Project M Social Thread

[warpd]

I was thinking the puffball dash or maybe the OMGSUPANINJA!PANCAKE!DASH, but your idea is very tasty.

 

[ds22]

Every time I see a video with the new physics my brain freaks out on me. Looks like Brawl, moves like melee, Does Not Compute.

It gives a feeling that dividing by zero has finally succeeded.

 

[GP&B]

Now someone needs to make a motivational poster about division by zero succeeding while relating it to a picture of awesome.

 

[Crispy4001]

I guess I should have used the word "tweaking" instead of "balancing". Like how Kirby and Pikachu were given moves from 64, i'm curious if anything similar is being done to other Melee characters, or what kind of ideas are being brainstormed.

Man, I'd LOVE for Pikachu to have his 64 back-air back. Screw the twirl.

 

[GP&B]

I thought they originally gave him the 64 Bair and even the 64 Nair although SB's video says otherwise (about the Nair at least).

Also, does anyone know if somebody is working on a Melee/OoT Link vertex hack? If there is, I hope he won't have the same conflict as Ganondorf's vertex hack and can be optional.

 

[Crispy4001]

I haven't seem P:M vids of Pikachu before SB's video, so I don't know what move set changes he got. Maybe someone already mentioned it in this thread.

 

[JCaesar]

Is there anything happening to make kirby stone more usefull? I always found that move pretty dumb but it could be more usefull if tweaked right . Crazy Idea: Imagine if it was more like fox's shine that you can wavedash out of XD.

If we leave it at its Brawl stats (and I'm guessing we will) then it is already pretty useful. Giving it a jump cancel would make it crazy broken.

Man, I'd LOVE for Pikachu to have his 64 back-air back. Screw the twirl.

Already done.

Also, does anyone know if somebody is working on a Melee/OoT Link vertex hack? If there is, I hope he won't have the same conflict as Ganondorf's vertex hack and can be optional.

Vertex hacks really can't be optional. Even if they change gameplay only slightly, they would have to be banned from tournaments. Textures hacks are fine though since they don't affect gameplay.

 

[Crispy4001]

Already done.

And that just made my day.

 

[Revven]

Like Kirby's Nair though it's also not 100% completed, so when you see it for the first time (hopefully) it should be tweaked to perfection.

 

[iLink]

I had no idea pika was getting his N64 bair, that's ****.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it possible to missile cancel Samus's homing missiles?

If not, is that being considered?

 

[Plum]

Here's another good visual: imagine Lovage's Berserker, but every time he tries to waveland on a platform, he misses and diagonal airdodges normally if it was all under Brawl's landing detection. You can actually see it occur in some PM videos; players who are usually pretty confident in their platform waveland may often screw up if they were used to the visual cue the knees usually gave in Melee.

Oh yeah, speaking of SHL: isn't that the same issue behind true missile canceling for Samus?

Something kind of silly that happens to me when I play PM with landing detection.
Because the only character I really play in Melee is G&W I am used to his waveland timing from Melee and mess it up pretty often just like you said; I wavedash right as G&W's knees/shins go through the platform and end up airdodging diagonally down to the ground instead of the platform.

However when I play Snake or Wolf in PM I can waveland perfectly fine just because my mind isn't used to looking for their shins to waveland. Now once we finally get a working landing detection code up and running (hooooope) I'll probably be messing up the optimal waveland timing with them because I'll be used to watching for their feet.

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

Now once we finally get a working landing detection code up and running (hooooope)

It's gotta be there somewhere. Whatever happened to that progress somebody made on it?

 

[GP&B]

Vertex hacks really can't be optional. Even if they change gameplay only slightly, they would have to be banned from tournaments. Textures hacks are fine though since they don't affect gameplay.

I gave it some thought and now I understand. Even if there were some exceptions, the issue would revolve around whether it's too much or perfectly fine (as far as visually distorting where hitboxes and hurtboxes are). I suppose the only real way to settle it would be by vote and even that option seems really unfavorable. I really like mah Melee/OoT Link and Ganondorf and I know there are people who really like their Melee spacies.

 

[GameWatching]

just fixing now !

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I gave it some thought and now I understand. Even if there were some exceptions, the issue would revolve around whether it's too much or perfectly fine (as far as visually distorting where hitboxes and hurtboxes are). I suppose the only real way to settle it would be by vote and even that option seems really unfavorable. I really like mah Melee/OoT Link and Ganondorf and I know there are people who really like their Melee spacies.

Personally, I would like to see Melee vertex hacks as a part of this; perhaps they could be a separate package?

 

[GP&B]

JC makes it sound like (unless I misunderstood) we'd either require them or ban them and even if we require them, it has to be the same base vertex hacked model (so Melee Ganondorf on all slots, per se). Honestly, as long as it doesn't deform the bounding areas for the hurt boxes and hit boxes (ie. make Marth's sword extremely long or shrink Link down), it should be acceptable given there are more specific guidelines for them.

Besides Melee vertex hacks, I may want to use hatless Toon Link and hatless Link D:

 

[Wind Owl]

What is the point of Project M if we even want Melee models? From the 90's.

I mean, come on, now. There has to be a limit.

 

[Strong Badam]

Melee came out in 2001...........

 

[Wind Owl]

...

Silence!

 

[Juushichi]

2001 is the 1990's yo.

Trolling aside, I'm not a huge Melee player (sort of a fan) and I play Brawl competitively (lol)... but I am a huge fan of what you guys are doing here. I'm excited to play this game for myself too when it drops, maybe play it competitive as well. You guys are doing amazing things, keep up the good work!

 

[GP&B]

Some of it isn't necessarily having Melee models, but that some characters may have had major visuals changes that weren't largely preferred like the spacies (actually, Fox is the only major offender) and Ganondorf. I think most people are largely content with most of the models otherwise.

My preference for OoT/Melee Link mostly comes from my dislike for TP so that's another story. What I'm saying is that there could be some fair guidelines that would allow certain vertex hacks in.

 

[Strong Badam]

i don't mind brawl ganon

i do mind brawl fox.
i do mind lucario. he needs to be vertex hacked into a mewtwo-like character.

otherwise, i don't mind any of the models in brawl.

 

[GP&B]

I think the conflict over Brawl Ganondorf partly deals with the physique not really complimenting the physics (in PM physics, I mean). This would even explain some changes to a few of his animations.

Brawl Fox is just so ugly though.

 

[NO@H]

i don't mind brawl ganon

i do mind brawl fox.
i do mind lucario. he needs to be vertex hacked into a mewtwo-like character.

otherwise, i don't mind any of the models in brawl.

thats been done son

 

[stingers]

brawl ganon just stands so upright all the time. thats it really...

 

[GP&B]

I was hoping JC would've at least been around to respond to my posts about the legality and restrictions of vertex hacks :C

I kind of want to hear a little more on the issue for some insight I guess.
(and you know you want to play Master Chief Falcon)

 

[JCaesar]

I'm still here. What else is there to say?

If there is anything that changes gameplay (hitboxes/hurtboxes) even a little bit, it absolutely must be standardized. Any other purely cosmetic changes are free to be optional. It's that simple, at least to me.

Whether we end up using vertex hacks or not is irrelevant.

 

[hotdogturtle]

He already explained it. Any hack that modifies hitboxes or hurtboxes in any way at all won't be allowed. Anything that doesn't change anything can be optional.

And there he is explaining it again right before my post >_>

 

[[TSON]]

Vertexes don't mess with hitboxes or hurtboxes.

 

[GP&B]

EDIT: Drat, I knew I forgot some tidbit about that! The point I was trying to make is that if you modify some piece that is usually part of a hitbox (like a sword), it would be deceptive because it's not where the hitbox is. You'd have to move the hitbox.

Feeling stupid for arguing without remembering this.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Vertexes don't mess with hitboxes or hurtboxes.

It could still affect visual cues (Marth's sword being longer than it's supposed to be. A character being wider than their supposed to be, ect, ect).

 

[GP&B]

Yeah, that was more or less what I was going for. As long as the vertex hack doesn't tamper with essentials, it should be mostly fine.

 

[JCaesar]

Vertexes don't mess with hitboxes or hurtboxes.

So the senile Brawl Ganon and the hunchback Melee Ganon have the exact same hitboxes and hurtboxes?

 

[GP&B]

The hitboxes and hurtboxes can only be modified through PSA (I think hurtboxes can only be resized proportionally); I remembered now.

 

[libertyernie]

Dang it. Forgot that it doesn't go to the newest post right away.

 

[hotdogturtle]

I'm pretty sure that hitboxes/hurtboxes could be messed up with very large vertex hacks that drastically change the size of important body parts or something like that. But minor things like modifying a character's hair or changing the shape of their head shouldn't be enough to throw anything off. I'm almost positive that the Melee Ganondorf hack doesn't affect anything from regular Ganondorf (by that I mean that I haven't extensively tested every tiny thing about it, but we would have heard reports of it by now if it messed up anything).

You could try saving a replay with Brawl Ganondorf and adding the Melee hack while watching the replay. If it doesn't desynch, then the hit/hurtboxes aren't changed. (Again, I'm pretty sure that people have already done this and nothing happened. Some official PM-quality testing wouldn't hurt though.)

 

[JCaesar]

I thought they were attached to bones, which are moved around when you vertex hack.

Then again I know nothing about vertex hacking. My original point stands, but if vertex hacks don't actually change anything, then I guess there's no problem.

 

[stingers]

vertex hacks still change the appearances of where the hurtboxes are. they just throw you off in general. i don't really support it...

 

[GP&B]

I thought they were attached to bones, which are moved around when you vertex hack.

Then again I know nothing about vertex hacking. My original point stands, but if vertex hacks don't actually change anything, then I guess there's no problem.

Hitboxes and hurtboxes are indeed attached to the bones, but (from my memory) vertex hacks usually only modify the polygons and not the bones themselves.

vertex hacks still change the appearances of where the hurtboxes are. they just throw you off in general. i don't really support it...

Not necessarily. It's on a case-by-case basis. Like said before, it's an issue if the character's size is drastically changed or a piece used with hitboxes is greatly changed (making Mario's fists huge or Ike's sword wide and/or long).

For example, this vertex hack of Link might be acceptable

But this one probably would not.