding, so you would have to dash first to do that. >>

 

[Ussi]

Oh right.. But does dash grab have to wait till the dash frames are over?

 

[Pikabunz]

Nope, you can do your dash grab at anytime.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Dash grab at anytime
Shield cancelled blah blah after your RUN starts, which is AFTER YOUR DASH, which is 14 frames.

Dash grab = 1-13 + 9 = 10-22
Shield blah blah = 14+ + 1 + 6 = 21+

Dash grab will be better in almost every circumstance.

 

[Captain L]

the only time it would be an advantage is if you were pushed far enough away that you actually had to enter your running animation, and yet somehow still had time to punish

Although at least if you whiff a standing grab you're less likely to get punished

 

[linkisthebest123]

Lucario's f smash is punished by a f tilt really well. Down tilt works too. Its also really easy to power shield. It has quite a bit of startup, so if you have any reaction, you'll get it easy. Peach's fair is weird. She can auto cancel it into anything. Depending on her shield, I'll either oos d smash or roll away.