Punishing Falco's Full Jab in dittos.

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have no idea if this is known already, but falco can **** his own full jab combo.

Me and kismet tested it out a bit in falco dittos and afterwards on wifi to see if it works. It worked there, and it will probably work even better offline. This is what I did, and maybe kismet can add more to this if he so chooses.

As soon as you get caught in the full jab and you see it, hold the control stick up and towards your opponent. After that, mash the c-stick away from your opponent.

This causes you to DI out of falco's full jab by going up, while you are still going towards the other falco. By mashing the c-stick away from falco, you cause Bair to come out as soon as possible. And it will hit the other falco even if they retract the AAA because they are still in enough lag they cannot avoid it.

A couple of problems though. If you Bair the other falco at low percents, it is not strong enough to knock them back far enough. I would say try to punish the full jab if the other falco is at 30% or above. The same for you. At the tip of the AAA and low percents, it's very difficult to DI up and towards. You'll get ***** by another AAA or a grab if you keep trying to DI by the time it's done.

Kismet told me that if you DI down and towards is the best way to SDI through falco.

Edit: Make sure you are DIing with the control stick first or else you start SDIing with the mashing of the c-stick.

 

[pulse131]

interesting concept but im thinkin if your opponent can read you well enough then he'll punish your bair and grab yuh, and in falco dittos thats not what you want at low percents.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Yeah Falco can PS Marth UpBing out of Jab i dought falco's bair is better then that.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Funny it takes two days for someone to reply to this.

interesting concept but im thinkin if your opponent can read you well enough then he'll punish your bair and grab yuh, and in falco dittos thats not what you want at low percents.

That's why I said to avoid doing this at low percents. It's difficult to DI for one, and Bair does not have enough knockback at those low percents anyway. So yes, they will punish once they get hit. However, once you are at higher percents, knockback is too much for the other falco to handle and you auto-cancel the Bair anyway.

Besides, Falco cannot punish you by simply finishing the attack early. He takes too much lag when he finishes. By DIing up and towards, you will keep moving towards him the moment the attacks stops. So no matter what, Bair > AAA.

Edit: About the powershielding, that would be the only possible way to punish this it seems. However, from what I did and what kismet did on wifi, even if I held shield the moment I finished AAA, it seemed to always hit. It needs testing offline for sure, but it seems promising enough to warrant trying it out first.

 

[swordsaint]

maybe you guys are a little behind, but if you DI good enough and attack you can punish Falcos full jab whether he stops it asap or not

so saying he can PS marths up b is ******** if marths doing it correctly.

 

[Denzi]

so saying he can PS marths up b is ******** if marths doing it correctly.

He can't even PS Marth's Fair iirc.

 

[dainbramage]

Marth's fair is faster than his up B...

 

[Denzi]

Marth's fair is faster than his up B...

Oh. But the upB has invincibility frames on startup. Doesn't that mean he can use it faster than Fair?

 

[swordsaint]

marths fair being faster than upB doesnt sound right.

 

[Denzi]

marths fair being faster than upB doesnt sound right.

Exactly .

 

[dainbramage]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204825

It's only one frame difference, but hey.

 

[swordsaint]

you've made an obvious mistake here

we wont be getting hit by the frame 4 fair. we'll be getting hit by frame 8 because of the positioning.

whereas the up b will hit on frame 5

 

[Tommy_G]

You can also DI completely through him and Dsmash him.

Marth can Fair or UpB. They both work if they DI fast enough.
ZSS can Uair Falco for it.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Well I've def had success PSing Marth's UpB out of full jab, perhaps if the opponent anticipated the full jab and sdi it as it comes out then I can see they can guarantee the hit. But otherwise falco should be able to PS.

 

[Tommy_G]

Well I've def had success PSing Marth's UpB out of full jab, perhaps if the opponent anticipated the full jab and sdi it as it comes out then I can see they can guarantee the hit. But otherwise falco should be able to PS.

It depends on how fast they DI it.
If they DI faster than the jab being over, then they hit you. There is no if this or that.